Parenting without anger. Tips from Psychologist, Renee Mill

Do you dream of happy and cooperative children, who do what you ask without you needing to yell? Parenting without anger is something most of us probably aspire to, but the reality is that situations can sometimes escalate before we can calm down. In this interview, senior clinical psychologist Renée Mill shares invaluable tips to help parents manager their anger.

Do everyday activities like getting dressed, eating breakfast, brushing teeth, doing homework or getting off the gaming console turn your home into a hotbed of anger, yelling and daily punishments?

You’re not alone. Many parents are more stressed, tired and angry with our children than ever before.

In this episode of The Parenting Couch podcast, bestselling author and senior clinical psychologist Renée Mill shares practical and easy-to-apply solutions that will help you manage your own anger, so you can successfully implement techniques that will create the contented home and happy, cooperative family that you desire. 

• why do we get angry with our kids?
• what can we do if we feel ourselves getting angry?
• why doesn’t yelling work?
• what other strategies can parents use to get children to do what we ask?

About Renée Mill

Renée Mill is a senior clinical psychologist, author, and corporate speaker who is passionate about helping people overcome anxiety and stress. With over 20 years of experience, she has become a leading expert in the field of mental health and emotional intelligence.

Renée’s mission is to empower people emotionally, in their relationships, and at work. She has developed effective courses that are practical and change people’s lives for the better. Her pioneering program for the treatment of anxiety has helped countless individuals overcome their fears and live a more fulfilling life. Renée is also a corporate speaker and has worked with individuals and groups in organisations to promote workplace wellness and stress management.

Renée is the author of three best-selling books, including Anxiety Free, Drug Free, Parenting Without Anger, and No Sweat Parenting. Her work has been featured on various media outlets, including the Today Show, Sunrise, and The Morning Show.

Essential Details: Anxiety Solutions CBT

• Website: Anxiety Solutions CBT
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Transcript

Speaker 1  0:01  
Welcome to The Parenting Couch with Rachael Chappell and Sarah Levett honest conversations about what parenting is really like. Because let's be real, it can be hard, proudly brought to you by Northshoremums.com.au

Speaker 2  0:18  
Hello and welcome to another episode of the parenting couch Podcast. I'm Sarah Levett

Speaker 1  0:24  
And I'm Rachel Chappell. And I'm delighted to introduce you to today's guest on the parenting couch, Renee mill. She's worked as a clinical psychologist for over 30 years. And she specializes in anxiety, depression, and parenting. She is also a best-selling author. She's written books called Anxiety free drug free, no sweat parenting. And the one that we're talking a little bit more about today is parenting without anger. I think this is probably one that many parents can relate to. We have this dream of being able to parent without anger. But it's not always possible. No matter how hard we might try. We often see posts in our Facebook group from mums, who are wracked with guilt because they've lost it or they've yelled at the kids. And they don't want to feel guilty. They just don't know how to control their behavior. So, Renee, we're really thrilled to have you on the parenting couch podcast today. Welcome.

Unknown Speaker  1:26  
Thank you very much for having me. 

Speaker 1  1:29  
It's our pleasure. So Renee, how is anger so destructive?

Speaker 3  1:34  
When patients asked me those kinds of questions, I always think about it because one has to deliver answers like this. I don't want to make anyone feel guilty or bad so can I answer it this way? Yeah, it is very common to yell. And it's very common for people to be human, not chronically as seldom as possible. And if I'm every now and then I don't think it's destructive. It's chronic yelling that's destructive. It's unpredictable yelling, which sounds funny, but this is often related, say, for example, to alcohol or stress, right child doesn't know when one's going to lose it, if you're going to lose it at the cup on the counter today or not. So there's something about the unpredictability that increases anxiety. And also not that this is a pass to yell, but also you know, sometimes you can lose it about the mess, which is very different to attacking the child in general, one should aim not to, but its probably a lifetime work. But occasionally yelling about the mess on the floor is probably okay. Yeah,

Speaker 2  2:40  
I mean, I think that one's a really interesting one, the mess one because I don't know, my feeling is and I set out to  parent, my goal was to obviously not use physical violence in hitting anyway. And I wasn't hit growing up, which I'm grateful for. But I also didn't want to yell I didn't want and I have don't get me wrong. Of course, I have. I do try and come back and apologize if I do. I'm not saying that. That makes it okay, but at least taking responsibility, then, you know, for the behavior. And I think the mess was really interesting because that'd be a daily one for people. And I feel like, it's so much about, correct me if I'm wrong, I feel like it's about their childhood. And that's what they got in trouble for. And so the trigger for them, like, I watched my daughter's dad, you know, if milk got spilled or something, he would panic, because if I was gonna get angry with him, you know that that's you and your mum's business right there. I worked really hard with a mess, one because I knew that they were just accidents. And I would say to my daughter when she was little, especially, it's alright, it was just an accident you mean to do that. But he'd, panic. And I was watching that. And I think that's, there are those triggers that we carry. So I guess what I'm trying to ask in that is, how important is it then to really do the work on yourself to nip the yelling in the bud, so to speak, you know what I mean, and understanding those things because is that where they come from?

Speaker 3  4:05  
Absolutely. One has to always work on oneself. And often our children are our best teachers. So often parts of ourselves only come out when we have our kids and we didn't realize that with the stressors. But I do want to say that often it's not as deep as that sometimes it is a trigger something from our past, but sometimes it's just we living in very stressful times. And we don't know how to manage our stress. So we used to say the old days, you know, in their stereotypical dad went to work, he came home stressed, he'd reality, his wife, his wife would yell at the child, the child would kick the dog. And that was the idea of releasing stress. And it wasn't necessarily so often people come home, and it's a stress release, and it may or may not be related to their childhood. So I don't want people to feel well I never grew up with that and therefore, we are very stressed. So we need to learn to emotionally regulate so that we're not taking our stress out on the people we love so much. And we also the second part of anger, which is in my book is the two parts. So the first book I wrote was actually called you can't push my buttons. And it was very focused on parents understanding that when, because I often have parents will say to me, my child knows exactly how to push my buttons, they know how to unlock the mess. And if they love me, or respected me, or whatever, they would clean up. And so the first part was all about No, it's you, right. So it's, as you say, it's my triggers, or my stress. And we need to learn to manage our anger, but then the second part of my book, so when I then rewrote it added in a whole double sub second section, we also yell, because we don't know what else to do. We don't know how to get our children to clean the mess, or make their bed or do their work or brush their teeth. And so out of lack of knowledge, we then go screaming will get me what I want is a myth. People often tell me, the only thing that works is when I scream, there are lots of reasons why people get angry. And so my whole second part of my book is all about strategies of actually, okay, here are tools instead of yelling, first, emotionally regulate, but this will also get you the solution you want.

Speaker 1  6:18  
One of the things that really strikes a chord with me is in our household, you know, can you please get off the computer? Or can you please do your teeth? Now? I've asked nicely. I've asked the first time I've asked the second time, they're not listening. And then you do get to the point after three or four times. Can you do your teeth? And it's like, and I'm like, well, it's your fault? Because you didn't listen to me the first time, you know, I've said being calm, being calm. But so what strategies can we use to not get to that point? I mean, the same pattern over and over again. And it's tricky.

Speaker 3  6:53  
It is. So one of the things with parenting is, for most of us, we do what are called crisis management parenting, we have our children. And we've never really as people will tell me, there's no manual they haven't studied. And so when something goes wrong, I've been like brushing their teeth, we don't know what to do. And then as you say, we ask nicely, we expect them to be cooperative hours, they're adults who know who will risk. We don't think of them as individuating children who will push back, we don't know how to deal with it. And so we yell, and sometimes they listen, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes it escalates depending on the child's personality because you also have personality. So I'd love to talk about proactive parenting. And this is a whole topic of its own, but just to in very brief. So when I run my parenting courses, it's all about, you know, thinking a week ahead, what are the what are the behaviors you want to change? If you do have a partner together? What are you going to focus on, and then there are so many different strategies, you know, sometimes it's literally just finding a fun way. So to get young kids to pack up, do what they do a preschool, sing a song and pack up with them have a plan, at the end of every day, we think pack up, pack up and just watch what the preschool teachers do. And just do what they do, you know, if you yell, so that will be one way with older children, teenage children, we use metaphors called collaborative problem solving. They're all different things one does, but it's about thinking about your parenting, strategizing, what behaviors you want to work on finding with your child's personality, what's going to work best for them. And then with proactive parenting, it's takes a little bit longer call it the longer shorter way to actually get the behaviors.

Speaker 2  8:46  
I mean, I always said that along the way. It's like when you decide to do it that way. It is and I had a lot of people questioning some of the things that I was doing, you know, and sticking to your guns, and  I want to do it this way. And I just want to go back though, Renee, I think it's interesting, you know, and Rachel saying, you know, people talk about there being no manual, but actually, what we have different to the generations in the past is access to a lot of very helpful information. And I do say this a lot and I will have said it on this podcast, people go and study law, they will spend eight, nine years studying they go and have a child and they read nothing about it. The problem with that I find that is I read and I read and I read all the books all the books, you know all the ones that are motion coaching and you know wiring of the mind as she was growing up, but you get in those moments and you forget so even when you do have strategies and things like you say become it then about stress so you've got to get somewhere so you got to get them out of the park. You've got to do this you got to get there you know things are going on. When I went through my separation. I was up in my head for years in anxiety, despite trying all the tools needed. Selection everything. And so then you you then forget, you're just like you say you go to that default. And so I guess there's two different things isn't there? There's, like, there's what working with parents to parents. But then there's also that working, or like we talked about before on yourself. And so then what are some of the things that parents can be doing to help with the stress? Because that's what you're saying. It's emotional regulation and stress of parents, it's causing so much of the problem and not being able

Speaker 3  10:32  
to patient. And this is why I used to think that the two avenues I've taken actually and where my interests are, were different. But so I'll just give you when I first started doing parenting or when I give a talk, there's always one parent who will say to me, How do I stop my child from jumping on the bed? How do I make my child do brush their teeth? And how the other No, I don't know who you are, I don't know your personality or your child's personality. And and if your house is chaotic, I don't know if there is a partner around that you working to, there's a whole lot of issues, one needs to understand why the child's behavior like that. So it's not about fixing the child. And often, even to this day, parents will drop off a child for therapy and say, fix the child. Nothing at home has to change. Why would you fixing the child's behavior. So what you're bringing, you know, what you're highlighting here is very important. As parents, we bring ourselves to our homes, to our relationships, and we have to work on ourselves. And one of the key things, and this is what CBT has taught is the way we think, influences really everything influences our emotions, our stress. So my first book on nursery parenting is about debunking six myths, that are myths that we have that my child's got to be perfect. Or if I'm firm with my child, I'm going to crush their self esteem. So when you change whatever myths you're carrying around, my child has to listen straight away, or if they don't brush their teeth, we all this comes from our childhood, little things that we expect. But actually first thinking about parenting differently, we have to understand how what we bring in working on our thoughts is a big one. I mentioned one earlier, one big part of anger is we interpret if the child leaves a mess on the floor. They don't respect us. So we personalizing it, actually kids are messy. But if 20% of kids are tidy, we lucky kids are messy. Teenagers leave laundry on the floor, 90% of teenagers are doing their. So when you go you don't respect me, this is my house, you know, I don't want the laundry, they were getting angry, because we think it's a personal attack when we go or teenagers are messy. Now, we just aren't a solution. It takes these are the kinds of things what are our myths that we bringing? What are the thoughts that we're having about the behaviors and so on. And that's the core of changing the anger, managing the stress,

Speaker 1  13:06  
it is such a complex thing. I mean, as you said, You've written several books about it. So it's hard, it's so hard to you know, really get dive in deeply, because there's just so many facets to it. And I think, you know, one of you know, obviously you talk about is it the way you've parented? Or is it just the individual situation that's triggered you what what can we do in that moment, if we feel like something has happened, and it's really, you can feel yourself, you know, getting angry? What can we do in that moment to, I guess, calm the situation or not react in an angry way? Because I think it's quite difficult to do that, isn't it when you can kind of feel yourself going Oh, and you can get work more and more worked up? It's almost like a volcano, you know? What can we do in that moment to just calm ourselves.

Speaker 3  14:04  
So again, the in the moment they are different strategies and for people who have had their own work on stress, they'll have ones they were could be breathing, could be actually whispering as good one as a parent when you find yourself shouting start to whisper. We call it an outside in approach. Another very good technique is imagine someone that you respect is in the room. So I often have patients who say to me I imagine you're in the room and I know you wouldn't like me to see you think about yourself. If you shouting at your child and your neighbor knocks on the door you are alone them to see that horrible. Imagining someone you respect is in the room is something that will calm you down

Speaker 1  14:56  
or that someone's at the front door about to knock on the door. and you're like, Okay, I wouldn't want them to see me like this.

Unknown Speaker  15:04  
So those are easy things. One.

Speaker 2  15:06  
Yeah, one of the things I find, too, that was helpful. And again, you know, you'll know whether this is or not, is setting expectations. I work in childcare as well. And so, you know, we're always talking about, you know, the agreements and setting the expectations ahead of time, especially when they're little I mean, I remember reading that you should do it from when they're trying to get away me. So I tell them when I was changing a nappy, and when I was doing this, and when I was doing that, I mean, of course, now she has to know everything that's going on ahead of time, because I've set that up as a, as a thing that we do. You know, I mean, it helps with anxiety, too. And, you know, I mean, obviously, you've got to find a balance. But, you know, is that is that a good thing to you know, like, because I think you what happens to children is they don't have warnings, so there's sudden, they're in an environment, they're on a computer, well, they're doing something and you suddenly rip them away from that. And instead of the time, the time leading up, listen, you know, you know, now we've got to go. So you can watch your computer now, but then, you know, I need you to be cooperative at the time that we need to go. I'm not saying that's going to work every time. It certainly hasn't been made worked every time as I get older, it gets easier, of course. And then as I get older, again, it gets hotter again, for a while as teenagers, I know that so but is that something that is, you know, helpful? Do you think, would you absolutely parents,

Speaker 3  16:24  
and so often we have our agendas, and our kids don't even know about them? Yeah, you gotta be leaving at four o'clock to go to Cole's or we're going to be so explaining your expectations is a huge one. Absolutely. And planning properly. And also, so what you want to work with, is each of these are topics of their own. But a big part of parenting is we become policemen, you know, now go week, take responsibility, get up, do your homework, get in the car, I have a whole talk on self esteem, where it's more about what we based on desses work of self determination. So you want to start it, this is all proactive parenting, right? You want to start from a young age, teaching your children to be self determined. So from a young age, they can have an alarm and set their alarm, and then they need to wake themselves up. And all of these have, you need to again, the longer shorter way, practice it many times it never happens is a one sort of. But then sir, as if you've been doing that, when they are teenagers, you might say, you need to be ready at this time, you can set your alarm or whatever works for you. But I'll be leaving at this time. But you have been working with self determination. Because once we get into being the policeman, children don't take any responsibility, even teenagers, they're waiting for you to keep reminding them. So all of these are topics in themselves of overall, helpful as you say, there are manuals out there, there's so much information of how to gain cooperation from your children without anger.

Speaker 2  17:58  
Yeah, because I also I remember writing at some point about criticism as well, and the effect on self esteem that that has, and also allowing space for children to step in, to do the things that you've asked when you're constantly writing and they don't have opportunity to then actually follow through on it because you're one step ahead of them never giving them the chance to do that. Is that true about that? You know, the the constant because I feel like with manners, you know, I felt like I read somewhere to model manners and not actually be like say thank you say please say thank you, thank you, thank you like all of that, because it then ends up impacting them in the long run with their self esteem and not feeling like they have capacity to do anything for themselves. Like you're talking about the self determination is that the case

Speaker 3  18:44  
100% A big part of self determination is what we call mastery. So, again, from a young age, the more you allow children to do things, they will be more willing to do things it's not you telling them and they as I said earlier, part of development is children push against their parents they're becoming their own person we call it soccer dependence, Independence conflict. It's a fantastic book about teenagers in it says the title of the book is get out of my life but first take Alex and me to the mall. And I don't want you don't tell me what to do but please give me some money. Yeah, this is conflict but when you encourage them to have more mastery is less time to push against so for example, if you having people for dinner, and even from two year olds, they can help lay the table they can bring the napkins they can help sweet they love to sweep at that age, you know,

Speaker 2  19:48  
they will love to sweep at my door and I love the vacuums that are perfect now but then it's funny about the push pull because my daughter is 10. And so she's in between you know what I mean? She literally hugs. She's just sort of, she literally hugs me she's actually home because she's homesick. But she hugs me. And then she pushes me. And I go, Oh my God, that's it right there. Finally. And I know what it needs. I don't get upset. You know what I mean? But I'm like, Oh, my God, it's like, happening right there. So

Unknown Speaker  20:25  
finally, finally,

Speaker 2  20:27  
I tried to laugh, or is it I just got, oh, Phil Johnson. But personally, that's what you were saying. very hurtful can be Yeah, absolutely appropriate.

Speaker 3  20:41  
So you want to avoid as much of that as possible, by giving them opportunities to do it their way. Yeah, and the more they can express themselves, the less they need to push, there will always be some area they'll push against. Because they have to individuate they're not you. But the less you are taking control and telling them what to do, the more and the more they, the more they will step up. And that's a big chapter in my book, the more you build self esteem through these things, mastery, autonomy, and connectedness to others, which is what self determination theory is. People behave better when they feel better about themselves.

Speaker 1  21:18  
Yeah. And you're living in a more peaceful house as well, aren't you like it's you know, there's, there's less of that rage, less of that anger, all we want is to have wonderful relationships with our kids, we do need to exert our power, sometimes, obviously, to potentially get the results that we need. But if they love you, and if they're listening to you, and they're not feeling like you're the policeman, then you're more likely to get results, and you're all going to be happier. That's the way it works.

Speaker 2  21:49  
Yeah, that's, and it's funny with the boundaries. One, I was actually talking to someone at the childcare job yesterday about it took me a really long time in that role to feel okay, because with other people's children, obviously is different than your own. We've been firm with them, you know, I wanted them to like me, so and that was a bit more approval seeking, I've done more work on myself to try and help with that, and better with boundaries in general. But as it is lifelong work, I believe. But that one was, you know, like, it took me a long time. And then I just I don't know whether this switch went whatever it was, I was like, Oh, my God, of course, the more boundaries I've put in place, and the firmer I am with them. And the expectations actually, the more they do like me, you know what I mean, Butler as I was going from the angle of I have to let them be, you know, do whatever they want, because then they're like, the kids at work. And then I realized, no, of course, there's going to be that better relationship when they know and feel like they can trust me to it wiser stronger, firmer, kind, whatever that say is about, you know, again, they know that you're the person that that will set the limits

Unknown Speaker  22:52  
for them. firm but fair, yeah.

Unknown Speaker  22:55  
But you know, I used to come at from a different angle. You can have whatever you want, just like me. Doesn't work. Didn't work. For Kids. Yeah,

Speaker 3  23:07  
that fits into what he was saying when I was saying earlier about if you angry consistently or not. So firm boundaries, make children feel safe. They know exactly what's expected of them. And we do live in a world now where there's so much stress and anxiety. So inconsistency. We think we've been great today, you can stay up late doesn't matter. Tomorrow, you have to go to bed on time. on a deep level, children start feeling unsafe. So you can't be young, we're talking about being rigid. But as you say, you know, if you have a firm boundary and your firm and your kind, that child feel supported and safe, because mom or dad knows what they're doing. Yeah, I wanted to actually raise something else because I was talking about expectations and beliefs and myths. But there's another big part and that is values. So I talked to parents a lot about values as opposed to rules. Okay, so if you back to your point, Sarah, if you are role modeling, good manners is a value. This is what our family values children take that on much more overtime, again, may not be straight away. Then rule It's a rule you have to say hello to grantee, it's more we have a value of politeness or we have a value of tidiness every working towards now that helps you with your anger as well. Because you're not trying to impose a will. You're actually going How do I teach this value? You're not saying how do I make my child brush their teeth your guide? How do I inspire my child to value personal hygiene with the teeth

Speaker 1  24:39  
brushing thing I've done all sorts. The most? Well, the most effective is googling teeth decay images and actually showing what does happen if they don't brush their teeth because It is hard for kids to understand why is mum making me do this twice a day, it's so boring. But you know, actually understanding that we do need to, you know, to clean our teeth to get rid of the Sugar Bugs as our dentist calls them and to stop that decay. Also just talking to them about my dental experiences, like I've had to have a couple of fillings recently. So just kind of explain, if we look after our teeth, now when we're young, we're less likely to have fillings and that cost lots of money. I mean, I don't know if that really makes too much sense to them, because they always think mom's going to be paying for their dental bills, as long as But Jack is just talking about it, you know, and try to educate us, you know, this is why we do it. And obviously, that gets when they're older, they understand that a lot more than little little kids are making it fun, you know, the teeth brushing singing songs and stuff. Yeah. Or well, you can only have a story after we've done your teeth, that kind of stuff. So I mean, there's lots of strategies that we've used over the years, it very rarely ends in anger, I don't think which is good. That's pretty good. Right?

Speaker 2  26:06  
So you've got three kids, if you don't ended anger over the teeth brushing one because that's, that's a tricky one for a lot of people, right? Because we know as we know, it's interesting, though, what happens to you when you become a parent is suddenly you understand your parents, and you go, all right, I get what they said about the teeth. I forget what they said about that now, because now look at all the money I'm spending in MIT thaw. You know, like, it's, it's amazing that what changes for you when you have children isn't about your own parents, like how much more grace and latitude you can give them once you become a parent.

Speaker 3  26:40  
That's a vital point. Because we expect our kids to have a mature brain like us. It's only when they become a parent, or they reach a certain age and their brain has matured to a certain point they get you know, when we are yelling at our kids thinking they should know about all these things. However we old we are 3040 50 we expecting them to have a 3040 50 brain. So a big part of is really understanding they have an immature brain. So one of the things that you said, Rachel, you know, do they really understand that young kids do not understand consequences or long term consequences. So yeah, it's good. You're telling them and it will click in at some place, but they will understand games or immediate incentives. So it's also very helpful to have a bit of compassion. They're dealing with a three year old brain or a five year old brain, which is immature, which is impulsive, which is emotionally deregulated. They they have their own struggles. And we expected them to think like we think so that's a very helpful tool, the anger is to actually go. They don't think like I do. And I can't expect them I'm putting on these unrealistic expectations.

Speaker 1  27:54  
Yeah, I think that's a really, really good point, isn't it? I mean, I think that it's a show most underpin everything that we think about our kids as they are children, you know that they're not adults, exactly. Like you say, they don't have that maturity, like we do. So I think that even that can completely reframe your whole thinking about the way you're talking to your kids, like, you can't expect them to do all those things that your expectations are up there. But, you know, by actually managing that expectation with their kid, we can try and do what we can, but it's not going to be perfect. And we are going to have struggles or you know, they're not always going to meet my expectations. And that's, that's okay, because they're a kid,

Speaker 3  28:34  
or our expectations, as we said earlier, are not realistic. Yes, they're not 40 years old. So we have to have expectations of a five year old, and then develop them and facilitate them. Yeah, we have to change our expectations. The other thing I wanted to pick up on as well, because these are all such important points. It's also about managing your own stress. So one of the things is that often, it's not only do we forget the young kids, but we are not managing our lives that well, and we take it out. So I'll give you a very common example that I've heard. I don't know how many times mom's will tell me getting up in the morning. It's always a fight. And I will say, Tell me about your routine. So she'll say, well, we get up at seven, and we have to be at the car 22 Eight. And so from seven o'clock then I want to have a quick shower, and some yelling at the kids from the shower to get ready and by the time 22 Eight comes we're all a wreck. Okay, and I want to go Oh, yes, because you're not managing your time. I never say this. That's poor management of time. If you're in the shower, especially young kids will not do what you're telling them. They want your time they will bang on the door and make a mess and do everything to get your attention. And a very simple thing is when a mom says, Okay, I'll get up at 630, I'll have a shower, at quarter to seven, I'll get breakfast ready. And managers that whole hour gives a whole hour to get ready. Something is practical as that changes the whole morning. Yeah, so often we not arranging our time, and we hurrying up and do this because we are not doing it and putting in having a non chaotic home, putting in a bit of structure, planning our time better, giving our children time to do what they need to do. Because the minute we escalate in a hurry, we know now from social psychology, that we have social brains, we go up, our kids stress level goes up, operating at a higher level, because we rushing them, but they taking that in and they get more anxious or stressed. Yeah, we can we plan better, we believe enough time for everything. Everything goes smoother.

Speaker 1  30:56  
Yeah, it's so true. It's like, you know, if if you just give yourself that extra half an hour to get yourself ready. So therefore, you can just spend that seven to 740. Or whatever time it is, making sure that kids are getting ready, then you are going to be able to leave the house. happier and less stressed and everything's done. You know, maybe you did to set your alarm half an hour earlier and get half an hour less sleep, but maybe go to bed half an hour earlier at night and get it we do need sleep as well don't we like it, we're always told to get a certain amount of sleep, how important that is for our health as well as stress. So there's so much, but there is. But there's also stress.

Speaker 2  31:45  
And you know what Rachel is going to do now guaranteed when we start recording, make notes and spreadsheets about all this and we'll start doing you know, the little different things. But Rachel goes and exercises most mornings. So that's amazing. Because you get up early and you go and do that time for yourself. You started with exercise. That's clear. And I'm sure you've got to drag yourself sometimes because it's early, right that you go Yeah,

Speaker 1  32:10  
absolutely. But it isn't one of the things that I do that does help with my stress. Like, there was a week a couple of weeks ago, I just didn't go for I can't remember for whatever it is. And usually I got 534 morning's a week. But this week, I didn't go and I was I did find myself getting more stressed, being shorter with the kids. And I was like actually I have I'm not exercising in the morning this week. And it honestly probably a direct link is just not having that time for myself as well as the exercise. It's also something that I do for myself without kids, which is really important. I think just not having that time to just kind of clear your head and get ready for the day.

Speaker 3  32:57  
I'm very bad at making time for themselves they think it's selfish. They think it's wrong, it's indulgent. But it's actually not in the context of everything we say that more we have good time for ourselves where we managing our stress and our time better and we are calmer everybody benefits

Speaker 1  33:21  
yeah absolutely yeah it's definitely not not at all selfish to do stuff for yourself because that there's that saying isn't it's like you've got to fit your own gas mask first before you can do for you to everyone else. So if your cup is not full and if you're not looking after yourself then you can't be the best mom and be a car mom that doesn't yell

Unknown Speaker  33:41  
if I could add more gas masks Tom that would be perfect I love Rachel meant oxygen masks but I said GASMA automatically thought I know I love it when I gave my dad was on right roller on relax for an hour and I don't have gas masks strategy for the kids little little guessing

Speaker 2  34:17  
it's not rum anymore. It's Yes. No, it's been amazing. Rene thank you so much. We will obviously make sure that we give access to all the places I've ever been find you and all of your amazing books and you know the ability to be able to book in with you even and do sessions because this is all important for everybody and so grateful. We could talk for hours of course, because it is big and we'll have to get you back on again. You know because life is great for stress. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. You forget that when you're parenting it gets also intense and up in your head at all. It's it's gonna be that and yeah, you forget to like rumble and laugh and tickle and I agree we all get to do it. Yeah. Yeah. With COVID It's been very serious and tense. So yeah. Thank you so much love.

Unknown Speaker  35:12  
Thank you so much.

Unknown Speaker  35:15  
Thank you. Thank you. Ah, well Oh, sorry. Voices, Rach. We need to do.

Speaker 2  35:25  
After that chaps no more yelling. Alright. Nothing. That's it. Well,

Speaker 1  35:30  
rather than yell try whispering. Never idea before that was awesome. She said that and

Speaker 2  35:38  
when you try it. But when you actually do it right now, right? It does make you calm

Speaker 1  35:49  
she would have gotten mad if I'm right. I'd be so light.

Unknown Speaker  35:58  
But how good would it be because it a throw them they'd be like, Oh my God.

Unknown Speaker  36:03  
They would be so confused.

Speaker 2  36:05  
So your is Oh my god. But I've just got this. Hey, guys, it's time to brush your teeth. So

Unknown Speaker  36:12  
I'll give anything a go. But I reckon that could Yeah, it could be good.

Speaker 2  36:15  
I want you to report back on that. Yeah, well, I have to get my big voice back on. And thank you again to Renee mill for time and all of that all my goodness, so much amazing wisdom, a wealth of knowledge there. But if you would like to, and I, of course, always am an advocate of seeking professional help for anything. Anxiety solution. CBT. She is, of course, a best selling author as well. So there's a lot of books we talked about, in that interview that you can get that we'll have all of these tools and strategies because we can only touch on so much in half an hour Gartley. And then Oh, my goodness, so, so much more.

Speaker 1  36:57  
Yeah, her book is amazing as well. Like, even if you can't get to see her parenting with angers got, you know, fantastic books. So check that out, we'll put a link to buy that in the show notes as well. Because, yeah, as you say, we've just touched the surface scratched the surface of so many different things we can do to be able to react better to our kids. And if you're new here, have a look through we've got lots and lots of amazing interviews with so many fabulous parenting experts on all different sorts of challenges that we face as parents, so flick your way back and dip in and dip down to the stuff that is relevant to your particular stage or challenges that you're facing. And we'll be bringing a whole lot more great interviews every two weeks on a Wednesday.

Speaker 2  37:48  
Absolutely. And I think even just having these conversations, as we do, you know, you become more aware of it right? So even if you've listened for half an hour, and then suddenly a lot all you know, you're more conscious of it, you know, just from from having had this conversation and then having you know, maybe joined us for the conversation as well. So, thank you so much again for tuning in to the parenting couch podcast.