193 | "Safe" with John and Anne Downs

I’m excited today to introduce you to my friends, John and Ann Downs.  The Downs are from the Houston area, where they host a While We’re Waiting support group in The Woodlands.  They have a passion to minister to those in prison and founded Lighthouse Prison Ministry in 1996.  John serves every day in a 10,000 inmate prison in downtown Houston.  You’ll hear John’s own testimony of God’s redemption in today’s episode, as well as the story of their son, also named John, who served with honor in Iraq, only to come home and fight his own battles with addiction.  John went to Heaven six years ago this month, and his parents rest in the knowledge that he is safe.  Lean in and be encouraged.   

Click HERE to visit the website of Lighthouse Prison Ministries, Inc.  

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Transcript

Jill Sullivan
Hi, John and Anne. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today.

John Downs
Good to be here, Jill.

Anne Downs
Hi, Jill. Yeah, we're looking forward to this, our discussion.

Jill Sullivan
Yeah, I have been looking forward to talking to you for quite a while now. Let's give our guests the opportunity to learn a little bit about you. Tell us where you're from and what life is like for you there. 

John Downs
So Anne and I live, we live about 40 miles north of Houston, pretty near the place called the Woodlands. And I was born and raised here myself.  Anne was born and raised in Chicago, so I had to ended up marrying a foreigner. We both got saved kind of a little bit later in life. We were both in our 20s. Shortly after coming to the Lord, we both felt, even though she was in Chicago, I was in Houston, though we'd never met. We ended up going to the same Bible college, and that's where we met, in Chattanooga, Tennessee. And so we were married in 1986, a small church in Chattanooga, Tennessee. And currently I serve, Anne and I started a ministry called Lighthouse Prison ministry back in 1996, and I serve in downtown Houston. It's the third largest jail in the nation. We have 10,000 inmates incarcerated in downtown Houston. And so I get on a bus. I ride the bus downtown every day and preach the gospel to inmates and let them know that they didn't get arrested, they got rescued, and that God in his providence has placed us together. And I just share my testimony of what God did in my life over 40 years ago. So that's it. And so I'm going to let Anne share.

Anne Downs
Sure. Yeah. Like John said, I'm from Chicago originally, John I met in Chattanooga, Tennessee. And when we got married, it didn't take long. A few months later, I found out I was pregnant with our first child. And so that's how we ended up moving to Houston, was because we wanted to raise our kids in a good church, and we knew of a good church that was here in Houston. Of course, him being from Houston was also a good fit. So in March 1987, John Michael was born. And in the years following, we had two babies that we lost to miscarriage. And then in September 1991, our daughter, Laurel Anne was born. And so John and Laurel were home schooled, and then they went to public high school. And until just recently, I've been working. And I retired at the end of 2022. So I could take more time to focus on ministry and do the While We're Waiting and just take time off to relax rather than work in the corporate world.

Jill Sullivan
Sure. Yeah. Well, thank you. John, you mentioned that you do prison ministry, which is wonderful. And I love the phrase that you use. You weren't arrested, you were rescued. Yeah. Talk about your own testimony. Fill us in a little bit about you.

John Downs
Okay. So both of my parents were really bad alcoholics. And so I was raised in a home that was difficult. I played little league. I was in a great area, but it was a dream and a nightmare at the same time. There's a lot of violence in my home and just a lot of trauma to my soul as a child. And consequently, I began medicating. I began using drugs early. I started drinking and using drugs at age twelve. And really, the big turning point in my life was when I was 15. My dad and mom were having a huge fight, just a bloody fight. And my dad died basically right in my arms of a heart attack. And so I went into a fog and a girl there at the high school introduced me to heroin just about two months after that. And I was just at 16, I was 15, actually, and I got on heroin. And it was a journey that would last eight years and eight felonies altogether. Although I never went to prison. That's a whole 'nother story, how God. So many things that God did along those lines. Arrested twice for the delivering heroin to federal agents. Finally, I stood in a courtroom in downtown Houston where I go every day and am a chaplain now. And they were going to give me 20 years in prison. But God put an attorney in my path whose son had died of a heroin overdose. His son and I were real close, and he was a born again Christian. And he took my case for free. And he said, I'm not going to let you die like Richard. That was his son. And he knew a Baptist preacher that had a place called The Lighthouse. It was actually an island 40 miles south of Corpus Christi, Texas. The only way you could get there is by boat and airplane. And it was just amazing. He told me, came back to the cell where I was incarcerated and said, look, I'm going to talk to the judge about The lighthouse. There's a place you can go swim, fish, have a great time. And I'm thinking, wow, this is going to be great. And make a long story short, he was able to get me court ordered down there, and he didn't say anything about the Lord, nothing about God, that it was a Christian place. And I got down there and, boy, was I in for it. I left Houston and I thought, well, I'm leaving. And I'll just come back and pick up where I left off. I had to go down there. I was court ordered for two years. I ended up staying four. But the program was amazing, and it was all Bible. There were no other books allowed, the Bible and a concordance. And it was down there that we had chapel three times a day. They called it the You Will program, and that's where you will memorize 60 chapters of the word of God. And I began memorizing. I did went beyond memorizing just chapters. I began memorizing books of the Bible, and that was what transformed my life. I had taken so many hallucinogens, LSD and everything young, and it had blown my brains out. And the Word of God really restored my mind. Anne, do you agree with that?

00:06:54 - Anne Downs
Sure.

00:06:56 - Jill Sullivan
She's not so sure about that.

00:06:58 - John Downs
Yeah. So, anyway, about nine months into the program, from the memorization of the Word of God, I was working on the Word. The Word is working on me. I came to a verse in 2 Corinthians 7 where it says, godly sorrow works repentance to salvation, but the sorrow of the world worketh death. And, of course, that's talking about regret versus repentance. And I was always sorry I got caught. But for the first time in my life, I knew I was breaking God's heart. I'd made a profession of faith. When I was younger, my sister took me to a crusade, and I'm not sure what happened there. It didn't really matter. I just wanted to nail down my salvation. So I got on the floor of the chapel at the Lighthouse, and I said, Lord, I'm crowning you. Just that. Lord of my life. And it's been over 40 something years ago, and I am so thankful for that. The memorization of scripture, the old hymns that we learned down there, and so stayed there four years, worked with the folks there, and had to get my GED because I hadn't even graduated from high school so I could go to college. And then I went off to college, where I met Anne. And we were on staff at a church, her and I. I was associate pastor at a Baptist church here in Houston. And the Lord started stirring us both up. And that's when I felt led to go to full time prison ministry and go back to where the Lord had really began to draw. So I went to Texas death row as a chaplain for eight years, and then the Lord put me in the same jail where I serve now as actually the lead chaplain for many years. And thankfully, I'm not the lead chaplain now, but we had 14,000 inmates at that time. But I just go in, bring the clear, just bring the pure gospel of Lord Jesus Christ on a daily basis, and tell those guys that there is a way out of addiction, and it's not in a program, it's in a person, and his name is the Lord Jesus Christ. So that's what I do every day, and I'm very thankful that the Lord's allowed me to do that and be a good steward of what he did in my life.

Jill Sullivan
Yes, exactly. Is there a way that people can find out more about Lighthouse Prison Ministry?

John Downs
Yeah, there is a website for Lighthouse Prison Ministries.

00:09:28 - Jill Sullivan
All right, I will put that in the show notes then, so that people can learn more about it and maybe make a donation or support it in some way, because, wow, what a valuable ministry and what a beautiful picture of using your trials, your experiences, the things that God brought you through to serve others.

John Downs
Yeah, that's what I tell the inmates. My principal asset in my life is I can walk in any cell block in that jail, and here's this old white man walking in there, and they're thinking, I'm a cop. And as soon as I say, hey, I'm Chaplain Downs, I've got eight felonies addicted to heroin. Every one of them gets off their bunk and comes down. I just want ten minutes to tell you about a way out. So I love it. Never gets old.

Jill Sullivan
Yeah. Do you see a lot of fruit?

John Downs
I do see a lot of fruit lately. A lot of times in prison ministries, you have shallow decisions and all and we try to avoid all that. It's not about a prayer you pray. It's about what God does in your heart.

Jill Sullivan
Right.

John Downs
So, mainly I'm sowing seed and letting God do the rest, because salvation is of the Lord. So the fruit. Now, I was on the phone today with four guys that have been out now for quite a while, and they're all serving God. And out of the thousands of guys I've ministered to, I would say maybe 5% of them have gone on to really serve the Lord, and I'm good with that. We won't know until heaven, right? Until we understand and know what really happened.

Jill Sullivan
Yeah, that's right. Wow. That's fascinating to me. I could talk about that all day, but we need to move on. We're here today to talk about your son John. You said he was your firstborn. Take a few minutes and tell us about him. Help us get to know him a little bit.

Anne Downs
Sure. Of course. I love talking about John.

Jill Sullivan
Yes.

Anne Downs
It's just a matter of trying to keep it short. Right. We had him for 30 years, almost 31 years, and so many facets. But the big overview, I would say that first John was saved. He was a Christian. He asked Jesus to save him when he was six years old. So he grew up in church, and he was liked by everyone. He was very likable. He makes friends wherever he goes. So he had all kinds of friends, easy to get along with. He was very funny. And we were amazed. We didn't even realize until after his funeral, or even starting at the funeral, how many people just loved him and had come to his service. And they would come up to us and say, John was my best friend. And we saw people from his high school, people from the army, people from his work, just all these different people that we didn't even know existed. And they all had stories about John, which, as you know, is so valuable to hear about the things that he did for people and the funny stories and all the stuff that you didn't get to hear because you're mom or your dad.

Jill Sullivan
Right?

Anne Downs
But anyway, John was very smart. He loved computers, and he built computers. He was always helping people with their computer problems, including dad. In high school, he and his friends would have LAN parties, and that is where these guys or whoever get together at somebody's house and they connect their computers, and then they play computer games all night.

Jill Sullivan
Okay.

Anne Downs
That was one of his favorite things to do. And he also loved flying aircraft. He especially loved World War II airplanes. And there was a local hangar that he would go to. He got to know a couple of the pilots, and they would take him on flights every now and then. So he loved World War II history. He loved the aircraft. He loved everything about it. But my best memory of John was that we always say he was full of love. He could be a tough guy, but underneath, he was really just a sweet kid that had a heart full of love. He was always good to me, his mom. What else? Want to add anything to?

John Downs
You know, he was. John was truly a gift from God, as all children are. And he was very special because it was like his arrival was such a confirmation to Anne and I of the blessing that was on our life from the Lord. It was so sweet for God to have done that early on in our marriage. And John was a dad's dream come true because he was just all boy. He loved to hunt. He loved to fish. At a very early age, he was with me hunting in the field, and he was just a natural with a gun. He was amazing, an amazing guy that just took to guns, whatever. We were hunting ducks, doves, whatever. But he loved cars. He was just a dream come true. It was so much fun as a dad to have a son like that. But John, as Anne said, full of love and easy to love. He never disrespected myself or mom, and his favorite hobby, I say, was tormenting me. He was always giving me a hard time. He loved doing that, but the bottom line is that John was like all of us. He was a sinner who needed a Savior. Bottom line? Yeah.

Jill Sullivan
Well, then I know that he had some struggles in his life. Talk about that.

John Downs
He did. John, we'd had conversations. He knew that both of his grandparents were alcoholics. He knew my story. He knew my struggles. And the bible is very clear that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, that we're all broken, and we all come under the theological term totally depraved. Everybody is. That doesn't mean everybody's as wicked or sinful as they could be, but it means we're all broken. And some of us, particularly when there's addiction involved, some people would say it's generational. I just think that there's many elements involved. Their bottom line is we're all fractured. And John, he began drinking in high school, and because of the nature of addiction and all, he began drinking, smoking marijuana, and even though he was in the band and all but hanging out with folks, and they were all drinking, and John just kind of lost his way when he started to drink. After graduating, he was drinking heavily. Things escalated, and to the point where at one point, we had to sit down, and I told him, I said, John, you know, we love you. That's not even negotiable, and you know that. But it's no longer an option for you to live in our house, okay? It was very hard with the drinking, and for me particularly, because of what I grew up with and just the horrible stuff I went through. And so we told him he needed to make a choice that was either to move out or join the service. His friend had already joined, the very, very best friend that he was just like his brother that he met in boy scouts had already joined. And so John was sent to Hawai and became a machine gunner on a striker unit that went to Iraq. During that time, his friend Corey that had joined got blown up in Iraq, and that was a whole 'nother layer that just drove him deeper, deeper into what he was already dealing with. And the monster of addiction he was sent to combat there right outside of Baghdad saw a lot. We don't even know everything that they went through. It was a rough situation over there, as you know. And when he returned, he was drinking very heavy, and it escalated once again into a situation where had to sit down and say, John, originally, I just told him, I need 30 days. I need for you to go to this rehab for 30 days. And I wish it had been a faith based program. It was not. But I knew that he was going to get sober there. The guy running it was a guy that had gotten saved in a jail service that I was preaching. He'd given his life to Christ, got out, got an education, and started this program south of here. So John did real well there. And it was there that he met some good folks. He met one guy that talked to him about working in chemical plants, process technology. So John ended up going off to college, went to college for how. How long did he go?

Anne Downs
It was a two year program.

John Downs
Two year program. And, you know, got a great job, had a great career, still drinking. And even though he had all that, you know, the saying, our hearts are restless until they rest in God. And so John was not putting the Lord first in his life, you know, with everything that had gone through. He was in a dark place, but even though everything he had, everything, he was still struggling. And for me, it was hard to watch it, because I knew exactly what was going on.

Anne Downs
Right.

John Downs
I knew the place he was in. So that was some of the struggles we went through.

Jill Sullivan
So you all went to dinner together for Anne's birthday in 2018. Talk about what happened after that.

Anne Downs
Yeah, that was February 2018, and we met for dinner, the four of us, John and I, and, of course, John and Laurel. And looking back, I know that John did seem a little bit discombobulated, I would say. But I attributed that to the fact that he had just broken up with his girlfriend the month before. They had been together for two years. And also he did a lot of shift work where he went back and forth from days to nights and night to days. So I felt like he was a little bit out of sorts because he was tired, sure. But anyway, so I didn't really think that much of it. But after dinner, we went out to his truck, and he gave me my birthday gift, and we all hugged and said goodnight, and he went his way to his house, and we went to ours, and it would be the last time that John's dad and sister would see him. But at the end of February, I flew to Chicago to see my mom and my custom on a Chicago trip was that, if possible, I would bring home a pizza from our favorite pizza place, and so it would have to be on the way to the airport. I would order the pizza and pick it up and then go to the flight and have the hot pizza on board. And so this time, it was going to work out perfectly. So I got the pizza, and normally, John would have just come over to the house, and we would have had pizza. But this time, it was in the evening, and his house, the airport was halfway between his house and our house. So I said, why don't we just meet at the airport, and I'll just hand the pizza off to you? And he said, yeah, that would work great. So I met him. That was the evening of February 26, and it's one of those memories that's etched in my mind, like, just crystal clear. I remember his car coming around. We met at baggage claim. He got out of the car, I handed him the pizza. He hugged me, and we talked a little bit, and then he hugged me again. He hugged me twice. And I always remember just the feel of his shirt. He was much taller than me, so I was, like, hugging on his shoulder, and I just remember his shirt and his smell and everything. And then he took off. And then that was the last time that I saw him. On the night of February 28, 2018, he went out for a drive, and it was shortly after midnight, which would have been March 1, that he wrecked. We did not know about the accident for another 14 hours. We didn't know anything. I was just in bliss, basically. I got up, went to work, and in a way, that haunts me, that somehow I feel like I should have known, but I didn't know. And it wasn't until I got a call from John, from his dad, asking me if I had talked to John. And we kind of tracked it down and figured out.

John Downs
It was him that had wrecked that last night, the last time that I got to see him, it was a very sad dinner because John was ... You could tell he was just not himself. And normally, there'd be some joking around. There was none of that. And John was so smart and so handy. He could fix everything. And I watched him. Laurel had brought this key fob that needed to be fixed. And it was something that John, something like that, normally, he just do it, like 10 seconds, but he was just, like, struggling with it. And I was watching him. My heart was just ...I remember that my heart was breaking. I was, like. I was just broken because he was so forlorn. Like Anne said he'd broken up with his girlfriend, and his best friend Anthony, who they were roommates. His friend had left to get married, and of. He just kind of again, had lost his way. And so it was a very sad time for me, and that last time is not a good memory for me.

Jill Sullivan
Sure. Yeah, that's hard. So you got the phone call, and then what followed after that?

John Downs
Well, I was downtown at the jail, so I had taken the bus downtown. Anne was working. She's working close to where we live up 40 miles north of Houston. And so I'm walking downtown back from lunch and just eating a huge lunch. Somebody treated me, and I got a text from his roommate, and his roommate said that his wife. No, it wasn't his roommate. They had already moved. Yeah, they had been roommates, and they were extremely close. He was married. He said his wife had just called him from a doctor's office and said, look on the news, there's been a fatality accident in Crosby, where John lived, and it looks like John's car. He sent me a picture, and I looked at it, and I just went into shock, and I was trapped downtown. I had no way of getting home at that point. So I called Anne in shock and just blurted out, john is dead. I mean, I can't believe I did that, but I did. And she kind of yelled at me. What'd you say?

Anne Downs
So first he said, have you talked to John? And I said, no. And he said, John is dead. And I said, why would you say that to me? I'm his mother. Why would you say something like that, so he started to tell me a little bit the details while at work, I'm on the computer, and I really quick tried to just google the news, and I saw the car, the picture, and I guess it's the same thing that happens over and over again in your mind, you know, it is true, but you're saying, no, that's not him. So I got off the phone with John, and I told him. I said, I need to find out. So I just started calling the different law enforcement agencies, the different precincts, and I finally got to one where they put me on hold and put me on hold for a long time. And I had said that I was his mother. And they got back on and confirmed that it was John that had wrecked. So that was, I call that the beginning. The beginning of the new world that we landed in after. Anyway, so after that, you drove? Yeah, I drove. I walked over to my colleague's office and said, told her what happened. She walked me down to my car made me promise that I would go right home. You don't need to drive. Go home. So I said, sure, I'll go home. And I just immediately went downtown to pick up John because we had to go be with Laurel, who was living further south of Houston. And we went down there just to be together and cried and howled and whatever you do, whatever we did, I don't even remember. But, yeah, that was how that day went.

Jill Sullivan
Yeah. Such a nightmare. I'm just so sorry that you all had to go through all of that. While sharing your story at a retreat, you stated that the struggles and the battles that John faced in his personal life did not remove or negate his identity as a Christian. Talk about that.

John Downs
Yeah, it's something that I really harp on with everybody that I'm ministering to, and it has to do with what I would call the security of the believer, the eternal security of the believer, because a lot of people face doubt about whether or not they're saved. And now, I knew that John had made a profession of faith, and he had also, when he was going through a really rough time, he and I got on the floor at his house and he recommitted his life. Becoming a Christian, your salvation is of the Lord. Jonah 2:9. And it's all of him. He does it all. And becoming a Christian is something that God does in our heart by his grace, as the Bible says, for by grace are we saved through faith, and that not of ourselves. It's a gift of God. It's what he does, not what we do. It is God who saves us. We cannot save ourselves. God who saves us and not ourselves. Better is God who saves us and we cannot save ourselves. And our salvation is really contingent not upon us, but upon the character and nature of God. When we trust in the finished work of Jesus Christ and put our faith in what he did for us on the cross. And so the Bible is very clear on this, and there's folks that don't believe this. I'm real big on it. And I stress how the inmates know my saying. I say, let me tell you something. You're in his grip and his grip doesn't slip, okay? You're going to slip because sin remains. No, it no longer should reign, but it still remains in our lives, okay? Your flesh did not get saved. And so John's identity as a born again believer did not change because he struggled with alcohol, because he fell and stumbled in his walk. The Bible is real clear, just verses, simple verses. John 3:16, simple, but it sums it all up. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life, eternal life. It's an unending life that doesn't end based upon our bad decisions, which we all make. So I think when we get to heaven, Jill, we're going to be surprised by who's not there that we thought were going to be there, and who is there that we thought would never make it. Because it's all about his grace, and it's all about God being in control of this whole thing and not us. And the Bible is very clear that at the point of salvation, Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30, that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. It says, sealed until the day of redemption. And we are confident, Philippians 1:6, of this very thing, that he which had begun a good work in us will complete that until the day of Christ. No, I know that I'll see John again. Very confident in that. And heaven's become a lot sweeter there.

Jill Sullivan
Yes, absolutely. Thank you for sharing all of that, because I know that there are parents who struggle with that. Their kids had some issues. Their kids dealt with some stuff.

John Downs
Yeah. When we went to Hot Springs for the retreat, which was a game changer for Anne, and I. I'll never forget this. There was this woman sobbing in there because she said ... My daughter, I never got her baptized, and my daughter is in hell. Literally, she said, crying out, my daughter is in hell. So, you know, I got with her afterwards that night and explained to her salvation, and I asked her about her daughter believing. My daughter believed on the Lord Jesus Christ at a camp. But I said, okay, so I'm going to say a statement, and I want you to understand something. There's not power in the tub. There's power in the blood. And so that woman, I'm going to tell you, she lit up, and I showed her from the scripture, it's a finished work of Christ, and it's believing on the Lord. And took her to the thief on the cross and said, here's one that believed on the Lord. Didn't get baptized. And yet the Lord said, today. And so at the end of the retreat, as you know, we all write something on the board, and that's what she wrote. There's power in the blood, not power in the tub.

Jill Sullivan
That's right. Good. Yeah, I know that's an encouragement to someone who's listening today. So thank you so much for sharing that. I also wrote down something else you said at that retreat, you said just this very simple sentence, John Downs is safe. What did you mean by that?

John Downs
Well, that's a whole nother story, John and I, all of us, Anne included. As you can see, she's got an Astros shirt right now. So we're big Houston Astros fans. We love going down to Minute Maid park, particularly John and I. He would meet me because I could walk there from the jail, right? So we'd buy these really cheap tickets, and the Astros were really bad at that time. So we could get tickets for $5 and basically sit behind home plate, but we'd sit way up. And so, you know, they were selling these, know, buy a paver, and you can put whatever in front of the. You know, I kept saying, John, we ought to do that. And he's like, dad, really, I'm not interested. It's a waste of money. So I went ahead and did it. So I thought, I'm going to put something on that brick that John can read after I'm dead and home, with the knowledge that he can walk over there, because I'll tell him about it. And I did. I told him I did it, and I put on there something kind of corny. People say baseball is in the Bible. "In the big inning". I put that on there. Genesis. And then I put, "John Downs is safe", meaning by then I would be dead and I would be home safe with the Lord. Little did I know that it was going to end up being a message that John Downs, my son, is our son is safe, free from addiction, free from pain, and home with the Lord. So he's safe in the arms of God. So that's how that worked out. That's what I meant by that.

00:35:27 - Jill Sullivan
Yeah. I love that.