Ep 53 | Sobriety Through Spirituality - Ericka’s Story

When Ericka first confided her struggle with alcohol with a small group gathered in her church basement, she shared her addiction bravely and honestly. Her voice beckons us to walk alongside her as she navigates sobriety through the lens of her faith as a Christian woman. Today, we're honored to share the microphone with Ericka, who gives a raw and truthful account of her path from high school warning signs to the pressures of social drinking that escalated into motherhood. It's not just about the cautionary tales but finding a balance in educating without instigating rebellion, all while upholding the values that are the bedrock of our lives. Her story is one of bravery that will resonate with anyone grappling with the complexities of being open and honest as a Christian woman in recovery. The episode culminates with a look at the indispensable role of the church in nurturing spiritual growth and supporting those in recovery.
Ericka and I met when she reached out to me via Instagram last November for an interview she was working on for Christianity Today. We had a great connection immediately. We are both women of faith leading a life of sobriety, and that interview turned into a very long conversation as we shared our experiences with each other. I knew she would be a great guest on the She Surrenders podcast!
Ericka is also the author of the Book;
Reason to Return-Why Women need the Church and the Church Needs Them. We will talk a little bit more about the book here too and of course I will link the book in the notes as well. So welcome Ericka, I am so glad we finally made this happen! 

BIO
Ericka Andersen is a freelance writer in Indianapolis, Indiana. She's a mom of two and the author of Reason to Return and Leaving Cloud 9 https://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Cloud-Resurrected-Poverty-Illness/dp/1400208270. You can follow her on Instagram @ericka_andersen and learn more at ErickaAndersen.com

Book Links
By Ericka Andersen:
Reason to Return-Why Women need the Church and the Church Needs Women.
http://reasontoreturn.co/
Leaving Cloud Nine-The True Story of a Life Resurrected from the Ashes of Poverty, Trauma, and Mental Illness
https://amzn.to/3xh5XSI

Mentioned in the Podcast
Downstairs Church -Finding Hope in the Grit of Addiction and Trauma Recovery by Caroline Beidler
https://amzn.to/43DlhVu
Sober Spirituality-The Joy of a Mindful Relationship with Alcohol https://amzn.to/3xcVuYt

*note from Sherry
"I have not personally read the books Mentioned in the Podcast so I do not place them here as a personal recommendation but as a resource for you to pursue as they were mentioned by our guest. I do plan on reading them myself but at the time of publication of this podcast I have not. "

About the She Surrenders Podcast:

On the She Surrenders podcast we are talking about women, faith and addiction all on the same platform. There are many podcasts for women and sobriety, but very few for women seeking information and stories from others about faith-based recovery.   

Help us reach more listeners: like, subscribe, review, and share. 

Find us on Instagram @shesurrenders_sherry, on Facebook @shesurrenderssherry, and online at www.shesurrenders.com. 

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:01

Welcome back to the she Surrenders podcast. My name is Sherry and my goal for this podcast is to bring you the good news that faith-based recovery works, and it is where you will find the joy in life that you did not think was possible while you were still in the bondage of addiction. The stories you will hear from the women, and sometimes men, of those that have walked in your shoes or alongside someone who has will inspire you to pursue the freedom they have found. That comes from surrendering not only our addictions but also our guilt and our shame to God. Matthew 19, verse 26 tells us that Jesus said with man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible. I pray you hear something today that brings you to a new understanding that this is true for you too, because it is Now on to our guest.

Speaker 1 1:04

My guest today is Erica Anderson. I met Erica last fall when she reached out to interview me for an article she was doing for Christianity today, and we hit it off right away and that interview turned into a long conversation. We had so much in common and a great connection right away. We're both women of faith leading a life of sobriety and I knew she would be a great guest on the she Surrenders podcast. She's an author and she has two books out there and we're going to talk about those as well, and I just want to say welcome to the she Surrenders podcast, erica, I'm so happy you're here.

Speaker 2 1:44

Yeah, thank you so much for for having me on. I'm excited.

Speaker 1 1:47

Yeah, so you have, as I mentioned, a couple stories that we related to and as a writer and as a woman in recovery. So, because of what the she Surrenders podcast is about, I'm wondering if you want to start there and share your story of getting into recovery, what that looked like for you, or whatever you want to share. I'll let you start there.

Speaker 2 2:11

Yeah, definitely. Well, I know you and I connected because of a story I was writing. I was led to write this story because of my own experience, which essentially was that I felt like there weren't enough resources out there specifically for Christian women seeking sobriety. I've been in the sobriety world and I've read all the sobriety memoirs and been to support groups and all the things, but I often felt very alienated from a lot of them because, of course, as a Christian like, my focus is Christ and I need Jesus in my recovery and he was not present in the room in some of these places. So I was looking for that and I was surprised it took me so long to find you, honestly, like it should have found you in the beginning, and I never did because there's just not enough. Not enough out there.

Speaker 2 3:01

So, to give the backstory, I started realizing that I had a difficult relationship with alcohol in high school and that clearly tells you already like something is not right with the way I have this relationship, and alcoholism does run in my family, so it shouldn't have been surprising. But of course, I went to college and did not stop drinking, continue to have that complicated relationship. Nothing that you know ruined my life or anything like that, but just was not great and I didn't know how to drink in a responsible way and just made a lot of bad choices, mostly stupid things. That happened, you know, we all have those stories, but it definitely didn't feel good or sustainable for my life. But again, nothing obscene or tragic happened to me, so I just continued on.

Speaker 2 3:50

As you know, people told me like you're just a normal college student moving on to young professional life, which is sort of a different phase in your, your life as a drinker it's. You know, lots of things in your 20s, especially in a big city where I was living, revolve around drinking. I mean, dc, where I live, was the most I believe it is the most alcoholic city in the world and everything revolves around alcohol. So I was not in a good spot there. And you know I started using alcohol in a lot of different ways at that point using it for anxiety, even boredom, using it to overcome, you know, relationship fears and just like all kind. I just started using it like more regularly, in a negative way, like a drug which it is.

Speaker 2 4:34

And so it would cross my mind like I gotta stop doing like this is not good, like I need to stop. But it felt totally impossible. Like the thought would cross my mind, but it felt completely impossible. And so I would like you know, eventually started like googling around, like how do you know if you have a drinking problem and you know a meetings like that was scary. I was like I don't want anyone to see me googling this, you know, you know, and I would look at the meetings and I'd be like oh, there's no way I could go, like I would just imagine, like trying to walk into this church and like where's the meeting and like I couldn't, it was like so overwhelming to even think about.

Speaker 2 5:09

And you know this was before there was a lot of online stuff, so there just wasn't, there weren't on really online meetings at that time. This was, you know. This is still in college to know this is young, professional life in my professional life.

Speaker 2 5:22

Yeah, okay probably 2010, 2012 even, and so I just kind of continued on like that. You know kind of the ups and downs, and I'm very lucky that I was never hurt. I'm lucky that I was never assaulted, that I was never abducted. I mean, I would put myself in these really awful situations because you do stupid things like that when you're drunk, and all along this time, the whole time. I forgot to mention I'm going to church, I'm part of Bible studies.

Speaker 1 5:55

No way, no way. There's no possible way about that.

Speaker 2 6:00

You know, no one would ever think like, oh, she has, she, she has a problem. And even when I would bring it up, maybe to like a friend, like I think I have an issue, people just be like no, you're fine, you're fine, you don't have a problem. And I'm trying to think like how to like shorten this up. But essentially I did not quit drinking. I couldn't even quit for like 30 days, like that was so hard. But eventually my husband got married. He does not have a good relationship with alcohol either. He has like a long history and his family. So us drinking together was never a good thing. That was very toxic for us. We still did it all the time.

Speaker 2 6:44

Then I had started having kids and then it became more of a, like a oh, it's five o'clock, like I've got to have the wine to cook dinner or I'm never going to get through this. Like it was just like a sweet relief. It was like I just, I can just have the wine, like this night will be so much easier. And then like, all of a sudden I'm drinking wine almost every day you know, my neighbors have it like we all drink together and it just started to become. I felt very out of control and I would tell myself I'm not going to drink today. And then next thing I know I'm drinking that night and then I'm waking up in the middle of the night going you can't say no like you. You can't say no Like this is. And then I would start like feeling very panicky, like oh my gosh, like you're out of control, like you could do something really bad, like you could somehow hurt your kids, you could somehow ruin your life. What if you drove? What if you know you weren't paying attention and you know I had little kids like what if you weren't paying attention enough and your toddler did something because you weren't watching her closely enough? So all of this stuff is in my head and I'm like I need you, I'm going to quit drinking. But of course, getting to that point is a lot harder than when you say it.

Speaker 2 7:52

But I would say around that time, like in probably 2018, 2017 or so, is when I really started to sort of like do more Googling and I started to really look in, like I started buying some books and just sort of like being curious, like sober curious, and I found that I found Annie Grace, this naked mind, and I think she's such a godsend for so many people because she is so. It's really about the curiosity with her. At least, when you start working with her, you start reading her books and that took the pressure off. It made it be okay to keep drinking and yet like, read about this and educate yourself and all of that. So that's where it all began.

Speaker 2 8:37

And then there was, just like you know, tries and tries and starts and failing and trying again, and then ultimately, you know, I got to a place where I was able to. You know I had quit drinking for six months and then that was like the longest I'd ever gone. And then I went back to drinking because it was COVID. Like you know, it was had been in COVID and COVID started. I got a two and a four year old, so I just I gave up.

Speaker 1 9:03

It was summer and then, like so many others, right.

Speaker 2 9:07

I'm sure. And at first it was fine. I was like, oh, I'm fine, like I, this is totally fine. But then, of course, like by the end of the summer, I was no longer feeling fine, I was feeling trapped again. And so I remember one night I was debating whether or not I was going to drink at this thing with a friend's house and I was like, well, I can have this much, and like I don't know. And then I have this meeting and I was like what are you doing? Like why are you having a debate in your head about how much you're going to drink on a Monday night? Like this is an unnecessary conversation, this doesn't need to be part of your life. So I was like, okay, it's September 1st tomorrow. I'm sober, September, I'm 30 days, and that was the start of what never ended.

Speaker 2 9:50

And now it's three and a half years later and of course there's a lot that goes into like how I was able to manage that.

Speaker 2 9:56

But that is like the shorter version of my story, without including all the crazy stories and details that went into it. But ultimately, like I did, I did, I have been sober and I have found community and because of this sobriety I've learned so much about myself, about God, about my faith, which has become so clear and so able to grow again. Because I just I always look back at all of those years and I see, like this faith that would grow a little. And then I just picture like a big bottle of liquor being like poured on the plant and then you kill it, and then you grow a little and then you kill it and you can't get anywhere. Because I think there's a reason that you know. It's like you can't be drunk on, like get drunk on the spirit, not on wine. I really don't think you can be filled with the Holy Spirit if you're drunk, and I felt that so clearly, like if I was drinking. It was like, well, okay, god is over here now, like now I'm drinking, you know so, so much.

Speaker 1 10:59

Even the filled with the Holy Spirit, if you're drinking, even if you're not physically drinking in the moment, but your mind is filled with the obsession of drinking.

Speaker 2 11:10

There's no room Right If you're obsessing over or rules or you know, just thinking about it, deciding am I going to do it. It takes up so much space in your head. And also, if you're making plans to, like, have dinner with people or whatever it's like, instead of focusing on that, you're focusing on, like, if you're going to drink, or how you're going to feel if you don't drink or if you do drink, and it's just so exhausting.

Speaker 1 11:37

Even if you don't have a drinking problem. I was thinking about this recently that there's so many decisions that go into an evening based on alcohol. Who's the driver? Yeah, because you don't drink, and I mean you'd better not go out and drink at all and plan on driving, especially nowadays, you know so there's that. Or who's going to pick you up, or who's going, where are you going to stay? I mean, like a wedding is like a major car shuffle. You know if you're part of a wedding party and that's what I would, even having a problem, that's, you know. Yeah, so I'm like look at all the problems and issues it causes, and I'm not saying that nobody should drink if they don't have a problem. I'm not saying that, but I'm just saying it's a much simpler life.

Speaker 2 12:25

Well, and I also think that you know, like with driving, like sure, if I was going to be driving, I would never drive like totally drunk or anything. But did I go places and have a couple drinks and then drive home Like probably when it wasn't the smartest thing? Yeah, and a lot of people do that, even people that don't have a problem do that, and that's not okay, like you're not driving in an optimal way. And you know it was like all this stuff, what if? What if I got pulled over? And then you know, all of you know all of this like that decision alone like made it super hard because it was like, well, do I really want to go if I can't drink? You know it was like that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 13:05

Right, Right, Right and yeah, that's. That's the problem with drinking and driving to those, because they're so often not. I was guilty of that too, Like I'm sure I'm fine to drive, but I mean no there was times that I wasn't, and I'm sure that happens every day and we know it.

Speaker 2 13:24

We know it does.

Speaker 1 13:26

But I had, I had a couple of questions for you throughout your story. Now, to dig out the mass, they're good questions. So when you were in high school and so because I didn't have that high school drinking, you know, when I was young, it took a long time for alcohol to really grab me and become a thing. So when you talk about you know like that was a thing right away for you and you knew it was in your family. Did that scare you at all? Did you have that in the back you had like this is probably not a good idea, or were you um?

Speaker 2 14:03

it didn't scare me. I was pretty removed from it affecting me and my family. Like, both of my grandfathers had alcoholism. One of them died of liver disease but um, but my other grandpa, he had been sober like, I think, by the time I was born, maybe or a little after, so I never experienced that. My dad drank a lot and he still does, but he doesn't. He's not like a person that bad things happen when he drinks.

Speaker 2 14:32

He's sort of like happy all the time, Like it's just one of those things where, like he's one of those people that I don't think he should drink so much, but it doesn't affect him in a way to where, like it ruins lives or anything like that. So I didn't really experience the negativity, I just sort of knew about it. And for me in high school I was just like I just wanna be cool, I just wanna fit in.

Speaker 1 14:52

And so.

Speaker 2 14:52

I remember the first time I got drunk, like I remember feeling really stupid the next day because I acted stupid, but then it became a guilt thing, like I did it once, but then I was like, but I'm making all these friends and I wanna fit in, just typical teenager stuff, and so I would drink frequently on the weekends and I would always the next day just like wake up, just like totally ridden with guilt, and I was always even in college. In college I have I remember having all these conversations late at night with people where I'd start talking about God and I started these conversations always and people were like oh, she's talking about God again. It's like what am I doing?

Speaker 1 15:35

So it was a weird mix at the time, right well, sometimes at least in our drinking moments, we all know when we had those conversations like, here she comes again. You know.

Speaker 2 15:47

Yeah, and college is like. I'm like I don't want my kids to go to college. I mean I do, but the drinking culture is so scary, it is so normalized to binge drink and it's really scary to think about being in that environment. And I already talked to my kids about addiction, like I've told them-. That was my next question.

Speaker 1 16:08

What do you tell your kids? Because obviously your parents weren't whispering in your ear like be careful, be careful, it's in our family. You know there wasn't, that wasn't going on. But what are you gonna tell your kids as they so? How old are they?

Speaker 2 16:21

now they're five and eight Five and eight.

Overcoming Addiction and Finding Compassion

Speaker 2 16:25

So my husband's mother was a severe alcoholic and drug addict like her entire life, and he grew up in horrible, horrible domestic situation and so we got that going on over there. We got my grandfathers and some other people in one side of my family that we've seen this happen too, and so when we talk about especially older one, I say alcohol is bad for your body, it's not good for you, but also like for us. We actually have to think about it even more because we have addiction in our family. But explain what addiction is. I'm like that just means that if you drink alcohol someday, like you are more likely to develop an addiction and so it's really important that you like not drink it, at least until you're 21, until you're older, but really like preferably don't drink it at all because you just you don't know how that's gonna affect you and it's like a disease and so I don't. It's hard because I'm like I don't want to do that thing, where I'm like don't do that and then like they do it out of rebellion.

Speaker 2 17:32

So, I think this like language about, like concern, because it's in our family. So I'm not saying it's a sin or anything like that, but I think that's gonna make the difference, because that's a really different characterization than just being like you're not supposed to drink, it's illegal, or something like that.

Speaker 1 17:50

So we'll see. Speaking the truth in law is basically, you know, he knows about me.

Speaker 2 17:56

Like he said, mom, are you an alcoholic? And I'm like, well, kind of like it depends on if you want to use that label. I know everybody has their own feelings on the word. Yeah, yeah, and my husband does drink, sometimes not very much, though he does not drink very much, and so there's really no alcohol in our house ever Going into your marriage.

Speaker 1 18:18

were you scared Like what is I'm bringing my drinking into my marriage? Did you and your husband talk about it, or was it easier not to talk about it?

Speaker 2 18:26

Well we were. We had a lot of. We each had a lot of our own issues of going into our marriage. He had a lot of healing to do. Whole long story that you can actually read about in my first book called Leaving Cloud Nine. It's the story of his life growing up. It's a memoir, but you know we are. I mean I think our marriage is where it is today.

Speaker 2 18:52

We've been married almost 11 years only by God's grace, I think. You know, without God at the center of who we are in our lives, like there's no way we would be married with all the issues. Like he has a lot of PTSD and trauma. I don't have that. I had a great family growing up for the most part, but you know I had my own issues. I had my eating disorder, I had my drinking issues. I've had like depression, anxiety, and then he's got all these other things that he was bringing in and you got these two people coming together and so and, like I said, we were toxic when we drank a lot together and so that those like explosive fighting would happen a lot. So things like that happened.

Speaker 2 19:29

But there was an incident in the beginning of our marriage where he this is in the book, but he almost got arrested and basically the next day it was like a turning point in his life. I think this was like maybe right before we got married or something like that. Anyway, he was a turning point in his life and the next day he just like went to church and basically that was the day he became a Christian and changed his entire life and God started really molding everything in the right direction. And we've done a lot of work. He has bipolar disorder and there's a lot that goes into where we are now, but I am so thankful we're in a really good place now and something I often say about him that he's helped me realize our day-to-day life.

Speaker 2 20:22

We live in the suburbs with the fence and our children and our dog and our jobs, and the phrase that I use in the book is called like the luxury of the ordinary, because he grew up in a trailer, in motels, being left alone, seeing domestic violence and drug deals, and so for him, like, having this ordinary life is such a luxury and a beautiful thing. And when he met me, despite my problems, for him to look at me and be like she has a drinking problem he didn't think I had a drinking problem, because he knew what a quote real drinking problem was. Obviously I had a problem, but like when he, you know, he grew up with this severe alcoholic mom who, like, ruined her entire life with alcohol. And so here I am, this functioning adult that drinks too much, but I'm okay. So he had a weird perspective on it too. Sorry, that was a really long-winded answer to your question, no but how.

Speaker 1 21:16

I mean also what a good example of this alcoholic substance use disorder. Whatever you want to label, it never looks the same.

Speaker 2 21:29

Right. Exactly it was let's see if I can articulate this well Writing that book Leaving Cloud Nine, and diving into his mom's addictions and all of her problems. That led me to write a bit about the opioid crisis and my freelance writing. I got really into researching that, obviously still ongoing today. At the same time, I'm dealing with this substance thing in a different way, maybe not quite as deadly for me at the time.

Speaker 2 22:02

Interestingly, just to add this in, I was also volunteering with an organization called Back on my Feet, which is a group that basically it's a running program and you run with guys that are in recovery from addiction. It's basically at a homeless shelter. They're staying there, they're recovering. You go run with them in the mornings. It's a really cool program as I'm running with.

Speaker 2 22:24

This 45-year-old guy has a completely different life, lives in the inner city, dc. We're so far apart, yet we shared this struggle of addiction. They didn't know that about me at the time, but we shared that. And then I'm writing about the opioid crisis. I said one time to my husband I was like I feel like God has almost allowed this struggle in my life so that I can truly have empathy and compassion for these people that I'm writing about and running with, because I really get it, and maybe not to the depths that others have gone, but I understand the opioid crisis and I understand how people can get to that place and it's made me much more compassionate, so I think that's a beautiful side of it.

Speaker 1 23:18

Oh for sure, I can totally see that Compassion is compassion for one thing. But I have a perspective when I see a homeless person on the side of the road where it's old me before sobriety. I didn't like her very much anyway, but I didn't have very good. I was like get a job, that kind of thought. Now I'm like what happened to you? That's my thought. I pray for them. Or what do you need? You don't know what to do in those situations. But it makes you realize that everybody has a story. Everybody's come to the place where they are because of what's happened in their life, whether it was your choice or not your choice.

Speaker 2 24:13

So yeah, I always think everybody was somebody's baby. I always think that and they were born and they were so pure and innocent and anybody that ends up on the streets like that or whatever that something awful has happened. Yeah, and I, if you feel so helpless sometimes, but definitely has made me a person of a lot more compassion, maybe, than I would have been.

Speaker 1 24:43

Yeah, I believe that to be true. It also works if somebody really makes you angry and like road rage or in a store, or it's just nasty to you and you want to lash out and you just have to think to yourself okay, there's somebody's child. That's what I always have to do they have a mother, somebody loves them, I guess and have to walk away, but sometimes that works.

Speaker 2 25:08

Yeah, and knowing that, having studied mental illness with bipolar disorder, there are reactions that people have sometimes that seem completely irrational or out of control. But having this kind of perspective, you can be like that's not who they are, Like I have this. This is kind of how it was with my husband when I met him and he would have these sort of moments and I would just be like that it's something else, Like that's not you, and he always says like that was really powerful to him. He's like you're the first person that really saw me for who I am and being able to have compassion for those kinds of things too, like even things that seem totally crazy or inappropriate, like nobody wants to be that way.

Speaker 1 25:55

So oh, absolutely, yeah, loving them through it. Yeah, good point, good point. So we covered the husband thing definitely.

Speaker 2 26:09

It comes up?

Speaker 1 26:10

Yeah, it did, and I was going to ask if it affected your writing, and it definitely did.

Speaker 2 26:15

Yeah.

Speaker 1 26:15

That you were writing about the opioid crisis, or I should say the opioid crisis. You mentioned that you got some support when you decided to get sober and stick to it. What was your biggest support?

Speaker 2 26:33

Well, it's almost crazy to me now, thinking back of how nervous I was for anyone to know, like, oh, I was like, oh, people are going to judge me, and then they're going to like I don't know, like, it was just so, like I can't tell anyone because, like, then if I do drink, then they'll be like judging me for drinking, and then like what if I? You know, just like all these thoughts and now I'm just so open about it that I'm like, yeah, like whatever, yeah, but you know, one of the first, I think the first sort of step into actual freedom for me was when I shared it with my small group. It was a small group. It actually wasn't through my church at the time, it had been like at a previous church and we'd all kind of dispersed to different churches but we kept our small group.

Speaker 2 27:14

So I remember I kind of timidly was like, well, I feel like I don't know, like I want to just say you know, and I got it out and I was like, but I feel really weird saying that because, like, this is church and you know, I remember my friend, lauren, who leads the group. She was like well, this is the place that you should be able to talk about it. So everyone was so great and I honestly you know it's so, you hear this all the time like Brene Brown, like you know, whatever her quote is about, like shame dies in the light, or something like that. Yeah, you know, I'm paraphrasing, it's so true. Like that was definitely like the first step to like the coming out of the closet, I guess.

Speaker 2 27:54

Right and just shining light on it which gives it hope, which gives it like life to have legs to actually change. And that was the first step. And I didn't get sober right away. It probably took another year and a half before that moment where it was like the last time, but it was the first time that really I said it. And then when I began to, when I started that last period of recovery that I'm still in, I had joined the luckiest club, which is Laura McCowen's online support. It's not a Christian community, so that's why I struggle with it. It gets very new, age-y.

Speaker 2 28:35

Sometimes They'll veer off into topics where you're like I regret this, but for the most part it did the job when I needed it too.

Speaker 1 28:48

Well, shameless plug here. That's why I started Joyful Surrender, because I was a part of one of those groups that I was getting so encouraged by that and listening to podcasts. That was because I was the same thing. I wasn't going to outside meetings and I wasn't in rehab, but I was so fascinated by people's how and what their motivation was and how listening. I mean, back in the day it was the bubble hour and that was it. I listened to every one of them and loved it, but I was like where's Jesus? Yeah, filling my mind with.

Speaker 2 29:23

I remember I probably bought five or six recovery books when I was like, okay, I'm going to get to six months. I was like, as long as I'm reading one of these, I feel stronger. I have so many. Yeah, I do too.

Speaker 2 29:37

I'm reading, I'm listening to the podcast, I'm going to the meetings I'm obviously in prayer about this, talking to trusted friends and hanging on All of that effort put together. It worked and I had been told you need to get to 90 days to really feel like you're not white knuckling it anymore. I just kept my eye on 90 days and I was just like I'm going to get to 90 days. I'm going to get to 90 days. Then, when I did, I was like, well, I started imagining just imagine, if you get to a year, you can put up this awesome Facebook post I know, talk about it and you can be like how could that be? As silly as that is? That definitely was part of my motivation, the little things that you just hold on to. I remember getting to a year and being like now what?

Speaker 1 30:32

This is a weird place to be Way braver than me, because I didn't want to tell anyone I wasn't going to post anything until I was five years.

Speaker 2 30:42

If you know, anything about me which, if you check out my stuff after this, you'll know that I'm pretty open about almost everything.

Speaker 1 30:51

Well, I was open about everything but that, because I still had this thing that I was going to go back to the way I used to be without drinking I just wasn't going to involve drinking.

Speaker 2 31:01

I gave that up that ideal pretty quickly because Well, for me it was like I couldn't find anyone, that no one had a story that I knew personally connected to. There was one lady that had a blog in the fitness world. Because I blogged and she had mentioned it, I was like what? Maybe she can help me. I was like I think maybe and this is way before but I was like I needed myself. I needed someone like me back then that was so accessible and I could just ask some questions to without feeling stupid, because people will try to convince you that you don't have a problem, maybe because they have a problem, maybe because they don't want to think about it.

Speaker 1 31:47

Yeah, that's why I wish, I so wish I would have been. I mean, I wrote a blog and published it and kind of hope nobody would read it and don't find it. But it's like there's young women like you that were looking for that, and it makes me sad to think that there's still so few that are talking about their faith, because when you talk about your faith in a secular group, it's like crickets in the background.

Speaker 2 32:17

Yeah, it feels weird. It feels weird. It's like people talk all about the universe and the energy Anytime someone would mention anything remotely Christian in those meetings. I was like. I'm like what If I would share? I had no problem sharing about my faith, but I couldn't you didn't feel comfortable sharing fully about your faith.

Speaker 1 32:42

Once in a while, I would drop my favorite scripture in the comments and it would be like no, like well, and a lot of people seem to have a disdain for organized religion, and no people grew up in negative Church environments.

Speaker 2 32:57

Sometimes maybe that's part of their trauma and so it's just like not a very welcome thing, which is strange, but yeah.

Speaker 1 33:06

Yeah, no, I get it, and it was. It was actually chipping away at myself esteem more than anything. I'm like, wow, nobody's talking back to me here, but it's probably not the right place for me that neither. But it also takes.

Speaker 2 33:19

You know, you got a girl out a bit too right.

Speaker 1 33:23

Yeah, but let's see. Feel like I had more questions for you, but I do want to quick talk about your book and we only have a few minutes left. So Reason to return why women need the church and the church needs women.

Speaker 2 33:38

It's a really good book and Tell me why you wrote it. Yeah well, it all kind of stems back to, honestly, this conversation because from my first book and, you know, learning about my mother-in-law and then writing about the opioid crisis, that led me, you know, as a journalist. That led me to a lot of data and statistics about how a faith community Decreases the risk of addiction and depression and suicide and even like your actual health, like heart health and stuff like that Friendships, relationships. I started running into this data and I was like I just don't think enough people understand like there is Healing and so much goodness in a church community. And it was very particular in that it wasn't like oh yeah, I go to church sometimes. It was like you are a member of a church, like you go on a basically a weekly basis, you have like a Real community within your church. That is what actually makes the difference in all of these factors. And then you know, simultaneously I was seeing statistics like actually women are leaving the church at faster rates than ever before. They're, they're catching up to men who have always left faster. And then I'm like, oh interesting, like women also have bias rates of depression that they've ever had and you know the relationships aren't going well and of course, there's a lot that could have to do with that, like the internet and cobit and all these things, but I knew that this is part of it.

Speaker 2 35:06

And I also knew that there was a lot of people not going to church, not because they hated the church, not because they were like, oh, christianity is hateful. It was because they just stopped going and they got busy and they started doing other things. And there were these other Places in life that like sort of pretended that they could feel that void for you. There was, like you know, these authors, like like Glennon Melton. You know her. She like books, yeah, there's like various female empowerment, self-empower, all this stuff like, so that sort of almost feels like it takes the place of like religion in a way Mm-hmm, but at the end of the day, we know that like that's never gonna be a Fulfilled by God-shaped hole that we all have, and so that's why I wanted to write the book.

Speaker 2 35:47

I wanted to say, hey, like, did you know this? And this is what church does, and this is why God created the church. He created us for each other. Here's why it matters, here is why it's worth investing in and why you need to think what do you really care about and what is this life all about? What am I doing with my life? And really getting back to what's most important to build your life on, and the church is part of that, part of a larger holistic. You know faith to look at, which I talked. You know more about that as well, but but, yeah, that's where it came from and I was able to share some of my story about the drinking in that Book, although probably more of that will come out in my next book, which is probably not gonna be out for quite some time, but well, we all look forward to it when we do, because the quitlet faith-based Recovery story shelf needs to grow as though almost none.

Speaker 1 36:40

Yeah, yeah, all three of them.

Speaker 2 36:42

So, um, but yeah, I would, I would love to, yeah, although I have I am thankful that I discovered a couple of them like your book, and then, um, caroline Biedler's book Downstairs Church is another one, okay. I also really like the book sober spirituality, which is written by a. She's an Episcopalian priest, so, okay, she and I are probably a lot different in our theology, but yeah. But the book is beautiful and I resonated with a lot of it.

Speaker 1 37:16

Well, I'll look it up and um Put the links in there too. Um, I know of a couple more that are coming out that I'll send you to oh yeah.

Speaker 1 37:26

I'm coming across more. So that's yeah, that's good, that's that's really good and it's exciting because it means we're showing up and we're getting braver, you know. But in the same way, that Nothing that we do should replace church. We talked about this a little bit before we started recording and it reminds me how Someone told me once that the best devotional that you have, the one that you get up because you are so excited to keep diving into it, should never replace your Bible.

Speaker 2 37:56

Right.

Speaker 1 37:57

Yeah, it's the same thing, Um your best Bible studies that you're going to doesn't replace church, like well. I did go to Bible study this week, so I probably don't want to.

Speaker 2 38:05

Yeah, and, and there was a big report in the New York Times Um last year about Like the power of community and basically, at the end of the day, like all the researchers, like these are not like Christian people. They were just like you know it would be nice if there was something that you know gave as much as a Faith community does inside of a church or or you know they were, were temple, but um, they're like, but nothing even comes close.

Speaker 2 38:31

Like you can't get it out of Girl Scout troop, you can't get it out of bowling league no I can't get it at any of those other places that are great, but like they don't, they are not um super naturally, you know, injected with God and his blessing.

Speaker 1 38:46

So yeah, no, so true, so true, so Well, the book is reason to return, and your first book was called leaving cloud nine, so I'll link that one too. Um, you can read about erica in. Um, let's see, I'm looking at the back of your book and you've written for the wall street journal, the washington post, and linked a lot of. They've asked for you for faith based articles, right, yeah?

Speaker 2 39:13

you've been able to.

Speaker 1 39:14

You've been able to use your faith in those publications.

Speaker 2 39:18

Yeah, I'm able to write about those things, which is really cool, and I do have a big article in the new york times about drinking. That is not faith based, but it is about women and drinking, and so that Is something you might want to link as well.

Speaker 1 39:30

Yeah, will you send me that, because I will post that actually. Yeah and Um, do you still have your podcast? I don't have my podcast.

Speaker 2 39:39

You don't have your, but there's lots of old episodes that you could go.

Speaker 1 39:43

Okay, I'm gonna link that too, because I'm sure everybody, everybody loves a good podcast. So you know, right, right, lots of good.

Speaker 2 39:50

I do have an interviews on there with annie grace and Uh, I forgot the girl's name but she has a program called sober mom tribe or sober mom's or something. Okay, anyway, there's a couple of drinking episodes on the podcast before I shut down.

Speaker 1 40:04

Yeah, hey, we'll find them. We'll find them so well. Thank you for your time, erica. We really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 40:10

Thank you so much I really appreciate it and, um, I don't think it's the last we're gonna hear from you, so thanks again, thanks for being here. I hope you enjoyed this conversation and if you know someone else who could benefit from hearing this or another she surrenders podcast. Please share this podcast. Let's get the word out about the miracle, faith-based recovery. So like, share, subscribe, review all the things that helped me get this into the hands of those who need to hear. Have a great week and we'll see you back here next time.