EP 73 | Ericka's Story: Faith, Freedom, And Freely Sober

What if surrender was the beginning of real freedom, not the end of it? Ericka Andersen—journalist, author, wife, and mom—joins us to share how she rethought alcohol through the lens of faith and rebuilt a life that’s joyful, clear, and deeply connected. Her new book, Freely Sober: Rethinking Alcohol Through the Lens of Faith, offers important insights on how women’s relationships with alcohol are shifting as they grapple with increased pressures at home and work, and her approach wisely utilizes faith as a recovery tool without positioning it as a cure-all. 

This is a candid, hope-filled conversation for anyone sober curious, stuck in the cycle, or longing to support someone they love. Tap play to learn concrete tools, hear hard-won wisdom, and feel seen in your questions. If this resonates, share it with a friend, subscribe for more faith-based recovery stories, and leave a review so others can find their way to freedom too. 

Episode referenced: EP | 53: Sobriety Through Spirituality

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Ericka Andersen is a journalist whose writing has appeared in Christianity Today, World Magazine, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and The Washington Post. She is the author of Leaving Cloud 9 and Reason to Return: Why Women Need the Church and the Church Needs Women. She lives with her husband and two children in Indianapolis, Indiana.

Connect with Ericka

Instagram: @ericka_andersen

Website: erickaandersen.com 

Get the book: freelysober.com

Get her free Sober Curious Guide: sobrietycurious.com

About the She Surrenders Podcast:

On the She Surrenders podcast we are talking about women, faith and addiction all on the same platform. There are many podcasts for women and sobriety, but very few for women seeking information and stories from others about faith-based recovery.   

Help us reach more listeners: like, subscribe, review, and share. 

Find us on Instagram @shesurrenders_sherry, on Facebook @shesurrenderssherry, and online at www.shesurrenders.com. 

Transcript

Welcome And Mission Of The Show

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome back to the Teeth Surrenders Podcast. I'm Sherry, and my heart behind this podcast is to bring you the excellent news that faith-based recovery is where you'll discover the joy in life you never thought possible while you were in the bondage of addiction. The stories you'll hear from women and sometimes men who have walked in your shoes or alongside someone who has will inspire you to pursue the same freedom they've found. This freedom comes from surrendering not only our addictions, but also our guilt and shame to God. Matthew 19, verse 26 tells us, with man, this is impossible. But with God, all things are possible. I pray that today's episode brings you to a new understanding that this is true for you too, because it is. Now, on to our guest. Joining us today is Erica Anderson. She is a returning guest. She was with us in March of 2024, episode 53. She had joined me then after we had talked. Um, I was in an article that she was doing for Christianity today about women and drinking and the church. And we had talked about her book then, Reason to Return, Why Women Need the Church and the Church Needs Them, which was a very good book, highly recommend. Um, she's got a new book out called Freely Sober Rethinking Alcohol Through the Lens of Faith, and it's phenomenal. It tells Erica's story of being a woman of faith or caught in the drinking life. Sound familiar? Very familiar to me. She is a kindred soul. She tells not only her story, but she talks about why, as she says, this dysfunctional coping mechanism is so difficult to break. Um from both her personal side and a professional side, because she is a journalist, first of all. And well, I shouldn't say first of all, she's also a Christian wife, mother, and loves the Lord. And she went down just like I did and many others. You're gonna relate to this so much. And there's lots of information in the show notes about her sober curious guide and how to get a hold of her and how to get this book. So without further talk from me, here's Erica. So welcome back, Erica. Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be back. Oh, it's good to see you again. And we're here today, especially because Erica's new book, Freely Sober, Rethinking Alcohol Through the Lens of Faith, recently came out. And I was reading the intro. And I love how you start out with Googling about alcoholism about 15 years ago, I think it was, and which many of us did. And I loved how you shared your examples were Johnny Cash and Walk the Line, Michael Keaton and Clean and Sober, and Nicholas Cage and leaving Las Vegas. All examples that I know about as well. But they were pretty much the only examples we had there for a while. And uh yeah, and there was no women.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Right. Yeah. I mean, I think I I want to say that I do mention later in the book um the when a man loves a woman, yeah. Uh sort of sole example of the woman having the problem in in terms of like the media and things. Um, but in general, yeah, men are really portrayed as the ones that struggle with this issue, which I think can honestly make it harder for women to feel like it's okay to say that they are struggling.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Oh, for sure. And when the men go down in these movies, they go down hard. And I mean, it's I honestly remember watching a lot of those movies and thinking, well, I'm not that bad, you know. So that, you know, and give myself a little bit of a pass. But um, all the things that we did, and um, we've talked about this before too, to convince ourselves that yeah, we're not that bad. So um, you want to start? You've been on my podcast before, and I mentioned that, but you want to start with a little bit of your backstory that led up to writing the book?

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Sure, yeah. Yeah, I'm I'm sure I got into a little bit more detail in the last um episode, but you know, I you know, from the outside looking in, I was just your, you know, at the end of this, uh your typical suburban mom who was working and um by all, you know, by all definitions, looked very successful and happy. And nobody would have ever said, oh, she has a problem with alcohol, you know, even to even today, um, you know, when people that maybe are just coming into my story that knew me long ago, um, will be very surprised. And family members uh were very surprised to hear this. And so um, for many years, 20 years or so since I started drinking as a teenager, um, I always felt it was unhealthy. Um, but then it was kind of like, well, this is kind of like an American like lifestyle thing. Everybody drinks, like you don't just not drink unless you, you know, have to quit because you do something horrible, you know. It just it felt like an impossible thing. It did not sort of calibrate for me that I could live a fun and happy life without drinking. Yet, of course, there in the background, it was like alongside a lot of those fun times were some really awful times and some really disruptive emotional things. Um, and then at the core of it, a conviction from God that this wasn't something that I should be doing to my body, to my mind, to my spirit, um, as a Christian or as a mom. Um, not because drinking is in and of itself a sin, but for the ways that it was controlling me and, you know, really stopping me from having a closer relationship with God and really growing spiritually as a person in so many ways. And so um eventually I got to the point of being able to stop after many fails and starts. Um, and now I'm five years sober. Uh, and throughout that five years, I began writing about my journey. As a writer, I tend to just put things out there, starting first on social media, then as a freelance writer, pitching articles to media. I landed something in the New York Times, a big essay in the New York Times in 2022. And that really kicked off, okay, like this is gonna be bigger than just sharing on social media. And it really gave me, I feel like, the motivation I needed to step forward into let's put a book proposal together and let's see what we can do because people are obviously interested in this topic. And so from there to here, you know, the book just recently came out and we made it happen, but um a little bit feels like a whirlwind sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Yeah, yeah. Well, you speak very openly and honestly in your book. And I and I was telling you before we started recording that one of the things I love about your book is that your professionalism as a writer, almost like a reporting, the reporting side of you um sharing the facts and um the realness of what addiction can do, along with your personal life tied into it, you do a really good job of it. And um that New York Times article, I remember that being a big deal. And then it was Christianity Today also that you wrote for. I think that's how we met, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Yes, I interviewed you. Um, I don't remember someone I I don't know if someone had sent me your name. I don't remember how I originally connected with you, but yeah, I interviewed you for that. And then I also last year got to write one for the Wall Street Journal, and then I've written a couple related in USA Today. So it's been like people are talking about this, people are curious and hungry about it, even and even, you know, not necessarily always people that are like, well, I have a problem, you know, but this is an ongoing conversation, not just for the addiction side, but obviously the wellness side. I think people are has getting more interested in sobriety just because they're seeing more research and more experts coming out and saying the impacts that it has on the body long term and really specifically the female body is very different than the male body. And we're seeing that there actually are more detrimental effects both in the short and long term. And I think that's got people's antennas up. And so when they see an article about it, they're kind of like, hmm, what is this? What does this say?

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Yeah. Well, and an article, articles, I should say, in so many credible resources that are taking that seriously, that are willing to print these things, you know, the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, Christianity Today, they're not looking at that and saying, you know, is this a thing or is this not a thing? Because if they're publishing it, they know it's a thing. And how many women, you know, do you hear the backlash from of me too? Um, you're not the only one drinking in your closet. And that's I remember for me hearing back from other women when I started writing about it, still being surprised. You know, that there's so many women, especially Christian women, that are hiding this.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

And yeah, um, it's well, it it feels like I think what it feels like is that you're not supposed to have a problem. It's like alcohol is a part of our daily lives, it's a part of weddings and celebrations and things. And so it's like, yeah, of course, this is fun. And and it and within the Christian community, at least in sort of uh the sort of more broadly evangelical or non-denominational type of space that I am from, um, it's just sort of been, yeah, this is a personal freedom issue. And so we just sort of don't really talk about it. Like we all know drunkenness is a sin, but like where the line is, that's kind of up to you. And moving along, you know, it's never expected that, like, hey, this might actually be a problem. And so if it is a problem, no matter how small or large, you're kind of like, well, I feel weird saying, you know, that I have a problem. And I think that was part of it for me for sure. And I also, you know, you always, I mean, this is always how it is, but you always wonder how people are going to judge you. Because the thing about saying you have an issue with alcohol is people do have a lot of assumptions about what that means. And you can't control their assumptions. And you're worried about what that means and how they are going to look at you as a person and like judge your moral character. Um, people do judge your moral. Sometimes they do. I think we're getting better. I think we're getting to a place where culture in general is better understanding that addiction is not just a character flaw, but it's taken a while to get here and it's still very ingrained in a lot of people's mindsets.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

Oh, absolutely. And besides the moral code that we're talking about, I feel like too, when you are going down that slippery slope of I think I have a problem, my drinking doesn't look like hers, we also ask ourselves the question, well, what's wrong with me? Why am I not able to control this and she is? Or um, well, certainly I can fix this. And that's when you go into, you know, the spiral of so long of trying to fix it yourself. But, you know, without the education too, of why this is happening to me and not someone else, or why am I addicted and they're not, it does go into a place of what's wrong with me. And that I feel like is where a lot of shame comes into it too.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Yeah, you know, I I always use this example or sometimes use this example of um, you know, there are people that, and I guess as I say this, let's remember that alcohol is a drug, but I'm kind of speaking of like the more harder drug in that sense. Um, there are people that can can try drugs for the first time, and even in that first time, there's something in them that sort of grabs hold and it they become addicted very quickly. Um, there are other people, like my husband, for example, who grew up in a very um drug sort of ridden environment and he did do drugs when he was a teenager and all of these things, but he never became addicted. And so it's like he didn't make that choice to be addicted or not. And most people are not making that choice. Um, that's not to say that we don't have choices when we choose to partake in something or even after we've done that in the aftermath of doing it. But I think, you know, addiction is so much more than um this personal choice that we've made it out to be. Um, and so I think it's so important to look at it in that, you know, just to understand that there are more components to this um than that. And uh, and and since learning that, I mean, that was so empowering to me because for many years, for me, it was like, well, you don't have enough willpower and you don't have enough discipline and you're not a strong enough Christian. And, you know, that was me for so many years. Like I really fully put it on myself. I didn't understand what addiction was at all. And though I wasn't the kind of person who was going, you know, because there are people that, you know, if you quit drinking cold turkey, you can actually die. Um, and I wasn't getting the shakes and I wasn't in that sort of mode, but I was addicted in the sense that my body craved it, my brain thought I needed it because I had sort of trained my body and brain to need that. And so there are different, also different components of what addiction looks like. And once I realized that it wasn't all my fault and that I actually couldn't do it alone, um, that this is not a just physical substance, this is a spiritual heart issue as well. I mean, heart, heart issue, you know, mind issue, all these different things. Then I started to realize that I had other tools that I could use. And I wasn't just like stuck in this black hole where I remained for so many years alone and not telling anyone because I thought it was totally up to me. And so getting getting out of that thought process was was was really the first step to getting free from this.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Yeah. And so you do you talk about it in your book, but when you did finally quit, what was the what was the game changer? What was the what did it finally?

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Well, I don't think it's ever one thing, you know, it's it's always an organic, holistic thing. Um, I love the word holistic. I I used it in my last book, which is called Reason to Return, and it's about church. And it's actually my last book is connected to this book because what led me to write Reason to return is finding all this data and all these studies about how people that go to church on a regular basis and has this have this consistent faith community around them have lower rates of depression, anxiety, they have more friends, they have lower rates of addiction, all of these positives associated with it. And um, and so I use the word holistic there in terms of like we, there's so many parts of us that need um to be loved and nourished. Um, and the church is part of that. And when it comes to uh this side of our lives, I think there's so much there too. So for me, it's like if you were to look at where's what's the pot of things that kind of got me there. I mean, it starts with, I think, years of praying and hoping that this could be overcome, even though it took me a long time to get there. It started with that faithfulness of holding on to that small bit of hope that I knew God could do this. Um, but I didn't get there right away. So it started there. Um, but then once I was able to kind of educate myself about addiction and also realize that a lot more people struggle with this than we know because number one, people aren't talking about it. And number two, it is an addictive substance. And so it's in it's meant to make you addicted. Uh and so it's like all this learning, you know, combined with, you know, the the side of me that continually held on to God. And then the, you know, the third piece maybe would be the community aspect, where I finally admitted and told my small group, I basically just as a prayer request, which was very hard and very uh vulnerable and like kind of felt like the hardest step. Um, really that I think is what began to move the needle. And ultimately I joined a group, a support group online. This was during COVID. And that I think was something that God used really powerfully in my life to show me, like, hey, like so many people are with you here, and you can use this as a tool to walk towards the better that I have for you. Even though it was a secular community, um, you know, I always say, you know, just because you're not a Christian, God created us all for community. Like as image bearers, we are all meant for community no matter where we are. And he used that group as a huge resource for me um to get me to where I needed to be.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Mm-hmm. No, so true. And your book, Reason to Return, was I gotta say too, I'm gonna plug it here. It was very pivotal for me at a time when we needed to get back to church. It was, it's such a good book. Highly, highly recommend it. Um yeah, very special.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

And I do remember you talking about in that book about talking with your small group and thinking, wow, that's I mean, I I had no idea it was gonna be such a big deal that I did that, but looking back, I can see how God used that moment. Like it just at the time it was like it happened, okay. But I can see now that's when the momentum began. And it was like almost like I opened up the door and I was like, let the Holy Spirit in to start doing work. And once it's out in the light, like Satan can't mangle it in the dark anymore. And so it's like you gotta like try to get to the point where you can do that because there's so much more good that can happen once you do.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Yeah, once you expose it to the light, I feel like it just loses so much power, so much power. And that's true, it's so much hindsight. I look at many things like that back in my life that some of those you can only see in hindsight that God was, I look at it almost like teasing out of you, you know, like just trust me, a little bit more, a little bit more, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

And when you did, good things started happening. And yeah, it's not always all right in one moment, you know. But yeah, no, good stuff, good stuff. Um, there was a chapter in your book um called Grieving the Lost. And um I was wondering if you would talk about that one a little bit because a lot of people don't understand whether you have a drinking problem or not, what that means. Um because we do tend to romanticize the relationship that we used to have and with alcohol. And yeah, it wasn't all bad, but it wasn't all good either. But I do remember saying to someone, I feel like I lost my best friend, even though she was an idiot.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Yeah. And you know, it can be that way. And I think I think that was a revelation for me to be like, oh, I can still, I can miss those times, and that's fine, and I can still appreciate some of those moments that I had with alcohol. Um, like, you know, I still have moments where I'm like, like, I really do like margaritas, you know. Um, I like the taste of them. I love the salty rim, you know, and I loved a pumpkin beer in the fall. And there was a lot of nostalgia that went with the all, you know, a lot of that. Um, and it is okay to recognize like that you might miss that or that you miss some of those times and to and to even Worry, like what's it going to be like? Um, I would say a lot of fears are overblown because you haven't done it yet. So you think it's gonna be awful. Um, but I think yes, permission to grieve and also to recognize that it's not just like, oh, like I'm giving this up forever. It's like, well, that was just a that was also just a different time in life. You also can't go back to college. You know, you also can't go back to um, you know, your late 20s when you weren't married and you had no responsibilities or mid-20s or whatever. Um, and you could just do whatever you wanted all the time. Like you can't go back to that and you can grieve the loss and also then appreciate still where you are and be glad that you are now a responsible mother of two, you know, and and and know that you wouldn't go back to that even though you had such good times. And so I think that is important to note. And um, and also, you know, in that as you begin to go to things without drinking, whether it's a concert or vacation, um, what I recognized is that we had we have intertwined alcohol so much with everything that we do that we've never been able to separate it out to say, like, was that really the thing that was like the magic? Was it really as magic as we think it was, or was it something else? And we don't realize that actually there's a lot of other things that were happening that made something special or fun. Um, but we've given alcohol all the credit, which is so sad because it's like not like it does, it shouldn't get all the credit. Maybe there was a few moments that it gets some credit, but like the majority of the time it's it's the people that we're with, it's the experience that we're having, or you know, the place that we're experiencing, you know, it's like, oh my gosh, why are we, you know, giving this alcohol guy so much when he's just sort of a side note?

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Right, right. And usually didn't end up making the evening any better, usually ended up hijacking it in a negative way.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Um yeah, and it's like, you know, to to and then to think of like a hangover. Oh my gosh, never have to have one of those again. Thank God. Yeah. Um, literally because we can. Yeah. I mean, and that's always your and we all, you know, we know from a hangover that is literally your body saying, This is poison, get this out of me, don't do this ever again. And so we should listen to our bodies. God made them that way for a reason.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Oh, for sure. Yeah, we just had so last weekend we had tickets to a comedian in town that we had both been looking forward to. And I don't think about alcohol anymore before we go out. We went out for a great dinner beforehand. I was looking forward to going to this place. I was looking forward to going to this comedian. It's January in Michigan, there's not a whole lot to do, so it was fun to look forward to a great date night out. We laughed so hard at this comedian. We laughed and laughed. And I said to Craig, I said, I don't remember laughing that hard in a long time. And he's like, I know. And I said, I feel like I missed all that when I was drinking. And he said, You missed a lot. You missed the details, yeah. I said, Yeah, but I at the time I thought it was a lot funnier. And I thought about it later and I thought, no, that was genuine laughter. Like I did not want it to end. Like I loved most of all that I was sharing it with him and that we were both laughing at the same thing, but yet I didn't have in the back of my head, can we get one more beer before they before they close, before you know what I mean? Like there wasn't all this drama circling around it, or is he mad at me for anything? There's nothing else to worry about.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

There's so, I mean, for me, I you know, I totally resonate with that. And I always say that, you know, one of the my favorite things is like if you ever, you know, if you're maybe newly not drinking and you are with a group of friends and you are having like a belly laugh, or like you're just truly something is hilarious, and you're just like can't stop laughing and you're totally sober. That is like there's nothing better than that. There's like nothing better than that. It's just like, oh my gosh, I I don't know. Like you're almost like, oh, I I can feel joy. I can't have fun without this. Um such a fun point when you experience that. And same, you know, for me with concerts, I've always gone to a lot of concerts. And I mean, I don't remember most concerts that I went to. I really don't. Like, I I remember that I lost my wallet at one and I almost got kicked out because I tried to pee in the corner one time with my friend. Like, we were like, the bathroom's too long. Let's go in, you know. And they're like, no, you can't do that, ladies. Um, you know, it's stupid things, but like I don't remember the music, nothing. And now when I go to a concert, I just like I really I hear it, I appreciate it, I experience it. And you look around and you will realize there's actually a lot of people not drinking, something that I never thought of before. I was always everybody drinks, like, no, actually, there's a lot of people drinking water, you know, liquid death. That's what they sell at all the concerts now. Yeah. And there's a lot, I mean, there's way more people not drinking than you realize. You just had your blinders on, and you just think everyone is drinking so much. Um, when really it's it's less than you think.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Oh, for sure. For sure. In fact, the last concert we went to, I said to Craig, I never noticed, but I think the performers are drinking more than what we're drinking, you know. Yeah. And I said, I don't, I don't think they realize how noticeable it is, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Like, I'm noticing.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Yeah, we're definitely noticing, and they definitely are too old to be drinking that much and try and pull up the performance.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

So yeah, definitely that would be, I've always thought how hard that would be to be a musician or to be a celebrity or something, because it that's the environment. Like, that's a party infested. You know, it's like that's what they do all the time. So I really feel for musicians who have struggled with alcohol or who are now sober, um, and how hard that would be to do. Um, after, and there's been a lot of them, like like Keith Urban, and like yeah, there's a couple other recent um musicians that I've uh that I've heard about that have quit drinking. Well, Tim McGraw, I'm a big country music fan.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Yeah, and I think that's why a lot of them, no judgment, they don't say they they're sober until they've got a couple years, like all of a sudden you'll hear like you know, so and so, and it's like, yay, good for you. And you're like they kept quiet about that.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Yeah, they don't want people because they yeah, they don't want people watching them, judging them, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

You know, um, it's it's gotta be brutal.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

It's gotta I can't imagine, especially because so many musicians talk about like how you know, if if you go into it and drinking is sort of like how you do it, it would be terrifying to be like, well, I'm not gonna do that anymore. And it's like, oh, well, that's like my whole thing. Um, so I have a lot of respect for people that are able to do that in that industry.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Well, there's you there's a lot of Christian music artists who struggle, and I'm sure recently come out that they're sober. And that I mean, I recently spoke with one of them, and I was like, wow, and had the I'm so grateful that they were able to, you know, admit it and they're using it as a testimony in their music. And yeah, that's huge, that's huge, but I think the pressure to perform has got to be unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

But yeah, and I I went to a Christian music concert, a pretty big one recently, and I it's at an event center where they normally sell alcohol, and I noticed they had all the alcohol like put away and like you couldn't order it. And I was like really thankful. I was like, you know, we just don't need that at a Christian concert. Um, people are gonna make bad choices when they're drinking, like there just are gonna be people like that, and we don't need to promote it. Um, so I was thankful for that. I don't know if that's the norm at Christian concerts. I don't know. I I'm usually at country music concerts, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

So yeah, yeah, I don't know if it is or not. Um one of the things that I wanted to ask you too was you know, you wrote about the church in your previous book, but how can the church, because this is a topic very big to me. Um I talk about it a lot too. How how do you think the church can do better in handling um this topic and talking about it more or providing help? What's your view on that?

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Yeah, well, I think not even just this topic, but I I share a story in the book of um speaking with a couple who is very involved with celebrate recovery, which is like the Christian sort of sort of AA, I guess, for lack of a better term. Um, and they had started A at their church 10, 15 years ago after the pastor of their church had sent out an anonymous survey and asked people to sort of basically just say, here are the things that we're struggling with. I'm not exactly sure what was on the survey. But what he found on this anonymous survey was a lot of people were struggling with alcohol and addiction, and he didn't know that. And so, because of the responses to that survey, he then was like, we've got to do something. And so that's how they ended up set um setting up celebrate recovery. And I just thought to myself, well, that's such a genius idea. I think every single church should be doing anonymous surveys because then you like it's anonymous. So people can be honest and then you can know what are the big things going on in this church, you know? And um, I think it's cool because each individual church, like especially if you are dealing with a smaller congregation, you can really tap into the things that they need and be praying over that and how God can lead you in terms of services and ministries. Um, and so I don't think most churches do that. And mine that hasn't even done that, I want mine to do that, but um, but the mine does is very open, like I speak at my church. So it's like I'm very open about my issues. So they're you know, certainly opening up the doors. But I think the thing is, is like people really need permission to talk about it. Um so it's like they need someone to say, this is something that a lot of people struggle with. If this is, you know, something that you would want to talk about or you are struggling with, like our doors are open. Um, because for me back in the day, I was never gonna go just like talk to someone about that at church. But if someone was like, hey, we're doing a small group on this, or hey, this is something we know a lot of women struggle with. Um, so if that's you, that's totally fine. We have no judgment, but like we want to pray for you. So I would have seen that as an opportunity, like, okay, okay, this is a safe place. I just think people automatically assume churches aren't safe places. I personally think that most of them are safer than the reputation that they get, um, but just because, you know, sometimes we hear really negative stories on the news, which are true. But I think most churches are not what you see on the news. I think most churches are like pastors on the ground that truly love their congregants and want to be there for them. They may not understand that this is a way they need to be there for them, but I just think we need to just give permission by saying things out loud specifically. And so that is one way I want churches to change and to just, I mean, I think part of it is just education. I I think a lot of people, especially if they don't personally struggle, they just don't know how big of a problem this is, or that people are scared to share. And so that's part of my mission in this with this book, and just anyone everywhere I go is to talk about this and to encourage people to get their churches on board in terms of just opening up those conversations and giving people a place to go or an opportunity to speak.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

As a woman who was in that, you know, yours was alcohol like mine. If the opportunity, if the invitation was specific to if you're a woman struggling with alcohol, come to this small group on such and such a night, we'd like to pray with you. To me, that sounds really intimidating. Um, but what if it was if you struggle if you struggle with a oh how does Rick Warren say it, hurt hang up or habit?

SPEAKER_02 31:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

You know, if we generalize it a little bit, do you think that would be a little bit easier?

How Churches Can Open Doors Safely

SPEAKER_01 32:01

I think I do think it would be hard for people to be like, come to a small group. But I think even just I think generally generalizing is is good too, especially if you're trying to get people to a group thing.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

Because you gotta at least build trust in the group.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

Right, build the trust. But I also think like even just mentioning it in a sermon or like having people speak, like for example, me, like you know, it's like or having people that are willing to go first. I I always say, like, I want to be willing to go first, because now that I speak in front of my church, people reach out to me and they'll want to talk to me privately. Um, so they're not telling other people, but they are telling me. And so I think if you could, are there people that are willing to be sort of the face of something? And if they are, that's gonna be huge. I know, like one person I just recently met with is like it was such a relief to her to be able to talk to me because she she's been going to my church and she um loves it. Um, but she's like, this is the one thing I haven't been able to talk to them about, like even though I love them. And she told me, and since she told me, she has now opened up and like told other people too. And it's like that gave the permission. So I think there are different ways to go about it. I also think every church is different, you know? And so you have to customize that to your circumstance and maybe try different things, like maybe something doesn't work and you're like, well, that didn't really attract any attention, so let's try it a different way. Um, but just being open to that.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

I think just, yeah, like you said, like having this representative. Like I've said to pastors before that the last thing I was gonna do was go knock on the pastor's study door and go, hey, can we talk? There's absolutely no way. Or request to come to the consistory meeting on a Monday night and say, so the hoppins have a pretty big problem going on, you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

There's right and for women, and for women, I mean, I think we're just in general gonna be wanting to speak to women, not not men.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

No, and kind of along the same lines, I've said to pastors, you need to have something posted somewhere or a number to say, if you're a woman struggling, we have a phone number. It's not for it's not for a rehab, it's not for a pressure, it's not for a meeting, it's just someone you can text and say, Can I talk to you? Because she's been in your shoes.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Right. That's a great idea.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

That's you know, that's a really good church should have an advocate. That's I mean, we have victim advocates for every everything else, you know. I mean, you think about if there was a pastor and his wife that had gone through what you and your husband had gone through, or what Craig and I had gone through. Say we were the face of the church, uh there would be no one in the church that was struggling with addiction that wouldn't be afraid to come to you as a couple because you're you've got it out there. But right, that's very rare for the pastor and his wife to be those people.

Anonymous Surveys And Celebrate Recovery

SPEAKER_01 35:08

So you've right, and they can't have that will be people. Yeah, yeah, I think and not everybody is called to that, you know. I think some people are, um, but I think that ministry teams having that intentionally at the forefront of their minds of like, are there people that have shared that you could ask to be an advocate, um, just like another volunteer sort of thing in the church, because we all sort of have our volunteer spots in the church, and maybe that's another one.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Yeah. I mean, keep us, we just want to pray with you, or this is how we got through it, or this is what we did. You know, you don't have to be a professional, but you can offer guidance and Christian love and support, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

So I mean, we don't we are, we do not have to be professionals to help. I mean, um, we want to, I mean, this is one way to just like be the church. Like we're just supposed to be the church to one another. Um, and just doing that is do is fulfilling that job, you know? And so I uh that's why I encourage people, you know, if they're if they are further along, like try not to keep it to yourself if you can help it at all, because it's gonna do so much good.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Yeah, tell someone, just tell someone, yeah. Oh yeah, no, good stuff. I like that too. Be the church, just be the church. I mean, be who God's asking you to be. Because honestly, too, if you're hearing this and you're like, I guess I could step up to that and be at the church and just quietly tell somebody I'd be willing to take a phone call. I mean, God intends us to use our pain for purpose. And this is a really good opportunity, and it's I mean, quite easy because victory on the other side of this is easy to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

It really is and you want yeah, it's contagious. You're like, well, of course I want people to to know this freedom because you know, I was once on the other side and I felt like it was impossible. And I wish I would have had someone like myself at that time, and I couldn't find them back then.

Going First So Others Can Speak

SPEAKER_00 37:17

Mm-hmm. Exactly. Yeah, they're still can be a little hard to find, right? Yeah. Well, before we end, um how do you think as a newly sober person, what's the best way to support as a family member? Um, I hear that a lot. What would you suggest?

Advocates, Safe Contacts, And Next Steps

SPEAKER_01 37:42

I I think the way that we can support people in our communities or church families or families, friends, whatever, um, is number one, I think just the educational knowledge of knowing that people mess up and relapse is very common. And not that we should hope for that or even expect it, but just like it could happen. And that is when people need you the most. Not not that you should like expressing disappointment in someone for a relapse is is really not helpful. Um, because just because someone relapses doesn't mean that all the work that they did before that didn't matter and that they haven't grown and that they aren't, you know, this much closer to finding, you know, real freedom from it. And so I would say like just that notion of understanding relapse and and and what that means. Um, I think that's a missing component. But, you know, just being opening up the opportunity to talk about things if they want to, but like not if they don't want to, not pressuring them to talk about things, you know? And then also um just I I think just recognizing that everyone sort of is on their own path here and you can't really interfere with that. And so you just kind of have to be there as a support and someone that is there to love. Um, obviously there are boundaries that come into place um when you're dealing with family members and things that you may have to put in, you know, that you may have to put into place. But I think really just um learning as much as you can about addiction so that you can be the best kind of support possible is is what you can do. Um, so I think there's a lot of misconceptions about things. And so the more we can educate ourselves about it, the better. Um, just like we would educate ourselves about, like if our kid had diabetes or whatever. Um, let's understand the complexities and come with grace, as much grace and compassion as you can have, because you have to remember that nobody wants to live in that. And so if they choose to go back to it um even temporarily, it's not because it's not because of a moral failing. It's because of something else, and it means that they need your support more than ever. So um, that was a little bit of a long winded answer, but it has a deep one. I do think it's a Important that we like make space to understand um how this works. And if we don't experience it, if if you don't experience addiction at all yourself, it's hard to understand, but it's important to try.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

One thing I say to families while their loved ones are at Sayla House is while they're doing the work to learn about how to live freely from alcohol or whatever their addiction is, it's up to you to do the work, to educate yourself on what it's gonna take to learn to live with them free from alcohol because this is a whole new ballgame. Everybody's new and you get to start over, and that's the beauty of it. But it's also they're not the only ones that need to do the work. It's it's a you know, it's a family effort, it's a friend effort, and um the biggest mistake that can be made is that they're the only ones that have to do anything.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

And yeah, and it's like it's maybe that's not fair. Maybe people think that's not fair, but it doesn't, it doesn't really matter if it's fair, you know? Because it's not it's if if you care for someone, um then you that's your responsibility as a person, you know, as a as a Christian. Um it's like you just have to be like, well, it's not fair what you know Jesus did for me, but that's what it all comes down to. And so it's putting someone else versus in this case um is gonna be so beneficial to them. It's gonna be you're going to be, um, I don't want to say you get all these blessings because of it, but like that is following the way of God in in helping them. And you don't know if God maybe is put you in their life as like a really important piece of their recovery. And so like let yourself be used in that way.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Amen. Amen. Oh, that's great. Good place to end. So the book is Freely Sober Rethinking Alcohol Through the Lens of Faith. What an excellent title. Um, Erica, where can everybody find you? What's the easiest way?

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Yeah, well, you can find the book at freelysober.com. A lot of more information about it, and you can order it there as well. Um, but then you can just um you can follow me on Instagram, Erica underscore Anderson. Um, and then I guess last little website is I actually have a little guide. Um, if you're curious about what are some good starting points, if you go to sobrietycurious.com, you can download a free guide, get some more info, lots of book suggestions there too.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Okay. I'll be sure to we'll be sure to put all that information in the notes too. So um, because that guide's a really good one. But anyway, thank you so much, Erica, for being with us again and best wishes on the book, and um, we will definitely be keeping tabs on you.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Thank you so much for having me, and I encourage anyone to reach out that feels like this resonated with them.

Families, Relapse, And Compassionate Support

SPEAKER_00 42:59

Thank you so much for joining me today. I hope you found encouragement and inspiration from what you heard here. If you know someone who could benefit from the She Surrenders podcast, please share it with them. Let's spread the word about the miracle of faith-based recovery. Don't forget, like, share, subscribe, and leave a review. Because when you do these things, it helps get the message to those who are seeking answers that can only be found when we put down our addictions and pick up the promises of a whole new life when we walk in recovery with the Lord. Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next time.