Bereaved But Still Me

Cycling Through the Pain

November 04, 2021 David Richman Season 5 Episode 11
Bereaved But Still Me
Cycling Through the Pain
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Show Notes Transcript

What can we learn from others who have lived through traumatic experiences? Why would someone bicycle almost 5000 miles across the country alone?

By the time David Richman was in his late 30s, he knew he needed to make a change. Overweight, sedentary, in an abusive and unhealthy marriage, David realized that he wouldn’t have satisfaction in his life without zeroing in on what he wanted for himself. He began setting measurable, attainable, and meaningful goals -- to become healthy, to raise his young twins in a safe home environment, to become a top performer at work, and to seek out his own physical, mental and emotional limits. 

David is a businessman, corporate and motivational speaker, and personal consultant. He is also the author of “Cycle of Lives” and “Winning in the Middle of the Pack.” 

Links mentioned in this episode:

David’s websites: https://david-richman.com/

and http://cycleoflives.org

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David Richmond:

Grief, turmoil, whatever, it can be if you let it be a jumping off point to higher places and the difficulties that we went through, provided some of the foundation for our strongest bonds, so I wish it would have gone a different way but I don't have any regrets about the way it went.

Michael Liben:

Welcome friends to the fifth season of "Bereaved But Still Me", the podcast formerly known as "Heart to Heart with Michael". Our purpose is to empower members of our community. How can trauma influence our lives? What can we learn from others who have lived through traumatic experiences? Today's program is "Cycling Through the Pain", and our guest is David Richmond. By the time David Richmond was in his late 30s, he knew he needed to make a change. Overweight, sedentary, in an abusive and unhealthy marriage, David realized that he wouldn't have satisfaction in his life without zeroing in on what he wanted for himself. He began setting measurable, attainable, and meaningful goals, to become healthy, to raise his young twins in a safe home environment, to become a top performer at work, and to seek out his own physical, mental, and emotional limits. David is a businessman, corporate and motivational speaker and personal consultant. He is also author of "Cycle of Lives" and "Winning in the Middle of the Pack". Today he is on the program to talk to us about how losing sister to brain cancer affected his life and how that trauma helped him to become the man he is today. David, thank you so much for joining us on "Bereaved But Still Me".

David Richmond:

Thank you, Michael. I'm very excited to be here and thanks for having me on. I'm looking forward to talking to you.

Michael Liben:

Let's start with you telling us about your childhood, specifically, how many siblings you grew up with, where you grew up, and how you felt about your childhood?

David Richmond:

Boy, I would say I have mixed feelings about my childhood. I grew up in the San Fernando Valley, which is in Southern California, outskirts of Los Angeles. Was raised by parents that had quite a difference in age. And that created an amazing dynamic. My mom was 21 when I was born, my dad was 59. So there was almost a 40 year difference in age between them. I had an older sister, she was year and a half older. And so we grew up in a household where one parent was kind of too old to deal with kids and another parent that was definitely too young and maybe a little angry that she had the kids to deal with her kids. So June and I definitely relied on each other growing up more than we relied on on our parents for sure. Yet, that was the kind of dynamic that was shaping who I was and how I grew up. I look at that as a time of me and my sister more than me and my family.

Michael Liben:

It's interesting. It's actually almost a generational difference between parents. Their outlooks would be completely different than when they grew up in what they knew.

David Richmond:

I can't even imagine at 56 marrying somebody at 18. Back then we probably weren't as even as advanced at 18. Imagine 18 in early 1960s, right? That was a very innocent, sheltered time, certainly compared to today. And so I mean, the age gap, I think is just made exponential because of the time of it. I'm almost 60 and I'm getting ready to do an Ironman Triathlon in a couple of days. My dad at 60 was having a newborn and he was old, he was old, old.

Michael Liben:

I remember my grandparents when they were in their 60s they looked so much older than I feel now, at the same age.

David Richmond:

And it's not denial, it's the truth. We are much healthier, and much more active and much more dialed in to what's going on around us because we have to be, than our parents and certainly than our grandparents were.

Michael Liben:

Well, speaking of being healthy and dialed in we heard in the introduction that you were overweight in your 30s and when you started to make changes to your life. Did you struggle with weight all your life before that or was that something you sort of settled in?

David Richmond:

And also michael I was a smoker too. I was a 20 year smoker. So I was an overweight smoker. So twice in my life I was overweight. Once in high school you know I really was an unhappy person, really wasn't I had no self awareness. I didn't even know I was overweight until I kind of figured it out one day by looking in the mirror and seeing how skinny I was and then I was just like "Hey, you're not supposed to be skinny." I just had like no self awareness. Later in life, in my mid 30s, I was in, like you had mentioned, a rough situation at home, a lot of stresses at work. Again, not being self aware not really paying attention to myself and one day when I just looked in the mirror I went, "Oh my gosh what the heck is going on with you, you need to make a change". And so that was brought on by a number of different things. I just looked at myself and said,"What the heck are you doing? Like, you've got to make a change".

Michael Liben:

When you say you are unaware of yourself. Is that because you were absorbed in your work or your family? It's hard to not notice yourself.

David Richmond:

It is in one sense and it isn't in another sense. You know, Michael, I was raised to try to please other people. If I could just get my mom not to be mad, if I could just get my teacher to think I'm impressive, if I could impress a boss or I can get a raise, or whatever. I was really, really worried about what other people thought of me, and how they perceived me and how I could impress them or how I might let them down. I really didn't ever focus in on me. And that's what that book you mentioned, that title "Winning in the Middle of the Pack" was born out of, is that I had never like worried about what I cared about me, I had always worried about what everybody else cared about me. So I'm not saying I was oblivious, but it just never entered my consciousness to know that I should worry about me.

Michael Liben:

We also learned earlier that you're the father of twins, and that you've been married. Tell us about when you got married and having twins and when you realized that your marriage was failing, and that you had to make a change for the health of your children.

David Richmond:

I was definitely in a pattern of trying to make other people happy. And that's what brought me to that marriage. And when I realized that I could not have any effect on another person's happiness, and in fact, I couldn't have an effect on any part of their personality. They are who they are. And I realized, "What the heck am I doing?" So, I was married to an abusive alcoholic, I had four year old twins. And I knew I needed to get them and me to a safer, less traumatic place. I'll tell you something super personal, how I knew the moment's clear as day, is we were involved in this fight. And she looked at me and screamed at me. And she said, "You know, I'm not your mother, you didn't marry your mother." And I went,"Oh, shoot. That's exactly what I did. All I'm doing is running around trying to make you happy, and I never will." Just like I was trying to run around making her happy, and I never will. Well, that's exactly what I did.

Michael Liben:

That's a hard decision. I think.

David Richmond:

I looked at myself like "How can you be so stupid? How could you not know you did that? They even look alike? What the hell is your problem?"

Michael Liben:

My mother and my wife have the same birthday.

David Richmond:

See, right? I just said, "Oh my god, how could you be that stupid?" And then once you realize that you're that stupid, you go, "Okay, well, you got to make it right". So I did decide that we needed to get out. We got out in short order, and went about repairing some of the self inflicted damage and other things that accompany that kind of a bad decision. But you know what, I'm unbelievably grateful. I have wonderful kids. They're 23 years old now. We've had a wonderful, wonderful life. I've been their primary caregiver for a long time. And obviously, they're off on their own. But I couldn't have asked for anything different because grief, turmoil, whatever, it can be if you let it be a jumping off point to higher places, and the difficulties that we went through, provided some of the foundation for our strongest bonds, so I wish it would have gone a different way but I don't have any regrets about the way it went.

Anna Jaworski:

You're listening to "Bereaved, But Still Me". If you have a question or comment that you would like addressed on our program, please send an email to Michael Liben at michael@bereavedbutstillme.com. That's michael@bereavedbutstillme.com. This content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The opinions expressed in the podcast are not those of Hearts Unite the Globe, but of the hosts and guests and are intended to spark discussion about issues pertaining to congenital heart disease or bereavement.

Michael Liben:

David, we were talking earlier about your sister and you said that she had been diagnosed with brain cancer. Can you tell us more about that?

David Richmond:

I had an up and down relationship with my sister I want to say that's nice that she did such wonderful things in over the years. Sometimes we saw each other a lot, sometimes we didn't talk for months at a time. Not because we weren't close, just because life gets in the way. But you know, when you get a phone call from somebody, and you can just sense what's going on. And I got a call from her. And she said, "I've got to talk to you. It's pretty heavy stuff." And I went "Aw no, what the heck." I just knew I knew something was up. And she said,"I don't know how else to put it, but I've got terminal brain cancer. And that's that." And I was like, "Oh my gosh." Because one of the things that I admired about my sister was she had done such a better job of getting out of the turmoil of our childhood than I had. She had a wonderful, happy relationship with her husband, wonderful job, tight circle of friends, two wonderful kids. She was just living her best life. And I immediately the end with it. But it's really never very nice. And it's really felt for this woman that had gotten past so much to enjoy so much out of life, and she was suddenly faced with the fact that she wasn't going to be around much longer. You can imagine that had a huge impact on me. Obviously would have an impact on anybody. But my perspective was that my initial thought was oh my God, you know, she has accomplished so much from the turmoil then to now be faced with having to realize that that was going to be taken away which in my mind, really pretty tragic. So we got really close, Michael. We spent a lot of time with each other, made a ton of phone calls to each other, talked through a lot of stuff. And it was really very, very hard. And I can imagine that losing a sibling wonderful that we were able to do that. But she had a rough go of it. And she, a couple years later, had passed on, and had to leave behind her husband and kids and friends. And it was really pretty tragic. It was not a lot of good that came from that I guess other than that, she was able to really spend some unbelievable quality time getting super deep and connecting at a deepest, most authentic way as one could with must be one of the most traumatic things you can face. their spouse and children and friends and family. So that was pretty much her journey. It's almost like losing an arm or leg just so much a part of you, especially in your case. So was she a catalyst for some of the changes that you went through? And if so, how did that work? Yeah, so I would say most definitely. And it's nice to acknowledge that because somehow it'll keep her memory alive, or at least keep the memory of her closer to my heart. And that she was, right? She was a catalyst for a lot of things. When I left home at 18, under not good circumstances, and I won't bore you with all the stories but found myself homeless and no money. The first person I called was my sister, right? When I got my first promotion to a Wall Street job where I was making unending amounts of money, who's the first person I called, it was my sister, right? When I had to fess up to the fact that I was in a horrible relationship, and I needed safety, and I needed to get out and I called my sister. So one of the things that is unique about a sibling, especially if it's just two of you, is that it's not just the person that dies, it's the person that knows you more than anybody that dies. And you can say the same thing about a parent with their child or child with their parent, it's in a different way. You know, I guess with a sibling, it's more like a peer, I couldn't look at my parent or a friend, and have them understand the difficulties of my childhood. But I could look at my sister, and we would, we would get each other.

Michael Liben:

I'm really glad you said that, because it sounds like you had almost a parental relationship with each other. Yeah, because you said when your parents weren't really there for you, it was you and her. So you were sort of like the father for her and she was the mother for you. But it seems like you all took on the position of those who didn't have.

David Richmond:

Sometimes we're lucky, you know, to think about the connections that we've had and that we've made. And then also, it can be a little tragic, because of those connections. If we lose somebody, then that connection is lost. So, I guess there are two sides of that equation. But, she was really a catalyst for me when it came to the "Cycle of Lives" project, because through her end of life time, I did some events that raised money, you know, in her memory and did some charitable work, and it put me around a lot of people that were going through the difficulty of cancer, and not just as patients, or survivors, but also loved ones, caregivers, doctors, professionals, whomever. And I noticed, Michael, that, especially when it came to cancer, that people were really good about dealing with the tasks of their cancer. "How am I going to get my next PET scan?""Who's going to watch my kids when I go to work?" "How can I navigate time off?" How can I navigate insurance?" blah, blah, blah, right? The tasks around it. But, when it came to the emotional side of it, people were not equipped to have really tough discussions and tough conversations, even with their closest loved ones. They just weren't able to do it. And it was a recurring and very, very obvious theme with almost everybody I spoke to, and almost everybody I watched. I said,"Man, I've got to try to help make this different." And, I didn't want to be prescriptive, like aw just because I was able to talk to my sister, I gotta teach other people how to do that. That was not it at all. I was just so moved by the fact that people are not equipped to have hard conversations about really difficult things, especially around trauma, especially around the trauma of cancer. That I said, "I got to figure out why I got to try to help people be better equipped to have these conversations." So she was definitely the catalyst there.

Michael Liben:

It's interesting that you're pointing out things that you've seen in other people, what did you learn about yourself and start making changes because of the death of your sister?

David Richmond:

The bad thing is is your show doesn't go on for weeks, because I don't want to bore you with all that stuff.

Michael Liben:

Well bore us with another couple of minutes we'd be happy.

David Richmond:

I mean, I learned a lot, right? I learned a lot. But I think the most impactful thing to me, as you get older in life, you kind of get set in your ways, you kind of have your mind made up about people, about things, about situations. And I was somebody who probably came to interactions with people at all different levels, and all different situations, kind of packed with what I thought was going on. And what I've learned through this book, and it's over several years that I've been working on this project, is that I really don't know what the heck is going on with anybody. And that is important, it's important to know that you have no idea what people are going through, what they have gone through what they might be dealing with today, or what they might be dealing with 10 years ago, that's affecting them today. You just don't know. And I think it's a humbling thing to know. I feel like my connections with people are more authentic and deeper. Because I don't know everything. I don't know that I acted like a know it all. But I don't think I was as open to the idea or had a depth of understanding of that concept of we never know what people have gone through or going through. And when I did this book and I got, Michael, as deep as you could imagine, getting with many, many people 15 ended up making the book, but with as many people and things that we uncovered together, that nobody had any idea that they were dealing with, were just amazing. So that's the number one most important thing that I've learned. Not as a cliche, not being trite, like, "You never know what people are going through." We really don't. And that's a heavy, heavy thought to bring into our interactions with people. And one that could allow us, once we realize that, to just take a deep breath, listen better, talk better, and realize that if our goal is to make these deep connections with people, and I think, most people, that's part of their goal in life, is we got to understand that's the number one driver there. We just don't know what they've gone through.

Michael Liben:

That's very, very true. Some days I meet people and I just want to like scream, don't you know what I've been through how you talk to me like this. And then I realize I don't know anything about them. And I could let something slip something conversational, or something, just some standard reaction to somebody else's anger. I don't know what I might be stepping on. That's something I'm beginning to learn now.

David Richmond:

Yeah. And you know what you know when you know it, right, Michael? I mean, I do if you've gone through any type of loss, or any type of dramatic event that has given you some perspective on life, you have to realize that you got to forgive yourself for what you didn't know at the time. And to continue, it's so heartwarming for me to hear you say you're learning that because I'm learning stuff all the time. And to know that you could still learn something as powerful as the fact that maybe I should have a deeper understanding that, there's more behind the curtain that I know is a wonderful, wonderful thought to have.

Michael Liben:

If you've enjoyed listening to this program, please visit our website heartsunitetheglobe.org, and make a contribution. This program is a presentation of Hearts Unite the Globe, and is part of the HUG Podcast Network. Hearts Unite the Globe is a nonprofit organization devoted to providing resources to the congenital heart defect community to educate, empower, and enrich the lives of our community members. If you would like access to free resources pertaining to the CHD community, please visit our website at congenitalheartefects.com. For information about CHD, hospitals that treat CHD survivors, summer camps for CHD families, and much, much more. Recently, you released your second book, "Cycle of Lives". Tell us about the impetus for that book, and what makes it so special.

David Richmond:

The impetus is that I wanted to help with this idea of understanding why we're not equipped, why we don't have the language to be able to connect with others about the pain and trauma of things they're going through or have gone through, especially as it relates to cancer. And the way I've wanted to frame it Michael was this: Point A is when you encounter cancer, might be as a six year old when you have a parent that has cancer, might be as a 40 year old, when you have a sibling or a child with cancer. It might be as a nurse, point A is when you encounter cancer. Point B is today. How did you or how have you not navigated the emotional side of that journey in relation to all the traumas that happened before point A? Does that makes sense? So, the reason why I wanted to do that was because all different types of cancer, all different ages, all different relationships with it, one and done had it your whole life. There's a wheel of emotions related to it. What I wanted to try to do was to frame that in a way that if I could show all these different perspectives in a storytelling way about real people who had gone through things that we have all gone through; abuse, abandonment, suicide, making bad decisions, being dealt bad cards, whatever, then I can identify with them. And if I could identify with people and kind of understand a 360 view of what they've been through at a deeper level, and then I could understand how they navigated that point A to point B, then I can maybe bring that knowledge to my own life, and be able to have more authentic, real, more connecting conversations with the people around me. And, that was the whole idea behind the book. I know I was able to accomplish that, because I've got doctors and nurses telling me "I had no idea what my patients were going through." I've had patients tell me, "I had no idea what my doctors were going through." I feel like I've brought these real, raw, authentic, moving, evocative, inspirational stories to people, and that it has given them a little bit more of that insight into that major thing we've been talking about, what the heck are people going through, or what have they gone through? And how can I, knowing that, better connect to them? A lot of people say that a book about people's cancer, people's loss can be quite pessimistic or depressing. And I'd say the opposite. It can be quite inspirational, and moving and optimistic. And I'll take for example, Bobby's story. So Bobby is somebody we can all identify with. Not lovable and didn't know how to love. Just going through life being a bully, and a brat because he doesn't know how to accept loving and doesn't know how to give it. He finally meets Brandi, who, as he puts it, lets him see the world through a new set of glasses, right? First time ever. And, he becomes the best Bobby you could ever imagine, a lot of that with Brandi's help. Shortly after they meet, Brandi develops breast cancer. In fact, he gets to know her best as she's sitting in the chemo chair. And they developed this wonderful love for each other, they realize that they're destined to be together. He proposes to her, and right before they get married, the breast cancer comes back aggressively. They go on a honeymoon. They come back and she goes through just a horrible ordeal and about 18 months later passes away. But, there's more to the story. Near the end of their journey together, they had talked about everything you can imagine talking about. She promised Bobby, "You've got to go to therapy, you've got to put this into perspective". They talked about everything A to Z and became okay with it. And it allowed him the freedom and empowered him with the tools to be able to move on with his life. And not too long after Brandi died, he reconnected with somebody in his past, they formed a friendship and then fell in love and are still married now. They do an event every year in Brandi's honor. And he said to me, "I'm the happiest I could ever imagine myself being." He goes, "I wouldn't trade my life in for one second. If Brandi didn't die, we'd be married, we'd be as happy as I could imagine we'd probably have kids, I'd be living like an unbelievable life." And he put it simply he said, "But that didn't happen. But I am the happiest person I could ever imagine. I wouldn't trade it in for a second," he goes. So I'm thinking of myself, as I'm talking to him, what's it's like to lose the love of your life? Well, it's horrible and tragic and terrible. But it could also be a springboard because it was going to happen. And they both used it as a springboard for him to continue to see this world through a new pair of glasses. And how optimistic and wonderful is it that she gave him these tools, that he accepted these tools that he worked on himself, that he allowed himself to move forward, he allowed himself to move on, he allowed himself to be loved and to love again, and to be okay with the way his life is going, so much so that he wouldn't trade it in for a second. And I think that that is such a beacon of hope and inspiration, obviously wrapped around a lot of tragedy. But the stories are like that. And they're not as simple as I explained that that story. They're a little bit deeper, but that's one of them, an example of the 15 stories that are in the book.

Michael Liben:

Well, we've often talked about post traumatic growth. And clearly you've uncovered these stories where people have taken what has got to be the lowest you can fall and somehow use it to to rise up above it and in such beautiful ways. And I really I hope people get this book. And here's your opportunity now to tell us a little bit how to get this book. Where is it? Also tell us about your availability as a speaker?

David Richmond:

Well, thank you, Michael. Well, first of all, there's two goals with the book. The minor goal is to raise a little bit of money. So 100% of the proceeds from the book, anything that comes to me goes out to the cancer specific charities that were chosen by the book participants or their survivors. So that's a good thing. We got a lot of different great organizations. They're listed in the book or they're listed on my website, cycleoflives.org. So that's the one minor goal, the major goal, of course, was to better empower people to have these hard conversations. So, they can find the book wherever books are sold, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, local bookstore, giant bookstore, wherever books are sold, the book is there. It's done really well. It's wonderful to get good reviews and know that the books touched people. So, if they're interested to find out more about me and some of the things I'm doing, they could go to cycleoflives.org, and or just do yourself a favor and read the book and maybe go,"This is how I can better connect to the people in my life that matter to me", because, really, in the end, that's all we want to do.

Michael Liben:

What do you think is the most important lesson that you want people today who are listening to take away from hearing this?

David Richmond:

If you have one lesson, I would say, if we're fortunate enough to whenever that happens, if we're fortunate to know that at the end of our lives, that we have done everything we can to form deep connections. So I feel like Michael, at the end of our lives, we have two paths, right? We have one thought is the joy and the gratitude we feel for the connections we've made. And then we also have the grief and the regret for the connections we didn't make, right? That's it. That's what it all breaks down to you know. Who brought you joy? And who do you regret that you weren't able to bring each other joy? I would say that the lesson is, if you are intent on making these deeper connections with the people that are in your life, then the way to do that is to develop a better way to talk to them through the difficult things that they're going through. not allow them to isolate, make sure that you don't abandon them. And just take a deep breath like you do with active listening, and asking good questions, and forming a bond, doesn't always have to be heavy, but it could be certainly can always be deep, and authentic and real. And that's the lesson I'd like to take is that we don't have that much time to do that.

Michael Liben:

Well thank you for that. It's a lesson I think we all need to think about. That concludes this episode of"Bereaved But Still Me". I want to thank David Richmond for sharing his experiences and wisdom with us. Thank you so much for joining us.

David Richmond:

Thank you Michael, I really enjoyed it. I really love what you're doing. For years you've been doing it now you're bringing a lot of help and a lot of education and inspiration to people, so please keep doing it.

Michael Liben:

Well, I hope so and you are too. The book is called "Cycle of Lives", and it's available wherever you buy books. Remember 100% of the proceeds will go to fight cancer. Please join us at the beginning of the month for a brand new podcast. I'll talk with you soon. And until then, please remember moving forward is not moving away.

Anna Jaworski:

Thank you for joining us. We hope you have felt supported in your grief journey. "Bereaved But Still Me" is a monthly podcast. And a new episode is released on the first Thursday of each month. You can hear our podcast anywhere you normally listen to podcasts at any time. Join us again next month for a brand new episode of"Bereaved But Still Me".