Be Part of the Change Episode 7: Supporting Students with SpLDs - with Batul Daulby and Danial Shaikh

The built environment comprises a diverse and exciting range of sectors, but there is still a lack of representation at every level. We want this to change.

‘Be Part of the Change’ is an awareness campaign with the purpose of celebrating the incredible success stories of our under-represented students, apprentices and alumni, as well as highlighting their challenges.

It’s also an opportunity to highlight the positive practices our employers are actioning within their organisations to inspire other companies in their approach.

In the seventh episode of our Be Part of the Change podcast, Danial Shaikh, Student Officer for Disability and Mental Health and Apprentice at UCEM, is joined by Batul Daulby, Principal Education Psychologist and Founder of CF Psychology.

The topics discussed in this episode include:

• The early signs that a student may have an SpLD
• Where students should go to seek help
• The common misconceptions of SpLDs
• How friends and family can support SpLDs
• Batul's tips for educators and employers

Transcript

[00:00] Aysha: Hello and welcome to the Be Part of the Change podcast. This is UCEM's new series that will explore the challenges and success stories faced by those from underrepresented backgrounds in the built environment. In this episode we are joined by Dr. Patul Dalby from CF Psychology. CF Psychology provide remote online educational psychological assessments for eligible students here at ucem. Assessments are compliant with the Specific Learning Difficulties Assessment Standards Committee and can identify the four specific learning difficulties which they recognise. These include dyslexia, dyscalculia, dyspraxia and adhd. For some of our students, having an assessment with CF Psychology is the first time they are aware of a difference in their learning profile. Having been through school and previous education without receiving specific support for an spld. Assessments with CF Psychology can lead to personalised and tailored support being implemented at UCEM to support our students in their studies, allowing them to achieve their potential and understand their unique learning style a little better. Assessments can also be the gateway for funded support such as Disabled Students Allowance or support offered through ESFA funding for apprenticeship. This can provide students with one to one mentoring, assistive technology and equipment to support them in their studies. UCEM have partnered with CF Psychology to provide part funded assessments.

[01:42] Danial: Hi everyone, I'm Danial, a student officer for Disability and Mental Health here at ucem. This episode is being recorded as part of Neurodiversity Celebration Week and today I will be joined by Dr. Patul Daulby from CF Psychology. Hi Patul.

[01:57] Patul: Hi Dan.

[01:58] Danial: Could we have an introduction to CF Psychology? Maybe an overview of who you are, who the service is for?

[02:06] Patul: Yeah, sure. So CF Psychology are an educational psychology practice and we specialize in neurodiversity diagnostic assessments. So we assess for specific learning differences, things like dyslexia, dyscalculia, dyspraxia, adhd. And really we are a practice for everyone. We work right the way through the age ranges from, you know, childhood right through to mature adults. But I would say that in recent years a lot of our work has become focused on the HE sector where there appears to be a lot of need and demand for these kinds of assessments. So we work with around 65 universities we have partnered with and we provide assessments for their students. But we do also work with schools, apprenticeships, employers to provide assessments for workers. I guess our sort of passion in CS Psychology really is to play our part in achieving great outcomes and good outcomes for people with learning differences. And we do that through giving access to identification and then support that follows afterwards. So yeah, that's what we do perfect.

[03:27] Danial: Is there anything specifically you can provide for the students of you, Sam?

[03:32] Patul: Yes. So I think one of the main things that we provide, often people can feel a sense of anxiety or trepidation before an assessment. But what we do provide in all our assessments is a very safe and supportive assessment environment, which is really, really important for people to be able to share their experiences and have their needs sort of understood and identified. So I think that's an important thing for people to know about what the assessment is like. And we do always gather feedback from students about their assessment. And I think overwhelmingly, one of the things that comes through in the feedback is people speaking to that and saying, actually they found it an extremely sort of positive and containing experience. The other thing that we provide is our assessments for students predominantly are done online. That has been something since the pandemic that we have been able to do. What that allows us to do is to provide a very flexible access to assessments. So the assessments run seven days a week from morning until evening. So students are free to book an assessment at whatever time suits them. And it also means that they can carry out the assessment in a comfortable environment for them. They don't have to travel anywhere and have the sort of stress of getting somewhere. And also, you know, a lot of students are working as well. They've got quite hectic schedules. So I think that flexibility of appointments that we get from being able to provide the assessments online is really beneficial. And it also means that we can keep our waiting times really short, so you get quick access to an assessment. What else do we provide? Well, I would say that we have years of experience of working in this field, so we are highly expert in what we do. So we are able to provide you with answers, so you're going to be able to go away with a clear answer about what is going on for you and whether you do have a specific learning difference. One of the, I think, is a unique feature of our assessments and our assessment model is that in one assessment, which usually lasts around two hours, we are able to look at all the different sblds that exist. So dyslexia, dyspraxia, ada, we look at all of that in one go. So we've designed quite a sort of elegant assessment model, really, that enables us to do that. It's because there is so much overlap between these different sort of labels, we feel that it's really beneficial to be able to look at everything in one go, rather than having to send people off to go and have like another assessment, which is Obviously like adds more time and cost. So the assessments are kind of holistic, comprehensive. And although there is a fee attached to them, we do work very hard to make the assessments as affordable as we can possibly make them. Again, to sort of increase people's access and reduce those financial sort of barriers that can be there for people. And the other thing that we would provide, we provide for your students when you have an assessment is because we're able to give you a clear answer. If the answer is that you do have an SBLD or that you are neurodiverse, that is going to give you evidence of entitlement to things like reasonable adjustments, such as exam arrangements or alternative assessment arrangements, and also for disabled student allowance as well. So those are the main benefits, I would say.

[07:27] Danial: That's great. So is there any other resources that you'd maybe suggest for students with SPLTs?

[07:36] Patul: So I think once you, if you are identified with having an sbld, there are the immediate resources and supports that you're going to get access to via disabled Student allowance. There will be things like assistive technology or maybe sort of human help in the form of coaching or non medical helper. So there will be those sorts of resources. And then also in your studies you would have the option of things like alternative assessment arrangements just to level the playing field. But going beyond that and just thinking more generally about kind of resources that are going to empower you on your way now that you know what is going on for you. One of the things about having an SBLD is that you're learning in a neurotypical environment and the teaching methods that are used are sort of teaching methods that work really well for neurotypical people. But you're very likely to have experienced barriers in your life to teaching. And in reality probably those are going to be ongoing, you know, through, through your life as well. You're going to face these sort of barriers. So I actually think really learning about learning because teaching and learning, there are two facets. You know, teaching can take place but yet learning might not take place. And equally learning can take place without necessarily you there being teaching. So I think as a neurodiverse learner, I think you can really empower yourself by doing things like listening to podcasts, finding out about human learning. How do our brains learn? How does my brain learn? So I mean I myself am neurodiverse and I, a personal resource that I find really useful has been listening to things like the Huberman Lab. The Huberman Lab has got loads of sort of science based Podcasts about all kinds of things to do with health. But also he seems to be really interested in learning. So there's lots of really excellent podcasts on there, all about little techniques that you can use as a learner to really optimize learning. I would say I found that incredibly useful for myself. I think also another thing that's very useful in a general way to learn about is things like TED talks by people like Carol Dweck about the growth mindset. I think if you are neurodiverse, you need to be resilient because you're going to face challenges you will already have had knocks and, you know, things that you've had to overcome in the past. So I think, again, learning about the science of resilience and how you can. How you can steel yourself and be resilient is really worthwhile. And then just practically, I actually find the bda, the British Dyslexia association, it's not just for, if you're dyslexic. It's really for all neurodiverse people. They have access to, like, community forums and just lots of really useful resources and advice for people who are neurodiverse. So I would say those are the things that I would guide, want to guide people towards.

[11:10] Danial: That sounds amazing. Yeah. Is there any early signs maybe that would indicate a student has an SPLD within.

[11:18] Patul: Within university? Yes. I mean, some people will, you know, have the benefit of entering higher education with their needs already under, sort of identified, but many, many don't. And I could go into the reasons why that is. But, you know, for whatever reasons, people often enter higher education without having their needs identified. What they may well encounter. The first sort of things that they might notice is that it's taking them longer to do things than their peers. So, for example, if they're having to prepare for an assignment, you've obviously got to, you know, read a lot, do your background reading. That might be something that. Well, that is certainly something that we, we find that people will often say that they've noticed. You know, I'm getting good grades, but I'm noticing that I'm having to do double, triple what other people are doing. So I think that would be one of the signs. I mean, the barriers may be all kinds of things. They may be dyslexia. It may be because it's taking you so much longer to decode those words on the page. It may be adhd, because actually you're just not able to focus and plan. And, you know, studying in higher education, it puts particular demands on your executive functions. And so as a result of that, your SPD might not be highlighted really until you hit higher education. I would say that those are the main two. I mean, obviously what you'll have is concomitant things like mental health then. But I think those mental health, those sort of low level kind of mental health concerns, low mood anxiety, they are stemming from the other difficulties that I mentioned there before. It's the frustration and the sort of maybe sense of like inadequacy that you just don't find that you're able to do things as well as others. Oh, another thing I would mention is if you're having difficulty in taking notes, that is a really, really common issue that we find across the splds. And of course that's another thing that starts to become a really important skill by the time you hit he, you are really expected to be, you should be an autonomous learner. So things like the note taking, reading around your subject, all those sorts of things are going to be really, really important.

[14:02] Danial: So students may recognise that they have some of these indications. How would you advise about them seeking help? Is there someone they should go to? Is there a website they should maybe go onto and access help? And now, are there any common misconceptions about SPLDs that you encounter?

[14:22] Patul: Well, I think the first thing to do if you are experiencing these difficulties would be to reach out to the disability team within ucem. I would say that first level of having, before you immediately dive into having an assessment, having a conversation with somebody who can advise you and then guide you towards the appropriate service for you to have an assessment. There's many sort of common misconceptions. I mean, in terms of sort of from the outside world, there can still be a misconception that, you know, people with an SPD are not going to be, are going to be less successful and are not, are going to, you know, not be academic, you know, and that's just not the case at all. And that's why I think it's so important for there to be this big conversation that's going on at the moment. And for people, for example, like myself, sort of self disclosing that I am neurodiverse. I mean, I, you know, I've, I've done a doctorate, I've, I've achieved academically and there's many other, many other people I think, who are also starting to sort of talk about this. And so I think that is helping those very negative sort of pejorative discriminatory attitudes that can still be out there in terms of sort of misconceptions. I mean, I think another misconception from out there can often be to sort of maybe pigeonhole people who are identified as neurodiverse into certain categories. Like, you know, oh, if you're, if you're dyslexic, then you are a visual thinker or you know, if you have ADHD then you are creative. I mean, I suppose those are like positive stereotypes, which is better than a negative stereotype. But I still don't think it's actually accurate because at the end of the day everybody is an individual. And I think part of what can make you special when you have an SBLD is understanding what your unique strengths and abilities actually are and learning how to actually use those. And those strengths and abilities that you might have might be completely different from that sort of positive stereotype. So yes, I think those can be another misconception from the sort of outside, from the inside, from people who have not yet been identified but who maybe are neurodiverse, who've maybe heard about it, you know, often where people tend to hear about neurodiversity and these different sorts of diagnoses, dyslexia, adhd, dyspraxia, they'll often hear about them on social media. I mean, I think that's been a brilliant thing in terms of actually raising awareness, starting this big conversation. I think one of the downsides of it is that, I mean, take for example adhd. I think most people experience attention difficulties. It's just a normal part of the human brain. Often people will hear something on TikTok about attention difficulties related to ADHD and they identify with that and then they can sort of self, self diagnose with adhd. But actually it's not necessarily that those attention difficulties that you're having are being caused by adhd, but then it can give somebody that sort of expectation that that is what is going to be the outcome of an assessment. And actually what we might find in an assessment where we're going to be able to give you a sort of accurate scientifically based diagnosis is that actually there's another cause for those attention difficulties or maybe those reading difficulties that you're experiencing. So I think it's important to be aware but also keep a sort of, you know, an open mind.

[18:39] Danial: Yeah. With adhd, any difference between a non medical diagnosis and a medical one?

[18:49] Patul: Yeah, that's, it's, it's a really good question. The principal difference, I would say is the kind of support and resources that you're going to get access to. And put simply, a medical diagnosis will give you access to medication if that is appropriate for you and for some people it is contraindicated and not appropriate. Whereas a non medical diagnosis will not give you access to medication, but it would give you access to non pharmaceutical support with your studies or in the workplace. So that would be for adhd, that would be things like coaching, alternative access arrangements and reasonable adjustments. That is the main difference in terms of what the two different diagnoses would give you access to. There's also differences in the process, in the sort of the assessment that you would go through. So if we started with the sort of non medical assessment, so our assessment for example, will look at all four SPLDs. If the psychologist feels that ADHD is strongly indicated in your profile, they will, within the assessment they will do what's called a clinical interview. So what that means is that they use a special kind of psychological tool. It's a clinical interview which looks very specifically about whether your attention difficulties, because you are experiencing attention difficulties, but do those attention difficulties actually marry up with the symptoms of adhd? So it's going to look at that and it's also going to look at what the impact of those attention difficulties are on you. What the assessment will not do is go into an evaluation of your mental state or it doesn't do an in depth analysis of mental health difficulties that you may have and it also doesn't look in any kind of depth at your health, but it will say whether you are experiencing the symptoms of ADHD and it will gauge the impact of those upon your life. Of course, with that assessment you get quick access to the assessment because you know, it's a short waiting list. A medical assessment will be overseen by a psychiatrist. So in our assessment, non medical assessment is done by a psychologist, either an educational or a clinical psychologist, but with a medical assessment it is overseen by a psychiatrist and it will involve a very in depth review of your mental health and also a sort of mental state exam to sort of look at other potential sort of comorbid mental health difficulties that you may have. The psychiatrist will look at your medical records and maybe want to liaise with your gp because they're going to be wanting to evaluate your suitability for medication. So they're going to have to look at things like health conditions that you might have that would preclude medications. So things like heart conditions, tic disorder, things like that, which would mean that medication wouldn't be suitable. And of course, as we all Know, the waiting list for these assessments within the NHS are very, very long and it's because of the fact that you have to have sort of have psychiatry involved in those assessments. You can have a private medical assessment, but you are looking at quite a high fee. And even the private providers now are starting to have waiting lists. And if you go with a private provider, the other thing that you should be aware of and that you should ask about, if you go for a private provider for a medical ADHD assessment, is you need to ask about what you might. So you would have to pay the fee, obviously, to have the assessment, but then they. If they prescribe medication, they have to type, go through this titration process where they get the dose of the medication. Right. The GP would not do that for you. It's very specialist. So you usually have to pay for the psychiatrist's input over that period. So you could be looking at quite, quite a lot of cost, which is very unfortunate. But that's the situation that we're in.

[23:41] Danial: Yeah. Since it will take such a long time to get these diagnoses, get. If it's medication, get the medication right. It must be really important to have a good support system. Is there any certain roles of family and friends can play to help support students with an SPLD?

[24:00] Patul: 100%. I think one of the things about living with a. With an SPLD undiagnosed is that you've experienced challenges. The cause of those challenges has never been identified. And so it's really common for people to have sort of suffered in silence because they've felt shame about themselves and they felt aware that they are different and that they're, you know, facing these challenges but not known why. So often they've sort of felt quite alone, actually. And, you know, I think one of the great things about getting that identification and that word and, you know, to describe yourself, a positive word to describe yourself, I hope will really help people to kind of reach out to their support, what network around them and just, you know, everybody's going to need something different. But I think one of the things that you need to do after you get that sort of diagnosis is to actually breathe a sigh of relief and then start to turn your mind to actually. Well, hopefully you will have had a conversation with the psychologist about what kind of things are going to help you, and then you carry on that thinking and have that conversation with people around you, with your partner, with your family, with your friends. We all play a part in relationships and we all have something to offer. And actually, you know, people are really, really happy to sort of, to give back and help you. So say you're finding it hard to sort of, you know, plan your assignments. Might be that asking a friend or a partner to be able to talk it aloud with you, get your ideas together, make a plan together, that sort of thing can be really, really helpful. There are so many ways that we can support each other.

[26:07] Danial: Earlier, you talking about in class there being neurotypical, it's normally tailored towards people who are neurotypical. Is there any advice you would give to educators who are working with students with SPLD to create a more inclusive learning environment?

[26:24] Patul: Yes, I think it's all about setting the emotional tone within your lecture hall or your classroom or wherever you're working. It's about setting up human environment around your learners and from the outset letting your students, your learners know that you understand that everyone learns in different ways and that you're going to sort of teach in the best way you can to make your learning as inclusive and available to as many people as possible. But if there's anybody, any of your learners who are finding that something is creating a barrier for them that you want them to come and tell you, it's all just about conversations, it's just about people speaking to each other.

[27:17] Danial: Yeah. Do you have any top tips maybe for managing a work life balance?

[27:24] Patul: Yeah, I think most people who are neurodiverse have what we call a spiky profile, which means that you have pronounced strengths and weaknesses. You know, neurotypical people can usually do. You know, they have like strengths and weaknesses, but mostly they can do most things to a fairly similar sort of level. What you see with neurodiverse people is they have these really big sort of pronounced sort of highs and lows within their profile. And what that means when you're learning in a kind of neurotypical, sort of a landscape that's sort of designed really for neurotypicals is that you are going to be having to do quite a lot to compensate. And so as a result of that, you are really at risk of burnout. And it's what I said at the beginning as well about the need to overwork to achieve the same sort of outcomes as others. So you are at risk of burnout. So really thinking about managing that work life balance is really, really important. We've already talked about reaching out to your network, getting other people to sort of support you. It's going to help you to get from A to B a lot quicker. Assistive technologies are so, so vital. I Mean, I cannot emphasize that enough. It can take some time to learn a new assistive technology, but if you can learn it, it is an absolute game changer. I'll give you an example of that. For my doctorate, I had to obviously write a thesis and I think this is a common struggle for many people with, with splds is, you know, you have to do obviously a huge literature review. So the writing of that out on a keyboard with all the papers all over the desk, trying to sort of find the relevant bit, look at that, then go back, reference it, it was so laborious. So what I did was I had to train myself in using speech to text and that was an absolute game changer. It meant that I could basically say, right, I'm going to write a thousand words a day. And I could do that because it enabled me to probably work four times faster than I would have been. But that's just one example of all the. There's so many fantastic assistive technologies available now. So I think try those out because they can be huge time savers. You need to look after yourself, be really. Be good to yourself, be kind to yourself, know the things that are going to help you sort of, you know, unwind and have sort of R and R. But just remember to yourself that this is going to be worth it. It's going to be worth it in the end. I think once you've sort of gained your qualification or whatever it is that you're sort of going for in terms of that sort of managing that work life balance, really think when you're going for jobs about really playing to your strengths and that is going to be ultimately how you're going to help yourself with that work life balance. But also because then you're going to be doing something that you absolutely love. So putting in those extra hours is going to be like a pleasure for you and hopefully and you're going to end up really being very successful in what you do because you're going to be so passion and driven.

[30:56] Danial: Yeah, no, completely. Is there anything you'd maybe suggest about after having the assessment and getting a diagnosis when going into work? Is there anything, any tips you should say that talk to your employer about it, saying, I have this or what would you suggest doing?

[31:11] Patul: Yeah, so I would say, I mean, I think you've got it. First of all, you've got to get into the workplace because again, it goes back to this thing about, you know, not making kind of assumptions about what you are going to necessarily sort of find hard or do well in Every job is different and it's not only about the job, it's about the work environment, the other people working around you, whether you're working from home or going into the office, whether you're going to be using sort of it or not. So, I mean, I know there's always this sort of question about should you, you know, disclose to your employer beforehand? And people get sort of, you know, should I disclose it or not? I mean, I think it's probably quite good just to get into the job and just see how it goes. But as soon as, as soon as you start to experience something that you're like, oh, yeah, I can see that there's a bit of a barrier for me there. Just go in, go and speak to your employer and you'll be able to work out a way around it. They'll make adjustments for you. It will only be a good thing in your workplace for you to go and have that conversation. And of course, the other thing that you should be aware of as well is access to work. So access to work is like the workplace equivalent of disabled student allowance. And it's absolutely fantastic. It's a really, really brilliant thing. You can have access to work if you're self employed as well, but as soon as you find that your dyslexia or the ADHD dyspraxia is causing some sort of barrier to you at work, you can apply for access to work. And what is usually incorporated into that is something called a workplace needs assessment, which is basically where you'll work with an assessor and they will talk with you about the barriers that you're facing and then they will make lots of suggestions about technology or adaptations that you could have. But a lot, to be honest, a lot of the sort of adjustments that can be made are just kind of like no cost or low cost anyway. So you may not necessarily need access to work, but if you did require certain kinds of technologies, assistive technologies, obviously some of them could be quite expensive and you can apply to access to.

[33:29] Danial: Work, correct me if I'm wrong, I think with access to work as well, I think they can also offer talks with people in your company so they can explain they don't have to name you, but talk with autism or with just Lexia or adhd, this is how it can affect people in the company and almost might help people who are higher up in the company understand other people are going through this as well, which I do think is beneficial.

[33:56] Patul: Absolutely. They can sort of advocate for you and other things that you can access is things like coaching. Coaching can be really beneficial for somebody with adhd, with any spld, really. But, yeah, there's all kinds of things that you can access through that. Yeah, it's fantastic and I think people should make more use of it.

[34:21] Danial: And that's all the questions I have. Is there anything else you'd like to say?

[34:26] Patul: No, that's. I think that's everything. But, yeah, just sort of wish all your neurodiverse students all the best with their studies and, yeah, it's been really good to speak to you, Dan.

[34:38] Danial: Thank you. Thank you.