How I quit ALCOHOL overnight after 50 years of drinking (Soberclear Review 2025)

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Transcript

Derek's 27-Month Sobriety Story

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to the Stop Drinking Podcast , where we help you make stopping drinking a simple , logical and easy decision . We help you with tips , tools and strategies to start living your best life when alcohol-free . If you want to learn more about stop drinking coaching , then head over to wwwsoberclearcom . 50 years trapped drinking alcohol , solved in under a week . Derek , a retired professional , is now 27 months sober . He said within 24 hours I stopped forever . No cravings , no willpower , just clarity . Alcohol had shaped Derek's life from age 15 onwards . Multiple failed attempts made him feel beyond help until he tried something different . I took Derek through my reframing approach and everything shifted . 27 months later , he's thriving . So what finally broke the cycle and how did he eliminate cravings ? Well , today , that's exactly what we're going to unpack . Let's dive into Derek's amazing story and talk about the amazing results that have happened over the last 27 months . So , guys , today we have got Derek joining us from Southeast Virginia in America , so it's now been 27 months since he started the program . When's the last time you went 27 months without drinking , derek ?

Speaker 2 1:20

Well , not since I was 15 years old , let's put it that way . It's been a very , very long time . Love it Well . It's a pleasure to have you .

Speaker 1 1:24

Let's put it that way , it's been a very , very long time Love it . Well , it's a pleasure to have you . So today , yeah , we're going to unpack your journey . You know the amazing changes that have happened in your life and , yeah , just can't wait for you to get this out there . So I appreciate you coming on .

Speaker 2 1:40

That's my pleasure . That's my pleasure . I hope me talking about this will maybe help some other person who thinks , oh well , I'm too old or I'm too far gone . Let me just tell you from my personal experience no , you're not , and it's worth it for you and for the people around you to do it , and I can't say that more from my heart than I just did just did so .

Speaker 1 2:06

let's start at the beginning , Derek . So yeah

50 Years of Alcohol - The Beginning

Speaker 1 2:10

, how did alcohol become a part of your life ?

Speaker 2 2:13

Well , you know , people often talk about how well is it , your environment or your genes , and my response to that question is always yes , it is . And because I sort of won and lost the genetic lottery , I come from a family that every male in it has major substance abuse problems . So that was a warning sign for me . All the time it was out there I knew I came from that and also the environment I was in because of those physical problems . It was a pretty dysfunctional family . Alcohol was everywhere and uh , you know , uh , yeah , it's , there's people , lots of people had worse . Mine was pretty bad and uh , but alcohol was just part of your life . When there was a problem , you reach for a drink because that would solve it . And I started drinking real early when I was 15 . So that's kind of where we are , that's how you get started , and that was when I was 15 and kind of continued on from there .

Speaker 1 3:20

So when did you like realizing alcohol was a problem ?

Speaker 2 3:27

Well , like I said , I knew I had my uh , my dad and his brothers . I mean , the example was there , I knew it . Uh , I knew alcohol wasn't great for you . But now we're going back almost 50 years here and you know people Hell . At that time we thought cigarettes were good , you know , or okay . So you learn a lot . But over time it just became clear to me that , uh , this wasn't good .

Speaker 2 3:58

I was actually trying to help my brother , uh , and I , if you look in my Kindle's a I don't know a whole bunch of you know how to quit alcohol or how to help yourself with alcohol . And in , in looking through that , it became pretty clear to me that , yeah , he had a problem , but so did I . And uh , from that perspective , you know it , and from that perspective you know it , it it to weigh on me maybe 20 years ago , that , hey , you know this is this isn't good . Uh , uh , I did try to stop a couple of times but uh , it you know , like he quit for Lent or whatever . And uh , and then what happened is , as soon as it was over , you go on a binge and , from my perspective , because of the work I did and the kind of things

Recognizing the Problem

Speaker 2 5:00

and people I was involved with , I think what they call a high functioning alcohol use disorder person . I always showed up for work . I was good , I did and romney were very good and we kind of set off each other in good ways because we collaborated and got things done . But there was also a big time function or an environment of alcohol and you know , uh , you , you end up with , uh , a whole bunch of things that don't and uh improve your relationship with alcohol and uh , that's that's kind of how I was getting to life .

Speaker 2 5:38

At the , at that 20 year point , I started trying to quit , like I said , and that's when I began to realize that , uh , this is really fricking hard to quit , like I said , and that's when I began to realize that , uh , this is really freaking hard to quit this really hard . And so , uh , as I looked through all the literature I had on uh alcohol , which you know ties into addiction and the relationship with alcohol and dopamine , that's when I began to realize that just how difficult this could be . It's a physical and psychological addiction and the two go . They're intertwined . Uh , when you drink alcohol , uh , the dopamine , which is your feel-good drug , kicks in really hard , except it's like amplified far more than if you're doing something really in george and she jumper . You know that that jolt you get when you go off that's that's dopamine .

Speaker 2 6:42

well , when you put alcohol into that mix , you amplify it and it's like an order of magnitude to stop just a little bit . You don't feel a little bit better , you feel a lot , but then you get a crash and that's why , and so you start chasing it and that's uh , you know , that's why you get those types of problems . From my perspective , I was not the guy who was , you know , knocking back a handle of vodka a day , although I worked with some people who were . I was a chronic kind of . You know , I used to track my alcohol use and I would look at it and they had , they had , uh , there's metrics in the , in the alcohol use disorder handbook , if you will .

Speaker 2 7:32

And uh , I was always at least double what that was in a weekly basis , and if it was a bad weekend it would be a bit worse , maybe quite a bit worse , you know . So that's kind of where I was with alcohol . It was a big part of my life , and but as long as I was working , there were breaks , you know , and then , and that was psychologically enough for me to overcome the , the urge to , to go over the edge . Most of the time not , but again , you do that for for decades and the amount of damage you're doing to uh your brain , your other organs liver of course , but it affects them all and uh your sleep patterns . And you know I'm still searching for that magical .

Speaker 2 8:30

this is why alcohol is good for you uh and every time I look at one of these studies that say it is , uh , somebody who used to do some pretty good analysis . No , that's not a study , that's an advertisement . Anyway , what else would you like to ask me ?

Speaker 1 8:51

oh well , so so you started realizing , like 20 years ago , that yeah , okay , this stuff's not good . So then and then it sounded like you . You know this kind of like you . You it was causing some issues , but then you would have work where you'd stop for a period of time . So were there like specific things in those 20 years where you were like you know that would drive you to want to stop ?

The Turning Point

Speaker 2 9:19

Well , there were , like I say , I always showed up for work and uh tended to be in with a group of people who it's kind of funny . Uh , they say , well , so-and-so drinks more than I do .

Speaker 2 9:31

So you know , everything must be okay Well you know , that's , that's a bit of self-deception , if you will . Uh it it became . As I got older , I started to feel the effects more and I was starting to physically break down , and you know , and then , uh , as I was coming up on retiring , uh , well , the brakes were off , police , and you know you , you do that a couple of times . And then I , you know so I retired about eight , nine months before I got into your program , and there was a couple times there I said what the hell am I doing here ? And I tried to . I actually , you know , approached a couple of these other programs and and tried to go through them and it didn't work . Uh , I think , as you recall well , you may not , it's been a couple of years , but when I talked to you I wasn't real optimistic and I think you had some .

Speaker 2 10:34

I think you had some hesitation about taking me on too because , uh , well , target demographic and all that a bit older . But I did and your approach was actually kind of similar to the way I had been going at it , in a kind of a step-by-step . You know , understand , you know , first thing you got to do is admit you got a problem , try to understand the problem and then try to figure out what you gotta do to solve it and then execute it . But the little bit of difference was having the skin in the game . I mean , your program is not free , but for a lot of people I think that is well . For me it was critical .

Speaker 2 11:26

You know , uh , I talked to my wife about it and she was kind of like , well , you don't drink that much and that's , that's really not true . Uh , you know , there's , uh , there's some things about alcohol . Uh , those of us who who drink a lot , we don't , we're not always real open about how much we're drinking and a lot of times the people , even the ones that are very close to us , don't realize how much it is , other than maybe the rare outburst and uh , so I'll just leave that right where it is .

Speaker 1 12:00

Yeah , Agreed , I know exactly what you're talking about . So yeah , and you know it's funny . Actually earlier today I did a call with Jeff , who is around the same time about two and a half years sober , and he said he didn't actually realize it until looking back , but he realized that he actually stopped the moment he decided to actually book a call with me and reach out for help and he realized that that was the turning point with just actually going . How much are you going to talk to somebody about this ?

Speaker 2 12:27

Well , let me tell you , uh , the day I signed up with you , before I'd even finished , before I even got your stuff , I had stopped . That was the day . So Jeff and I have something in common , uh , and you know , maybe that's , that's just what it is , but whatever it is , it worked , and that's for me the all-important thing it worked thank you , love it .

Speaker 1 12:59

So maybe describe like how how different do you feel now compared to the times in the past where you know the 20 years that you were trying to stop for ? What was the difference like ? How do you feel now compared to them ?

Speaker 2 13:14

well , let me . So , first thing , right out of the gate , you know you start sleeping better because and it takes a little while , it takes a couple of weeks but you've got a lot of uh , long-term damage . Your body's going to repair my case because of the length of time and really the uh , uh consistency . You know it was chronic abuse . I wasn't , like I said , I wasn't the guy drinking a handle of vodka , which I consider acute , although that could be chronic as well but I was long-term , way over the limit and it was an every night thing and then with , with you know , bursts of of worse . Well , when you take that away , I , so I never had to go through , like you know , the physical DTs or anything like that , but you do go through . It takes a couple of weeks for your body just to flush the stuff out and you start to feel better and and so that's good . Uh , then you know I started getting back into working out a bit and and I lost weight . I lost 15 pounds and and I probably look , uh , people run into me now and , in spite of the fact that I've lost a lot of hair , uh , you know they , they say , wow , you really look good and you know I feel good .

Speaker 2 14:39

So that's the , that's the , that's the all the upside it doesn't make your life instantly better that all the relationship issues , all the you know , whatever problems you have , are still there . But the important thing is you now are aware of them in a way you weren't before . You don't just slug back a couple of beers to kind of numb it and forget about it in the next morning . You still got the problem and you have capacity that you didn't have before to deal with issues . There are things that happen in life now that used to .

Speaker 2 15:14

I I've got a very bad temper and I that runs in the family . I've known that for years and I still do . But my ability to control it is about a hundred percent better , and and also my ability to deal with just everyday life and problems is better . Uh , you know , my granddaughter , my daughter , had to move in with us and you know , uh , I'm not sure I could have handled that many years ago and now I don't need it . It's just part of life . You just roll with it and it's good .

Speaker 2 15:52

You speak frequently about what's the upside to alcohol . Well , like I say , I'm still looking and you might get a 15 , 20 minute buzz . Uh that , uh that first drink . Uh , that's that dopamine hit kicking in and boy , that feels good . But then the crash . When it comes down , you actually go below the dopamine level and now you're in . Your body says , hey , we got to go get this , and you know that's why you ended up sitting at the bar two in the morning looking for your next drink and everybody else was gone . I didn't do that , but I know I worked with people who did .

Speaker 1 16:32

Yeah , a hundred percent . So what else improved ? So you're sleeping better

Life Improvements in Sobriety

Speaker 1 16:38

, you're losing weight , you know you're , you're dealing with problems better . What else Tell me more .

Speaker 2 16:44

Come on , well , you start uh looking around at people , you start engaging with them more . Uh , or and this is something I'm still not totally sure of Uh , I , I believe my uh persona or something changed a bit . Uh , I find that people approach me now uh readily I mean , maybe I just noticed it more but people will come up and stop or ask me a question or whatever . They don't hesitate . I , I have a feeling I might've looked pretty rough , maybe uh or gruff , you know , and you can be both uh , because I was always , you know , coming off a bad night's sleep , slightly hung over or worse .

Speaker 2 17:35

And uh now people , uh , I mean , I'll just be walking in the supermarket and somebody look at me and smile and you know , and I or maybe I just notice it , I don't know the fog you're in when you're coming off of uh , even just a couple of drinks because you sleep so poorly . I mean , one drink will ruin a night's sleep , and that's that's . That's a medical fact , that's not a , you know , an opinion . And when you don't sleep well , you are not anywhere near as functional as you are capable of and or should be . So that , I think , is a real plus .

Speaker 2 18:14

The wife and I have traveled . We've also , you know , I've done a couple things on my own . She's done a couple things on her own . We're going to go , you know , I've done a couple things on my own . She's done a couple things on her on her own . We're gonna go , uh , you know , visit her cousin in norway . Uh , later this summer .

Speaker 2 18:29

I in the past I would have hesitated to do that because of , uh , you don't realize how much alcohol controls your life . Anytime you're going to go , do something you start thinking about . Well , you know , is there going to be a bar there , or can I ? You know , will I be able to , and even at the lower levels you're , you're , that's just something . You know I need that . I need those drinks every day , or I want to make sure I got them , and if I don't have them , you know I get cranky . Um , you take that out of your life and a whole bunch of things . All of a sudden you've got a lot more time and that's something .

Speaker 2 19:11

Uh , one of the programs I was looking at , uh , it involved taking a drug when I was trying to quit . I , I didn't . That didn't resonate with me at all . Uh , to me , taking a drug to you know it's like what is it ? Methadone or whatever they give it to heroin addicts . What do you end up with ? A guy addicted to methadone , uh , maybe that's better . I don't know . Never looked at it , but they had a you know a glossy trifold which was very professionally done , but they talked about the five thieves , the five thieves of alcohol , and one of them was the thief of time . Uh , the other ones were , you know , everything you , you can think of . That makes sense . Uh , it takes away your relationships , your confidence and so on , but you're , when you stop drinking , you gain time .

Speaker 2 20:11

And , and the important thing for me was that now I have this time I've got to do something with it and uh , it took me a while to figure that out Uh , but , and it will anybody , because all of us this is going to be a shift when you , when you quit and and you're not you've got to .

Speaker 2 20:30

You've got to do two things , I think you've got to find something that you like doing that you've been doing and go a lot harder at it . You've also got to try to find something new that really engages you and uh , that's really important because you've got about a lot of capacity and also you're chasing that dopamine hit and if you don't find something that gives you that , um , you know that's where you could maybe risk a relapse . It kind of sneaks up to you . You know that's where you could maybe risk a relapse . It kind of sneaks up to you . I have not felt that I have had absolutely zero , zero desire to drink . I don't mind being around drinking . We go , we go to parties , we've been on cruises . You know , uh , like I'm trying to learn how to dance that and that's .

Speaker 2 21:20

If you knew me better , you'd know you would do more than just grin at that . You would . You would be laughing your head off . But uh , anyway , that's . I'm just saying . You know you , you're not missing out on anything by not drinking , you are not .

Speaker 1 21:37

And you brought up some some really good points Like and you brought up some some really good points Like I love what you said about how people talk to you more Like you . It's like you're more inviting or something .

Speaker 2 21:46

Yeah .

Speaker 1 21:48

Yeah that , that that was interesting . But then you said that you you've just mentioned this like . So I like what you're saying because you're being realistic , right . You're saying that it's not a magic pill . Your , your life's still going to have problems . They don't just magically all disappear just because you're not drinking a drug anymore . They're still there . But then you brought this subjective time on . And it's true , Especially if you're retired , you're going to have a ton more free time and energy . So what have you found ? We're not going to say substitute , because there's no substitute for this , but what have you found ? What have you been filling your time with instead of drinking like ?

Speaker 2 22:24

well , I've been getting back more into uh , fitness , uh , which , again , as an older guy , you gotta . If , uh , there was a point in my life when I was very fit and that has served me well as I've gotten older , I found out that , as I was recovering from injuries which I induced on myself from doing things rather foolishly , you have to train differently and do it differently . But that's been a . You know , I like the golf , and if you're going to golf as an

Finding New Purpose Without Alcohol

Speaker 2 23:00

older type , you've got to . You don't get in shape playing golf , you have to get . I like to golf , and if you're going to golf as an older type , you've got to . Uh , you , you don't get in shape playing golf , you have to get in shape to play golf , and so that's been important . Uh , I mentioned the dancing that's .

Speaker 2 23:11

That has been one of the most difficult things I've ever done and I've done some pretty challenging things over the years , but it it's , it's a totally new skillset years , but it it's , it's a totally new skillset . And , uh , you know , the people that were trying to have been trying to teach me are are pretty amazing . Uh , it , it's a little funny uh , taking a one of the trips I went on . Uh , you know , I was in amongst some people who are maybe a bit out of my socioeconomic scale , but I fit in okay , and for whatever reason , a couple of them , um , they also stopped drinking and they told me that I , I had inspired them to stop and that caused me a lot of I didn't know what the . It was a strange emotion . I didn't know how to feel about that , I mean , cause it was kind of like , uh , and I still have yet to really figure it out I was maybe embarrassed or I I don't know , but I was so grateful that that had happened , but I also didn't really understand it .

Speaker 1 24:33

Uh , this is , this is post , stopping right .

Speaker 2 24:36

Yes , yeah .

Speaker 1 24:39

It wasn't during the drinking Cause , then it would be quite offensive .

Speaker 2 24:42

No , this I . When we were , you know , sitting down to a dinner and they came around , I said no , I stopped . And oh , do you not drink ? I said no , I did drink , but I , I stopped . And at the time that was , I stopped oh , do you not drink ? I said no , I did drink , but I stopped . And at the time that was , I think I was a year into it , and they , we chatted a little bit , I was very open about it . And then a couple , about a month or so after the trip , they contacted me and said , yeah , we , we both quit , we're done . And and you were a big part of it , and I , I , like I said , I was dumbfounded .

Speaker 1 25:20

So that's , that's it . You don't know who you're influencing . We've initiated the thing .

Speaker 2 25:25

You can't tell .

Speaker 1 25:27

Yeah , you can't tell people to stop , but you can set the example . It's all you can do .

Speaker 2 25:31

Well , and I guess maybe that's it . I don't really consider myself a good example . I consider myself a bad one . 50 years , almost no .

Speaker 1 25:41

Well , that but , that's the whole point is that if you can drink for 50 years , struggle for 20 and still change , I mean you're the perfect example .

Speaker 1 25:49

Yes , uh , and that's maybe where I got to kind of shift my frame of reference , if you will , a little bit . But uh , yeah it's , and I think , yeah , I think one of the things is because we're doing this quite far into your journey . It's not like it was three months ago , where you can remember all the bad things , Like it's so it's such a long time ago now that everything's just completely normal , Like this is just how life is for you now .

Speaker 2 26:13

Yeah , I ago now that everything is just completely normal , like this is just how life is for you now . Yeah , I mean , this is like I say , there's there's no urge to drink at all . Uh , there is an urge to , I guess , maybe try to do things better , and and that gets a little frustrating at times because , uh , I , I'm , there's a couple , I'm doing a little bit of writing and there's a few other things that I'm involved with . At times I'm borderline ADHD . I think I'm kind of bouncing around so much and maybe I need to be a bit more focused , but , on the other hand , I've got a lot more energy than I used to have . There's good and bad , and it's always a matter of , uh , it's trying to develop good habits and good process vice . You know the old habit , uh , man , I look back at it and the habits I used to have , it was like clockwork . You know , this is what I'm going to do , and a lot of it was really bad .

Speaker 1 27:16

No . So without , without trying to , I don't want you to sell the program , I want you to give your version of like how , how you would handle this . So if you could go back to your old self the wanted to change but wasn't sure what to do , but they had the desire to change what would you go and tell that version of you now ?

Advice for Those Wanting to Change

Speaker 2 27:42

So what I will do is assume that I I didn't have the life experience that I'd already had where I had been trying to help my brother and digging into things . And if , if you're someone who's just been drinking for a long time , habitually , and you wanna stop but you're at a loss , your program lays out sort of a step by step . I mentioned it earlier . You know the first rule of holes you want to get out , quit digging . Uh , you , you really got to recognize you got a problem .

Speaker 1 28:19

I said don't sell the program .

Speaker 2 28:22

Yeah Well , I'm sorry , this is , this is where you've got to . You got to look at yourself and you know , and , and if you're , if you're struggling , well , you need a framework , you need something that gives you , uh , human beings , love frameworks . That's what we , that's what we survive on , because the world is too complex for us to just take it in and react . So , you , that's what we do . We try to put things in boxes and and re , so that we can work our way through systematically . Uh , that's that's what you need . And and it . You know I , I fumbled around looking for something to do that Um and uh it you know it took me a while .

Speaker 1 29:17

And , by the way , knowing you have a problem doesn't mean you can solve it .

Speaker 1 29:21

Yeah , I remember I got a highly skeptical email from you saying I've bought this person program and it was . It was rubbish and he won't give me my money back . And uh and uh , I know what first principle was thinking is from previous work , but I actually read it before we got on the call . I know what first principle is thinking is from previous work , but I actually read it before we got on the call . I know what it is but I'm a skeptic , something along those lines . But I think you'd already done a lot of like the your own kind of analysis of how alcohol is impacting your life . I think you were quite far on in your journey mentally and then it was kind of like for you just needed a few key pieces and then it ordered , brought everything together for you .

Speaker 2 30:00

It's , it's . You know , you can have all the pieces in in a puzzle , uh on the table , and you might even have , uh , the rough edges sorted out . But there's when you're doing a puzzle where all of a sudden things start coming together and that's where , uh , that was . That was sort of the moment when , all of a sudden , gears were grinding , they weren't meshing the clutch thing , and then all of a sudden it slipped in and and the engine stopped screaming and it started purring . And you know , there , uh , it was just like , yeah , okay , this , yes , this is it , this is the way forward . Um , this is it , this is the way forward ? Um , it's , it's in .

Speaker 2 31:00

Everyone is going to be different and everybody's going to have to find their own way . But the framework , you know , if , if you can get yourself into that framework and then you can start , kind of it's almost like monkey bars when you're a kid you know I'm here and I want to go there , well , you start swinging yourself along and you get into a rhythm and the next thing , you know , you're on the other side and you say , well , that wasn't that hard . Well , yeah , that's because you were hanging on one , you know , bar at a time and and doing it without you know , any sort of assistance . Uh , using the laws of physics and momentum to get you moving so you could get to the other side . Uh , you know , your , the stuff you've got gives that framework , uh , meat . It puts meat on the bone , if you will .

Speaker 1 31:48

So I think , I think the I didn't want you to sell the program , man , but I appreciate these kind words . It's so , it's so lovely to hear . But I think the thing you to sell the program man , but I appreciate these kind words it's so lovely to hear . But I think the thing you're saying is , yeah , you've got to admit you've got a problem , but then you've got to find a framework . So don't struggle on your own , go and find something out there . It doesn't necessarily need to be this , it can be something else . And my mum , so my mum drank for all 20 years . That was her framework . Like it is a framework , it's just not one that we want to use , but it's , it's still the same principle that you're kind of recommending no , and what you just described is is an important point .

Speaker 2 32:23

uh , everybody is different . Uh , a work has worked for millions of people . Uh , it , I looked at their program pretty hard . I mean , I go to a church where they've got the nightly meetings and I uh this , just , uh , no , I , you know that that the mental , it wasn't for me and I'll just leave it at that and it is a good program . Yeah , very , it's better than good . It's it's a lifesaver for people , but it just leave it at that and it is a good program . It's better than good , it's a lifesaver for people , but it just wasn't for me .

Speaker 1 32:58

Yeah , isn't it funny . I'm the person that benefited from AA more than anybody that went to AA , because my mom got sober and raised me sober , right , so I'm the one that benefited the most from it . But then I now have an alternative to that program . It's quite funny , right ? Because it didn't work for me and I wasn't going to do that either , like hell , no , but your advice is golden , so let me ask you this .

Speaker 1 33:21

So I think one thing people struggle with is reaching out for help because you have to and Jeff said this on the previous call and I don't want to give you the answer before he said it , but he made a great point . He said you got to swallow your pride , and it's a fricking hard thing to do , especially when you're male to to reach out for help and say do you know what ? I don't know how to do this , what I've been doing is not working . So what would you say to somebody who's kind of at that place where they know they've got a problem , but you know they're holding onto their pride , they're afraid to reach out for help ?

Speaker 2 33:48

I would agree with Jeff about swallowing your pride or admitting . I mean , we all think we're big and tough and strong , and in many ways we are , but sometimes you get yourself into a situation where you need someone to give you a hand , whether you're part of a team or whether you're a crew or whatever . So we do it through life and this is maybe one of the most important things you're ever going to do . You know you got a problem . You do it at work , or you've done it in your career , or you've done it in other areas of your life . Uh , and yeah , you know .

Speaker 2 34:38

This is where the the the really tough part comes is admitting to , uh , the people close to you and your loved ones that , yeah , you know you got a problem and you got to do it . And , uh , you know it's critical for them to support you and my family did , and for them to support you and my family did , and and that you know . So there's a team there , uh , and then the group uh , you know the , the discussions you guys have two days a week . I try to get in there , but it just I just never seem to make it uh with joe , but it you really . Maybe that's that little extra that gets you , that's that final log on the pile that lets you get over the hump , if you will , and get into an area where you can start to fix your problem .

Speaker 1 35:28

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