Strung Out Episode 226. PART TWO OF ARTIST KENNY DARK POET LAPINS

In this episode of Strung Out, host Martin LaUrence McCormack dives into an inspiring and insightful conversation with Kenny Dark Poet Lapins, an accomplished artist, writer, musician, and cancer survivor, right from Kenny's studio where he creates his magic. They discuss the profound journey Kenny embarked on from a marketing and advertising professional to a renowned visual artist, touching upon his unique approach to creating hooks in visual art.
Kenny shares his personal story about battling cancer and how it influenced his work, leading to the creation of 'A Brush with Cancer'—an altruistic initiative for cancer survivors. Martin and Kenny explore the struggles and triumphs associated with being an artist in a bustling metropolis like Chicago, and the importance of standing out in such a densely populated artistic landscape.
They delve into the challenging process of transitioning from a professional who markets for others to an artist who must market his own art. Kenny discusses his experience of networking, getting his work into shows, and the importance of finding patrons and fellow artists to support and collaborate with.
Martin and Kenny also touch on the creative process, discussing how Kenny selects his subjects, his painting rituals, his challenges with perspective, and the importance of setting personal goals and routines. Kenny shares his philosophy on success, measuring it by personal satisfaction and moments of connection with those who experience his art.
The podcast wraps up with Kenny offering candid advice to aspiring artists about the significance of perseverance, self-promotion, and finding joy in one's work. Martin emphasizes the importance of external support and community for solo artists. Their discussion leaves listeners with valuable insights into the grit and passion driving artists today.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to Strung Out, the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist. Your host is the artist, writer, and musician, Martin Laurence McCormack. Now here's Marty. Hey everybody, welcome to Strung Out. I am with Kenny, Dark Poet Lappins, and I'm in his studio. It's painting, uh, this is where the magic happens, as they say.

[00:00:28] And, uh, if you didn't catch the last podcast, I really encourage you to go and catch that, uh, podcast. And, and listen to, uh, Kenny's, uh, story, his background. Um, uh, this, this is a man that, uh, with art, uh, a writer for 40 years, had a brush with, uh, cancer. Uh, literally, uh, that line, a brush with cancer became, uh, uh, something that's now, uh, used, uh, as part of, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, altruistic good deed doing thing, uh, that you're doing for, uh, people that have survived cancer.

[00:01:11] All that information is on the podcast and, um, but we have so much to unpack with Kenny and really what it is that I want to delve into is you're in a unique position, uh, you spent 40 years of your life doing advertising and marketing. And writing, and on the last podcast we talked about creating a hook, you're one of the very few people that I've heard that talks about creating a hook when it comes to visual art and, and, and creating.

[00:01:44] So we're going to get into the nitty gritty of, for those of you that are thinking, you know, Am I alone out here, you know, in this sea of acrylic? Uh, because it is a difficult thing, um, to not only, uh, the pleasure of painting is tempered by the hard work. Right. And, uh, so let's, let's start in with that as an advertiser, um, as somebody that's written some, uh, you know, uh, scripts and, uh, commercials and such, where do you see the crossing when you have to kind of step into those shoes and say, now I have to be that advertiser for me?

[00:02:34] Yeah, it's, it's very difficult to break out. Of the crowd, uh, you know, here we are in Chicago, which is a major metropolitan area and a cultural center of the world. Um, and I am one of thousands of artists. Um, and you know, I have, I have an Instagram page. I have a website and have maybe 150 followers on Instagram.

[00:03:05] Not a lot. Um, and I don't get a lot of hits on my website, although every once in a while I, I do. Interesting story there. Um, one of the, the grandson of Philip Harrington, who was the first commissioner of the CTA, saw my website. I don't know how they found it. Um, and saw that I have a bunch of paintings, uh, the CTA and the trains.

[00:03:32] And he said, Oh my God, I love these paintings. And you know, I'm the grandson of the guy who was the first commissioner of the CTA. So I want to buy a couple. And he bought a couple of my paintings based on, you know, finding my website, which again, I don't know how he did that. Um, but you know, it hit at a chord.

[00:03:46] So, you know, when you're talking about. So, you know, a niche audience like that, you're going to, it's not going to be enough to, to, uh, to make a living at. And so, you know, I, I do a couple of things, uh, every day I, I check, uh, the, um, Instagram, um, pages of a couple of groups that are, that post calls for art.

[00:04:12] Uh, the Chicago, the Chicago Artists Resource is a, is a website that I go to. Uh, weekly that has a list of, of calls for art. Um, you know, so I've been in, uh, five shows so far this year. I had my paintings hanging up at a restaurant called the Midtown. Mid coast brewery, um, and, uh, you know, they were there for three months, and so anybody who came to that restaurant saw my art.

[00:04:40] Uh, and I was in the Glenwood Avenue Arts Fest in Chicago. In my neck of the woods, right down Morse Avenue, where I live. I've been in that a couple times, but I was, again, in that. This year I had a booth with my friend who got me involved in painting. We had a shared booth. Uh, so, you know, I have to go out actively and find opportunities.

[00:05:02] They don't come to me. Um, you know, when you get to a certain level, those things will come to you, but I'm nowhere near that. Again, I just started my career. 11 years ago on a lark, uh, and became really serious about it only a couple of years later. Uh, and then did my first show solo show, uh, in, in 2020, right before the pandemic.

[00:05:25] And I want the viewer, the listener to let that sink in. You just heard Kenny say, I started this 11 years ago. And then, you know, just a few years after that started taking it seriously. So here you are, you know, you're, you're a decade in or more in, and you are still, you're hustling. I am definitely hustling.

[00:05:45] Uh, you know, I, I drive my paintings to whatever gallery it is that I am showing in. I have actually have a show that's opening on, uh, on this coming Saturday at the Wayward Arts Gallery. And again, that's an opportunity that I found through their Instagram page, where they posted a call to art, uh, back in August, even, uh, for this show that's coming up.

[00:06:08] This week. So, um, yeah, it's a lot of, of hustle. And, and, and again, it's only necessary if that's what you want to do, right? There are people that paint just because they love to paint and it gives them pleasure. And then they give the paintings out to their friends and hang them up in their apartment. And, you know, and again, I am not somebody who's actively trying to.

[00:06:32] Make money as a painter. I do have to say though, that I have as a goal to be somebody who's known as a painter and that's completely different because you can, Vince van Gogh died completely penniless and, you know, in an insane asylum in France, and he's literally one of the greatest painters who ever lived and, and has had more influence on me and other painters in the last, you know, 150 years than anybody else, uh, and, um, You know, how pro how prolific one is or isn't doesn't matter because, and it's interesting because I was, I went onto a couple of Facebook groups that have, you know, that show paintings and they show a lot of paintings by famous artists that I'd never seen before, uh, from their, of, of your, that aren't very good.

[00:07:29] Right. Offensive Van Gogh paintings, Monet paintings that aren't actually very good. And. It made me, and Picasso, too, has said this himself. He only painted a couple of really good paintings that he's proud of. Right. Everything else is, is what it is. And I, too, you know, I have, you know, 20 paintings hanging up in my living room here, but I have a bunch of paintings, you know, on the ground next to you and in my closet.

[00:07:54] There are another 30 paintings just sitting in a pile because I don't think they're all that great. Uh, but again, one of those paintings was one of the paintings that this guy who's the, you know, grandson of the GTA guy bought. So, you know, I don't, I, I have thrown paintings away that are absolutely terrible, but I don't usually throw away my art because, you know, what I don't like, somebody else might.

[00:08:16] Yeah, it's really hard to, um, you know, you're probably your own worst enemy when it comes to judging art. But, um You know, you bring up, uh, the classic artist thing that, uh, that we, uh, as artists, uh, kind of accept is that we might not be known in our lifetime. Right. We might not be known even in our grandkids lifetime.

[00:08:40] But there is, you know, as, uh, you know, the, I always quote Al Rose, uh, who is a singer songwriter, and he said, When I have my posthumous release. And, uh, and it just, it's, uh, the art world, uh, is at least here in the United States, I think is very, very tough on its artists, don't you think? Or, or am I just being too soft on myself?

[00:09:09] You're absolutely right. Uh, like I said, uh, last year was my most prolific year. And this year is literally my most successful year based on what I painted last year and nobody's heard of me. So I, you know, I, I have, I was published in two different magazines this year. Congratulations. That's great. Thank you.

[00:09:32] What, what, what? Yeah. See the magazine. The upward quarterly, uh, spring edition and a small magazine called saving daylight, which is for people that have seasonal affective disorder. So both of those magazines have Published my art and interviews with me. And if I hadn't mentioned them just now, you would never know that.

[00:09:52] So, you know, the fact that I'm having all the success, I'm in more shows this year than I've ever been before. I was just at the Zao Bee Art Gallery, which is a bucket list item of mine to be in because it's a big, huge, well known gallery. Um, and, uh, I am getting a lot of my paintings photographed professionally this year so I can make prints.

[00:10:14] Um, but, you know, success has to be measured. internally. Okay, that's a great point. For you to be satisfied with yourself, you need to get, meet the goals you've set for yourself, regardless of what the outside world has set for you. And let me just tag on to that while you're, you're talking. Because, uh, you started off by saying, you know, I, I kind of, uh, I look, you have like a ritual sounds like to your day.

[00:10:47] Um, when it comes to your art and, uh, and it sounds to me, uh, that you might even have a ritual when it comes to Kenny wearing the, the, the marketing head, as opposed to let me put on, you know, WFMT and get into my zone, you know? So. For the person that's out there that, uh, doesn't have that marketing, um, uh, skill, and, and full disclosure, we both come from a marketing background, and, uh, I always said marketing, uh, uh, saved my butt when it came to the arts.

[00:11:21] I mean, I always wondered, why did I end up doing this, you know, when all my siblings were doctors? And I'm like, well, because I went into the arts, you know, and you have to sell yourself. Few of us are very good at it. So, I guess the question I have to you is, is just briefly outline the, Kenny the marketing person that's looking at Kenny the artist, you know, tell me what you kind of do in a day or do you save a certain day for it?

[00:11:49] You know, what's your ritual? Yeah. So I usually only paint on the weekends. And I think that's funny because that kind of makes me a weekend warrior. Uh, and, uh, uh, you know, the, the, the, the desk that we're sitting at right now is also the desk that I do my work. I work from home. And so I do the work at the same desk that I do the painting.

[00:12:08] Um, for the writing. Yeah, exactly. Well, cool. Right. So, you know, this whole area of the house is where I do my work. And. I generally only paint on the weekends only because then I don't have, like I said, it takes a lot of effort for me to do my job and so at the end of the day I'm very tired. And so on the weekends I can spend a relaxed time coming up with what it is I'm going to paint.

[00:12:34] Usually I already know because I get a little thing in my brain that says I need to paint this thing. And until I do it, I can't do anything else. For, you know, a couple of years ago, I had the notion to paint a gas station. Yeah. I don't know why. But it came into your mind? It came into my mind, and I could not do anything else until I painted the gas station.

[00:12:58] I love it. And it's right over there. I love it. Right. And it was a really difficult painting. It was actually one of my most Difficult paintings that took me the longest to do, uh, which is to say it took me more than one sitting. Most of the paintings that we're looking at here, I've painted in, in about two to four hours in one sitting.

[00:13:16] Sure. Uh, and if I don't, it's very difficult for me to leave something undone. Uh, and to come back to it. And so is that, uh, you know, that is, uh, it almost sounds like, uh, you know, almost ADD in the way of very much so, you know, but I find a lot of artists have that. I mean, um, do you keep lists? I absolutely keep lists.

[00:13:38] I have lots of different lists on my phone and folders in my photo app. That have, you know, ideas for paintings and different categories of paintings to do, um, and, uh, you know, it's very similar in the aspect of writing in which I've written something, I put it down, I Well, very rarely go back and reread it and fix it up.

[00:14:04] Um, because it just, I, I, I was in the flow then at that moment, I was in the flow to create that thing. I'm not going to be able to get back to it. Right. So if I come, if I go back and try. The same thing with painting. If I go back to a painting and say, okay, I need to do this thing here, I have no idea how I did it.

[00:14:24] Uh, I'm looking at all the paintings around here and I literally do not know how I did these things. Uh, again, because I never took a class and so I didn't learn. Uh, as a matter of fact, at the Zalbi art show that I was at, somebody came by and was looking at the painting of the Baha'i Temple and he got really close and he said, Wow.

[00:14:44] Your leaves are so intricate here. You can see all the veiny details. And he asked me, how did you do that? And I thought about it for a second and, and, uh, and kind of started to panic because my only answer was, I don't know. Which is a great answer. I think because, you know, when an artist is in the moment, you don't know.

[00:15:09] Right. You know, and I discovered, and having not ever taken any painting classes, I'm sure I would have learned that to create foliage, what you do is you take your brush, you put it in some dark green paint, you put it in some light green paint on the same brush, and you poke the canvas like this, and you'll get this beautiful leaf.

[00:15:26] So I discovered that on my own. Serendipitously, yeah. I invented this great new thing. You know, but of course, everyone's been doing it for the last 10, 000 years. But that's, uh, I think for, again, for the person that's trying to make their way in the painting world, I think that's so encouraging because it's, uh, It's, it's talking about, you know, discovering your own, uh, ways of painting.

[00:15:53] And, yeah, if you do go to a class, and it's not disparaging classes either, I mean, all of us have probably watched, uh, you know, uh, uh, Fosse, uh, Bob, Bob Ross. Bob Ross. Bob Ross, yeah, you know, with Happy Little Clouds and Happy Little Accidents, um, you know, and you'll love that. Yeah. Um, before we take a break, uh, For, and I'm going to just push it one more time, I think that since the hardest aspect of this is that balancing act of wearing the promoter's hat, Do you ever try to, you know, create like a fan base?

[00:16:38] Do you try to keep a database of people that bought your paintings? Have you found some? Person that's like, you know, I, I am in love with your art and you say, yeah, you know, I, I, I need you to be my cheerleader, my, um, so talk about that because in music, they call that street teams, that kind of thing. You know, where you, you, the arts need volunteers and the solo artists.

[00:17:04] Really needs volunteers, right? Yeah, I, for sure, uh, the person that I've talked about a couple times, uh, Annie Morgan, who got it, who got me involved in painting in the first place, she's my biggest patron. She owns more paintings of mine, she's bought more paintings of mine than anybody else, uh, and, uh, she and her husband are actually funding this, um, professional portraiture of my paintings, uh, as a, as a gift.

[00:17:30] Um, and, uh, So it's important to find a patron and to stick with them. And I also found a friend of mine, uh, who's not someone who's now a friend of mine, who I found on Instagram. Her name is Ruth. Uh, and she puts on art shows around the city in different locations. Just really just creates them out of thin air.

[00:17:51] Guerrilla. Guerrilla. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. And, uh, you know, I. I found her on Instagram just because she paints similar Chicago scenes than I do. So I started liking her paintings and then I sent her a comment on one of her paintings and she liked that. So I sent her a direct message saying, hey, you and I paint together.

[00:18:11] The same kind of stuff. That's great. And we just, you know, created a, uh, an Instagram, um, uh, conversation. Yeah. And, uh, through her, I have been in, you know, four different shows that she's put on, including the ZaoBee show. So, um, and again, I don't know her very well. I only know her through Instagram. I, I don't think I have her phone number on my phone, uh, but, but we know each other and we're friends and she'll look at this and she'll laugh and say, yes, I don't get it.

[00:18:42] What are you talking about? Um, but you know, you, you within your realm, you try to find inroads to where you want to be. So for example, I, like I said, I've always wanted to be. In the Zalby gallery. Yeah. So, and, and, uh, the organization of which I'm a part, Russians with cancer, had a gala there one year, uh, which included one of my paintings, but that.

[00:19:09] That didn't count because that was through this organization, but I, you know, I discovered that gallery and, and, and wow, this is one of the galleries I'd love to be part of. And it has five, five stories and, you know, different galleries on each floor. And I found, uh, one of the people on Instagram again, uh, that.

[00:19:29] is the gallery owner of one of the galleries in Zalby and I sent her a message. So honestly, to be, to get to the next level, wherever you are, the next step up, you need to put it out there. Yeah. You need to be the one who sends the emails out of the blue to perfect example. We're sitting here talking right now as the result of a So, Facebook post that I saw from the last person you had a podcast with, Joel Anassa, who owned the gallery Fulton Street Collective that I used to belong to, I out of the blue sent you an email saying, Hey, we should have a podcast because I have a lot to say about art.

[00:20:14] And here we are. It's networking for sure. It wouldn't have happened if I hadn't sent that email. So putting yourself out in the world is the only way to get noticed. And, uh, how far you go depends much less on your efforts. than it does on simple chance and fate. Somebody's going to see this and they're going to say, Hey, I love this guy.

[00:20:39] I'm going to do this. But it has to be out there. It can't be in your closet. It can't be in your closet. You have to put it out there for the, for it to happen. Let's take a quick break. And we're going to come back with, uh, Kenny Dark Poet Lappins. We're, we're doing a, a, a Tough love podcast here for you artists that feel like I paint great, but why isn't anybody looking at my art?

[00:21:02] Well, it might be a little more rudimentary and straightforward than you realize. We'll be back. You're on Strung Out. Hey, want to show your support of Martin's artist endeavors? Buy me a coffee is an online site that makes supporting Marty easy. In just a few taps, you can make a payment of any amount and no account is needed.

[00:21:26] You can also decide to become an ongoing supporter. Go to martinmcormack. com and click on the words support Martin. Let's help Martin keep it all caffeinated.

[00:21:49] Freedom,

[00:21:53] such a beautiful word Wonder if you've heard All about freedom Freedom comes with a fee To get liberty Freedom, such a funny thing We think we are free Next moment we lose it Freedom, the enemy Of those who fear Liberty We act like it's free And freedom is free Free for the taking We can only have liberty With freedom From wanting to move free Freedom From fear of never being free Freedom To pray our way openly Freedom, freedom

[00:23:00] Someday, have we lost our way? Well, this is a freedom, freedom Always over that hill if we take it seriously Freedom, we can disagree, but still agree To live in liberty Liberty dies in the blink of an eye And then we are not truly free Such a precious thing to live and never tease. Such a precious dream for those who can only dream of Freedom, wanting to be free.

[00:23:46] Freedom, the fear of never being free. Freedom, to pray our way openly. Freedom, freedom.

[00:24:45] Don't

[00:25:05] freedom.

[00:25:09] Yeah, we're back. Um, we are talking the serious talk of, of art. And if you're an artist that's painted, And you feel very serious about your art, you know exactly what we're talking about because, you know, not everybody's an outgoing person, not everybody has marketing skills, but yet you, you brought up a great point before the, uh, uh, the break that you have to get yourself out there.

[00:25:53] In order for people to see you, you know, it was serendipitous that the guy, you know, with Harrington's grandson that saw the CTA, I mean, that's, those are, those are gifts from God, you know, that fall into your lap, but nine times out of ten, it's, it's really just the hustle that's involved. Right. And finding people, you know, I think, uh, There's nothing wrong in finding people that are patrons and boosters and believers in you.

[00:26:24] It's a huge thing because otherwise You are a starving artist. Uh, right. We don't live in Europe and the, the, or, or in Canada where the, uh, the method of promoting the arts is much more on a, a local level. Mm-Hmm. much more, um, uh, aggressive. Mm-Hmm. , uh, a guy like you, you know, if you were in, in Europe, would be getting a stipend and, you know.

[00:26:51] Right, right. And you'd have to wear a beret every day. , . And you would look good, man. Um. Let's get away a little bit from the marketing aspect and get into your creative aspect. Uh, you know, again, um, you're like me in the sense that you keep lists. And you keep lists for your art and your inspiration. And it's intriguing, but it sounds like it's out of practicality that you, you say, okay, here comes the weekend and I can, I can do my art.

[00:27:23] Right. Does that free you then, like, you know, when you have the, uh, Saturday, Sunday, you know, does that, giving yourself permission to paint like that? Yeah. Giving, giving yourself permission to paint is really important. To. Make mistakes to try things once. And then, yeah, I didn't do that exactly right, but I'm going to learn from that and do it differently the second time.

[00:27:49] Um, and to let things ruminate, you know, right now, as we sit here, I am thinking about a painting that I am required to do. Brushstrokes with Cancer, and, uh, I have met with the inspiration that I'm, I'm working with right now, and she told me some stories. And we have. landed on the topic that I'm going to paint.

[00:28:13] Um, and so it's in my head and I'm thinking about it. Right. And I've been looking at famous, uh, artists that have done similar things to this, and I put them in a note on my phone. So I have like 15 paintings there. Uh, and it's, I'm trusting that my brain is working on it, even though I might not be conscious of it.

[00:28:38] And that has to be true because there are times where I've sat down in a blank canvas like this and there's nothing there. Right. And then a couple hours later, it is there and it was what I wanted it to look like. Right. And like I said, I never take any classes so I don't know how to get from there to there and somehow it happens.

[00:28:58] It's, it's, it's, it's the miracle of it. Right. You know, to have that transcendent moment where. Uh, it does finally get on to the canvas. But you just brought up something that I think is equally transcendent and probably a thousand times more important, and that is the, the painting in the mind. The, uh, the creation in the mind where, you know, Yeah.

[00:29:25] If you, if you would've talked to your inspiration, the person that had the, the, the cancer experience and said, okay, you know, here's the canvas and let's go. Mm-Hmm. , you know, you know the, the, so opening up your mind being stimulated, probably, uh, I'm, I'm assuming nature, whatever, or day to day or maybe even your work.

[00:29:49] Um. That gives you that ability, right? I mean, Yeah, that's exactly right. Uh, I, I, I don't do a lot of abstract painting. I've only done three abstract paintings. Um, because I, I am not somebody who has the ability to form an abstract image in my mind. Um, and so the three X abstract paintings that I've done have been structured in such a way that I didn't have to have that in my mind.

[00:30:23] So the first one I did, um, was. I was painting something else and it had a really dirty brush that had like five different colors on it. And I went like that. And I'm like, whoa, that was really cool. And so I did an entire painting of that. I didn't know exactly what it was going to look like, but I knew that I wanted to do a dirty brush painting that had this.

[00:30:44] And so, and it's, I love it. It's one of my favorite paintings. And then I did a second abstract painting in which I did that. And then on top of it, I put some squares that I had painted on another painting as part of the building. It's really cool. And that was the abstract painting that I did there. And then I have another one, that's sitting right over there, that's a bunch of dots.

[00:31:03] Yeah. And that painting, um, I had done a painting with a tree, and the, the leaves in the tree were that same set of dots. And my daughter said to me, Hey, you should do a painting of just the dots. And so I did. And again, it was structured in such a way that I didn't exactly know what it was going to look like, but I had this idea that I'm going to do a painting with dots.

[00:31:26] Mm hmm. Um, so Uh, and, and the same thing is true of my structured paintings. Um, I already know in my head, I want to do a fire station, I want to do a gas station, I want to do an L train, I want to do this building, I want to do the CTA overpass by Bryn Mawr because I think it's really cool. Yeah. I want to do the, the, the, the Baha'i Temple because it's beautiful.

[00:31:48] So I have that already laid out. Right. Which is important because again, I can't draw. So, you know, when I sketch out the outline of the painting, it's very rough and horrible and I would never, do you, do you use, uh, you do sketch out then you don't, uh, or, or do you, or is that stuff even necessary?

[00:32:10] Sometimes if you, uh, are going at it? You know, and it's in your mind. Uh, I mean, you can always correct, you know, acrylic's very forgiving sometimes, you know. Right, right. Yeah, no, I, I, I generally, the way I generally paint is that I will find the image. And either that's I'm walking down the street and I take a photograph of the building that I want to do, or I search Google for, hey, show me the Fulton Market District of Chicago.

[00:32:40] Right. And give me a picture. And, and that's, that's That's your inspiration there. That's my inspiration. And I, so I, I will either print out that photograph that I've taken and put it next to the, to the canvas while I'm painting, or I'll have an image on my laptop or on my phone next to it, and I try to draw it out.

[00:32:58] Now, perspective is very difficult for me. Mm-Hmm. . Fortunately, my youngest daughter. Uh, is studying to be an architect right now, so she offered to help me with the perspective. It's a family affair, man. That's, uh, yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. Uh, and so I, I have that image next to me while I'm painting. But again, I, I go off of that because I don't do the colors, um, naturalistically.

[00:33:23] And I can't, and therefore don't worry about straight lines. Right. Um, and so, you know, and that, those two things combined, the, the not having straight lines and the exaggerated colors, really have become the hallmark of, of my style. And it's interesting to me because those things are a result of my level of ability.

[00:33:46] If I could paint straight lines, my art would look completely different. Well, and, and, You're, yeah, you, you know, uh, you're, you're, uh, as I like to say, you're cursed with a blessing. Right. And the fact that by not being able to draw these straight lines, uh, you have come up with this really, really warm, um, and, uh, uh, it's, it's a gentle, uh, each one of these images that I see, they're very gentle, um, is the word that comes into my mind.

[00:34:19] It's, uh, invading. And, uh, and that's, you know, who wouldn't want that in their home, you know, is the way I look at it, as opposed to some artists, myself included, like, you know, I'm, I'm the kind of guy, like, you know, I'm trying to get that line, you know, and it's, you know, but before we take a break, I just want to ask you a silly artist question.

[00:34:41] How clean is your palate? Do you, are you the kind of guy that, you know, um, Take that brush, you know, you say the dirty brush, you know, and will you let that white, you know, that, uh, kind of, so yes. All right. So I, I generally use this as my palette. And as you can see, there are, there are distinct areas for the paint to go.

[00:35:05] Um, and I would generally choose ten colors and put each one in one of these areas and then leave a couple of them open so that I can mix if I need to. So you choose your colors. I choose my colors first. Wow. Interesting. Right. So that's, that's what I do. I'll have the image of what I want to paint on my laptop or on a piece of paper next to me.

[00:35:31] Then I will go choose ten colors. Fun. Um, and. Again, they are only the colors that I like at that moment. They have nothing to do with the painting. I opened up my cabinet right there that has, you know, uh, there's probably a hundred bottles of paint in there, right? And I'll just look around and like, Oh, I love that orange.

[00:35:51] Oh, and of course there's purple and there's plum and I'm going to need a green and a blue. Um, I don't necessarily need a red here, but let's do this thing, and I will then lay these paints out here and put them on the can, on the tray, uh, on the palette, and I will start. And, and usually the first thing I do is the sky, uh, cause almost, almost all my paintings have some element of sky in them, um, and, you know, what color is the sky gonna be?

[00:36:22] I don't know, until I put my painting, my paintbrush in Marlo's palette. But it's just like. Let's start. It does. It does. All right. We're going to take a quick break here. We're coming right back and continuing along the, uh, the inspiration, the arting, uh, the artist, uh, artistry, the magic that's involved with Kenny, uh, Dark Poet Lappins and, uh, the way he treats a canvas, uh, which is pretty darn good.

[00:36:48] You are watching or listening to Strung Out. Don't go away. Alexa, play Relevant Elephant by Martin McCormack. Here's Relevant Elephant by Martin Lawrence McCormack on Amazon Music.

[00:37:13] We're back and, uh, and we had to take that break right when Kenny's starting to choose the sky. Do you paint the sky all the way down? Uh, yeah, that's a great question. Um, I, again, have difficulty with perspective and, uh, being an untrained artist, but again, I've done that purposely. I have taken the advice that I heard at my very first painting experience to not, to not learn anything just because I will then discover this all on my own.

[00:37:47] Um, and so when I do start and I paint, there's only one or two paintings in which. The sky is an integral part of the painting. Uh, one of my most successful paintings is the El Sunset, and it shows the Chicago Henge, um, yeah, feeling. And, and of course there it's very important. The, the sky is the correct color and, and glows out from the middle.

[00:38:10] Uh, but generally my skies will be whatever color it is that I've chosen to start, and then I will just paint it. Hopefully I've. sketched out what the painting is and I will know where the building starts or whatever. And so I will paint the sky within those areas that need to have sky on them. Um, although sometimes I do go farther down just so it doesn't look like there's a, you know, a spot.

[00:38:35] Oh, you can see he stopped painting there. When you choose a canvas, do you, do you, um, . Let's say you're gonna do the Chicago skyline or whatever. Mm-Hmm. . Are you looking for a canvas or are you, like, me, you just shopped at Michael's and they just had a three for one sale, on, uh, you know, one inch, you know, and you're like, oh, I got a gut case.

[00:38:56] And, you know, now you, you're like, okay, I better pay it on these things. . Well, I mean, you know, uh, what's the advice for, uh, somebody painting a, a, a a canvas, especially somebody that, um, you know, that they, uh. They're just kind of getting going with it. Should they, uh, should they go for a big canvas? Do you like little canvas?

[00:39:18] What, what's your, what's your preference? My preferred size, and I wouldn't say preferred size, but the majority of my paintings are 16 by 20. Okay. And again, that's a, like you said, go to Michael's and, and, and buy the canvas. Uh, I get very terrified by very large canvases. My, my biggest painting is, um, the face of the CTA and it's a big portrait of an L train coming right at you.

[00:39:44] Um, and it's three feet by two feet and that scared me just to see that gigantic canvas. Again, I'm going to use the same techniques that I've always used, but now it's so much bigger. It's three times the size of a, of a canvas that I'm used to. Um, and it, it took me a little bit longer to paint it, but again, it didn't, it didn't fall within, um, It didn't fall outside my norms, um, and so generally my paintings are 16 by 20, uh, because again, that was the size that I learned on at that painting class that first time, uh, and although sometimes I do long, uh, paintings, if I'm doing a skyline for example, so those are 36 by 12.

[00:40:23] Right. And, uh, I sometimes will paint those lengthwise, for example, I did the Leaning Tower of Niles as opposed to the Leaning Tower of Pisa. I did the Leaning Tower of Niles. Listen, man, that's a beautiful building. Yeah. Um, right near my in laws. Um, I, I, I, I'm totally with you. Uh, large canvases, not only are they time consuming, but they're daunting.

[00:40:48] Mm hmm. Uh, which brings me up to a question I have for you. Um Um, you know, you're, you're, you're like me, a list keeper and a goal setter. So when you're setting a goal, uh, for, for yourself, are you setting a, uh, this is what I want to see accomplished in a year? Or are you the kind of person that's like, um, this is what I, you know, I, I want, you know, I want to be in like, for me, I, I was like, okay, I want to be in three exhibitions and I want to have a total stranger by canvas.

[00:41:25] Um, I won't tell you how I'm doing. We're talking, we're interviewing Kenny, um, how does that work? Is that, is that important? Is that necessary for an artist to kind of have that pressure because. If you don't, what's the alternative? Right, right, yeah. No, my, my goals are painting by painting. Okay. So, I, you know, again, like I said earlier, I have this one painting I'm working on in my head right now, and I'm probably not going to do anything else until I finish that.

[00:41:54] Mm hmm. Um, and I, do I have goals with regard to how many shows I want to be in a year? Not necessarily. I mean, like, for example, I did say I wanted to be, you know, in that Thou Be gallery, uh, which is true and I've wanted that for a long time. But again, it just fell in my lap. It wasn't something that I, That, that, uh, you know, I ever thought I could actually do, but I put myself out there, I sent emails to the people that were in that gallery and, and one of them responded, um, which is nice.

[00:42:26] I mean, you, you made the effort, so it didn't just fall on your lap, but you, you nudged it towards your lap. I nudged it towards my lap. And I think that's, what's important is that you, you do need to make a certain amount of effort. You could be, there are certainly painters out there right now that are sitting in their house.

[00:42:43] With a bunch of paintings and nobody even knows our painter and you know, either they don't care or they have, you know, a social anxiety, um, and, and, and have no desire to actually have people look at their work. You know, there's lots of actors who never look at their movies once they finish them. Sure.

[00:42:59] Um. So sure, I want to be in galleries and shows and I go on those websites like the Chicago Artists Resource, uh, and look for them and apply to the ones that I think I have the best chance of doing. I also try not to apply the ones that have a 35 application fee because again, if I did that for every one of that I did, I would have absolutely no money whatsoever.

[00:43:24] Uh, there is that side of it where, you know, you have to, you have to pony up. Money to get in and that doesn't assure that you're going to get into it either. That's the crazy thing about it. Um, Are you a positive person generally? Very much so. Okay. There, there is a Equation that I try to live by and that is the outcome Equals the event times your reaction to it.

[00:44:00] So there's an event that happens and the outcome of that event will depend entirely on your reaction to it. So, you know, the, the Zen Buddhists believe that life is pain and you can either accept that or rebel against it. And if you rebel against it, you're going to constantly be butting up against it because it doesn't go away.

[00:44:27] Reality is reality. And either you are flowing with it, or you are rebelling against it. What would be a good mantra that you would want to give to an artist, uh, to help them get through the, uh, Is there one that you can, you know, here you are, advertising writer, I'm throwing you your thing. Get right to it, man.

[00:44:51] And I need this in 30 seconds. Um, is there, I mean, do you have something like, you know, do you have a little thing that you say, you know, I'm just a hypothetical Kenny. You're a great artist and you're going to. You're going to change, you know, you're going to make somebody happy or, you know, do you have a Kennyism that you can share with the, uh, all your new fans?

[00:45:16] My goal is to affect people on a personal, intimate level. And that can happen individually when I look at my paintings in a gallery. Or on my website or wherever they encounter them on Instagram, wherever it is. And that is entirely my goal. That's awesome. Is to, is to make somebody go, huh. That's my goal to make somebody go, huh, look at that painting.

[00:45:52] What a beautiful thing. And then walk away. And, and, and I've, and I've done that. I have sat back I take off my, my, my jacket and I sit back and just become somebody that people don't know. And I watch people look at my paintings and every time someone goes and then they move on to the next, I live in that moment where they stood there and they've appreciated it and they've formed some judgment one way or another in their mind and then they moved on for that moment of time.

[00:46:28] I affected them. Yeah. And that's all you can hope for. And if you're really great, that's going to happen a lot. And then things are going to come from it. Um, but again, I don't measure myself by outside, uh, stimulus. I, my own, uh, self worth is based on how successful I believe I am. Based on what I've decided I want to do, like you said earlier, you know, your, your, your family are all, you know, in the, in the business world and I'll, and same thing, I have three other brothers, two of them are lawyers and other ones are mortgage banker.

[00:47:14] I have an artist and they're, you know, financially he's more successful than I am, but I, again, don't measure myself. Based on that 'cause then I would be a dismal failure. Sure. Unhappy. Unhappy. You can't walk in that world. Yeah. It's like, it's like the fish who is sad because he can't climb the tree well, but you also swim in the ocean and a bird can't do that.

[00:47:39] So, uh, you know, you have to hold on to what makes you an individual. And as an artist you have to hold on to what makes your art. different and unique and something that makes people stop and appreciate it. And it doesn't matter how long that lasts, that moment where they're looking at your painting, uh, and if it inspires them to buy it or not.

[00:48:07] As an artist, I am just looking for someone to take one moment out of their day and just appreciate it. Yeah. I'm looking for that moment. And then when I achieve it, I am a heavy person. We're going to leave it at that because I can't add anything to that, that, uh, that that's probably the best advice I've heard in a long time.

[00:48:34] And it's advice, even myself, I can take. And, um, I want to thank you so much for inviting me into your home. Uh, I love, I love your studio. I love the fact that so much joy is produced in such a confined space. You don't have to, you don't have to be something huge. You just, you just be and do. And that's, that's half the battle.

[00:49:00] One last question before we sign off though. When, how, how long do you hold on to your tubes of paint? Until they're empty. And do you find yourself like going through a, like Blick or Michaels or whatever, and you're like, you know, I can't remember exactly what I have. So I have so many of the same bottles of paint in my cabin right now.

[00:49:24] It's ridiculous. Yeah. I also, I also had like three bottles of, of, uh, of soy sauce in the fridge. Cause every time I go to the store, I buy it again. So, yeah, that happens all the time. So, you're not alone there, folks, either. And I, I suffer from the same, uh, same thing. And, uh, again, uh, folks, check out the art of Kenny Dark Poet Lebens, a great Chicago artist, and what a pleasure to have you on Strung Out.

[00:49:52] And, uh, we're gonna be back, uh, with, uh, another show coming down the pike. And, uh, so, as always, thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. for listening. And if you believe in this, you know what to do. Go to buy me a coffee and, and buy me a coffee. All right. We'll see you guys later. Bye bye. Thank you for listening.

[00:50:12] For more information about this show or a transcript, visit martinmccormack. com. While there, sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung Out.

[00:50:31] There's no sense at all. A swan song wasn't part of the deal, was no good call. Givin no choice, givin no space.