Strung Out Episode 233: Meet Ma Gilmore

In this episode of Strung Out, host Martin Laurence McCormack sits down with the endearing and compassionate "Ma" Gilmore. Known to fans of the Mr. Marty Show as a nurturing figure and dispenser of wisdom, Ma shares her remarkable life story. From her early days in Tulsa, her adventures teaching in Taiwan, to her journey through acting and singing, Ma's candid reflections reveal the experiences that shaped her empathetic nature. We delve into her family history, the challenges she faced, and the values that guide her. Tune in to discover why Rebecca Gilmore is a much-loved figure and learn about her philosophy of life, compassion, and resilience.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to Strung Out, the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist. Your host is the artist, writer, and musician, Martin Lawrence McCormack. Now here's Marty. Hey, welcome to Strung Out, and for those of you that are fans of the Mr. Marty Show, I have with me Ma Gilmore and it dawned on me at one point was that, uh, there's a lot of people that don't know who Ma Gilmore is.

[00:00:34] Rebecca Gilmore, the Ma and the Ma Gilmore and, um, and she's kind of like a, on the show, she's like a Ma to everyone, uh, dispensing advice and such. But today, I just thought it would be kind of fun to talk to you to, to go into, uh, who Ma Gilmore is, and that's what this, uh, this interview is all about. I love it.

[00:00:59] So, you, um, I've known you, we've, probably about 20 years or so. And, uh, it was kind of, uh, her son, uh, was an intern, played with a switchback back in the day, during the 90s, really. Um, and, uh, he was a drummer, and we kind of took him under the wing, him and, uh, and, uh, Matt Nelson, and, uh, took them on the road, and, um, and that's how we got to know each other, because you started coming up to some of the shows, and probably to make sure that we were on the up and up.

[00:01:36] And take care of my son, probably, you know. No, you're, you're, uh, an Oklahoma gal. And, uh, yeah. So Tulsa and so how did you, uh, tell us about your early days, early days. Okay. Well, I grew up in Tulsa. I went to Will Rogers High School, um, beautiful high school, and I went to Tulsa University and, um, met my husband there.

[00:02:07] I had been married before and had, uh, lived in Taiwan. And while in Taiwan, I taught English at the Chinese, uh, Air Force Academy. Wow. Wow. And, uh, that was an experience. Experience in itself. I loved it there, but I had to come home. I got a divorce. I had two kids bringing with them With them, I, um, I just, uh, didn't know exactly what to, I wanted to do at that time.

[00:02:38] I loved acting, I loved singing, um, but my, my mom had been hurt when I was very young and so I kind of, uh, grew up taking care of her. And she, what, she had an accident. A boat accident. Right. So, was she in a wheelchair or what? She was in a wheelchair. She, uh, the, well, it's kind of graphic and I don't, don't think anybody wants to know it, but she is a miracle lady or was a miracle lady.

[00:03:08] Uh, the propeller hit her head. Oh, wow. And they had to take, um, all of her, uh, speech, all of her hearing, all of her sight, um, and through this wonderful, wonderful surgeon, um, He thought that she would not be able to that she would be had to have to be put in a home Oh, well for the rest of her life, and I was only four but she surprised them and she he would come in the surgeon would come in and said hi Pat and you know, and you would Look her over and make sure she was okay And one day the nurse came running out and said you know Pat said goodbye, and he said, that's impossible.

[00:03:56] He went in, and he said goodbye, Pat. She said, I've already told you goodbye. So, her memory was there, her speech was there, her sight was there, and the only thing she couldn't do was to get information from her brain to her legs. She had full feeling in her legs, but couldn't get them to talk. So her brain kind of rewired.

[00:04:23] It rewired. One of those things you'd hear about, you know. Well, she is the reason we're hearing more and more about people's brains remapping because after she passed away, she donated her body and specific, she was asked to her brain. And uh, now people are learning how to remap their brains. People that they think is impossible to do, to be able to walk, to be able, you know, talk.

[00:04:53] And she was an avid reader. So I get the reading part when she was, uh, small and this is probably more than you want to hear about, but when she was small, she had a radio show when she really was a kid. Yeah. And, uh, in fact, she was well known in the Tulsa area and she got to, um, dance with, uh, the seven little boys.

[00:05:17] Is that what, uh, you remember that you wouldn't remember, but I've heard of him. I mean, back in the old radio show days, you know, how cool is that? It was, it was cool. And your, uh, your dad was a geologist? He was a geologist. He was a famous geologist. We got to travel all over the United States. States and he got to travel around the world, uh, giving talks about geology and where to find the oil, uh, what not to do.

[00:05:53] He was very against fracking. Uh, and when fracking was well known and they were doing it and he, you can't do that. You're changing things and you're not going to find the oil any faster. You can't do that. So he traveled around the world, uh, but we would spend summers in Michigan and, uh, We went to Wisconsin and I had lived when I was little, little, um, or barely born in Wyoming and Colorado and North Dakota and South Dakota.

[00:06:32] So all kind of natural resource areas for so many minerals and, uh, And gas and oil and absolutely still and coal and kind of works against them to some degree, uh, because in this era of where we want to try to conserve the world, you know, from greenhouse gases. And yes, but that's a, that's a challenge.

[00:06:58] But with, with your, your parents then, um, did you go to college? Yes, I did. Where'd you go? I went to Tulsa University. And in fact, that's where I met Michael, my husband of 51 years now. And, um, we, when I decided I, my parents were trying to get me to be a nurse, uh, because I had so much compassion and, and knew what to do.

[00:07:27] And they thought, oh, that'd be a good fit. I didn't want to be a nurse. I, uh, I wanted to be an actress. I wanted to sing. Uh, but. They, they said, okay, go to TU for a while. Well, I went and I was in ROTC and it was the first time that, uh, the, um, Air Force was accepting women who had children and were not married.

[00:07:53] Wow. And so you were kind of a groundbreaker there. Yeah, groundbreaker there. Met Michael and after two years of ROTC, he graduated and was in the Air Force as, as a lieutenant at that time. And, uh, we got married and moved to Florida. And from Florida, we threw a, a dart and it landed on L. A. Now, we knew one person in L.

[00:08:24] A. that we thought of, my aunt, and we moved there. No job, nothing, but it became the best thing we ever did. Why was it the best thing you ever did? I mean, uh, we had to think on our own. We were away from parents. Were you still in the military at the time? So you guys were both out? We were both, yeah, out.

[00:08:45] And, uh, and, uh, he got a job, uh, with, uh, the power, uh, company, electric power company. in LA, uh, writing manuals and, and, uh, doing things like that, which helped us. He also went to the best college for extra credit for radio and for TV film, um, which was the free LACC, Los Angeles Community College. It was free.

[00:09:15] And, uh, they had people who were in the business. They had the Johnny Carson Show, Tonight Show, uh, uh, producer and director. Uh, as, um, one of their, you know, their, uh, professors. And he got to take classes like that at night. And so that, working during the day, going to school at night, he would take one of the boys.

[00:09:42] That time we only had three children with him to school and they got to spend time. So that was fun. What brought you guys then, uh, from L. A. out to the Midwest? Well, uh, my, uh, mom's mom was very out. Mom, uh, was not able to, of course, be able to go and see her or talk to her. So Mike got a job in, in, uh, Tulsa, and we moved to Wagner, Oklahoma, which was on the lake that my mom was hurt on.

[00:10:17] We had a cabin there. Uh, and, uh, so I helped with, uh, taking my mom to, to her mom's and, uh, then he got a job. We needed more money, got a job in Chicago with NPR, WBEC, and for 37 years he was there. And what was Mike's role there? He was like the engineer, the engineer, the engineer, holding it all together.

[00:10:45] Yeah. Holding it together. Even during the pandemic. I mean, how do you run a radio station from your home? Yeah. Yeah. It was, you know, you had to think real fast. Oh, yeah. So, you know, well, uh, we are interviewing Ma Gilmore here on Strung Out, uh, long overdue, uh, Rebecca Gilmore. And, uh, before we take a break, I wanted to ask you, are you, uh, are you an only child?

[00:11:15] I am an only child. Wow. And, uh, wow. I look at you with all the kids and I'm like, I wish I had that. I always wanted a brother and a sister. So you wanted brothers and sisters. I think about that with Anya. You know, but um, but there's something special about being an only child. It is. So we're going to delve a little more into that because um, one of the things that makes Ma Gilmore Ma is you brought up the word you're a very compassionate person.

[00:11:49] It doesn't surprise me that your parents wanted you to be like a nurse or something like that. Back in that time, you know, nurse or school teacher, you know, that would be the kind of thing, but, but she's our ma, and we're gonna get into why, why ma is ma, and, uh, we'll take a little break, and you are watching or listening to Strung Out.

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[00:15:47] We are back with Ma Gilmore and you, uh, you are one of these people that, uh, I feel you are like a famous person masquerading as an everyday kind of person. And what I mean by that is you, you have this ability of, uh, um, You have a lot of wisdom. You have a lot of empathy and insight and you have, you've lived a very large life, you know, and, but yet you're a very humble person.

[00:16:26] Um, you're not one of these people that, uh, you know, uh, are living in a McMansion or you're not, you're not of you, you're able to look at the world through the eyes of an artist. And a very sensitive person. How, how did you, you know, that doesn't just naturally occur. You, you had to cultivate that somehow.

[00:16:49] What, what got you to your world outlook and in such a way that you're. You know, a generous spirit. Thank you. I, um, You know, that's an interesting question. I've had lots of people say, Oh, you should write about your life, you know. And I'm like, no. What's different, you know? But there are different things.

[00:17:12] Um, I think compassion comes from my mom. My nana. Uh, she was very, she My nana was one who would Say what can I do for you? And i've carried that in my heart Um, I look at people As if they are and they are my brothers and sisters Uh, I try to see things through their eyes We may be very very different in our outlooks But there is something that always brings me to feeling like there's something that binds us That, uh, just like with you, Marty, I felt you're my son.

[00:17:58] And, and every, every person I meet is my brother or my sister. And I want to know more about them. I want to ask what, what are you about? What is your culture about? Why, why do you do things this way or not this way? Uh, but I listen. Yeah, I think a lot of people don't listen. Yeah, I don't really have time which I find odd to listen to people But they they're too busy and I don't want that I want to be able to sit down with a person and say like we're talking now what what brought you to this?

[00:18:44] Why, why are you the way you are in being friendly and kind in a way? Uh, because they may be extremely different from me. I know my daughter was talking to you that we had people, uh, that have nose rings and tattoos that were at our Christmas, but they're my family. They are there. I may not have bore them.

[00:19:08] I, but they are my family. They are Who I choose to be around. What, you know, did you grow up in, uh, the Latter day Saint faith? Nope. I am, though I am, uh, of the Latter day Saint faith. I attained, when I was in my North Dakota. I'd always wondered, and this is what is me. I, I, Uh, people who, uh, feel, and I don't know your beliefs.

[00:19:38] I, I do in some way know your beliefs, but it's always made me feel that there is heavenly father, there is Jesus Christ, our savior, and there is the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost and a lot of, I grew up Episcopalian, which is similar to Catholic and a different, right. But, um, they, Didn't they thought they were all in one and from a age of about three I knew that I had a Heavenly Father who loved me Mm hmm beyond belief you felt that and felt that and that Jesus Christ my Savior my brother Who loves me.

[00:20:25] And the reason why I'm asking you is because, uh, you know, uh, LDS, like, you know, uh, traditional Catholics and that, they're very conservative. They're very, you know, um, but yeah, you're kind of a, you're kind of a radical. You know, and so you, you kind of, you kind of, uh, I always, I just found that very refreshing that, you know, you know, you, you kind of, uh, uh, go against not, yeah, not, not against the faith itself, but you're not like, you know, uh, a poster child like Mitt Romney or somebody like that, you know, I respect him, but yeah, but you know what I'm talking about?

[00:21:06] Because, uh, uh, there's, uh, there's, uh, you know, uh, you, you have always, it doesn't surprise me that you would take on, uh, Uh, a bunch of people and make it, you know, part of your family and people that are different from you and what is it, your faith in the Trinity and that sort of thing, but, um, it is, and LDS is a family oriented kind of thing.

[00:21:32] So I could see that, but like I said, there's, they always strike me as very conservative. And so, um. But you're not. You're like, you're kind of, where did this wild streak come in? Um, well, I always wanted to be, I wanted to wear long, long pants that, uh, bell bottoms. And, and, uh, I wanted to be a hippie. And I never could do that.

[00:21:59] That was not in what my parents wanted for me. Hard to be a hippie in the ROTC. Yes, I know. I know. I know. But, you know, that, that was the thing I love. Is that, um, I want to know all people. I want to know their religions. And I want to, uh, ask them. I want to learn their cultures. I want, you know, with you and Anya and Annie, I want to know you.

[00:22:29] I can sit down and talk to you. Um, and that's what I feel for most people. I, or for all people, actually. And I'm one that, uh, always wanted to help. I, I've always carried change in my pocket and people always said, why do you do that? Why? You know, don't you know they're, you know, they could get a job. And I said, that's not for me to know or to ask.

[00:22:59] But it is for me to give what I can at that time, and not to judge. Nobody wants to be judged. Right. We're going to take a little break. We're, we're delving into, uh, Gilmore here. Just, uh, and it's, it's fun because, uh, so many people have seen her on the Mr. Marty show and have listened to her wisdom and insights.

[00:23:25] And now we're getting to learn a little bit of, of why she is who she is. So you're watching and listening to Strung Out will be back after this. Hey, wanna show your support of Martin's artist endeavors? Buy me a coffee as an online site that makes supporting Marty easy. In just a few taps, you can make a payment of any amount and no account is needed.

[00:23:51] You can also decide to become an ongoing supporter. Go to martinmccormack. com and click on the words support Martin. Let's help Martin keep it all happening.

[00:24:07] We're back and we have Ma Gilmore here. Rebecca Gilmore, but everybody knows her as Ma on the Mr. Marty Show. Even, uh, people who, uh, don't know her have called her Ma, which I think is great. Um, because you are a Ma. You, you are very much a nurturing, uh, uh, kind of person. And, um, You're also an actress. I am.

[00:24:33] And, uh, tell us a little bit about that because that does play a little bit into the Mr. Marty show, but how did, I mean, you always had, yeah, you always had that acting bug, right? I always, uh, that was one way for me to, uh, be able to handle life. If that makes sense. When I was younger, I was in, uh, theater a lot, uh, and, uh, kept me away from everything that else was going on.

[00:25:03] And then later in life, I'm, uh, I learned to sing and I love to sing. Uh, right now my voice has changed and so it's not. I went from a high soprano to a deep, deep, deep voice. So, so did Joni Mitchell. You're in good company, don't worry. Um, acting was how I feel alive. Okay. Okay. I, I, in a part, well, I've done so many parts.

[00:25:30] I was Aunt Eller in Oklahoma. Chicago. Okay. And, uh, love that part because I could do my okie. And, you know, it came natural. Yeah, it came natural. Uh, I've also been in, which you say I'm kind of radical. I was in Queen, uh, a musical about Queen and I thought, uh, you know, I never liked hearing them. I really did not until I learned.

[00:25:59] How he wrote everything, there are like 10 lines and some notes wouldn't or shouldn't go together, but when he did it, it does. Yeah. And so I, I became, uh, an appreciator of Queen music. Amazing harmonies. Uh, Freddie Mercury was, you know, and, and, uh, uh, Brian May, who was, you know, uh, not too many rock and rollers that are an astrophysicist on the side.

[00:26:27] So they were smart. They're smart. Very smart, uh, not only performers, but, uh, just business people and also, you know, renaissance people. Oh yeah. You know, and that's what I felt. I drew closer to that being, being like a queen person and, uh, earlier in this interview, I, I kind of was talking about the idea that you're like a famous person, you know, uh, that you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, You, you are a larger than life kind of human being, but you're very humble and you, you are in amongst everybody.

[00:27:04] Um, and why not that I'm trying to foist that on you, but I, I think what is important about that is what is the value of living an authentic life? Ah, that's a good question. Um. Uh, back to Shakespeare, to th own, own self. Be true. Um, you know, that is the most important. Be truthful to yourself. Mm-hmm . Don't light others, but be truthful to yourself.

[00:27:40] And wisdom comes through challenges. Mm-hmm . People who have had no badness for a better word, badness in their lives. How do you learn being going through the difficult? If you don't have the difficult to learn from and through my life I have had some really big challenges. There are times that Mike and I in LA before he got the job We were living on rice.

[00:28:14] We through our Mormon heritage. We had a year's worth of of food But it only lasted like six months, you know, and, and I went outside one day, we were down to our last cup of rice and I, I went out to the porch and I screamed thinking nobody will come out, nobody cares. And everybody in that, that apartment complex came out to see what was wrong with me.

[00:28:44] And I thought that somebody listened, somebody cared. And, uh, like, Within a few days, Mike had the job. We were moving out of an apartment into a house, and so that fate of getting through hard, hard times, um, as a child, we talked about my dad, and a famous geologist. But for his own family, when he took on the challenge of keep being with my mom, And he took it for the wrong reason, uh, for the fame, Oh, you're doing so good, you're doing, you know?

[00:29:25] And when you do something like that, it does nobody any good. Um, and we would have, he was, he could be a mean drunk. I could say that, you know? Um, people who have grown up with alcoholism. That is a, that's a hard challenge. It's hard. Uh, but people would come to our door when the, the oil companies were firing people who were 55, 60.

[00:29:54] They didn't, they gonna hire younger and cheaper. And people came to my dad's door and this one man, I don't know his name, dad was gone. He came to the door and he said, thank your dad. He got me a job. I can pay my bills. He's so wonderful. And in my heart, I had to find a forgiveness for my dad for what he was so nice to others.

[00:30:27] Why couldn't he have been nice to my mom or me? Uh, it was like we were a challenge in his life. We were, you know, whatever went wrong, I remember, I'd kind of hide because anything that went wrong, you know. I'd be blamed for now. Maybe I didn't do it. You know, right? Yeah, I did. Um, but that was hard for me.

[00:30:50] Sure. That was hard. So when you meet challenges like that, you get through them. And then the first thing that you should do is forgive. He's gone now. It took me a long time to forgive. But once I did, it was like, Oh, Okay, I can get on. I can help others through that challenge if they need it. I can help my family who may be going through things.

[00:31:18] And, you know, um, nothing is too big that your faith can't, can't help. Your, nothing is too big that the challenge there is to learn how to get through it, not to, uh, ask people. necessarily for help. But if you need to, then by all means, because somebody else may have been through the same thing you've been through.

[00:31:48] As we get toward the end of this interview, one of the questions I wanted to ask you is, uh, when you give your talks on the show, I always get the sense that you are coming from a place of experience. I am. And I also get the sense that, uh, you. Are able to dispense the right nugget of wisdom at the right moment for people that are, are, are, are listening.

[00:32:20] What, what do you think, uh, is the biggest challenge for people that are out there today? You know, you've, you've lived a very active and, uh, um, an amazing life. You've been around the world, you know, all over the place. And now that you have this presence on. You know, this YouTube show and you've been doing it consistently now for three, four years running, at least, um, what is it that you see is needed most by people that you are trying to reach out and give?

[00:32:59] I think the most important thing, besides listening, um, Don't judge your neighbor for what they may say, what they may do. Never judge. Um, also, build up an inner strength within yourself to let yourself know that you can get through anything. That tomorrow will be different. Tomorrow is always ahead of us.

[00:33:30] That the present, be focused on the present, but always know that tomorrow comes. Things can change in an instant if you're very depressed or down Tomorrow will be better. You can make it better. Um, I focus on when I we have themes and What should? I say, what things can I give that people might relate to?

[00:34:00] Might, maybe they're having a bad day or maybe they're not so into Christmas. I mean, last night, um, what I said on, you know, about helping one person and that, if you get outside of yourself and help that person, then you're helping yourself. You are building yourself. a strength and Who knows I may need to count on you one day and and so um Write down The challenges you've had write down not just the challenges, but what have you learned?

[00:34:43] because learning Challenges are for us to learn from they're you know, no bigger thing is, you know, if We have no food or no job, it can always change. I know you've had a lot of challenges with your health. Yes. And, uh, you know, uh, as we all get older, mortality is always such a, an interesting thing. Uh huh.

[00:35:07] Uh, you know, is there something that you feel that, uh, You know, you want to be remembered for, I'm not saying you're going anywhere. Um, but is, is, does that matter to you or is it just the, the, you know, or is it more important just to be in the moment with others or, uh, I'm not trying to give you a softball question.

[00:35:37] Uh, what I, what I want. For you to talk about is, I guess, why, um, you know, you, you've been giving this, dispensing this goodness for such a long time. Why is that so important to you? Why is that important? Um, well, I haven't reached my graduation day yet, as we call it. Okay, we all have it, you know. Um, But I would, I would hope, not so much of acting talents or singing, I would hope that people would remember me as someone who deeply cares, who loves without restriction, who always tries to give from my heart, always is seeking to give those instructions to others Thank you.

[00:36:35] So that they may, might live a long, vibrant life and to always remember, no matter how difficult it is, what you learn will be the best lesson you have ever learned. And that's what makes you really a mother on so many levels. And that's what I love about you, Ma. Um, yeah. Um, And I think, uh, you know, people can reach Ma.

[00:37:08] She's, uh, through, through the show. You can contact Ian. Absolutely. And, uh, you know, uh, she's there to, uh, um, dispense. Dispense. Or to listen. Or to listen. And, uh, you know, I, I, I, I want to thank you so much for what you have been giving to people and being, um, uh, a role model to me. Um, on how to move through life with grace, uh, to take on suffering and, and learn from it.

[00:37:43] But also, uh, just, um, that empathy that you have for other people in a world that doesn't value empathy that much these days, I think is what, uh, I'm hoping you, the viewer and the listener come away with, uh, from this interview with Ma, because Now that you've seen this, hopefully this will inspire you to listen to her every week on the show.

[00:38:11] Um, I would, nothing more would I love than to, uh, hear comments. Yeah. You know, and I really, um, and you should write a book, uh, and, and, you know, because that would, uh, You know, you've had, like I said, just a story filled life, a kind of life that people would make a movie out of then. And hopefully we've been able to, we're just scratching the surface on Ma, and we'll have to get you back into the chair.

[00:38:43] Maybe as the year progresses just to, uh, to check back in on, on, um, uh, what's, what's Ma thinking now? As the world turns. As the world turns. But, um, uh, again, I want to thank you and this was long overdue to, to have, uh, an interview with Ma because, um, She's like I said, just a big shining light in my life, and I want to thank you guys for continuing to Hang in here with the podcast and again invite you to also check out the Mr.

[00:39:19] Marty community It's it's our online art commune I think of trying to create a little little community of like minded people in a world that's a Working really hard at driving people apart. And that's, uh, that's where we're at. So, until next time, be well, and we'll see you later. Peace. Peace. Good job, Ma.

[00:39:44] Yeah. Oh, I love you. Love you too. Thank you for listening. For more information about this show or a transcript, visit martinmccormack. com. While there, sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung Out. Social

[00:40:04] wrongs, pain we feel. There's no sense at all. A swan song wasn't part of the deal. Wasn't no good at all.