Strung Out Episode 235: WINTER CAMPING WITH EXPERT KATE VOGEL. PART TWO

Join us for another episode of Strung Out with artist, writer, and musician Martin Laurence McCormack. In Episode 235, we dive into part two of our winter camping series with expert Kate Vogel. In this episode, Marty and Kate discuss the nuances of winter camping, including dealing with bathrooms in the wild, essential first aid tips, and how to keep warm during emergencies. Learn about the hidden beauties and challenges of camping during the cold months and gain valuable insights into making your winter adventure safe and enjoyable. Don't miss out on this informative and engaging conversation!

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to strung out the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist Your host is the artist writer and musician martin lawrence mccormack. Now, here's marty Welcome to Strung Out and this is our second podcast about winter camping. I've got my expert Kate Vogel who has spent many years out there in the wild, the great wild, and um, we just uh, just uh, heard some geese flying in and we're not that far away.

[00:00:34] Actually, full disclosure, we're out in the suburbs of Chicago, but this is like the perfect, Uh, area where you can go camping. Uh, you can, you can get out into the outdoors. And Kate's a big advocate of, uh, the idea that we need to connect with nature, but connect at times of the year, which are not like the typical time.

[00:00:56] Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, if you look at, you know, I mean, these major national parks that we have, I mean, you look at a Yellowstone in June, you're waiting hours, right? You know, you're, you're sitting in line that are looking at the Buffalo and absolutely. And you're not really getting that. Yeah.

[00:01:12] But it is open in January. It's open in February. You know, before we're going to talk a little bit about, uh, uh, winter camping, some of the stuff that's, uh, or, or camping in general, some of the stuff that people get squeamish about. But my question before we jump into that is, um. What do you recommend state parks first or go for like a national park if you're if you're let's let's just say you're We're assuming that you're living in a place that it where it snows, okay Right.

[00:01:44] Well, yeah, but I mean you can travel, you know, you can you can travel to it to get to any of those you Like the outer, you know the boundary water. Yeah, I I like everywhere around the Great Lakes I mean, I think it's a it is a beautiful especially the boundary waters. This is a A place that, you know, both America and Canada have worked together to designate as a wildlife place that will remain in hopes forever.

[00:02:08] But that we are supposed to still partake in. Um, I definitely see humans, you know, I'm a North American primate. I belong here. And I need to be able to interact with my woods. My lakes, my animals. Um, you know, and we have to be, and I'd say, you know, it's back to John Muir. We have to be good stewards of the environment, and we are not good stewards of the environment if we're never actually seeing it, right?

[00:02:31] If you're out there and you're signing a petition to, you know, save, save this type of eagle from those woods, I would encourage you to go to those woods. See why it's so important. See why that is such a beautiful thing to see. See that That particular birds place in the whole ecosystem, but a lot of Americans.

[00:02:49] We dismiss, uh, winter because we're working or we don't, you know, aside from the holiday vacation, uh, we have a tendency guilty as charged, uh, you know, to fly down to someplace warm, but really here we are. And, uh, we've been out for a while now in the cold and it's actually quite nice, right? So if you're, if you are prepared and you are warm, you will enjoy the outdoors just as much in the cold and maybe even more because there's no bugs.

[00:03:22] Well, we're going to continue along with what we were talking about in the last podcast, which, uh, you know, uh, Kate and I, I want you to listen, uh, watch the last podcast because she talks about the, uh, you know, some of the materials that you need, but she I want to talk about, uh, the one thing that, uh, people always kind of get a little squeamish about is, I don't want to go camping because I don't, there's no bathroom.

[00:03:49] And so, you know, let's, let's talk a little bit about that because, I mean, uh, you know, summertime, I guess I could take my, you know, uh, trowel and dig a slit trench. Sure you can. Winter. So bathrooms. Yeah. Uh, you know, uh, I'll back up a little bit. Um, let's talk about bathrooms with camping in general. Um, so when you go to your local state park, right, and you've set up your camp, you've set up your tent, or even if you're in an rv, what they have there available to you generally are porta-potties, okay.

[00:04:18] Or those. that's at most nation, you know, most state parks. If you've been camping, you've probably seen those Port A Potties. I would say that the issue with those are simply that people do not know how to use them. So, just so, PSA on Port A Potties. They actually have a structural design. So you go into a Port A Potty, you use it, and then a lot of people leave that lid open.

[00:04:41] They think they need to vent that. But that's not how a Port A Potty is designed. You are to close the lid and if you exit the port o potty look up, you'll see that there's a pipe at the top that actually prevents the smell. So a lot of people don't like port a potties, but it's only because we're all using them wrong.

[00:04:56] They do have an actual way and and if they are used properly by your group that smell will dissipate well above your heads and they'll be used as intended. Um, I, however, have no problem just going outside. Okay. Um, that's not an issue. Um, a lot of the places that I go aren't really, um, especially in the wintertime, you're not going to dig a trench.

[00:05:15] All right. Um, it's just not going to happen. Um, as far as hygiene, um, so let's talk about pee. Um, one of the things that happens in winter camping, um, especially for females, I have no idea how it is for men. Um, but as I, uh, squat. to pee. Um, that P being hot for my body freezes instantly, creating shards of P that then can grow in height back up to the level of my bottom.

[00:05:37] Right? So it could be a painful experience if you're like, uh, are you moving around? Yes. You kind of have to shuffle a bit and kind of make it in a line because otherwise you will create a P Stack right back up to your butt. That also works for the other as well. You know, I don't know. I don't know if anyone else uses P Stack.

[00:05:57] I call mine a P Stack. We don't normally talk about it. first time folks. Okay, B stacks. Watch out for the you'll know somebody's be in all seriousness. Okay, It is very hard to keep y it's easy. I mean, you kn tree, find something. But part of it. But the other paper, you know, do you ha do you do? I personally do wet wipes.

[00:06:30] Um, just for m They do freeze. It's not you're gonna want to try wet wipes. Usually I keep I'll keep it in close to it a little warm. Um, you Work out and it winds up freezing and then I have a hunk of solid solid ice to wipe myself. Okay, but Yeah, I'm sorry one of the things as far as you know, if you can keep them and you can't There's not a whole lot of Naked that you're gonna want to be when it's two degrees outside.

[00:07:04] Yes. So, um, especially when you don't have shelter, like I'm standing next to my hammock if I'm changing clothes. Um, as far as like laundering and washing clothes, something that I definitely learned from arctic peoples, the Inuit, you can absolutely wash clothes in snow and freezing and these stains, right?

[00:07:20] So I could right now take this and this is a, I've actually done this, got ketchup on this. And if it were freezing out here, I'm I absolutely could wash it in the snow and freeze it and it would shake off the entire stain would just fall off Back into the snow, you know one thing we didn't talk about in the last podcast But like how many days what is the longest amount of time you've been out?

[00:07:42] A little seven to ten about ten days ten days. Okay, so ten days camping you acclimate at that point You don't even want to leave you don't want to leave. No. Yeah, I don't anyway. Yeah I'm sure it's beautiful because you're you're moving along. You're probably going from one campsite to the other. Yes You And if you're on canoeing portages, portaging, if anybody wants to, well, especially, you know, add it in the comments guys, if you think it's portaging or portaging.

[00:08:06] I would talk about the boundary waters, which, uh, I, I, I'm embarrassed to say I haven't been to, but my, my brother, she, uh, but on my bucket list, but, um, but that, but I know, I understand you go from one campsite to another campsite. Um, And here you have all this stuff, but you're traveling lightly from the last podcast we talked about, you know, as light as possible, which sometimes can still wind up being 60 to 80 pounds, but as light as possible, usually about 30, that's on my back.

[00:08:34] And I might be pulling another 30 or 40. It's, you know, I know a lot of people say, okay, I'm out camping. I don't really care about washing my hair or scrubbing my face. Well, let's say you do. And, uh, And let's get back to the number two situation. Um, how do you drop trowel or whatever in cold weather? Is there, is there any sort of, uh, uh, thing that, uh, the Native Americans or people that have lived out with, how did, how did they deal with that?

[00:09:10] You know, I'm not, I'm not really certain how they, how they did. Um, as far as, you know, being able to kind of. I find the biggest problem with that is, um, just being able to stay warm while it's happening. Because you've now exposed yourself, and there's wind, and it's, I mean, it's very cold. You do freeze quite, you know, and you, um, can get chapped buttocks if you're having, you know, an issue out there.

[00:09:33] Um, the wind coming by and it'll chap ya. Is there anything out on the market? That's gear. Oh, yes. Okay. So let's talk about that because absolutely might be the trade trade off, you know, right? Um, so if I wish to stay warm, um, while peeing, they have made things. Uh, and, uh, at least the one that I own is called a she week.

[00:09:53] Okay. Okay. This is a rubber funnel that I would, and I'll just show you, I can put it right here. And so I would place a rubber funnel, uh, within my pants and catch my urine. And just like as if I had a male appendage. It would go away. It goes away. Okay. It's a funnel like a funnel. Yes, it's a rubber funnel and you pop it along your junk and then it shoots the pee away from your body.

[00:10:16] So you're minimizing exposure just by putting that there. Yes. Okay. And your area. Is there anything anyone who wants to purchase a she we please practice in your home shower. Okay. There is a learning curve. All right, that makes a lot of sense. But once, once you use them really well, yeah, yeah, they're just a little piece of rubber.

[00:10:33] Do they have anything on the market, like, I could imagine, uh, like, uh, almost like a, a, a dress or something that you could put. Around you. They have toilet tents, Marty. They are toilet. Yes. Okay. So are they real tents or are they like what I just described? It's gonna be, um, if you've ever been out to the beach in the summertime and had one of those flip up tents, you know, like a sunshade.

[00:10:54] Yeah. It's very much like a sunshade. Uh, imagine like a, uh, a square, pretty much just enough room for your body. Okay. Um, and then what you do is you go to Home Depot and you buy just a regular bucket. Um, then in the hole in the bucket, you just cut a top, make a top, put kitty litter in it. Okay. Yeah, but that, uh, the only reason why I don't like that is because then I have to haul out that kitty litter.

[00:11:14] Yeah, that's a lot of hauling. But I don't want to haul out that kitty litter. I don't mind hauling in the bathroom. I just don't want to haul out the So let's say you have a toilet tent and, you know, that gives you a little shelter, you know, you're still going to be a little cold, but at least, at least you're protected to some degree.

[00:11:27] Um It's also a privacy consideration. If privacy is your consideration, toilet tents are great. Do you, uh, with, with your, your Poo. Pee is one thing, but like, you know, poo and that sort of thing are Is it okay to cover that, to bury that? It depends on where you are. Um, a lot of places have very, very strict regulations on what you can do with your urine and your fecal matter, and like where things can be kept, uh, how deep you need to dig a trench.

[00:11:55] Um, Everywhere has different rules, so definitely check them out. A lot of the places that I go are just so remote. Right. It's, it's, it's just not a, go find my, to find me for me. Well, what's the commonsensical thing to do? Um, not that, you know, I mean, is it to just like, you know, you do your business, put snow over it, just let nature kind of I mean, I, again, Marty, I believe I'm a North American primate and I have a right Okay.

[00:12:22] Um, but not, not, I mean, not everybody thinks that way. And there is definitely this elation of humans beyond animals. Right, right. And that, you know, we're to leave them separate and this cut off of, oh, you can't go there because birds live there because bears. No, I'm also supposed to live there. So let's just say, you know, uh, I mean, state parks are gonna have facilities.

[00:12:44] But let's go for the real name, right? And, and definitely in your state park, if you are in a state, uh, state park or in a, uh, national park, definitely check their rules and regulations for what to do okay. With their bathroom. I think we, I, I think we've covered enough. I mean, I, uh, I I think if you're going to pull out in, uh, the, the, the boundary waters are somewhere where no human or animal probably will get to it within, you know, a day or so, right?

[00:13:11] You're okay. So, um. That's, that's good to know. But I like that idea of, uh, you know, uh, a little, uh, bathroom tent or, or something like that. Just mainly from the windbreak. Yeah. But, you know, you get a little bit of a wind break from it. Yeah. Today, today, uh, we're, we're filming. And again, it's, it's a lovely day for a constitutional out here.

[00:13:32] So yeah, it, it's 30 degrees outside. Uh, no issues at all. And, uh, and, and we're, no, I mean, so. You, you'll survive. So we're going to take a little break on this. Uh, right now we're talking about winter camping with our expert Kate Vogel. You're on Strung Out. Hello, this is Polly Chase with artwork by Martin McCormick.

[00:13:54] You'll recognize this painting titled Centurions from the newsletter. It is acrylic on canvas and measures 20 by 24. The vibrancy of this piece comes from Marty's use of two complimentary colors, red and green, and a saturated cool blue sky that balances the red or implied heat of the seam. You'll notice that Marty applies his acrylics in a manner that produces a realistic image.

[00:14:27] with a pointillist texture and color play. By placing those complementary colors nearly one on top of the other, he can achieve deep shadow areas with dazzling effect. Using his own photograph as a reference, Marty preserves the open, arid pathways that invite the viewer to venture among the prickly cacti.

[00:14:53] You can take a longer look at this piece and see more of Marty's artwork At Martin mccormack.com

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[00:18:00] Hey, we're back, uh, we're back here and, uh, we're talking about winter camping. And, um, uh, one of the things we talked about in the last podcast, which made a lot of sense is the idea of going, uh, outdoors. out there into the woods with a bunch of friends and or family. I love that family notion. Um, and I take a lot of work on my part to try to get my wife and daughter to do it, but I would love to do it.

[00:18:25] Um, but one thing we, we haven't talked about is, uh, that's kind of serious, especially if you're going to go into like, uh, the boundary waters, um, or, you know, the credit code, like they say, or Yellowstone or something. What, what do you bring in terms of first aid? How do you deal with that possible emergency?

[00:18:48] So I don't mean to be gritty about it, but to be honest, if anything in that first aid kit is going to help you, you're not hurt that bad. And if you are hurt that bad, nothing in that kit is going to help you. Oh, wow. I'm sorry. That's my job. You're anything that you're buying on the market, right? Okay. Um, except for maybe maybe some bleed stop Right.

[00:19:07] I carry bleed stop but outside of that. I mean None of that's I mean if you're going to be injured, it will likely be a much more serious injury Okay, but um as far as bringing things to like bind up broken bones things like that. Yeah, we do that I mean if you fell on the trail and you broke your bone, uh, you could be evacuated There's definitely been medical emergencies out.

[00:19:26] All right Where, um, you know, someone has had a heart heart issues. Um, and it was, you know, an eight mile hike just to get him to where fire services could get it. So we loaded him up on a sled and biked him out of the woods. Okay. So you've had this happen where somebody had emergency services can get them.

[00:19:42] You just try to get them to wherever help can get them. Um, so now is a really good time to talk about how do you call those emergency services, right? It's not so much in this day and age and issue about signal. Okay. But when I'm out there, negative two, I can literally look at my phone and watch the battery go from a hundred to 67 to 26 just sitting in my hand in the cold.

[00:20:01] Okay. So, so completely useless that I have signal if my iPhone battery refuses to be a phone. Yeah. Um, so generally when I'm out there, the only time when I actually have access to using my phone, uh, I will put it in my negative 45 sleeping bag with me, warm it up, and then I will have, you know, the battery usage if I try to.

[00:20:19] You know, negative two, negative three and use my phone, the battery will just continue to drain. It's really difficult to use those kind of things. And that works the same with anything, with your batteries, with your cell. A lot of times we put the batteries inside of coolers with hand warmers. Um, to try to keep them to temperature.

[00:20:37] And when you talk about ham warmers, are these, uh, the electric, uh, like little battery operator or just Yeah, sometimes those, but sometimes even just the regular charcoal packs will work. The problem with the charcoal packs is if it's cold enough, they freeze. Um, number two, they like being next to a body lab being moved around and they have to have some exposure to air.

[00:20:55] So when you're popping 'em in a cooler, that's not a whole lot of exposure to air. So sometimes that doesn't work as well. So I do prefer the battery operated ones, um, that with the little hand warmers and then that kind of, they keep it, they keep themselves warm. Like, you know, the battery warmers keep themselves and my other batteries warm.

[00:21:12] So for you, uh, you're like, uh, my understanding getting this right, like if. keep your, keep your phone warm, keep it close to you. Yeah, keep it close to you. And if you need it for an emergency, definitely keep it close to you. And you've had emergencies. Well, so that's, that's good for us to, to, you know, not be coy about this, but the typical, oh, I just burned my damn hand in the, you know, picking up something from the fire.

[00:21:41] And that might be a serious injury to someone. I'm sorry if I, if I neglect thinking that a burn is a serious injury, but, um, I have a lot of them. I'm a little gritty. So, um, you know, you, you are going to get burned out of there. Let's talk about one of the major burns that have happens out during winter camping.

[00:21:57] So you need to have kind of perpetually boiling water, right? Okay. Yeah. Um, both so that you have something to drink and also so that you can warm your meals. There's a, just so you can wash. I mean, anything that you need. You pretty much have to have a pretty consistent fire and a pretty consistent boiling water.

[00:22:12] So we let it go out kind of at night while we're asleep. First thing we do in the morning, get that fire back up and going. Um, and one of the main injuries burn wise that I've seen, Um, is what happens is you lift that lid off that boiling water. And it is steep, and it is continuously steep, so you cannot see at what level that water is, right?

[00:22:31] It might be near the bottom of the pan, it might be near the top of the pan, and you won't be able to see. So we try to really encourage everybody, don't get in there with a little ladle, or don't try to dip your cup in, or you'll be real sorry. Um, definitely with winter camping and burns, you might be the last to know how injured you are, too.

[00:22:46] I've definitely had like blisters and things that felt like nothing because my hands were cold. But, um, yeah. You know, um, but yeah, you definitely have a long handle ladle just so that you're, you're, you're not running the risk of getting a scalding. Before we take a break, I just want to go ahead and let you know one of the biggest things that took me by surprise as far as the dangers of winter camping was that, so when I come in, And I found a clearing.

[00:23:10] Maybe I've hiked, you know, 10, 12 miles and I'm like, oh, this looks like a perfect place. I find perfect trees for my hammock and I set up and the first thing that I need to do is make a fire. And so I might have a foot or two of snow and the first thing I need to do is dig a hole. And no matter how big around, uh, That I dig that hole.

[00:23:28] Inevitably, once my fire starts and my fire has been going for a day or so, the sides of that hole turn into sheets of ice that are angled towards the fire. Okay. So everybody coming into that fire circle has to be very, very careful or you will literally slide right into a big bonfire. Oh, wow. So that's, you know, uh, another thing that.

[00:23:50] I don't go camping with me. Go camp. I don't know. I never thought about it first until I experienced it and I went, Oh my gosh, this is really, it is a danger. It becomes ice because it heats up and then it starts falling down and then now it's angled towards the fire. So if your footing isn't sure you can wind up in the fire.

[00:24:08] Well, there's so many things, you know, with winter camping that you would just take for granted with summer. Sure. And, but I do, you know, and you keep saying, uh, well, you know, no bugs and everything like that. And, uh, but you have all these other potential dangers, but, uh, you have all these other potential beauties as well.

[00:24:27] I mean, you're not, you're not going to be in, you know, the most beautiful blizzard of your life on a frozen lake in August. That's so true. So we're gonna take a little break right here. And when we come back, we're gonna We're going to talk a little more along, uh, those lines and good stuff, good stuff.

[00:24:43] And, you know, uh, just see what other kind of advice Kate might have to give you. We're with Kate Vogel, uh, outdoors expert here. We're talking winter camping on strong out. Hey, want to show your support of Martin's artist endeavors? Buy me a coffee is an online site that makes supporting Marty easy. In just a few taps, you can make a payment of any amount and no account is needed.

[00:25:09] You can also decide to become an ongoing supporter. Go to martinmccormack. com and click on the words support Martin. Let's help Martin keep it all capital.

[00:25:28] Well, we have. I've been out here shooting podcasts, uh, for a good length of time and it's, it's as nice and sunny as it is, you can hear the wind, uh, going through these trees and you know, I do have to say there's something kind of, uh, Awesome. Yeah. About being out in the wintertime, uh, I think, uh, part of it is that feeling of, um, just being exposed to something that's, uh, a little more, as you say, the North American primate, uh, it's something, uh, that, uh, You feel like you're a little more at risk.

[00:26:06] Is that, is that how you feel about this stuff? Just a little wilder. I mean, you know, I definitely feel like I'm meant to be here. I'm meant to be a part of nature. It can be kind of unsure, especially as we kind of house ourselves up. And you know, go from one building with climate control to another building that's climate controlled.

[00:26:24] You know, it's a very false sense of what is real and what's natural. And I definitely feel like this beauty and this majesty American primate. When I'm alone in my hammock, and you know, there's there's a lake of ice crashing into each other. It makes the most majestic sounds like, you know, a big crashes and pings and, and, you know, creaks and you feel smaller and I feel a bit of comfort actually knowing that the world's much bigger than me.

[00:26:49] Since we're doing this podcast from the Chicago area, give me like three locations that you could do in a day's drive. Or a half a day. Let's just say, uh, that you feel like Uh, the first time camper could just get a great experience out of it. Sure, I think you could. I mean, anywhere up, especially in the, in the wintertime, anywhere, once you get into like central Wisconsin up here, you know, uh, Pearson and Green Bay, any of that, you're going to get the snow.

[00:27:17] You're going to have the woods, you know, once, you know, it's, it's great. Quiet around this time. That's one of the things I like about winter camping. There's not that many people out, but you absolutely, I mean, three or four hours from Chicago, any of those parks up there, anywhere that you can camp up in central Wisconsin, northern Wisconsin, they're all really, really lovely and it'll give you a really nice sense of what it is to be out in the winter time with, you know, having the safety of home.

[00:27:41] Uh, and the biggest thing probably is, is you notice we haven't talked about frostbite because on the last podcast, Kate You know, laid out very clearly that you have to have the right goods. Uh, keep your blood warm. Yeah, keep your blood warm. Uh, what do you recommend? Do R E I. Or what do you say? I, I, I, a very like a cheapskate kind of person.

[00:28:05] So I would definitely recommend gear trade. I would recommend buying other people's used gear. Um, a lot of times people with a significantly more wealthy family. Go out on a one time expedition and then all of their stuff winds up on gear trade from their personal assistant or winds up at Goodwill from their personal assistant.

[00:28:21] Well, we're going to leave it at that. We, uh, want to thank you so much for being out here in the wild with us. You bet. We're going to talk to you guys next week on Strung Out. Thanks, Strung Out fans. Thank you for listening. For more information about this show or a transcript, visit martinmccormack. com.

[00:28:39] While there, sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung

[00:28:49] Out.