Strung Out Episode 237: THE CREATIVE ALCHEMY OF NAOMI ASHLEY AND JON WILLIAMS (part two)

Last week on Strung Out, we had part one of the interview of singer-songwriters Naomi Ashley and Jon Williams.  On this episode, we discuss the process of writing songs, influences and stage crafting needed to have a successful performance.  Plus, we feature three songs, one a cover of another Chicago songwriter, Peter Joly.

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:14:44
Unknown
Welcome to Strung Out, the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist. Your host is the artist, writer and musician Martin Lawrence McCormack. Now here's Marty.

00:00:14:44 - 00:00:28:41
Unknown
Out. And, this is our part two with Naomi, Ashley and John Williams. And we're going to get right into song. So what song to have? This one's called Seeds of doubt. Seeds of doubt.

00:00:28:41 - 00:00:37:30
Unknown
End.

00:00:37:35 - 00:00:46:04
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I used to watch rainbows in the springtime.

00:00:46:09 - 00:00:52:58
Unknown
But when the first black smoke.

00:00:53:02 - 00:01:01:30
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Til I fell into your winter fountain I tell you.

00:01:01:35 - 00:01:17:45
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10 to 10%. Keep changing lives. When? You. I can't get my brain to hush the cherry.

00:01:17:50 - 00:01:25:39
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When you're cold and greet me like a stone.

00:01:25:44 - 00:01:33:23
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It's no longer love. No man.

00:01:33:28 - 00:02:04:39
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Once the seeds of doubt have been so. Like a fire. Match around my heart. And with no time. So when someone. Back in the sure loved me. True love.

00:02:04:44 - 00:02:12:28
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I know that it might look like I will go.

00:02:12:33 - 00:02:20:00
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But I have this tiger by the tail.

00:02:20:04 - 00:02:27:58
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Who if I let go, I'll surely be devoured.

00:02:28:03 - 00:02:34:43
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If I hold on, I'll start to know.

00:02:34:47 - 00:02:42:48
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Oh, I wonder if the angels will receive.

00:02:42:53 - 00:02:59:19
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You standing in the dark hole in your phone. It used to be so easy to you to save me.

00:02:59:24 - 00:03:35:35
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And now the seeds to doubt have been so. I believe, you the rapture of my heart. And you tell me so. Heart. The better nature to love me to life. You.

00:03:35:39 - 00:03:47:38
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Know.

00:03:47:42 - 00:03:54:04
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You.

00:03:54:09 - 00:04:08:22
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Work it out so nothing can surprise me. You. I train it down to not be made.

00:04:08:27 - 00:04:16:47
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If you saw me now, you would not recognize me.

00:04:16:52 - 00:04:24:49
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And I'm dusty rock made from.

00:04:24:54 - 00:04:32:28
Unknown
Getting through the day so weak. See how.

00:04:32:32 - 00:04:40:00
Unknown
Wants a garden better I'm a grown.

00:04:40:04 - 00:04:48:05
Unknown
You tend to. You know it's like that. You flowers.

00:04:48:09 - 00:04:55:59
Unknown
When the seeds of doubt happen. So.

00:04:56:04 - 00:05:05:09
Unknown
When the seeds of doubt happen. Song.

00:05:05:14 - 00:05:11:15
Unknown
Are.

00:05:11:19 - 00:05:13:57
Unknown
You.

00:05:14:02 - 00:05:41:52
Unknown
What a great song. Boy. I mean, that's one. Who did you have to drink a whiskey to? Because it's a real heart heartbreaker. Well, let's talk about this song because, your song crafting is is really nice. The one, one thing I like is here, you're flipping things on top of themselves. So, you know, the jewel is the the dirty rock or whatever.

00:05:41:56 - 00:06:06:42
Unknown
Yeah. And, you know, how how do you get inspiration for writing the song, like Seeds of Doubt? So. So, I had a lot of despite the fact of being, like, sad like the, the, the core of it was from a sad point of life that happened a long time ago. Sure. That hadn't written about. No, no, not him, not the first guy to get that story now.

00:06:06:43 - 00:06:36:57
Unknown
Okay, but but, so that I hadn't really written about that aspect of it before, but it's been many, many years and that and then also, I loved writing the song and I, I don't have those, like, raw emotions anymore, but I really loved, leaning in. So country music's a lot of stuff I like about old country music is they take a metaphor and they see it through the entire thing, and it can me.

00:06:37:08 - 00:07:01:32
Unknown
I was like, is this too much? Is it a little cheesy? But, but being able to kind of bring back those kind of the natural world kind of a metaphor is divine, you know, looking for primroses in the springtime and, you know, the weeds in the garden. Like it was a really fun, assignment I gave myself to just, like, pick a metaphor and see it through.

00:07:01:37 - 00:07:24:35
Unknown
So it was it was really fun to in the write that that those turns of phrase is to, when that kind of this was a song I usually labor over songs a long time and this one was one of those that that kind of just came. Came? Yeah. Did it come fast? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I, you know, I, I liked the, the fact you gave yourself an assignment.

00:07:24:42 - 00:07:56:46
Unknown
Yeah. Is that something that you think a lot of, songwriters kind of don't do? Well, I guess it just depends on how people are inspired. I, I'm not a super prolific songwriter any more where, you've made or to happy and not happy. Someone. There's a song and you have to have it to write songs. I, I think it was also I, I don't know, you just, I come forward with my.

00:07:56:51 - 00:08:19:32
Unknown
It's so easy like, I and you know, we were talking before about the, the internet and the phones, your face that kind of drained away some of my get up and go about, like, writing. So a lot of times I'll have to just, like, trick myself into writing a song. Sure. That one was written for actually one of Jenny Benjamin's haiku shows.

00:08:19:43 - 00:08:40:06
Unknown
Sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I haven't done one, but I interviewed Jenny about it. Oh, know. And I talked to a couple guys that were scared to death, you know, being given the the assignment and to craft the song. So she's really into something a good idea for creativity. Yeah. So it gives me a little seed to start. Right.

00:08:40:08 - 00:09:00:04
Unknown
And so, so it's like you don't it's there you go. See. So so that is a good reason. And then I have a deadline. So that's really important for me. So the deadline a self-imposed deadline like like I have to have this for my show for Jenny after Jenny Show or. Yeah, I want to finish something for my next show.

00:09:00:15 - 00:09:26:55
Unknown
Some post deadlines for me. I can not do this. So to have an outside deadline, it's really important. John, now that you, been working with Naomi, for a bit now, has this gotten you going as far as thinking, you know, I've got lyrics for, you know, where where where do things sit with you? From the creative side.

00:09:26:55 - 00:09:45:42
Unknown
I mean, you know, songwriting. And I have just a love of songwriting, you know, you know, Naomi and Peter and Jenny and so many great songwriters. It's never really been my ambition to be a songwriter. I grew up, I went out every once in a while. Or if she's working on a song, I might add a little tweak here and there.

00:09:45:42 - 00:10:11:56
Unknown
But, my ambition is always been to be a good instrumentalist, to be a good player, and that's that. And just the interaction of musicians in the moment is my favorite thing. Have you found that though changing maybe a little bit as you guys work together. I mean you know as a, as a partnership, as a duo over time it seems like, you know, we, we, you know the, the old thing about couples, they start resembling each other.

00:10:12:01 - 00:10:34:45
Unknown
So I mean, same thing probably with the creative process, you know, you kind of start diving into things. Are you finding yourself, like, saying, you know, thinking yourself. Well, I can hear this riff here and, you know, that sort of thing. So we both definitely have our own separate strengths. And I like lyrically, I've always been like a good player, writer and melody.

00:10:34:50 - 00:11:05:47
Unknown
But I'm not I'm not necessarily, proficient enough to like, kind of think about music and like, oh, you know what? If we have a descending X, Y, or Z there, it's it's pretty basic. And when the strength that John brings to it is his full like musical knowledge and history. So like the, love bug that we played on the other podcast, the first song, I just kind of was have playing the same two songs over and over thinking, well, what new chords?

00:11:06:02 - 00:11:27:58
Unknown
Two chords up. Yeah. And he'd minor and bass. Yeah. That was, I was just, you know, over and over. And then he brought in the D major, D major, which is nice because it kicks it open into something, you know, it makes and it, and it made it just, more evocative. And so that's, that was my one little contribution to that song.

00:11:27:58 - 00:11:53:55
Unknown
And I gather 50, 50 someone else to do like Nashville rolls. But, you know, that's, Yeah, Nashville rules. You know, that's the I think that makes a lot of sense. You know, we we talk about partnerships, duos, and, it's so, I mean, look at Lennon-McCartney as the probably the biggest example of, like, two people that had to kind of make a hand, not even a handshake agreement.

00:11:53:55 - 00:12:18:30
Unknown
They kind of fell apart on it. But, you know, if this thing is going to progress, we have to kind of surrender our ego on one part of it, right? I mean, it has to be 5050 somehow. Yeah. Right. You know, in order to happen and I will I will jump back to that. But something you said about, country music, taking the metaphor and carrying it all the way through.

00:12:18:35 - 00:12:43:50
Unknown
You also are in a pretenders band, right? And you talk about, somebody that started out as a journalist, a writer. Christy Hind. And, what is it about her songs that you find, does she do that or what's your writing style, writing? Gosh, I don't know. It's very poetic. It can get really dark.

00:12:43:55 - 00:13:12:52
Unknown
And then and then really like loving. It's it's not as so straightforward but whatever the feeling is with the song. Gets through. Right. And it can rock. It can just rock. Rock, rock. And I do not know how to say, but she can take a song that's, you know, about the birth of her daughter and have the space imagery and like, it's so beautifully written if you've got, read it on the page.

00:13:13:02 - 00:13:35:50
Unknown
Okay. Kid. Oh, kid, show me, show me. Oh, yeah. That's. And great. Yeah. I mean, just fantastic. So. And then it rocks like, I. There's just no other way of saying it. And if you just read the lyrics on the page, you're like, this is just beautiful poetry. I don't know how she does it. People ask me, has she influenced my writing?

00:13:35:54 - 00:13:58:00
Unknown
I don't think so, because I just it's a different compartment. Maybe everything's getting through. Maybe in a way. But I don't know how. She's kind of a singular songwriter thing. And and unusual songwriters in a lot of ways, I think. Yeah, I think you've read about poetry, but then also kind of, kind of the journalist comes through like Ohio.

00:13:58:09 - 00:14:19:04
Unknown
Oh, yeah. You know, that's for me. I mean, you know, you could you can look at that and you could probably turn that into a neat little, you know, editorial about the farms of Ohio and that, you know, everything being turned into shopping malls. Yeah. A real Midwestern problem that's hasn't gone away. But, get the next song ready.

00:14:19:09 - 00:14:46:56
Unknown
The one thing that's interesting with the pretenders is the you say they're able to racket up, they're very simple, though, in their band set, aren't they? I mean, the way the orchestration, the arrangements themselves lend a certain punch, to everything that they do. I mean, I think, like Chain Gang and production wise, they generally don't go too far beyond rock and roll band writers, bass and drums.

00:14:46:56 - 00:15:18:15
Unknown
And that's. There's nothing there, right? Yeah. I mean, could you ever hear do you ever think Chrissie Haim could ever write, like in the country style? She, she kind of has a country song. But I okay. She, I think she can and and, it'll it'll be, it'll be her version and, of that, I don't know, but she's still rocking this record and she's kind of that, like, late 70s London punk rock and roll.

00:15:18:16 - 00:15:45:08
Unknown
So, that's that's really kind of her base. And then she goes out from there, you know. Right. Right. Yeah. Well, you know, just if you if you have to follow somebody and you know, show their works, that's not a bad person to do. Yeah, right. I mean, you know, so, but you are, both great, songwriters and crafters in your own right.

00:15:45:08 - 00:15:51:35
Unknown
So give our audience another taste of, Naomi's other band.

00:16:03:57 - 00:16:15:30
Unknown
You.

00:16:15:35 - 00:16:53:13
Unknown
Oh. That's me. Never ask me back to me. I'm about to make the same mistake you say you, Mr.. I'm about to make up about me. I'm about to make up. About to make the same mistake. The same mistake. You, my princess. No no no no, my body is. Yes yes yes yes. The heart says I'm the one.

00:16:53:26 - 00:17:14:14
Unknown
Go to. Show. I love 49. I'm about to take. I'm about to come busting of, staying in the same room. The same wrong.

00:17:14:19 - 00:18:04:57
Unknown
I'm about to lift up a thousand. And I'm about to lift up. About to lift the single. The say below. My body. This is no, no no no. Oh, heart says why not? Let's try. My princess. Gee, I don't know. Why? Lady life. But in my home.

00:18:05:02 - 00:18:13:54
Unknown
You.

00:18:13:59 - 00:18:55:12
Unknown
Come back together. The guys in front of us. Give up my back to my way. Too much away. And I'm there to get them. But then I'm about to give up. I'm back in front of my whole life and take my heart. Since we've been here before. My princess, I know, girl, I know. My party. This is. Let's close the door.

00:18:55:17 - 00:19:30:22
Unknown
We'll be just fine right here. My God, let me go! Let me. God, let me go! Let me! The same mistake. The same mistake. That we have to make. I don't have to make. I have to make the same mistake. The same mistake. I don't have to make the same mistake.

00:19:30:26 - 00:19:38:35
Unknown
You don't have to make the same mistake.

00:19:38:35 - 00:20:16:01
Unknown
Hello subscribers, and welcome to Inside Views of Mardi Fine Art, where people are talking about their collected works by artist Martin Al McCormick. Like this planar watercolor titled River Bower, Donegal, Ireland, recently purchased by Cindy Roby. Her trip to Ireland was such a gift. Even more so is the forever reminder of the trip we had to. Marty's painting was a Bower Donegal.

00:20:16:06 - 00:20:44:35
Unknown
It is a beautiful rendition of a path we actually had the pleasure of walking. Marty masterfully captured the light through the trees, the gentle breeze and the brilliance of the soft colored leaves. It truly embodies the peace and tranquility of Ireland. We all remember it always, along with the friendships made and the memories that this unforgettable painting inspires.

00:20:44:40 - 00:21:02:33
Unknown
Thank you for supporting Marty Fine Art, Cindy. Additional originals and prints and merchandise of all of Marty's art can be purchased at Martin mccormick.com.

00:21:02:33 - 00:21:19:52
Unknown
And we're back. Same mistake. Is that the name of that? That song we just listened to? I had a lot of questions going on, so I'm going to fire em out as quick as I can. Okay, John. Are you a natural at Harmony?

00:21:19:57 - 00:21:37:53
Unknown
You know, I can hear my voice has a limited range, so if I can get in the range, I can hear the hear the notes pretty well. So how does that how does that look to you? Or do you just hear it? I mean, how do you interpret harmony? Such a hard thing for some mysterious thing like, hey, you know, when I teach music and I try to think of how to teach harmony.

00:21:37:58 - 00:22:00:15
Unknown
I don't really know how to do it, you know, because I know, you know, if there's a I don't I don't understand it, I hear it. It's almost entirely by a, I don't know the theory. Yeah. It's, I tried to tell my daughter like it's a thing of, like, the Blue Angels. Yeah. And so, you know, you have the one jet that's, you know, that's always kind of keeping that, you know, their third, but but still you have to have the ear for it.

00:22:00:23 - 00:22:25:11
Unknown
Yeah. One of the things I'm really enjoying about the both of you guys is that, the, the the timber of your voices lends so well together, you know, it's just a very soothing sound, and. But, you know, I don't hear any, I mean, you're spot on with your your, your heart. Yeah. You know, which which is, so important.

00:22:25:11 - 00:22:54:05
Unknown
I think, obviously when you're playing live, you know, though, I do like my occasional Mexican band where the lead singer is just a little bit off key. And so I think that makes it even more interesting. But, but when you guys are, setting up a song like that, sing the song, what goes into it? No, no, no, I'm not going to talk about the song writing, but I'm going to talk about the rehearsal or the pulling together of these elements.

00:22:54:07 - 00:23:12:48
Unknown
I know you've been at it for a while. Let's set it up for a novice, somebody that's just coming into this and saying, I want to be like those guys. Yeah. And she had this one done before. Just before we started dating. And that melody that, that I know that and I heard that, and I immediately wanted to go right along with that wise.

00:23:12:49 - 00:23:40:20
Unknown
It just came with me. And then even like, the guitar part is kind of like it's just kind of mirroring, right? That little melody and yeah, that, that kind of struck me right away when I heard her do this. Yeah. Yeah. And, and when we recorded it so we recorded it with elect I played electric. So there's definitely a different kind of like drive and strum and less.

00:23:40:25 - 00:24:08:02
Unknown
Less is more. I can almost hear like a Rosie Flores or like a Linda Ronstadt. Like a little Spanish guitar. That would be fun. Because there is that, you know, it has a dance to it. When you guys make decisions like that, is it trial and error, or is it like, do guys, like, say, okay, you know, we got a show Tuesday.

00:24:08:06 - 00:24:32:43
Unknown
Yeah. Here's this song that, you know, how do you guys do it? I we kind of have a knack for it. We have similar tastes and what we think sounds good production wise. When it's good together, we almost always. Okay. We have the same we like kind of the same tunes. We have the same sounds. Yeah. And it's just the tools that we have in our toolbox, the musicians that we pull, you know, in and the instruments that we play and you know.

00:24:32:48 - 00:24:52:18
Unknown
Do you ever run a song out that's not finished? I yeah. The time when she's singing lyrics that are not going to survive to the end or I love it, but sometimes there's one, song that I just, I get to be. I get real perfectionist, especially about lyrics. And I was like, I don't know the right thing for here.

00:24:52:21 - 00:25:11:38
Unknown
So we played the song a lot for me, just like that one section, and I was just like, home. Like, I just say nothing for a long time and nobody noticed. Why? Why is that important? To do it in front of an audience rather than doing it in your living room? For me, I just kind of need that extra bit.

00:25:11:39 - 00:25:32:06
Unknown
Sometimes you play in front of an audience, you have a it's not pressure, but it's, being in the moment instead of in your head. And I think things get worked out that way. A lot of times you try to sit with it and trying to like, figure out, how's this arrangement going to go? We usually find the arrangements.

00:25:32:10 - 00:25:55:55
Unknown
In the band, there's there's a few, like, decisions we make and. And we played on there and everybody, you know good with good musicians and they find what's going to work. Well for the song. Yeah. So walk me through like a rehearsal of Naomi's other band. Yeah. Are you guys like. It sounds to me like you guys might be even finishing each other's sentences when it comes to directions, then.

00:25:56:00 - 00:26:20:19
Unknown
Are you guys bringing then a piece that, you've written out the lyrics, you formed things down to some degree. I mean, this stuff like, you know, getting lyrics under your belt doesn't necessarily require the other, you know, do you want them. You write, you know, there's something a little territorial about somebody saying, well Naomi, you know, why don't you use this.

00:26:20:20 - 00:26:38:01
Unknown
You know. Yeah. But so rarely happens with a musician, you know, like she'll send us a demo of the song we get together playing and almost always is like, oh, yeah, that that's great. Because, you know, the guys that we've played with now, right? Are the people that we like the way they play, you know. And it's it's so it is, it's really any like, oh I want to do it this way now.

00:26:38:01 - 00:27:04:04
Unknown
I want to do it that way. Almost never really therapy once in a while, like oh, let's, let's figure out an intro for this song. Right. Or maybe. So there's a little bit of that, but a lot of times little details. Yeah. How do you start, how you end, you know, with how you know. So those kind of make, make the arranged, you know, what kind of trips are there that, somebody that wants to get out and perform live.

00:27:04:06 - 00:27:33:10
Unknown
It's so such a different thing. Yeah. You know, even from, like, you know, playing, you know, for a couple people. But what are some of the trips, musically speaking, you know, with, your instruments, that sort of thing that you can divulge? Do you have anything? I mean, to me, I like to think of live. I need to be not just be able to play it like I need to be 50% better than I, you know, to go on the stage because it's just a little harder when you get you can't stop, you can't.

00:27:33:24 - 00:27:48:31
Unknown
You can't slow down. You gotta keep going. So I gotta before I take anything on stage, it's going to be totally in my back pocket and, you know, and, you know, being able to play with the metronome, that's another good trick, you know, if you can. Because you got to keep going with the metronome going. You can't stop, you can't slow down.

00:27:48:36 - 00:28:20:11
Unknown
It's a little tricks like that. You gotta you got to be, you got to have it. Almost twice as good as you need people, you know, on stage. That's my thing. Yeah. And I also think, as a live, live performance for me, just to always remind yourself, like, I'm. I'm here right now, as opposed to, like, wanting some sort of feedback from the audience or, you know, so I, I find myself like, if I find myself drifting off, have you ever been on stage?

00:28:20:11 - 00:28:39:09
Unknown
And you're like, I don't know if this is because I've been daydreaming. Like, if you've been driving for, like that. Yeah. That's true. And then I just kind of remind myself and sometimes mistakes help you bring and bring you back into that moment. So just don't be afraid of the mistakes. And and also just kind of remind yourself like, oh, I'm here.

00:28:39:09 - 00:29:03:49
Unknown
So in this moment I don't want anything. And then that helps me listen to the other musicians. Like listening to the other musicians is important. Do you feel do you feel a good audience is an audience that appreciates, a mistake every so often? Yeah. You're right. Yeah. When I, when I, when they know. You know, because any musicians had this experience where you play a show and you're like, that was that was bad.

00:29:03:49 - 00:29:19:15
Unknown
And you walk off the stage and the first thing somebody says to you is, that was the best thing I've ever had a completely different experience than you had. So, okay, it's kind of interesting to keep your mouth shut and say, I'm sure. And, and I think, like you said, like a mistake or a good train wreck. It's like you're in a live music show.

00:29:19:15 - 00:29:50:49
Unknown
So there's there's an element of like, as long as if it's too polished, sometimes it's not. It's like exciting, right? I remember seeing this one act that, I won't name names, but it was the same patter. Yeah, every damn time. And it was just, you know, I thank God for somebody returning, to this thing. It's it's going to it's not going to translate well into an experience because, you know, you're creating an experience.

00:29:50:51 - 00:30:20:14
Unknown
Yeah. Which which can never be duplicated again. I like what you guys are saying about the audience and especially about the audience themselves. Having a transcendent experience that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, think of your next song. And while I ask you this, musicians, the performers at a disadvantage, aren't they? In the sense of getting the full experience of a live show?

00:30:20:18 - 00:30:38:35
Unknown
The to me, the this the music sounds best, like on the stage amongst the musician. Yeah. I love being out in front, you know, hearing it comes to the P.A., but hearing what the bass players doing and reacting in real time and, you know, and the harmonies are, are meshing or not if you can't hear. Well, that's my favorite way to listen.

00:30:38:35 - 00:31:01:00
Unknown
You love it. Okay. Listen to music is on stage with the other musicians. And what about you, Neil? Well, yeah, I agree. I really love being on stage with the musicians, especially, new because of their band. Right now, everybody's really listening to each other a lot, so songs will just take little departures, you know? Not wild, but but, everybody's kind of reacting into the moment through what's happening.

00:31:01:00 - 00:31:25:40
Unknown
So somebody plays something a little harder. Everybody's kind of reacting to that. Or if I sing something in a certain way that gets reacted to so that's that's really exciting. So the I think another hint is like, get the sound on stage as good as possible. That's great. Great advice. Yeah. Because then you can have those moments when are you having trouble hearing or you can only hear yourself, but it's not as fun.

00:31:25:51 - 00:31:58:59
Unknown
No. And it may sound great out front, but yeah, it's you know, what the audience gets is never what's up. Yeah. Organically alive on stage. Right? Yeah. And like you saying it could be a wonderful experience or it could be a nightmare depending on how much on nights. Oh yeah. Oh my goodness. You know the, the, the, communication is maybe an open band members because there's always, you know, that one guy that's like going on that everybody can hear anymore all the time.

00:31:59:03 - 00:32:18:13
Unknown
And then you're like, oh no, no, no. It's, you know, slowly building out stage. But, these are little tricks of the trade with, Naomi Ashley and John Williams. And we're going to enjoy another one of their songs, and then we're going to wrap up this podcast, and it's really about the stagecraft and songcraft of these two individuals.

00:32:18:18 - 00:32:36:55
Unknown
What do you got? So we're going to do actually a cover of our friend Peter Jolly, who's John plays in his band, his beloved, he's a songwriter songwriter. He's very well respected in our community. And this is just one of my favorite songs. So we do it in our set. What's it called? It's called till They Go.

00:32:37:00 - 00:32:38:22
Unknown
Till they go.

00:32:38:22 - 00:33:21:02
Unknown
To you can go right? You can go wrong. You get to go to sleep. You can go. Sure. You can go long. You can haul off. Said one day. But we there ever you are going. There is one thing you should know. You never know how awful things can go till they go. So grab you baby.

00:33:21:07 - 00:34:12:56
Unknown
Grab your money, grab your car keys, grab. We feed your hunger. Feed your heart. Hey, eat your happiness when you need. And keep on driving. Keep on going. Keep on knowing what you know. She will never know how long, how things can go on home. Till they go. Oh yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

00:34:13:01 - 00:34:58:17
Unknown
Search the cameras up inside. You see the diamonds of your. You're supposed to keep on searching till they find me. I love your family. Love you baby. Love your country, love you. Come love your brother, love you. Demons. They will show you who you are and take your chances. Take your sweet time. Take your punches and then take back.

00:34:58:22 - 00:35:48:01
Unknown
It's in the scheme of this great production. You're just to play every year anyhow and keep on driving. You keep on going, keep on going. But you know you never know how often things can go till they go. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. You here yeah yeah yeah yeah. Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

00:35:48:01 - 00:36:17:11
Unknown
Hello, this is Polly Chase. Presenting artwork by Martin McCormick. This painting, titled dude, features a mountain range that holds a special place in Marty's heart. On the canvas, which measures 20 by 24. We see the Tetons rising in the hazy distance of a view from an abandoned dude ranch just outside Jackson Hole, Wyoming, near Marty's parent's old place.

00:36:17:16 - 00:36:56:25
Unknown
The cool blues and violets of the background complement the buttery yellow foreground. These colors pass the viewer's attention back and forth along the horizontal plane, while the decaying model T sinks into that scrubby landscape, from which the majestic peaks punch upward along the vertical plane. It's a quiet yet very moving scene, both artistically and emotionally. It pulls the imagination into a human story waiting to be told, one witnessed by rock that is millions of years old.

00:36:56:29 - 00:37:07:05
Unknown
To explore this painting and more of Marty's artwork. Go to Martin mccormick.com.

00:37:07:05 - 00:37:24:21
Unknown
We have been on a great little musical journey with you. You two. And I just want to ask you just to wrap things up, some quick questions. When you write lyrics, do you write them on a pad of paper?

00:37:24:21 - 00:37:58:15
Unknown
Do you write them on your phone, or do you do a combination thereof of two pad of paper? And then when I get something a little more solid, I'll, I'll put it in a word document. Okay. Artificial intelligence, should we use it to write lyrics? For me, I don't want to give that, I'm afraid. I know, like, if I'm writing a work related letter or something professional, I've used ChatGPT and it's addictive, and I don't, I don't ever.

00:37:58:15 - 00:38:20:06
Unknown
I think it probably can be used as a useful tool, but I'm not ready for it yet. Okay. I don't think we have a choice. It's Kevin. Whether we wanted to write this as soon as the technology is there and somebody is going too easy. Yeah it is. Do you think it's going to replace the musician? Well, I think I assume it's it's it's better than it was.

00:38:20:09 - 00:38:38:27
Unknown
You know, it's getting better. But there's still something pretty difficult eventually. And who knows what a hundred years is going to be. Yeah. It's going to be I think I've made music with a, collaborator. And she lives in Washington, DC, and she's very good at the synth and she's a producer and can get really realistic drum sounds and stuff.

00:38:38:31 - 00:39:04:36
Unknown
And for us as a duo, doing that is good. But I never want to not have live musicians in my, my own personal like projects because it's, there's something magical that happens with humans that computers just can't do. Yeah, you can't fake love can. Yeah. Make a little mistake. Yeah. Yeah. That tried to have, like, a hologram of Tupac Shakur or something, like.

00:39:04:40 - 00:39:25:33
Unknown
Yeah. Jan, everyday playing the guitar, you know, I practice every day, but lately it's been the piano I don't want. I haven't how many, how many? Hours. I keep track last year. I keep track of on that chalkboard back there. Okay. The hash marks for an hour, and I. It was almost an hour a day for the last few years.

00:39:25:33 - 00:39:46:39
Unknown
Now. It was like your first instrument tour. Yeah, when I was, you know, like a lot of kids, I took piano lessons starting around age seven. Do you feel. Do you feel pianos, the gateway instrument for being a good musician? It is kind of the baseline. Like every every musician should play a little piano. There is something about see it in front of you and how the chords are constructed.

00:39:46:44 - 00:40:06:39
Unknown
Get the guitar is kind of an on bird because you can get higher notes by going up the fretboard. You can get all higher notes by going across the strings. So it's kind of three dimensional that way, where the piano is just laid out in front of you, you know, and you can do this stuff with your left hand and melody with the right hand, and that's hard to do on the guitar.

00:40:06:43 - 00:40:22:33
Unknown
I probably spend more and more time on the guitar in general, so it's always going to be feel the most natural to me. But I love the piano. I'm kind of obsessed with it right now, so I'm kind of working, working towards being out of play. Solo piano gigs since are you going to, incorporate it into Naomi's other band or.

00:40:22:35 - 00:40:42:22
Unknown
We do, we are. Okay, there's certainly it's all over the love by record. There's got to be keyboards on every so almost every song, just about every song. And, we it's we don't we don't do it too much live just because of the gear aspect of bringing, bringing the worlds around. I love to bring the Wurlitzer up, but, it's a little too much gear wise.

00:40:42:27 - 00:41:15:42
Unknown
Oh, yeah. What's the biggest advantage you guys see is working as a duo with a live band? With a band. But as a duo, you know, more money. More money. And two, what we're doing is instead of our. Sorry guys. Yeah, yeah, I think I think we just have a very complementary, strengths. And I know as a songwriter, the way he plays it really like lifts up the songs in a way that I and communicates them better than I could just communicate them on my own.

00:41:15:46 - 00:41:37:32
Unknown
So that's what I would say. Okay, where is the public going to see you in the next three months? Okay. So I February of this year brought it down February 27th. Now I was going to be at Friendly Town. Okay. And that's also John's birthday. So there really is the name of his mother's birthday as well.

00:41:37:34 - 00:42:01:25
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. Judy, if you're out there, I am playing a rare solo gig at the Maple Street concert. And that's on March 22nd and of course, Real Pretenders is every third Wednesday at signings. And now John has, every third Saturday is at Robert's with the mountaineers. And that's an excellent band. Except this month I'm going to be out of town.

00:42:01:25 - 00:42:20:50
Unknown
Yeah. Okay. We're going on a little national park trip this month, but will be back there on March, whatever the third Saturday of March is. And I also play Second Fridays with the Little String Band and play fiddle with the Rick Sherry and Kip Rainey and a little head of old 20th string band music. And we do second Fridays also.

00:42:20:50 - 00:42:43:43
Unknown
Again, not this month because we're in town, so we'll be back. I'll be back in those two of plays. A when I come back to interview you guys in a year or two is just going to be like the power duo of Chicago. I. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We did give ourselves the celebrity couple name, which is an AJ yay!

00:42:43:48 - 00:43:12:05
Unknown
We're a pretty I like that I think, you know, there's something to be said about that. I think you have to have humor about all this, company in 2018. Right. Well, I want to thank you for inviting me into your space here and, for giving such great advice and such beautiful music. You guys, even if you're not in Chicago, you can find these guys on Spotify, correct?

00:43:12:05 - 00:43:37:03
Unknown
Yep. Spotify. My website, Naomi ashley.com has all the music. My music and all the shows. And check out Berwyn, famous for all the local regional music that we love, including hers. And, and all that stuff. I love that Merlin Famous on Spotify. They're curating this list. Definitely worth listening to. Because there's there's a plethora of talent.

00:43:37:03 - 00:43:46:22
Unknown
It's just coming out of the woodwork. And then there's this neck of the woods. So play us out, guys. Give us one. This one's here called Here's to Us.

00:43:46:22 - 00:43:54:33
Unknown
Let's say, like kidney stones.

00:43:54:38 - 00:44:02:27
Unknown
Send them to,

00:44:02:32 - 00:44:10:06
Unknown
The is like, for some.

00:44:10:11 - 00:44:18:12
Unknown
It can't be lost. One.

00:44:18:16 - 00:44:26:08
Unknown
Disappointed ones.

00:44:26:13 - 00:44:41:41
Unknown
Yeah. Limitless stuff. Right. Send us.

00:44:41:46 - 00:44:59:58
Unknown
Get back on the horse and try these two. Oh.

00:45:00:02 - 00:45:13:18
Unknown
Oh.

00:45:13:23 - 00:45:21:17
Unknown
Bucks. Unfailingly.

00:45:21:22 - 00:45:28:55
Unknown
You love. If you.

00:45:29:00 - 00:45:36:59
Unknown
Leave them behind our door.

00:45:37:04 - 00:46:25:00
Unknown
To the moon. Oh, God. Here's to us. You. Used to, Oh, you do?

00:46:25:04 - 00:46:40:44
Unknown
You.

00:46:40:49 - 00:46:40:57
Unknown
All

00:46:40:57 - 00:46:53:35
Unknown
right. Thank you so much, you guys. Thank you. AJ, I bet it's kind of growing out of you. Hey, everybody. We'll see you again next week. Strung out.

00:46:55:25 - 00:47:13:08
Unknown
Thank you for listening. For more information about this show or a transcript, visit Martin mccormack.com while there. Sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung Out.

00:47:13:13 - 00:47:26:00
Unknown
It's so strong. Spain, we feel, makes no sense at all. The swan song wasn't part of the deal, was no good. All giving no choice. Giving us a.