Strung Out Episode 241: THE SONGWRITING CRAFT OF ERNIE HENDRICKSON

Ernie Hendrickson is a true hard worker, plying his craft with great intensity and attention to detail in both lyrics and guitar playing.  The results are spectacular songs that relate to people on a hopeful, positive level without any indication of insincerity.  Living in the Chicago area, this Rockford native represents some of the amazing songwriting wealth that abounds in the Windy City.  Ernie explains how he writes and what he likes to write about.  It's a master class in singer-songwriting from a true troubadour.

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:14:44
Unknown
Welcome to Strung Out, the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist. Your host is the artist, writer and musician Martin Lawrence McCormack. Now here's Marty.

00:00:14:44 - 00:00:38:55
Unknown
Hey, welcome back to Strung Out. This is our second part. With the interview with Ernie Hendrickson. And, if you didn't get to the first part, you should really check it out. Some beautiful songs and what we always like to do on this. Let's get into the nitty gritty of songwriting. What gets us go on with it and, play us in.

00:00:38:55 - 00:00:48:47
Unknown
Ernie. What's this tune called? I'll do one called A Joyful Sound. This is the lead off track to my newest album. And what's that album called? Live at Cafe Kart?

00:00:57:43 - 00:01:03:06
Unknown
Well, all I really want to do.

00:01:03:10 - 00:01:08:38
Unknown
Is close my eyes and play for you.

00:01:08:43 - 00:01:14:22
Unknown
String some words together to.

00:01:14:27 - 00:01:19:49
Unknown
Melt my mind away in a tin.

00:01:19:54 - 00:01:25:36
Unknown
Ceiling. Oh, no D.

00:01:25:41 - 00:01:36:31
Unknown
Where no earthly care can get to me. And if it makes it through you.

00:01:36:35 - 00:01:47:41
Unknown
You can close your eyes and be there to hold. This all world just makes you can.

00:01:47:46 - 00:01:53:30
Unknown
Never thought that just makes it worse.

00:01:53:35 - 00:01:59:12
Unknown
Drop that needle down and groove.

00:01:59:17 - 00:02:21:33
Unknown
Beat the Beatles in your living room. You singing about all you need is in two and three. On harmony salon. Soul melody.

00:02:21:37 - 00:02:27:11
Unknown
Come in through your wrecking machine.

00:02:27:16 - 00:02:53:48
Unknown
Whatever makes you think. Whatever gets you down. The then son you need is love. And it's all around you. Turn it on and turn it up. Hear the joy sound just cheerful for to let and go down.

00:02:53:53 - 00:03:00:06
Unknown
Is no natural remedy.

00:03:00:11 - 00:03:10:55
Unknown
When you sing it in harmony. You can spend your days just tagging along.

00:03:11:00 - 00:03:16:35
Unknown
The side. No John Prine song.

00:03:16:40 - 00:03:22:34
Unknown
And it's fast acting and is free.

00:03:22:39 - 00:03:39:03
Unknown
And this satisfaction guarantee of all the pills that you can. You. Never found one better than sang in the blue.

00:03:39:08 - 00:04:06:09
Unknown
Whatever makes my whatever gets to that. The medicine you need is love. And it's all around you. Turn it on in, turn it up and hear the joyful say I'm just in it. For makes the medicine go down.

00:04:06:14 - 00:04:11:33
Unknown
All I really mean say.

00:04:11:37 - 00:04:17:18
Unknown
Is in this adult world today.

00:04:17:23 - 00:04:22:38
Unknown
You can't dance and wear and.

00:04:22:43 - 00:04:50:32
Unknown
So move your body. All right. And shake it up for your mom. Game. Shake all and demons. Back to the great. Get yourself. Turn back around. You love the game. For the joy for Sam.

00:04:50:37 - 00:04:55:52
Unknown
Till they last long. Cord rings out.

00:04:55:57 - 00:05:16:16
Unknown
Throw your worries down with the joy for salvation. Throw your worries down with joy for Sam and.

00:05:16:46 - 00:05:56:55
Unknown
Once again, you set up the whole podcast. Well, I'm great. Great tune. I loved, get the Beatles in your living room. Yeah, I love the, And really, what a great country to own the idea of of of songwriting, but just enjoying songs. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about that, because, you, you write like, a lot of very thoughtful lyrics in the sense that even if I'm just picking out a couple little gems in the course of you writing stuff.

00:05:57:00 - 00:06:24:46
Unknown
But, how do you go about it? Because, you know, you're, you're picking all sorts of different topics, obviously. But, you know, on the last podcast, we kind of said, you know, there's a little bit of the musician that, the wants to say something you when you're trying to say something in this song, but just give us a little bit, how you went into this just in songwriting in general?

00:06:24:46 - 00:06:48:19
Unknown
Yeah. This one. Oh, this isn't that. So let's just use this and then we'll we'll take it. Take it from there. Okay. So I, I tend to need, it's like Tom petty said, the hardest thing for him was to figure out what to write about once he has. Once he had the idea, he can do it in about ten minutes.

00:06:48:23 - 00:07:11:21
Unknown
But that's not really the case for me. I can't do it in ten minutes. But I do understand what he's saying. There where like the the most difficult thing is to, I tend to think that it's hard. It's harder for me to just grab an idea out of the thin air. I kind of, I kind of need,

00:07:11:26 - 00:07:38:21
Unknown
I get lucky sometimes where, you know, I'm. I'm distracted. I'm folding laundry, I'm washing dishes, and something pops into my head. You know. Okay. I'm sleeping. I'm dreaming, and I wake up and there's something there, you know, like, there's. I feel like the subconscious mind is as important an asset to songwriting as the conscious mind. Sure.

00:07:38:25 - 00:08:06:57
Unknown
You know, so like there's, there's those things where, you know, you, I obviously I realized that I need songs to be a songwriter. Right. There's, there's a, there's a knowingness, constantly that, this is what I do. I, I, you know, I'm, I'm looking for I'm actively looking for ideas. If I'm, if I'm not overtly trying.

00:08:07:04 - 00:08:27:59
Unknown
Okay. So you're actively looking for ideas in a very, an active way, I get it. So, if it pops into your mind, you, are you the kind of person that's like. Okay, I'd better write that down right now. Or are you the kind of person that says, well, if it's good enough, it'll it'll be there when I come and get it again.

00:08:28:04 - 00:09:02:03
Unknown
Yeah. I wish that were the case. I, I'm, I'm much more like I need to trap it is I need to, you know, the phones are a great way to just sing, a phrase into, you know, so you can have, a sense of the melody, the time, you know, everything, you know? I mean, a song key that, you know, might change or whatever, but, you know, if you capture a melody or, you know, which for me, I guess I guess most of the time it is a, a melodic idea that will come in not just like a line, like like, okay.

00:09:02:03 - 00:09:29:11
Unknown
The words have always been the harder thing for me. So I do. Okay. I know we're trying to talk about this one song, and I can't really if I'm thinking about a joyful sound and where that came from, I, I think I think it was that first line that came to me where I, I was just, all I really want to do is close my eyes and play for here, you know, like that, like it's a very.

00:09:29:11 - 00:09:55:26
Unknown
Yeah. It's honest. It's it's just a stupid little. But it's, It's so damn honest. I mean, you know, I mean, it's it's true. It's true. I mean, yeah, I, I do close my eyes a lot of times when I'm playing, just because, it seems like, you know, you don't necessarily need to be saying things to play, well, so you've got that.

00:09:55:26 - 00:10:20:37
Unknown
You've got that that little seed and, and you've, you know, let's just, assume that you put it on to your phone, maybe or or whatever, but, what's the next step in the process for you? You were kind of touching on that. You said, you know, Melody comes a little easier than lyric. Are you the kind of person I always ask every time I interview somebody?

00:10:20:42 - 00:10:47:52
Unknown
Are you walking around with the radio playing in your head of your melodies? Is that the kind of way that melody has worked for you or you? Is it also like your songs where you'll be washing the dishes and all of a sudden you hear, you know, just something starts creeping in? Well, I, I'm sort of full of these little things that I remember from other musicians, and I don't mean to lean on them so much, but these are the things that kind of inform me.

00:10:47:53 - 00:11:15:06
Unknown
So, you know, one of my heroes is Jerry Garcia, and, I remember him saying some time that, if he just sits there for any, any length of time, something is going to start playing some melody in his. And he said, you know, but it's cheap, just like, you know, so like, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's going to be like some facet of melody, you know, because, you know, we live, we live and breathe music, right?

00:11:15:06 - 00:11:42:53
Unknown
Like, right. You know, something, some groove, some song. Something's going to come in that's not really where it's at. It's. It's more about, getting past that, like. So. Yeah, there might there might be kind of a bass, a bass line thing running, but that's just the monkey mind that to me, like, that's just, you know, for maybe, maybe for some people it's not melodies, maybe it's just like dialog or something with thoughts.

00:11:42:53 - 00:12:01:20
Unknown
You know, let me ask you this. When you hear that melody in your head, how's it coming at? You know, you mentioned bass. I mean, are you hearing it in the dynamics since you were in the band, The Seeds. Yeah. Are you hearing it in the, the full finished dynamic where you're like oh yeah I can hear, you know the drums, I can hear that.

00:12:01:20 - 00:12:25:12
Unknown
Or are you hearing it from. I can hear me. So playing this guitar you know here, here we go again with me quoting other musicians. But here. Yeah. You have to hear these said, something, you know, to paraphrase, he said something like, you know, music will never sound as magical as it sounds when you hear it in your own head.

00:12:25:17 - 00:13:00:52
Unknown
It's like, you know, the minute you add a guitar or you start trying to figure out whatever it is, you may realize that idea. Yeah. You know, I think Jimi Hendrix said that to, you know, like the music that he hear heard in his head. It's like it's like the most magical expression of sound. So I don't necessarily hear it fully realized in my mind, but I do I do tend to hear, I don't really hear instrumentation, but when I get an idea, especially if it's like a melodic idea, it does.

00:13:00:57 - 00:13:21:05
Unknown
It does tend to sound pretty complete in my mind, you know? Like so once you do try to figure it out, it does. I do get what Jeff Tweedy is saying, like it does. It's like, well, was that it was there. Is there a step between though? Is that the kind of thing where, you're like, okay, I better, you know, run to the phone and then you oh yeah.

00:13:21:05 - 00:13:45:40
Unknown
You get it to the guitar. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. So, so usually it's, you know, it's sing a, sing a little snippet of a melody, even if the words aren't there. Just. Yeah, I, you know, I would probably take what Tweety is saying and I get what he's saying, but I think where the magic is gets a little more difficult to replicate is going into the studio.

00:13:45:45 - 00:14:13:05
Unknown
There's a slider. Sure. You know, but, but that being said, so you're, you're, you're putting, you're putting this down and you're writing it for guitar. One of the things that, has caught me in the last podcast is, I'm listening to a play, and also up comes this chord that I didn't expect, you know, and it's it's it's really welcome and nice.

00:14:13:05 - 00:14:34:15
Unknown
It's it's, it's like a little refreshing oasis where you're like, oh, well, we just, you know, or bend in the road all of a sudden you're like, oh, wow. Oh, how cool. You know, it was my reaction to that. Is that something that you, you know, when you're, you're crafting, are you like, okay, I got my melody out, my melody.

00:14:34:20 - 00:14:57:39
Unknown
What am I going to do for that? You know, listen, am I going to throw a little surprise at, you know, let me know? Or is it just kind of like it's complete? So that kind of thing goes back to my just general ethos as a musician, which is that, you know, I, I will probably, if you like, one thing that I played, don't listen for it.

00:14:57:39 - 00:15:21:49
Unknown
The next time I'm going to disappoint you. You know, I think that's great. It's never going to be the same, ever. Because that's. I feel like, the magic is in the journey, you know, like, your songs are, you know, and there's even words. I'll change words. Yeah. You know, after I've made an album and recorded them, if I go, oh, it should have been that.

00:15:21:54 - 00:15:42:22
Unknown
I like that. And I really do like that because I think in in song crafting, it is funny when you come back on a song that you've written, you know, ten years ago or so, whatever, and you're like, oh man, yeah, look ahead. You know, this, this fits. That's part of the like performance as well. You're constantly refining.

00:15:42:29 - 00:16:12:24
Unknown
You're on this. You're on this journey of discovery. You know, like my, my whole idea is to never feel like I've arrived. You know, I need to. I need to keep open to the possibility that there's something around that next band that's going to inspire me. You know? I mean, I was just listening to, Bob Dylan yesterday from some recent concert, and he was playing,

00:16:12:29 - 00:16:36:26
Unknown
When I paint my masterpiece. And it was, like a completely different song, you know, minor key, radically different melody. But that's Dylan, you know, and he's he's one of those guys, you know, he's like one of the the people I look to, this sort of helped shape my attitude about music, you know, like, let's just keep let's see where this thing goes.

00:16:36:28 - 00:17:03:29
Unknown
And that's very freeing in a way, because, like, I saw Steve Earle one time out in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, and, and, you know, people were waiting to hear Guitar Town and, you know, so maybe about three songs, four songs. And he's like, okay, well, here's all my hits, you know, Guitar Town, Copperhead Road, you know, and everything like that, you know, and I get it.

00:17:03:33 - 00:17:29:40
Unknown
But here you have a guy like Dylan who's like, yeah, here's, here's a song that, you know, everybody knows I'm going to play it for you, but I'm going to play in a completely different way. So I didn't even know it was that song. But I think that's great in a way, because I think, most singer songwriters, I think the bane of successful ones is, hey, play that play that hit, you know?

00:17:29:45 - 00:18:03:03
Unknown
But, that doesn't work for me. Yeah. And, I would say, in terms of writing, I had a big epiphany when I was making my last studio record. Okay. In 20, I guess we were recording in 2019. So pre-pandemic, but I worked with a producer in town named Brian Deck. Is that familiar? Doesn't ring a bell, but it's, you know.

00:18:03:08 - 00:18:27:32
Unknown
Yeah. So, you know, it's, he's he was different than anyone I'd ever worked with because I. I came to him, I knew some people he had worked with, you know? Okay. And I was. I was excited, you know, he. Sure. He had a he has a reputation. And, I was I was excited to meet him and to work, you know, to get to work on the songs.

00:18:27:32 - 00:18:47:48
Unknown
I had like, 20 songs, and I. He came over to the house, I played a few things for him, and then I gave him some, like a CD or something of the songs, and I waited a few weeks and didn't hear from him. And then when I finally did, I was like, so what'd you think of the songs?

00:18:47:48 - 00:18:55:03
Unknown
And he was like, they all need work.

00:18:55:08 - 00:19:17:26
Unknown
And how did you feel about that? I was like, yeah, no, I was like, what? You know, because, but what I, what I, what he said was, you know, he's like, I think they all have potential that, you know, the melodies are good. The the skeleton is there. But what he was hearing was that this the the stories weren't finished.

00:19:17:37 - 00:19:47:55
Unknown
Oh, that's that's interesting. It was, And it got me back to. I, I needed that because like I said, you know, I, I came up playing, you know, long solos more focused on the music, you know. Right. Lyrics were not something that were central to, like, I never really pictured myself as a lyricist, you know? Right.

00:19:48:05 - 00:20:16:23
Unknown
But here I find myself in the Americana shine. Or, you know, a singer songwriter, you know, in this world, some people are coming to the shows for that more than anything else, you know? Well, yeah, I mean, I would say a good chunk of, of, of Americana music, is, is based upon, you know, the, the pedigree is, you know, a ballad that's a skillful music for Celtic, you know.

00:20:16:23 - 00:20:38:10
Unknown
Yeah. The English murder bill, you know. Yeah. Here's what happened, here's what you know. And they felt this way, or even if it's not, you know, even if, you know, we're not dealing with it doesn't have to be a story. But whatever it is, if it's imagery, is the imagery ready? Is it complete? Is it is it does it hold its weight?

00:20:38:10 - 00:20:59:02
Unknown
Is, you know, is it anchored? Is it where you want to leave it? You know, once, once you make a record or, you know, once you write a line on a page, you know, see, I used to I used to be guilty of, like, just writing down a bunch of throwaway lyrics, and then leaving it. Right, because I don't know, it's just a song that goes, you know, a song and something you got.

00:20:59:02 - 00:21:29:28
Unknown
You jam for the dancers, you know? And you know, some of that is, when playing out, a song, you're crafting it too, because you have that live element in your you're trying to get that reaction and, and, you know, Dylan again, he's a great example, of, a lyricist that could write he could put together words that have real story line.

00:21:29:32 - 00:22:04:48
Unknown
It sounds like it might have a story line, or the story might be his along and for you to interpret, you know, so it's interesting that, that your producer gave you, you know, that idea that it was incomplete or did you find what he said to be true? Yes. So that's that's where the real lesson came in and why I'm so glad that that is who I ended up working with for that record, because by the time I sat down and looked at what I had written, I felt that.

00:22:04:52 - 00:22:42:44
Unknown
And there were maybe like 2 or 3 songs that he didn't touch. He said, these are good. But the ones that he said, take a look at this, take a look at this. I felt that in each case he was right. A good producer. Yeah. And I, I made those songs much, much better. Has it changed than your, your songwriting since then I yeah, I, I actually feel like there that that sort of started a new phase for me where, where he got me to in my, in my critical mind and, my editing, my editor mind.

00:22:42:45 - 00:23:03:39
Unknown
Sure. Okay. He brought me to that place where. Yeah, you have to be your own editor. You know, you have these rough ideas, but you have to keep chopping away at that stone until it's realized. We bring you up a lot of good points, and I want you to gather up your next song to play. But, yes.

00:23:03:44 - 00:23:29:54
Unknown
One of the tricks I I've learned over time is is right. And then start pulling words, you know, lighten the ballast and see if that tightens up the song and gives it a little more of a firmer sense of direction. But, so you do have to kind of develop the self editor. No, I, I read a lot of songs with, Brian Fitzgerald.

00:23:29:54 - 00:23:57:10
Unknown
And so, you know, the there is that built in. So, yeah. You guys have each other. Yeah. We can, you know, and we, you know, we argue like brothers over all that's, you know, and that kind of thing. Then it works out and it works out a nice, solid thing. But when you're solo and you know, you have to be your own self editor and you rightfully pointed out, one way you can edit is by playing out, you know, yeah.

00:23:57:10 - 00:24:26:45
Unknown
See what works in here. You environment, see what people respond to. Yeah. Yeah. So that that has me in this whole mindset now where a song isn't even if you think it's finished, it's probably not. And I've learned that so many times since then. Every song I've written since then has undergone that same kind of scrutiny. Yeah, and I just enjoy it, actually.

00:24:26:45 - 00:24:53:18
Unknown
It's gotten me closer to, understanding what songwriting as a craft kind of really entails. Right, right. I've, I've really enjoyed I enjoyed doing that. You know, Walt Whitman kind of gave us, permission, you know, because he, he went through leaves of grass. I don't know how many auditions he went through. And rewrote. There he goes.

00:24:53:23 - 00:25:16:56
Unknown
He wrote the poems. Yeah. And I think I think in some ways it would be interesting if one artist, if an artist just said that a song that, you know, that was the expected song on every album, but it got tweaked or changed. Kinda like what Dylan's doing in a live performance, but, but give us something here, and, then we'll take a little break and come back with more with Ernie Hendrickson.

00:25:17:01 - 00:25:18:44
Unknown
What do you got?

00:25:35:19 - 00:26:07:28
Unknown
We ever needed a song. Need it tonight. Fires club. Is that, We sign if we ever needed some. If we ever needed some. We needed to. That.

00:26:07:33 - 00:26:39:59
Unknown
If we ever needed a sign, we needed to, to keep on holding the line to the moment. Well, I if we ever needed a sign, if we ever needed sign here tonight.

00:26:40:04 - 00:27:18:59
Unknown
If you never needed, you needed to, To call the violin strong. Fill the sky. It's given me the cloud. It's the apple needed. If we ever needed one, if we ever need it now, we need it tonight.

00:27:19:04 - 00:27:27:01
Unknown
Oh.

00:27:27:06 - 00:27:35:12
Unknown
For.

00:27:35:16 - 00:28:26:41
Unknown
For us. You. Oh, you. Oh, man. If we ever need it, every. We need it tonight. One drink for all of every living sad if we ever need it. Came. If we ever need anything. We need to make.

00:28:26:46 - 00:29:04:51
Unknown
Money. The song here tonight. A song they call a piece from rallying cry is the ever needed song. The singer needed a song. If he ever needed a song. It's when we need it. So we need it tonight.

00:29:04:55 - 00:29:12:48
Unknown
Oh.

00:29:12:53 - 00:29:17:36
Unknown
Oh.

00:29:17:41 - 00:29:26:04
Unknown
You. Oh.

00:29:26:08 - 00:29:33:24
Unknown
Oh. No.

00:29:34:26 - 00:29:41:40
Unknown
Some great ending to that. We're going to be right back after this. You're on strung out.

00:29:41:40 - 00:30:19:06
Unknown
Hello subscribers, and welcome to Inside Views of Mardi Fine Art, where people are talking about their collected works by artist Martin Al McCormick. Like this planar watercolor titled River Bower, Donegal, Ireland, recently purchased by Cindy Roby. Her trip to Ireland was such a gift. Even more so is the forever reminder of the trip we had to. Marty's painting was a Bower Donegal.

00:30:19:11 - 00:30:47:40
Unknown
It is a beautiful rendition of a path we actually had the pleasure of walking. Marty masterfully captured the light through the trees, the gentle breeze and the brilliance of the soft colored leaves. It truly embodies the peace and tranquility of Ireland. We all remember it always, along with the friendships made and the memories that this unforgettable painting inspires.

00:30:47:45 - 00:31:05:38
Unknown
Thank you for supporting Marty Fine Art, Cindy. Additional originals and prints and merchandise of all of Marty's art can be purchased at Martin mccormick.com.

00:31:05:38 - 00:31:34:19
Unknown
All right. I really like that song. And what I like is the fact that you, your. This is another way of writing a song in which you're kind of given something, an assignment, a little bit of pressure. And, how do you, how do you work with pressure. I mean, are you the kind of, singer songwriter that self-imposed is a deadline?

00:31:34:24 - 00:32:08:18
Unknown
I'm one oneself. I mean, you kind of had to for the last album, you know, for the, producer, you know, get to get the 20 songs. But, I mean, that takes a lot of work. Yeah. Putting together a compilation of stuff. So how does it work. You know with Ernie. Hendrickson. Do you do you say okay, I've got this melody, I've got this, idea, I would like to have it done by.

00:32:08:23 - 00:32:25:16
Unknown
Is there, a finishing date or are you the kind of person, like, now? Not not what we were talking about the idea of tweaking it as you go along, but the idea of, like, you know, I'm going, I'm going to be a cafe group, you know, again, and, I better have a new one. Yeah.

00:32:25:18 - 00:32:54:07
Unknown
I mean, how does that work for you? Like things like that do enter in. They do factor in where, like live performances that are going to that are going to happen. And you know that you want something new. You know, it does. It does help. I think, to have a little pressure. Sure. You know, like when you're an independent musician, which I have been my whole life, I don't I don't have to do I don't have to make an album.

00:32:54:20 - 00:33:26:30
Unknown
You're right, I don't. Nobody's nobody's expecting me to do something. So, you know, I, I don't understand that kind of pressure that people have had to, you know, like that are on major labels or something where like, you know, you have to have a single, you know, we need something to put out. So not having that kind of oversight, it's sort of you could you could fall into complacency.

00:33:26:35 - 00:33:48:24
Unknown
You took the word, right? Yeah. Yeah. You could fall into that. And and so it's, you know, you have to you have to self-imposed, you know, some kind of pressure on yourself. So things like Gerald's show. Right. I don't know. And actually, to any benefit, you know. Oh, yeah. I've interviewed Jenny, and I know she has the haiku.

00:33:48:35 - 00:34:11:00
Unknown
Yeah. Where? It's a great idea. I mean, that it's a really cool thing. The idea of, like, forcing you to to get creative under a certain amount of, you know, pressure cooker to some degree. Right? So I've done her show now, I think, three times. And that was the first time I did it. I remember feeling, you know, I don't I don't know if I can do this.

00:34:11:13 - 00:34:41:20
Unknown
Right. Okay. I like, like I said, you know, I'm sort of one of these people that, like, just wants to have the antennas on, so I can catch whatever idea, you know, it's more of a long game. Sure. Usually for me, where I'm trying not to stress out about it, I'm trying to just do the kinds of things that I know I need to do to stay in a healthy, productive, creative zone.

00:34:41:25 - 00:35:07:23
Unknown
Let me on time. Let me ask you this then. That being said, in staying in that creative zone, do you have in the back of your mind like, I made my last album and such and such year, I feel like I, you know, is that the impetus, like, not. You know, I would like to put together another compilation of songs or something like that.

00:35:07:27 - 00:35:33:24
Unknown
There has to be something that kind of moves you along, or else you are complacent and if you're playing the same thing over and over again, it seems like maybe the audience is going to, you know, at some point, say, heard that one. There is a pressure. Yeah, there's a pressure that I feel to keep things fresh one way or another.

00:35:33:28 - 00:35:55:40
Unknown
And yeah, you know, having time, time goes quick too, you know, like, the last studio record I made was in 2019. Yeah, it's already 2025. I mean, you know, so it's crazy how it marches like that. So I got the live album done, which did have maybe six or so, 6 or 7 new songs on it.

00:35:55:43 - 00:36:30:46
Unknown
Nice. Okay. One way for me to just kind of do it and, you know, and not spend, you know, the whole bank doing it also because, you know, studio records. How did that turn out for your ability? You know, studio records are very expensive. And, let's just leave it at the. You, and and maybe not for the right reasons, you know, if it's a kid in the candy store kind of thing, you know, in some ways, at least, I feel when I'm making an album, you know, a switch back, it's just like, oh, well, we can have this.

00:36:30:46 - 00:37:00:13
Unknown
We could do the butterflies album. Were you able. We happy with the results? Were you able to. You feel like. Yeah, I caught the essence of that, you know, that, that moment I, I typically, enjoy how I've music ends up sounding. So in that way, yes, I, I'm happy with it. Now, have I played shows since then where I've said, why wasn't this the one that we were?

00:37:00:18 - 00:37:27:04
Unknown
Let's for the next five albums. Come on. Yeah yeah, yeah. Was there something about when the cameras are rolling? Or where? Just that factor alone. It's you can try to put it out of your mind. Right. But it's almost like there's, there's, you know, there's something that can happen when, you know, it's it's kind of like that, that thing about that.

00:37:27:14 - 00:37:52:59
Unknown
You know, what if we actually had to be in the same room with the people that we're in? Right. Right. Like this. This immediacy of all we're doing here is trying to connect with each other. Yeah. Not doing this for some other reason, you know. Right. That's kind of some magic can happen there. So. But I, you know, I feel like there's potential in doing more live recordings because I do.

00:37:52:59 - 00:38:15:33
Unknown
I just like the energy. Well, and you've, you've, you've, brought it to a place where you can deliver in such a way that you're the whole package with it, you know, and that's a that's a real positive thing. You know, of, of, recording where you're talking about, you know, bringing in your sister or, you know, whatever it is, it can create a, a different nuance.

00:38:15:35 - 00:38:51:27
Unknown
Yeah. And, yeah, it's difficult to kind of get around that, you know, the, the tapes rolling kind of thing. But still, I think when you get immersed into the moment, it kind of goes to some, to some degree it goes away. And that being said, you know, let's, let's get you into the moment on this next song because, I've noticed you have over here like an iPad or that has some lyrics on it, and this is a relatively fresh song that you said to me.

00:38:51:27 - 00:39:13:03
Unknown
And the reason why I want to point out is, is, for songwriters, you can either hold up their pants or they can just the people can see what we're referring to. This is one of those, you know, nifty things. I mean, I have a, you know, a yellow pad with a pencil thing. Think, let's do you like this that way or do you.

00:39:13:03 - 00:39:35:20
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, yeah, the tablets are nice. Just because, you've got everything. So these are just handwritten sheets of paper that I scanned in. Oh, okay. So you do write for here? Oh, yeah. That's by hand. That's interesting. Yeah. And but then I just keep it all in one spot. So I'm at. Very cool. And, is there joy in the handwriting experience of it.

00:39:35:20 - 00:39:57:38
Unknown
Is there is that part of the process? I mean, you know, there's some people that certain are able to type I don't or do you feel like really particularly that I don't have much of, most of my writing is just running things through my mind. And I mean, I'll even, you know, dictate it into the phone.

00:39:57:38 - 00:40:28:27
Unknown
Has dictation notes to say the lines into my phone. Yeah. Right. Right, right. That way, so that I'm not to connected to the typing or the writing. I at that I, I have that's like, you know, I'm more like, I kind of like to be moving, doing some, some other thing, like, like washing dishes. Okay. Washing dishes is a, I'm a professional dishwasher here at the house and, you know, brought to you by to get dove dishwashing.

00:40:28:32 - 00:40:51:13
Unknown
But, you know, the more I feel like, the more you can, I, I heard Paul Simon used to, like, take a ball, you know, and throw it into a glove, you know, just like, just just something that, like, gets your mind to free the subconscious, as he was saying. Yeah, a little restricted so that, you know, if I sit down and I'm just like, okay, the next slide, what's the next slide?

00:40:51:18 - 00:41:19:18
Unknown
It's not really going to work for me. But if I stay in that place of like, I know it's there, you know, and this is the thing that I feel like I've had sort of an epiphany with, in in recent years or since since the Brain Depth album that I made is that, man, you know, there's a feeling when you hit on something.

00:41:19:29 - 00:41:48:08
Unknown
Yeah. When you, you go, oh, that's that's it. That that that shivery feeling. Yeah. It's it's like weird. Yeah. Keep going. Songwriter keep going and keep chasing that feeling because you know it. There's it's there. It's. You have to believe that it's there. You know you're you get stuck sometimes. Right? And you go this where is this versus going.

00:41:48:08 - 00:42:12:39
Unknown
And you have something and you've settled on it and you go, something keeps nagging at you and saying, yeah, that's not it. That's not it. So go to sleep, wash some dishes, walk around the block, do something. And but you know, with the thought that you're working but you're not actually working. You're not actually working. There's something to be said about that.

00:42:12:39 - 00:42:38:31
Unknown
Yeah. I will take my dog for a walk. Yeah. And kind of, just allow the subconscious, you know, to to percolate. Absolutely. And certain things. I would like you to play this, and I think this is a good benefit to our singer songwriters out there aspiring. And that because the song is in, progression, right, to some degree.

00:42:38:36 - 00:43:01:49
Unknown
So, and that's very brave of you, first of all, for doing that. And, second of all, it's it's going to be great because, we'll get to see a little bit of the songwriter in action. And, so what's the song called? This one, I guess, if you want me to try it. Yeah, I do, and if we if we crash and burn this, that's, you know, that's okay.

00:43:01:49 - 00:43:18:17
Unknown
This is a brand new song, and it's, it's called Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner. And it it's going to go up to, anyone dealing with a loved one struggling. I mean, anyone that has a loved one struggling with addiction. All right.

00:43:28:53 - 00:43:58:20
Unknown
You don't know the truth from a lie. You better run that same over that. Now, this time is gonna be different. You gonna get your act playing real quick. Take it and drag up on your last cigaret. Wondering where all Will Ferrell.

00:43:58:25 - 00:44:28:30
Unknown
Is how far down from the bottom can he go? You always seem to find a new dog, half dead, sleeping on a cold slab floor. I want that every. Have you ready for what Goodyear has tried to tell? Are you sober? Breaking your mother's heart on the.

00:44:28:35 - 00:44:58:50
Unknown
You disappear for weeks at a time. We hardly know if you're leaving. Like I'm sure I'm strung out. You need some for a few hundred dollars till the next check comes in. It's a matter of having you remember. Hey, the sin of the sinner.

00:44:58:55 - 00:45:10:30
Unknown
Back there.

00:45:10:34 - 00:45:28:21
Unknown
There.

00:45:28:26 - 00:45:50:43
Unknown
You want. You can't change or don't want change. Head on to how hard we try this crew of faith. When you love somebody, see them living slow. Said don't.

00:45:50:48 - 00:46:21:48
Unknown
Yell. The Delta rough had to say. At least I understand how hard it must be. You took a trip that you didn't sign up for pay back. Never saying any more. This better after picking up the pieces, what else could have been? So help me Jesus.

00:46:21:52 - 00:47:01:36
Unknown
That whole smile is what I will remember. Your hands playing that black square. I felt that I was the song that said. Why do you pay for anything bad happen to you? I do many things, then go back there again to write out the story with a different way. I can't let my heart grow, baby. I hate to that love the sinner.

00:47:01:40 - 00:47:21:38
Unknown
To sin, love the sin.

00:47:21:38 - 00:47:46:27
Unknown
Hello, Polly Chase. Presenting artwork by Martin McCormick. There are many reasons to buy art. You might choose a piece for financial investment or to put the finishing touch on interior decoration. You can buy work because it speaks to you or you are a friend of the artist. And then there is art that you buy for the sheer fun of it.

00:47:46:32 - 00:48:15:17
Unknown
These pop art portraits in the Man and Dog series definitely fall into the fun category. Each acrylic on canvas measures 12 by nine. They can be purchased individually or as a complete set of four. They are a playful testament to companionship that stands the test of time and a vast wardrobe. Check out this painting and more of Marty's artwork on Martin mccormick.com.

00:48:15:22 - 00:48:24:20
Unknown
You can also email me with your interests at Marty Fine Art at gmail.com.

00:48:24:25 - 00:48:26:34
Unknown
Or.

00:48:26:34 - 00:49:04:30
Unknown
Thank you for again for being brave. And, it's not easy. First of all, it's not easy to be, podcast playing around, you know, trying to just, expose yourself. But, what I really like about this song is, there's an element in all of it that, that I listening to it, I can identify with that sense of, not being able to have control over another individual in.

00:49:04:35 - 00:49:30:33
Unknown
And so you have to at some point, you have to you have to kind of separate the what's going on and, you know, and that that old, old line, you know, hate the sin but love the sinner. Yeah. It's it's such a, an American kind of thing, too. You know, it fits so well with this whole genre and and everything else, but so personal too.

00:49:30:38 - 00:50:07:59
Unknown
Right. And, I think it's maybe more personal than anything I've ever written. Yeah. So. And that being said, you know, what's at risk for you for doing the, well, you know. It's it's certainly, it opens a new door. You know, I feel like that's kind of the progression, you know, that we we we're trying to be honest, you know, as honest as we can be.

00:50:08:04 - 00:50:33:06
Unknown
That's really where I think your real power is. Yeah. You know, because if you if you're trying to be, smart or witty, clever or, you know, or, you know, you want to go read Greek mythology or something, and then, you know, try to write something deep, you know, I mean, people are going to see right through that, you know?

00:50:33:11 - 00:50:59:48
Unknown
But but if you speak from your heart, right, that's the universal language. Right. And, the, the in your, your lyrics, on this song, the one that really jumped out at me, that I love is a soft ground. I call it picking up the pieces. And so help me. Jesus. Yeah. Like. Yeah. In between there, the,

00:50:59:53 - 00:51:26:06
Unknown
So. Well done. I mean, the the soft rooms are a wonderful way of of being able to, to get out a point without being lost in that. Clever. Yeah. You know, you find that you find, a way in which the person can go along, but yet. So Jesus. And pieces. Not exactly. But because of that, that soft rhyming that that that.

00:51:26:13 - 00:51:52:12
Unknown
So help me Jesus. You know, if only you would have known. You know, I'm paraphrasing you, you know, so help me Jesus instead of, you know, it hits you harder. Well, you know, yeah. With this, like, not having to have an exact rhyme, right? It just opens up the possibilities for expression. You know, the the palate is enormously more, more available to it.

00:51:52:12 - 00:52:13:25
Unknown
It's not like I'm going to try to do an exact rhyme, you know, like I want to find the one that is exact. Yeah. And I will try. But when something happens, that's close. And I love it and it, you know, and it it, you know, I feel like that just knocks a point home. I'm going to use that, you know.

00:52:13:27 - 00:52:52:06
Unknown
Well I think yeah I, I love, I love soft homes for that reason that, they catch you unawares and because of that, that, you know, all of a sudden you're, you're, you're making the listener the drawing them in even more. Let's just briefly talk, as we wrap things up here, about the idea of, like you said, to be personal to to be your authentic self and to be able to to move that through music is, kind of what we strive for as singer songwriters.

00:52:52:11 - 00:53:15:10
Unknown
And, but yet we also want to hear that in such a way. And, and you can disagree. But it that you want the listener to take it and make it the room and, so for you, you know, when you deliver that song, does it matter to you that, you know, do you have to even.

00:53:15:22 - 00:53:39:50
Unknown
Will you let me put it that way? Will you preface it and say, you know, this is a personal song or something like that, or will you be like, here's the song I wrote, or how do you well, you know, these days I tend to in especially if I'm just, a solo, if I'm just playing solo in front of a crowd, I feel like I open up way more than I used to.

00:53:40:04 - 00:54:09:37
Unknown
Okay. To my audiences. Yeah. And, because I, I feel like that's just part of that gig. If you're going around and playing solo shows, part of the gig is to be vulnerable, to open yourself. You know, it's kind of easy when you have a band. Yes. I just played a show the other night, in Rockford at a place called Mary's that, I used to always play that.

00:54:09:37 - 00:54:25:54
Unknown
And when when, whenever I played Mary's, it's more of that, like we're going to. This is all about musical exploration. We're just going to get deep into the music. And that's what the band did. It was it was Gerald Dowd and Brian Gokey and Pete Machan. That's that's kind of a quartet that I work with pretty regular.

00:54:25:54 - 00:54:57:02
Unknown
Cool. Yeah it's yeah, great band. And we do a lot of so just to kind of contrast what I'm telling you, I barely said anything to the crowd that night, right. Almost nothing. And I was conscious of that because I wanted the music to carry that evening, kind of, and especially with other people on the stage, even even with one other person on the stage, it almost limits the talking that you feel like you can do.

00:54:57:07 - 00:55:41:09
Unknown
I'll tell this to my partner. You. I'll tell you. He'll tell you that clarinet case. Well, yeah. Well, like, I mean, at least for me, I if I have somebody on stage, you know, and I'm trying to talk to a crowd, I can just feel like, yeah, I'm like, let's get going. But I think what you're touching on, I think, is, and this is a great way to wrap up the podcast because you're talking about how presenting a song and there's there is no right or wrong way, but there is a way which I think, it comes from a place of confidence in which you are able to say it.

00:55:41:23 - 00:56:11:02
Unknown
You know, you don't have to necessarily like in the instance of that song and say, well, this is a personal experience, but you can you can give that set up and say, we all have, you know, we all have our crosses to bear. We all have. We all know somebody that shared a, an addiction. And and you might know somebody right now and, you know, and you know that that set up is an integral part of being a singer songwriter.

00:56:11:02 - 00:56:32:35
Unknown
It is. It's part of the job. Yeah. I've realized and I never, you know, I never wanted to do that for the longest time. But then when I started, like maybe ten years ago, I keep saying ten years, I'm going to have to tack on another five. That's it. That's what middle age does mean. And everything feels like ten years.

00:56:32:35 - 00:57:03:18
Unknown
I'm sure it's yeah, 18 by now. But you know, for as long as I've been going around playing solo shows, I've had to it's almost like a whole new craft that you're learning. Like I've had to learn what my communication style is and, and I'm not saying I'm a stand up comedian or anything, but what I have, what I have found is that humor is is a great way to absolutely break the ice with the crowd.

00:57:03:18 - 00:57:48:43
Unknown
And, you know, it's very easy to be self-deprecating when you have, you know, so many failures on your record and and this, you know, this is, you know, ties up nicely with a bowl. What we said, even in the first podcast is that, you know, when you did that song, what if the world went dark and, you know, singing that moment, those kind of shared moments of, and sharing the energy and the exchange comes from, the singer songwriter being able to be vulnerable and open and, without being overly emotional, but just able to, to to bring along the audience on a kind of a journey into the music.

00:57:48:47 - 00:58:22:38
Unknown
Which takes a lot of skill. It's it's not an easy thing to do, and it's not it's, you know, you learn, you learn about the whole it's it it's constantly revealing itself to you what this walk of life is really all about. Right. Kind of a constant self review because the song you, you know, that you have, you know that, of course, those are kind of marked in time, but you're going to grow and mature and change.

00:58:22:38 - 00:58:48:56
Unknown
And so, plus you're also offering this gift to people to say, take, take this. And, you know, make it your own. And as far as, you know, internalizing it and, you know, I'm sure you've had people come up and say to you, you know, that song you do, that's a song that, you know, we've listened to, you know, whatever, you know, and that's, part of the reward of, of crafting a good song.

00:58:49:02 - 00:59:16:21
Unknown
And, I want to thank you so much. We could have turned this into a 15 hour. It might already be. But. Ernie. Hendrickson. Just for the listening audience. Give your website again. That would be Ernie hendrickson.com. All right. And, for those of you that are watching this on YouTube, you'll see it displayed throughout.

00:59:16:25 - 00:59:39:07
Unknown
Go to Ernie hendrickson.com, and you can pick up where he's playing around, Northern Illinois. And, what a pleasure. And allowing me to be in your home. And I wish you, a just a fantastic musical journey and I hope I truly hope our paths cross again on YouTube. All right. Thanks a lot. So play us out.

00:59:39:07 - 00:59:53:21
Unknown
Give us a good one. Whatever you want, you know? All right, we'll, we'll end with this one, that I wrote for one of the Jenny Benjamin shows. Perfect. It's called Love is Not Heavy.

00:59:53:21 - 01:00:13:19
Unknown
And. The love is not heavy through everything. Yeah, yeah. That's how you really know. Do.

01:00:13:24 - 01:00:55:18
Unknown
Because you got what better reason to say or do. Push. You love love love love without any other reasons. Compared compare. You love to do what you do. You do what you love. It's what you love. You love. You know.

01:00:55:23 - 01:01:45:03
Unknown
I started out with nothing, I got nothing still, I confess, I always been feeling that I was. I made a promise to. I want hard, a seat at the table before the demons start. You. It's that simple. Just like a little kid. What the devil you know. But you know I love you. I do love you.

01:01:45:03 - 01:01:57:46
Unknown
I love la la la la la la la la la. You know, well, if there's writers that I like that.

01:01:57:51 - 01:02:12:27
Unknown
Have found in the roster over the last few times, I. You.

01:02:12:32 - 01:02:28:13
Unknown
You know no doubt. And I don't la la la la la la la la la la.

01:02:28:18 - 01:02:40:17
Unknown
I, I do, I do, I.

01:02:40:21 - 01:02:44:05
Unknown
Love.

01:02:44:10 - 01:02:48:43
Unknown
La.

01:02:48:48 - 01:03:05:19
Unknown
Oh, God. No no no no no. No. No no. Don't ever.

01:03:05:24 - 01:03:10:23
Unknown
Know.

01:03:10:28 - 01:03:26:08
Unknown
How I'm gonna do it all down. De la la la la la la. Love is not I don't.

01:03:26:08 - 01:03:43:51
Unknown
Thank you for listening. For more information about this show or a transcript, visit Martin mccormack.com while there. Sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung Out.

01:03:43:56 - 01:03:56:43
Unknown
It's so strong. Spain, we feel, makes no sense at all. The swan song wasn't part of the deal, was no good. All giving no choice. Giving us a.