Strung Out Episode 242: SINGER-SONGWRITER STEVE DAWSON/FROM SASKATCHEWAN TO CHICAGO

Well-known for the alternative country band Dolly Varden, as well as Stump the Host, Steve Dawson is a lifer when it comes to music.  His family roots in Saskatchewan, Dawson has lived for a time in California and Idaho before heading to Chicago in the late 1980's dragging all that western with him.  There, he found a music scene that embraced his style of writing and performing. 

Chicago being cross-roads of the country-- has its own peculiar mixture of dustbowl, Appalachian, western, bluegrass, Celtic, Mexican, jazz, blues, country and garage rock.  Those elements are all called upon when it comes to being a singer with a guitar in the Windy City, let alone a full band. The small clubs had patrons of all stripes who expected such a mix and were delighted when a band dished out its own special recipe.  Though tough to make a living solely on them, these clubs were the perfect place for experimentation, expression and performance. 

It's the salsa---not the chips, and Dawson's mix of songwriting is personal, powerful and worth indulging in.  A contemplative man, painfully open, yet guarded enough, Steve Dawson is proof that the city of Big Shoulders is also the city of singer-songwriters.  His bandmate, wife and artist in her own right Diane Christiansen, make their home not too far from those clubs along Division Street.  His website is www.SteveDawsonmusic.com.

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:14:44
Unknown
Welcome to Strung Out, the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist. Your host is the artist, writer and musician Martin Lawrence McCormack. Now here's Marty.

00:00:14:44 - 00:00:25:29
Unknown
Strung Out. I am at the home of Steve, Dustin and, Steve is, I would say, a fixture in the Chicago musical scene. Sure. In a good way.

00:00:25:34 - 00:00:51:49
Unknown
Fixtures are good. You've been, a person that's very instrumental in a lot of the Americana music in that. And, really looking forward to talking to about, not only your, your experiences, but, in the second podcast when we talk more about song crafting. We've got a very rich resource here, folks. But first, we'll dive in and we got a little on the dog.

00:00:51:49 - 00:01:11:59
Unknown
Right? Yeah. There's here. He's keeping us company. Good on you, Leo. You are much more calmer than capers. Listen, tell us what's what's the name of this first song? This is, that I, a lot of times have been playing, so I'll start on shows with because it's a little bit, autobiographical about my sort of family history.

00:01:11:59 - 00:01:16:05
Unknown
It's called, Saskatchewan to Chicago.

00:01:16:05 - 00:01:35:26
Unknown
grandfather lives to sketch you on from California. Yeah. My great grandfather who lives is is you the California?

00:01:35:31 - 00:01:39:40
Unknown
For the warmth of the sun.

00:01:39:45 - 00:01:44:58
Unknown
And the smell of the ocean.

00:01:45:02 - 00:01:56:13
Unknown
And then I grab on to the job as a teacher in New Mexico.

00:01:56:17 - 00:02:06:04
Unknown
Yeah. My grandpa took a job as a teacher here in New Mexico.

00:02:06:09 - 00:02:21:22
Unknown
It was to have an impression. There was no way else to go.

00:02:21:27 - 00:02:40:18
Unknown
Do.

00:02:40:23 - 00:02:46:10
Unknown
You do.

00:02:46:15 - 00:02:56:07
Unknown
When I was 12, my father moved up that way. Up into the mountains.

00:02:56:12 - 00:03:06:35
Unknown
When I was 12, my father in that family. Up into the mountains.

00:03:06:40 - 00:03:16:14
Unknown
They first went to. We had six feet of snow.

00:03:16:19 - 00:03:26:36
Unknown
And I go fishing on a certain river that ran behind.

00:03:26:41 - 00:03:36:31
Unknown
I don't, you know, somewhere that maybe,

00:03:36:36 - 00:03:50:02
Unknown
I was singing to the trees and singing to the water.

00:03:50:07 - 00:03:57:01
Unknown
And,

00:03:57:06 - 00:04:05:57
Unknown
I.

00:04:06:02 - 00:04:16:59
Unknown
Mean.

00:04:17:04 - 00:04:35:57
Unknown
I you follow in the footsteps of the friendship that ended in Chicago. And. I went to the footsteps of a friendship that ended in Chicago.

00:04:36:02 - 00:04:46:50
Unknown
You now members. That was 35 years ago.

00:04:46:55 - 00:04:57:37
Unknown
Well, my great grandfather lives. Is as you from California.

00:04:57:42 - 00:04:59:31
Unknown
Interesting to hear about, you know,

00:04:59:45 - 00:05:15:20
Unknown
I kind of can appreciate that Western sentiment, you know, that's that's, permeate to. Well, your music, obviously, you have a little bit of that Western feeling, but also the pedigree.

00:05:15:26 - 00:05:38:21
Unknown
I mean. Yeah. And I was going to ask you, what brought you to Chicago from God's country of old, Idaho? Yeah. You know, I believe that's where you were. Yeah. Yeah, we were in the middle of Idaho. Not for the layin or. No, we were in, Haley Haley, which is, kind of right in the heart.

00:05:38:23 - 00:05:58:12
Unknown
Right in the center of the big part. Got it. Okay. Up in the panhandle. So a little past, like, maybe Missoula. Just that other side of the. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Very good. Yeah, yeah. I mean, in, you know, as a teenager wanting to be a singer songwriter, right, there was kind of nothing. There was no opportunities there, right?

00:05:58:17 - 00:06:17:39
Unknown
You know, I could have moved to Boise at the time. Boise was teeny tiny and nothing was really right. Farmers selling their stuff and the state capital. And so now it's a big deal. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. But at the time, this was like the middle 80s. There was there was nothing. So I had to go somewhere.

00:06:17:44 - 00:06:43:23
Unknown
So I kind of like I could go, I could go back to California where I had family. I could move to New York. I could have gone to Nashville. I thought about that. But I had a friend living here who was a mean that were working musician and, he was playing gigs all the time, making money, like making a living playing gigs.

00:06:43:23 - 00:07:10:43
Unknown
Okay. And the rent was affordable. So he was like, Chicago was great. So I thought, well, I'll give it a try. Sure. And then I came here and I never left. Yeah. Was that, So you got over here like in the late 80s then? Yes, I was looking at. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Very cool. And, Chicago is kind of an interesting town in the sense that it is a, the, again, a musical pedigree.

00:07:10:50 - 00:07:37:52
Unknown
Yeah. Going all the way back to WLS and, oh, you know, the, the, the barn dance, and it's, it's kind of an unsung town in that weird winds. So, yeah, in the 20s and 30s, it was like a big main hub, right? I guess Nashville and New York and L.A. took those over, but. So where did you, it is your the style of yours, your, singing, songwriting.

00:07:37:52 - 00:08:06:03
Unknown
Very Americana. And and, what do you think of that moniker? Americana? I do find that a frustrating. It's okay. I mean, it's in the times that I've been doing it, it's gone from roots Rock. Right? In the whole country was roots rock, right? Hey. And then, and then it became. Yeah, alternative country. In the 90s.

00:08:06:08 - 00:08:30:47
Unknown
And then I guess I was, I guess earlier than that in the 70s, it was folk rock, right, right. It's all it's all the same thing. They're just different names are the same thing. Same kind of thing, right? I agree, I mean, I think, you know, of the, folk rock way to describe things, Americana kind of is counterproductive, especially if you're a Canadian musician.

00:08:30:52 - 00:08:51:42
Unknown
You know, but it's an American North American, right? And, but it's just a it's an interesting genre. Do you associate yourself with the Americana music Association? Yeah, I'm a member. You're my. Yeah, yeah, I've been on and off and on a number myself. I always forget to re-up or whatever. Yeah. Have you done other conventions?

00:08:51:47 - 00:09:14:50
Unknown
I have not played. I've been now. Okay, I, what do you think? It's pretty cool. Nashville is again. Nashville is, like, built up. It's. Yeah, almost unrecognizable because there's a it's also I've been going to Nashville since the early 90s. And it it felt it was kind of a sleepy little town. Right now, this is bustling metropolis.

00:09:14:55 - 00:09:39:31
Unknown
So every time I go like, oh, right. Nashville's not like it used to be. No. It should be an easy drive down there to narrow down 65. Yeah, yeah, it just, it didn't seem such a daunting trip. We would go down, in the 90s, early 2000, we played, this tiny little club, that was, a British pub.

00:09:39:31 - 00:10:05:18
Unknown
Really? But it was like a watering hole for singer songwriters. Where, where did you like to to play? We played over the years with Dolly Parton. We played a place called The Slow Bar. We played at the, Is it the sutler? Is that a what is it like? It was of Nashville. We played at third and Lindsley, so we didn't really find one location that was like, this is the one.

00:10:05:18 - 00:10:28:27
Unknown
We kept trying different writers up and there were places that would that would have us. Right. Okay. I always like to ask, and, in the first portion of our podcast, tell us a little bit about your guitar. What kind of guitar is it? And, it looks like it is at a customer. Yeah. So, it's a fox.

00:10:28:31 - 00:10:51:06
Unknown
So here's the fox. Nice. Okay, so a woman named Cat Fox, and, I went to college in Boston, and, but Cat was actually from Hailey, Idaho. Oh. So that's how I knew her. But when I was in Boston, I was actually dating her sister Julie. So Julie was a year younger than me, and Cat was a couple of years older than me.

00:10:51:11 - 00:11:12:15
Unknown
So I was we went to stay with Cat and her place in western Massachusetts, and she had all these guitars. I had no idea she had all these guitars. I was like, well, what's it? Lindsay George said. I was like, how cool is that? And, a luthier audition. Somebody said, and I was playing them and they were beautiful.

00:11:12:15 - 00:11:32:13
Unknown
They sound great. They felt great. I was like, what would it take for you to make one for me? So, you know, at that point, $0. Yeah. So I was I think it took her about a year to make it. And a center, like a couple hundred dollars every, every time I had some. Right. And I just played bass.

00:11:32:14 - 00:11:57:18
Unknown
Paid it off over time. So it's it's birth date is November 9th, 1988. It's a fox. It's a pattern. And do you hear that? Is it amplified. Do you have a band? I've gone through several different hobbies. What kind of pick up do one right now is the, Kaiser okay. Right. Kaiser. So I just got okay. Okay okay okay okay okay.

00:11:57:30 - 00:12:19:05
Unknown
And it's just passive. It doesn't have. I've gone through. I had a fisherman in here forever. That was pretty good. Yeah. And then I got, bags one, which. I'm sorry, I hate it. Yeah, and that's interesting. I mean, bags usually has a pretty good reputation, but I work. But the tonality was it had a tonal change.

00:12:19:14 - 00:12:41:11
Unknown
I had one that had, like, had the microphone and the transducer and, I swear every single sound person when I, you know, like, really, I was like, sound like a no, no, turn that off. Right. And then and it was just like the bulky and I had this on off switch that I would hit by mistake. When I did adjust the volume.

00:12:41:16 - 00:13:00:59
Unknown
So, so basically I took it to I think I took it to Jeff Benji's do you know that guy? He's a luthier in town. That was a guitar repair guy. Okay. Who's here? And, I just, like, get this thing out of my guitar and put in what you recommend. Right. Okay, cool. And it's got a little bit of like, a, want to say, like a Gibson kind of headstock.

00:13:00:59 - 00:13:21:29
Unknown
Maybe a little bit maybe. I think this I think the specs, Martin ish. Okay. Like I now I this would be a situation where I have to run it, I heard because I don't really pay that much attention when people start talking guitars. Yeah, but it's mahogany. And I think she modeled it after a small Mark Martin.

00:13:21:32 - 00:13:43:27
Unknown
Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, that makes sense. And it's the tonality on it. It's really nice. Yeah, I love it. And it's as it's aged, it's gotten sweeter. Right? Right. Very deep red like that. Yeah, yeah. Not sweet. And, like the hammer. Some, like some guitars. The hands really get kind of brittle. Yeah. It doesn't seem to do that.

00:13:43:38 - 00:14:04:54
Unknown
Was this your main? Is that your main? Excellent. For all the years of playing since I've had it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's it's it's a wonderful thing. And it's nice to see, working musician using, his instrument as a tool, as I always like to say, rather than an instrument, you know, but, and so it's serving you.

00:14:04:54 - 00:14:26:42
Unknown
Well, what kind of strings do you like? I like I use the John Pierce strings. Okay. They currently are mediums which are a little, a little heavy, and the tone is a little better. Yeah. You know, I teach at the Old Town school and say I'm playing guitar, like, six hours a day, so I, I tend to put the light gauge on there just so that I'm aware of my hands.

00:14:26:47 - 00:14:54:52
Unknown
But then I put the mediums on as I think I was doing some recording and I wanted that just slightly. It's so subtle, but yeah, it's but that's a, it's it's a beautiful tone. And, it, it it will I'm sure it's going to translate well. And to our very, very expensive recording set up you got here I am with Steve Dawson, and we are talking about his life and times on this podcast of Strung Out.

00:14:54:52 - 00:15:13:23
Unknown
And will you play us another song and then we'll take a little break and keep going because, I'm sure a lot left to cover. That's. What do you want to play? Gosh, I don't know. I should do something off. The latest track for the Cute is that ghosts is like your latest one. Okay. Very good. I'm not saying maybe, I do that.

00:15:13:31 - 00:15:24:11
Unknown
I'll do the opening song. All right. What's it called? It's called time to Let some light in.

00:15:24:16 - 00:15:36:18
Unknown
Time that's inside it. I done right, and let's just go to the

00:15:37:26 - 00:16:14:22
Unknown
Better down there. Down four leaf clover. Right. This is across the river country state ways and means. You come into the world on your own. You see, this time it's like. A turnip, right where the past is gone. All. Bastard! All.

00:16:14:26 - 00:16:48:39
Unknown
With the politics and biology is, with stride and repartee. Freedom is another word. Is scared to death another. And I'm tired. Running out of breath. It's time. That's a lie. Just not right. And then the past is going to last. Is the.

00:16:48:44 - 00:16:58:55
Unknown
Thing. To do.

00:16:59:00 - 00:17:45:39
Unknown
Down in the pits. That leaves to right a person evil from the air we breathe. Right. Not fighting anymore. It's a choice. It's a choice. And the choice is clear to time. That's a lie. The darkness right here. The past is gone. I just do you know? Yeah. The past is gone. Is just me.

00:17:45:44 - 00:18:05:56
Unknown
Hello, this is Polly Chase presenting artwork by Martin McCormick. This painting, titled dude, features a mountain range that holds a special place in Marty's heart on the canvas, which measures 20 by 24. We see the Tetons rising in the hazy distance of

00:18:05:56 - 00:18:35:06
Unknown
Hello, this is Polly Chase. Presenting artwork by Martin McCormick. This painting, titled dude, features a mountain range that holds a special place in Marty's heart. On the canvas, which measures 20 by 24. We see the Tetons rising in the hazy distance of a view from an abandoned dude ranch just outside Jackson Hole, Wyoming, near Marty's parent's old place.

00:18:35:11 - 00:19:14:20
Unknown
The cool blues and violets of the background complement the buttery yellow foreground. These colors pass the viewer's attention back and forth along the horizontal plane, while the decaying model T sinks into that scrubby landscape, from which the majestic peaks punch upward along the vertical plane. It's a quiet yet very moving scene, both artistically and emotionally. It pulls the imagination into a human story waiting to be told, one witnessed by rock that is millions of years old.

00:19:14:24 - 00:19:22:30
Unknown
To explore this painting and more of Marty's artwork. Go to Martin mccormick.com.

00:19:22:30 - 00:19:41:46
Unknown
We're back. And, I want to go into your, musical history. With your various bands. Yeah. And, you got picked up by a label pretty quickly, right? I mean, it wasn't like Pravda or. What was the label that.

00:19:41:52 - 00:20:02:13
Unknown
Well, probably I'm on right now. You're on profit now. Okay? Look, I mean, as I go back to when I first got. Yeah. How did you get into that? Yeah, yeah, when I was first moved here, I started just playing, and there was this fiddle player named Tom Murray, and he and I were just playing like, places, teeny tiny little places.

00:20:02:18 - 00:20:25:10
Unknown
We played at the Charleston in Bucktown. Okay. And we play there once a month. We played at the Ginger man when it was just a little tiny bar, and we'd just just stand in the window and then sing and sing some of my songs. Bunch of covers. I had met Diane Christianson, who I'm married to and, we have this house together.

00:20:25:10 - 00:20:55:49
Unknown
But, at that point, we were just singing together, so we were a trio. We started calling ourselves some. The host. Oh, yeah. And then, we grew into a full band with a drummer, a bass player, electric guitar, the fiddle player, and left. And then we were more of the roots rock band. And then that band did get in the late 80s, early 90s, did get a lot of sort of, industry attention.

00:20:55:53 - 00:21:24:25
Unknown
And I got, I got a publishing deal with PolyGram Music. We were getting sniffed by PolyGram Records. We were getting seriously, seriously looked at by zoo, which was part of RCA. And we did a demo like session with them, but, none of that panned out, so as yet is. Yeah, it happens in this is right crazy business.

00:21:24:25 - 00:21:48:02
Unknown
Right? The thing with them was always, we don't know how to market. You was always the problem. Yeah. So it was like, are you country? Are you rock? Are you. Which is sort of funny because at that time, you know, no depression magazine was out and it was, you know, you could thumb through it and, you know, that was a little before that actually.

00:21:48:02 - 00:22:14:14
Unknown
So it had an okay, they didn't have like until I guess Uncle Tupelo was maybe the first band that yes, was like, oh, we could actually sell this stuff. Sure. It was a little before that. So even before Uncle Tupelo was around, you guys were. It's. That's interesting. Yeah. I mean, I would switch back. I our biggest challenge always was would, you know, we could tell you what we're not.

00:22:14:19 - 00:22:33:48
Unknown
Yeah. You know. Well and I liked I like so much music. So we were having R&B things. We were doing spacey things. We were doing all kinds of stuff. We had an incredible guitar player who was capable of just ripping through the tele or on so many really beautiful parts. We had the two singers, so they're like, who's the lead singer?

00:22:33:48 - 00:22:51:32
Unknown
It's like, well, we kind of both are, you know, lots of leads, like it's like Graham and Emmylou. But they'd be like, well, those record didn't sound easy. So there's some truth to that. But rather than sort of twisting their arm, it's just like, you know, we are what we are. Take it or leave it, right, right.

00:22:51:32 - 00:23:12:35
Unknown
And then I think the zoo eventually sort of offered this very tepid deal. And the lawyer we had at the time was like, this is just a terrible deal. It's just don't do it. Which I of course, in my mind I'm like, well, maybe we should have just done it. But or whatever, I don't know. I mean, you know, you you at least were brave enough to get on to a label.

00:23:12:40 - 00:23:34:18
Unknown
Yeah, we never really. You had wanted to do it because we heard of so many horror stories. All right. You know, they are being counted as all. Yeah. You know, there was no discussions about like, wow, what a great song. Yeah. You know, wow, you guys really have a chemistry here. And it it was kind of like I think we can sell this was that was that part of the push to bring you down to Nashville then?

00:23:34:18 - 00:23:53:14
Unknown
Was the idea like, hey, you know, I know what we're doing. We're swapping genres and you know, we're doing, you know, this folk rock music. If they're going to listen to us, I'm sure they'll listen to us in Nashville. Was it that kind of thing? Well, the guy from PolyGram music, the publishing guy from. He was from New York.

00:23:53:18 - 00:24:08:34
Unknown
And he he was great and he loved what I do. He loved it. And he said, we're going to send you to Nashville and you're gonna take them by storm. But I, he did send me down to Nashville to co-write with people. And I was just kind of like the weirdo. Yeah. You know what are you making fun of country.

00:24:08:34 - 00:24:27:07
Unknown
Well, I know a lot of country music that I love, country music I love, but I love Georgia Jones and I love Buck Owens. You know, she. It seems to me that Chicago was the right place for you to end up. And I think so, too, because. Yeah. This is, this is kind of an out of town in that way with John.

00:24:27:12 - 00:24:45:20
Unknown
It's not so much swap and genres in and out, but it's sort of a weird amalgamation. I agree that you get in this, this town and, it's it's and maybe it happens at other places, but not to the extent that I feel just from my time being in music here. Yeah, maybe in Austin would be the only.

00:24:45:31 - 00:25:03:29
Unknown
Yeah, I would think it would be. Maybe not so much anymore. Yeah. You know, that change to big time. But it's just like Los Angeles is all about business. Yeah, it's all about business and image. The times we've been there, it's just kind of like, you know, I, you know, I need to wash off. Yeah. After leaving this place, are you happy?

00:25:03:33 - 00:25:31:02
Unknown
Are you happy? You did the the label wrote to me? No. What do you feel? You know, is is there a place for independent artists like yourself? Working, may I? Word is working. Woman artist. Yeah. You know, with the label, or or is that are we now in an era that, you know, you could you could market yourself?

00:25:31:02 - 00:25:59:01
Unknown
Well, you certainly can. Yeah. I mean, the last two records that may have been unprofitable prior to that, Dolly Parton's Dolly Parton went to a handful of different little tiny labels. But the last two we just put out ourselves, you know, good sign. And then I put out a couple by myself, too. So I've, I've gone the fully indie route.

00:25:59:05 - 00:26:23:04
Unknown
And I've done the round with profit. I like having a partner. I mean, can at profit is a musician. He's a musician. He understands the whole deal. He's not, he's not trying to manipulate anything. He's just wants to be a partner and put out cool music. How cool is that? So for me, it's nice to have a partner, so I'm not doing it all by myself.

00:26:23:17 - 00:26:50:43
Unknown
Okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's it's, it's, it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. And. Well, I guess you get all the money, you know, whatever money there is coming in, which is pretty negligible as you as you probably know, I'm sure occasionally you get a little windfall. But for the most part, you know, you're hustling to sell every record.

00:26:50:47 - 00:27:20:13
Unknown
So it's, but it is, you know, if you sell stuff, you get, you get all of it rather than half of it. So yeah. So would you recommend that to let's just say the, the novices or, you know, people that are watching this saying I want to be that guy, you know, Steve Dawson, would you recommend that rope and or do you say it's just more of their serendipitous wherever the flow of life takes you, sort of thing, you know, where where is well, there's a changing so much.

00:27:20:13 - 00:27:50:30
Unknown
I mean, a lot of a lot of people. So I work, I have a little studio here where I record people. I songwriting classes at the Old Town School Grand. I do have a lot of people that make records and release them independently. There is a growing feeling of like, what's the point of this? Which there's always been that, but there's a because I think there's even like, should I even make a CD?

00:27:50:35 - 00:28:18:25
Unknown
I just write like what's the point? Who's even going to care? And if I'm releasing just a streaming, it doesn't feel there's not the satisfaction in, like, I made this thing and now it's up on the internet, right? It's not as satisfying. Is that because of our generation, or do I mean, you know, well, I guess most of the people I'm working with are would have been alive during heroin releases.

00:28:18:25 - 00:28:43:47
Unknown
Were things right where LPs and CDs and cassettes. So it could be it could be that it's, you know, longing for a time when you had a tangible object, but I don't I, I totally agree with you, though. Yeah. In, in fact, it's funny, I just had an email the other day from CD baby saying why you should be putting on a CD or an LP.

00:28:43:47 - 00:29:05:05
Unknown
And I thought, well, that's very interesting that, you know, they're there. Yeah. And I can understand why they wanted to sell CDs on a piece, but, you know, the there is something to be said about physically having this and saying, I made this, this is the representation of me at this point in my life, I think. So I find it very satisfying.

00:29:05:05 - 00:29:29:18
Unknown
And, if someone buys one at a show, they can take it home and have a thing that's like, oh, right, I bought this at that show. Whereas if you're just getting a download or not even a download, well then it's like, oh, check out your music on Spotify. Yeah, it just feels so unsatisfying. Well, it is, and I think it is unsatisfying.

00:29:29:18 - 00:29:55:58
Unknown
I feel bad for the generation that has followed us where that's the norm, because I think part of the ritual of live music is that exchange. I think. So, you know, having the CD, having the album and, and, you know, pouring your heart and soul into something. Yeah. And then, you know, and, you know, that was the gift of the recording business that, you know, thank you, Thomas Edison or whoever.

00:29:55:58 - 00:30:21:02
Unknown
I mean, it that, you know, everybody wonders. You know what? You know, some of the singers in the 1800s sounded like. Yeah. You know, we, we are so lucky to be in this. But that ritual that, American kind of ritual, I would say that American, thing of, you're in this bar, you're playing or club, and, you know, somebody has just had this moment with you.

00:30:21:07 - 00:30:53:32
Unknown
And like you said, you take him and you've got that moment, right. You know, grab your guitar. I would like, let's let's get a, another song out of you because you're you're very prolific. And, Yeah. Tell us, tell us what you're going to play, and then we'll we'll I'll keep asking, All right, let's do people,

00:30:53:36 - 00:31:07:54
Unknown
All right. This is an intense, All right, let's call it's called a mile south of town. Okay. This is about. This is from a memory, an actual thing that happened. But I put myself in the. So

00:31:14:14 - 00:31:32:28
Unknown
Ahead to make in the night again. It's been played week. It's been in bed. You.

00:31:32:33 - 00:31:43:53
Unknown
Rode too fast. You're in the dark again. I didn't mean see.

00:31:43:58 - 00:31:50:07
Unknown
That what to do?

00:31:50:12 - 00:32:14:22
Unknown
Now lying in the middle of the road. In the middle of the pitch black night. Breathing the last breaths together. Not on a sound, no, but it's around for miles and miles.

00:32:14:27 - 00:32:31:59
Unknown
And whispering happy little happiness in the name of me. In it to grow and smile. A mile south of town.

00:32:32:04 - 00:33:01:20
Unknown
It's really just, some way to live in southern of us. Three tours out of high school, serving out the same with me to forget. No. I run.

00:33:01:25 - 00:33:31:11
Unknown
It's how I ended up in the middle of the road, in the middle of a pitch black night. Face to face with this sad mom, dear. Still, let me stand back. The panic arises. She doesn't move. Her dad.

00:33:31:16 - 00:33:41:04
Unknown
Up!

00:33:48:53 - 00:34:06:04
Unknown
Then you do this. Be quiet. You know, in the car. We were. Down, there with you.

00:34:06:09 - 00:34:23:21
Unknown
Round some, like, some farmers to come drive you, you see my back in the ditch? Your food. And I'm getting there.

00:34:23:26 - 00:34:52:26
Unknown
This is lying in middle of the road. Still has a photograph. Skid marks in the blood and the brokenhearted. The whiskey still, from this bread.

00:34:57:07 - 00:35:09:46
Unknown
I.

00:35:09:51 - 00:35:24:36
Unknown
Didn't.

00:35:24:41 - 00:35:45:37
Unknown
Mini. Mini mini mini mini mini.

00:35:45:37 - 00:36:13:04
Unknown
And we're back. Okay. I love it. I love that song. A mile outside of town, right miles south of town. Miles south of town. I love a lot of the imagery. The happy child of, angry little man, you know, no, you know, is this, autobiographical or what is going on here?

00:36:13:19 - 00:36:35:53
Unknown
So when I was a teenager living in Idaho, we lived we lived between two towns on a there's a main highway that goes up through the valley. And then we lived off of the main road of that highway on the dirt road down in, in a different valley. But. So I would be if I was, you know, I want to go hang out with friends or whatever.

00:36:35:58 - 00:37:08:19
Unknown
I would go into Haley and then after dark I would drive home, you know, I was using my parents car, so this was I was definitely. You could drive and be 14, but I was driving at 14. I think, driving was probably 17 years old. Yeah. But it was real dark, and it was, you know, it was, you know, but he was around, and as I was driving home one night, there was something in the highway, and I slowed down, and there was a guy who had hit a deer.

00:37:08:24 - 00:37:26:05
Unknown
But he was riding his motorcycle and had hit a deer. So there was the guy, there was the motorcycle. There was the deer, and they were all just laying there. It was like very David Lynch, you know. Sure. Very spooky. And. Yeah. What? Hell, I got out. The guy was breathing, the deer was breathing, but it was bad.

00:37:26:05 - 00:37:50:23
Unknown
Yeah. And, the guy had clearly been drinking heavily. Sure. And here's the way memory work. I don't remember anything past that moment of seeing all that. Right. I have no recollection of what happened next. Yeah. So my guess is some adult came along and said, go home, kid. You know, we'll deal with this. Or maybe, you know, no cell phones.

00:37:50:23 - 00:38:11:04
Unknown
I don't know, maybe someone went to the house and called police. I had no idea what happened. Yeah, but that image is always stuck with me. That that scene. And I was like, I should try to make a song over that somehow. But I didn't know how because I didn't like me as the teenager is not interesting, right?

00:38:11:09 - 00:38:36:13
Unknown
The guy on the motorcycle is interesting. Yes. Deer is interesting. Yeah. And this is sort of like the fate or the, you know, the just like the chance of this guy, this poor guy driving, riding his motorcycle and then, hitting a deer. Jeez. But anyway, so it just dawned on me. Well, I could create a, I could create a story around this guy based on a lot of the people I knew growing up.

00:38:36:22 - 00:39:05:50
Unknown
Yeah, not that I know. So it's based on a kid I was friends with when I was in seventh grade, who his father was a sheep farmer who was kind of like, it's better cranky. Okay. And he was this like super happy weird, like super silly kid. And you know, I stay over at their place and they, you know, they lived in a trailer, a mobile home and, yeah.

00:39:05:55 - 00:39:36:04
Unknown
So it was kind of based on that guy and then just some other people I knew and then and, I created and move the story. Yeah. And we'll get into more of that on the next podcast. But, it's a very good, I mean, the imagery in the again, you referencing Cop woods and things like that, is that Western imagery and that idea, again, of pitch black, just the two of them.

00:39:36:04 - 00:40:06:38
Unknown
I love that, it's so real. And there's, you know, out there in, in the West, you know, that kind of the feeling of you're, you're alone, you know? Yeah. Yeah. When that kind of catastrophe, it's, I had my brother in law, my sister in great Falls, Montana, and, you know, he remember him coming across, know, telling the story of coming across an accident.

00:40:06:43 - 00:40:41:22
Unknown
Not like that, but it was, a car wreck, and these guys had been drinking. They're all dead and thrown out of the car, and he comes up and, the beer cans are out, and he said the wind blew the beer cans into this guy's hand, and then. Oh, oh. And I was like, you know, I thought, well, on that, that's that's just, you know, freaky imagery, but, but you, you took you took something that, every musician dreads.

00:40:41:27 - 00:41:17:52
Unknown
Every, Hey, who is coming home from a 2:00 show, you know, in the morning or whatever, but. And then the motorcycle on top of it and that, I mean, it's a classic, Americana folk kind of song. Really well done. With you living here in Chicago, are you an Idaho boy in Chicago, or you a Chicago in that is now drawing upon his past life experiences to to knit together these songs?

00:41:17:52 - 00:41:37:23
Unknown
You know, a soloist? Yeah. So what's happening? I'd say it's more the latter, I think. I feel like I'm in Chicago and I feel like I was born in San Diego, in California, and I lived there for my for until I go 12 or 13. So there is a thing like when we do go visit California, it's like, oh, this feels really this feels really right.

00:41:37:28 - 00:41:59:38
Unknown
So there is some part of me that is still Californian, but I've been here long enough that Chicago really feels like home. And so, like what you said, it's just like looking back on living in Idaho. I don't think I ever felt like I was an Idaho twin. Okay? I always felt like a visitor there. But that was a big chunk of your life.

00:41:59:42 - 00:42:23:25
Unknown
Would you say was the largest part or. No column? Because those years are so important, right? It was age 13 to 19. Okay. Which really isn't, but still. Yeah, it's it's a formative years for everything. And I do a lot of songs. I've had a lot of songs that look back on that time for sure. But what made you move around so much in your family?

00:42:23:25 - 00:42:44:45
Unknown
Was it, were you military or. No, it was just kind of the wanderlust in a sense. Or, you know, my parents had a really bad split. Okay. And my dad just wanted to get the hell out of California. Okay? And get to. And he'd always dreamed of living on a trout stream and, fisherman. So was kind of.

00:42:44:45 - 00:43:14:47
Unknown
He was just fulfilling his dreams and bringing us all bring you along for the ride. And then I, I went to college in Boston because, I wanted to study music. And at that time, so this was 83. There weren't very many college degrees based around this. Ha. Right. So you had to play classical guitar. No I just like and I've been studying jazz guitar, I've been and songwriting in Berkeley, in Boston.

00:43:14:47 - 00:43:41:02
Unknown
Was it one of the few places there and right. Miami, I think. How did you find that experience at Berkeley? Was that the right move? I mean, because you kind of, began to gel with a lot of aspiring musicians and, we all know there's no, you know, of course. Yeah, yeah. Unless you're going to have the Dawson method of, the kind of music it is.

00:43:41:02 - 00:44:01:10
Unknown
True. You, you know, it's very, very humbling. And if I went, like, I was thinking that it's like I was the best musician in my high school of, like, 80 people. Yeah, but I sort of like, I'm all like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna go there and. And then you're the minute you get there, you're like, oh, crap, these people are all the best musicians from their hometown.

00:44:01:10 - 00:44:26:34
Unknown
Yeah. And, I do think that helped me figure out, what I wanted to do. So I went, it's it's like, okay, I'm not a great jazz guitar player. It's I haven't sort of steeped my life in it. And that guy, there was this guy who had who went on to make jazz records and tour and be pretty famous.

00:44:26:39 - 00:44:51:19
Unknown
At 18, he was already. Yeah. So one of those prodigy is like, you know, if there's, you know, there's only a need for the job market of one good, great jazz guitar player. They're going to pick that guy, not me. Yeah. You know, or if there's a gig, they're going to pick that guy. So let's get to what's kept you alive I mean, you well, success.

00:44:51:31 - 00:45:22:46
Unknown
So then I was like, okay, what do I actually like to do? And when I was in Idaho, writing songs, writing songs was the thing that was the most fulfilling thing. So and I started like, as soon as I learned guitar, I almost immediately started making up songs just, you know, stupid songs. Right? So I think it dawned on me while I was at Berklee and having that experience of like, okay, I'm never going to be a great jazz guitar player is like, but wait a minute, I had a talk with myself.

00:45:22:47 - 00:45:41:33
Unknown
It's like, but you like writing songs? Yeah, you actually like to do. And so then I was like, okay, I'm going to be a songwriter with a with, you know, any kid or I have an older sister or an older sister, but a lot older than you for years. Okay, we've got this because get along or what? Did she go into any kind of art?

00:45:41:33 - 00:46:08:08
Unknown
So she's a teacher. She's okay. There's a there's that. And then I'm a teacher now. I think the my family has a lot of teachers. Okay. So it's like that's in funny late in life. Like finding teaching. It's been like, oh yeah, this feels right. You and I want to talk more about the old town. And and our next podcast, because that's going to play in just a perfectly with song crafting in that.

00:46:08:13 - 00:46:35:22
Unknown
And, I would love to have you play us out of this podcast with a song. I think my musicians work. Yeah. And and find those foggy lyrics, but, let me ask you this, though, before you play. So. Yeah. What in what is your definition of success? When Steve Dodson gets up and looks in the mirror in the morning, what's he coming?

00:46:35:28 - 00:47:04:09
Unknown
So that's such a that's such a big question because it changes and it's changed through the course of my life. Through a lot of my life. I was striving, striving, wanting to, you know, get famous and make, you know, be on a big label and all that stuff. But as I've gotten older, it's definitely compressed into I just want to, make good music.

00:47:04:14 - 00:47:09:54
Unknown
I want to play for some people, but the, the.

00:47:09:59 - 00:47:37:38
Unknown
Success as a songwriter is, you know, if I really hit the mark on a song that feels like success, if I am able to communicate that to an audience, that's a success. So it's like you just sort of take the take the wins today rather than regretting the messages, you know, like regretting like, well, I'm never going to be touring, you know, theaters all over the country, right?

00:47:37:42 - 00:47:59:48
Unknown
I shouldn't say never, but most likely not. Yeah. Yeah. But you come to terms with that to some degree. Yeah. And, I mean, you have a lot of things, you know, going you have you're, you're working a musician that has a house and a wife that's on a critic. Yeah, more than one level. And you're making it happen.

00:47:59:48 - 00:48:22:13
Unknown
Yeah. And there's so, you know, I always like to quote, Lloyd Maines who said, you know, you're respected by your peers, but you can walk into a, a Kmart and nobody would know who the hell you are. In some ways, that's pretty good. That's kind of the Journeyman Code, isn't it? You know, a friend of mine did say it's easier living the dream,

00:48:22:18 - 00:48:47:57
Unknown
Who is trying to remind myself that? Yeah, it's harder because there's nobody, you know, we're we're in a line of work where nobody says, hey, hey, man, you're living here. You're doing it, you know, or there's no there's no real kind of accolades, and, it can really work for somebody that's a hard gigging musician, you know, and teaching and that sort of thing.

00:48:48:12 - 00:49:11:39
Unknown
You know, there's no there's no Grammy for that. It's true, you know. Yeah. And so, so you have to kind of be around, you know. Attaboy. You know. So yeah, that's, you know. Yeah. But, well, give us give us another, tune and, we're we're going to continue on after this podcast, with another podcast, because we got a lot to talk about with Steve Dodson.

00:49:11:43 - 00:49:29:08
Unknown
But, what's this one called? This is called obsidian. This is an older song that, I still play at almost every show because the city of Obsidian and it's a type of obsidian. Okay, sure, sure. Which album? All the arrowheads. Exactly. Yes. Awesome.

00:49:36:18 - 00:49:43:08
Unknown
Do you do?

00:49:43:13 - 00:49:46:55
Unknown
You.

00:49:47:00 - 00:50:54:19
Unknown
You should know by now. Everything you say will be misinterpreted in. Turn around right now. Every step you take leads you further from the get to connect city. You soften your skin. Let the change be. Come on now. The soft clay of your heart is the place to start. Breaking.

00:50:54:24 - 00:51:28:58
Unknown
You should see yourself contorting into shapes to. And re-explain your self. We would all just laugh it. It wasn't such a shame this time. It's a matter of life and death. This. Come on up, city.

00:51:29:03 - 00:51:38:33
Unknown
To soften your skin. Let the change make.

00:51:38:38 - 00:51:58:52
Unknown
Come on, let the songs live. Your heart. Is the place to start. Pray the.

00:51:58:57 - 00:52:17:04
Unknown
I pray you can I.

00:52:17:09 - 00:52:27:58
Unknown
I come to love, love, love. See, I.

00:52:28:03 - 00:52:55:07
Unknown
Soften your skin. Let the chains begin. Love in my heart I love soft play I key up, that's the place to start. Let me pray.

00:52:55:12 - 00:53:17:07
Unknown
Let you can come on down I. Come on I love that I come on I.

00:53:17:12 - 00:53:24:05
Unknown
Come on.

00:53:24:05 - 00:53:33:31
Unknown
thanks for watching this and listening to this. And, we're going to be back with Steve Dawson on the next podcast of Strung Out. Bye bye for now.

00:53:33:31 - 00:53:51:14
Unknown
Thank you for listening. For more information about this show or a transcript, visit Martin mccormack.com while there. Sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung Out.

00:53:51:19 - 00:54:04:06
Unknown
It's so strong. Spain, we feel, makes no sense at all. The swan song wasn't part of the deal, was no good. All giving no choice. Giving us a.