Strung Out Episode 244: THE TRAVELS, TALES AND TRIUMPH OF NIKKI O'NEILL AND RICH LACKOWSKI

Nikki O'Neill is calling Chicago her sweet home.  Her bandmate and husband, Rich Lackowski grew up in Chicago but moved to Los Angeles to pursue a career in music.  There he met O'Neill, who despite her Irish last name, spent a good part of her life in Sweden.  Nikki ended up in Los Angeles, pursuing a goal of being a full-time musician.  Together, O'Neill (lead singer, songwriter) and Lackowski (percussionist, vocalist) joined with other musicians and had a band in Los Angeles, working the musical circuit, writing songs and enjoying the unique life that California offers.  Along the way, they fell in love and married.  Longing for some stability in their lives, they looked to find a musical scene where they could pursue their livelihoods, have a home and also enjoy some of their non-musical pursuits. (Both are avid adventurers, exploring different cultures for their music and cuisine.) 

It was O'Neill who decided that Chicago could be that place, and they moved to a beautiful home and were delighted to find out that in the Windy City they could live a life as independent musicians.   They now have a new band, a new record "Stories I Only Tell My Friends" and an expanded following of ardent Midwesterners.   It's a tale of travels, some trials and a triumph for this duo, who as a married couple have proven that dreams come true if we make them come true. 

www.Nikkioneill.com is the website.  Check out her bio, her music and catch a show.  

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:13:52
Unknown
Welcome to Strung Out, the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist. Your host is the artist, writer and musician Martin Lawrence McCormack. Now here's Marty.

00:00:13:52 - 00:00:43:41
Unknown
Hey, everybody, welcome to Strung Out. And we are at the home of Nicky O'Neill and Rich La Koski. I got that right. And, both, musicians and one fantastic thing. They're married. So they're in the music business, working together. And, first of all, I just want to say I'm glad you guys are here in Chicago.

00:00:43:43 - 00:01:02:37
Unknown
You're originally from Chicago. You're kind of a world traveler. From reading your bio, Sweden. And, but a lot of time spent in L.A., we're going to get into that book, which was pull out your guitar. And why don't you guys give us a little something?

00:01:17:07 - 00:01:34:16
Unknown
All y'all likes to drink all the shots from. So I'll settle down. We can start some up. Some. Some.

00:01:34:21 - 00:02:25:52
Unknown
To go along and stay in the house all day. Go. To Trey. Will his dance stick it so many calls and right now. To call travel is, to wrap road. So we'll wrap.

00:02:25:57 - 00:02:52:38
Unknown
My. You want to strangle my God gave you to. Get. You got to have some say. The take to the pretty. To the. All that you say you to me.

00:02:52:43 - 00:03:06:00
Unknown
To. To do this bus to South. To us. To wrap up I.

00:03:06:05 - 00:03:12:27
Unknown
The long.

00:03:12:32 - 00:03:18:18
Unknown
To wrap. I know.

00:03:18:22 - 00:03:23:54
Unknown
So drive.

00:03:23:59 - 00:03:37:39
Unknown
You up on. 20 cherry said I wanted to die. I.

00:03:37:44 - 00:04:11:25
Unknown
Was still. Going feel free to be home by you. Do you go. You. Oh, crap. Do. Oh! Oh, wait.

00:04:11:29 - 00:04:38:07
Unknown
A long. You do. Damn! Oh boo boo boo boo. By.

00:04:38:07 - 00:05:00:49
Unknown
guys, let's let's walk things big. Americana musicians always been to Americana music is that we insult to your listeners? Or did you know, I think the city I grew up with, mostly really eclectic, my mom was not a musician, but she loved music.

00:05:00:54 - 00:05:33:22
Unknown
So she she was young when she had me. She's 19. Back then, she was a big fan of Ella Green and Santana records, so I heard a lot of that. Then, you know, she remarried. We moved to Sweden, and, I heard the music that was popular there, and, and then she was Polish making this really, you know, she's Polish and, she and and, my grandmother, lived together with us.

00:05:33:22 - 00:05:56:45
Unknown
My grandmother didn't speak. Much besides Polish. So from what I heard, a lot of, like, old cabaret songs from Poland from the 60s. And, how cool is that? Rock bands in Poland from the 60s and, and them, they would have this, like, radio and they would check it, move the antenna this way. Every Saturday was a ritual.

00:05:56:47 - 00:06:21:04
Unknown
They like to really move the antenna and it would pick up a signal. There was a station in Warsaw, and then you'd hear the Chopin, and it was like the same song. Duh duh duh duh duh duh, no downtown, isn't it? So Saturday morning started. That is so cool. So what I what I'm hearing is eclectic, very eclectic, and that is so important.

00:06:21:04 - 00:06:41:35
Unknown
I think I am very eclectic. I just grew up loving everything. Yeah, almost everything with no judgment. And then of course, like in school, as a teenager, I got into a lot of hard rock because the guys in school, they took guitar lessons and they were in the break room and they're like, look what I got. I got the new kiss record.

00:06:41:40 - 00:07:08:47
Unknown
I got and stuff like that. And I thought, oh, guitar lessons and riffs and like, you plug it into an amp. That sounds like fun. That's great fun. So I was into that. But and then friends got popular and I was just swept away. Yeah, I love Prince made Prince the Guitar Man ship. Yes. Yeah. That's just, you know, whether it's acoustic or electric.

00:07:08:51 - 00:07:33:44
Unknown
Yeah. He he's great. Both. And I think there's the video that everybody should see is Prince's solo on While My Guitar Gently Weeps. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just. Yeah. You know, most people just, take a rock star and just throw it up in the air and watch it, like what happens? Yeah. You're just like, okay, you know, you you've you have, you know, done it for everyone.

00:07:33:49 - 00:08:00:08
Unknown
And I mean it, you know, it's just amazing. But it's great to have all those influences. Then what about you, Rich? Yeah. I mean I grew up with the hard rock kind of influence, but also like a bunch of top heavy and, jam and stuff. And fish and stuff like that. And and after meeting it really got into like the soul R&B kind of thing, okay, Aretha and Al Green and that kind of stuff.

00:08:00:13 - 00:08:23:23
Unknown
And so all that kind of just meshed together an entire around the singing. Yeah, I guess you could call it America is the kind of thing and things that came when we lived in L.A. there was a small but very tight and supportive Americana community, and then they were more into like the country and like some California country, like Bakersfield sound.

00:08:23:23 - 00:08:45:06
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, it's just great. Yeah. You know, and the Laurel Canyon. Surely huge and hugely into that. So and one off also me a little bit. And, and I see it as, as I got older I matured and appreciated more kinds of music. When I was young I, I was just like adrenaline. Yeah. I mean it looks like.

00:08:45:14 - 00:09:07:03
Unknown
Yeah. But you guys, before we go any further, I always like to ask a little bit about, the guitar is like the instrument of choice. Is is there is there a special relationship you have with this guitar? No. Yeah. This is it's pretty much my well, I, I do have a nylon string guitar. That's my very first guitar.

00:09:07:03 - 00:09:30:22
Unknown
But this is like the one that I write songs on. Okay. And it was I got it when I lived in New York. I love Sweden when I was 27 and I moved to New York City, and I was quite broke. I couldn't afford anything fancy. But also my hands are very small, so they're like I said, guitar students are 12 years old and they have bigger hands and big bands and.

00:09:30:27 - 00:09:51:35
Unknown
Yeah. So, so I was always looking for something that I would feel comfortable and, one day this was like in the doorway of a guitar shop on Bleecker Street, and, and it was a sort of open secret. You have, a standard kind of neck with and everything, but is it that, for you, for people listening?

00:09:51:42 - 00:10:17:18
Unknown
It's beautiful because it has inlay all, all around it. But what's who made this thing? It's, it's it's Blue Ridge. Okay. Sort are company based in San Francisco. They used to be okay, but I think they made their guitars in China. And, Yeah. Yeah. And so mostly it was affordable at the time was like 450 or something.

00:10:17:23 - 00:10:37:45
Unknown
Yeah. Nowadays I think they're like 1500. Yeah. Great sound, great tone coming out of it. I think, you know, and then Rich, Kahana choice or good, you know, it is just, this just ended up in my life one day and and whenever I need to do this kind of acoustic thing, it's like a drum set, a box that's a chair and all in one kind of music.

00:10:37:50 - 00:10:59:19
Unknown
Yeah. I've sometimes persuaded I like to try to, like, get them to get the foot. All the jingles. Yeah, yeah, and stuff like that. I, maybe I'll do it. Coming from, you know, a dual myself, for the most part, switchback works as a duo, and, we're always looking for a minimalist. Yeah, I think it's.

00:10:59:19 - 00:11:27:44
Unknown
It's a wonderful song. The songs can't survive in just this type of format that songs do have work. Yeah, I think that's a good point. You know, some and it's, we'll have to get into that even more in the next podcast. But the danger of, like, recording. Yeah, is that you're like a kid in a candy store, and then you got your producer and the producer says, oh, you know, I'm hearing violins, but, yeah, we've definitely Terry's experiences for sure.

00:11:27:56 - 00:11:57:22
Unknown
Yeah, the pitfalls of what not to do creatively. One thing is, you guys, you're from Chicago. You're from. You are New York by way of Sweden. Why? Like, I mean, what was that? Is is it just the siren song of. Hey, every band and musician I know at some point. Yeah. Goes out to LA and and makes it happen.

00:11:57:22 - 00:12:18:10
Unknown
Was it that kind of thing that guess let's. Yeah, just sort of, Yeah, I mean, I, I was born and raised here in Chicago. Yeah. The, I think it was the cold winters and my whole life spending in Chicago and, a friend of mine that I was in a band with for many years, Christmas. When I moved out to L.A., I would visit, I'd spend a month on this couch.

00:12:18:10 - 00:12:38:55
Unknown
We played music, around town and stuff, and. And that happened in November. And it happened again in February. And I flew home to a, snowstorm. The plane couldn't even land. The marquee then was like, no, yeah, we actually can't land there again, like one run away. And I was like, and I was on the beach this morning looking up at the palm trees.

00:12:39:00 - 00:13:00:09
Unknown
And so I just kind of had it stuck in my head, like, I just, I want to get to L.A., I want to be by the ocean. I want to be under a palm tree. And, okay, I did it for about 18 years there. 18 years in LA. Yeah. And you you came over there? Yeah. So I yeah, I was born in L.A., but then there's like this.

00:13:00:18 - 00:13:25:49
Unknown
Yeah, 20 years in Sweden, right? I went to New York because I thought New York was like, what attracted me then? But then what happened was I was invited to the Nam show. Was that okay? For those who don't know, I was like, music instrument trade show, right? Outside of L.A. and, and I'm not rich, and it's not the most romantic setting.

00:13:25:54 - 00:13:55:36
Unknown
Nam is a carnival. It's like Slovenia. Yeah, yeah, it's Carrick, it's the same. It's a total the same is very large and very loud. But we met there and we had like a long distance relationship, you know, in the, in New York we visited each other a few times, but like, yeah. Of phone calls. Yeah. Is that so you, you would encourage shared obviously to come back home really since that was where you were born.

00:13:55:36 - 00:14:13:17
Unknown
No, I think it was it just kind of happened like okay, we were trying to visit each other, but neither of us having any money. So it was really difficult to fly to New York, to fly to L.A.. Yeah, we did it. We managed to do it. And then one day, six months since our relationship, he's like, let's go.

00:14:13:17 - 00:14:38:00
Unknown
And and we're one way ticket. And she had sat me home with her Telecaster. Yeah. Oh that's like a hostage taking I don't know I didn't this that because I see that guitar. Oh my God, that's so funny. I must do that later. So yeah. Check these boxes from New York to L.A. Like it's a you can scrounge up enough money to live ship one more box.

00:14:38:06 - 00:14:57:44
Unknown
Yeah. Amazingly enough, because it was, like, really tough to get work. I trying to get guitar students attempt jobs. As soon as I got that ticket to L.A., suddenly there were, like, temp jobs galore. And I had just enough money every week to interest in a box with some stuff. So a little it's a, you know, you're it's work.

00:14:57:44 - 00:15:18:06
Unknown
And when you know you're on the right path, I guess, you know, when things come up like that. And that was 19 years ago. So were you in music at this point, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So you're drumming and. Yeah, just playing since I was ten. Okay. I've been in bands since I was around that age, really. So you hit up this romance going on, which is cool.

00:15:18:06 - 00:15:38:56
Unknown
You're slowly moving in. I think my 20s lived with that longer than I have, that I like that. I think that's a very, trusting gesture. I think, you know, I doubt anybody there's a musician, you know, would you would say, oh, my God, she gave she gave him her telling. That's like, you know, but only one that.

00:15:38:56 - 00:16:00:27
Unknown
Okay. It's hard. Yeah. Big deal. Well, when was it then that you were good? You guys were like, hey, you know, this is getting serious. We better form a band. Right from the start. We wanted to visit, so I was a little on the recording set up, and. Yeah, was it? Yeah. I so look at sticking it. Celebrating.

00:16:00:36 - 00:16:25:05
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah, we started doing that. And I think, I've always been like a education geek. I, I teach, but I love taking lessons. So me and at UCLA there was a class in music production and the guy, he brought guests every week and one of them the guests was Dakota Romero who was the music director for Stevie Wonder.

00:16:25:05 - 00:16:56:37
Unknown
And also at the time. And he was like this multi interest instrumentalist from Nigeria and how he writes music with everybody's like, well to go into it, he's like, yeah, on everything. But I always knew that a good song needs a really good arrangement. Right. And I can't play anything else besides guitar. So, I didn't know, you know, I wanted to get a band and get out performing and just make something happen, right?

00:16:56:47 - 00:17:19:15
Unknown
So I asked Jocko if he could help me, like, arrange, like a demo. Was a couple of my songs, and so nice. And I insisted that real drums have to be. Yeah. Harmonics, of course. So. And that's one of the advantages of L.A.. Yeah. I mean, yeah, listen, it really great. Everybody is. Yeah. There's a lot of, you know, great players and producers and.

00:17:19:15 - 00:17:40:19
Unknown
Yeah, and people wear multiple hats at like not just great realistic multi-instrumentalist. They can also run a studio and and so that's yeah, that's kind of what happens. So yeah. So this is and how many years then were you guys together in L.A then. Was it I mean, you were there for like 18 or something like that.

00:17:40:24 - 00:18:05:33
Unknown
So this is like wound up okay with the picture. Well, yeah. I mean, yeah, it's pretty much right away. Right away. But. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I do into them. Yeah, I think I got to L.A just a few years before you. Yeah. So at least time. So, you know, I'm making, there's something very serious about not only getting married, but also both staying the course in the music business.

00:18:05:47 - 00:18:32:46
Unknown
I mean, that's, you know, usually if you're working with somebody or something like that, you know, usually one, one partner says, okay, I better, you know, knuckle down. Yeah. But was that something that you guys discussed? Did you just say, we're going to make this happen regardless? And then did the marriage proposal come after that, or was it the sort of thing like, hey, let's get married.

00:18:32:46 - 00:18:51:40
Unknown
And while we're at it, you will keep this band going and just see where it goes. For me, music's always been part of the game, part of the yeah, part of life. And so it I don't feel balanced unless, I have some music and then, you know, I'd probably be a little more like into the stability kind of thing.

00:18:51:40 - 00:19:13:56
Unknown
And, you know, there's less money you have to do your DNA to make less than for that. Yeah, that's true because I know it's true. And I'm the one who's, like, has taken crazy chances. Like, I'm going to leave Sweden with barely any money and go to New York City. I got to tell the Jews, I realized that I could work in in the music business in a different area.

00:19:14:01 - 00:19:35:59
Unknown
So I actually worked it out for music, and I worked with a bunch of authors and wow and stuff. So the whole music education thing, which is really important to me. And then playing bass, I was playing bass with people from at the time, you know, and I can so like those, those two worlds kind of I was like, oh, these can all be one world, because all the people I was working with were also doing the same thing.

00:19:36:03 - 00:19:57:20
Unknown
All music. It's it's to what? Who proposed to who? Well, I propose to you, but I think you were. You were ready for it. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. That's so cool. I mean, it's just cool that we just. You just fell in love and use it and formed a band. And I just think it's neat. Yeah. You know, we just.

00:19:57:24 - 00:20:33:08
Unknown
We just did in that there was never any discussion that that or maybe because the whole music thing is just going very organically. Right. And slowly. So there was never a oh, let's look at contracts and oh, tour is coming up, what's gonna happen? And it wasn't those kind of situations that might have cited. Yeah. And and yeah, anything that would maybe cause tension with other people, with the couples who have done this, it hasn't really happened to us.

00:20:33:13 - 00:21:02:57
Unknown
So. And is that do you think it's, the mutual, commitment to the muse? Yes. Basically. Oh, man. It's. Yeah, I think I understand. Yeah. Each other, you know, that's that's not a it's not a mystery to one of us. Yeah. Cool. We we we have to like if you ignore it for too long, then, yeah, I get miserable and and we understand this balance thing.

00:21:03:02 - 00:21:45:01
Unknown
Good. Yeah. Right. I know we're Libras I don't know. Yeah. Oh, I don't believe so much in astrology. Yeah, I haven't, I haven't done anything really yet with the podcast about, you know, the zodiac signs music. But but like, it might be a good angle balancing like that. Yeah. So yeah, you real quickly into it if something goes off balance or, you know, sometimes when you release an album, it can be very, very intense with like press and publicity and, and it gobbles up your life and, you know, you have to find time for each other and not just talk about, like, yeah, well, let's let's have you guys do the other song.

00:21:45:12 - 00:22:08:24
Unknown
Yeah. And, I'm going to even step away just, so I can when I edit this all out. Okay? More of you guys and flesh of my knees. For Nicki O'Neil and Rich mikulski, and, do do go by the Nicky O'Neill band or what? What do you like to use? So far? We do what I'm always thinking.

00:22:08:24 - 00:22:31:14
Unknown
Damn, I wish we had, like, a Nicky O'Neill. And, But whenever I think of something, that name is always taken. So I'm still waiting for, like, the right we to do a whole show about the the the trouble of picking the name. It's, you know, just like fabulous names that seem so obvious. Like, how did not somebody take them long ago?

00:22:31:14 - 00:22:53:16
Unknown
The Heartbreakers. Yeah. Pollution. But, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Nicky O'Neill rolls off the tongue quite nicely. So I was like, oh, you know, she. One would think early on that sticks in your your brain. And what's your name again. That's good. Yeah. Yes. Original. What's the next song you'd like to do? You know, I think I just noticed since we just talked about we can do I just.

00:22:53:16 - 00:23:21:23
Unknown
Oh, sure. Oh. Is there a background to this or. Yeah, it's basically, I mean, both of us, we were when we moved here to Chicago, and after the pandemic, there had been a little break in writing because of the moving and stuff. And, to get back into, like, writing mode and creating an album. We signed up for Steve Dawson's songwriting workshop.

00:23:21:28 - 00:23:48:35
Unknown
Yes. And so these hours as these prompts and you have to write a complete song every week and play for the group and, he said, I want you all to write a really happy song. We are the only people in the class beside happy were tortured. Yeah, well, I briefly talked to Steve about that. I said, it's really hard to write a good, happy song.

00:23:48:37 - 00:24:13:25
Unknown
Yeah. Paul McCartney was the only guy that kind of. But even though, you know, half of this felt this was kind of sappy. But to write a good, happy song is a challenge because we have, tend to. But you did it. He and Stevie Wonder. Yes. Stevie Wonder's another one that could even better than McCartney. I think Stevie Wonder just, naturally, kind of, just with his melodies.

00:24:13:29 - 00:24:33:18
Unknown
Yeah, that was very pop, very positive. You know, everything is uplifting with, Stevie Wonder. I can't really off the top of my head. Think of any song that's like, oh, there's a depressing Stevie Wonder song. Depressing. Then Stevie Wonder don't go together. Maybe there's depth to it. Yeah, I'll just say quickly. It's like Stevie Wonder, I'm sure.

00:24:33:18 - 00:24:59:58
Unknown
Like underneath that uplifting. There's, you know what your experience should be like American it absolutely. There's like. Yeah. So like Sly Stone or somebody when it's uplifting and there's dance. Well it's it's it's not just like yeah, it's it's not Pollyannaish. Yeah. You're right that there is a depth and maybe deliberately choosing to go for uplifting. Yeah. Has something to do with it.

00:24:59:58 - 00:25:20:13
Unknown
You know. And that's something we would have to talk to him about. I would love to like you know, that's. I just think that's that's fascinating. You brought up that point. So, Steve Dawson had you guys write this song in. It's called. I just knew I just knew. All right, we're gonna have Nikki and Rich play this right now.

00:25:20:16 - 00:25:27:07
Unknown
You're on strung out. And when we come back, we're going to talk a little more about this ending up in Chicago. All right,

00:25:27:37 - 00:25:45:53
Unknown
Take.

00:25:45:58 - 00:25:57:36
Unknown
Some time. Right. I'm dancing girls. Come on. You know.

00:25:57:41 - 00:26:17:29
Unknown
Who's lost his name? Some time when you come on, I. I'm with you, man. I just do. What I do, do we go through.

00:26:17:34 - 00:26:32:49
Unknown
Baby, all you do, you do, I do. You do you.

00:26:32:54 - 00:26:39:45
Unknown
You.

00:26:39:50 - 00:27:23:01
Unknown
When I do give us mouth to now me box to me. They call me me baby I got to run to turn from dark to light. You see me back to you. See you know you, you I do. You get through. Hey you get to get away I like you to just like you, baby I do, I do.

00:27:23:06 - 00:27:28:23
Unknown
You you you do.

00:27:28:27 - 00:27:58:25
Unknown
Me you do, I. You do. You you do. Me do you? What do you do? You tell me. You go through. You, you, me. You.

00:27:58:30 - 00:28:20:16
Unknown
You you I. Do you do you do you do. You. Good. Do.

00:28:20:21 - 00:28:23:07
Unknown
You.

00:28:23:12 - 00:28:33:18
Unknown
Do.

00:28:33:23 - 00:28:41:02
Unknown
You.

00:28:41:33 - 00:29:18:59
Unknown
Hello subscribers, and welcome to Inside Views of Mardi Fine Art, where people are talking about their collected works by artist Martin Al McCormick. Like this planar watercolor titled River Bower, Donegal, Ireland, recently purchased by Cindy Roby. Her trip to Ireland was such a gift. Even more so is the forever reminder of the trip we had to. Marty's painting was a Bower Donegal.

00:29:19:04 - 00:29:47:33
Unknown
It is a beautiful rendition of a path we actually had the pleasure of walking. Marty masterfully captured the light through the trees, the gentle breeze and the brilliance of the soft colored leaves. It truly embodies the peace and tranquility of Ireland. We all remember it always, along with the friendships made and the memories that this unforgettable painting inspires.

00:29:47:38 - 00:30:05:31
Unknown
Thank you for supporting Marty Fine Art, Cindy. Additional originals and prints and merchandise of all of Marty's art can be purchased at Martin mccormick.com.

00:30:05:31 - 00:30:25:48
Unknown
And I don't know if I caught that before the break, but you said defiantly happy, and I think that's it. That would be a great name for a song too. You know, it's funny because some of the those people have reviewed the album and some have said even the songs that are serious have like an upbeat sing.

00:30:25:48 - 00:30:47:58
Unknown
And one guy said, you know, I don't know if I can handle all the positive message or the other partners, but I'm a grumpy guy and maybe I need to know that life is like something. It's possible. If he only knew how much melancholy those songs are coming out of, it's, you know, music has always been therapeutic for me.

00:30:47:59 - 00:31:16:01
Unknown
And, yeah, it just, it reaches me to make me feel emotions when other things maybe don't. I'm very calm and detached. Music kind of, again, I think. I think, you know, we were talking about a little bit, you know, with, Stevie Wonder and, and, you know, nobody, I think walks around like, man, because, you know, I'm happy all the time, you know?

00:31:16:06 - 00:31:40:40
Unknown
Yeah, but but the challenge is, you know, as a songwriter, as an artist, I mean, we have an obligation to some degree, to try to lift people's spirits. At least that's what you would like to think. You know, the majority of singer songwriters, but that's a it's not an easy thing to craft a positive song, a good, positive song.

00:31:40:40 - 00:32:09:20
Unknown
You know, that last song just has a lot of great spirit to it. And it's uplifting melodically and everything else. It's like good ol, you know, American pop in a lot of ways. And I like that. I just think, wow, you know, that's, it's it's it's hard to pull those things off. You know, I think, you know, so kudos to to you, you know, and,

00:32:09:25 - 00:32:27:16
Unknown
It was very cute to see you guys looking at each other, too. I mean, I like that, you know? I mean, I think of all the great, you know, couples that have, you know, performed together in that and there's that, that kind of energy. People like seeing that as well. You know, it seems like that's it. Yeah.

00:32:27:16 - 00:32:47:05
Unknown
Because that we we open for Al and Joel. That's all. The old town school. For all your beautiful stages. Yeah. It's great to, to do that. But there were many people that came up to us and they said, oh, we looked over. You looked at each other and, Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because chemistry, whatever kind it is, it's.

00:32:47:07 - 00:33:12:17
Unknown
Yeah. Good chemistry. Yeah. It's supposed to be romance. It's so natural. We just walk in and really everything else just kind of. Also, we have to remind ourselves sometimes, like there's there's an audience for that. I think it's not just romantic chemistry. It's like happy to. Oh, this sounds good. Yeah, I could see it. Yeah. I mean, I guess that's what I'm, you know, there's a playfulness between the two of you guys that are like, you know.

00:33:12:17 - 00:33:26:08
Unknown
Yeah, that's that's enjoyable to see. And somebody observing you. I mean, that's people want that success. I guess they want that in their life too, you know. So to have that happen is really cool. I think,

00:33:26:08 - 00:33:48:54
Unknown
brought you back to Chicago that are for you your first time coming here? Well. Well, what was the decision behind that? I. I always liked coming to Chicago. I think I was drawn to the city, and, I always will love being in cities with their, you know, not homogenous population, but people from all over the world.

00:33:48:59 - 00:34:13:33
Unknown
I just, I like that, yeah. I liked coming here and visiting when we went to visit your family. Your parents, and, you know, as much as I love L.A., the nature of California, the road trips, the national parks, it's fantastic. For doing. You like being someplace else? It seems like my family's here.

00:34:13:33 - 00:34:40:51
Unknown
I, I wanted to be back with them. Right. But Nikki was the one that was like, you know, sitting under a palm tree, like, I'm like, this is hard to leave, right? I think that, and he's like, I, we need to change. We should do this. And and, you know, she was pretty cool to go through our laws and things factoring in like your parents were getting older, you know, the pandemic kind of refocused life a little bit.

00:34:40:51 - 00:35:09:13
Unknown
Sure did just kind of thought was what's important here. And right. And there was also the the economics. We always wanted to have a house. Rehearsal space. And sure you're rich can do is like woodwork and and stuff like that. And L.A. is just always out of reach whenever we like saved up and got and it was like, you know, and that's I mean, that's a real problem with California right now.

00:35:09:16 - 00:35:29:16
Unknown
I mean, it's just we, we did the cost of living for so long, and, I had rehearsal space. All we wanted to do, we had a rehearsal space. There's a directing, there's a metal band and a DJ, and I like both sides. I love it, and you're trying to, like, do any vocal practice, right? Like we don't care.

00:35:29:20 - 00:35:51:51
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Just wanted to combine that rent with the rent we're paying for our apartment and be able to rehearse inside of a place. Yeah, that's a pandemic. Kind of brought everything to a point where it was like, okay, by the time if we buy a condo or something, it's still going to be too tight and too small, and we can't have a rehearsal space.

00:35:52:03 - 00:36:14:45
Unknown
And by the time you could sell a condo, your parents are going to be in their mid 80s. And there was like a reality check. Oh yeah. Well, a lot of musicians, actors, lifers like yourselves. Yeah. I mean, those are the things you have to kind of, take into consideration that, other professions, you know, need a drummer.

00:36:14:45 - 00:36:40:46
Unknown
Oh my God. Yeah. Can I make noise in a car? Kind of car you drive? It's kind of like a drum set and probably a guitar and drums and speakers and. Yeah, well. And real considerations, you know, with your with your family being here and everything like that. That's nice. But, the, you know, Chicago, it does serve as a wonderful hub for touring, I think.

00:36:40:51 - 00:37:04:53
Unknown
I mean, everything is seems much easier, easier. Yeah. You've probably had experiences touring. Sure, sure. I was just, just unbanning, a couple weeks ago. I mean, I, you know, it's, 26 hour drive. I kind of trying to remember how long the a haul it is from here to get out to to, you know, to California.

00:37:04:53 - 00:37:31:53
Unknown
And we've done it, but, but so much easier to fly and, you know. Yeah. Any surprises? You know, you have a beautiful home. You know, you're in a you're in a real cool part of the Chicago area, and, and you're not too far from, you know, where I live in Rogers Park with, you know, the, the diversity.

00:37:32:02 - 00:37:56:27
Unknown
Yeah. That kind of cultural. Yeah. It's just, you know, but, you know, any. Do you feel like this is home for you, all of you guys, or is this, like, you know, it's just in another seven years? Are we going to hear that? You guys, you know. Yeah. I was worried that maybe I would have that kind of thing because, like, this eternal gypsy, that's the that I actually feel really at home here, I like it.

00:37:56:32 - 00:38:16:09
Unknown
Yeah. It's, it's I don't know resonates with my vibe when you're, when you're not playing guitar Nicky are you do you like to garden or is there some other kind of thing that you do that the world should know about? Well, we both have a saying, and we're we've done it for the last six years.

00:38:16:09 - 00:38:35:19
Unknown
We explored the, food and the music of the world in alphabetical order. All the worlds kind of just just to randomize it. We got a little bored after a while. Make sure there's nothing to do here. Like we're in Los Angeles for our stuff to do here. Yeah, we're doing the same things over and over again, right out of our right.

00:38:35:24 - 00:38:54:44
Unknown
Yeah. And this was just a way to like, you know, start out with the letter E. Afghanistan was the first country you ever had food from Afghanistan. I don't know what the music sounds like. It. Yeah. So we just started going up Wikipedia and YouTube and going to a restaurant that had that kind of stuff, or C and that's playing that type of music.

00:38:54:49 - 00:39:14:54
Unknown
It's good idea and it's wonderful, and it's like you're never bored because we get to this next country and we're in 20 countries and 20 countries, and it's taken a six years to to get that far. Have you done anything tonight? And write this down or. Yeah. Are you guys going to turn this into a book or something?

00:39:14:54 - 00:39:35:58
Unknown
Ask everyone. Well, I mean, that's a lot of effort, you old people. Yeah, I guess a submarine, you know, you know, I would be like, oh, man, how can I have my phone, a memorial? I just, you know, I, I do posts. My first the first question was following Nikki's Facebook page because it's still on there and.

00:39:35:59 - 00:39:56:14
Unknown
Yeah, and it happens very randomly. We just had like four months off because we were releasing an album. Yeah, that's what now we're now. We didn't really. Yeah, we did Malaysia down in the Maldives. Sometimes we bring friends and join us. Do you travel to these destinations or do you do? Yeah. But I mean, we've been this song.

00:39:56:19 - 00:40:25:39
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, I know not every destination is going to be welcoming, you know? Yeah. Maybe even less so. Now, wait, you know, if we can't get to Canada. Yeah, but but that being said, you know. Yeah. Now you're in a spot where you can. I mean, most, like, any cuisine or, and if you can't get the country per se because they don't have enough of, like population or a restaurant, you can always trip.

00:40:25:39 - 00:40:47:59
Unknown
There's the region. Yeah. And, and if it's totally impossible, we try to cook ourselves and then God knows how close we get to the authentic flavor. Probably not. But it's really fun doing the traveling. So if you, if you go, you know, I'm going to be putting you, Nikki's website in here, but also you can connect to your Facebook page through your website.

00:40:48:10 - 00:41:11:38
Unknown
Yeah, you could probably you could like do a friend request because it's my personal Facebook page. Okay. But, yeah. Oh, cool. How cool are we? You know, what am I doing here in, like, another year that you guys are doing concerts and, cookouts or something like that? Cuisine and cons I like, you know. Yeah. Which brings me to another thing.

00:41:11:39 - 00:41:31:28
Unknown
You getting your with the label. Yeah. No labels always. It's kind of like having that parent that kind of says, okay, what's the next album? I don't know what kind of relationship you have. Yeah. You know, with the label, but how is that going with touring with like that? The label is owned by a band all sharing in here.

00:41:31:28 - 00:42:03:30
Unknown
Creating another company plays music together. Yeah. And they're in Los Angeles. And there's about the it's grown now. It's about 23 or 25 artists, mostly from California, with some from Nashville, because they kind of do a lot of traveling back there. And, it it's very open. It's almost like an artist collective. I would say. Okay. So like, you record what you want, but, yeah, you know, you got to get a publicist, do you fund that kind of stuff?

00:42:03:30 - 00:42:27:47
Unknown
And, and. Yeah. So, so you carry some money, so, you know, you get your publicist, you, what about, like, production of, the albums and stuff like that? No, we financed it ourselves, but luckily enough, this year. And this was thanks to an artist here in Chicago. Now, he actually she told us about the Illinois Arts Council.

00:42:27:51 - 00:43:05:38
Unknown
I know that they have grants. Wow. L.A. they would never give out a rock band or, you know, grants. But, yeah, I checked it out and, I missed the time window by two days, and, we wait until the next year, and and we got a grant, and it was also incredibly helpful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the recording in Illinois, we're lucky to be in Illinois with, right now, the current administration, because the arts so are bad, you know, and, hopefully you can stay that way.

00:43:05:40 - 00:43:34:21
Unknown
Yeah. With your tour. Yeah. We're back. I just like to go. Well, we're it's still pretty new to Chicago, so we're we're still, working into it. I'm looking into doing dates in the Midwest in the weekends or so. Right. That's probably more. We'll start. I know there's been requests in Europe because there's been a lot of good, like, reviews.

00:43:34:21 - 00:43:59:48
Unknown
The radio play people in Sweden and Spain who said, when are you gonna come? Will Sweden? I, you would go for, you know, I mean, that's that's almost a no brainer. You're going to have to go back to Sweden. There's a connection there. But they also really like it. And they're not very easily impressed. So I don't know I mean like I can read their reviews so I know and but it's been really nice.

00:43:59:48 - 00:44:35:53
Unknown
So they should be pretty positive and sweet. Have a good take on American music. Sometimes even better than Americans. As far as the appreciation of the styles, I think, and, the probably one of the best bluegrass bands ever saw was a Swedish bluegrass band. Okay. Oh, yeah, that's true musicians. Yeah, I know, but Europe as a whole, I think, politics aside and everything like that, there's just a little more of, an enjoyment of live music, period.

00:44:35:58 - 00:45:01:23
Unknown
And the social aspect of going out to see a live show. Yeah, yeah. So there's they have, an advantage over us. But with your freedom as a couple and that. Do you, do you find, like, hey, you know, for us, success is picking and choosing where we want to play, when we want to play and how we want to play it a little bit.

00:45:01:23 - 00:45:26:57
Unknown
I would say so because I, I tried to get into the playing full time, which would mean, you know, playing a lot of covers, playing in restaurants, doing busking, doing weddings. And I, I've done that. And we still play like a lot of cover material with the full band because, it's just trying to get get the guys employment, sharing their full time.

00:45:27:02 - 00:45:53:38
Unknown
And so, you know, three hour show, you got to play covers, but, I'm trying to, I don't know, but we still play the covers that we. Yeah, that move us. And, you know, it. Yeah. Yeah. We don't see the dog or anything. Sure. And I did tributes and things like that. And after a few shows and I was just like, this is not what I'm supposed to do with these life.

00:45:53:42 - 00:46:17:57
Unknown
And maybe that's idealistic, but, I felt like, you know what? I don't want to end up being burnt out or disliking music or, there's always this balance kind of thing for me. I, I've been a music teacher for many years, taught guitar lessons and, and things like that. And, and there's a balance there too. So like, I love doing it.

00:46:17:57 - 00:46:42:10
Unknown
I love helping people like that. See, that's in them to help nurture it. But if you do it five nights a week, you can get burnt out or, I don't know, I'm just I have this need of, like, balance all. And I think that, this is great for people to hear, especially people wanting to, to don't really understand the journeyman musician world that's out there.

00:46:42:10 - 00:47:04:34
Unknown
There's so many of us as opposed to, you know, the top, you know, 1%, which is, a whole other thing. But I think one of the greatest signs of success, success is like, you know, calling, you know, shout outs, right? Yeah. Now, you mentioned you have your full time band as well. So you have band mates.

00:47:04:39 - 00:47:25:37
Unknown
Yes. On top of this that you are. Yeah. Supporting. Yeah. Yeah. Well we can but only support themselves. They like to go and play solo shows and play well. It's still we always been band people. We, we've done hierarchy thing. We've got, you know, time gigs and stuff like that. But our band can't, can't, we can't. So we hire musicians and they're great.

00:47:25:37 - 00:47:44:21
Unknown
They're awesome, but sure. But there's something about being in a band and, like, working it out together and writing together and doing the thing. Yeah, doing the arrangements together and just kind of getting your own battle scars out there, like, you know, just going through it together. Yeah, I like I like what you said because I think that it's true.

00:47:44:22 - 00:48:14:18
Unknown
So true. But it is a balance, like finding, you know, if you, are doing the jobs in order to play what you want to like, where you want, when you want and stuff. So the day jobs thing, I mean, it's taken me a lot of experimentation to find stuff that would bring me or stuff where you're like, I, you know, worked in the music business, like publishing a lot of like bitter, burnt out musicians.

00:48:14:18 - 00:48:40:51
Unknown
That was awesome to be around. Sure. Better be a teacher. And yeah. And on an. Absolutely. And for for me, but, I also I've done some freelance writing. I used to do it very actively and then, Yeah, I actually used to support myself doing that in New York until I interviewed Neil Young and we had great conversation about music, and I'm like, what the hell am I doing?

00:48:40:55 - 00:48:59:31
Unknown
I need to, like, be serious about making my own music. So. So is that done? So when you gave him his movie, was that the kind of the, the advice you do your own thing. And he didn't even say it. It was just kind of my, he, he. Yeah. Yeah. Because he is so creative and like always throws himself into the next creative creative project.

00:48:59:31 - 00:49:28:16
Unknown
He just like lives this creative vessel or like. Yeah. And so that made me think to, to be careful not to do too much work. That's on the business side or maybe also it depends who you work with. Yeah. Yeah. You know, people are bitter or toxic or so. Right. It's taking some experimentation and churn and chains.

00:49:28:21 - 00:49:52:34
Unknown
Are you coming to a point when both of your, you know, your marriage, your musical career, and you know, life's where you're like, you know, we're at a we know what it's like to tour. You know, what it's like to produce. We know what it's like to write songs. Yeah. And, you know, we can dispense this knowledge.

00:49:52:39 - 00:50:17:55
Unknown
Is is do you do you feel like you're kind of hitting the mentor stage of music? Because I think musicians, at some level, do you know, you know, that that where they feel like, you know, what's my legacy? Yeah. Well, I guess I guess I try, I try to do it as a teacher. Okay. As a guitar teacher at the Old Town school.

00:50:17:55 - 00:50:45:57
Unknown
So I teach people there every now and then. I've written articles. I wrote a book, guitar, about shows like Women's Road to Rock star, not necessarily just for women, but really company. They wanted that angle show. They was like, you know, help people if they want to like, you know, get into playing, but they're intimidated by the whole jargon, guitar jargon and pedals and all the gear stuff.

00:50:45:57 - 00:51:11:25
Unknown
Right? So I try to do something to encourage and kind of new written drum books. Yeah. Similar. I okay, about ten, music instruction books for, for drawing. So there they are is a legacy thing. I still feel like there's more to explore with this whole world of music. Each each album does feel like some kind of milestone of like, this is what we're able to.

00:51:11:25 - 00:51:35:45
Unknown
This is the we're able to plant like this. Yeah. And there's like, oh, okay, here's like touring experience or to hear, I think it's it's still growing. It might not be in massive leaps and bounds or, or whatever. I don't know. The industry defines as success. Well, you know, yeah, the industry has its definition of success and it's not necessarily our definition.

00:51:35:47 - 00:52:04:54
Unknown
Right. So why don't we, it's nice to experience that success every now and then. Yeah. Well, you know, it's it's, we are you allowed even to experience that success? I think that's kind of where the industry has gone, you know, over the last 40 or so years. It's just, that it's, become, you know, very much, a guarded.

00:52:04:58 - 00:52:30:10
Unknown
Yeah, area of, managing artists and even, you know, creating artists and, you know, so everything is fracturing or so. And when you have, agencies like gasket that I belong to or you, you know, when they're actively, like, calling places and saying, you know, you pay us, a license or we're going to shut your coffee house down.

00:52:30:15 - 00:52:54:46
Unknown
And, you know, that's the incubation pond for all these tadpoles. You know, where they're gonna become, you know, music. You know, that's a difficult thing for us. I think, as, you know, working musicians. But, I want you guys to do one more song, okay? And, and, and I have a couple thoughts that popped into my head.

00:52:54:51 - 00:53:17:07
Unknown
First is the question, what kind of woodworking are you doing? The world wants to know, what do you do? That my dad was always working on projects, okay. With wood and building and even, like, building houses and stuff. Oh, my kitchens, anything like that. But you've made some of the tables around the house. Little tables in a mansion, in the hallways, at the fantastic.

00:53:17:09 - 00:53:33:43
Unknown
One of the first things when we moved in here, my, my dad gave me all the tools, all the power tools that I had, that he had and used, and it's the only thing I ever used since I was like, big, and, we made a bench together. It's a front of home. Oh, how cool is that?

00:53:33:54 - 00:54:08:13
Unknown
You mean Nicky has now come to you and said she this guitar. Luthier. Luthier. And it's. So it's a guitar. So. I realized, yeah. You've done cutting board. Actually, Ron Dennis has asked us to to make some guitar bodies, and I wrote Ron as. Okay, sit down for that. Oh. And, yeah, we said you made him a cutting board and you the guitar, just like, oh, if you send me an actual guitar body, I put in that guy, and so Frankenstein it.

00:54:08:14 - 00:54:29:24
Unknown
Well, maybe. Maybe, it's funny how, you know, things move, you know, in your career, right? Yeah. The things inspire. Like, you were talking, asking about the cooking and the exploring countries. I think they all kind of, you know, you got to have something to write about, write songs about. So. Or something that stimulates your imagination on your thoughts.

00:54:29:24 - 00:54:57:30
Unknown
So. Or gets you out. Yeah. Okay. That's very much. Yeah. Important. Yeah. Well, I pick a song and I want to thank you guys. We're going to carry on with the next interview, where we're going to dive a little more into the creative elements of your songwriting. And, you know, you guys get to play a Neil Young to people who are out there and wondering, how can they make this happen?

00:54:57:34 - 00:55:24:37
Unknown
And, what a wonderful thing to have you guys here in Chicago, because, Chicago needs this kind of positive energy. So, and, I think you, you also have something to teach, you know, how to how to make it in music, as a married couple because, you know, financially in we're not in the most, lucrative business.

00:55:24:42 - 00:55:49:14
Unknown
I hate to break it to you folks. But, but that's it. You know, it's a little difficult to. Right, you know, to to to try to, to carve out a living. But you guys, literally are carving out a living, or we're carving out a life. Yeah. I'm carving out a life I love. So even better, because it is really creating a life for yourself that you and I was going to say.

00:55:49:14 - 00:56:11:58
Unknown
What's your definition of success? But it sounds to me like you just kind of gave me, you know, carving out a life for yourselves. You know, I always I had friends who would say they were really good writers and they had this like book project they were working on and like, well, I'm going to wait until I, I'm going to write this log cabin and I'm going to like, go in there and I'm going to write.

00:56:12:03 - 00:56:36:15
Unknown
And that way, you know, that's not how it works. And, you can have day jobs. I mean, I will always love it, right? Rather be touring and stuff. Sure. But, you know, if it's something that feels meaningful, it's not dreaming. You can absolutely have a very active life in music. Career like songwriting is at the forefront. There are gigs and your, you know, you make it work, community.

00:56:36:19 - 00:56:59:04
Unknown
You make it work. Yeah, yeah. I think once you make the choice to be a musician, I always joke it's like becoming a priest because you, you end up taking a vow of, you poverty, chastity and obedience and, Oh, strange how that all plays out with the road and everything else, but, you know, it is a car, right?

00:56:59:10 - 00:57:22:30
Unknown
It's a calling and, you know, it's. Yeah. I can't turn off the tap. I mean, that's that's the thing. It's it doesn't make you feel conscious. It's just. Yeah. Okay. It's just. Let's do it. I don't think anybody who knows us, whether they do music or not, I, I think everybody pretty much sees us as, oh, yeah, this is two musicians who are just always, always playing and performing and nothing can be better, you know?

00:57:22:38 - 00:57:41:57
Unknown
Yeah. Well, Nicky O'Neill, Richard Koski, they're going to play us out for this podcast. And I want to thank you guys for, tuning in and as always, we are going to keep things rolling, but let's listen to these two fine musicians. And the next program, we'll we're going to get a little creative. Okay. So

00:57:45:44 - 00:57:53:20
Unknown
Good.

00:57:53:25 - 00:58:46:12
Unknown
So go team. And we load up. What, you gonna change direction? You come up your way, you took a chance. Good enough. Yo flexion. Now, the mom made up your face up pat. And then truck. You stand tall, but we go. Let us, And don't get down the pole. We ran through the cell. Pray with her from me.

00:58:46:12 - 00:59:29:49
Unknown
And you. Don't let this jam pass you by. We be inspired. We're walking so this mountain just let you see some luck. You found favor in your home. Let me. What? I think just.

00:59:29:54 - 00:59:38:39
Unknown
Don't.

00:59:38:44 - 01:00:35:50
Unknown
Don't get down about what we been through. Sell. Great. From me and you. And don't let this chance pass you by. Us and I repay you. I. Sun walk in the sun land. Now just seeing some love. You found favor. And don't take it. Live like you just be a rock. You just be me. Just

01:00:35:55 - 01:00:47:15
Unknown
Live. Just be me. Just be me. God.

01:00:47:20 - 01:00:58:28
Unknown
Be like you. Just be me. Just to go.

01:00:58:33 - 01:01:13:00
Unknown
Live. Just be. Live like you. Just be God.

01:01:13:00 - 01:01:30:43
Unknown
Thank you for listening. For more information about this show or a transcript, visit Martin mccormack.com while there. Sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung Out.

01:01:30:48 - 01:01:43:35
Unknown
It's so strong. Spain, we feel, makes no sense at all. The swan song wasn't part of the deal, was no good. All giving no choice. Giving us a.