Strung Out Episode 246: CALIFORNIA SON-THE MUSIC OF TED RUSSELL KAMP

You can tell a lot about Ted Russell Kamp from his grin.  When he is playing a song or talking about touring, he lights up with a deep joy.  Being an independent artist is not easy calling.  You wear many hats, slog many miles, and suffer setbacks from missing strings to club cancellations.  But those who can show they can take licks and deliver some guitar licks all the same with a sense of fun are the ones who make it.  TRK has 17 albums out and his latest, California Son celebrates not only the free spirit that is California, but also is an anthem of love for his craft of songwriting and his love of those who have supported him through the years.  We get to hear Ted talk about how he started and where he has been in the business.  And we get a wonderful visit to his studio, where he plays us some of his favorite songs, including one with only a bass guitar for accompaniment.  His website is www.tedrussellkamp.com.

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:14:44
Unknown
Welcome to Strung Out, the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist. Your host is the artist, writer and musician Martin Lawrence McCormack. Now here's Marty.

00:00:14:44 - 00:00:43:48
Unknown
Hey, everybody. Welcome to Strung Out. And I'm with Ted Russell Camp and two things. First of all, you are the first out of Chicago musician that I'm interviewing. Honored to be here. Yeah. Great. And, Ted is based out of L.A., and he's in that wonderful group that that wonderful brotherhood and sisterhood of bass players.

00:00:43:53 - 00:01:09:00
Unknown
As your primary instrument as a fellow bass player. I love it. And, this first, episode is, you folks know we we'd like to find out just everything about Ted. Very complex person. You have done a hell of a lot of stuff. Originally from New York. You ended up in L.A.. Yeah. You made that decision to go there?

00:01:09:01 - 00:01:32:39
Unknown
I'm assuming, yes, I did, and, let's talk a little bit about that. So how much? I mean, I think, if I read it right, 2001, you went out to New York. I mean, to L.A. So you spent some time out east growing up, right? Oh, yeah. So it was home to me. I grew up in Westchester County suburbs just north of New York City.

00:01:32:44 - 00:02:00:14
Unknown
And flown into that airport. Yes. Yeah. The Westchester airport. Totally. So, it was great to grow up. Like, I started playing trumpet in the fourth grade. And my mom loved museums and Broadway. Okay. And my dad was kind of a jazz fanatic, so I grew up being able to go to the city and seeing, just like, world class music and art from a very young age.

00:02:00:16 - 00:02:23:37
Unknown
Wow. And I know that that kind of got me excited. Not that. Not like I was knowing I was going to grow up and be a musician or an artist of any kind. Like the age of ten. But, in retrospect, being around all that is pretty incredible. Right. And kind of set the standards high. Sure. And in terms of just being inspired by stuff you don't understand and wanting to learn how to do it, you know?

00:02:23:44 - 00:02:47:03
Unknown
So you had all this art swirling around. Your parents were, influenced your dad with jazz and that. Was there any, anybody in the family or not, uncle or aunt that was singing or performing or what? What got you into that? Not really. My my dad actually, when he was in college, played in big bands and did orchestral stuff.

00:02:47:03 - 00:03:01:37
Unknown
And so when, when I was a kid, he would have me that we there was a trumpet and a piano in the house, but no one could really play the piano. And the trumpet just kind of sat there. And about once a month, my dad would kind of wake up on Sunday morning and do a little Armstrong imitation.

00:03:01:44 - 00:03:26:22
Unknown
Oh, fun. And and, you know, like, do you know what it means to New Orleans or something? Like, maybe that was the inspiration. I just have to live because I grew up in a house where, like, we had the piano and the trumpet. Nobody really did that. You know, and a harp. You know, my grandmother played the harp, but I mean, but the, were you were the kind of kid that was also like, listening to vinyl or a little later.

00:03:26:28 - 00:03:45:15
Unknown
Okay. When I started playing trumpet, new York State public schools had a law, and everyone had to either join the band. Orchestra? Wire in the fourth grade. Cool. And I was deathly afraid of singing. Oh, and kind of being seen. I was kind of shy. All right, so I. So I came home one day and I asked my dad.

00:03:45:15 - 00:04:08:12
Unknown
Hey, can I use your old trumpet to play trumpet in the school band? Yeah. So that's how I started. Oh, I and I got pretty good pretty quickly. Yeah, I didn't I didn't really know I had musical genes that would encourage that or anything but. But I was always one of the better people, the better trumpet players and the better people in the school bands and stuff.

00:04:08:16 - 00:04:28:32
Unknown
Then, in the ninth grade, I got a bass guitar. And that's really kind of when it really kicked in, I was like, wow, now I can play music with my friends. And the idea of, you know, like when you're growing up in an orchestral setting or a concert band setting, verses you can message, there's no improvization, right?

00:04:28:34 - 00:04:54:06
Unknown
There's like, you read the notes, you execute them well, you learn the note values. You're using your ears to listen and fit in to your sense of tone and phrasing is definitely evolving, right? But it was. But it was when I started playing in rock bands with my buddies and doing R.E.M. songs and speaking songs and, Stones and Beatles and Creedence, you know.

00:04:54:11 - 00:05:15:30
Unknown
That's when I started realizing, oh, wow, you're allowed to kind of make up your own part and change it, you know what I mean? Right. Even if they're just little walks to get to the next chord. Right? You're not really blatantly changing song, right? But very early on, like, I was not into hyper music, I was really kind of just like whatever was on the radio.

00:05:15:35 - 00:05:35:00
Unknown
And also the early days of MTV, like, I was able to watch MTV because I was in the suburbs of the city, like, right the the day MTV started. Sure. So it was really it was fascinating what a big influence I was, you know. Yeah, it was it was awesome because it gave a visual power and you can see the personality, right?

00:05:35:02 - 00:05:56:03
Unknown
You know, it was still. It was still when you'd, like, save up your save up your, your 999 and go to the record store and only have money for one album or one cassette. And then that's the album you listened to all week long. Right. And also the glory days, I think. But yeah, you know, eventually start trying to figure out the bass parts of the guitar parts or whatever.

00:05:56:08 - 00:06:19:49
Unknown
But it was, it was a lot by ear. You know, it was we didn't have like, YouTube videos or tabla tablature existed. You had guitar player magazines and stuff like that, but, but it was very much you just play along with your minute work tape or like, I was way the Boston riot, which was a great band, you know, great, great band.

00:06:19:54 - 00:06:39:16
Unknown
And my best, my best friend loves you, Louis, on the news. So around that. Yeah. Yeah. And I had a couple other friends who are really into classic rock and the cool kids who are a couple of years older. We're in, like, an Allman Brothers and Dan cover band and stuff. So I was around a lot of music and learning to play it.

00:06:39:21 - 00:06:58:32
Unknown
But I very early on, like I had, I had one guitar player, buddy, who's had an older brother who was very hip. And so he would, you know, he would sneak into the city and he was seen, like R.E.M. and Oscar could and firehose like all these kind of what, what would later become called college radio.

00:06:58:41 - 00:07:20:47
Unknown
Yeah. And so this buddy of mine, Dan, through his older brother, turned me on to, like, what would later become my favorite music, but at the time was just like, well, this is what the cool people listen to, right? And I just remember, loving it and loving Mike Mills bass parts with R.E.M. and how creative they were and his great singing.

00:07:20:52 - 00:07:37:45
Unknown
Right. And like, just add a whole other dimension to. Yeah, to the music. And so, like, he might have been the first bass player that I was really like, wow, this is a he's a special guy in the band, not just someone playing along with the roots all the time. Well, let me turn this. I'm sorry.

00:07:37:46 - 00:08:10:16
Unknown
Game. It's all right. And those people to get in each other's the elevator. So there you go. For all of you listening, it's, We are in a hotel. We're in a hotel, man. We're at a teller on the outskirts of Chicago, and we're both, you know, musicians are hearing, you know, we at this point, you know, were you playing in many different bands, or were you like, did you see this as kind of a direction for you then?

00:08:10:20 - 00:08:33:29
Unknown
When did it become kind of like it was one of my favorite things to do. Okay. I didn't, and of course, we were in the suburbs of New York City. My parents were lovers of art, and actually, my mom was quite a good painter and would like, in a kind of impressionistic style. And, like, we would I was constantly going to her art shows and helping her hang the shows and like.

00:08:33:41 - 00:08:53:24
Unknown
But it was often in like, libraries and local restaurants, and but so like, she wasn't a painter for a living. So art was something you loved and that was inspiring to do. But the idea of doing it as a musician didn't hit me as a as a reality until later. So, yeah, I was just going to quickly comment.

00:08:53:24 - 00:09:13:06
Unknown
So you're already learning the gig mentality, though, because what your mom was doing was going into those places. Yeah. You know, where you have to you have to get out and be seen. But, but also and also, I very quickly became one of the few bass players in my high school and then and then college, it kind of amplified.

00:09:13:06 - 00:09:31:21
Unknown
Right. And so I started, hey, we have these three friends that you that have a band and they're really into Depeche Mode. Well, you play bass with them, right? Hey, I have these friends and they're into southern Rock. Will you be in their band? So I very quickly kind of started thinking like a freelance musician without knowing it.

00:09:31:32 - 00:09:47:59
Unknown
Right? Because I had all these different groups I never had my core of like the five buddies that were best friends then and are still best friends now, right? I always became the bass player, kind of chameleon person who would join the other group of friends. Were you an only kid or did you said, no, I've got I've got an older sister.

00:09:47:59 - 00:10:06:42
Unknown
She's a couple years old. And what, what what was her path? She was, She was she was more of a partier. Okay? Was much more social, and I was I was kind of a quiet, shy. Okay. So, I mean, just type of person. Right? So we had very different lives. Okay. In high school. I mean, we were around.

00:10:06:42 - 00:10:32:08
Unknown
We love each. Yeah. But, but I do remember, like, hearing, she was two years older than me. So I remember hearing the doors. She went through a cheap trick phase. She went through Howard Jones phase. And, so I remember that music coming through the wall and listening to it. And, like, years later, like when I was getting into Cheap Trick, I'm like, oh, my God, I know this dream police song, right?

00:10:32:13 - 00:10:58:00
Unknown
Yeah. Well, I think you brought up an already a great point for, aspiring musicians to kind of lock into that, you know, if you want to make a lot of traction, be a bass player because, yeah, it's it's I think it's kind of weird that, you know, debate there's not a bass player that can sing is really valuable, but, just a good bass player, you'll be popular because everybody wants to play the guitar, drums.

00:10:58:05 - 00:11:23:35
Unknown
And, so, this is very interesting that you gravitated toward the bass. You went from trumpet to the bass, which is interesting, too. And you're you're in some, artistic family. And then there must have been the epiphany where you were like, hey, man, I, I gotta, I gotta do something with my life, right? I mean, it was actually, it was actually the end of college.

00:11:23:41 - 00:11:46:53
Unknown
Okay? Like, I was, What did you. Major. Right. So. So I went from the suburbs of New York state, where I grew up, to Suny Binghamton, okay. And Binghamton is the is like, if New York State is kind of a giant triangle, right? Right. Binghamton is on the bottom, right in the middle. Okay. It's near Ithaca and kind of Scranton, Pennsylvania.

00:11:46:58 - 00:12:03:49
Unknown
And but it was a great school, but it was kind of a smaller college. And the music program, there was very much about music education. And I kind of knew I didn't want to be a music teacher. Right. Like high school music teacher or middle school orchestra teacher or something like that. So I was never a music major.

00:12:03:54 - 00:12:26:10
Unknown
But I ended up being a double English and philosophy major, and I was way into it. I really loved by, you know, writing my term papers and getting into Immanuel Kant, George Bernard Shaw. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. It's interesting you came into this career. I was at a very roundabout way studying the literary stuff. Right. But I was in the school jazz band and yeah, orchestras.

00:12:26:17 - 00:12:47:09
Unknown
And like, I had that. I had a jazz combo with my friends. I had a school band with some other friends. I had a, I had a kind of an indie rock band with other friends. I, I discovered Sly and the family Stone, and Robert Palmer is like the 70s Robert Palmer, not the addicted to love, but like the sneaking right then.

00:12:47:14 - 00:13:09:39
Unknown
So I was in a difference. I ended up being in a great band with some other friends where we would like. It was kind of like soul funk, you know, college hippie party music. Okay. What made the the leap from New York to LA? Well, it let's see. I was a still, the last year or so I was in college.

00:13:09:52 - 00:13:32:10
Unknown
I was applying to grad schools. Okay. To try to be an English professor. Okay. I wanted to do graduate literary, literary work. And then about two months before the end of college, I kind of realized, you know what? I really love music. I really want to try. Wow. And I told my parents, give me two years.

00:13:32:15 - 00:13:54:23
Unknown
I want to try being a musician. If it doesn't work, I can always go to grad school. I want to do this other path. And I never needed to. I just kind of moved from. From Binghamton. I had fallen in love with a wonderful woman who later became my wife. Just, and so. And basically, we were finishing up college at Binghamton, and she said, I'm moving to Seattle.

00:13:54:27 - 00:14:11:11
Unknown
You can do whatever you want, but if you want to come, please come with me. But I'm moving to Seattle, which is something like that. But yeah, yeah. And could also, coincidentally, my best friend from high school was going to Seattle. He was going to do he was going to University of Washington. He was going to do graduate work.

00:14:11:23 - 00:14:42:40
Unknown
Okay. And actually, the woman that he fell in love with in college, she was from Seattle. So I was like, okay, my girlfriend and my best friend from high school are both going to be in Seattle. And then, of course, grunge was already famous. So the city was known to have an art scene. And I literally found one magazine in the, in the school library that talked about the other music scene of Seattle, which had, just dozens of other cool bars and blues and jazz and the like.

00:14:42:44 - 00:15:02:53
Unknown
It talked about all of these other kind of little microbrews and different places that that the overall music scene in Seattle is vibrant, not just the five grunge bands that we'd all heard of. Okay. And so literally, the strength of this one article, it was like, well, I can, I can, I can learn. I'm going to try to move to Seattle and be a freelance musician.

00:15:02:58 - 00:15:29:28
Unknown
So my girl, my girlfriend and I, she had a motorcycle. I had a Hammond organ that I bought along the way for my for my band to play like the family Stone covers. And then, I sold the organ. She sold the motorcycle. We bought an AMC Concord, and we're, like, pack as much as we can into this car and hope it makes it across the Rocky Mountains.

00:15:29:33 - 00:15:46:27
Unknown
And it is a great story. And it did. It made it actually the reason we bought that car. At first we were going to rent a U-Haul. Yeah, I think the U-Haul is like, you know, how U-Haul always charges more. Sure. Like a car rental places always charge more if you leave it at another location. Like.

00:15:46:27 - 00:16:10:06
Unknown
And it was like, okay, the whole goal is to drive the cross-country, not like, drive back to Binghamton to drop the car off again. Yeah. So like, it was burning the ship behind, I think it was $1,800 to rent. Do you want to go across the country? And so I remember having this great conversation with, with my wife, like, as long as we can get a car that's less than $1,800 and it makes it bigger, we've already made our money back anyway.

00:16:10:06 - 00:16:34:32
Unknown
So we load screaming into this AMC Concord, which was a great car, and I ended up driving that car for the next 5 or 6 years in Seattle, you know? But we made it to Seattle. We crashed, like my high school friend's couch for about first week. Yeah, I bought an acoustic bass that first week because I was playing a lot in jazz groups and stuff from an orchestra, but I was always borrowing the school's bass.

00:16:34:32 - 00:16:52:02
Unknown
Right. At the time, I maybe had, like, 1 or 2 electric basses, and that was it. Well, I mean, acoustic guitar too. And so I bought the acoustic bass, I saw it and, the kind of the one ends. Yeah. Like, you know how every city has, like, the Village Voice, right? L.A. Weekly. What kind of what kind of bass?

00:16:52:02 - 00:17:08:43
Unknown
What? The album is called The Rocket was the name of the the rock magazine. Yeah, right, with a bunch of articles. But then you also have the club listings for all the bands playing. And then in the back there was the wanted section, okay? It was like bass player wanted, keyboard player wanted must have car like T-Rex, that kind of thing.

00:17:08:43 - 00:17:31:57
Unknown
And so this wasn't a stand up. It was this was this was a real stand up. Yeah. No, it's a bass from the early 50s. Cool. Company is good like g u with the, like teasing. It's very similar, to the K basses so that a lot of people play. Now that's the similar in America you were ready for like your Violent Femmes face and yes, yes indeed, no.

00:17:31:57 - 00:17:52:28
Unknown
But I love the acoustic bass and I played a lot of jazz. It was very cool to me in my in college, in my early and, you know, and then that. Yeah, it's, it's, it's just a totally different animal. It's a beautiful instrument. And for certain genres and bands, the acoustic is just the instrument rather than the electric bass.

00:17:52:32 - 00:18:15:00
Unknown
So I got really, I got very comfortable with both of them doing whatever the gig needed. Right. And and also going to recording sessions with both, but like, oh, let's do these two songs or a little bluegrass. Let's use the acoustic bass. You didn't know it at the time, but you were in grad school. Yes. You know, and actually, yes, Seattle.

00:18:15:05 - 00:18:35:01
Unknown
I haven't thought of it that way in a while, but I used to think of like, Seattle was my grad school for music. Absolutely. Where I was like, doing every gig I could find Blues bands, jazz bands, more school bands. I tell people that pop rock bands, you know, musicians like you, you know, there's there's, I mean, you can go to Berklee, but that doesn't mean you're going to get job placement.

00:18:35:06 - 00:18:59:10
Unknown
You have to go to grad school, which is the school of living. Yeah. No, the living, the the the the life. And. Yeah. No. And at that point I was mostly being a side band. Yeah, by other people. But you got to learn to show up on time and dress appropriately. Right. Not play too loud. Have to have gear that's going to work.

00:18:59:15 - 00:19:21:40
Unknown
Yeah, you know what I mean? And the character transport, I mean, it's the logistics of it and also get into the mindset of the people you're working with. Yeah. To like, okay, what is this? What is this? Bandleader need to be really comfortable. Yeah. You know, and that's what I learned. That's what that's when I also really started learning that many, many great musicians are not great at verbalizing their music.

00:19:21:40 - 00:19:40:06
Unknown
I think coming from New York and maybe the literary background, I really like talking about music. I want to bridge, let's let's write, make the minor chord twice as long and slow down and go half time and do this, and then we'll bring in a counter melody like this. And, and many musicians are not comfortable talking in that way.

00:19:40:08 - 00:19:58:56
Unknown
Right. They just there's a, there's a like let's play by ear and talking about the music too much kind of like I think some people fear that you remove the magic or the potential for magic. That's interesting. And that's going to be great with our next discussion, because I think we should hone in on that. Sure. I'll make a mental note of that.

00:19:59:01 - 00:20:15:35
Unknown
Why don't we take a little pause right here and we're going to listen, to Ted, the one of his, and watch as well of one of his videos of him playing, and we'll take a little break after this. You're, strung out.

00:20:27:35 - 00:20:47:11
Unknown
Just regular guy from Austin, Texas. On a road of bad luck. No, not from my exes moving around trying to start a new life. A will meet a nice girl, maybe make him that way about everlasting. He'd have been making the crazy man. I said I was me I said I was late, it's you. Good. Then just go south.

00:20:47:11 - 00:20:51:04
Unknown
Which is a long time. But if.

00:20:51:08 - 00:21:16:46
Unknown
Y'all just fall from grace on the way down the hill. Stopped. And now you will feel for a lady drinking whiskey and road. And I've been dating everyone on the hill. Reason. Don't you ever wonder who Ringo Lee.

00:21:16:51 - 00:21:40:32
Unknown
No. I just wanted you living in Corpus Christi. She was hell on wheels. Her name was Misty. We stayed out late and always looked real nice. I guess to have a good time, you got to be the bright, apple. Back when I was a cable guy, she started messing around when the wheel went wrong. I thought I'd been to every home in the hill country, but she was going door to go, removed me.

00:21:40:37 - 00:22:16:36
Unknown
Y'all just fall from grace. On the way home. To who the devil stopped in Austin for a drink. You will feel violated drinking whiskey and water. And I've never wanted ranging buildings. Yeah, well, what the hell with the.

00:22:16:40 - 00:22:35:17
Unknown
Now I remember old. It didn't have. No. Glad you took my heart, my money and me for a ride. I was king of San Antone. With you was my girl. Then she left me flat broke when she left my. And there was Waco. Jane is now the sweetest assault because I was wrapped around a finger like ring an apple in 21 days.

00:22:35:17 - 00:22:55:53
Unknown
We said I do, and just 21 mo before she left me blue. Y'all just fall from grace. On the way down the hill the devil stopped and now control the drinking to win. It fell for a lady. Drink a whiskey and water. And I've been painting everyone over the hill. Raising daughters fall from grace. On the way home, the hill the devil stopped.

00:22:55:53 - 00:23:15:07
Unknown
And asking for a drink. At a will they'll fall. Related. Drinking whiskey and warm it up and take the hill. Reason cause everyone on the hill make them. Everyone on the hill.

00:23:15:07 - 00:23:44:17
Unknown
Hello, this is Polly Chase. Presenting artwork by Martin McCormick. This painting, titled dude, features a mountain range that holds a special place in Marty's heart. On the canvas, which measures 20 by 24. We see the Tetons rising in the hazy distance of a view from an abandoned dude ranch just outside Jackson Hole, Wyoming, near Marty's parent's old place.

00:23:44:22 - 00:24:23:31
Unknown
The cool blues and violets of the background complement the buttery yellow foreground. These colors pass the viewer's attention back and forth along the horizontal plane, while the decaying model T sinks into that scrubby landscape, from which the majestic peaks punch upward along the vertical plane. It's a quiet yet very moving scene, both artistically and emotionally. It pulls the imagination into a human story waiting to be told, one witnessed by rock that is millions of years old.

00:24:23:35 - 00:24:34:11
Unknown
To explore this painting and more of Marty's artwork. Go to Martin mccormick.com.

00:24:34:11 - 00:24:53:14
Unknown
We're we're back with Ted Russell Camp. And, you know, he is, a journeyman musician, living in LA and, making a career out of music. And he's really giving us a great primer on how to get into the music business.

00:24:53:19 - 00:25:19:36
Unknown
And, let's continue from Seattle. You're living, how long were you and your wife then? We were in Seattle for maybe seven years. Okay. And I will say one of the big things about going to Seattle and starting to play for a living, I realized that my high school and college of playing and all these different bands and being like, the friend of a friend, or I saw you play with this other band.

00:25:19:36 - 00:25:39:01
Unknown
Are you free on the 18th? Can you learn 12 songs? Can be in our band, right? Like I, I when I got to Seattle, I was like, wow, the only skill to be a good freelance musician that I didn't learn in college was how to ask about money, how to talk about money. You're bringing up another. It's like, oh my God, you got a gig at the frat party?

00:25:39:01 - 00:25:56:31
Unknown
Wonderful. Yeah. Everyone pays. I'm just happy to be there. Right? Right. That's a tough that's a tough department. When I got to Seattle is when I had to figure out, oh, wow, this is a game. It's an hour out of town. It's a long drive. It's a four set gig. There's a lot of rehearsal that. It's hard to say yes to that for 50 bucks.

00:25:56:39 - 00:26:19:05
Unknown
Right? Unless they're deeply wonderful people. And I'm learning about this new genre. So I had to start getting my my kind of standards together. It took a few years, but sure, I start. I had a, I had a four standard. Yeah, let's hear it because I think this is great gig. Well, okay. They had to be really wonderful, cool people that I loved the the hang and getting to know them.

00:26:19:09 - 00:26:44:09
Unknown
Right. The level of musicianship had to be if they were great musicians, and I knew I was going to learn on that level, but it didn't pay much of like, okay, I got that and it's going to be a lesson, right? Right. I'm going to get better. Right? And then the fourth one was the David Lynch factor, where if the gig was just like, weird and unlike anything I'd ever done before, the thing, then I'm not done counting in like there is.

00:26:44:09 - 00:27:08:40
Unknown
There was, you know, how you you know how maybe not as much now, but all around America, you used to have those, the street musicians from, like, Peru and South America. Right. Like the flutes. Yeah. And it would be like some version of of, Anyway, so I ended up meeting some of these guys. And one guy was from Mexico, one guy was from El Salvador, one guy was from Peru.

00:27:08:45 - 00:27:32:42
Unknown
And so they had this great band. It was just kind of this mishmash of, of, just all kinds of Latin, Latin music. Right. And so I ended up joining the band and like on Cinco de Mayo, we would have five gigs in one day. Sure. We would play at like an old age home, and then we would do a bar gig, and then we would do a commune of like a community center.

00:27:32:47 - 00:27:52:00
Unknown
Latino festivals. Right. You know, and I was like, wow, I've never done this music before. You know, I'm the only native English speaker in this band. So that was like that had a, that had a really cool David Lynch factor. Not that it was weird like I did. I did one great gig, which was at it was a wedding at a nudist colony.

00:27:52:05 - 00:28:19:19
Unknown
Oh, Gene. Oregon. That's pretty good. And I was like, okay, how often are you going to get to play at a nudist colony? And it was 30 degrees. No, no. But like if you do, if the gig was interesting or quirky enough, I unlike anything I ever I think you're touching on something. Yes. The experience. Yes. One of the joys of our business is, is that you get to do something that people, you know, dream about doing, being in weird locations and situation.

00:28:19:23 - 00:28:40:39
Unknown
And, thank you for pointing out about the money part of it, because I think so many people in, trying to make it happen in music, forget that it is a business and you're in a it's kind of a tough business in the sense that, you have something that people, definitely need but don't necessarily want.

00:28:40:44 - 00:29:08:58
Unknown
And so there's a little bit of an inherent bias. They'll look at you and they say, hey, okay, well, you know, I've got to 200 bucks and, you know, and I've got a three hour gig and they look at you, you know, I mean, so, so developing that in, that, that business acumen. Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely that's part of and my dad was a great businessman who had his own company for many years.

00:29:08:58 - 00:29:39:36
Unknown
He worked with other larger companies a lot, but it was very important to him. And actually he I think some of his favorite years of his adult life or when he had his own company. Sure. And he said, you're the first one there. You're the last one to leave. You're overworked. You leave the office on Friday afternoon, and you know that if you don't come up with thousands of dollars or the solution to some problem by Monday, you'll have like, you can't pay the paychecks of six people that you work with.

00:29:39:41 - 00:30:07:03
Unknown
And so, like, he really taught me all these lessons about kind of how I don't know how responsibility works, how businesses could work in entrepreneurship. And then when I started playing music like, like even early on in Seattle, there were times it was like, wow, not enough people are calling me for gigs and new in town. So I was sold like Starbucks was beginning in Seattle, where I was beginning to spread right nationally, but they were opening new Starbucks every month.

00:30:07:08 - 00:30:27:24
Unknown
And I played, you know, like I would go into the Starbucks and I was like, hi, can I talk to the manager? And I'd say, hi, you know, like, I see you have live music once a week. I've got a jazz trio. Can we come in and play on like and they're like, oh yeah, we, we're, we're booking, you know, live jazz every Thursday from 7 to 10.

00:30:27:29 - 00:30:56:12
Unknown
And it's $225 for the band was like great, $75 each. And then I started putting my own book of jazz charts together and hiring my friends. And I wasn't like, you know, like, we all make 75 bucks each, and I didn't have a CD or anything to sell. It was just, let's go and play jazz. And I and I very quickly started to figure out how to try to be artistic and play the music I loved, while also fulfilling the function.

00:30:56:17 - 00:31:14:50
Unknown
You know, like I had some friends that were too artsy or too already and I was like, dark, right? It's the jazz where you hear like that saxophone player is just like playing really fast and it's noise, right where the drummer's too loud is freaking out, like, right. And like, like, we don't have to play. It's super safe and play takes a train all night, right?

00:31:14:56 - 00:31:54:11
Unknown
You know, or like a simple, safe jazz tune, we can still have fun, but we have to fit into this, occasion if we want to get hired again. That's a wonderful thing, too, because it's giving you a chance to experiment. But like you said, within the parameters of the environment that you're in. Yeah. Which is so important again, for musicianship, you bring out a lot of great things because that's normally what you're going to be with is, you're going to be in an environment that even a rock club, you know, has its own culture that you have to kind of understand before you go into it, you know?

00:31:54:11 - 00:32:14:43
Unknown
Yeah. And and even fast forward to now when I'm doing gigs either at L in LA or when I'm on tour in Europe, or it's sometimes it's me with a band driving around in some rental car of some kind with our gear. Sometimes it's just me solo. I'll fly you an airport, rent a car, do 5 or 6 gigs and then fly home.

00:32:14:43 - 00:32:34:48
Unknown
Right? But some gigs are these wonderful, intimate listening rooms where where there's a wonderful audience. I already have fans there. They they want to hear me tell stories and relax. And I can play these really intimate ballads. Right. And sometimes I'll show up and it's like, okay, just, just it's like a weekly thing at a pub, right?

00:32:34:48 - 00:32:50:26
Unknown
And they have a cool they have cool bands from out of town every Thursday and it's like, okay, these guys are playing pool in the back. They didn't. They're not paying to see me play. I've got 20 people in the front who are paying to see me play, right. But it's a pub and you know, like so tough.

00:32:50:26 - 00:33:11:34
Unknown
Yeah. Like it's, you know, like people are still picking each other up at the bar and there's a, there's a drunk, rowdy guy. So all of a sudden I'm like, okay, I need this show to be artistic and interesting and soulful for me and a great experience for the audience. But I can't I can't get to the point where you can hear the pin, the needle drop, or the pin drop, right?

00:33:11:36 - 00:33:41:11
Unknown
Because then it there's just like noise. Yeah. So I'm like, okay, I need to kind of keep a level of, of rock and energy 20% more. And then if there's that time, there's a magical time for the ballad later, then great. But I have to, you know, still still keep in mind the audience and what they mean. And like, I love I tour in Europe a couple times a year, and in some countries they, they literally just understand English better, right?

00:33:41:16 - 00:34:02:00
Unknown
So when I'm in a place like Spain, or France, where they love American music and then they go, it's wonderful. But a good chunk of the audience knows a little English. Not a lot. And so I tell their stories. I jam a little more. I let the instrumental power and the passion of the music come through.

00:34:02:00 - 00:34:20:55
Unknown
Right. And when I am telling a story, I'd be like highway 1 or 1 Sound Studios. Yeah, I had a I had a publishing deal in Nashville, Tennessee. Little sound bites, a little sound bites pick. Ooh. And they can get excited. You can get it. And then when I'm in, like, Sweden or the Netherlands or countries where they really speak English, well, then I can kind of stop.

00:34:20:55 - 00:34:56:13
Unknown
I or I can approach it from a different way, right. Kind of tell more stories. And I know, okay, this is already a song with some more poetry in it. They're going to get this. And and this is going to fit better tonight. Yes. This is great stuff. To hear. And, I want to get, from your Seattle days down to L.A., where you kind of discover, I think, you know, our, our generation, you know, the term Americana music kind of came in through the back door, you know?

00:34:56:26 - 00:35:13:18
Unknown
I mean, we were playing this stuff and and the way, you know, the influences that that you, just outlined for all, all of us. I mean, those are influences that play into Americana music, which is, I you know, I was going to ask you, what is your definition of Americana music? Because I would love to hear it.

00:35:16:49 - 00:35:46:42
Unknown
Well, in my opinion, Americana music, is pop music that has a strong foundation. And American roots music. So some of it's more country, or bluegrass or like my, one of the things that led me to playing was Shooter Jennings and, and also being into what I am still doing is this love of Willie and Waylon, this love of the band.

00:35:46:47 - 00:36:10:50
Unknown
Right. This love of Jackson Browne, this love of the 70s singer songwriter. My love of Motown. Right. My love of of, you know, Western swing and my love of Texas bar band music. You know what I mean? Yeah. As it's as it's evolved through honky tonk and like, Johnny Paycheck in the 70s, right? There's all this other stuff.

00:36:10:55 - 00:36:28:12
Unknown
And so when I write songs now or when I'm playing with people, I like it when there's a sense of American music history or like, the blues, you know, like, one of the things I realized when I was in L.A for a few years, I was like, okay, there's this cool blues rock band that's going to hire me to do a rehearsal with them.

00:36:28:18 - 00:36:56:37
Unknown
A showcase club in L.A, and I'd be like, wow, okay. If they like Zeppelin, that's great. But if they like the stuff that Zeppelin loves and I can, I can feel that informing their music, that I like them even more. Right? And I'm more satisfied by playing music, you know, I, I feel like you still want it to be kind of pop music, and sometimes that can be very sensitive singer songwriter music with, you know, like, it's a bunch of long verses and a lot of poetry and not, like, can know that for you.

00:36:56:37 - 00:37:16:45
Unknown
Yeah. Not like, you know, pop on the, you know, pop on the radio, you know, Britney Spears like, like or Beyonce like, immediately grabs you like, but they're still pop songs, but still you've still got choruses. You still have melodies, you still have themes. You want to relate to the audience that you want them like I want.

00:37:16:45 - 00:37:37:05
Unknown
I want the audience to understand, like very cool. I wanted to make it so abstract, right, that it's confusing, you know? And so, I remember it actually discovering what later became called American. It was part of why I left in Seattle. In Seattle, I was playing it a lot of different kinds of bands, a lot of different music.

00:37:37:10 - 00:38:04:12
Unknown
I had started an original music band with a buddy of mine who was a great violinist, and we used to consider ourselves like the morphine of Seattle. But instead of bass, saxophone and drums, we'd be bass, violin and drums, bass, electric violin. And and we toured a lot. And I remember there was one gig, where we were in Salt Lake City, and we went back to our motel, which is the same motel we stayed every time.

00:38:04:17 - 00:38:21:24
Unknown
And there was, the Austin city limits all year on. And it was the episode of Whiskey Town and the old 90s, and each band played for a half an hour. Wow. Fun. And at that point it was called Old country. Right? And when I saw them, I was like, wow, this is exactly what I want to do, right?

00:38:21:24 - 00:38:43:11
Unknown
This country based. But it's got the, the, the sexuality and drive of rock and roll. Absolutely. And that watching them was like this pivotal. I was like, okay, I want to stop doing this, this jazzy or this other stuff that's too folky or this other stuff that's too. You found your voice. Yeah. They, they they really that really moved me.

00:38:43:11 - 00:39:00:50
Unknown
And right around that time, I had a friend who said, you've never seen The Last Waltz. You've got to see. You don't know the band. Everybody has to go to their band and Blue Rodeo. I'll throw on there, too. Yeah. And the Canadian aspect. Totally. And I watched The Last Waltz. I was like, these, these might be the coolest musicians I've ever seen.

00:39:00:50 - 00:39:32:26
Unknown
Yes, because they were combining blues, gospel, country, even the Joni Mitchell section, where it has quite jazzy fusion, right? With her song coyote. But you got Doctor John, you got Muddy Waters, you got Eric Clapton. And like the new generation of what the blues could be. Yeah, I think I think you could easily say the band was kind of the, the all the really made Americana music, the genre that the name came to later.

00:39:32:26 - 00:39:58:02
Unknown
But, we can talk about that, but they were one of the pivotal ones. Yeah. If you look back on American Musical or if American musical history, even though four of four of the five were Canadian. Well, and but they, they, they had such a, such a beautiful way of kind of synthesizing everything and also all their work with Bob Dylan where they were, they were part of the developing concept of a modern songwriter and Michael Nesmith, pulse monkeys.

00:39:58:07 - 00:40:19:29
Unknown
Oh, yeah. You know, some people call him the father of Americana. And, we're going to take we're going to take a little break because we're, we're at that point where, we need to hear, Ted, playing one of his songs and, we're going to let him curate. This is going to be fun, because I'm not going to even know what he's going to be playing.

00:40:19:29 - 00:40:31:47
Unknown
And, you'll be sending it along to me, but, maybe something reflective of the Americana. Who knows? But you are with Ted Russell Camp, and you are, strung out.

00:40:49:20 - 00:41:20:06
Unknown
I've been working on livelong day. Mo, Mo. Just make him up. You know there's got to be a better way. It's given me to hanging on blue. The pulse man on my Sam line is ground. And now I gotta work. Old time was only about to lose my mind. I'm living with. And you know. Blue, you know I'm hanging up way too long.

00:41:20:10 - 00:41:46:12
Unknown
Trying to make sense of it all. To keep on playing along. No. You know, I'm hanging up. I'm barely making right from wrong. I when it feels like getting ahead, I'm just playing the. And all I get is more ready to hang. You know who?

00:41:46:17 - 00:42:11:31
Unknown
I got second job, a jackhammer all night. I'm standing on the street nightspot like my back and my finger signal right from all these hanging on to. It's like everybody living on minimum wage. And it's my own enough to drive a man. But if you can't afford the book, you can't turn the page. Oh, what about the hanging on blue?

00:42:11:36 - 00:42:52:29
Unknown
You know, I'm hanging up so damn long, I'm trying to make sense of it. Oh, to keep on playing a low. No, no, I said I'm hanging on. I barely make it right now. And when it feels like I'm getting late, I'm just paying my due. But all I got is more of these hanging on them.

00:42:52:34 - 00:43:05:39
Unknown
I'm.

00:43:05:44 - 00:43:28:19
Unknown
Just a mile or two from Easy Street. But you can't get down on your home two feet. You need a limousine with plush backseat to get you past the hanging on to. Father time is just scratching its head. When Mother Nature's trying to keep us all fit. The man in the moon can barely get out of bed. Because they all got that.

00:43:28:19 - 00:44:01:57
Unknown
And you know, blue, you know, I'm hanging on through it, you know, trying to make sense of it all, to keep on playing a long, long. I'm, you know, I'm hanging out. I'm barely making right from wrong when abused. I give nothing and I'm just paying the do. Cause all I get is more with these. Hey, you know, do I said that all I got is more Roddy.

00:44:01:58 - 00:44:15:51
Unknown
Hey, you know, do. You know that God is all a deep thing, you know? Do.

00:44:15:51 - 00:44:39:50
Unknown
back with Ted Russell Camp. And, I, Yes. Whiskey town, you know, Uncle Tupelo, these bands existed, but, I'm I'm going to say that you were already. You were you were finding Americana music just by doing, and there was and there were also, like, work.

00:44:39:52 - 00:45:00:24
Unknown
Yeah. No, but and there was also a great wave where Americana was kind of starting to through, like Steve Earle and Lyle Lovett and Nancy Griffith. Right. Even Mary Jane Carpenter there was and they, there was a guy named Henry Lee Summer I randomly discovered who was not going to be a guest star as, yeah, those other women.

00:45:00:29 - 00:45:24:17
Unknown
But there were people like John Cougar Mellencamp was like this heartland roots rock had moments of fame. Sure. As as it related to mainstream country. When I first discovered Bonnie Raitt, that was a big one, because I was like, wow. It's kind of like this laid back, swaggering blues, yet it's somehow famous pop music, right? You know what I mean?

00:45:24:19 - 00:46:14:43
Unknown
Well, I love the fact that you ended pop into the. You description of Americana music, because I think that's that's dead on. And because Americana music is a forgiving style, but in the sense that, you know, you can you can push the boundaries without anybody really, you know, crossing their eyes. But the other thing that, you know, you mentioned that I like about it is, is that, the the influences, the, the 1970s influence specifically, I think in its purest form kind of percolated into, Americana music, you know, where you have, the Pure Prairie League, you have Marshall Tucker, you have, is, you know, Crosby, stills, Nash and

00:46:14:43 - 00:46:40:26
Unknown
Young, all these these wonderful melodic bands and that melodic part of it, I think, is so attractive and, and a lot of the, a lot of that, you know, comes loosely from the history of country music. And it's like you feel all of American music kind of modernizing and growing up together as different artists of every of every era in the last 100 years or so.

00:46:40:30 - 00:47:00:32
Unknown
Right. You feel people go like, oh, that's what you like to do. I'm going to take it to the next level and do this. Sometimes technology helps, right? You know, one of the reasons those records in the 70s are so great is because the technology of a recording studio had evolved, right? And so now here you hear everything in a richer, subtler way.

00:47:00:36 - 00:47:30:35
Unknown
And like, you know, you get you get to those Elton John records in the 70s, it's like, wow, that's the sound of the man piano, right? Like we'd heard that before and even on like, great orchestral recordings, but, just microphones and recording tape and, and and, like vinyl records. Recording technology was kept evolving. Well, even Elton John had certain songs that took a country, you know, sensibility and, and channeled a little bit of that Americana vibe.

00:47:30:40 - 00:48:04:57
Unknown
Though it wasn't real Americana and not necessarily that that term is even, still a good term to fit the genre. But American roots music, certainly. Yeah. And, as you said earlier, it's funny, at least for me, how much it resonates more with Europeans. Yeah, yeah. And I, I just, I'm and I don't know if that's because their, you know, romantic notion of, of American music, you know, that the great West sort of thing or what.

00:48:04:59 - 00:48:31:47
Unknown
But especially like, you know, in Netherlands, Sweden, you know, those countries, they get it. They totally do. They have to do and, you know, it's also like Elton John is a little later, but like, think about the British Invasion and all those like all all those bands and the British bands in the 60s who were discovering buddy Holly and discovering the blues and Muddy Waters.

00:48:31:48 - 00:49:07:14
Unknown
Right. And, you know, like George Harrison talking about how much he loved Chet Atkins playing. Right. And you hear the Beatles doing Motown tunes and also the country tunes, right? Buck Owens actually, and it's like they, they had this and and then kind of helped create this whole power and new genre of British music inspired by American music in a way that Americans couldn't have done because many, like we still had, you know, a huge separation between white and black and different, different radio stations, different different venues.

00:49:07:19 - 00:49:27:24
Unknown
Many of the great American musicians of that time were able to combine, right? Was considered black music and white music. Elvis and, Jerry Lewis, like, there's a whole list of of these artists like, it's a great point. I got to work with Tanya Tucker on a couple of her records. And she has a pretty, like.

00:49:27:24 - 00:50:01:36
Unknown
She's a country singer, right? And. Yeah, she's a she's very country, but she there's a bluesy this in her voice that's unmistakable. And I think that's part of the power of, of of her music, is her and the way Chuck Berry would describe, how he's. I, I'm synthesizing a little bit, but the magic of, for me, the magic of Chuck Berry music as he would take country storytelling because he grew up listening to country music, right.

00:50:01:45 - 00:50:24:00
Unknown
Combining with this exciting, like African American rock, intense R&B rhythm. And then all of a sudden, it's one of the burdens of rock and roll, right? Because he's he's like, he's doing, like he's doing 12 bar blues, but with a chorus. So it's pop music and it's got a driving beat that's not a shuffle beat, you know what I mean?

00:50:24:04 - 00:50:43:17
Unknown
It's like he's like, you had all of these, iconic American artists who were just kind of inventing new stuff and New Year's Day, you're like, oh, rock and roll just changed right now. We can actually call it rock n roll. Right now. It's not R&B anymore, right? Whatever it is. And then it just keeps, it keeps coming.

00:50:43:17 - 00:51:08:55
Unknown
And then you get a group like the band, where you get, like, you're talking about Michael Nesmith. Yeah. You're like someone heard David Bowie. Like, even though not, of course not American, but like. But between Britain and I'd say the English speaking world, let's say. Well, you know, things keep changing and getting arty or and and and keep evolving.

00:51:09:00 - 00:51:36:45
Unknown
I want to ask, you know, this love then this discovery of of American, of music and you're up in Seattle. It prompted. Then the move down to LA was it because you were just like, that's where I have to go. That's where, you know, the work is or the business, or was it just, was it just an opportunity to hear, you know, to explore new territory, or was your life like, you know, it's too cold up here?

00:51:36:52 - 00:51:53:36
Unknown
No, it was both. In fact, I what is one of the things I still talk with my wife and we're still married. We've been married over 25 years. Congratulations. That's awesome. Yeah. Any kids are there? Yeah, we have a 17 year old son. Oh. Well, okay. I got an 11 year old daughter, so I like it. Yeah, yeah.

00:51:53:41 - 00:52:11:42
Unknown
My wife would have stayed in Seattle forever. She loved Seattle. Still loves it. Yeah. And, going back to our financial talk about how to survive in music, and you got to you have to think, like, what do I want to do? What's artistically going to be important to? What will I learn from, what do I like doing right?

00:52:11:44 - 00:52:40:27
Unknown
Versus how do I make money doing it? Because I, I kind of decided very early on, I don't want to have a day job and do music. Sometimes I want music to be my job. Which is an important point because, that's the difference between, you know, when you make that leap that commitment to the muse and you burn that bridge and you say, I'm not going back, it's it's a it's a part time work.

00:52:40:32 - 00:52:59:24
Unknown
It's a big commitment. I did I there were a few phases in Seattle where I would start teaching, bass lessons and guitar lessons or jazz music theory lessons. One of the guys that was in a great jump blues band with him was a high school music teacher. And so he started hiring me like, there was one year where they didn't.

00:52:59:29 - 00:53:17:27
Unknown
The band was good, but they didn't have a good bass player, so he hired me to play bass in the student concerts so that all the kid, all the kids could perform and have a good help. And actually that counts. I mean, you know, and then I would and then he and then like every Wednesday, I would go to this school and teach four music lessons in a row.

00:53:17:29 - 00:53:36:25
Unknown
Right. So I was doing some stuff like that and I wanted to keep I wanted I really wanted to keep playing, you know, not to disparage people that are, you know, have a day gig to, to do. It is just a different kind of creature because I think once you jump into that full time commitment, you really are kind of, outside the kindness of your spouse.

00:53:36:32 - 00:54:10:30
Unknown
You know, if she's working, you know, the you're you're working without, you know, any kind of, life raft or anything, as far as the commitment to the to making it happen. Yeah. You know, and, I'll follow up quickly. Just so you're heading to L.A., then, and before we get to L.A.. Okay. One of the things that happened, when I was in Seattle and I was probably 25, 26, so beginning to be maybe early 27 ish.

00:54:10:35 - 00:54:26:52
Unknown
I remember thinking, I've now worked my way up from the $50 gig. Right. But now it's like. And like, I could I to like the 100 and $125 a night were there, you know, like, I mean, I'm in a five piece band and we're doing whether it's a private party or a rock club, you guys have audience.

00:54:26:52 - 00:54:50:47
Unknown
We're like, okay, we're making 500 bucks. Everyone gets $100, right? And then I and then I, and I remember thinking, wow, if I, if I work every night this month, I still have I have $3,000, right. Which is great. And as long as I was kind of living like a college kid, right, and didn't have any nice expensive things, it was still drive my old AMC Concord.

00:54:50:52 - 00:55:24:09
Unknown
That's a good car. We was, you know, you know, like, you know you're shopping at target. Not nice. Right. You're you're living you're living there you know. And we were above the, we were above the ramen noodles phase. But I was like wow. I'm if I stay in Seattle, the challenge, the, the challenge for many great musicians that I've known is once you, you have to figure out how to get to the next pay scale so that you can kind of grow up and be a comfortable, happy adult or like, get a house or I have kids, right?

00:55:24:09 - 00:55:43:27
Unknown
And not and not like be struggling like I remember I vividly remember when I bring my car into the shop to get prepared and they're like, oh, you need this, this, this, this and this. And like, okay, which is the one that's most important for right now and which one can I have a month to save up $500 just to knock and get the brakes so difficult.

00:55:43:31 - 00:56:05:28
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And of course in a, in a, in a different way that's still a part of my life figuring out how to juggle expenses and all that stuff. But I remember I remember thinking that, okay, I'm never going to join Soundgarden or Pearl jam, and I'm not going to become the bass professor at University Washington because I'm friends with that guy and he's like one of my mentors, right?

00:56:05:33 - 00:56:25:53
Unknown
And I look up to him, I go to see him play, but I want right when I want to learn about people inspiration to. And I was like, okay, I need to go to a bigger place where music is more of a thing. One. Another little thing that that frustrated me about Seattle is you were either a professional gigging musician or an artistic original musician.

00:56:25:58 - 00:56:40:41
Unknown
And the way a lot of Seattle lights that I knew you were, either you were one or the other, and I was in numerous bands where they're like, okay, you kind of stop this whole freelance musician thing, and we got to rehearse three nights a week. We're gonna be the best band in the city. We're going to freak people out.

00:56:40:41 - 00:56:59:27
Unknown
We're going to get signed, it's going to work. Right? And I was like, I don't want to work at a frame store, right? I don't want to be a barista. No offense to baristas and anyone who has a who chooses to do a more artistic approach with music so that, like, I like because I know a lot of people who are going to like, no, I want to do the music I love and that's it.

00:56:59:32 - 00:57:17:05
Unknown
I don't want to have to play the game of all this other stuff. And then I remember all these other kind of super talented and eclectic freelance musicians that I was playing with and learning from, like, okay, why are you wasting your time with these original rock bands? And like this band thing, like, like just focus on this and then you'll make a better living.

00:57:17:05 - 00:57:40:18
Unknown
You'll build joint, join the union and a big band will do private party to the big band because they get you 50 each. Right. And I was like doing that a little bit and loving it. And I was like, I really want to do both, right? And I, I, I sensed that LA was a big enough music community where you could find people, where I would find people who were like minded, okay.

00:57:40:19 - 00:58:00:55
Unknown
Where you weren't doing like corporate cover music or artistic stuff that won't sell. You could actually marry the two. And because L.A. is such a huge city, right? It's such a history music industry. Right. I'm really glad I moved when I did, and I made the choice, and I convinced my wife to move down with me.

00:58:01:00 - 00:58:20:54
Unknown
Thankfully, she had a good friend who had who was living in L.A.. Okay. Who was it who was an educator? My wife has been to church, who's been education forever. And so I know she so she kind of asked her out and she could get a job starting next September. So we moved down so she could average she.

00:58:20:54 - 00:58:44:56
Unknown
And it was just a funky little apartment that we lived in. But she had a job and I could just start kind of freelancing and working right away. Nice. And I'm really glad I did, like, I didn't I didn't know of Shooter Jennings when I moved, but but I but I, I went to LA with the hope of getting in the scene and meeting someone like Shooter Jennings.

00:58:44:58 - 00:59:04:52
Unknown
Right. So that I could kind of start rising above the, hundred Dollar Man bar gig. Which I, of course, did many of and still do. Right. You know. No, I don't do you ever lose those gigs? I mean, when you you've been talking about the old folks on my smile because I'll go and I'll play those.

00:59:05:03 - 00:59:40:39
Unknown
I look, yeah, I'm an old, you know, because, they keep you, they kind of keep you honest. I don't know it, for lack of a better way of describing it. You're grounded at least, so really, L.A. Kind of, it, looks like it offered you then that opportunity to kind of put on a producers head songwriters hat, and taking the skills that you did head as an entrepreneur, it sounds like that you were able to say, okay, I'm going to turn this into a big business of which I am the product, but the different elements going out.

00:59:40:39 - 01:00:06:23
Unknown
Yeah. And my dad used to love like my dad never well, towards, towards later on he started like he would come to my shows, be like, wow, you really like, you're really getting good at this. Like, you're really artistic and being yourself like this. Nice. But for many years my dad really saw my musical career as. It's great you're a young entrepreneur, and your craft was at.

01:00:06:23 - 01:00:24:04
Unknown
Or the widget you were selling is your music. And he would he maybe wouldn't have used the word widget, but that was the idea is like, you're like, and he looks he was more he had more respect for me because I understood how to make a living. And it's like I never wanted to borrow money from my parents to get help.

01:00:24:04 - 01:00:47:32
Unknown
I was like, I'm gonna find a way to make it work every month and be independent and visit them when I can. And, but but he was like, yeah, your craft, your craft is music, but you're really a business man. Yeah. And I remember sitting there like, you know, when he'd visit me in Seattle or I'd visit them and they're like, you're kind of misunderstanding why I'm doing this, but.

01:00:47:32 - 01:01:17:07
Unknown
Okay, but but if that's how you see it, and but I think that's the. What is it? Yeah. It's a middle class, you know, a middle class business person's perspective of of of the business because they'll never be able to truly understand that, that artistic part of it, you know. And it took him a while for him to figure out, like, there was one time my parents came to visit me when I was playing in Seattle, and they visited for a week, and I had six gigs with six different groups.

01:01:17:11 - 01:01:39:01
Unknown
The last year was my group, and so I was beginning to get into this concept of it wasn't called Americana yet. I was really into, the heart of Saturday night. The great thing about Time Waits, where it's really like for years I thought it was my favorite jazz record. And then I realized over time was like, wow, it's really a singer songwriter record disguised as a jazz record, right?

01:01:39:05 - 01:01:59:39
Unknown
Because he was he had that whole beatnik thing with rainy days and phenomenal jazz players. His early voice, he had a key in the beginning. I mean, I, I love almost all yeah, I'm amazing. And even if I don't love this particular song or that album as much as other ones, he's he's just been so creative and so deep and not afraid to explore.

01:01:59:44 - 01:02:26:54
Unknown
Yeah. And not afraid to be theatrical. No, I mean, I mean, just an amazing, journeyman. I want to wrap up this, this interview and then we're going to, as we like to do, we're going to go more into the creative elements, and, the journeyman aspect of being a musician. And, I want to, we'll, we'll have, Ted play us out with another one of his videos.

01:02:26:59 - 01:02:52:57
Unknown
But, first of all, congratulate I like to say, you know, like you you you took this and you made it happen. And, I also, before we finish this, you kind of touched on it, but I think it's important to kind of, to dig into it a little bit deeper. What was your notion of success slash fame?

01:02:53:01 - 01:03:17:08
Unknown
Did you have a preconceived notion of what you thought you were going to be, or did you go into this wondering what it was going to be like? I think, well, it's an interesting one because there have been a few times like I was not the person who was 22 years old that was that had the whole package.

01:03:17:13 - 01:03:41:46
Unknown
Like no one saw me like the way, the way you could see Kurt Cobain. Right. And be like wow this is just amazing and powerful. And the way Chet Baker was like this 20 year old who somehow managed to do all this. Yeah. And died tragically young too. And, and and so many of the biggest artists that we know had an undeniable thing at a young age.

01:03:41:51 - 01:04:00:48
Unknown
And the record labels somehow find a way to make it all work. And that's how I most, most of our biggest stars started their career as 20 year olds or 22 year olds and discovered, right as a that they get discovered and I and I and I felt like I'm slowly figuring it out and getting better every year.

01:04:00:53 - 01:04:26:27
Unknown
And so I had I had to accept when I was in Seattle and early in LA, like, okay, if I'm going to be writing my original songs and making my music, I want to. I want it to be as good as I can get it, and I'm going to keep on doing it because I, I'm, I'm inspired by the by the, the journey and by trying to make each record in each song better than the last and arrangement and learn about studio and produce more.

01:04:26:32 - 01:04:44:44
Unknown
And I was like, I my mind is a trajectory. That's a long term one. Well, we're going to we're going to delve into this and, we're going to have to play this out. But, I just I think you're going to have to add another business on your website, and that is a lecture series.

01:04:44:49 - 01:05:10:45
Unknown
Because I think I think you should because, you know, there's not too many people that, you know, walk the walk in such a way that they able to to bring it, so that people who are frightened and, unfamiliar, you know, it's it's a, it's a weird odyssey to be a journeyman. Yeah, a musician. So to have somebody like you say, well, this is what happened to me.

01:05:10:50 - 01:05:30:41
Unknown
You know, I think it's a very good thing, but, don't go away, guys, because next week, we're going to be bringing Ted back, and now we're going to get into a little more of the creative side. But I hope you're enjoying this. I certainly am, and I want to thank you. And, let's listen to Ted Russell Camp.

01:05:42:55 - 01:06:09:20
Unknown
I got a hobo nickel I made myself hang it up nice and keep it on a shelf. And one. Yeah. Tell me all I need to know. Attached to it is. It means it's time I got to go. I got an old guitar I like to strum. Now I have a game. So I'm in song. I'm going to shit right now.

01:06:09:25 - 01:06:40:19
Unknown
The corner in the heart of me. When I start to play. People come together. When? He's done I never look back to my was yesterday. So I'm dressed travelin like he's the light for me. If I spend my last dollar and I'll just get it for free I got clean on track when I walk and it moves too slow I use my thumb cause I'm moving along.

01:06:40:24 - 01:07:08:42
Unknown
Yeah. The way I want to go. And it don't come easy. Then it's not the way I'm going to go.

01:07:08:47 - 01:07:36:05
Unknown
I got a backpack. It's hanging from the shoulder. Carry everything I need. When the night gets colder, I'm going to have a compass and a cup of Joe. I got my hometown nickel. And the feeling of the freedom know the wrong. I know it ain't easy. But it's easy to love. Anybody can good at somebody small. Got no destination and no place to be.

01:07:36:16 - 01:08:11:55
Unknown
But it's an open invitation. Well, to travel with me, to be at home. All right. Who I go down, hit your tails. You can live on love, but chase that money down. It goes by so fast. I want to make you know. It goes by so fast around it. Make the most of it. Now you know the. We're all going to the same party in a.

01:08:11:59 - 01:08:16:03
Unknown
Room.

01:08:16:03 - 01:08:33:46
Unknown
Thank you for listening. For more information about this show or a transcript, visit Martin mccormack.com while there. Sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung Out.

01:08:33:51 - 01:08:46:38
Unknown
It's so strong. Spain, we feel, makes no sense at all. The swan song wasn't part of the deal, was no good. All giving no choice. Giving us a.