Strung Out Episode 247: THE CREATIVE MIND OF TED RUSSELL KAMP.

Ted Russell Kamp is a sing-songwriter, based in Los Angeles.  He also produces many acts and is a one-man powerhouse in the Americana music scene. In this second interview, Martin talks to Ted about his song crafting, advice for those new to the independent music business and some sage advice about how to keep afloat and your wits about you in one of the most challenging, but rewarding gigs out there.  His website www.tedrussellkamp.com.

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:14:44
Unknown
Welcome to Strung Out, the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist. Your host is the artist, writer and musician Martin Lawrence McCormack. Now here's Marty.

00:00:27:06 - 00:00:52:05
Unknown
A piece of paper. Chair. A desk in a pen. Another 40 watt morning. And a chance to begin again. Another empty page today. Another search for something. Say. But it's the life I chose. And I'm going to find my way.

00:00:52:09 - 00:01:28:26
Unknown
One word at a time. One word at a time. Nobody knows. Inch by inch and line by line. Me and the beat. Trying to meet halfway. Maybe get to the truth by the end of the day. They might. We were into.

00:01:28:31 - 00:02:05:00
Unknown
Four walls, A window. Ceiling and floor. But these lines I write of the best way. And don't. You. I'm all stuck inside. I take a picture in my mind. And I'm a step closer to what I'm hoping to find. I get one word at a time. One word at a time. God knows. Inch by inch and line by line.

00:02:05:04 - 00:02:18:11
Unknown
Be on the page. Trying to me. If we get the truth. By the end of the day. Midnight. We were at time.

00:02:18:16 - 00:02:30:35
Unknown
These crazy dreams I had last night. And that list of bills to pay. I've been on standing in my way.

00:02:30:40 - 00:03:00:29
Unknown
But I got too much on my mind. And I still got nothing to say. Can't I make my way into.

00:03:00:34 - 00:03:05:40
Unknown
New.

00:03:05:45 - 00:03:38:48
Unknown
Now. One foot at a time. One word at a time. No. Five notes. Inch by inch and line by line. Begin each. Try to meet halfway. Let me get to the truth. By the end of the day. Make my way. You heard it a day. Go to make my weary one word. Out of time. To make my way E.

00:03:38:53 - 00:03:48:03
Unknown
One at a time.

00:03:48:03 - 00:04:23:38
Unknown
Hey, great to have you with us. And I am with Ted Russell Camp and Ted is based out of Los Angeles and, singer, songwriter, producer, journeyman. You have your own band stash I saw on the web site, that you're in, but you're also working still as a sideman, getting into a lot what you see in front of you right now, is it, or listening to is a good representation of, how you, succeed in the independent world of music?

00:04:23:43 - 00:04:45:54
Unknown
In the last, interview, we kind of touched on it. You know, there's those people that that 1% that get discovered, and the next thing you know, they're they're in the industry in a band and, you know, they haven't had to fight their way up the, the, the salmon ladder to get to the spawning grounds. You are fighting salmon, my friend.

00:04:45:59 - 00:05:13:26
Unknown
Haha. So tell us a little bit about, your, first of all, let's get into, before we get into the nuts and bolts, entrepreneur side, let's talk about your songwriting. When did you start crafting songs? You know, those of you, you've gotta listen to the last, interview to kind of get Ted's background, but, where where were you?

00:05:13:28 - 00:05:48:03
Unknown
You know, when you were like, okay, I'm going to start writing. And I like the fact that you were an English major and a philosopher. Yeah, yeah, you had that double, you know, so you kind of. You already, steeped in, in storytelling and songwriting iteration. Yeah. So go ahead and tell our listeners. Good. That's great. Well, I will say, you know, I started out as a trumpet player and then bass player, and I was just kind of joining lots of different bands and playing in school bands and orchestras and pit orchestras.

00:05:48:08 - 00:06:11:47
Unknown
I, I, I really had the desire to start writing music in high school and I was and doing original songs with my bands was kind of important to me. Yeah. Now my lyrics were very one dimensional and very simple and like just like I love you, babe. Pop lyrics I mean, and I and I, and I vividly remember having the feeling of you just kind of come up with some words because.

00:06:11:52 - 00:06:31:08
Unknown
Because something has to sing the melody, you know? I mean, I love it, something else to sing the melody. I was like, okay, you gotta just make up some words. And then as long as they rhyme, yeah, you know, but it was much more about the music, and the melody and the phrasing and like, like I loved Fishbone was made from that.

00:06:31:08 - 00:06:57:03
Unknown
Still around x ray. Wonderfully, but, I remember how, like, getting into their songs when I was 13 and 14 and 15 and, like, oh, so you come up with a little horn riff, then you have a verse, then you have a chorus, then you have you repeat the little horn riff from the beginning, and then you have another verse and then another chorus, you know, like I started understanding arrangement, pop song arrangement and kind of interesting and oh, wow, what is that?

00:06:57:08 - 00:07:14:00
Unknown
Did you just really cool keychains on this. Oh we could, we could do that in one of our songs or like I mentioned R.E.M. earlier. One of the, one of the things I always loved about R.E.M. is Mike Mills who was the bass player, and harmony singer. Like, he would often sing the most hokey part of the song, right?

00:07:14:00 - 00:07:38:40
Unknown
Which was the background vocal. And that's and a lot of Motown does that as well. That's very true. While the lead singer can improvise, it's the backup singers because he gets in in the street, you know what I mean? That's true. And, you know, I mean, I just have to quip that the best part of R.E.M. was that in the early albums, you couldn't understand what the hell you know, Michael Stipe was singing.

00:07:38:40 - 00:08:04:36
Unknown
He was so artistic and quirky and. Yeah, and even if you didn't understand the lyrics, it was great. It was like Dylan, you know? Yeah. No, it was, you know, but then. But then when I was in my early mid-twenties, I discovered I was getting into Tom waits. I was playing a lot of jazz. I was getting into, like, George and IRA Gershwin and Cole Porter and, like, these jazz, these jazz tunes that are the The Great American Songbook, right.

00:08:04:37 - 00:08:31:42
Unknown
And there and very, in terms of lyrical and or poetic, this times have evolved. And so you hear, you know, like, come fly with me or How High the Moon and it's like they're maybe, okay, maybe Dylan and Joni Mitchell, we've gotten to another level of lyrical, personal complexity, but I love those songs, and I really started thinking about the words and how they.

00:08:31:43 - 00:08:59:21
Unknown
If I'm getting into Bill Evans, the piano player, how he's phrasing without without hearing lyrics, he's playing the melody with the piano. And then you could go hear Ella Fitzgerald do the same song, right? And you could go hear Mel Torme do the same song or whatever it was. And then it was discovering the band. I had already, like Jackson Browne was one of my favorites from when I was in high school.

00:08:59:21 - 00:09:20:33
Unknown
He was even, I saw him live at Radio City Music Hall. Oh, wonderful. Yeah. Cool. He flipped me out. I was a big fan of Pink Floyd, so a lot of bands that had, heavier concepts and, you know, and and so in it was in my late 20s when I got more serious about songwriting. Okay.

00:09:20:37 - 00:09:47:22
Unknown
And having it be like a personal, deep, wanting, wanting to have more serious subject matter in my songs rather than just like, I just got to sing something so that the melody gets heard right? And yeah, I absolutely, you know that, you talking about Jackson Browne just reminded me of, the Eagles documentary. I don't know if you've seen that, but he goes to you because the, I think it's,

00:09:47:27 - 00:10:14:34
Unknown
I wanted to say, as Glenn Frey was talking about Jackson Browne living above him. Yes. You know, and you hear, hear, you know, Jackson Browne working on the piano. And then he would make, you know, working on the same melodic, you know, you know, lyric bit and then, you know, make a cup of tea, come back and, you know, what I remember that now was like, how Jackson Browne could work in a very specific way, right?

00:10:14:47 - 00:10:31:38
Unknown
For hours to make this thing subtly better and craft it differently and try it this way and take a break and be humming it to himself in the kitchen while he's making tea, and then come back and say, well, he just made that verse better. And here he is. I thought it was just great that he was listening, you know, he did.

00:10:31:43 - 00:10:58:22
Unknown
You know, Jackson Browne had no idea he was, you know, somebody was picking up on his song crafting. But, if we were to walk into your house and, listen to you working on a song, what does it sound or look like? Oh. Good question. I will often, sometimes the music comes first. Sometimes the lyrics come first.

00:10:58:27 - 00:11:26:12
Unknown
Sometimes I'll discover a new artist or read discover an old song that I love. Yeah. Like, here's a good example. There's a, there's a song that's going to be on my next record, called Iron Horizon. And, you know, like I often and wonderfully touring around the country or the world and or more glamorous shows and it's more cool and exciting, but but when I'm at home in LA, I'd rather keep playing.

00:11:26:26 - 00:11:51:41
Unknown
Sure. So I'll do 100 bar gigs. Or there's 2 or 3 great groups of people I know where we'll do, like it'll be someone's private party or corporate event, and it's five really talented musicians and they send you the set list and it's like Eagles tunes and Jackson Browne tunes and Buck Owens tunes and, maybe a Creedence Clearwater tune or like, a season top.

00:11:51:42 - 00:12:10:43
Unknown
Yeah, that'll be like classic rock. Okay. And and a little more old school. Classic country. Okay. Right. You know, maybe we'll do an Allen Jackson song or something like that, which is good, but but they're great, and I and I get to, you know, like, listen to or relearn the songs. I already have most of the charts from other gigs I've done over the years, you know.

00:12:10:47 - 00:12:16:23
Unknown
So we show up and we play,

00:12:16:27 - 00:12:38:40
Unknown
And, it's great to kind of get deeper into what's great about these different pieces of music. Do and kind of I can study the songs and get into them on a deeper way as a, as a fan. So as a fan of that kind of music and taking that music and, it's in the back of your mind.

00:12:38:40 - 00:12:59:42
Unknown
And when you sit down, I like what you said. Sometimes it's the music, sometimes it's the lyrics, but with the lyrics. How do you physically go about, crafting? Are you are you a person that, are you a journaling kind of human being? Are you all right with the. I don't I don't journal that much.

00:12:59:51 - 00:13:24:31
Unknown
Sometimes it's pen and paper and sometimes it's on my computer. Okay. That I've got, like, dozens of little half written songs and pages on my computer. Okay. And so every once in a while, I'll revisit them. I will often conceive most of the music in my head early on in the writing of the song. Oh well, and then I it's about filling in the blanks on the lyrics, okay?

00:13:24:33 - 00:13:47:14
Unknown
And realizing what I want this to say. I'm a big I'm a big believer in crafting the song and taking time editing. Yeah. And so I will. I will often try to and I think a lot of people who don't write enough music and wish they could write more, I think it's because we're all so self-critical, because you write a lyric, you're like, oh, that's that's lame, that's boring.

00:13:47:28 - 00:14:05:35
Unknown
It's like, oh, I actually just stole that from another song, right? I don't want to just say, I love you, babe again or like, like it's raining, you know, like like how many great songs about rain and waiting for the phone and sorry, like, now I'm at the bar, and that's important while you're when you're back in L.A., you're doing those those gigs.

00:14:05:40 - 00:14:25:59
Unknown
Not only are you keeping your your chops good, but you. It sounds to me like you might have an opportunity to test out material in the live environment, which is so important as opposed to, like. Yes, honey, can you, you know. Oh, spaghetti. I'm gonna go. Yeah. I'll get home. I'll literally stop and play my wife's new songs.

00:14:25:59 - 00:14:44:29
Unknown
Yeah. When she gets home from work and stuff like that. But, like, like, I'll be out, like having done X amount of these other gigs and it some Tulsa time. I don William Gray Sampson did a version. Yeah. Well I realized after a while every time I play this song in any gig I love it.

00:14:44:34 - 00:15:06:58
Unknown
Yeah. You know what I mean. Yeah. And again you like for those of you who don't know, it was a song that's like it's almost like a disco country tune. Yeah. Is it? Don't go long. But yeah, it's musically very simple. Just two core jam, cool riff. But there's a driving groove to it. I was like, I got to write a song that does that.

00:15:07:03 - 00:15:29:45
Unknown
It's just big, that quarter notes. Nice. And so I had that song in my head, and then I came up with this idea, and it was like a penguin that was changing enough so that the groove is not exactly the same. And actually there's a few different musical sections. So you may, you know, when you hear the final recording, you may be like, oh, that, that's a little bit Tulsa Time vibe, but I'm not.

00:15:29:49 - 00:15:53:35
Unknown
I'm not just like writing the lyrics and stealing the song. No, but I'm just I'm stealing the rhythm and the energy which I, which I really relate to. And I think that's a really good songwriting point to bring up, you know, the taking the, the vibe of a song is done all the time. You know, that's that's important because how else are you influenced?

00:15:53:35 - 00:16:23:03
Unknown
You love these songs and that's going to, you know, you're going to turn around, you're going to put a twist on it. And, you know, where where it gets kind of weird is if you pick up lyrics and you know, they're exactly what John Lennon wrote, you know, then, you know, not good. But, yeah, but you know, that's, that's a great thing with, you know, getting the melody influenced, you know, just you have a little germ of an idea based on what Don Williams had.

00:16:23:03 - 00:16:46:44
Unknown
And then, you know, coming up with this then are you and the lyrics is that you told me like, you're kind of a melody, man. First it's. Yeah, but but then also when I'm coming up with lyrics, I often just hear the melody. I hear the way. Yeah, well, I mean, and often the melody will change because, oh, it works better if I have this extra longer phrase with a few extra syllables at the end.

00:16:46:49 - 00:17:07:51
Unknown
Let me ask you this. And I, always love to ask this question. Is there a Ted Russell camp radio going on all the time in your head of melodies, or are you, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, often, it's often it's like an old favorite song that's playing. Right. But there's, there's a little bit of music.

00:17:07:51 - 00:17:42:35
Unknown
Yeah. It was percolating. There's always music a lot. In fact, one of the things that bums my wife out a little bit, is when there's music on in the background, I automatically get distracted. Like I automatically start trying to figure out the song or appreciate the song, or like, if you're somewhere where, you know, like, if I'm in the supermarket and I'll be like, oh, I remember that song, and I have to leave because my wife, like, like hates me going shopping with her because, I mean, not only the distraction of the music, but like, I'll, I'll stand in front of the fruit thing and I'll be like, you know, there's

00:17:42:48 - 00:18:03:20
Unknown
a lot of colors and variety here, you know? But I mean, there is so. And not only that, like, you'll, you'll, you'll see where the speakers are and you'll stand in front of the cottage cheese, because that's where the best sound is with the speakers right above you. So you know, well, you get you're getting some really good pointers on how to also shop.

00:18:03:25 - 00:18:22:51
Unknown
They should be, marketing that, you know. No. But like, if there's if, if there's a song that's in the background that I either can't hear very well, I'm automatically focusing on that. You're trying to figure out what it is or figure it out. If if there's a brand, if there's a newer pop song. Yeah, that sounds like another song.

00:18:22:56 - 00:18:48:19
Unknown
I'll start thinking about the Bill Withers tune that it sounds like you know what I mean. Or I'll or, I'll start or I'll start thinking about, oh, this is this is, you know, this this song is not for me. This song was written for a different audience. You know what I mean? Sure. Like when I hear Taylor Swift's music, she's so good and so talented, but but but she's writing for a different demographic.

00:18:48:19 - 00:19:11:23
Unknown
She's not writing for me, you know. Sure. If you know, if she doesn't care if I don't like it. Well, there's other there are millions of other people who are getting it, I hope. I hope you find this Taylor. And reach out to Ted. But but but I can, but I can still enjoy that music and see what she and her producers are doing and your own choices they're making.

00:19:11:24 - 00:19:35:45
Unknown
And you're like, oh, this is what this is. This is this is how pop music is evolving. And this is, you know, like, this is what this is the this is the amount of autotune. This is the amount of repetition, this kind of beat and kind of chord progression, which is very popular now. And so it's like I start, I start learning about it and thinking about it, and it, it, it distracts me.

00:19:35:45 - 00:20:03:34
Unknown
I mean, of course we get good at multitasking. One of the one of the great one of the one of the very necessary things to think to be a good musician is selective listening. Yes. You've got to focus on the important stuff and not focus as much on the other stuff. Yeah. Like if like, you know, like if I'm in a band and the drummer is great, the guitarist is great too, but they rush the other, the keyboard player is great, but their timing is a little.

00:20:03:34 - 00:20:34:46
Unknown
They're rushing and dragging depending on what they're doing. Well, then it's my job to fit in between everyone to help it sound great. So I have to. I have to hear what the other guys are doing to get the musical input for feel and chords and stuff, but I have to be like, somehow I need to separate my brain or just the way I experience music to really lock in with that drummer so that we can provide this red carpet so that the other guys are rhythmically wishy washy, then it we all still sound like a band.

00:20:34:46 - 00:20:58:28
Unknown
Well, we better get into a break here because we're tied is going is into the land of the bass. Oh and based not songwriting, right. But that's good because I think it's a perfect segue way because, you're describing bass playing and why, what makes bass playing so important? For an ensemble. But let's play before we go do can I say another songwriting thing?

00:20:58:28 - 00:21:23:07
Unknown
Sure. One of the things that I love doing. Is revisiting my lyrics to slowly make them better. Okay. You know, like, I'll, I'll definitely have a I'll, I'll allow myself a phase where I'm like, I'm going to write whatever I can down. I'm going to make it rhyme as often as I can and set the melodic patterns that I'm already hearing feeling okay.

00:21:23:12 - 00:21:42:59
Unknown
But if the lyrics are not perfect or it's a little too trite and obvious, I'll let it slide, okay? Because I want to be in this creative zone and not critically stop the song from happening. Right? But then and then I'll I'll put it away for a while, okay? And then I'll come back and be like, how can I make this line better?

00:21:43:13 - 00:22:01:23
Unknown
How can I make this line better? Can I rearrange them so that so that these kind of random couplets. Ooh, if you put this one here, it feels like a four line story is happening. Right? Rather than it's just two lines that are unrelated. Well, before we go, before we take the break, I just a quick question.

00:22:01:28 - 00:22:24:53
Unknown
It any songs on any of your previous so you look at and you go, oh, man, you know, I, I sing that differently now. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, I love, I love, I love changing the music over time. Lyrically, sometimes I just discover a better lyric, years. And so I'll just sing that one line differently.

00:22:25:03 - 00:22:44:17
Unknown
Yeah. Oh, over the top. I guess sometimes I'll change the phrasing. I've had, I've had, I've had moments when I, want my music to be I, I'm, it's, I want to express myself in a little more bluesy or way. Right. So I'll do more blues sounding singing and then other days and other years I'll be like, you know what?

00:22:44:18 - 00:23:16:05
Unknown
That's not as important to me. I think the soul, the soul and honesty comes through. I don't have to try to sing blues scales. And then it gets a little more conversational. Yeah. I, I like, I like letting songs evolve. I think that's important. It's a great point again, because, don't rush them, you know, don't don't feel like you have to churn them out unless you are in that camp where you're you're saying, I'm going to do a two minute song and I'm going to do it in a day?

00:23:16:09 - 00:23:31:26
Unknown
I mean, that's that's pushing yourself in a different direction. But what we're talking about is song crafting. And, let's take a little break because we've got a lot more to talk about with Ted Russell Camp. You are on strong out.

00:23:41:50 - 00:23:59:23
Unknown
No more looking back, no more where? Rambler. I'm all smiles making brand news.

00:23:59:27 - 00:24:16:47
Unknown
You see? Yeah. It'd be okay. You kissed my cheek and look away with. Well, maybe it's only a broken heart. And.

00:24:16:52 - 00:25:09:00
Unknown
It's no use trying to understand what's in somebody's heart. You and me were meant to be. You'd see your chair in me. People. Try moving on. Sometimes I'm gettin stronger. Cause I know it's only a broken heart.

00:25:09:05 - 00:25:26:25
Unknown
Well, I bet I don't need your will. I tried so hard to change the way I feel I fell hard. Yes, I played my poor.

00:25:26:29 - 00:25:43:57
Unknown
Call me a fool I must confess. Just a little bad luck, I guess. Cause I know it's only a broken arm.

00:25:44:01 - 00:26:28:36
Unknown
No use trying to understand what's in somebody's head. If you and me were meant to be. You'd be right here instead. Oh, no more looking back and no more. Red and black. Cause I know it's only a broken heart. I know it's only a broken heart. I know it's only a broken heart.

00:26:28:36 - 00:26:52:15
Unknown
Hey. Want to show your support of Martin's artist endeavors? Buy Me a Coffee is an online site that makes supporting Marty easy. In just a few tabs, you can make a payment of any amount and no account is needed. You can also decide to become an ongoing supporter. Go to Martin mccormack.com and click on the words support. Mark.

00:26:52:20 - 00:27:00:20
Unknown
Let's help Martin keep it all caffeinated.

00:27:00:20 - 00:27:30:06
Unknown
We're back with Ted Russell Camp, Americana musician, entrepreneur. Working out of LA, networking. You name it. You're seeing his website, of course, during the, video podcast, but also it's there on the notes, and you should check it out because, he's doing a lot of different things, and it's just a good study in and of itself, looking at what you've done with your, you know, on the website.

00:27:30:06 - 00:28:04:33
Unknown
Here's what I do. Here's what I do. I like how you even, described yourself as a songwriter and, you're, talking about things in a very, descriptive way of your talents. And, so kudos on that. Let's get into bass playing, because you, mentioned something that I think that a lot of people who are bass players, understand and right away and that is it is the role of the bass player to be as they sing and Spinal Tap, the lukewarm water.

00:28:04:37 - 00:28:32:15
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. Because, you're holding you're holding together, especially an ensemble. You're holding together the rhythm. But you're also, supporting the rhythm, and you're also making exceptions for those that, are either pushing or dragging the rhythm. It's a funny thing to be a bass player, and and I like, I've been in bands where it's like everyone is just locked in is wonderful.

00:28:32:15 - 00:28:50:13
Unknown
Yeah, I've been in I've been in bands where I don't know how it happens, but the drummer is somehow just feeling the beat slightly rushed. Compared to where I feel it or dragged because they want to be laid back and sexy, hard rock in a different way. And then I have to meet them where they are.

00:28:50:18 - 00:29:14:42
Unknown
Right. And, and often that's a conscious thing. They're like wow, I gotta lay back on this one. Or if something, if it's a particular kind of genre of music. Right. And then you, you gradually or I'll, I'll say I'll gradually kind of figure it out. So I stop having to worry about it, you know, like there's one great, one fabulous drummer in L.A., but he's always so behind the beat from where I'm feeling it.

00:29:14:47 - 00:29:34:36
Unknown
And but now that we've done a handful of recording sessions, I now can just sync and write with it because you figure it out. We're where? Yeah, I rock it is. Yeah. I remember having the feeling of like, wow, the drummers behind the beat, the guitarist ahead of the beat. I need to find a way to be halfway in between them both.

00:29:34:41 - 00:29:55:17
Unknown
So they all sound good together. It doesn't sound like this guy's rushing, this guy dragging. It's my job. And that's simply in terms of like, how like how rushed you talk about on the beat. Like, if you ever play along with a metronome, the idea has to be exactly on it. In is in this very mechanical, perfect way.

00:29:55:22 - 00:30:23:32
Unknown
And when you listen to a lot of dance music or like disco is a great example, when you have like five musicians emulating the sound of electronics, or can a great German band that would do that all the time. Well, that was their thing. You really have to choose. And then it's like. Like if I'm doing that kind of a song one minute and then ten minutes later, like, oh, this is kind of a reggae thing was like, okay, change my tone, get warm and fat and lay back, okay?

00:30:23:32 - 00:30:51:57
Unknown
Now we're going to do a kind of a Ramones style Green Day, right? And I'm like, okay, get out to pick, adjust the tone. Got some more travel happening. Get ready to sit on top of it. So the music has an urgency. Right? Clash. Right. You know, and and wearing, wearing many hats and studying many things so that you can kind of do the right thing at the right time is really it's really cool and an inspiring and a challenge of being a bass player.

00:30:52:02 - 00:31:15:14
Unknown
I think not only wearing those kind of, hats, but you're limited if you're playing a four string bass, you know, only so many notes. You I mean, you're exposed much more than a drummer or a keyboardist or a guitarist. And so if you make a mistake, you're going to be heard. You know, there's this there.

00:31:15:14 - 00:31:46:13
Unknown
Yeah. Me there. And that's, that's why, you use the word critical listener, words, critical listening and as a good musician, whether you're a guitarist or whatever, critical listening is finding that, that middle, that essence that the band should be in all the time. Like you said, there's some bands that are so in sync. They they just kind of know each other is that symbiotic kind of thing.

00:31:46:13 - 00:32:05:23
Unknown
And when we hear about how that first Black Sabbath record was recorded in one day. Yeah, then you're like, okay, well, they had rehearsed a lot. They had played a lot. They just had to get the right performance down. They weren't arranging and rearranging and trying things in different keys, and let's double this and change that. They had that already worked out.

00:32:05:28 - 00:32:41:05
Unknown
Plus they probably didn't have the budget. I mean, oh no. And the first those first Beatle sessions you hear about where it's like three hours and they have to record most of a record in one day. Yeah. Well, what they they had already arranged it all. Yeah. You know, and then when you hear about, you know, Pink Floyd or Metallica or certain bands that are in the studio for years working that one record, well, because they're experimenting and trying and, and slowly refining and figuring out what, what the songs need to be on and off and recording many more songs than you actually need because they want to choose the best ones.

00:32:41:10 - 00:33:15:13
Unknown
Like I'll often do that when I'm like, when I rarely will. I just record a whole record at once, a fact I I've only really I've only I only did that with my, my first two albums, all of the other ones, since I will either be on the road or be home and I'll have like, okay, I got 4 or 5 songs I want to record and do, and then I'll and then I'll get a band together recorded for a day, and then I'll bring it back to my home studio and then, like, releasing the vocals and some harmonies and some Hammond organ.

00:33:15:18 - 00:33:43:00
Unknown
Like, I still play trumpet. Nice. So, so if I feel like, well, I got a couple songs I really want to have these kind of like stacks, Muscle Shoals kind of organs. Then I'll practice trumpet and trombone for a month to get my chops so that I can play for more than five minutes at a time, and then I'll record the tunes and I'll like be listening to Otis Redding tunes and what I love about how certain horns move so that I can then do that on my tunes.

00:33:43:05 - 00:34:01:21
Unknown
One thing that somebody, told me about you is that you will play a show with just you singing with your bass. Is that true? Yeah. Tell us a little bit about that, because I think that sounds so cool. Oh, yeah. So? So, when I play with a band, I will sing and play bass. So I love doing that.

00:34:01:21 - 00:34:25:55
Unknown
And that's like the way, like being able to play the bass in my own way. Help steer the rhythm and the feel in a way that I really like, I really like I love Paul McCartney's bass playing, Jamieson's bass playing, John Paul Jones, Carl Ray, whole all of these very melodic bass players. And I want it to have a certain funkiness to it without being funk.

00:34:26:00 - 00:34:58:04
Unknown
James Brown grooves, you know. Yeah. Parliament-Funkadelic grooves. But when I play country music, I want it to kind of be in between the black side and the white side of the tracks. I really like that, approach. And so, I very quickly learned, even though most, most singer songwriters would like to play guitar and have the bass player and the drummer and the other guys behind them, I realized, wow, I can really steer the ship and make the music sound more like me when I'm playing the bass.

00:34:58:09 - 00:35:24:53
Unknown
Yeah, so I'll sing and play bass. So, for many years when I would tour, I would bring an acoustic guitar and an electric bass. Depending on the gig, I could do my solo gigs on acoustic or my electric right. My electric bass. But I can hire a band that night. And then there was one gig. There was like, no, what it was, it was in, Lexington, Kentucky.

00:35:24:58 - 00:35:43:54
Unknown
Okay. And I was playing it was like I was the opening act for a friend of mine, and it was like a weird stormy night. And there are literally like six people there. And four of us were the musicians playing and, and, and so I'm playing my set, and it's like my three friends and the woman who owns the place in the front row.

00:35:43:59 - 00:36:00:45
Unknown
And I was like. And my bassist said, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna try something play bass on this one. So I pulled it out and I played it. I was like, wow, that sounds really cool. There's an intimate spaciousness to it. Most people that will do a solo bass thing, it's kind of all about the bass technique and, flamboyance.

00:36:00:53 - 00:36:22:56
Unknown
Like if you, not to diminish guys like Victor Wooten and Les Claypool, but, like, the technique is so powerful. You're just gonna go, oh, I didn't even know that's possible. Right? You know, that's not that's not what's exciting to me about that. It's the space and intimacy that it creates. Right? And I'm a good guitarist, but I'm not like one of those guys.

00:36:22:56 - 00:36:41:18
Unknown
I can get up on stage. And I don't think that that is unbelievable. Right. You know, and so I like switching over to the bass. And I've got maybe 8 or 10 songs that I do. Right. Well, I never arranged. Well, I hope you send us along one of those. Oh, sure. Because, I think that'd be great to hear.

00:36:41:18 - 00:37:02:09
Unknown
And I'm gonna I'm gonna borrow that idea because I think, Oh, please do it. Because the idea of, like, Kevin, I think so much of live music is allowing the listener to to put in their own arrangements to, you know, and so, yeah, I think that what you imply. Yeah. Like, and the debate like, it's brilliant, but you don't work well that way.

00:37:02:14 - 00:37:30:51
Unknown
But if the bass part is melodic enough or there's enough of a lack of, counterplay or, like counter melodic stuff happening between the vocal and the bass part, that it really works great and it's awesome. It's it like I've definitely been part of like songwriter nights. And when people are hearing acoustic guitar, even if they're wonderfully talented, people are like, after after an hour and a half, if I pull out the bass, like, it's just a sonically different thing.

00:37:30:51 - 00:37:49:42
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, we've like, I've never seen that. And it's it's kind of amazing that like, sting never recorded just bass. No, McCartney never recorded just bass and vocals. And so it's like it's become one of the special things that I do. That's great. And then when it when you, when you do it well, people go like, wow, that was like I didn't miss that.

00:37:49:42 - 00:38:10:39
Unknown
There's no other instrument, right? I just completely have an arrangement. And and often that's the that's one of the most memorable moments of the show when I do that. And it it also a great lesson to take from that. That story is never underestimate a gig that you think is going nowhere because it's going to go somewhere. You know?

00:38:10:39 - 00:38:33:09
Unknown
I mean, that gig in Lexington with, you know, I love it, you know, six people and four of them were the band. That's that's, you know, there's a lyric, but, you know, that's a that's where, you know, the eureka moments struck. So keep that in mind. We're getting close to the end of this podcast, but I just I want to touch on your the many other hats, that you wear.

00:38:33:09 - 00:39:02:39
Unknown
Great. You you are a producer. Then you're producing a lot of different artists now, right? So how did you get into that? I've produced pretty much all of my records, and I've probably produced 30 other records for other artists. Some of some of their relationships started by me being their bass player. Now I sometimes when you're someone's bass player, they really want you to just play the record, or play along.

00:39:02:42 - 00:39:26:09
Unknown
They don't want your artistic input. They want you to just support because they've already figured it all out. Right? Or they figured enough of it out that they are. They're happy. They just want you to be supportive, right? In some cases, artists or bands want you to be adding input, right. So usually I'll try to gauge which of those two it is.

00:39:26:14 - 00:39:39:15
Unknown
You know, like if they if they've got a brand new record and you know, that they've worked on it for a year and a half and you play the CD release or the album release party with them, okay, they're not going to want me to rewrite anything. They're they they've worked hard to make it what they want it to be, you know?

00:39:39:20 - 00:40:00:50
Unknown
Right. But, you know, often if we're doing in a rehearsal or it's like you're there, they have a new tune or you do a thing and one guy like, just I don't I don't like the way that ended. And then I can come up with, well, hey, why don't we make the make it vamp for a while and repeat these chords, or let's have a bigger solo or hey, this is going to be the seventh song in the set.

00:40:00:55 - 00:40:22:53
Unknown
It's time for a big old guitar solo. Yeah, if the guitarist is that kind of player. Right? I mean, absolute wah. Or hey, that's a that sounds a little bombastic. And I'll say to the drummer, maybe I would say, hey, dude, you're playing to my basically. But I will say, hey, you know what this is? This feels like a mellower, more intimate subject matter.

00:40:22:58 - 00:40:40:50
Unknown
Maybe we don't come out of the gate so big and powerful. Let's start with just guitar and piano, and then I'll come in halfway through that verse, and then you come in at the beginning of chords, and then the drums come in soft, and then by the end of Iraq, it's kind of fun to wear the producer hat.

00:40:40:50 - 00:41:02:39
Unknown
Yeah. And do you find it more satisfying than, being, in a getting band or, writing songs? I it's not it's not more satisfying. I love all of these roles. Okay. But but in terms of, like, being a being the bass player, like, I'll often make enough comments that that the artist is like, oh my God, every time Ted makes a comment, I like it, I relate to it.

00:41:02:39 - 00:41:21:39
Unknown
And then we sound better. Yeah. And then six months later they say, hey, will you produce our next recording session? We produce an album. Sometimes it's people who are fans of my music. That will just call me out of the blue. Or a friend of mine I've known for a long time, like, yeah, I love your new album and I love your approach.

00:41:21:39 - 00:41:47:33
Unknown
It's very organic, but very musical and sophisticated enough without being artsy or too artsy. Will you produce a record? So now I'm getting I'm getting a lot of calls to produce, from people who kind of know my track record or seen me play. And, you know, when the hard thing about in terms of having all the hats off, I'm the bass player, sometimes it's touring, sometimes it's recording sessions.

00:41:47:38 - 00:42:10:59
Unknown
If I'm a producer, sometimes I'm playing bass on it, or I'm also adding keyboards and banjos or whatever. And sometimes I'm a singer, songwriter and bandleader kind of getting my own music out there. I really love doing all of them. And when one of what I'm doing one too much, I kind of get frustrated. Sure.

00:42:11:04 - 00:42:36:47
Unknown
Like, they were like, I started working with Shooter Jennings. In just end of 2003. And then we recorded the first record that he did in 2004 that came out in early 2005. And so we started touring, I very quickly realized, part of the magic of being in a great band. And that was a four piece band, right?

00:42:36:49 - 00:43:01:26
Unknown
Yeah. Is we all add our influences and do our own thing, and, and then it sounds like a unique thing that that's different than any other four human beings in this world, right. You know? Well, yeah, I but I also realized, hey, there are certain things I'm into that the other guys are not into, and this and the sound of this band is being is going in this direction.

00:43:01:30 - 00:43:24:44
Unknown
So I, so I, so my next solo records were like, let's do the other things that the guys in the band with shooter don't relate to as much, so I can get my satisfaction and my fascination out is that the band stash, then, you know, stash came later. Okay, okay, so these were solo records of God. Okay. So your solo album there was great.

00:43:24:44 - 00:43:48:20
Unknown
Like there was one record at a second shoot, a record we were really like, the drummer was a powerhouse. I was the guitar player, actually. And so we kind of evolved more into this kind of like very loud, psychedelic Zeppelin thing mixed with the roots music. Interesting. Yeah. And so my solo record that year was I was like, it's like instead of adding Hammond organ, I'm adding accordion.

00:43:48:25 - 00:44:11:10
Unknown
Yeah. Instead of adding a lead guitar, I'm adding mandolin. So I let myself get funkier in a way, add more acoustic on my album, because all of the all of that, that rock bravado and like, keeping a musical balance for was because that's what we were doing with shooter. And I was loving it. And I was like, I don't want to bring in a new folk song and hope they like it.

00:44:11:15 - 00:44:30:34
Unknown
I want to do that folk song here, and then I can support the shooter world in the best way I can, still bringing my eclectic thing to it, but kind of figuring out what works where. And so a lot of like, there was I realized at some point early at like with the shooter stuff, like, I really love Jamie Jamerson.

00:44:30:35 - 00:44:52:18
Unknown
I'm a lot of bass playing and how that that in that informed John Paul Jones and so much great rock bass playing. But I kind of realized after a while, wow, I'm the only guy in the band that really loves soul music like the other guys. And yes, you know, if if Sam and Dave or Stevie Wonder came on, they'd be like, oh, this is great music, right?

00:44:52:18 - 00:45:24:51
Unknown
But open and wonderful eclectic musicians. But I realized, wow, I don't want to cram soul music into this band. I want to let I want to let everyone be more comfortable. Oh, that's a good piece of advice for, you know, people that when you're working with bandmates and knowing what their styles are and, and accepting it, and if you can't find that, you know, if there's if that sound isn't what you're looking for, you know, try it, try another side project or do something.

00:45:24:52 - 00:45:43:08
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. So my next album had a lot of horns and it was more like soul grooves, because that's that's when I was kind of into that. I appreciate that. So I pretty much did it like be a part of this team in a really effective and powerful and also still creative way. But I could kind of do this stuff rather than force it on them.

00:45:43:10 - 00:46:10:22
Unknown
Yeah. You know, and that's not that. I would like to say. Sure. One of the best things about Los Angeles is how many musicians there are and how many studios and writers, and you can find like minded people who are going to explore what you want. It's a, like if I'm playing with someone and it's like, well, you know, playing old school country music was more inspiring to me a few years ago than it is now.

00:46:10:26 - 00:46:29:29
Unknown
I want a guy who's that a little more of my Campbell time pettiness in him. Or I want a guy who who's a little blues here. And has a as a, as a laid back swagger to the way they play. Okay. Well then I can, then I can book a gig next month and not hire like more honky tonk influenced friend.

00:46:29:34 - 00:46:49:02
Unknown
I can hire this other guy to play guitar with me. Right. And then begin a new friendship, have a new, or at least have it be an experiment. And then I realize, oh, wait, I actually like this other guy better. Maybe I should just tell him, hey, listen, listen to this record or two, because that's what I'm really getting inspired by now.

00:46:49:02 - 00:47:19:23
Unknown
And then they can hear it, and then they can branch. They can move out. Yeah, it's pretty awesome to have this talent pool and this wonderful group of friends. Like my newest record is called California Sun. Right. And it's it's kind of a it's not really a concept album, but one of the things I really want to highlight on the record are these, like, like this scene of maybe 100 or 200 or 300 musicians that have been floating around L.A. and we all know each other and we all hire each other for stuff.

00:47:19:28 - 00:47:44:31
Unknown
And we are all inspiring each other and helping while we're helping each other make a living. You know what I mean? Well it's a good. Yeah. And, and a lot of people when they think about California they like. Yeah we think about Jackson Browne and the Eagles and Joni Mitchell, Neil Young. Some people will think about the Wrecking Crew and the fact that, like the Monkeys and Sonny and Cher.

00:47:44:38 - 00:48:06:26
Unknown
Right, right. And the commercial aspect. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah. You know, the theme for that band was all recorded in Disney movies. The music was all recorded within two miles of each other. Yeah, in some ways. And also Pet Sounds. Right. And also Elliott Smith records, like so much was it? It was. It's such a compact place with so much talent.

00:48:06:31 - 00:48:32:27
Unknown
Right. It's so great to be in that and a part of this legacy, of, like I moved to L.A. as a fan of this stuff. Yeah. And also hoping that I could be a part of it. And now I'm, you know, like, like we're actually in the hotel room now because I'm touring with a wonderful band called our House, which is, which is a Crosby, Stills and Nash and Young kind of tribute band.

00:48:32:32 - 00:48:58:26
Unknown
But it's fronted by two guys that played with Nash and Crosby for years and years and years. So it's like it's this legacy part of what they did and listening to their records and hearing the way Stephen Stills played bass. And one of the guys works with Leland Sklar and Russ Kunkel, who were like the guys that played bass on not only for Jackson Browne and Linda Ronstadt and James Taylor, but they're some of the best session musicians and most respected in the world.

00:48:58:31 - 00:49:18:13
Unknown
And to get to work with these people and be part of this larger community sure is awesome. And it's, and it's hard. Like, I had to pick up my life and move somewhere far away, hoping to work my way into the scene. And a lot of people don't have that freedom, and you're stuck. A lot of people won't make that leap.

00:49:18:17 - 00:49:44:31
Unknown
And I think, you know, I want to congratulate you on that because you took the leap and, you know, you've set yourself up in LA, but you also, you know, you're you're working, you know, working day and, you know, we're we're one last question for you. And then we'll, we'll wrap this one up, and I'm going to have to have you back again because Chicago, because, I mean, there's there's a lot, lot more to talk about.

00:49:44:31 - 00:50:06:12
Unknown
But, you know, that being said, you're in this great, loving community of fellow musicians and such. What do you want those musicians to say about Ted Russell Camp?

00:50:06:16 - 00:50:38:19
Unknown
I want to be perceived as a good person who's fair, a good, a good and inspiring musician. I want to I've also known I've known what it is to be a good sideman and or outside of the world of music. Just an employee. And so I want to be a good employer when I am steering the ship. And I want to give people a chance to be creative, and I want to give people a chance to enjoy so that we can all enjoy doing it together.

00:50:38:24 - 00:51:00:32
Unknown
I think music really is a team thing. You hear you hear some of these great stories about Miles Davis and Buddy Rich or some bandleaders that kind of ruled by fear, you know? And I don't want to I've, of course, been scared that I'm going to be the guy to mess up. And so that fear motivates me to, to play better.

00:51:00:37 - 00:51:20:17
Unknown
But I've had that happen. But but I like I want, I want people to enjoy themselves. I still want to get where I'm going. And if I spent like if I'm producing a record, whether it's mine or someone else's, like, now this I'm hearing this thing, it's not quite a stones tune, and it's not quite a Chuck Berry tune, and it's not quite a George Satellite's tune.

00:51:20:22 - 00:51:48:22
Unknown
And but so I'm not afraid to suggest, hey, you try this or you try this or pretend you're this come from this approach. But I want to make those suggestions in a way that's respectable, respectful and positive. It has a laid back works like. Oh, yeah, let's try that idea. No problem. That had like, I want, like, when I'm playing and when I'm doing my gigs and I'm hiring my, my musicians and friends to play with me.

00:51:48:26 - 00:52:07:33
Unknown
Every time one of them says, man, I love that new tune, or I, there's this tune of yours that I really loved. Or when they talk about a musical moment or a place a solo happened or something like that. Right. I always make a mental note. Never like, great. Whenever Jim's on the gig, we do right down to the wire.

00:52:07:37 - 00:52:35:52
Unknown
Nice. Whatever. You know what I mean? Sure, whatever. Brian's on the gig. I know he likes blue eyed soul and this Americana roots rock stuff, so I want, And I want to give the guitarists a chance to solo and explore and jam so that they enjoy the experience, you know, like, and I and I want, I would want other people when they're talking about me to say Ted has a, you know, he's, he's he's going to he's going to come, he's going to care.

00:52:35:57 - 00:53:04:08
Unknown
He's going to do his best. And he he's going to want it to be a joyous, positive experience for everyone. I think it's not going to be a grind. I think you hit the the crucial word joy and, and I can't help but know that, you know, that's what you, you experience with you, as a sideman and also leading, you have a great sense of inner humor, and they keep you moving, you know, on things.

00:53:04:12 - 00:53:24:30
Unknown
And that's that's awesome. You see his website now visit and listen to his music, support this guy and, support what he's doing and reach out to him, too. You know, that's one of the joys about the business. Take a leap and, you know, see what his schedule is like and if he's willing to produce you.

00:53:24:35 - 00:53:42:56
Unknown
But, I want to thank you all for tuning in, and, you know, as always, we'll be back with something sooner or later. So, next week. So thanks. And thank you again, Ted Russell Camp, thank you for having me. As you guys. It's all, like, more than welcome. And thanks for setting this up in a hotel room.

00:53:42:56 - 00:53:50:16
Unknown
It's such a musician thing where we're experiencing right now. All right, guys, until next time. Bye bye.

00:54:03:15 - 00:54:52:29
Unknown
This say, there's even more. Still need to. It's waiting here for you. Just take it. Straight. This time, you might be ready. But if you can't find the light just for you, you can shine on. Shine. I know that the dance is just above the embers and the sky. You know shine. And I know I can dream that you just can't quite remember.

00:54:52:34 - 00:55:05:48
Unknown
Like a dream that you just can't quite remember.

00:55:05:52 - 00:55:31:04
Unknown
They say that you name is the perfect place to stay. When you're up all night. From genius to rapture. But the sky was not kind. And we were glad by la la la la. Something did pass through us. And the.

00:55:31:08 - 00:56:32:03
Unknown
Unknown. I know that the dance is just above you. And I know, I know that I can dream. That you just can't quite remember. Like a dream that you just can't quite remember. Your dream that I just can't quite remember.

00:56:32:08 - 00:57:09:43
Unknown
So let's take it from the top. And keep playing. Just don't stop. And we'll see what it feels like when we get there. So when you leave today. If you get lost. And when you do that, you are still halfway somewhere. I know, I know, I can play the dances just above me and.

00:57:09:48 - 00:57:43:37
Unknown
I know you shine, I know I can dream that you just can't quite remember. Like a dream that you just can't quite remember. Your dream that I just can't quite remember. Your dream that I just can't quite remember.

00:57:43:42 - 00:57:44:48
Unknown
Shine on.

00:57:44:48 - 00:58:02:31
Unknown
Thank you for listening. For more information about this show or a transcript, visit Martin mccormack.com while there. Sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung Out.

00:58:02:36 - 00:58:15:23
Unknown
It's so strong. Spain, we feel, makes no sense at all. The swan song wasn't part of the deal, was no good. All giving no choice. Giving us a.