Strung Out Episode 249. NORA O'CONNOR: EMBRACING THE SONG

There are singer-songwriters out there who are so good at making other singer-songwriters look so good that we forget how good they are.  Nora O'Connor is one such singer-songwriter. The folks she has toured and recorded with are a who's-who of Americana music: The Decemberists, Neko Case, and The New Pornographers.  But make no mistake, O'Connor is a singer-songwriter first and foremost.  Her latest album "My Heart" (we get to hear her perform the title track) is a wonderful compilation of songs that delves into her embracing her own talent, as well as the song.  She is a pure singer, a shy sort of human being as well.  Her ideas about songwriting and performing are a good study for anyone who wants to not only shine the spotlight on others but enjoy the spotlight for themselves every once in a while.  Her website is www.noraoconnormusic.com.

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:14:44
Unknown
Welcome to Strung Out, the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist. Your host is the artist, writer and musician Martin Lawrence McCormack. Now here's Marty.

00:00:14:44 - 00:00:47:54
Unknown
everybody. Welcome to Strung Out. And I'm with Nora O'Connor. And Nora is, a singer songwriter that if you're from Chicago, if you're in the, Americana music community, the folk rock music, whatever that term is, you will you will have heard her. You will know, that, not only does she have her own solo career, but she's, one of those beautiful harmonies that you hear with, a lot of groups.

00:00:47:54 - 00:01:32:32
Unknown
I mean, Neko Case and, you know, working with, Mavis Staples and, a lot of the bands from the bloodshot. Yeah. World. Yeah. You know, and, so welcome back. You glad to have you and, on this interview, we always like to talk a little more about the creative side of things, but I want to, back up to where we were in the last interview, where you were talking about doing couch series, and, you can kind of a cute name for it, but, I think those are where the future kind of looks.

00:01:32:36 - 00:02:00:45
Unknown
The living room shows, living room shows. I'm noticing, like a lot of musicians that are doing the living room circuit around the country, you know, a little bit older, like me. And, you know, have, have put in a lot of time playing in clubs and, and and that and it's just a different way of doing it, you know, there's a lot less overhead.

00:02:00:45 - 00:02:40:40
Unknown
So, you know, it's potentially an okay way to make some money. You know, when you're out there, it's a very enthusiastic, small but mighty crowd that comes out to these living room shows, and it's just, like, so intimate. And it just feels like this little secret society. And I was talking about how, you know, I've been playing clubs for 30 years, and you get there at 4:00 and you sit around until 8:00 or 9:00, 10:00, and you play your show and you're home at midnight and you split the door with three other bands and, you know, unless you get there at six, you people come at seven, you play at 730, you

00:02:40:40 - 00:03:01:50
Unknown
play for an hour and a half, you talk for a little bit and people are heading back to their cars at ten. It's very civilized way of doing it. Like we're we're done by 10:00 at night and, and in our jammies and in bed by 1030. And, that's, so it's a cool way and it's, I've done it.

00:03:01:50 - 00:03:22:50
Unknown
I've, I've gotten in my car and did a couple weeks around the East Coast in the Midwest, and I've been doing small trips around the country this year. And, it's, it's just a, it's just a different way. And there's lots of people doing it. And then there's, there's people out there who host, there's this great house in Baltimore, there's this great house in Richmond, Virginia.

00:03:22:50 - 00:03:47:18
Unknown
There's a few around here in Chicago, that just do it all the time. And they have, like, newsletters and write, you know, they clean out their living room, they set up chairs, they've got it down to a science, they've got their own merch. And, and people just know, like they have a reputation. So people know that they're going to, you know, even if they don't know you, the artist, they come because they trust the hosts.

00:03:47:23 - 00:04:21:42
Unknown
Thank you for describing that, because I think you're describing it. It's a it's a really interesting circuit. And, and I, what I like about it is the intimacy. Yeah. Above all, it kind of forces you to, to really engage with people. Not that I suspect you have no problem engaging with people. But, you know, I'm kind of one of those introverts where, you know, I run out of steam, you know, and sometimes the talking to the people before the show and after the show, it's it's a little bit harder for me than actually playing the show.

00:04:21:42 - 00:04:49:47
Unknown
Like when I'm hiding behind my guitar and songs, I'm, I feel a lot safer. So it's good practice for me to engage with people and get to know people and use my socializing skills. Again, that's a very big difference between doing a club. Yeah, club job. I don't have a dressing room to run in. Yeah. And yeah, you know, in a club, if you're playing a big club, you're not that prone to be giving a story or, you know, setting up a song.

00:04:49:52 - 00:05:17:01
Unknown
Yeah, it's it's a totally different beast. But, that's what makes it even though it's intimate, it's more difficult in the sense that you are working before the show and you are working after the show, and even though you're engaging people and talking, I mean, that's that's draining. Yeah. I mean, you can come you can come away from one of these living room concerts feeling like, man, I just did like a come home completely empties me out.

00:05:17:12 - 00:05:47:21
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, I have to recharge and go be alone and then come back and do another one the next day. Yeah. And I know that about I didn't always know that about myself. I sometimes would keep going past the past to keep driving past the empty point and Crash. So I just got to, you know I got to set boundaries, I got to know when it was time to kind of reel it in and time to kind of step away or, you know, when you do these, are you doing these as a soloist and you're going around doing them solo.

00:05:47:21 - 00:06:06:39
Unknown
Yeah. How do you find that? Do you do find, your, your own good company. And, you say you're an introvert, so maybe that's kind of nice for you then. I mean, it's, you know, after playing a show, you know, then I get to wake up the next morning and get in my car and, you know, I love that part.

00:06:06:39 - 00:06:28:55
Unknown
Like getting a coffee, getting in my car, or listening to music or a podcast or calling a friend while I'm on the road. Like, I remember I did this living room tour last or last year or two. Yeah, last year and I was doing the Midwest. I was driving to Minneapolis and Jason Narduzzi, a fellow musician, he was doing a living room tour on the East Coast.

00:06:28:55 - 00:06:50:53
Unknown
So he called me and we're like both driving to our gigs and talking on the phone and, I kind of like that part, like, I, I mean, I love driving. I've been touring in vans and busses for a really long time, and I love being on the road, and I love seeing the country. At the same time, it's it's a lot of work to do by myself.

00:06:50:53 - 00:07:15:13
Unknown
Was the O'Connor family. And we will get your first song, don't worry. No. What was your. The O'Connor family. Were you the kind of the family were taking big, long family vacations? Where did you get your wanderlust? I got it, I got it. I think when I first, went on tour with the the black family, later known as the At the Blacks, the first man I was in, and bloodshot records.

00:07:15:13 - 00:07:45:19
Unknown
Like, that's when I really got into touring. So, you know, growing up, we, you know, we went to Sisters Lakes, Michigan. Real summer, so. Okay, go too far. Didn't go too far. So it was just. But you had it. You found it to your. You found it. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. And I still I still like it a lot is, you know, we've done a lot of road trips with our, with our kids and I just, I love getting in the car and driving up to the U.P. to pick up my son like it's no fun.

00:07:45:24 - 00:08:06:27
Unknown
Well, why don't you give us a song that you would normally play at a living room concert, as opposed to the big club scene? I actually wrote a new song a couple weeks ago, and I would definitely it's it's still in the works, but it's a song that I would definitely try at a house show. Okay. Yeah, sure.

00:08:06:30 - 00:08:06:42
Unknown
I'll

00:08:18:37 - 00:08:42:41
Unknown
At, Okay. So, today there you sing. Can we pray? Pray. Ephesians two nine. Let it slip away.

00:08:42:46 - 00:09:08:49
Unknown
My tears have all run out. Come down so far away. If I can come in. I feel some space, some.

00:09:08:54 - 00:09:31:56
Unknown
Weary lies away. We don't want all day. We just know you'll be driving up.

00:09:32:01 - 00:09:49:38
Unknown
And a solo. What happen around here?

00:09:49:43 - 00:10:29:43
Unknown
If we're being washed away, we don't want all day. I sit. Yes. Oh, yes. Day and I sad. And you took us away. Stop it. Oh, it turns out that.

00:10:29:47 - 00:10:50:12
Unknown
You weary and miles away. We want all day. I could try other.

00:10:50:17 - 00:10:57:57
Unknown
If I could drum me.

00:10:58:01 - 00:11:04:43
Unknown
And we just, you know, help me drum it up.

00:11:04:48 - 00:11:16:36
Unknown
Give me. Just. God help me drum it up.

00:11:17:19 - 00:11:47:08
Unknown
Very cool. Unusual kind of help me drumming up. Yeah. Where'd you get that? Well, you know, it's thinking about, like, you know, a lot of people are raised by warriors, and I was raised by warriors like my dad. My lessons are, He was just such a. You know, he can worry about. It's just. It's an Irish eye.

00:11:47:10 - 00:12:13:18
Unknown
It's an Irish thing. And it's like, you know, just growing up, you know, his childhood was very like Angela's Ashes. Yeah. Like he was wet and cold and hungry his whole entire childhood growing up in the country and in Ireland. And, you know, and he just kind of fast passed that on and, you know, and I got this chorus like, if worrying was the way I would win awards all day, like, I'm, I'm a worrier too.

00:12:13:18 - 00:12:40:17
Unknown
So I just kind of like kind of ran with that and just, just the idea of trying to like, just, you know, drumming up the, the courage and the confidence to, like, have some faith has some faith. And I'm not. I'll be so worried or not catastrophize things, you know, but it you know, it's kind of drilled into me, you know, it's like I'm constantly trying to rewire some of that stuff because a grown up, it's tough.

00:12:40:17 - 00:13:00:47
Unknown
I mean, it's tough with the Irish. I mean, yeah, that's, it's. Yeah, it's in our DNA. It's just kind of part of our heritage, going over bridges, you know, like. Yeah, go over the bridge. You know, my brother Joe called it in our family. 1 to 10. So was recreational tension. Are you folks from Ireland?

00:13:00:47 - 00:13:23:52
Unknown
Well, my grandfather was the one from Ireland, and, but, I still have family. Who county me all when I get over there. Probably once a year. In fact, I was thinking that, you know, I could just hear you playing over there and just being eaten with a spoon. Yeah, I, you know, there with bands, but I've never gone on my own drum.

00:13:23:58 - 00:13:49:17
Unknown
And I think it's time for a Norah O'Connor solo tour of Ireland. That'd be so cool. Yeah, especially since you've got family there. I like that you're diving into, like, you know, a treasure trove of family experiences to pull up stories. Is that where things kind of come for you, or are you the kind of, songwriter that just,

00:13:49:21 - 00:14:20:45
Unknown
Well, here's something. What? You know, how do we start a song if we're Nora O'Connor? Well, a lot of times, you know, for me, I'll just, like, start just strumming that and, and, and, you know, and I'll start, like, humming and I'll start making vowel sounds and see what you know, feels right, or putting my voice in different, and then kind of just start singing words or thinking about, like a theme of the song that I have in mind.

00:14:20:50 - 00:14:44:49
Unknown
You know, sometimes I'll sing something really personal and have to, like, fictionalize it a little, a little bit. But, you know, like, I'm definitely, you know, for better or worse, I'm kind of drawn to the sad love song as a way of healing, you know? So, I kind of go that route a lot, but I'm trying more to, like.

00:14:44:54 - 00:15:03:19
Unknown
Be a little bit more of a storyteller and, like, kind of write down some ideas for stories and see how I can turn them into songs. And so that's, that's kind of neat. You're taking the whole, like the story idea, like from beginning to end, like a little bit of a that's kind of a new thing for me.

00:15:03:19 - 00:15:33:10
Unknown
I think, you know, I mean, I, I've got three records that I've made over the past 30 years, so I can't say, I'm prolific, but I do, but I, I, Like, I've joined some, like, set songwriting groups for accountability, like, with Steve Dawson and a few other songwriters. Week. Okay. Yeah. Once a month or once every couple of months and, like, share a song in.

00:15:33:10 - 00:16:02:13
Unknown
And I like that accountability. Like there's no feedback. We just come, we play a song and everyone goes, good job, good job Steve. Good job Nora. Good job Darryl, you're touching on something that's I think it's important for people that are trying to make, to get, get their way forward in songwriting and the accountability word is important because it's so easy to kind of sit around and drift from one melody to another.

00:16:02:13 - 00:16:18:33
Unknown
Yeah, I have a lot of ideas. Right. And then, you know, so finally. And that's why in the last interview, I loved when you were talking about, well, I just, I told myself I was going to, you know, put out an album of ten songs and you did it, you know. Yeah.

00:16:18:38 - 00:16:43:21
Unknown
That kind of work ethic. And you say you have a lot of songs. How do you go about organizing that then into, a work ethic? You have the songwriting group, but you do carry a pad of paper around with you, with Nora O'Connor ideas? I do, I've got a couple of. I've got a couple of notebooks that, I keep handy.

00:16:43:25 - 00:17:05:47
Unknown
And I'm a real big fan of, you know, the voice memo. Just, you know, if I'm driving and I have a little melody or, you know, or, like, just like a catch phrase that I can build on and turn it into a song like, you know, recorded on my voice memo. And I do a lot of home recording like I do.

00:17:05:52 - 00:17:38:56
Unknown
If I, if I finish the song, I'll go in and, you know, record guitar records and vocals, record a bunch of harmonies, record some bass records, you know, just some keyboards. Like, I don't release those demos, but I really enjoy, starting an idea for a song and then like, completing a demo of it and trying to get as many ideas as I can, and then I'm, I'm surrounded by so many great musicians I can.

00:17:39:01 - 00:18:00:30
Unknown
I have an idea of what I want to hear, but I also very much trust what people bring to this. So it's often like, do whatever you want because you know, like do whatever you want. Like Gerald Allen playing drums. Like just, just be Gerald. It's going to be great. He's a great drummer and he makes it makes it very easy and a very good guitar player and a singer songwriter in his own right.

00:18:00:35 - 00:18:41:46
Unknown
He's writing a lot, but you know, that's another good little, bit of advice that you just tossed out there is the idea of just allowing, your creative process kind of surrendering to some degree to the creative process of others. Yeah. To just be surprised to some degree. Right. Sometimes. But I know if it's a good feeling, like if I write a song, like, I know if I'm if I like it enough to record it, then I know that I'm getting somewhere because there's a lot of like half songs that don't make it into ProTools or don't make it into, GarageBand or whatever I'm recording.

00:18:41:46 - 00:19:07:19
Unknown
Where do you keep those ones? Because I always love I always love asking musicians about that because there's always the junkyard. Yeah. You know, junkyard and I don't often go back, like, I don't often look at old stuff. Like, I feel like I'm always looking moving forward. It's hard for me to, And I probably should, because I probably have got some good ideas that I've.

00:19:07:19 - 00:19:28:16
Unknown
I've left behind. Yeah. Like that. I don't often go back. I often just kind of move on to the next thing. It's almost existential in the idea that the younger Nora is out there, you know, with these songs that she crafted and now, you know, she might be tossing you one. You know, if you go back, you know, you never know.

00:19:28:16 - 00:19:50:46
Unknown
Yeah. You know, you you are very creative when you go and do these demos and treats me because I'm thinking to myself, she's the kind of person that could probably just put out an album of her and her alone doing everything. Are you a drummer? I'm not a drummer, and I'm just. I'm surrounded by too many great musicians.

00:19:50:46 - 00:20:12:22
Unknown
Okay? Like I'm always going to want, you know, we you harmonize with yourself, though, like I do. I loved yeah, like the last record, I did most of the vocals. Okay. And that's that was like very, deliberate, like, I like, I wanna I had a couple people saying, but I did most of the singing because I really wanted to come up with my own harmony parts.

00:20:12:22 - 00:20:30:47
Unknown
And plus it was, you know, it was Covid and I made all these demos that, came up with all these, you know, like oohs and, harmonies that I just did it myself. You know, if I my doing the Mr. Marty show was my way of accountability. I forced myself to write one song a week. Great.

00:20:30:50 - 00:20:57:58
Unknown
And I, I just, I did a really sloppily GarageBand and, and then, then I would send them off to, like, Mike Kapler or Paul Martins and I would say, I don't want the Taj Mahal. Really, what I'm looking for is like a mural at the Evanston post office. Yeah. You know, I mean, just kind of, but one thing I always enjoyed, was harmonizing with myself.

00:20:58:03 - 00:21:23:13
Unknown
Yeah. You know, I, I and in my duo switchback on the harmonizer. Okay, you know, to to Brian Fitzgerald's melody most of the time. But, with that, are you working on a future project right now? I know you're about to go out on the road. You're talking like this fall sounds like. Yeah, you're going to be in a week.

00:21:23:13 - 00:21:55:30
Unknown
Okay, land. I'm going to be playing guitars and and singing with with her band. I'm just trying to find, a discipline of of writing. And if and if, you know, I've got a few new songs and if they, if it feels like, like I can put a record together than than I will, but, I definitely, you know, I waited a really long time between write all three records.

00:21:55:30 - 00:22:17:50
Unknown
I put one out in the 90s, in the early 2000 and the 2000, you know, 20s. So I don't want to wait that long this time. Yeah, but I don't want to force it. And I don't want to just write ten songs and put it out like, I want to. I want to expand on what I've done. And and it's, you know, it's still going to be like bass, drums, guitar.

00:22:17:52 - 00:22:39:41
Unknown
Yeah. The words and and Hammond and maybe like some pedal steel, you know, it's still like I still kind of have this certain sound that I like. So I'm not like going into electronic music, but how how can I, how can I challenge myself? Well, yeah. Yeah. I hope you don't vary too far away from the Americana, because your voice certainly is suited for it.

00:22:39:46 - 00:23:07:42
Unknown
Though I could hear you cutting, modern Irish album. I mean, it's just, I thought about that, before I made my last record. I might have to talk more about, off camera about getting getting into your roots. Yeah. And, you know, the Irish music community in Chicago, that's that's a whole other, you know, dimension and, that, you might have a lot of fun with.

00:23:07:42 - 00:23:36:49
Unknown
But, let's have you do another song right now, and then we're going to go to a little break and, then when we come back, I want to get into, even a little bit more about your songwriting and, and also just kind of some advice, you know, as, as, especially for female singer songwriters and performers, you know, just, tricks of the trade that you have picked up over time.

00:23:36:53 - 00:24:01:28
Unknown
Is that sound all right? Yeah. Sounds great. Cool. All right, so we're, strung out with Nora O'Connor, and, it's Nora O'Connor, music icon. That's right. And, you'll see it flashing all over the screen. Yeah. Follow the finger and, and get on her schedule because, you're going to find out where she's going to be playing with you.

00:24:01:28 - 00:24:29:06
Unknown
And, you know, before you do it, one thing that popped into my mind when we talked about songwriting was, I think it was Neko Case. I think it was her that I just heard one time driving somewhere across Nebraska or something. We were being interviewed, but talking about the idea of a two minute song, and I thought, oh, that's kind of an interesting idea that you talk about, like forcing yourself to to do something in two minutes and two minutes alone.

00:24:29:11 - 00:24:53:43
Unknown
I thought, well, that's an interesting concept. But, you know, forcing yourself or I, I hear you. I mean, you can't you can't really shoehorn yourself into a song, can you? Yeah. What's a good challenge to, like, give yourself some parameters. It's like an exercise, like, okay, how do I make it two minutes long? Anyway? My point across there, how do I verse chorus.

00:24:53:48 - 00:25:16:59
Unknown
So, you know, bridge like, what is it even like, you know. Yeah. As any of your songs, has like Kelly Hogan or anybody, grabbed any yet or are they, are you not letting them go. Oh, I'm so open. But no, no one's grabbing my songs. All right, guys, come on now. No, let's let's hear, let's hear one.

00:25:16:59 - 00:25:26:29
Unknown
What do you got? I think this one's under three minutes. All right, well, Well, I'll try, this this is kind of a short little ditty. It's called Cambridge.

00:25:35:42 - 00:25:58:09
Unknown
Cambridge called. Yeah, sorry. There. What was it called? It means square. And the brass was actually. You.

00:25:58:14 - 00:26:19:14
Unknown
We pretended and we played. We never tried to go. Go. The whole holding hands. It in this way. You.

00:26:19:18 - 00:26:29:23
Unknown
Or maybe God is. I just want in the coldest winter, everything.

00:26:29:28 - 00:26:45:05
Unknown
No. My family in the Midwest. And it seems there's a place you. Know I've been left. You.

00:26:45:10 - 00:26:48:50
Unknown
You.

00:26:48:55 - 00:26:54:16
Unknown
Do you?

00:26:54:21 - 00:27:18:52
Unknown
Do you play your east upstate? What time we got to play around us? That to be time, girl. You know, in some ways.

00:27:18:57 - 00:27:40:09
Unknown
Never dances every way down. Here's the thing, girl. He has for a smile. They share it. These all out. She.

00:27:40:14 - 00:28:03:15
Unknown
Must be back on the ground. It wasn't enough to know at some. Till I finally came around, you know, like. Oh, well, we better get you.

00:28:03:20 - 00:28:11:14
Unknown
To do.

00:28:11:18 - 00:28:17:35
Unknown
Oh, do you?

00:28:17:40 - 00:28:25:07
Unknown
Do you?

00:28:25:07 - 00:28:48:46
Unknown
Hey. Want to show your support of Martin's artist endeavors? Buy Me a Coffee is an online site that makes supporting Marty easy. In just a few tabs, you can make a payment of any amount and no account is needed. You can also decide to become an ongoing supporter. Go to Martin mccormack.com and click on the words support. Mark.

00:28:48:51 - 00:28:56:51
Unknown
Let's help Martin keep it all caffeinated.

00:28:57:39 - 00:29:24:55
Unknown
Hey, everybody. We're back. And we got Nora O'Connor here tuning her guitar. And, I hope you keep that inadvertent dramatic pause in that song. Oh, I forgot the lyrics there, but it's, you know. Yeah, I know you did. But then I was like, wow, that kind of works sometimes, you know? But Cambridge called Cambridge cold, cold, cold cold.

00:29:24:56 - 00:30:01:22
Unknown
Yeah. Someone who moves out to, to Boston for about a year tries it out and it runs back home like just doesn't quite, quite fit it or make it was this a friend or was this, a real life thing? You just kind of made up like when I was writing songs for the last record. I was going on one of my little Covid walks, and I ran into a woman down the street who introduced me to her friend, who had said that she had just moved out to Cambridge and, and she lasted a year and she came back home.

00:30:01:22 - 00:30:18:53
Unknown
So I just kind of made up a story about it. And I had really fond memories of playing at this place called the Middle East in Cambridge when I was in the Blackstone, when I was in Andrew Byrd's band, and they had like a little coffee shop upstairs, but then they got the bigger room downstairs and like, we got to play downstairs.

00:30:18:53 - 00:30:43:39
Unknown
I thought, okay, we've made it. This is so cool that we're playing the Middle East downstairs. It was, you know, Rock club is great. So you created a, fictional but yet, kind of a little memory. Yeah. It's trying to come by in some sort of theme in some just made up thoughts, you know, because I've never I've lived in Chicago my whole life.

00:30:43:39 - 00:31:10:05
Unknown
I went to school in southern Illinois. Like, I've just I've always lived here and, just admire people who, like, get up and move around the country. Yeah. You know, and that's, you know, I don't I don't want to move, you know, since it's fine, but it sounds like how was it, you know, or how how's California or I go, I get very excited for people who are brave and and just venture out into the world like that.

00:31:10:05 - 00:31:34:32
Unknown
And I do it in my own way by touring, you know? Yeah, I think touring for me is, maybe how I can get away from, you know, just I mean, I never grew up in the city, so it's very strange for me anyway. And, and, and I always are local. Did you grow up? Well, I grew up in Woodstock, Illinois, and that small little farm and.

00:31:34:32 - 00:32:01:28
Unknown
Yeah. Well. And then I spent my summers, don't you know, as a kid in Wyoming and. All right. My grandmother was born in a log cabin in Montana. And so even with, switchback, I'm constantly kind of, you know, I'm I'm probably about 1500 miles too far east, but. The thing is, where I can't kind of feel happy, I guess, is I can go out on the road and then come back.

00:32:01:32 - 00:32:24:57
Unknown
Yeah. You know, there's something nice about the Midwest and, you know, and there's something kind of grounding about Chicago. I, I, I think it's maybe because you can get on a plane, fly to any part of the country so quickly in a timely fashion without, you know, killing yourself, you know, and, I'm admiring the fact that you are going out on the road and you're doing these, living room concerts.

00:32:24:57 - 00:33:05:03
Unknown
You're also, you're also writing, a lot of scenes. I mean, if these are the songs that are coming out. I'm just curious with you, you, you know, when you craft a song and you start with this melody line and everything like that, where do you then just kind of, fit the words? Is it the kind of thing where you're just going to take a song phrase, a snippet and then just say, okay, I'm going to make this, into a song, or are you are you going back into, you know, your past or are you writing a song about your husband?

00:33:05:03 - 00:33:26:28
Unknown
I mean, where does it come from? And you said that, you know, not to pilot on to tape, but, I mean, you know, you you tend toward the melancholy. Yeah. So is that just kind of a launching pad, or do you feel that this is I'm trying to get out of that. But, you know, I like I, I love singing sad songs.

00:33:26:28 - 00:33:53:45
Unknown
I love listening to sad songs. There's something healing about kind of exploring, you know, heartbreak and heartache and, and and and loss because those are very impactful things that happened in your life. You know it. Cambridge cold. I mean, I, I picked up on that. We played the Middle East upstairs and you know, I got like that sounded pretty I mean celebratory.

00:33:53:48 - 00:34:18:09
Unknown
Yeah. So I want I want to accuse you of being, you know, oh, my cat died and, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't even have a cat. Yeah. You know, that kind of thing. You're you're you're certainly. I mean, there's a different times I write that kind of stuff to, like, get it out of my system to kind of get to something else, you know, something that that, you know, songs that people don't even hear, like, oh, this is too this is a little too personal.

00:34:18:09 - 00:34:41:59
Unknown
Why don't you keep, keep digging or think of a, you know, a story or something? So, when you when you think of a well-rounded singer songwriter, is there any person that springs to mind that you go, oh, you know how you know? Yeah, there's a lot,

00:34:42:03 - 00:35:16:18
Unknown
There's a there's they're there are a lot. And that's like one of those questions like, what's your favorite song? But, you know, like there's new artists like, like Waxahatchee. She's just making really beautiful music, like, very, I mean, not I'm not going to say simple, but in that it's, it's it's it's melodies harmony. It's acoustic guitar, electric guitar, bass drums, you know, pedal steel, maybe some strings, some, you know, like that.

00:35:16:22 - 00:36:00:33
Unknown
Just really. Well thought out songs. She's a really great songwriter. Big fan of Jeff Tweedy. What am I listening to right now? You know, I think of, like, even people who are local and someone like Steve Dawson, who writes really beautiful song. Works really hard at it. And, and you know, I, I sometimes feel like I'm really working hard at this because sometimes they just come out, you know, sometimes songs are just like, okay, I guess that's the song because I'm enjoying myself and I like this little, this little ditty and yeah, and it comes together for you, I mean, and you know, when you have a come together, how

00:36:00:33 - 00:36:26:43
Unknown
do you know it's done? That's a good question. You know, I've only made three records, and I want to stop you right there because three. Yeah, yeah, well, you make it sound like, I'm sorry. You're like. I'm so hard on myself sometimes because, like, this lady made. It's like, 30 songs, and then you got more.

00:36:26:48 - 00:37:07:15
Unknown
I mean, come on, it's late, but still. Go ahead right out, though. But, you know, I really have to trust, like, with this last record that I made, I made it with Alex Hall, who's the drummer with Joe Patterson? He's my drummer. He's a drummer in the flat five. He has a recording studio called Reliable Recorders, and he's like, really helped me, just kind of trust myself, like, okay, you know, with, you know, there is some, some there's a few things on the last record like, oh, I wish the harmonies were a little bit higher, but, I tried to really I tried to make it a gentle process.

00:37:07:19 - 00:37:31:42
Unknown
Okay. Making this last record and, you know, this one time I walked into the studio, I was like, Alex, I don't think I could do it. He's like, we're doing great. We're doing this. This is happening like, trust me, that's the process. The Irish trust yourself. Yeah, totally. There's, you know, I worrying my worrying ways like, you know, it was it was good enough or just if you could do it just again, you know, I mean, there's that Irish, you know, it's.

00:37:31:45 - 00:37:53:34
Unknown
Yeah, we're our own worst enemies when it comes to this earth. And sometimes and sometimes I, you know, I've been like, you know, intimidated by the people that I work with. Like, how dare I write a song like, look at these people. They're they're huge. And, Yeah, you know, but I'm just me. And, like, I'm, I'm. I can only do what I can do.

00:37:53:34 - 00:38:20:18
Unknown
Like, I can only write a song that I could write, and, and, that's. And we all can't be stars, you know? Yeah. Well, that's part of, I think, you know, would you would you agree is part of maybe, getting older and mature when you kind of go and say, yeah, you know, it's like the Stuart Smalley thing, you know, I mean, and I'm good enough, damn it, I'm smart enough, right?

00:38:20:32 - 00:38:39:22
Unknown
You know, I mean, I deserve to make a record, right? I mean, is, is is is I'm loved by dozens. And that's just great. Yeah. You know, I mean, it's just kind of, but that's kind of also the very freeing thing about it, isn't it? Because you get to that point where you're like, well, who's to say I'm not a good songwriter?

00:38:39:23 - 00:38:59:08
Unknown
Yeah. And I love the idea. Like, I'm this age and I'm, I'm so not done, and I and I want to make another record and I want to write songs and I want to like, you know, work with some different musicians and, you know, push myself more like I'm, I'm, I don't feel dumb with, with this, which is a really good feeling.

00:38:59:17 - 00:39:22:09
Unknown
Well, you don't seem dumb to. Yeah. I mean, you're you're not the kind of person who's, like, talking about the glory days and, and I think that's really cool. Yeah. And with that in mind, I did in the last interview kind of place your, you know, you're, you know, in your stage, you know, you're kind of getting to that point where you've learned a lot so far.

00:39:22:17 - 00:39:49:35
Unknown
Yeah. And you know, just, you know, dispense a little, you know, if you had a if you saw the younger you coming up to you right now and, you know, picture her down there, you just coming from the the Rolling Stones cover band gig, what advice would you be giving her right now? I think I would be telling her, you know, that you do have a lot to offer.

00:39:49:35 - 00:40:21:13
Unknown
And you, and just keep at it, you know, there's, just, like, lower your expectations, but also keep working hard at it and also, like, learn how to learn how to play with others, learn how to be with others, learn how to be a good team person or a good, you know, support person in a, in a, in a band or in a group.

00:40:21:17 - 00:40:57:39
Unknown
Finish that damn song. Are we going to see an album of yours that's going to have, you know, to Kelly Hogan, Neko Case and Jeff Tweedy back in you. Oh gosh. In my dreams. Why not? I mean, yeah, I think, I mean, it's, you know, that would be like making a record with Jeff Tweedy would be like, an image raising experience like that would that would be like a dream producer making a record of my songs with Jeff Tweedy as a producer.

00:40:57:39 - 00:41:24:50
Unknown
That would just be incredible. Do you see yourself wearing a producer hat? I think I could. Yeah, I think I could, maybe if I make another record and I've been in the studio a lot. I don't know if I have the personality for it. Like, I don't know if I'm, but I can, you know, maybe, maybe, maybe.

00:41:24:55 - 00:41:47:06
Unknown
Yeah. You, you strike me as somebody that doesn't scream that often. No. Oh I don't, I mean, yeah, you seem pretty young. Yeah. I think you would be, you know, one of those kind of producers. A little too wishy washy for it, but, but, it is funny, I think when you do wear the producer hat, though, you have to kind of.

00:41:47:06 - 00:42:13:03
Unknown
Have you done it? I have, but it's it's you have to be the producer. Yeah. I mean, that's the only thing that kind of sucks about it is you have to make a decision, and you're thinking to yourself, I mean, there is that little against the Irish. I don't think the Germans have this at all. But in the back of your mind, you're thinking, who the hell are you to be saying, you know, you know, bring that up or, you know, have this harmony, but then, you know, you overcome.

00:42:13:05 - 00:42:40:35
Unknown
When I felt like I was a big part of producing my last record, like, I made a lot of the decisions that I felt really, you know, Alex, Alex helped me, but I really felt like I was kind of the leader of, of that whole process, that whole experience with that record, you know, it was just, you know, Alex was I feel it as co-produced by me and Alex because, you know, because his ear was always on.

00:42:40:35 - 00:43:05:28
Unknown
He was always listening to every take, as you know, and, and, you know, so that kind of put him in a producer role, but, but I liked, knowing what I wanted from my record, like, I, you know, I, I liked wearing those shoes. Yeah. Well, I want you to play us, so I just want you to come back because I want to progress report.

00:43:05:33 - 00:43:31:45
Unknown
Okay? Because I think you can use the accountability. Yes. Thank you for the interview. I'm giving you an accountability. Yes. Because I see a you, I see a lot of me, but I also see, I, I see something that, you know, you have the voice, you have the chops, and you have, you have this wonderful, rich, background of experience.

00:43:31:45 - 00:44:02:43
Unknown
You know, what a gift you're giving to our community? Just by being here in Chicago and playing and, and I hope folks, that you, come see Nora at one of her gigs, and, and I hope you sign my petition to go and have as many artists backing her with, with you, you have to get, you have to get, like, Gerald Dowd or or or or it would be fun to kind of have him again, gentlemen, for you.

00:44:02:48 - 00:44:21:05
Unknown
And maybe try playing the show with me on, June 28th, we're playing a street festival in, and Evanston's main Street Arts Fest, and I put together, like, a rock band because I want to rock. So. Yeah, I like that about you. You love my electric guitar? Yeah. Like, play a little harder. I want to sing a little harder.

00:44:21:05 - 00:44:43:42
Unknown
Maybe, you know, do some Badfinger, like, just stuff. Just just, I want to rock. Rock a little bit. I have the soft rock stuff. I want to. So you have that. You still have the rebelliousness of, like, you know, I'm going to rock it up. I want to rock in your face. Rock a little. Yeah, yeah. Do you have anything in your your, your arsenal that, is, you know, in your face?

00:44:43:42 - 00:45:10:54
Unknown
Rocky, or, you know, not to put you on the spot. Yeah. Not really. The the first song I played on the record, it's it's a little rocking, but when I just play it, it's acoustically. Yeah, they come across that way, but, All right, well, I'll make it a little even tougher. Okay. Give me a song that you feel is your vision for the future and vision for the future.

00:45:10:59 - 00:45:35:57
Unknown
Where do you are? Maybe a self-defining song. Oh, it's that I got. I have a song called called My Heart, which is kind of about, like trusting your gut or trusting your instincts or your intuition. Okay. And I think that, it's taken me a long time to trust my gut, to trust my instincts and my intuition.

00:45:35:57 - 00:45:56:19
Unknown
So this song is just kind of a reminder to, like, you have a feeling about this. Go for, like, don't doubt yourself. Like, just keep kind of moving forward with an idea or a conversation or whatever and whatever it whatever and what's what's the title? It's called my heart. My heart. Well before know I place that. I want to thank you again.

00:45:56:19 - 00:46:23:42
Unknown
Thank you for having me already. This has been really funded to, you know, a lot of time at home alone. So it's nice to just talk about music and the business. Well, you know, I'm writing. Well, I'll have you back, and you're welcome anytime. And, and, just a fellow Irishman on this, and a really, just somebody that's following, and, and so I like to say you're serving the muse, so.

00:46:23:47 - 00:46:34:40
Unknown
But let's, let's hear you play my heart. Okay? And, folks, once again, the great Nora O'Connor. Marty.

00:46:34:45 - 00:46:50:53
Unknown
Oh, yeah. I'm just going to say. And, well, she's got that ear, so she's turning that puppy up.

00:46:50:58 - 00:47:06:05
Unknown
Oh. Hand up. Yeah. Let's get everybody. So this is an old guitar. So sometimes. I hope you are watching this because this is a good part for live shows. How do you handle that tune? Which.

00:47:14:01 - 00:47:22:19
Unknown
By heart. Why do you do me?

00:47:22:24 - 00:47:33:37
Unknown
And why can't you believe me when I say I?

00:47:33:42 - 00:47:43:13
Unknown
Came.

00:47:43:17 - 00:47:51:41
Unknown
Why do you hide it with tears?

00:47:51:46 - 00:48:39:31
Unknown
I love to take you I. And it's you love that you. And I can tell by the way you keep in time I love that I'm back. My. And you're always here to remind me where to find me. Yeah. Oh.

00:48:39:36 - 00:49:39:03
Unknown
You solve it with a lick. Go. Every breath in my chest I see, I see you grow and grow I can tell by the way you keep in time. Something on my mind. And I love the way that you remind me where to find me. You who? Me who love you.

00:49:39:07 - 00:50:06:15
Unknown
I can tell by the way you keep in time. I had something on my mind. And I love the way that you remind me where to find me. Woo woo woo woo woo.

00:50:06:20 - 00:50:36:51
Unknown
Woo woo. You through the blue you turn to.

00:50:36:51 - 00:50:54:34
Unknown
Thank you for listening. For more information about this show or a transcript, visit Martin mccormack.com while there. Sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung Out.

00:50:54:39 - 00:51:07:26
Unknown
It's so strong. Spain, we feel, makes no sense at all. The swan song wasn't part of the deal, was no good. All giving no choice. Giving us a.