Strung Out Episode 251: THE REWARDING WORK-LIAM DAVIS' SONGCRAFT

Five-time grammy nominee Liam Davis has not only spent his life with some pretty amazing bands, but he has also produced some pretty amazing bands and artists. Furthermore, he has also started teaching on unique techniques
for song crafting.  This podcast is a must view/listen for anyone who wants to either learn how to write a song or pick up a few tips on how to make a good song even better.  You can contact Davis through his website www.LiamDavis.com for more information on producing and songwriting.

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:14:44
Unknown
Welcome to Strung Out, the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist. Your host is the artist, writer and musician Martin Lawrence McCormack. Now here's Marty.

00:00:14:44 - 00:00:39:48
Unknown
Hey, everybody. I am back with Liam Davis, and, this is, continuing on with our conversation, getting to know him, his music. A lot of accolades. You've been nominated. I was looking at your website and, like it's a five, six times five, five is four times as a producer. Wonderful. For Grammys.

00:00:39:53 - 00:01:05:29
Unknown
And, so we got the right person to talk to about, some of the nuts and bolts of song crafting, and maybe we can even tap into, hearing some of your insights, on producing. But first, regale us with the song, sir. What, what what would you like to play? I'm going to do one that's, that I wrote.

00:01:05:34 - 00:01:18:30
Unknown
For another artist. And and then it kind of adopted it. So, like, it's so cool.

00:01:18:34 - 00:01:21:46
Unknown
It is called abandoned radio.

00:01:23:53 - 00:02:19:38
Unknown
The sun went down, early on from, like, as if to say, young lovers. It's alright to go out and shake what your mama gave you. And the love you make. And what's gonna save you. I fell on this restless town. I watched it stagger and fall down. And everybody looked around. To see what they could see.

00:02:19:43 - 00:03:03:22
Unknown
Me and I saw your face. And I looked into your. Into that sweet bread place. And I whispered to you. Do you wanna dance? Do you wanna dance? And do you, do you, do you, do you wanna dance to. How did that song go? I. Sweet and heavy. Thick and slow.

00:03:03:27 - 00:04:05:57
Unknown
Pouring out of some abandoned radio I found the summer's long. And sometimes it hurts. When your love ain't stronger than you. First it burns a whole into your memory. You can't feel a home if it ain't empty. So you stay awake until the dawn. And you think you know how to hold up. Come the morning it's all gone.

00:04:06:01 - 00:04:12:34
Unknown
I took that solemn w.

00:04:12:39 - 00:04:19:37
Unknown
Sweet A heavy, thick and slow.

00:04:19:41 - 00:04:35:17
Unknown
Pouring out of some abandoned radio. And I. How did that song go? How did that so blow?

00:04:35:22 - 00:04:43:42
Unknown
Sweet and heavy began. And slow.

00:04:43:47 - 00:04:51:10
Unknown
Warren, out of some abandoned radio.

00:04:51:15 - 00:05:00:42
Unknown
Did song.

00:05:00:53 - 00:05:35:00
Unknown
Wonderful. Very, It's just a nostalgic song. It's like, what's the title of this old abandoned radio? Abandoned radio? Okay, let's use that. That this song is kind of our entree, obviously into this podcast, but, how do you go about crafting a song like Abandoned Radio? I mean, you know, so many people, stare slack jawed at a piece of paper, you know, filled with fear over the idea of, like, expressing themselves.

00:05:35:05 - 00:05:55:00
Unknown
You have a way of going in, taking, like that. This song, you know, you're starting out with something very, something that we all kind of experience at some point. That coming of age, you know, the prom, the sun going down on the prom, and, and, and then, you're, you're very deep writer.

00:05:55:00 - 00:06:15:00
Unknown
And I'm not trying to parse the song for you, but I like that. Pass away my heart away. I like that. Yeah. You know, you referenced, like, so many people talk about, you know, people having a whole and, you know, there's no. But you're talking about a hold on you, you, you know, that's already filled.

00:06:15:05 - 00:06:35:39
Unknown
So how do you these are beautiful images that you, you create. How do you go about doing that? I mean, what what is your your starting point? It's a question for the ages is not, you know. Yes. And I always like to ask artists and they kind of look at me like that and they go, okay, you just want me to explain.

00:06:35:39 - 00:07:08:31
Unknown
And, half an hour, you know, but, well, this is the, the thing that. So, while we're, well, we're making the entry. Yeah. I run a, a songwriting program. Great. Designed to help songwriters. Make breakthrough progress and do their best work. Okay. And so this blank page thing that you're talking about is something that every creative comes across at some point in their journey, right?

00:07:08:34 - 00:07:32:49
Unknown
Right. Usually what happens is, the, the first few pieces that you create, whatever medium they're in, are, done in a kind of, happenstance kind of way, right where it just it's like, wow, look what came out of me. And they we get attached because it feels so good. It feels so good to create something out of nothing.

00:07:32:53 - 00:08:05:47
Unknown
And so we become attached to the feeling. And then we try to reproduce the feeling, and we think that what we're producing, the work that we're producing is good by virtue of the fact that we have created it. Right. And good point. And that is mostly not true. Right. And so what I've discovered is, reframing mistakes and removing your attachment to outcome is the secret to overcoming that blank page.

00:08:05:51 - 00:08:42:54
Unknown
Okay. And so, for instance, in that, that song which I used to call that song until I realized what a terrible song title I was, was, like I said, written for someone else. So immediately the stakes are much lower. Right? Okay. Because I am not trying to. And as songwriters, part of the problem is that a lot of us just want to get onto the recording or out to the audience, some kind of accurate simulacrum of our entire human experience.

00:08:42:58 - 00:09:07:25
Unknown
Right? Right. And if that's impossible, right, you're never going to get there, especially if that's the task you're setting out to complete. And so for me, a lot of it is just if I am, if I'm too worried about the way that this song is going to turn out, then I leave. I leave the creative process for a time and I go do something else.

00:09:07:30 - 00:09:38:16
Unknown
Maybe it's, you know, it might be an afternoon, it might be a week, it might be a year. And, and I get rid of this attachment to, the outcome or this nervousness about nervousness, about the stakes. Is it and is it for the songwriter? Is it the fear of being judged or you see the attachment to the song?

00:09:38:21 - 00:10:06:21
Unknown
Or is it the kind of feeling like if I, if I just work this and keep working this, I'm going to have that perfect song. You know, from your experience coaching these people, what is it? Is it that or is it the fear factor? Like, if I get up there and I, I just, you know, spilled my guts about my, you know, my mom or whatever, somebody might say, oh, God, that's that's a pretty lame song.

00:10:06:26 - 00:10:35:54
Unknown
What is, how do you, and and how do you, how do you reconcile that? Fantastic question. Thank you so much. I think it has a lot to do. Yes, with a fear of judgment. And anything that is accessory to why we why we are reticent to be vulnerable. Right. And there is a great, part of what is beautiful about the creative process is it requires a vulnerability.

00:10:35:59 - 00:11:03:06
Unknown
Indeed it does. Yeah. And, and it feels really good when you are able to jump over that hurdle and be vulnerable. And I, I often talk because I also teach, songwriting to, elementary school kids. Yeah. And I often talk about vulnerability being a superpower, you know, especially to fifth grade boys. Well, I think that's true, though.

00:11:03:11 - 00:11:27:42
Unknown
There is. It is absolutely true. In my experience, it's 100% true. And so part of it is how do I get away with being vulnerable and, and, and not be judged, and then you're paralyzed, right? Because you, you you have to put yourself out there and you and and and if you don't, then everybody's gonna know it.

00:11:27:42 - 00:11:55:50
Unknown
And that and that, the authenticity that you're looking for, the truth that you're looking for, the catharsis that you're looking for, and if you're looking to give to your listeners is not going to be there. Right? Right. So once you get to that point and you're saying, okay, I'm, I'm willing to take the leap, so to speak, how do you, how do you go about about them crafting a good song?

00:11:55:54 - 00:12:19:05
Unknown
How do you like, you know, not that there is one tried and true formula because there's not enough for you. You know what? You know what? How do you go about it? Yeah. And, because for all those people that you just described and that's the majority of people, there's that, you know, 5% that doesn't have that hang up.

00:12:19:10 - 00:12:37:49
Unknown
And they write the most god awful songs because they you know what I mean? And they think they're great and they think they're great, and, and, and sometimes they power them through. But you know, so there's a little bit, you know, the magic comes in as far as, a deliberate process maybe. Is that the right word for it?

00:12:37:54 - 00:13:16:32
Unknown
You know, how would you describe this process of creating, another great question for the ages. Thank you. Yeah. I would say that you have two things operating in order to create a song that is valuable to the writer and to the list and the two things are, first of all, the scaffolding. That's it. Right. And that's the that's the deliberate part that you're talking about, the structure and, and there can be a structural songs that work, or mono structural songs, you know, like, like Astral Weeks.

00:13:16:32 - 00:13:38:28
Unknown
Van Morrison might be considered something that's like it's basically a monolithic thing. It's got the one thing where it goes to the six, but, it's basically just one and four, and you write that and nobody minds. Everybody is cool. Right? Right. But mostly, we have the, the scaffolding in place for the storytelling that's going to, to occur.

00:13:38:42 - 00:14:01:08
Unknown
And the scaffolding includes usually a verse and another verse and a chorus and maybe a bridge and that and that sort of thing. And like you were talking about these writers, who can just power through. You can do a lot with the scaffolding. You can have a verse, you can have, right. You know, you can have a pre-chorus and you can have a whatever.

00:14:01:13 - 00:14:23:14
Unknown
But the second thing you need is a kernel of truth, right? You have to have a kernel of truth. There has to be something that is undeniably true to you as a writer, to you as a human being in what you're creating. And that takes a lot of practice. It takes a lot of practice to free yourself, to recognize the truth and then be vulnerable enough to let it out.

00:14:23:29 - 00:14:45:53
Unknown
And I was just going to say, and there's where the vulnerability comes in, is when you're able to find that kernel of truth which is a little more difficult than it sounds, because you have to you have to come up with something that, You know, there's there's things that we all hold in common. It's a double edged sword.

00:14:45:57 - 00:15:20:36
Unknown
It can resonate and, you know, and that's what you want to happen. You want somebody to say, oh, yeah, those lyrics resonate with me. Or it can be cloyingly bad in the sense like, oh, God, you know, Spoon Jones. Well, here we go. I remember reading being mortified about, I think when Steve Lillywhite was producing U2 and, you know, he had like, they were they were writing on the fly in the studio and he had, like, literally a chalkboard where they're like pointing at words and.

00:15:20:36 - 00:15:46:12
Unknown
Yeah. And I was like, no, no, you can't do it that way, you know? But, I mean, so how, for somebody we've got to that moment, where, you know, now you're like, okay, I'm going to dip my toe in the water. Here's something that is meaningful to me. How do you how do you in case that wordage, you know, how do you how do you go about it?

00:15:46:23 - 00:16:15:02
Unknown
You as Liam Davis, writer. That I can answer. I usually, I have a few different methods that I, that I use, when it's not just flow, sometimes it just flows, right? Right. Every once in a while, it flows. You're like, okay. Yeah. You gotta learn to recognize those moments, honor them, stop doing whatever you're doing and go get some documentation of this down.

00:16:15:02 - 00:16:38:23
Unknown
Otherwise you're going to lose it. But when it's not flowing, what I often do is I will write a letter. I will either write a letter to the subject of the song, whether it's another human being or whether it's an event or whether it's, some kind of concept, or I will write a letter to the song I'm trying to finish.

00:16:38:28 - 00:17:02:44
Unknown
And that lets me know what's important to me, you know, because the idea in the program, we talk a lot about self-concept, which is really, something that I feel is in the way of us living our authentic human life. Okay. Is this idea once you start to think of yourself as a songwriter, I think your songs, if you are, I mean, as we're talking about this in this capacity.

00:17:02:44 - 00:17:26:03
Unknown
Wonderful. Yes. As you're endeavoring to write a song and you think I'm a songwriter, you're a human being first, and there are things that matter to you. There are things that energize you. There are things that deplete you. There are things that, that spark your imagination. There are things that feel nihilistic. Things like that. You need to get in touch with that.

00:17:26:03 - 00:17:45:04
Unknown
And you can't get in touch with that. If you're thinking, I'm a songwriter and this is what I do. And so I just find ways to trick myself. And I share these things with my student. And so what I do is in the letter that I write, there will invariably be something that jumps out, right?

00:17:45:07 - 00:18:05:17
Unknown
1 or 2 things that jump out and I'll be like, okay, well, what's that about? And then as you have, adeptly identified, I thank you so much for your deep listening. This very appreciative, I will create some kind of imagery around that. Right. And I'll be like, okay, well, what is what what would that look like?

00:18:05:28 - 00:18:34:33
Unknown
You know what is that? And then, you know, as you know, sometimes that happens rather easily and sometimes it's just too awful. Yeah. Just which which, you know, is okay if it happens. The tedium, because you know it, you know, you're doing a great job of of laying out the nuts and bolts, because. Yeah, not this slow happens.

00:18:34:38 - 00:19:00:50
Unknown
Oh, but like you said, drop everything and, you know, pray that you, you have something to put it down. And I'm going to ask you about that in a second. But, the concept that you just, proposed as far as writing a letter, I think is one of the best suggestions that I've heard in a long time for people writing songs, because, for a couple reasons.

00:19:00:55 - 00:19:27:39
Unknown
Because it does allow you to go into that subconscious, you know, and it's very through therapy, almost kind of. I've had to write letters in the past to like your anxiety. You know, what you're doing to me. Great. You know, because what a freeing concept. Everybody has an idea of how to write a letter, you know, and to mine up the little nuggets out of that is.

00:19:27:44 - 00:19:50:06
Unknown
So when you do this, you got your letter. And I hope you're saving your letters because it make a fascinating book. I think, just to accompany all of the, all of your, your, you know, compendium of songs. That's a great idea. Yeah. You're welcome. I'll give you 10%. No. Well, it's just I just think it's a brilliant idea.

00:19:50:06 - 00:20:19:06
Unknown
I wish I thought of it, The idea now, it's used. I see. I see you, sitting at a table. You got your letter, and, I hear a train coming, too. So we're going to get this in before the train takes off. What do you do next? Do you are you a are you a type of person who likes to physically hand write songs or do you.

00:20:19:13 - 00:20:50:06
Unknown
Okay, so you keep a journal then please. Okay. So you're you're old school, I guess of of writing and and and keeping I love that idea and I think, I think it's really kind of the only way to go, in my humble opinion, because there's something very, very, gratifying about seeing your own handwriting. Yeah. And I think there's something it involves the nervous system a certain way that is more kind of whole body oriented.

00:20:50:11 - 00:21:21:43
Unknown
That I think makes a difference. And I think the part of becoming a creative or becoming a songwriter is partly about engaging your radar. And so I always keep some kind of little notebook with me, even if it's this big. Great. Just to like, if I hear conversation or like, you know, here comes the train or, you know, like something that happens or if I'm, you know, monitoring myself or I'm in some place instead of looking at my phone, which I certainly could do, I would sometimes just pull out and, you know, write a letter.

00:21:21:48 - 00:21:36:23
Unknown
I'm going to take a break because we've got a train coming and we're going to have Liam play and we're going to continue along. You're on struggle. Oh.

00:21:36:35 - 00:22:01:24
Unknown
Hello, Polly Chase. Presenting artwork by Martin McCormick. There are many reasons to buy art. You might choose a piece for financial investment or to put the finishing touch on interior decoration. You can buy work because it speaks to you or you are a friend of the artist. And then there is art that you buy for the sheer fun of it.

00:22:01:29 - 00:22:30:14
Unknown
These pop art portraits in the Man and Dog series definitely fall into the fun category. Each acrylic on canvas measures 12 by nine. They can be purchased individually or as a complete set of four. They are a playful testament to companionship that stands the test of time and a vast wardrobe. Check out this painting and more of Marty's artwork on Martin mccormick.com.

00:22:30:19 - 00:22:39:17
Unknown
You can also email me with your interests at Marty Fine Art at gmail.com.

00:22:39:22 - 00:22:41:31
Unknown
Or.

00:22:41:31 - 00:22:43:46
Unknown
And we're back.

00:22:43:51 - 00:23:09:36
Unknown
Ruthlessly following the Chicago northwestern train schedule. With William Davis. And we are getting deep, deep into the nuts and bolts of, songwriting. Why don't we have you play a song and we'll continue along about the, the crafting end of things with songs. What's the name of this song? This one's called Walking Home. And it's got a little bit of a story related to what we're talking about.

00:23:09:41 - 00:23:43:43
Unknown
Okay. This was, Record Store Day many years ago, and I had gone to do my due diligence and buy some, some records, and, I was walking home, and this melody started coming, and I was like, oh, shit. And and I had my bag of records, and I started walking faster and faster and I don't know whether it didn't occur to me to to use a voice memo, which I sometimes do, because the words started happening at the same time.

00:23:43:43 - 00:24:09:12
Unknown
And I just was like, I have to get home. And I, you know, I probably had 12, 15 blocks to go. Oh, man. Yeah. And so, and so, once I got there, I just dropped everything and sat at my little coffee table and, just put this together. Excuse me. I'm just going to take a little.

00:24:09:17 - 00:24:15:47
Unknown
This coffee brought to you by Cafe Demand. It's delicious.

00:24:15:47 - 00:24:32:13
Unknown
I am 42 years old, half of April gone. So. But the evening sky is golden. Walking home, walking home.

00:24:32:18 - 00:24:47:25
Unknown
There's a bag in my left hand. Full of vinyl recordings. My evening is unplanned. I'm walking.

00:24:47:30 - 00:25:34:14
Unknown
Cannot see behind me. But I don't regret what it's done. You know, I did manage to find my only one. I have been this way before. I know every single. I won't wait for them to open. Walking or walking?

00:25:34:19 - 00:26:04:29
Unknown
Now I cannot see behind me. And I'm following no one. I guess it's taking all this time to learn to walk instead of run. I am 42 years old. Half of April gone so cold. But the evening sky is golden. Walking on, walking.

00:26:04:44 - 00:26:32:09
Unknown
Even the birds got quiet for that. That's amazing. I thank you for playing that song, because I think that's a great illustration of writing a great song. Thank you. Because first of all, I'm going to just tell you why. It's a great song. I'm here for it. It's in the first person. You're you're relating an experience that is relatable.

00:26:32:14 - 00:27:00:11
Unknown
But again, there's a lot of emotion around it. A lot of stuff hanging in the air. And I think this is an important thing for songwriting. It's important to leave some stuff hanging in the room. You're saying I'm 42 years old? You're talking, you know, right there. Like, okay, 42 years old. You know, for for those of us that are past that, you know, that brings.

00:27:00:16 - 00:27:23:44
Unknown
You know, not only like, well, we're a reference point of a time in life, but even somebody younger. There's there's you're stating a time and a place and there's a purpose to it, to be sure. I mean, it could just be you were 42, but 42 carries a much more weight when you put it out there like that.

00:27:23:49 - 00:27:45:06
Unknown
Is that what you mean by little kernels of truth as you drop along? Lyric writing. So stating the obvious, but is not such an easy thing to do, is it? Right? It isn't. And in fact, my mother in law at the time was like, are you sure you want to lead with that? Interesting. We all have those mother in law, right?

00:27:45:11 - 00:28:10:11
Unknown
And a couple of my life like that. But it's perfect, love. Well. Thank you. For me, it's the kind of, It's a when you are able to, identify that kernel of truth and and I don't I mean, again, this one just came. So, there's a little bit of, like, I don't know, voodoo involved, or something.

00:28:10:16 - 00:28:39:06
Unknown
Some identifiable unidentifiable magic, but, I do think stating the age contextualizes it. Right. There's a context for what I'm about to say, which has something to do with, coming to terms with midlife, maybe, or something like that. Yeah. And so, you know, again, even the turning of the season with April, you know, it's still cold, but the and you didn't say, you know what?

00:28:39:06 - 00:29:05:40
Unknown
The sky is gold. I love that the sky is golden. You you you you take the listener beyond. And the rhyme scheme in such a way that they have to listen. And that's a very good point. I'm just going to dissect all songs and we're going to have them play out the whole. It's, it's great because that that's the kind of stuff that, a really good songwriter hooks into.

00:29:05:45 - 00:29:36:55
Unknown
And and not just hooks, but works. And so we've got, I love the, the idea of writing a letter and when the, the, you know, I call it serving the muse when the muse hits you, you know, you have to you have to hope and pray that you can get it, but that that's a, you know, that song the way, that you also, arranged it.

00:29:37:00 - 00:30:01:42
Unknown
And let's get toward that, because obviously, once you write a song, you have to have some sort of, arrangement, right? It's necessary. And you put it in a purely walking home sort of vibe. I can sense it's the end. You know, at the end of the day, you've got the bag of vinyl records, you know? I'm wondering, like, God, I wonder what records does he have?

00:30:01:42 - 00:30:25:00
Unknown
Coltrane in here? What? You know, because it sounds kind of, you know, there's a jazzy sadness to it. You know, you're the first person who's ever wondered what's in the bag, you know, but that. But it does make me wonder, you know? And, like, you know, you're walking home and you are 42 and you're like, wow, you know, seasons changing and I'm changing and and I've got my these memories, these vinyl memories for years.

00:30:25:05 - 00:30:55:05
Unknown
Yes. You know, it's heavy in a beautiful way. You know, thank you for the, But what a great what a great, example for songwriters. And, let me ask you this, too, because I think, I always have songwriters that, that, they, they have all sorts of different opinions about this. Is it easier for a songwriter to write a sad song as opposed to a happy song?

00:30:55:10 - 00:31:25:30
Unknown
Well, I think for Westerners, it is easier for us to write sad songs, because they are more available in the zeitgeist. That makes sense. It sure does a well, a good a great answer, but elaborate a little bit because I think, you know, you're the first person I ever heard about talking about in terms of Western civilization, but I wholeheartedly agree with you.

00:31:25:30 - 00:32:09:35
Unknown
I think it is in our psyches that we, yes, we we have a a tendency to lean that way. Why do you think that is? Well, I don't pretend to know exactly why that is. I have a, I don't have an inkling that we are a little bit in love with, psychological struggle. And, in fact, we have in the Western civilization, that we don't have the kinds of survival problems that exist in a lot of other places in the world.

00:32:09:40 - 00:32:31:22
Unknown
And so we are left to grapple with life's meaning in a way that some other, you know, and, and the way that we choose to do it, which may just be cultural, right? It might just be a cultural thing. And that's what, you know, where those icons comes from. And it's just, that we are when left to.

00:32:31:24 - 00:32:55:23
Unknown
I mean, you think about all of the like, the goth bands that are, you know, suburban teenagers write those songs, and there's a reason that they're grappling with these things because they're experiencing a kind of spiritual malaise, because there's nothing right? There's the that's what's going on. We're just a theory, just an inkling. But you I'm going to have to have you back because you might like every week.

00:32:55:31 - 00:33:16:09
Unknown
Because we can we could be talking about this, ad nauseum. It's great. I agree with you, 100%. In fact, I always like to joke that, my one regret for Leonard Cohen was that he didn't understand that he would do that. Because I would love to have heard that, you know? Wow. You know. Oh, man.

00:33:16:09 - 00:33:38:58
Unknown
That's gold. I would love to have heard it, because, I mean, I think writing, a positive song is a challenge for us in the Western world. But for the reasons that you gave, it's just not in our wheelhouse when you're talking about, you know, I'm so happy, I just. I got a a loaf of bread, read something.

00:33:39:02 - 00:33:46:56
Unknown
Hold that thought. It's a great.

00:33:47:01 - 00:34:11:43
Unknown
Nice, gentle train that, express and express. Exactly which which makes me think, you know, how was it that, you know, a band like the Beatles overcame that? They they had their sugar Sheriff sessions, right? You know, one and all of that. But they also. But the guys that wrote. Yeah. I want to hold your hand.

00:34:11:48 - 00:34:37:24
Unknown
Octopus's garden. They wrote all sorts of things that, were kind of those you uplifting to some degree. Yes. Do you encourage your students then to take a stab at writing, kind of go against, you know, the, the tried and true, you know, because there's only so much, you know, depression that we can have in the world.

00:34:37:29 - 00:35:17:17
Unknown
Eventually there's has to be something kind of positive coming out, you know, in songwriting or maybe not. You know, look, how is it for the end? What what advice do you give? Go for true. Go for true. Go for true. Always go for true. And if true is joy, then go for it. Okay, that's really it. And and the one thing that I, I feel like there is and this is why I mentioned sort of the availability of struggling is zeitgeisty is in response to your question about is it easier it it can feel a lot easier to go there because you're practiced at it and it's just out there for the taking.

00:35:17:17 - 00:35:39:08
Unknown
And and oftentimes I find that my students really get get tired of their own angst after a time. Yeah. After a time of. Right, you know, like once the catharsis really, you know, once they get through to, like, writing songs that and every one of them has said to me at one point or another, I can't believe this.

00:35:39:08 - 00:36:04:17
Unknown
I'm doing the best work I've ever done. I don't feel sick, you know? And they feel like, wow. Like I finally did it. I finally got the song that I wanted out, and now I'm done with that and now I need to like, I there's, there's more within me, but it's not necessarily. You know, I was talking with a client the other day and she said, I just I cannot, I cannot imagine writing another sad love song for the rest of us.

00:36:04:22 - 00:36:26:55
Unknown
And I think that's a great thing I do, too, because I think once you step across that door that gives you it doesn't mean that you stop writing sad songs. I mean, it gives you permission to to, delve a little deeper into your life. Exactly. And, and find out what is the stuff that, you know, you always hear, you know, it's an adult brother says like, late at night, you got to count your blessings.

00:36:27:00 - 00:36:48:16
Unknown
I mean, those kind of things. But, you know, you do have to you do have to and you do have to as a songwriter, if you can pull it off and you can write a song that's going that resonates with people and in a way that you're tapping into their positive energy, that's a major accomplishment. I completely agree.

00:36:48:16 - 00:37:10:20
Unknown
And it's yeah, if I may, I just like to talk about something that happened. I'm sure it's in the grocery store. Yeah. Yesterday, I, cool in the gangs get down on it came on and, you know, I'm in the aisle or whatever, and I'm hearing that kick drum and I'm like, so hot in this mix.

00:37:10:25 - 00:37:29:31
Unknown
And, you know, it's in the, it's in the background. So I get out to the car and I pull it up so that I can listen to it. And I just thought, what? What an achievement. Yeah, there's nothing to that song except you're not dancing. Get up and dance. Because how else are you going to, you know, listen to this drumbeat?

00:37:29:40 - 00:37:53:21
Unknown
I mean, it's just it is so pure and it is such a perfect accomplishment of songwriting. There's nothing heady going on. There's nothing like it's so simple and it is gorgeous. It's a timeless and timeless. And because of what? Jesus. Yeah, right. Timeless. It's all over TikTok, for instance. Right. Like everybody's dancing to that song. I mean, just listen to it.

00:37:53:26 - 00:38:17:06
Unknown
I think Pharrell, to some degree, that song happens. Yeah. And that's the viral kind of response to that. And how especially in parts of the world that weren't Western. Yeah. For say, absolutely. How it resonated with people that. Yeah, the aspiration for joy. Exactly. See us. Yeah. You know, we might not be joyful all the time. Nobody is.

00:38:17:06 - 00:38:44:52
Unknown
But the idea of, lifting people up to the to aspire to joy. I mean, I remember, like, there were kids in Iran or something, and, you know. Yeah, they were being shut down. There's, you know, just singing along with that. Right? I felt powerful song and a positive song that can change the world. But thank you for answering that because I think that's, that's an important thing.

00:38:44:57 - 00:39:05:34
Unknown
And you also pointed out that what I like is hearing that your students kind of hit the end of the the rail line, so to speak, saying, oh, I've been to the station so many times now, I think I gotta get on a different track. Exactly. Which is a wonderful accomplishment in their songwriting. We don't have a lot of time left in this podcast.

00:39:05:36 - 00:39:28:03
Unknown
I'm going to have to have you back to talk more about the nuts and bolts of engineering and things like that, but let's let's, let's just go into that realm. And before we do, let's give a little bit of, shameful, shameless huckster ism and promote your website. It's Liam davis.com. Correct. And if I wanted to take songwriting lessons, I can contact you through that site.

00:39:28:03 - 00:39:51:44
Unknown
Yes, you can. And if I want you to produce my next album. Yes. Yes, sir. There you go, guys. There you go. Kids from across the country, right? Anywhere, anywhere, anywhere. Which is one of the glories of the age we're living in, is we? This can be accomplished. Very true. So let's take it to the, as far as we can for this podcast.

00:39:51:49 - 00:40:16:06
Unknown
I've just sat down. I just wrote a letter to, to the song. Just mind the words. I've got my trusty guitar and I got three chords and, Now what? What do I do? Mr. Davis? So then the next step that I would offer is. So you, you you've just. You found your truth, right? You found what's important to you in this letter.

00:40:16:10 - 00:40:43:14
Unknown
And, and you've got, like you said, your trusty guitar and, and your three chords, I would constrain myself. Interesting, I love it. Yeah. Okay. How so? So the next. Yeah. Right. So the next thing is I would, I'd say, okay, I'm going to get I'm going to kick this thing out of the letter. Let's say it's, a dream that I did.

00:40:43:14 - 00:41:11:02
Unknown
I hadn't remembered. Okay. I'm going to write a verse about this dream using only monosyllabic work. I'm going to use only words with one syllable, or I'm going to get through this verse on two chords and two chords. A lot. Right? Just provide some kind of constraint for yourself, because it will force you to do something, and you may trash the verse, but there will be something in there.

00:41:11:07 - 00:41:37:45
Unknown
Be something in there that keeps you going until you're satisfied with what you have. And so we all kind of have. I love what you said about my trusty guitar. I think that can be a crutch of sorts. Right. Because, as I'm sure you know what I like when you pick up your face and you're just kind of like your big hands has their go to thing that they do, and and it and it can be like, oh yeah, that's me.

00:41:37:45 - 00:42:03:05
Unknown
And I'm really trying to get out of me right back to these, and, and imposing those constraints, although arbitrary, can really get you past blocks. It's actually excellent suggestion that you just hear, folks, because that, it does give you an opportunity to, be able to, like you said, trick your mind off into being creative.

00:42:03:10 - 00:42:33:29
Unknown
That's so tapping into the idea process. So, I like that idea. Just for the value that that gives. Plus, you might hear the Eureka. Absolutely. You know, and it's surprising, you know, like, one of the challenges, I know artists that, like the cold case or some of those people where, I think it was her that she deliberately tried to write two minute songs, you know, and I was like, oh, I love that idea.

00:42:33:33 - 00:42:57:00
Unknown
You know, just just because two minutes are so arbitrary and, you know, so, and if you can get it done in two minutes, you you've been very disciplined. Yes. And if you can. Yeah. You know, put across the whole message. Yeah. Looking to see, being attacked by, can be helicopters, is probably what it is.

00:42:57:00 - 00:43:18:04
Unknown
Phillips is the plane that flies along with the Geico insurance banner. Oh, yes. Right. So, yeah, it's open season, right? Said season, and it's chugging along. It's shocking a lot, but, we're going to let them fly by and and keep talking. Then we're going to, I'm going to ask them to play a song on this podcast.

00:43:18:09 - 00:43:44:50
Unknown
Unless it's one your former mother in law, Michael. Coming in and she, she did offer that she was a sweetheart. I think that's so funny that I love it, I love it, song. But how many people know you're 42? Yeah. That's great. Okay, we're gonna take a little pause. Look, this plane fly by.

00:43:44:54 - 00:43:52:04
Unknown
Me? Romney's slow. How are you doing on you?

00:43:52:08 - 00:43:59:37
Unknown
We're almost done. Just letting this plane fly by. You see the plane?

00:43:59:41 - 00:44:03:25
Unknown
What's that?

00:44:03:30 - 00:44:14:21
Unknown
Okay. Are you hungry? I'm.

00:44:14:26 - 00:44:27:36
Unknown
Good. Oh, yeah. On the edge of team. Okay. All right. The plane has flown away. We're back. And,

00:44:27:41 - 00:44:50:06
Unknown
We have your know, we have the guitar. We have, the idea of constraining ourselves, and, it's such a great, again, another solid example. I want us to kind of just sum up, you gave us some really good tips. Sit down, write a letter to yourself, or write a letter to the song or the person in the song.

00:44:50:10 - 00:45:16:52
Unknown
The person in the song. Thing that happened to us. Yeah. And then the second thing is, is, you know, use that as a template to mine it for words that matter what have meaning. Stick to your truth. I love that. So, and, like our plane. Like our plane. Plane is sticking to its truth. Sticking to its truth.

00:45:16:57 - 00:45:50:08
Unknown
And then beyond that, then the idea of, constraining yourself, giving yourself some sort of, challenge or writing limit, limit it and and and be surprised by how far that can take you. Absolutely. You know, right there, guys, that's, three, three things. As far as, how to get going, writing a good song, my other question to you is, when you write this journal.

00:45:50:08 - 00:46:21:10
Unknown
So we have all this stuff here. To also have, like a graveyard or a bone yard or junk yard of song lyrics that you like to mind to recommend. Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. Because the thing that you think is, I mean, as we all know, something that might be anathema to you at some moment in your life or stage in your life may not be anathema to you forever.

00:46:21:14 - 00:46:42:10
Unknown
You may mean that something that you I mean, I've gone back ten, 15, even 20 years in the past to something that I thought was trash at the time. And all of a sudden it means something different. There's a new context for it or I it fits into this song. I love the idea of stealing from your sense.

00:46:42:15 - 00:47:04:41
Unknown
I. I mean, there's a trope, you know, good artists borrow and great artists steal, and, you know, it's it's misattributed, all over the internet. But, stealing from yourself, taking the bridge. That was the only good thing in the song you're trying to write and plugging it into the one that you don't have a bridge for.

00:47:04:41 - 00:47:26:40
Unknown
It can really work. So, So, yes, I keep, kind of. There's a depository here, right where it is called, where I keep that stuff in. And, and I encourage my students to do the same. You just never know what's going to be there. I try not to go back and look at it often, because it's sort of.

00:47:26:45 - 00:47:49:12
Unknown
It can be painful to revisit an earlier version of yourself. Okay. But yeah, there's, I've almost never I've almost never not come away. I almost always come away with something. It's kind of like your younger self kind of giving you. Yeah. You know, you can look at it that way and kind of say, hey, thanks. You know, Liam at 20.

00:47:49:16 - 00:48:12:59
Unknown
Yeah. You know. Exactly. I mean, it's it's time traveling in a in a very positive way. And, well, we have gone through so many good things we've had, it wasn't the plane was a police helicopter. We know you were in Chicago. It's real. I want to thank you. And I've had such a good time talking to you, and I've learned so much.

00:48:13:03 - 00:48:49:34
Unknown
It's just hearing how you go about things. Writing. And you folks, you have a wonderful potential mentor right here in your life that you can reach out to. And obviously, you have an ear for the business. You know, anybody that can be shopping and listening to get down on it, and by googling the gang and, and knowing that the, the, the, the bass, you know, the tom is or the, the bass drum is something that I love that, because that's, that's the blessing and the curse of being an engineer.

00:48:49:37 - 00:49:14:35
Unknown
So, you know, you can't those you can't go to a concert and just listen to, you know, you have to listen. And it's a it's a blessing and a curse. But play us out with, a song, anyone that you want. And again, thank you so much. And, guys, thank you for tuning in. And, we'll be back with, something else next week, but let's have Liam play us out.

00:49:14:41 - 00:49:38:29
Unknown
Thank you so much. Well, thank you, Marty. I have to say, it's just been a pleasure. And an honor. And really, truly. Thank you. So, I'm just going to float this out there. One of the other tricks that I use is, like you're saying, we have to kind of sometimes trick ourselves into, unlocking your creative potential.

00:49:38:34 - 00:49:57:43
Unknown
One of the things that I use is the depending or the alias. And this, is a song that I wrote for a band that I made up. So I wrote this, for a band called The Diff, which I decided would have been active in the, Boston, Massachusetts area in the late 70s, early 80s.

00:49:57:54 - 00:50:03:19
Unknown
I love it, I love it, and, so this great idea, this is called, Can't Stop Tonight.

00:50:03:19 - 00:50:18:11
Unknown
My,

00:50:18:16 - 00:50:24:30
Unknown
Every morning, a window closes in my mind.

00:50:24:35 - 00:50:34:04
Unknown
I can't even begin. So I just pull the blinds.

00:50:34:09 - 00:50:40:27
Unknown
I've been looking at strangers in the afternoon.

00:50:40:32 - 00:50:46:55
Unknown
And I know that a change is coming pretty soon.

00:50:47:00 - 00:51:05:55
Unknown
There's a crack in the sidewalk where the sun go down. I'll be waiting for you in case you come around. Cause I can't stop tonight. Can't stop tonight.

00:51:06:00 - 00:51:12:45
Unknown
No, I can't stop tonight I can't stop tonight.

00:51:12:50 - 00:51:35:57
Unknown
I know that tomorrow will weigh heavy on my hands. But I can't stop I can't stop tonight. No I can't stop I can't stop tonight.

00:51:36:02 - 00:51:42:31
Unknown
Everybody's a master of their own design.

00:51:42:36 - 00:51:52:15
Unknown
Acting every disaster out. And tonight.

00:51:52:20 - 00:52:05:30
Unknown
You can call me a miracle. You can call me friend. As the twilight draws near I can save you.

00:52:05:35 - 00:52:50:49
Unknown
There's a light in the sky I see it dying down. I'll be waiting for you until you come around. Cause I can't stop tonight I can't stop tonight. No, I can't stop tonight I can't stop tonight. Yes, I know that tomorrow it will be all my. But I can't stop I can't stop tonight I can't stop I can't stop tonight.

00:52:50:54 - 00:53:08:14
Unknown
No, I can't stop I can't stop, no I can't stop I can't stop I can't stop I can't stop tonight.

00:53:08:19 - 00:53:13:34
Unknown
I.

00:53:14:40 - 00:53:38:57
Unknown
Awesome. I can hear it. My God. The band, the death. What a great idea. So I lied. He didn't play it out. We're talking about, one last good point, songwriters. You know, create a fictional thing to to address your, your emotion forward. And I think, you can go far. Thank you again, Liam. We'll we'll have you back.

00:53:39:02 - 00:53:43:55
Unknown
Yeah. And we'll see you guys. Bye bye.

00:53:43:55 - 00:54:01:38
Unknown
Thank you for listening. For more information about this show or a transcript, visit Martin mccormack.com while there. Sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung Out.

00:54:01:43 - 00:54:14:30
Unknown
It's so strong. Spain, we feel, makes no sense at all. The swan song wasn't part of the deal, was no good. All giving no choice. Giving us a.