Strung Out Episode 256: JIM TASHJIAN-- ON HIS TERMS

In our media-saturated world, it is easy to overlook the many artists that thrive without labels, without big tours, without all the hoopla and soap opera intrigue that accompanies "success" these days.  These individuals thrive on their own terms, and such is the multi-talented songwriter, guitarist and band mate of several successful independent groups, Jim Tashjian.  Tashjian started out studying jazz guitar in university, which brought him into many different musical projects.  He drifted toward, pop and rock, drawn by the interest of songwriting.  Bands like District 97, Miss Remember, Storm Jameson are but a few of the music groups that Tashjian has had a commanding hand in.  This interview gave Jim a chance to showcase his talents, talk about his background and delve a bit into what he feels is success.  That success is firmly on his own terms, a good study for those of us who want to chart their own course in the music business.  You can follow Jim at https://www.facebook.com/jim.tashjian.

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:14:44
Unknown
Welcome to Strung Out, the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist. Your host is the artist, writer and musician Martin Lawrence McCormack. Now here's Marty.

00:00:14:44 - 00:00:31:51
Unknown
Welcome to Strung Out. And, first of all, I want to make sure I got your last name right. It's catchy and catching. Yeah. Testing. Yeah. What is that? It's Armenian. Armenian? Yeah. Okay. That's really, it sounds like, a musician's last name.

00:00:31:53 - 00:00:55:23
Unknown
Okay. All right. I'm it's, it's caused me a lot of difficulties in life. For instance, second grade classroom, opening day. But, but, you know, it's it's a unique one. So I think when people see it. Yeah, they remember it maybe. Yeah. And and so like. Tasha. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's the, it's, Americanized, like they took some letters out of it because, like, I think it's like originally it was pronouncing ashes in or something like that.

00:00:55:23 - 00:01:13:31
Unknown
Yeah, but, testing it's test. And usually if you see that like, consonant and letter wrong at the end of a name, it usually means Armenian. So like a manifest version. He's a, he's a commentator. Like an LP announcer. Right. Or like it just they all seem to be in baseball, but like Tim Kurkjian is also an ESPN baseball guy.

00:01:13:34 - 00:01:36:10
Unknown
Those you see like g and or and I and usually that's an Armenian. Let's name something and you know the the Armenians a musical nation I believe. Yeah I believe yeah, they're probably you know, I can't say I've checked out a ton of Armenian folk music, but, I would assume it's a lot like that Balkan odd meter dance music.

00:01:36:10 - 00:01:54:14
Unknown
So. Yeah, stuff. And, clarinet and stringed instruments and pretty cool stuff. Yeah. You know that little wagon, you know? Yeah, I think it's awesome. Yeah. Have you, have you had a chance to get back over there? No, I have nothing like relatives there. I don't know, because of the, there was a a large genocide when the Ottoman Empire.

00:01:54:14 - 00:02:15:40
Unknown
Kind of like most of the people out there. That's actually what happened to my grandfather. He was the oldest, came over when he was about 14, I think, to the states to visit relatives in Philadelphia and, learn to speak English and kind of get me out. And by the time he got there, he got word that the Ottomans had, like, basically liquidated their entire village.

00:02:15:40 - 00:02:33:27
Unknown
And almost everybody was killed. Wow. He look, he kind of realized suddenly he was in the Americas and didn't have a home to go back to and was kind of just like, here we go. So he said, you know, like, I believe like a first grade English class for two years, just like listening to wanting to speak English because they didn't really have a school they could put him in.

00:02:33:27 - 00:02:53:13
Unknown
So he just kind of sat in the back of the classroom and picked up what he could until he could speak English well enough to get a job. What an amazing story. And, you know, I mean, the the Armenian Genocide is just one of those things that, like, a lot of genocides, the perpetrators want to kind of just roll over, you know?

00:02:53:17 - 00:03:15:56
Unknown
Yeah. And, it was able to be done a lot quieter back in those days. And, that when the news of the of the situation wasn't getting out daily. Exactly. Now we live in an era where you know that that kind, kind of stuff, sadly still goes on, but we're not, we're not here. We're not going to delve too deep into that, or else, Gemini will get both depressed.

00:03:15:56 - 00:03:33:26
Unknown
Yeah. Why don't you start us in with the song? Give us give this one of your originals, and, and we'll we'll take it from there. Go. What's what's the name of it? The song is called Arms folded. Arms folded. Okay.

00:03:41:28 - 00:04:05:54
Unknown
Crooked snakes. Why don't you it. There's some light in your den, you crooked snakes. Soon you'll be frozen. There's sunlight killing in your won't.

00:04:05:59 - 00:04:30:29
Unknown
My way for your chance. No harm to come here.

00:04:30:34 - 00:04:55:00
Unknown
Got in slow, hopelessly sorry. On instruction below is the rains. Still a great small success. You still on the way to man with my.

00:04:55:04 - 00:05:01:57
Unknown
Why won't you grow? You charm.

00:05:02:02 - 00:05:30:05
Unknown
No chance to talk. Careless is my love. My the. To fulfill your heart. For most your claustrophobia right?

00:05:30:10 - 00:05:39:25
Unknown
000.

00:05:39:29 - 00:06:14:59
Unknown
Come, let me, my love. Oh man. In your heart and no heart for me. Let my heart is my heart. To fulfill your charm. The charm so dense. How can I.

00:06:15:04 - 00:06:21:54
Unknown
How long I missed.

00:06:21:59 - 00:06:28:52
Unknown
Next time.

00:06:28:56 - 00:06:49:34
Unknown
Did no trial for.

00:06:49:39 - 00:06:56:30
Unknown
Her on my.

00:06:56:34 - 00:07:10:15
Unknown
Her. I'm small. Just nobody else. Next time you.

00:07:10:20 - 00:07:23:52
Unknown
Will find the one who will.

00:07:25:36 - 00:07:54:04
Unknown
Very cool. Thank you. Very cool. Warm it up a little bit. So. Yeah. It reminds me of, there's at first a little bit of a Buckley, Jeff Buckley, kind of that, you know, with the guitar that, you know, they don't know, you know, but then there's, there's other, influences in there, but it's, but I can't put my finger on, you know, what it is, but, it's it's really cool.

00:07:54:04 - 00:08:18:05
Unknown
And. Thanks. Did I hear that line correctly? Next time, they'll find a poet. Yeah. Love it. So, I want to know about that song. But I want to also get into your background. Well, we started off talking about your Armenian roots, and are you did you grow up around here in Chicago?

00:08:18:05 - 00:08:40:21
Unknown
Did your grandfather set roots? And then, my my grandfather eventually moved to Riverside, California, where my father was born. And my mom, grew up in Champaign, but moved to, San Diego when she was about 16. So. Okay, so all my family was in California. But no, my my parents moved here shortly before I was born, like 84 or something like that.

00:08:40:26 - 00:08:57:53
Unknown
The northwest suburbs of in Kerry. Okay. So I'm from Trump Valley, which is a small subdivision like it's own village. Technically in within Kerry with Kerry is like the Concord. I grew up in Woodstock. Okay, I know exactly where you're at. That's, that's a nice area because it's still got a little bit of the rural.

00:08:57:53 - 00:09:21:07
Unknown
Yeah to it, you know, you in your family, you live. Were you the only musician? Were you, like, a prodigy, or was there something that happened? Well, my parents, thankfully, were very, my dad played trumpet and, you know, would call himself a musician, but he was, you know, he was the guy that was always singing the ridiculous harmonies along with the Beatles records and stuff in the car.

00:09:21:08 - 00:09:43:33
Unknown
We're just like, dad, come on. There's there's four. There's three of them singing already. I think they got it. But, you know, just that kind of, unabashed and, just thing, I think maybe open something for me to be like, yeah, it's okay to try things. Yeah. He played trumpet in college. My mom played piano, and then they kind of, our parents kind of started us all on piano, which I think is a really smart thing to do for kids.

00:09:43:33 - 00:10:01:07
Unknown
I think if they take to it, then, then you can buy a guitar. But, yeah, especially in those days when everybody had piano in their house. But, those sadly, that's maybe not the case anymore. But yeah, I started on piano and, my brother Peter is a professional drummer, and my brother John is a professional, singer and piano player.

00:10:01:07 - 00:10:23:41
Unknown
He does a lot of, like, piano bars stuff, like doing dueling pianos and how at the moon. My sister Sally is a really great, maybe the best technical piano player of us. She doesn't do it professionally, but she took she stuck with piano lessons and classical piano longer than any of us. And my sister Laura is, a she directs the plays at the high school, and she she was came up through the choirs and stuff and sang.

00:10:23:41 - 00:10:47:16
Unknown
But she's more of the acting persuasion now. And my brother in law, Patrick, was actually my jazz teacher in high school, and my sister was kind of like interning there at the time they met and got married, but I knew him first as my teacher, who kind of opened the doors of like, fusion and kind of that next step past rock music that you remind him about that I think had Patrick listen that.

00:10:47:17 - 00:11:11:47
Unknown
Yeah, that's I think what I thank him often for. Yes. Kind of opening up my ears and my perspective to a lot of things. But to answer to long story short, there are a lot of there's a lot of music in my family. How wonderful that is. That I mean, that, you had all this, art percolating around and, you know, there was nobody obviously saying to you, hey, listen, Jim, you know, you ever think about being an accountant?

00:11:11:58 - 00:11:30:04
Unknown
Yeah. You know, that kind of thing? Yeah. You know, well, my dad was an accountant by trade, and so, you know, he was just always of the like, if you work hard and you think realistically about how you can earn a living doing something like, I think he never doubted my ability to do that. And I think that's important.

00:11:30:09 - 00:11:43:44
Unknown
And, I always think I was always as different than my brothers and sisters in a way that, I didn't really have to be told to practice. And that's not really true. Eating my own horn. It was more just like wanting to be reclusive, like I just. Yeah, when I was young, I was really into magic.

00:11:43:44 - 00:12:01:33
Unknown
And so, like, it started out like I kind of just had these phases of, like, I'd get really interesting, interested in something. And then I would go to my room and just kind of work on it for hours and days. We're talking about magical tricks. Yeah, like Harry Potter. No, no, no, not like Magic The Gathering. But, that was actually probably before my time, but for after my time.

00:12:01:37 - 00:12:22:21
Unknown
But, yeah, just like sleight of hand or card tricks, I think I went to SeaWorld and saw a magician and, like, just absolutely blew me away. And so they'd be like, Where's Jim? And he was upstairs practicing, like, water trick or something, and I would come down and perform for everyone and once I switched from piano, figure to I played bass actually for like two years because my brother John played guitar.

00:12:22:25 - 00:12:35:24
Unknown
And so I was like, oh, play bass, a little Paul McCartney. And so I said, yeah, I do that. We rented a bass, I started there, the rental on my bass ran out at the same time that my brother decided to quit playing guitar. My dad had bought him an amp and a guitar. He was like, what do you think?

00:12:35:24 - 00:12:54:23
Unknown
We have a guitar next? And I was like, yeah, that sounds cool. And so he had the guitar on the amp already and he's like, we'll just return this bass. That's a rental. And now you have a guitar. And oh, that's very, that's very interesting. Is your brother, but he still plays. You still plays. Yeah. And and does he ever say to you,

00:12:54:28 - 00:13:13:28
Unknown
You're welcome. Or does he say, hey, listen, man, you know, you owe me. Yeah, I got my. Can I get can I get it back? He doesn't, but he, But he we we play together a lot. We have a band called the Holy Cows that's like a bar band cover band that played, like, at miracles, which is right down the street from Wrigley on.

00:13:13:28 - 00:13:36:00
Unknown
Clark, there a lot we know the owner of the place. We grew up with him and your valley. And, so for probably 12 or 15 years, me, Pete and John will play and I play bass, and we just do like, we take requests and play rock tunes and stuff. And, after the Cubs games on Fridays, the games, and it gets raucous and crazy in there and we just, you know, get people didn't against each other for is your family still out there and your family is.

00:13:36:07 - 00:13:58:18
Unknown
Yeah. My sister, my youngest sister just bought a house there right down the street from where my mom lives. And my sister, my older sister and brother in law live in the house we grew up in because my dad left. When he passed away, he left the house to all of us, and the only person that made sense to kind of take it over as the, kind of, you know, caretaker was my brother in law and sister because they did teach at the high school and carry me.

00:13:58:23 - 00:14:15:19
Unknown
So we were just kind of like, you know, things when something sudden like that happens and everyone's just kind of like, I don't want to deal with logistics or whatever. And my sister really kind of stepped up and handled all that was like, all right, we're going to sell our condo in Algonquin. We'll just move in here. We'll all have a hub that we can come back to and so that's really nice.

00:14:15:19 - 00:14:45:17
Unknown
So, you're in McHenry County? Yes. One fellow McHenry County. And, I knew there was something about you. Yeah. Just right there. I said, man, musical ability. And from McHenry County, you. Yeah, it's really kind of neat. And I, I'm not trying to make light of it because, I feel that McHenry County and and, there's a lot of, musical opportunities out there that people don't really realize.

00:14:45:17 - 00:15:05:38
Unknown
Yeah. The, Cougar High School is it has a renowned arts program. Yes. Point. They, you know, I don't I don't really know the, they've won awards state, you know, state productions for stuff and and the plays and musicals both, are really highly regarded because they have some great teachers there that really take it seriously.

00:15:05:39 - 00:15:39:55
Unknown
And, the choir program was great, and I just I learned a lot about music in that program, and especially coming out of junior high. I remember in eighth grade, I walked over to the high school, kind of like in May of my eighth grade year when I knew the summer was coming, and next year I was going to be in high school, and I met with Patrick, and he just kind of we had a conversation about Improvization and just the idea of like so many musics have, have used the, the jazz, you know, format of like, you know, improv, improvising over forms and stuff and, and just the idea of communication through listening and

00:15:39:55 - 00:16:02:28
Unknown
how, like, you don't really have to put a label on it because, you know, I was just kind of looking for something the next step of, you know, listening to a lot of fusion and like, yeah, sampling already digesting all that stuff and like kind of and he kind of opened up the doors of like, this is all based on blues and like, you can play a strict form where you're improvising over it, or you can just create your own forms and do free improvization.

00:16:02:33 - 00:16:21:04
Unknown
And like basically from the start of my jazz education, we had Mondays where we were leading through the third and seventh of the blues, and Friday we would turn the lights off, burning incense and just like playing free for 40 minutes. Oh that's great. And yes, I think it was just like the to, you know, trying to get to the middle of those two perspectives.

00:16:21:04 - 00:16:49:18
Unknown
And you're still in high school at this point. Yeah, I was a freshman that I started doing it. And how fantastic. I mean really informed, you know, that and you know, Patrick, what what a good teacher, the most American of all art forms, I think, you know, is jazz, man. Improvization is something he's correct that every other genre imbibed, you know, I mean, even Irish music, probably Armenian.

00:16:49:33 - 00:17:15:47
Unknown
You know, they're probably out there going, oh, okay, well, you know what? I'm going to I'm going to do this riff. You know, they take off and but up to that point, you, you did as you were told or as tradition dictated and and you are kind of, you know, it's one thing I really enjoy about doing little research on you is you, you know, you you've gone into a lot of different genres.

00:17:15:52 - 00:17:40:48
Unknown
Where did you go to college? Did you go to college or were you like, you know, tell us about that phase? And did you at this point, it sounds to me like by freshman year high school, you're like, I think I'm going to be a musician. Yeah, I was pretty, pretty certain at that point my I had a really good band with my brother and two friends in high school that, kind of started as, playing at someone's birthday party sort of thing.

00:17:40:48 - 00:18:00:47
Unknown
And it really clicked and we kind of all just kind of seemingly took it very seriously right from the beginning of like, and we we developed a big following among our friends and like, neighborhood and like, you know, Crystal Lake high schoolers and stuff like that where we could play parties or like, you know, 4th of July festivals and stuff, where we would play in the bandstand.

00:18:00:47 - 00:18:16:33
Unknown
And we really felt good about it. And there was like an inkling of maybe we should forego college for a little bit and see if we could, because that was a big part of the jam and scene was really thriving at that time, and we were really into that stuff. I would say we were composition adventurous even for that genre.

00:18:16:33 - 00:18:36:16
Unknown
And so that was and the keyboard player was just kind of a person that I latched on to really quickly. It's like we could sit down and be like, I have this part of the song and you have that part of the song, and by the end of it, we had written like a really cool song that just combined our two ideas together and so I was looking, know, looking for my John Lennon basically.

00:18:36:16 - 00:18:53:57
Unknown
And and so we would write a lot of cool music and thought about maybe seeing if we could tour around and do some of that stuff and just for a matter of a number of circumstances, just seemed like maybe it wasn't the best idea. And his parents were not very open to that idea. So I knew college was going to be the thing.

00:18:53:57 - 00:19:20:13
Unknown
So I went to the Chicago College Performing Arts at Roosevelt University. My mom taught my mom. She was an administrator at Roosevelt for many years. And because of that, their association with the Chicago College Performing Arts, I got tuition remission. So I did not have to pay. I sent my auditions to, like, Berklee and stuff, and it was it was more of the idea of being one of 750 guitar players there, plus the amount of money I would have had to pay.

00:19:20:18 - 00:19:37:06
Unknown
And I was just kind of like, John McLean. I don't know if you're familiar with him. He's a guitar player here in town. I had seen him play because he taught at North Central College, and we would go up with the jazz combo to see, like, him and Jack Mouse and Larry Kogut and Janis Burleigh. Perform like, faculty concert every year.

00:19:37:06 - 00:20:04:13
Unknown
And I was just like, man, I mean, I could study with this guy. He teaches at Chicago College Performing Arts. I could go to college for free and study with John McLean. And it was kind of a no brainer for me. Yeah. And so I did. So we did that. Met a lot of really cool people there. And but one of the things I like to do on this podcast is promote the fact that we have it here in Chicago, you know, and, and, and the fact that Roosevelt, I don't know how long has a, you know, School of Performing Arts been around?

00:20:04:17 - 00:20:28:43
Unknown
I think it was the Chicago Musical College. Before that in I'm not 100% sure. I know, at least since, like, the 70s, it's, And then they were kind of absorbed it through, you know, however, that stuff works with accreditation or or whatever. And they basically became like, Roosevelt is now like five separate colleges, you know, like they have like the, psychology college or something like that.

00:20:28:43 - 00:20:54:32
Unknown
And then like the Chicago College of Performing Arts is just kind of under their umbrella. Well, let me ask you this. You know, you hear you are you getting this great jazz education? You, you got, really good teachers in that, influencing you, from high school now up at Roosevelt. Did anybody ever say to you, hey, listen, Jim, this is what you have to do in order to be a full time musician.

00:20:54:37 - 00:21:12:32
Unknown
I think that one thing when I showed up, I think I was, I, you know, I was pretty good at that point at me and John McLean really, like, hit it off. And and he would he, he treated me from the beginning a lot like a peer. And I think that he was just kind of like, listen, you have one glaring weakness in your playing, which is sight reading.

00:21:12:32 - 00:21:37:37
Unknown
And as most guitar players have have that issue, he's like, if you really want like he's like, that's really what we should focus on. But of course on down to talk about whatever you want to talk about. But he's like, if if you really want to, you know, to get out there and work. But this was also kind of like a time when the studio, the idea of showing up to a studio and sight reading a chart was like starting to fade away from being like a real regular source of of a gig.

00:21:37:37 - 00:21:59:55
Unknown
And so we did do a lot of reading and stuff like that. But, you know, still not a good sign. It's always a challenge. I mean, it's solfege and all that other stuff. I mean, it's, Well, thank God I'm still working on that. I think I'll hold my dying breath. Will be, you know, so well. But let's get another number.

00:22:00:00 - 00:22:27:29
Unknown
And, and then after that, we'll take a little break. And, we're listening to dim Blair, listening to Jim Tashian. And I see that. Right? Yes. Tashian. And, and Jim, Tashian is, primarily a jazz guitarist, but also a writer. I would say I'm more primarily a singer songwriter now that I am a jazz guitarist, because that was my training, but I just not lost interest.

00:22:27:29 - 00:22:46:59
Unknown
But I've just kind of like, put that more in my back pocket. Everything I do, you know, I do a lot more song, music and stuff of the pop, rock and folk variety now than I would say jazz, but we'll talk about that, after, after we do the break. What's this next song? This song is called Margaret Ellis, Margaret Ellis, Margaret Ellis I wrote this song for my mom.

00:22:47:03 - 00:22:48:14
Unknown
Nice. Okay.

00:23:12:02 - 00:23:22:45
Unknown
Margaret. I'll listen. You have to hear. Yeah. You say that everywhere.

00:23:22:50 - 00:23:33:29
Unknown
Then I'll let you, Listen to the town. I love you more than you love.

00:23:33:33 - 00:23:44:07
Unknown
For me, with all the ways and my soul. You will be.

00:23:44:12 - 00:23:54:38
Unknown
Is home to the few things you can do. Need to be.

00:23:54:43 - 00:24:15:20
Unknown
What was taught was love. God. Home. To.

00:24:15:25 - 00:24:25:02
Unknown
You.

00:24:25:06 - 00:24:35:58
Unknown
Paul. Alice. You're not far away. I see you every day.

00:24:36:03 - 00:24:46:09
Unknown
He beside you some more. You go to his, lonely. Happy to.

00:24:46:14 - 00:25:04:05
Unknown
What was taught was not lost on me. I know you did. Grab me five time before.

00:25:04:09 - 00:25:10:42
Unknown
You could.

00:25:10:47 - 00:25:22:14
Unknown
Pick.

00:25:22:19 - 00:25:32:57
Unknown
On. This won't help you. You say that you be.

00:25:33:02 - 00:25:43:38
Unknown
Have you found all that you're looking for? Do something for me.

00:25:43:43 - 00:26:08:27
Unknown
I think you're really pretty happy here. That you, for all the things you think. When I met you, I appreciate the town. I love you more than.

00:26:08:32 - 00:26:19:28
Unknown
I love you more than.

00:26:20:21 - 00:26:35:47
Unknown
Very cool song. Very cool song. We're gonna. I'm gonna ask you some questions about it after the break. Sure. Hey, guys, you're not strung out, and we'll be back with Jim just after this brief break.

00:26:35:47 - 00:26:59:26
Unknown
Hey. Want to show your support of Martin's artist endeavors? Buy Me a Coffee is an online site that makes supporting Marty easy. In just a few tabs, you can make a payment of any amount and no account is needed. You can also decide to become an ongoing supporter. Go to Martin mccormack.com and click on the words support. Mark.

00:26:59:31 - 00:27:07:31
Unknown
Let's help Martin keep it all caffeinated.

00:27:07:31 - 00:27:31:00
Unknown
Hey. We're back. And, you, you know, before we we got to the, you playing that last song? Margaret Ellis. Very beautiful song about your mom. I kind of like the, there's something very, I get the the feeling of, like, a summer day kind of feeling, you know, with the the way and and really nice, work on the bridge.

00:27:31:03 - 00:27:52:40
Unknown
Oh. Thank you. I love the chords that you're doing on it. It's a thoughtful bridge. It's not one of these, like, you know, meaning, you know, like, we jump up a fifth, you know? I mean, it's very cool. You know, you kind of mentioned to me that, you hear the jazz upbringing, and then you kind of found yourself as a songwriter.

00:27:52:47 - 00:28:20:29
Unknown
Yeah. So I want I want you to delve into that. And has your mom heard that song? She has her? Yeah. What does. She said she liked it. Very good. Okay, well, as long as mama. Yes. Got to keep mom happy. She's very touched. I think that's really cool. And, The second podcast, we're going to get a little more into how you get influenced and what makes you write, but I want the listener to kind of follow the trajectory of your career thus far.

00:28:20:29 - 00:28:41:35
Unknown
So here you go. You know, you're, you're coming out of Roosevelt. You've had all this jazz training, and all of a sudden, well, it kind of started happening toward the end of my time at, Roosevelt. I so, you know, I can't I all through high school and all through my younger days, I was singing and playing rock music in a band and writing songs and singing.

00:28:41:35 - 00:29:10:05
Unknown
And once I kind of focused on jazz guitar for basically like 2 or 3 years in college, I really wasn't doing any singing at all. And so I was really focused on that and just technique and like, getting good at play and playing jazz. But then I bought an acoustic guitar, like, I kind of had a nice parlor size acoustic guitar that, I love to, like, kind of throw into some weird alternate tunings and, like, just kind of write songs in there.

00:29:10:05 - 00:29:34:41
Unknown
I was pretty inspired by this guitar player, Ben Maunder, who, you know, has kind of like a cello based tuning that's a lot of his music is composed, which I think is also kind of derived from a Robert Fripp tuning. But, you know, it's not not a unique thing. Lots of guitar players have messed around with, tuning, but kind of like a fifth space tuning from C that was like kind of opening up these really wide voicings and like, open strum things that were really inspiring to me.

00:29:34:41 - 00:29:56:48
Unknown
So I was doing a lot of that and had kind of started it all as, as instrumental music. But I met Leslie Buchanan there at school around that time, and she had done so much great wordless singing, like, and Ben Mander also has this great vocalist, Phil Blackman, who sings all wordless singing, just singing the melodies.

00:29:56:48 - 00:30:19:39
Unknown
And I was very, very enthused by the sound of like voice with guitar, unison melodies, not necessarily singing lyrics, just kind of like the sound of the human voice. Kind of cool. Yeah, it's very cool. And so Leslie was just had this amazing voice, amazing facility. The, the desire to learn people's music. She was fully willing to give her time to do it.

00:30:19:44 - 00:30:39:05
Unknown
So for my junior composition project, I decided to just do all my original music, that I'd been writing and having her sing some of the melodies, and that's kind of where it started. And that's we formed a band eventually called Treehouse. And, and slowly as she was singing, I started to be like, okay, I can sing more.

00:30:39:05 - 00:31:00:35
Unknown
And I would start to sing. It kind of felt once I was writing lyrics, it felt strange to not sing your own lyrics. Basically, I, I got to a point and just like if this is really my something that I'm trying to say I should do, I should say it more myself. So then we started harmonizing a lot and I started singing lead and she started singing lead, and that's kind of where it started.

00:31:00:40 - 00:31:24:58
Unknown
And that was an acoustic project. And then that band kind of morphed because of, there was another band formed called tree House, and then there was a time where we both got, but we both had a double booking at the double door, where the person thought they were booking me, and then they got confused, and then there was an overlap, and then we had to cancel the gig because they didn't know which band was supposed to be on the bill.

00:31:25:07 - 00:31:45:32
Unknown
So I finally reached out to them and I was like, do you think we could work something out here? You know, we've been around longer. They were not they didn't want to do it. So I changed, but I ended up moving. I was also experiencing, experimenting with those tunings on electric guitar at that point. And as you might have some experience with playing acoustic guitar in rock clubs is a nightmare.

00:31:45:32 - 00:32:00:02
Unknown
And, especially tough, especially with drums and bass. Yeah. So I was getting very fed up with feedback and like, not really able to get being able to get a reliably good sound live. Were using this. You know, this is this is pretty new to me. And my other one this doesn't have a pickup. Is that a Taylor or what.

00:32:00:04 - 00:32:20:29
Unknown
It's a Collings. Oh okay. Very nice. Thank you. Very beautiful guitar. Thank you so much. Great tone. Who makes comments? Colleagues there? As far as I'm concerned, the greatest, guitar company. Yeah. Well, this is good to know. Where are they? They're out of Austin, Texas. Austin, Texas. Okay. And this is a guitar I've been basically waiting to buy.

00:32:20:29 - 00:32:39:07
Unknown
For the better part. It looks like it looks to me like a Taylor, but it's is a based on a Taylor. It's based on a more, like a Martin or something. Okay. Yeah. All right. So and this is, you know, I have a really nice layer band that's been my main acoustic for some time. Was that was the acoustic I bought that kind of, fueled the composition project.

00:32:39:20 - 00:33:01:34
Unknown
Once I bought a full size that could handle these tunings, and it was very inspiring. And a lot of music came out of that. So did you know it's, I know exactly the whole treehouse dilemma. With our band switchback, we, you know, we had to get the name. We had the name trademarked because so many people started taking switchback.

00:33:01:34 - 00:33:20:29
Unknown
And even even now, people use will take it. And then you have to go cease and desist. And, sometimes it's better just to go by your own name. I have a feeling. Yeah, it was, we I that I should have trademarked it. At that time. It was not trademarked. I did, you know, I was a 22 year old kid, and just.

00:33:20:30 - 00:33:39:11
Unknown
It was like, whatever. And it bit me. But, since then, and I've reformed, you know, with the same change, the band name kind of changed the, the sound a little bit because it would be more electric. I received like a cease and desist from another band called tree House that that has since trademarked it. And I was like, I don't use that name anymore, so I don't worry about it.

00:33:39:11 - 00:34:04:51
Unknown
But it was funny. They they were the third band and they had the thought, let's just trademark this so we can get rid eventually. Yeah, eventually. But you know, and unfortunately. Yes. Trademark your name, being prepared to defend it, if you can. And just remember, there's a bunch of million people out there that don't pay any attention to that, and they'll they'll trample over it, but persist.

00:34:04:55 - 00:34:22:45
Unknown
But you have a kind of a cool last name, so. Yeah, you could just you could form the tension and everybody would be like, hey, it's you. But yeah, but, I digress. So you here you are. You know, yeah, I get it. You can't play an acoustic guitar with, in, a rock setting.

00:34:22:45 - 00:34:41:58
Unknown
You can, we have and, but, I mean, it's difficult and and we drummers usually kill you. Yeah. It was just getting to the point of, like, it had to be the right room, you know, like playing someplace at the tonic room or something was great, but a big stage with a, you know, a lot of some feedback and stuff.

00:34:41:58 - 00:35:01:33
Unknown
It was just becoming a problem. And so the main thing was, the name and like the sound was starting to change, like, let's kind of rebrand and then it, I was really starting to enjoy, playing electric with those low tunings too, right? Like, I, you know, like a lot of bass response and stuff. That was cool.

00:35:01:34 - 00:35:24:39
Unknown
I'm like, do you still like to use those little tunings? I do, yeah, okay. So I mean, is this this is this tuned, a normal tuning, right? Yeah. I'm actually in, D-flat in E-flat standard in dropped. Okay. So. Okay. Yeah, yeah, it's got a great song and, very nice. So. Work with me here.

00:35:24:44 - 00:35:44:08
Unknown
You, then reform the band. Into what band? Because, I mean, you're in, like, a myriad different. Yeah. Ensembles. Right. So that's my band that with my songs and we we we changed our name to misremember, and. Okay. So now we have, we have one record under that name. We have one tree house record and one Mr. Member record.

00:35:44:13 - 00:36:01:47
Unknown
Those are only then kept for. Want to check them out? I stand by them. I think they're good. You'll you'll hear the difference in the sound. The first one being. And how can people access to, Bandcamp. Jim Tashian at Bandcamp. Okay, here you go, guys. So, mystery member is kind of a cool name.

00:36:01:47 - 00:36:22:58
Unknown
Thank you. Did you trademarked yet? Okay. But it's, you know, get in there. It's. You do it. I took it from the. I don't know if you remember when Roger Clemens was, was being prodded for his steroid usage during the baseball. Some of the, so he had a memorable quote where they asked him, do you remember this guy giving you these drugs?

00:36:22:58 - 00:36:38:03
Unknown
And he's like, no, I don't think, well, what do you say to the guy that said that? It's like, I think he's misremembering what happened. And I'm a big guy. I'm a big, baseball fan. So I, I kind of that's kind of my little ode to one of the greatest pitchers of my lifetime. And that's what he's.

00:36:38:08 - 00:36:54:31
Unknown
That's awesome. That's what I always I think it's great that that that goes to Roger Clemens. Yeah. I mean, that's that's pretty funny. We changed it to, like, a woman's name, so like miss remember? So it's like. And also it kind of reminded me of those like, Little Miss books that I don't know if you're familiar with those.

00:36:54:31 - 00:37:12:54
Unknown
They were like these little white books like Little Miss Angry or like, oh, yes, or, you know, Mr. Late or like Mr. Tardy, they were all these, like, crude drawings of these little books. I got them for my daughters, you know, they reminded me of that books, but like, and, you know, so, it's a full time thing for you or.

00:37:12:54 - 00:37:35:16
Unknown
I mean, how how are you juggling, all these different things? And it is by juggling all these different things is that's what you know, is that earning you, a full time musical career? Yeah. Well, I with Leslie, we run a jobbing band through a company called Beat Mix that does, like, corporate events, weddings and all that stuff, like a society band, I guess they call them on the East Coast.

00:37:35:21 - 00:38:08:04
Unknown
And, you know, that's that's the way you make actual money playing music. These days, in my experience, because I've done a lot of touring with district 97 and stuff, and we do. We're a profitable band, and that's very impressive because of the niche kind of music style and everything. But our band leader and drummer Jonathan Chang is like kind of good at all the things most artists are not good at, like bothering people, an email like, you know, following up on emails when you don't get a response, like not being afraid to send that for a follow up email.

00:38:08:16 - 00:38:26:14
Unknown
As a business person, he's a good business person. And, most of us artists are not. Why is that, do you think? I don't know. And for me personally, it's just like it feels. You know, I have so many friends that are so talented and it just feels weird to, like, have to promote yourself and seem so, so simple.

00:38:26:14 - 00:38:47:11
Unknown
But. So I just don't have that. Maybe it's confidence. I don't know what it is, but it's like, yeah. I mean, I don't have a ready answer myself. I think part of it is, is just we're we're is as artists, we're taught all be creative, be creative, be creative. But nobody ever really turns around and says to you, yeah.

00:38:47:16 - 00:39:13:08
Unknown
You know, if you're going to go out into this field, you got to know, you know, a thing about taxes. You gotta know a thing about how to run a business. You gotta know a thing about, you know, expenses. And, you're you're learning. So, Roosevelt prepared you to be a great musician, and then you go out and you have to go to the school of hard knocks to of learn how to become a game musician.

00:39:13:13 - 00:39:36:36
Unknown
Right. So you have you have the corporate, band, the society band that, seems to, sounds like it's doing a good job for you. Yeah. And that's that's feeding your passion. Right. And congratulations on using music to feed your passion rather than, like, you know, not to say it's wrong. I mean, there are people that, you know, will work gigs, to to to feed their passion.

00:39:36:36 - 00:39:55:47
Unknown
But to be able to do it with music and be able to do it full time, you're kind of getting away with something. Yeah I agree and and I actually when I was in college, Jim friend Simon piano player, he's a great composer and he was a teacher at Roosevelt, and he asked me to play at the Greenville Composers Collective on his original music when I was in college.

00:39:55:47 - 00:40:09:40
Unknown
And that was a big like nod of, of approval from somebody who was a faculty member. He was like, I really like your planning. I'd love for you to play on this with me. And I was playing with a bunch of other great musicians, and one of them was this trumpet player who used to live here named Matt Hallman.

00:40:09:45 - 00:40:24:27
Unknown
And we were rehearsing and just kind of off hand he had he was probably 5 or 6 years older than me at that point, so had been out of college kind of grinding out the gigging musician life. And I'm still this, like young, you know, like wide eyed, you know, kid is like not hasn't had to face that yet.

00:40:24:31 - 00:40:41:09
Unknown
Was working at catering for Burghoff was like the way that I made a living. And he was telling me just off hand on a break, he was like, you know, I've realized that, like, I can make a living playing music, and that's cool. But what I've also realized is a lot of it doesn't bring me a lot of joy.

00:40:41:14 - 00:40:58:55
Unknown
And it's like some thinking of, like, maybe because because at that point I would see musicians that I know been playing in the city for a long time that were kind of like, not around as much anymore. And like, maybe they got a job teaching or like working, you know, working real estate or something like that. And I was like, oh, man, you know, like, like, why would that person to, you know, stop doing music?

00:40:58:59 - 00:41:18:56
Unknown
And the longer you do it, you realize, like, there's just it's not for some people like doing these, like, background gigs and like restaurant gigs where it's not necessarily 100% creative and maybe not fulfilling for most people. It's just not for some people. Well, I like what Matt said. He he said the most crucial were it it wasn't bringing him joy.

00:41:19:01 - 00:41:48:59
Unknown
And I agree, I think, you know, you could you could be a gigging musician and and it could feel like scut work. Yeah. Exactly. I might you might actually be happier, you know, some real estate. Right. And then walk, walk to your passion. I, I think that, it's, you know, being able to being able to do what you love, and, and getting joy out of it, even when it is maybe not your first choice of what you would do as a, independent musician.

00:41:48:59 - 00:42:05:25
Unknown
Right. That's. I still see you're getting where I agree. And that's that's kind of what I realized doing this is, I really enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's fun. It's never. Not especially if you're in a band with people that are all very good, and then you're like, it really doesn't matter what kind of music you're playing.

00:42:05:26 - 00:42:35:48
Unknown
Everyone's killing. It's fun. Like like you're playing Rihanna songs at a wedding on a Saturday and everyone is just destroying. It's a lot of fun to be in a band where everyone is really good at playing their instruments and really good at playing music together, and I think that working 1 or 2 days a week and earning what a lot of people work an entire week to make, oh, thus freeing up my weekdays to go to a rehearsal in the morning or do a podcast with you, or go to a movie at 11 a.m., which is one of my favorite things to do when no one else is in the theater.

00:42:35:53 - 00:42:51:49
Unknown
Like, that's that's what I love about what do you like to see? Have you seen Spinal Tap? Do you know? I'm not yet, but I plan to see. Okay, I like I like all kinds of things. I'm like, I'm going to see the new Paul Thomas Anderson movie on Thursday. So excited about that. But, you know, just like the freedom of that and like, it's playing music.

00:42:51:54 - 00:43:07:59
Unknown
So it's a lot of fun. And if it's done on a high level, it's it's always fun to play music. Is there a part of you that gets anxious about, all that free to really? I enjoy my free time. I like to get to golf. I like to haven't golf much this year because I'm working on an album and all my free time.

00:43:07:59 - 00:43:31:08
Unknown
So last, like the last couple of years, I was going through a bit of, struggle of finding motivation to work on my own music. Like it was kind of like a writer's block, but also kind of self-imposed because I it was back to your think about, let's remember, like that band has a whole ton of material that I've written for them that I'm really proud of and like really feel the music is unique and cool and has something to offer.

00:43:31:12 - 00:43:51:19
Unknown
But I just got so jaded about booking gigs and like trying to get all my friends or musicians. So like, it's really hard to get 25 of my friends who are not working on a Wednesday night to come out to a band to see a bad show. And so I just got to that point of like, kind of not wanting to pursue booking gigs and playing my own live original music.

00:43:51:30 - 00:44:14:10
Unknown
It's it's the hardest part of doing independent music, and wearing that business hat and, and and you're right, when you have you know, when you're circulating with musicians. In fact, I always joke that, you know, the only time you get to catch up with the musician is when you're at maybe at a festival. Yeah. You know.

00:44:14:15 - 00:44:37:43
Unknown
Yeah. Because everybody's on the road or doing something. It's it's really hard to pull together musicians. But it's it's tough. It's tough. The club seems unforgiving in that sense. Have you have you, I mean, how have you cured that then? You said you had a little bit of a drag on it. Have you have you been able to reconcile yourself with that or.

00:44:37:57 - 00:44:57:42
Unknown
Yeah, I think what it's come to now is I don't really care what happens to music after it's recorded, like I said. So I was I would sit down by myself writing down, sitting down with the guitar, and I just have for many years it was like, you sit down with the guitar or something pops up. And then over the next two weeks, I'm kind of going back to that every day.

00:44:57:42 - 00:45:28:13
Unknown
And it expands, you know, and it kind of and I kind of know where this thing is going, and maybe some words will come to you or a melody, and then it kind of just starts to snowball into a song. And I think something about just like sitting down and having done years of like, you know, play the beat kitchen with three bands that are all friends of mine, and we bring the same ten people, and some of those people go into the bar and don't even sit and listen to yours, you know, sad because they're like, oh yeah, I know, I've heard this band and it just like that was just such a drag

00:45:28:13 - 00:45:47:52
Unknown
to me that I, you know, would start to sit down and write a song and be like, what am I even going to do with this music? Like, what am I going to play another show to be kitchen or like, you know, play whatever. And so I would just kind of give up on it and, and these kind of nugget of an idea would sit unformed or sit as like a voice memo on my phone for two years or something.

00:45:47:52 - 00:46:24:17
Unknown
Yeah. That well, you're touching on something that, that is, Ben and, you know, when, when I was playing the before. Before you're born, there was still the beat kitchen. And so what you just described was how we had to deal with the beat kitchen. It was it's just, you know, and and not to malign the beat kitchen to other places, too, but but these places, you know, the it's amazing that they survive, because, you know, they're feeding off of, enterprise bands.

00:46:24:17 - 00:46:46:46
Unknown
They want to kind of get a leg up, and it's, I always call it bring me the witch's broom. You know, you got, you got a pull in, you know, 30 of your relatives at, 10:00 on, a Tuesday night to play, you know, and you're the third band, you know, of the evening, and, you know, it's beyond ridiculous.

00:46:46:51 - 00:47:13:17
Unknown
So, yeah, it's tough to do that. And in the next podcast, maybe we can talk a little more about how how you get around that. Sure. Because I sense you probably did before we have you played the final song. I want to ask you then, first of all, I just think it's great that you are doing what you're doing and what you said that after I wrote.

00:47:13:17 - 00:47:34:45
Unknown
I wrote this after I write the music, I kind of let it go. I'm paraphrasing what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, I don't that's a certain amount of freedom, right? It really is. Yeah. I think it's, I just heard an interview with. Speaking of movies, the director of the movie weapons was talking about writing that film before his really successful film that came out before it.

00:47:34:45 - 00:48:04:18
Unknown
So he wrote that film first. His next film was a big hit. And then when that. And so when he wrote that, he said he was writing without ambition. And like, that's basically how I felt over this last batch of songs that I've been writing and working on. Recording is like the fact that I have no ambition as to what's going to happen with it has given me so much freedom to work out and I really have fun working on it, like I am working on it with a partner that is a musical collaborator who I've known for many years, who I just think the world of in every respect, like one of the best

00:48:04:18 - 00:48:25:51
Unknown
drummers in the world, one of the greatest songwriter songwriters and original music minds that I've ever met. And he's also a fantastic engineer who has a studio in his home. So like, we're just getting together and we're working on my music and he's bringing it to life and we're bouncing ideas off each other, and I'm just having a lot of fun working on my own music, and I feel like it's been years since that has happened, you know?

00:48:25:51 - 00:48:53:48
Unknown
Well, I think you're your success, and I think that's, for me, as far as, independent musician, I think that's the definition of success. You know, ambition is, it's it's good to have, ambition with a little ambition with the big A is the the sole killer in our business, I think, or our art.

00:48:53:52 - 00:49:17:18
Unknown
And because it gets tangled up in that business. But even worse, it gets tangled up in that self-imposed expectation that I have to be something famous or something noteworthy. And I always like to say, 100 years from now, it's snapping back. Right. Exactly. You know, I always think of the all those singers before the phonograph that, think about all the people we never heard.

00:49:17:18 - 00:49:46:06
Unknown
We never heard. Yeah. And, and it's it's kind of humbling in a way. It is. Yeah. You know, but what why don't you play the sound of this podcast? But before you do, I'm going to ask you anyway you can check yourself. Success. I think because I make a living playing music, that it is a success because it like you said, it, it allows me to do music for fun without needing to make money, which is very, very hard to do.

00:49:46:06 - 00:50:06:11
Unknown
So. So making money with your original music is very difficult, and a lot of times it is a snake eating its own tail off, just like you get dark about the fact that you can't get traction and it destroys the art. And and I think that I've, you know, I really think it takes getting older, which I think is you know, you're about a year older than me, like you said, you were probably playing music before I was born.

00:50:06:16 - 00:50:23:12
Unknown
But I think as you get some perspective in life, you kind of realize, like, why am I why am I doing this? Like, and that's the most important thing is if you can get to that point of the reason I'm doing this is because I love doing it, and I like to and I like to have fun making stuff.

00:50:23:12 - 00:50:50:40
Unknown
And if you can get back to that pure place, I really think even the results improve of what you're creating. And so that's, certainly been the way for me. And so I would say that too. So when are you going to start your lecture series? Here's here it is. And charge, you know, 50 bucks ahead. So the, you know, people that, you know, these young people 16 years old, they I mean, you're you're touching on, the truth of what it means to be, a true musician.

00:50:50:45 - 00:51:13:44
Unknown
And I commend you for it because I think a lot of people, there are some people I'll just say that spend their whole life, like, how is a snake eating its tail? Exactly. They they don't realize that they have everything right now and that that kind of we get sold or a bill of goods, I think, in this, this business.

00:51:13:44 - 00:51:38:12
Unknown
And, you know, they always hold up the, the 1% up there and say, oh, well, we don't look at, you know, well, those people, you know, that's such an anomaly. But we're going to have Jim for the second podcast where we get even more into his creative, machinations and, mystery member is the the main band.

00:51:38:17 - 00:51:56:40
Unknown
And again, they can people can follow you on Facebook. Yeah, and Bandcamp and Instagram and Instagram. You don't have a website and, Bandcamp is kind of my website where I put on music up and stuff. Very good. Yeah. And and so, you know, get out there and listen to his music and reach out to him.

00:51:56:44 - 00:52:16:10
Unknown
Sure. Get some advice. Here's a young guy that's, he's discovered the, the secret, you know, already. And, might have my most recent recording that came out earlier this year in February is, a band called Storm Jamison. It's a little duo project with me and a great guitarist named Matt Gold. Oh, great. And we do like folk folk music.

00:52:16:10 - 00:52:34:42
Unknown
We, our first album was kind of a combination of re-imagined folk songs and original songs. And then this most recent one we did is kind of our take on some of the traditional folk songs and a couple like covers that we did in a folk. And what do you cover any switchback now? Not yet, but okay. Got to get into that.

00:52:34:46 - 00:52:55:40
Unknown
I'm old enough now, you know, I have to laugh because I think in our business, at least with the performing arts centers, everything is now a trip. It is? Yeah. That's it. So maybe, you know, I'm just offering you switch back to. Have you been all right for what is work? No, I'm just kidding. But, we've even joked about being our own cover, switch back tribute band.

00:52:55:40 - 00:53:15:10
Unknown
And maybe that would get us work. Play us out. What do you got? All right. This one's called the day. The day. Okay, we got Jim Tashian and you know where to find him. And, we want to thank you for listening on this, podcast of Strung Out. I've had a good time with Jim, and we're going to be back with the second half of this interview.

00:53:15:10 - 00:53:23:21
Unknown
Like I said, the creative part of, Jim Tashian and his amazing songwriting. It's really cool. Thank you.

00:53:37:40 - 00:54:21:46
Unknown
Andy, I've been waiting for soldiers. All right, so the tree down, so they. I've been praying for so far, so I'm good for my music.

00:54:21:51 - 00:54:37:37
Unknown
Until I've have been praying for souls. Folks who poop on them.

00:54:37:42 - 00:54:47:00
Unknown
Let God strike down the God part of.

00:54:47:04 - 00:55:17:25
Unknown
God. Right now. Got I heart out. Got a heart now. Bear witness has me come shut down.

00:55:17:30 - 00:55:36:52
Unknown
Holding me. I'm waiting for swallow to crawl and believe. Will be proud of me I do believe.

00:55:36:57 - 00:55:45:24
Unknown
Rescue allows us to move. To fast and fill.

00:55:45:29 - 00:55:54:45
Unknown
Let God strike. Gotta harder.

00:55:54:50 - 00:56:35:38
Unknown
Gotta hide now. But I know we got a heart now. To bear witness. As we come nation down.

00:56:35:45 - 00:56:53:28
Unknown
Thank you for listening. For more information about this show or a transcript, visit Martin mccormack.com while there. Sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung Out.

00:56:53:33 - 00:57:06:20
Unknown
It's so strong. Spain, we feel, makes no sense at all. The swan song wasn't part of the deal, was no good. All giving no choice. Giving us a.