Strung Out 258: THE BAND CALLED CHARLIE OTTO

Strung Out Episode 258 interviews Charlie Otto, a Chicago singer-songwriter, who has been part of a myriad of bands such as This Must be the Band and DJ no DJ.  A seasoned performer, Otto has played alongside many amazingly talented people including some of his musical idols, like Umphrey’s McGee and members of King Crimson and Smashing Pumpkins.   What's intriguing about Otto is that he currently has set that aside in a quest for creating music as a solo musician.  Adept at the technology that is pushing music, "Charlie Otto and his gear" is not a one-man band, but a band of one man.  Complete songs that are instantly complimented by a visual video experience, it is Otto's desire to immerse the audience into his musical world as more than participants, but fellow travelers.  Otto describes how he came to this latest exploration of his talents in this interview. He and Martin talk about the complexities of being an independent musician in a rapidly changing world of audience, streaming, touring, creating and ultimately, surviving.  His website is www.charlieotto.com

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:14:44
Unknown
Welcome to Strung Out, the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist. Your host is the artist, writer and musician Martin Lawrence McCormack. Now here's Marty.

00:00:14:44 - 00:00:28:40
Unknown
welcome to Strung Out. I am here with Charlie Rob who? First of all, I gotta say what a great stage name. I just think that, you know, some people are born with great names.

00:00:28:41 - 00:00:50:32
Unknown
Yeah, I think my parents were thinking of that. Yeah. And, and Charlie, is, a singer songwriter. What? Performer? You're in a couple bands, that you created. This must be the band I think was the name of the one. And DJ or no DJ, which might give us a clue about some of the stuff you have done.

00:00:50:37 - 00:01:13:43
Unknown
Post band, you know, and, but first of all, we're going to have Charlie play a song. We've got capers. The Wonder Dog here. She is enjoying Charlie's, affection, and she's not. Look at that love. She's like, what happened? Hey, what am I oh, now she's okay. So she's going to be her biggest fans. I do it, so I do it with capers.

00:01:13:43 - 00:01:21:38
Unknown
And, What's the name of this song, Charlie? I wandered off alone and wandered off alone with Charlie out.

00:01:21:38 - 00:01:54:50
Unknown
Don't follow in the middle of the country. But the problem is, you can sell a family back home tomorrow. Makes two weeks, and I feel two weeks closer to I is so far away from home.

00:01:54:54 - 00:02:35:17
Unknown
Oh, wonderful. Solo. In case someone's lesson. Is that true for everyone? So we end up back home tomorrow. Makes three weeks and I feel three weeks closer. Is that promise? Oh, so family back home. Tired of. Tired of. I'm tired. Tired. I'm trying to get stone I want you tired of this I can't do this undone. And I'm ready to sing I want to do.

00:02:35:22 - 00:03:08:40
Unknown
I'm in the middle of the country. But I promised myself a family back home. In my own home. And I feel for weeks closer to I promise. So far away I promise that tomorrow's two weeks. And I feel for weeks closer. I promise myself far away. Back home.

00:03:08:45 - 00:03:42:38
Unknown
Boo! Oh, no way. Woo woo! Oh, you do. You, Do you love my wife?

00:03:44:24 - 00:04:09:08
Unknown
Very cool, very cool. What a great voice. I'm, like, listening to. And I'm like, this guy could be a killer in an Irish band. You gotta let us Irish tenor, you know? Are you any Irish Enya or. I don't know, I mean, I don't some know. Okay. So Alto is kind of like, that's my dad's, third dad.

00:04:09:13 - 00:04:30:50
Unknown
Oh. So when he left the house, that was his last name. You know, it's like, oh, it. So I don't think that has anything to do with, my nationality. Yeah. Has he done the 23? And it's just a good stage name. It's a great. I'll tell you what, it's a great name. I mean, to have to to first name is a, stage name is is.

00:04:30:54 - 00:04:51:24
Unknown
But, I am looking forward to our next interview where we get into the creative part of it, because that that's a pretty complex song that you just did. Oh, you're going through a lot of stuff that is near and dear to me. A little bit of yodeling coming in at the end, and whistling and and everything like that.

00:04:53:10 - 00:05:19:20
Unknown
Charlie. Otto, how did you get into this? Let's tell us a little bit about your background. And how did you, into music? Yeah. How did you. You know, where are you from? Where'd you grow up? I grew up in the northwest suburbs of Chicago, and, I kind of, like, was just really bored. One day, senior year of high school, and was wandering around my house and which, had a guitar.

00:05:19:27 - 00:05:37:16
Unknown
Which? Northwest of Palatine. Oh, my. Where are you from? Woodstock, which, you know. So down around. I love playing Woodstock. Oh, do you do stage left or have you done. I have not played stage left. You should tell me about, I've played. I've just played Liquid blues a couple. Okay. Few times, actually. Yeah, I we will talk.

00:05:37:29 - 00:06:05:31
Unknown
Yeah. I got my, my start on the opera house stage, years and years and years ago, but, pellet time. Yeah. Dated a gal from pellet time many months ago. Yeah. Not exactly like, a musical, hotspot. However, I'll have to say that, switch back. We, Brian Fitzgerald and I first met Dirty Nelly, so.

00:06:05:33 - 00:06:29:21
Unknown
Yeah, I was going to mention Dirty Nelly. So Irish play they. I'm sure they liked the Irish music. All good. Yeah, I it's, I think it's I, I haven't been to it in years, but, so your mom had a guitar. Yeah. And I just sort of like, I was like, all right, I guess I'll do this. You know, like, I remember saying to somebody like before that, like, I don't like music.

00:06:30:11 - 00:06:54:39
Unknown
Like, I just wasn't it. I just wasn't into music. Right? And it definitely started as, like, like, maybe this'll impress some girls, so. Yeah. Oh, Sam. Yeah, I, I do know what you're saying. So it was not so much, is it not? It's it's so hard guitar. So hard at first. And. Yeah, first of all, maybe YouTube existed back then, but I didn't know about it, so I just like went the internet was still new, you know.

00:06:54:58 - 00:07:15:39
Unknown
And I went on AOL or whatever and was like, okay, guitar, you know, and then I this is this is the date, this is how to date myself. So, like, I printed out 60 pages worth of just random guitar letters. It was all I couldn't understand any of it. You can't just do it that though. But so I it was.

00:07:15:48 - 00:07:36:43
Unknown
It's hard to start your fingers hurt and like right. Switching between chords is like that takes really long. So it takes a long time before anybody even can recognize a song you're playing. You know what I'm saying? So. And girls are like, I just annoyed people for a good couple of years. But you kept you kept ended, right?

00:07:36:45 - 00:08:02:01
Unknown
I mean, yeah, because then something. Well, first of all, I guess I point out that my motivation wasn't the best, but that doesn't matter, you know? Yeah, that that like, actually there's been a lot of times that like, I've done something in my life for what I look back as like a pretty lame reason, you know, but it turned into something really special, where, you know, kind of I like that.

00:08:02:01 - 00:08:22:51
Unknown
I mean, in other words, you've you've kind of picked stuff almost on a whim, and you find it's tender, like. Yeah. And, and you're touching on something that, you know, a lot of independent musicians have to come to terms with is, at some point, you realize this, this is going to take a little bit of work.

00:08:23:03 - 00:08:41:17
Unknown
This is just not, you know, magical in this song. Yeah. All of a sudden, you know, it falls into your lap. So but it grabs you, it does, it grabs you and you want to do the work. Yes, that's the fun of it. Then after that, you call that serving the muse? The muse calls you on your I guess, you know, you're like, hey, okay.

00:08:41:22 - 00:09:03:11
Unknown
And, so, were your parents musical? I mean, your mom had on that guitar. I mean, really had it. She played it in high school and then let it sit for 20 years. So interesting. In fact, I just I just restrung it for her. So because she wanted to play some of her stuff so. Well, what what kind of guitar?

00:09:03:11 - 00:09:24:39
Unknown
It's like a classical nylon. So nylon string and guitar. Interesting. So. And what are you playing here? What's, Are they okay? What's what's the story on it? Just. I worked at martyrs, for a long time. Oh, yeah. And, the owner, their great, great. You know. Yeah. Have you played there? Yeah. Over the years. Yeah. Yeah.

00:09:24:44 - 00:09:43:31
Unknown
Well, he's kind of like, the guy I complain to about whatever instrument I'm using. And then. And then eventually he, like, calls me. He goes, I have a perfect instrument for you. Go buy it now. It's on. I saw it on Craigslist or something. So he he found this. I went out and bought it. I shouldn't really question it.

00:09:43:31 - 00:10:01:43
Unknown
I just he said. And he's right. It's a great, great guitar. Yeah. No that's a it's got a great tone to it. And and it's I like the cutaway on it as well. So. Ray, good on you, Ray. Yeah, that's, you know, a special place for sure, you know? And what were you doing?

00:10:01:50 - 00:10:25:51
Unknown
Murder. So let's jump to the. I started as a bar back, okay? And then I bartended. And was that part of it just out of intrigue to get close to music? Well, like, I went to. So I started, like I said, I started playing guitar and in, like, the end of high school, it was pretty late. I'm sure some people would say, and then I went to college for finance and accounting.

00:10:25:56 - 00:10:49:51
Unknown
And then where'd you go to school? You buying champagne? Oh, and then senior year, it's right around career fair time. Supposed to start getting a job. I'm really. I remember I was like, delivering pizza or something, and I just remember looking up the window, driving me like, I'm going to do music instead, you know? So then I go to my parents and tell, like, thanks so much for everything.

00:10:49:51 - 00:11:00:55
Unknown
Yeah, for all the education, everything, you know, but I'm going to do music. And my dad, my dad said,

00:11:01:43 - 00:11:22:06
Unknown
I have this friend who's amazing at guitar, and I go, I go, okay, good. Camino real. He goes, he just blows people away all the time. And he lives with his mom and I. And you said, are you prepared to be poor? And I said, yeah, no problem. And he said, okay, well, then you need to go to school because you're not very good.

00:11:22:11 - 00:11:41:22
Unknown
And he was right. I mean, wow, at the time, you know, I've been playing for four years. So even though I really enjoyed it, I mean, maybe somebody can get really good at that age or by that time, but I didn't, you know, so at the time I was like, I'm very good. No, but yeah. Yeah. Have you ever seen that graph of like, confidence?

00:11:41:22 - 00:11:58:56
Unknown
Yeah. And a topic starts really high and then goes lower the more experience you get. So anyways, but he said so you just like, need to go back to school, but you also need to, earn a living because we're not going to, like, buy more school or, you know, so you said president, get it, get a job at a music venue.

00:11:58:56 - 00:12:18:07
Unknown
You said, get the Chicago Reader out, look at all the venues, go to every single one and see which one will get you a job. We'll give you a job. And, I had never heard of martyrs like I had heard of other ones on that list. So I was going to those. And then kind of got lost or something, and then happened to see martyr signs.

00:12:18:07 - 00:12:40:05
Unknown
I was driving and recognized it, you know, and, you know, I just took any job, and he was totally right. You know, you you see what's possible. I mean, martyrs has an amazing, variety of music, you know? Yeah. Just like Polish music one night, and then it's like music the next, you know? It's a great club.

00:12:40:05 - 00:13:06:32
Unknown
It's a real. Yeah. Representative of a successful Chicago club for that reason that they, they're they're willing to, bring in whatever. Yeah. In, in in the name of music. You know, it's not like this. It's not the other way around. It's not a popularity contest. And club owners like Ray Quinn. Yeah. Well, Will Duncan, these guys, a lot of kudos, you know, consider.

00:13:06:47 - 00:13:24:44
Unknown
Yeah. They're taking they're taking a risk as well. Oh, my gosh. I mean, it's not even a risk. He told me the name. He told me the name is called martyrs because there were four of them. It's martyrs. Apostrophe meaning it's it's owned by the martyrs. Right. And there's four of them. And they just knew they would never make any money.

00:13:24:44 - 00:13:44:44
Unknown
So they were the martyrs. So I think, you know, you're getting a it's great because you're you're, first of all, you're getting, that's great advice from your dad. First of all, I know. Yeah. Great. Really such a good course. I'm really very grateful about the whole thing. And and practical too, right? I mean, he wasn't like, I.

00:13:44:47 - 00:14:20:12
Unknown
You're not, you know, you know, but the fact that, you know, he was he was speaking, his truth about the fact that this is a tough business. Yeah. I mean, the the idea of, a guitarist living in, you know, at home with mom. And, you know, guitars that, you know, they lived at home, you know, great musicians, you know, and, because, it's it's hard to make a living, but you got into it, so you got into it, and, and you started working at martyrs.

00:14:20:12 - 00:14:44:24
Unknown
And what a great, bit of advice. It didn't obviously dampen your spirits about it. Right? What what he said. No, I mean, we're working there and watching the musicians. Did it whet your appetite? Oh, yeah. And you know it. Bless your appetite. And you meet everybody. And, just just like he was saying, I just learned.

00:14:44:33 - 00:15:10:00
Unknown
I learned how to engage with audiences. I learned, like, how to load in how to work with the sound guy, how to, you know, like, yeah. Which is, you know, like, you're going pretty important. Yeah. An apprenticeship. So. Yeah. So it was and, Ray was great because I just just asked him questions all day long, and he just, he mostly I mean, he answered him.

00:15:10:05 - 00:15:35:54
Unknown
He's he's he's sort of like, I mean, I wish everybody could know him because he's, he's so helpful. And like, we already talked about how great he is, but he he I was just asking him questions all the time in sort of a college, collegiate, collegial way. But, I mean, I just remember first realize it when I first realized, like, everybody thought college was just a joke.

00:15:36:45 - 00:15:55:46
Unknown
Like I thought. I thought, like, I should have some respect, you, because I went to college, you know? And I've definitely come around to their way of thinking about it, like, But yeah, so I just basically asking questions all the time, and he, he would just he just was very is still very helpful. I still call him with questions all the time.

00:15:55:51 - 00:16:17:22
Unknown
Well, and I think, you know, coming from, you know, the, the Midwestern middle class kind of ethic, you know, you're, college is one of those things that just seems like that's what people do. Yeah. Right. And that's what that's what I did. You know, I did. That's what you do. I mean, I went to Loyola, I found all of my brothers.

00:16:17:27 - 00:16:42:13
Unknown
And, For what? What do you go for? Well, I, I ended up being in marketing communications with a minor in music. Okay. And she had a study voice at one time when it was a girls college. I was a mobile bundle. My whole bundle, that's what they were. All the girls there. But, it was, you know, I, I knew I was going to do music somehow.

00:16:42:18 - 00:17:12:11
Unknown
I just, I kind of faced the same quandary. But I think your dad's advice, my dad gave me advice, much later when I was like, should I take the leap? I, I paid off college by going into marketing communications. I ended up working for, like, Health care Network and a lot of ways that was my finishing school and, learning about how to sell stuff, you know, and, when you're an independent musician such as yourself, it's really hard to market.

00:17:12:16 - 00:17:41:15
Unknown
I don't have any the first clue about it. Yeah. So most musicians don't. Yeah. I mean, the music business, independent. You know, businesses, it's it's difficult. And, you know, I, I see that you're with us, Chicago Entertainment Agency. Is that still going on or. Yeah. Do you know them? I mean, no, I just, my question is, you know, they, you know, do they get get you a lot of gigs or.

00:17:41:17 - 00:18:07:17
Unknown
Well, like, they're like, they, they mostly book, Street Fest. So that's like, that's not my exclusive. Right? Agency. They just like, if they happen to something that, like, they could use before then, you know, so I get a couple from them a year, but mostly I book myself. Yeah. That's the question I was going to is, is you, very early on working there then with martyrs.

00:18:07:55 - 00:18:28:31
Unknown
And did you go to school to hone your, your guitar work or anything like that? You just kept watching on it? No. And sometimes I would like, see somebody play their that then I would start going to lessons with them. Okay. Or you know vocal lessons with that was always raised suggestion who to go to for that and that's good.

00:18:29:05 - 00:18:53:41
Unknown
Yeah. What's funny is like what I realized after a while, it's like the best performers are often not the greatest teachers. That's interesting. Right. But, you know, they get you, they get you going in some new path you hadn't thought of, but I. I haven't taken that many lessons of for guitar, mostly. I definitely have for voice.

00:18:53:41 - 00:19:16:44
Unknown
So I kind of went to that for like weekly for a long time. But, yeah, not so much. I can hear the, I could hear the training in your voice. Okay. So, you know, and, in the sense, you know, you have a good, clear voice and it looks like you have pretty good breath control, which is like half the battle.

00:19:16:55 - 00:19:48:26
Unknown
Yeah. I one on, singing, performing on stage with, you know, very uncomfortable and kind of anti voice when you think about it. And, an object is pressing against your diaphragm. Yeah. You know, working against you, we're going to get to another song here shortly, but I want to ask you before you go to your next song, what was the transition from martyrs to the bands?

00:19:48:26 - 00:20:07:49
Unknown
Was, were you able to kind of, keep it all together as far as being an independent musician or did you, you know, martyrs? What a great side hustle on the sunset. It was like you're getting paid to go to school. You know, I think, you know, to learn about the business end of the music business. Yeah.

00:20:07:53 - 00:20:28:24
Unknown
And, you know, Raekwon would be a great guy to sit down and just. I'm sure he's. You should or should talk to him. Yeah. I would love to talk to him. You know, because it's, it's it's probably years since I set foot markers. I think the last time we did a private gig there, I was on a,

00:20:28:29 - 00:20:56:01
Unknown
But, you know, were you able then to, transition to forming a band and getting gigs or how did that all that? Yeah, that was all nighters, too. I mean, I remember I saw I saw Ray doing his Thin Lizzy tribute, called Tim Limit. They did it every Monday for Irish Night, you know, because because they had Irish music every Monday.

00:20:56:14 - 00:21:13:51
Unknown
Right. So they would have sometimes like, you know, acoustic or somebody with a bar on playing or whatever. It was all really cool. And then the rock band would show up or would play at the end, you know, and they did the Lizzy tunes, like Super Loud rock music, boys Are Back in town and, yeah, whiskey in the jar.

00:21:13:51 - 00:21:34:48
Unknown
Yeah. So I've definitely heard those songs much, but I remember sitting there watching that and going like, well, I could do a tribute, you know, because it looks fun. Like he really likes that music. And there's certain bands that I really like their music, you know. Sure. So I, I like thought that through and who like, I really like Adrian Blue and I was like, maybe I could do.

00:21:34:48 - 00:21:53:45
Unknown
Well, King Crimson's too hard, and, Adrian Blue's solo stuff. Wouldn't you know, there's a lot of that, but it's not like a a realistic tribute act, because he's not very well known for his own rags to be a tough one to kind of sell to people. But talking heads. Yeah. Like, I really like what he did with Talking Heads.

00:21:53:45 - 00:22:14:38
Unknown
And so I just like, let's maybe I'll form a talking heads band and I'll be Adrian Blue, you know? And then I just never found a David Byrne. So I had to be the David Byrne, you know, and, which, you know, you you could get away with that. I think, I look like him that tell me all the time.

00:22:14:40 - 00:22:32:49
Unknown
Did you get a, I mean, how are your acting skills? I mean, he's he's a very good performer. People would say people said for a long time that I did. I'm nailed all the mannerisms. But I never did anything like that. I never tried to. So it might be just like when you sing like that, that's what your face does.

00:22:32:59 - 00:23:11:01
Unknown
No, because he's very gymnastic. Yeah. He is like, it's all over the place. Yeah. And I mean, it was very difficult. I mean, I was not, I was not a singer, you know. Yeah, I wasn't, I know how interesting that so but but picking that up more education. Yeah. Absolutely. That's that's what I definitely I mean I don't I didn't go to school for guitar, for guitar or for music, but I did learn mostly by just like deep diving into other bands, music, learning other instruments that way and learning production and everything just by doing that so.

00:23:11:06 - 00:23:44:40
Unknown
Well, what are for sure. What a cool thing. I mean, thus far, you know, you set out on this path, you decided, to, to go into music and you went into music, right through the back door of of the the nuts and bolts and then, you know, getting into a tribute band, which, you know, tribute bands are great for the fact that, you know, you know, you do have to educate yourself into if you're going to be a good tribute band, you really have to pick up the nuances of of that artist.

00:23:44:40 - 00:24:08:06
Unknown
And, you know, Talking Heads is one of those bands you got to get right or it's not going to be right. Right? I mean, that's I mean, I don't know, because after after being in it for a long time, and my general feeling about tribute acts is like people kind of just hear what they want to hear, the song they recognize, and that makes them feel good.

00:24:08:19 - 00:24:33:16
Unknown
And so, so whether whether, like because I did spend a lot of time trying to get it right. But also I've seen other bands that don't and they also just people dance the talking heads. So, you know, it's like any band that just starts playing one note of a talking head song and instantly everybody's dancing. So which I did not realize at the time when I, oh, I was going to play one show, I was just going to play one show.

00:24:33:16 - 00:24:54:08
Unknown
But as soon as and I had been in other bands a little bit, but we're not so great, you know, we're just kind of. And people are talking the whole time or whatever. And I was like, that was my experience with playing shows is kind of like, you know, just drink and everybody have a good time. But the first note we played this band, everybody went crazy.

00:24:54:08 - 00:25:18:05
Unknown
We were at Peace Pizza on, North Avenue. Oh, sure. And everybody just danced the entire time. I'd never seen anything like it. Right. I don't I still don't after studying it for years. I still don't understand why. Because it sounds I mean, the elements they're using. Plenty of bands do the same thing, you know, but somehow just everybody just knows to immediately start dancing, which isn't like that.

00:25:18:10 - 00:25:42:29
Unknown
I think there's a level of comfort, you know, with people that, you know, the I mean, imagine, you know, you keep, you know, you hear a song over and over and over again, you know, especially, you know, with radio, older people and such. Yeah. That happens. And, you know, a good cover band, you know, a wedding band, those kind of groups.

00:25:43:45 - 00:26:09:40
Unknown
You know. Yeah, they, they they pull it out. Yeah. I understand what you're saying. It's interesting from the sense of, my observation as a person that also plays like performing arts or some things that, a tribute band is like the big thing now because a lot of boomers are getting older and, you know, they're, they're they're thinking to themselves, you know, you know.

00:26:09:45 - 00:26:29:27
Unknown
Yeah. And a lot of these venues know that they're never going to be able to get David Byrne in the Talking Heads, but what they can do is get, you know, stop making sense. Yeah. A tribute to, you know, to different and and I, I also, I mean, these venues have to stay alive and very tough for them.

00:26:29:32 - 00:26:47:47
Unknown
And they've all sort of just realized, like, this is the only way we're going to stay alive. I mean, Ray was the person who at martyrs was they had resisted tribute bands for a couple decades. Sure. And then they were just like, we just have to. Yeah. And Tribute to Sauce was kind of make them enough money to stay open, you know.

00:26:47:47 - 00:27:14:58
Unknown
Yeah. Well, tribute resources is, Yeah. They're great. Yeah, they're really great. The point is, though, as I started playing more and more shows, I felt a little bit like, like bindweed or strangle weed, you know, like that. Bindweed doesn't make deep roots. It just climbs on something and gets really high up, you know, and kind of destroys everything.

00:27:15:03 - 00:27:45:55
Unknown
And and that's what I kind of started feeling about, being in the tribute band industry because I feel it's a different industry than, than original music. It's just a totally different world. And so, yeah, after a few years, I was feeling like, I don't I don't like being a part of this. And you're laying up for listeners and viewers, the challenge of the club scene with the fact that, well, even last night we played at Fitzgeralds and we had a table of people here.

00:27:45:55 - 00:28:07:50
Unknown
You have a round robin song thing, and these people are talking and to the point where, you know, one person, almost a fight broke. Shut up, you know? Yeah. They just, they, they, you know, as a singer songwriter, you want to have your lyrics heard, you want to hear, you know, you want people to be listening to yourself.

00:28:07:50 - 00:28:42:54
Unknown
Yeah. And when you're performing other people's music, and especially in a tribute band, that's a really good description you gave of that, vibe in the sense that, it's a little bit soulless, you know, it can turn into that, it can turn into that. And, and obviously you're, a creative person, you know, because, just that, illustration that you just gave us, I was going to tell you you should be writing a song about that if you haven't already, give us another song and then we'll move on to the break.

00:28:42:54 - 00:29:01:29
Unknown
And, what do you have in mind? What? What would you like to play? Oh, one thing I do want to say, though, sure is like what I said about being tribute. Act like I felt in my heart that I needed to write songs. Yeah. If somebody who just wants to perform and they. And that's what they like doing, great.

00:29:01:29 - 00:29:19:08
Unknown
I definitely don't want to take away from what somebody else likes to do. They like to play other people's music for the rest of their lives. Great. That's so great. I just let's how I felt in my heart. You know, I think that's an honest thing to say. And I think, you know, that that put that separates you from those kind of artists.

00:29:19:08 - 00:29:43:46
Unknown
There are those there are people out there that they they earn their bread and butter by, you know, you know, accurately, you know, following, you know, other people's work, you know, look at all the Elvis impersonators and it's out there. Yeah, I would agree with you. It's a totally different course from being a singer songwriter and an independent musician.

00:29:43:51 - 00:30:06:15
Unknown
So you decided to strike out the harder path? Yes. And, and that's the, you know, good idea. Because that's that's the journey that, I think is the most rewarding. But I'm also biased because I'm an independent singer songwriter on that. I'm on that path with you. But, give us a song. What do you want to catch your next one?

00:30:06:38 - 00:30:36:32
Unknown
This one is called down. And it's it's kind of just, a I guess I was just reminded of it of by what we're saying, which is like, because because my life just does have a bunch of different times that I just jumped off a cliff, you know. Into something harder and things that plenty of people tell me that's a terrible idea, don't do that.

00:30:36:32 - 00:30:47:14
Unknown
You know, and and then all the failure that comes with that. Yeah. And this song is basically about failure. Great.

00:31:02:21 - 00:31:06:33
Unknown
You.

00:31:06:38 - 00:31:11:21
Unknown
Reached down.

00:31:11:26 - 00:31:31:11
Unknown
For me to stay down for. Come. He's down until the time is right for getting on the fire. He's just,

00:31:31:16 - 00:31:47:39
Unknown
He's fallen down on his luck. And I'll be honest, but every time he swings, nothing leaves his glove.

00:31:47:43 - 00:32:34:54
Unknown
I see success through a store window. Who? I'm looking skeptically in on me. You, know why? Don't be like me. What would I have been through? Me? Down. So I'm holding up downtown, hiding from the New York City fever. Patiently wait for me.

00:32:34:59 - 00:32:43:27
Unknown
You to.

00:32:43:32 - 00:32:48:02
Unknown
Your down.

00:32:48:07 - 00:33:34:18
Unknown
But you're getting up on the ground. Because you're down for all the right side laughs. The kicks and jabs you take your time. No. So you'll find your own, your ground. And you wear them out as only one who fails so very well could last until you knock them. When you're down.

00:33:34:46 - 00:33:59:04
Unknown
Great. Well. Great song. We're going to talk about that song. And, delve into it a little bit, but so, so accurate, about, the musician's life. But, we're interviewing, Charlie Otto here, and, we're going to be back after this little break. You are, strong out.

00:33:59:04 - 00:34:22:43
Unknown
Hey. Want to show your support of Martin's artist endeavors? Buy Me a Coffee is an online site that makes supporting Marty easy. In just a few tabs, you can make a payment of any amount and no account is needed. You can also decide to become an ongoing supporter. Go to Martin mccormack.com and click on the words support. Mark.

00:34:22:48 - 00:34:30:48
Unknown
Let's help Martin keep it all caffeinated.

00:34:30:48 - 00:34:56:08
Unknown
Hey, we're back with Charlie Otto here. And, that song down. I love the idea that you had that lyric about looking through the store window and, that idea of, what society has as a notion of success and fame. Is for being an independent musician or an artist of any stripe. Really?

00:34:56:13 - 00:35:23:51
Unknown
It's it's such a difficult path. In the sense that, at least for me, I'll speak for myself. I was just blogging about, to, to some degree. You're always wondering, am I making a difference? With my art, with my music, with my writing. Yeah. You would have to be a narcissist, to be going around saying, oh, you know, this is great.

00:35:23:59 - 00:35:56:48
Unknown
You know, and you'd probably have an audience of one. So the failures that you encountered with, you know, music, and, failure is such a hard word, right? I mean, just because they're not necessarily failures in the sense that their direction changes, right? And would you agree with that or do you feel like, you know, when you you had like a setback.

00:35:56:53 - 00:36:32:10
Unknown
It's not like you, you know, quit and you went back to finance. Well, I haven't done that. But I definitely like, I'm always refining based on, the results of whatever I'm doing. You know, so I've definitely, like, stopped a few bands, folded bands into other bands. You know, changed the way I do. An album release or change the way, you know?

00:36:32:14 - 00:37:10:06
Unknown
I'm constantly changing because of, like, things that are not working, right. And, and but I definitely I have not to this point, decided that I'd rather be working a finance job. Well, I'm sure about that one. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. I mean, the life of an independent musician. Yeah. You know, you've been at it for a while, and it sounds like you're very innovative with, trying to find solutions to to making it in this business.

00:37:10:11 - 00:37:58:31
Unknown
You had bands, but now you have, you know, Charlie Otto and his gear. Yeah. And so you're you're kind of using, a little bit of what? Like, what kind of media are you using to fill out your show? Okay, so I first of all, Covid happened, and, I, I've, I've been a producer for a long time, so I just have these sessions, that enables I use Ableton to record and produce things, and, when Covid hit, I was like, this is fine, because, because I have is basically able to just open up my sessions and sort of, mess around, you know, for performance was like, let's say I

00:37:58:31 - 00:38:24:45
Unknown
was doing something, I was just going to make a video or something, you know, because it's Covid, you're not playing shows. I was able to do that by just sort of performing my songs, by opening up my sessions, finding the fun aspects of it, whether it's, Some synth stuff or some drum samples or messing with some vocal and, you know, any aspect that I had fun making in the session.

00:38:24:59 - 00:38:50:28
Unknown
Right. Kind of performing those. And, so I basically and I also have a lot of music videos, so I, kind of was able to sync those up and play along to those music videos, which is good. You don't normally get to do that with a band. And so like now I basically have I'm playing with my Ableton sessions.

00:38:50:28 - 00:39:13:34
Unknown
I got a keyboard and a guitar that's got a Midi pickup on it. So it's kind of like a Midi keyboard. Okay. So I can play synth stuff with that. And then, and then I'm playing video and that's progressed a lot to, to the point where I meant to send it to you beforehand, but I'll send it to you after this of of like interactive music video where like if I play a note, something will happen on the screen.

00:39:13:34 - 00:39:35:52
Unknown
So you're, you're programing this whole. Yeah a whole lot of programing, a lot of coding. Oh, wow wow wow. Are you ever afraid of it going terribly wrong on stage? It does. But, for the most part, there's training wheels you can put places on, you know, like a, like, basically, like, I'm probably going to sing on this song, this whatever.

00:39:35:52 - 00:39:59:39
Unknown
I'm going to sing, whatever I'm doing next, I'm going to sing. If if something goes wrong with my mic or my pedals that is going through or just the room is to, like, the sound is crazy, which has happened before, I just have a button to to bring in my vocals. I had already recorded, you know.

00:39:59:43 - 00:40:19:36
Unknown
So then it's fine. The song can still happen and I basically have that with every aspect that I can some sort of training wheels so that the show can happen, fail safe. Yeah. Fail safe. But yeah. No, that is the major. I mean, with, with a band, you're worried that, you know, the drummer will forget the changes or whatever, you know, like the forget the bridge.

00:40:19:36 - 00:40:44:19
Unknown
But like, with this, it comes with its own set of anxieties of like, yeah, you're going to do. And so. Right, like I could, you know, I think I'm too old school. But, you know, that's why I stayed in a duo, I think as long as I, was because, we've had bands and stuff like that, but that comes with its own problems, right?

00:40:44:25 - 00:41:05:15
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, so was that what got you into this, or was it just Covid like, okay, I think Covid, for a lot of people, like gave them an excuse to do what they were basically already wanting to do, just, you know. Yeah. And for me, it was like I was already really burnt out and playing in bands.

00:41:05:20 - 00:41:27:41
Unknown
And just sort of, dealing with the aspects of it just as really slow with six people, like we had this band, DJ Khaled, DJ, we played electronic tunes, and we were supposed to be like a DJ, but a full band, which is a pretty fun idea. There's. So we didn't stop between songs. We didn't have a set list.

00:41:27:41 - 00:41:46:11
Unknown
We sort of just like transitioned with the six of us, and that's really cool. But also a DJ can go like, oh, I like that song. Then we download it, okay, it's on my USB stick here, press play. Whereas like with it was just so hard to learn a song and by the time we learn one, we probably forgot a different one.

00:41:46:25 - 00:42:23:02
Unknown
And so getting our our, it was just frustrating and overwhelming and too much. And so how that could be. Yeah. So I basically was like kind of burnt out on, on playing. Counting on everybody else doing what they needed to do to make it good enough. That was a terrible way of saying it, because everybody's trying their best, and they all have these schedules that are crazy because we're all, like you said, just hustling so hard to make it make, you know, make ends meet, you know, and, so everybody was great and doing a great job.

00:42:23:02 - 00:42:46:09
Unknown
I just it was just too the model was, you know, a failure. You know, it's a failure that I was like, all right, this is not working. So I gotta try something different. Well, you know, kudos to you that, you you were able to realize it wasn't working. You know, I mean, I'm one of those people that I think, you know, if it's not working, I hit it with the hammer harder, you know?

00:42:46:14 - 00:43:06:14
Unknown
Yeah. And five years later, whatever. You know, he's he's still hitting that thing, you know? You know, it's not a good thing. I mean, it, you know, it, it sometimes certain times it goes in. Yeah. Sometimes goes in sometimes. But the inventor, you know, I mean, and you're, you're kind of you've got this inventor kind of, thing.

00:43:06:14 - 00:43:28:28
Unknown
And that's what's coming to my mind, like, like Edison, you know, finding the light bulb, you know, there was 50 million different, failures to get finally to that light bulb. Are you kidding me? I feel like that a lot. Is is this, this path that you're taking right now? Is is this your light bulb, or is this something where you're on your path and you're like, are you?

00:43:28:33 - 00:43:56:35
Unknown
If I have a lot of questions about it, one one question is, is, and you can answer, well, I just asked you in the context of, are you finding the space audiences rooms that are open to the idea of like, you know, presenting this kind of thing, this whole thing, audio visual, sonic live performances? It's a feat.

00:43:56:40 - 00:44:17:42
Unknown
I often think about that exact thing you said about inventors, and I think about, you know, the stories we hear are the ones that tried and failed for a really long time and then finally made a light bulb and it changed the world or whatever. But we don't hear about the millions who tried and failed. And then also we don't know who they are, right?

00:44:17:44 - 00:44:41:34
Unknown
And not like that we like. I need somebody to know who I am, but more like, did they ever succeed? Did they ever make the thing? Do they ever look back and go like. And that's when I made that thing, you know, and you are meant for this business. I guess I'm telling you. Here's the, you have the, you're blessed with the curse or the curse with the blessing.

00:44:41:39 - 00:45:02:54
Unknown
Yeah, I, yes, yes, you're, you know, but continue like, I just, I just hear a fellow soul traveler on this journey. So basically, like, when I'm wondering all the time, should I start, you know, is is this a is this one of the going to be one of those inventions that never amount to anything?

00:45:03:03 - 00:45:22:41
Unknown
And was it fun for them? Was it enough that it was fun for them to work every day and not even fun? Well, they were obsessed, you know, like ice time was. I'm saying, well, I, I was obsessed, right? He was obsessed with this thing. And if somebody asked, are you having fun? He probably like, no, I just want to get it.

00:45:22:41 - 00:45:41:32
Unknown
I just want to get it, you know? And I definitely have that every day. I'm thinking all the time, whenever I'm not doing it, I'm thinking about what I could do. And, you know, I'm obsessed and I love it. I love it and that. But is it enough for those people that never invented anything? Have you seen anybody or whatever?

00:45:41:37 - 00:46:13:34
Unknown
Is it enough to them that they really, felt pulled to do it? And that was the end of it? Can you can you answer that question because that's you're you're asking, you're asking, you know, one of the most poignant and important questions that of the artist, the independent, artist, especially an independent musician, especially an independent musician who is, his own company, you know, you're you're your own entity to the point where you're your own band.

00:46:13:45 - 00:46:40:27
Unknown
Yeah. I guess the answer is, if I look back at what I've done so far, I don't regret those moments where I was working hard on my invention. But I do regret, really, is the times that I ignored the what my heart was saying because there was something easy or or financially like. I kind of do regret being in that tribute act.

00:46:40:42 - 00:47:03:07
Unknown
It did really well. It did extremely well. We made a good living off that and it was easy as a book gigs and to sure, it was very is pretty successful and I regret it. I regret and I had I'm proud that I eventually cut it off and said, like, I can't, I can't even do one anymore because I have this, you know?

00:47:03:19 - 00:47:29:31
Unknown
Yeah, I'm I'm happy with that. I don't regret that. But I do sort of regret spending, what I think I would love to be wrong about this, but I do regret spending what was probably my prime. Fan base building years, which is like your 20s when everybody is just looking to go out. Yeah. Understand? Like the, like what's happening tonight, whereas we have kids.

00:47:29:31 - 00:47:53:03
Unknown
Like, if somebody asks you to go to something, you're like, put them on a schedule. And, you know, it's like, I just had that happen last week. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's hard 20s when unfortunately is when you're, you're probably not at the top of your game. But that that is the absolute best opportunity to build a fan base which starts with friends and build into something that could be sustainable or whatever.

00:47:53:08 - 00:48:23:56
Unknown
So I sort of regret that. I my I didn't listen like hard enough during that time. But but basically, to answer your question was it hasn't been enough, just that I followed my heart. Yeah, I don't regret it. But, in this moment when the future is unknown. That's when you. That's when I'm not sure. You know, I'm filled with that, you know?

00:48:23:56 - 00:48:50:50
Unknown
But but that experience, that experiment of looking back. I'm future Charlie now to somebody said Charlie in his 20s. And what am I telling him? I'm like, yeah, you did good. Maybe don't do so many talking head songs, but you did. You're doing really well. You're on the right path. Keep doing this. I, I love, that's something I use all the time where I've, I've had the younger Marty, but I also had the Marty in the future.

00:48:50:55 - 00:49:17:55
Unknown
And I realize, you know, that guy is, you know, depending on me in the present right now. And you are speaking the truth to the great challenge of being, an artist. You know, as I like to say, one of my Marty maxims, is 100 years from now, it won't matter. Yeah, because that's most that's true, you know.

00:49:17:55 - 00:49:48:58
Unknown
So that being said, what what parameters do you give yourself? Do you allow yourself to to claim as I'm doing this, therefore I am a success because, you know, you can look through their store window. You can see what you know as you send this song down and, you know, talking about, hey, you know, this is what, you know, success should look like.

00:49:49:03 - 00:50:14:16
Unknown
But for the independent musician, it doesn't come that way. No, sir. You know, unless, somehow, somehow, you know, that that, meteor strike with the bolt of lightning at the same time happens where you might be landed with a label or something like that, or somehow, you know how that works. Yeah, but, yeah, I could write. Could, but, you know, I hear you.

00:50:14:16 - 00:50:35:14
Unknown
You know, the journeyman, you know, you're on the journeyman trail. And so, you know, the question I have for you, and this is this is a great interview. Because of it, what parameters are going are you willing to give yourself, you know, you're married, you've got a kid, you've got, you know what?

00:50:35:14 - 00:51:04:59
Unknown
What is it for? Charlie? Otto? That Charlie. Otto uses as his, levels of. I'm doing this, therefore I'm a success. Yeah, well, well, first of all, I don't need to be a success. I, I just am a person. So you know it's like that is this is what I tell myself all the time is like what I would I say at the end of the song is like I feel so very well, I'm so good at failing.

00:51:05:03 - 00:51:49:19
Unknown
That I always just get up and so I gotta, I just get, I don't ever have to even win. Let's let's just take away the word success. Yeah. And you know, for success because you the definition of success. Let's start there. What is success. Yeah. So like like I first of all, when, when you ask that question, I totally know what you mean, that there is a the outward version of success with the right enough money to live basically, like in the extreme version, everybody knows your name and you're, you know, I don't whatever what that famous or whatever, but, but there's, there's that's obviously honestly, I'm not sure if

00:51:49:19 - 00:52:41:17
Unknown
that, having, having gotten a small taste of that. I don't think that that actually matters very much. And you can you see it almost, in my experience, the the more success we had, the less I felt like this was right. You know what I'm saying? So the other version that does feel right is like, man, when I finish a song and I get that final lyric and I cry because of all the intense emotion, that came from whatever I was writing or when I get that exact consonant sound or syllable or whatever with that right chord and just, you know, that's just success.

00:52:41:28 - 00:53:06:27
Unknown
Yeah, I'll that's just on its own, just total success. That's that's good enough for me to say I'm glad you, you know, I'm glad we're we're hammering this out because I think it's really key, for those of you that, are independent musicians or those of you that aren't, and you have somebody that, you know, that is to understand that we walk in a different world.

00:53:06:32 - 00:53:28:22
Unknown
A lot of our peers, and, and so, you know, there there isn't anybody, you know, my dad was a dentist, and that that was a great career in the sense that, you know, it was palpable. It was measurable. You know, he could and, you know, he got paid and, you know, he was he was creative.

00:53:28:22 - 00:54:00:27
Unknown
He, you know, I could see him restoring teeth. And, you know, there's, you know, he's been dead now for almost ten years. And, you know, there are people walking around still that have my dad's handiwork, and I, you know, I write about that as opposed to what I do, you know, so as an independent artist and, I have to kind of, put out there, remind myself, because, I'm my own harshest critic.

00:54:00:32 - 00:54:20:48
Unknown
You know what brings me joy? Well, brings me success with that. You know, the hyphens around it. Right. Yeah. Because it's not, you know, you know like I said the meteor could hit and you could if you could be on tour. So you have to kind of measure it, you have to kind of define it.

00:54:20:48 - 00:54:46:27
Unknown
Yeah. And then you have to remind yourself. Yeah. And with other people like how I affect other people as a measure of, you know, there's a measure of that. And like dentists and almost every other job, they don't often they're not often able to make somebody cry for us in the end or I don't know if entertainment field is right, but, you know, like art.

00:54:46:32 - 00:55:15:45
Unknown
Yeah. We can make people feel incredibly strong emotions that they probably, in a lot of cases were repressing. Yeah. That they learned that they had to when they were kids usually. Yeah. And make them feel incredibly strong feelings that change their life, you know. And yeah, I know, I know that's happened with some people with with what I made.

00:55:15:45 - 00:55:36:26
Unknown
I don't especially need a count of it. But it's like that does happen. And it's the extreme power that we wield. You know, it's, it is an extreme power. Another Marty Maxim I like to throw out there is whoever touches the most souls wins, you know? Yeah. I mean, to describe our craft, because that's really what you're doing.

00:55:36:33 - 00:56:02:47
Unknown
You're you're you're creating, that that kind of, connection that, we could do a whole series on you, and I could sit and we could talk about what? What is that connection? But it's the kind of thing that. Yeah, my dad could charge x amount of dollars for filling the teeth. What do you charge for touching?

00:56:02:52 - 00:56:22:38
Unknown
For making that person cry. You know, and the industry that we're in is an industry that doesn't look at it from that perspective. At least the commercial end of it, I would say. Charlie Otto. Well, let's let's take a look at him. And he had this great cover band. Let's see if we can get him to be David Byrne again.

00:56:22:43 - 00:56:56:21
Unknown
Or there's Charlie Adam, who's doing the hero's journey. You know, to quote Robert Bly, you know, where you're you're out. You're out doing your thing. You know, so, so don't be dumb. You're you're actually, you're doing something that's, you know, that's an extremely noble thing. And I'm not trying to give you a pep talk when I'm actually doing is I want to hear, you know, I'm hearing from you so much truth.

00:56:56:26 - 00:57:21:52
Unknown
About what it takes to be an independent artist and the fact that you're married with a kid, you're you're living your, you're, you're, you're making things happen and you're in this field, you know, we don't have we don't have a degree that's given out. We don't we don't have a Hall of Fame for that. Who's somebody else interviews you because, I mean, I should be be asking you questions.

00:57:21:52 - 00:57:40:51
Unknown
Well, you know, it's not your podcast, right? It's not like I'm not going to do what, you know, like, but you you're on the air, you know, but that's just as much thing things to say about the topic. And it's it's a fascinating thing that we're in because, as I like to say, I joke with people all it's like being a priest.

00:57:40:51 - 00:58:15:55
Unknown
I mean, you take the vows of poverty, chastity and obedience, you know, that's basically it to the craft, right? I mean, it's it's pretty much it, you know, so you're you're there, you know, but, but I guess the the the last question I want to ask with you and I'm really, really thrilled that we went this direction because, you know, people, people should come out not only to support your music, but your, your, very thoughtful human being that's pouring his his own soul into why he's doing it.

00:58:16:00 - 00:58:41:47
Unknown
You know, and I think when you were in the cover band, I would go out on a limb and say, that was the thing that was bothering you. It's the why wasn't authentic. Maybe with who you are, maybe. Maybe not. But, and, you know, defining success as an independent artist is something that, it's it's it's a it's really important to do.

00:58:41:52 - 00:59:02:59
Unknown
But the hardest part about it is at the end of the day, you're the person that has to induct yourself into your own Hall of Fame. It's an art thing right. It's a lonely path in some ways. Right. And very lonely you know. And that's, that's, that's the hard part about doing this. Do you and your family, did you have any siblings or, you know, a brother and sister?

00:59:02:59 - 00:59:29:52
Unknown
What do they do? I always like to ask. My sister's a dancer. Okay. And my brother is a commercial real estate broker, so one went a fairly practical route. And I got my real estate license, you know, when I was like, you know, wondering what can I do. Yeah. You know, to, to feed the beast. And then I realized, you know when you show houses it's on weekends and evenings.

00:59:30:01 - 00:59:48:24
Unknown
Okay. You know, you know I was like, you know, here's a nice house. Let me tell you about it. Yeah, I love it. But that's cool that your sister's a dancer. Yeah, I think so. I, we haven't I haven't been able to speak to her in like, a decade or something. Wow. Okay. But still, that is very strange.

00:59:48:25 - 01:00:14:05
Unknown
Yeah. So still, I think she's still doing that, I don't know. Yeah, well, that's, those, those kind of, relationships. So, tough, but they're also great points of connecting with so many people that you have such bad relationships. So we live in a day and age right now where, you know, estranged and strained relationships is a super your, you know, just because of the political landscape we're on.

01:00:14:10 - 01:00:42:15
Unknown
So, you know, maybe the muse is asking you to do that, to tap into that kind of stuff. But, I want to, have you play one more song and play a song to this, this interview, and then our next interview, we get a little more into the creative process or we don't. I am enjoying, again, I just want to say I, I feel that, this is a very important interview because, you know, you you are.

01:00:42:19 - 01:01:15:35
Unknown
You nailed a lot of the, the finer points of the path of going into this craft, and, and, and I think, let me just ask you this final question. It might seem like a softball question, but do you at the end of the day, do you feel that this path gives you joy?

01:01:15:40 - 01:01:20:18
Unknown
Joy is just,

01:01:20:22 - 01:01:43:34
Unknown
Another hard term to define and guess, you know, like like I said, like, do I enjoy it? I just want to do it. I just want to do it. So I. And so when you're doing it. Yeah, I'm just in it. And that's the thing is like there's no like, oh wow, I love this is just like it's just like, yeah, I am in it.

01:01:43:34 - 01:02:03:32
Unknown
And I and this music, yeah, I am music now and I am this video or whatever, this is what I'm doing. So the catharsis is like, I guess I like being I like being, I like being plugged in as a, not as a human anymore. I'm just like, you know, I'm just doing what the art asked me to do or whatever.

01:02:03:41 - 01:02:29:25
Unknown
And you're channeling. Yeah. And I love that. Yeah. So I guess I enjoy it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I would go out on a limb and say that's. And it's important for us artists again to realize in those moments we have to because we're so into our stuff. Yeah. And at some point you have to kind of it's like, you know, when Caesar would be going on this triumph and then somebody is going, you know, remember, Caesar, you are mortal.

01:02:29:25 - 01:02:53:59
Unknown
But, you know, in this case, Charlie is gonna say to Charlie or Marty has to say the words, remember, Marty, this is what Joy feels like. This is what Joy feels like. This is what doing your craft feels like. Yeah, maybe I'm too intellectual than the hamster here. Yes. So I think, No, no, I want to thank you because I think, this is this has been a great, nuts and bolts, interview.

01:02:54:04 - 01:03:15:33
Unknown
And, you know, people you've seen, those of you who are watching this, you're going to see, Charlie's website flashing through this, interview, but also, when you go to the podcast, the audio, you can read the notes and you're going to see his, his website. You have a store to go to buy stuff.

01:03:15:38 - 01:03:42:11
Unknown
Sure. And, and a new record coming up. You got a new record coming out on vinyl. Congratulations. My first vinyl. Oh, cool. Cool. Do you play vinyl? Yeah. I, I like, cover your players. Oh. Yes, sir. Yeah, I am record player. My awesome. And, I want to thank you for being, this interview and, thank you for opening up and being so honest, you know.

01:03:42:26 - 01:04:09:17
Unknown
Thanks. I think you're letting me. Yeah. No. And, what is, what's this song you're going to give us for this, this this interview, the, players out? Yeah. Well, it's something that I was reminded of while we're talking again. So this one is called lessons to Learn, and it is about that. There was this Kurt Vonnegut book, where they were on some planet or some of the universe, whatever.

01:04:09:17 - 01:04:34:19
Unknown
And when they looked up at the stars, it looked like spaghetti, because they could see where the star had been and where it was heading. And they could see because time didn't work the same because I think I feel like the planet moved really fast or something. So sure I'm a different way. So they were able to see the path front and back and that was just how it lives their life.

01:04:34:24 - 01:04:46:31
Unknown
And so so this song is kind of like about that and it's called The Path. Now it's called Lessons to Learn. Lessons to learn. Thank you.

01:04:56:58 - 01:05:12:15
Unknown
Learn.

01:05:12:20 - 01:05:19:13
Unknown
The.

01:05:19:18 - 01:06:13:40
Unknown
If I could live my life. Learn. I have no doubt. And and and follow through. But since the plane is spinning so slowly, no one see, so that they, And no one knows who they will become. One. So I see no lessons to learn. Since I see no lessons to learn. As I see no laws to.

01:06:13:45 - 01:07:06:13
Unknown
The night is coming to me. Motion. No. It fills my chest and takes me. You and every. It seems to escape me. While every future possible waits. And every future me. Would just laugh and say. There are still some, lessons to be learned here. You still have some lessons to learn.

01:07:06:17 - 01:07:27:33
Unknown
And, to have some lessons too long. I do have some lessons to.

01:07:27:33 - 01:07:45:16
Unknown
Thank you for listening. For more information about this show or a transcript, visit Martin mccormack.com while there. Sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung Out.

01:07:45:21 - 01:07:58:08
Unknown
It's so strong. Spain, we feel, makes no sense at all. The swan song wasn't part of the deal, was no good. All giving no choice. Giving us a.