Episode 262: THE BEAT OF HIS DRUM-THE DYNAMISM OF HERSHYL EDWARDS.

Take a drum teacher, add songwriting, arranging and divide between an eclectic marching band and a duo that does looping, bass lines vocally and rocks as full band would.  Keeping true to the beat of his drum, Hershyl Edwards is a powerhouse, performing with Macca Pazza, whose Wikipedia page describes as "an interdisciplinary instrumental music and performance ensemble."  As part of a group that can number 30 players, Edwards has written pieces for the group, such as "Stupid Icarus" that flares with energy drums, vocal bass, loops, vox and Jesse Crydeman playing guitar, loops, and vox as well. It is a rich auditory concoction that explores different genres of music and sound.  Both groups perform regularly in Chicago and throughout the world.  But, there's also Edwards the instructor, mentoring students as he himself had been mentored at the University of Illinois.  He teaches at Musical Expressions of Naperville on the kit as well as instruction in voice.  This first interview delves into his background, growing up and how he ended up pursuing a musical path.  Another strong example that independent musicians can create their journey, make a living from it and deserve recognition and respect for being artisans in a world (especially in the US) that dismisses such ingenuity.  

For Edward's teaching, go to:
https://www.ensembleschools.com/musicalexpressions/staff/hershyl-edwards/ 

https://www.facebook.com/hershyl.edwards.2025/
https://bifunkal.bandcamp.com/
https://www.facebook.com/muccapazza

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:14:29
Unknown
Welcome to Strung Out, the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist. Your host is the artist, writer and musician Martin Lawrence McCormack. Now here's Marty.

00:00:14:29 - 00:00:30:06
Unknown
Welcome to Strung Out. And I have with me Hershel Edwards, who is a percussionist drummer. How do you like to call yourself? I guess multi-instrumentalist, but drums. Why not my primary or my my my first big instrument.

00:00:30:06 - 00:00:54:19
Unknown
Yeah. Drummer. What else do you play? I, I sing, I play guitar, and and keyboard. I'm mostly self-taught on guitar and keyboard. But, yeah. Studied voice and and, percussion. And I also. That's. What else did you write as well that I do. Yeah. That's awesome. So, you know, you're you're also, what I was looking out for.

00:00:54:22 - 00:01:24:29
Unknown
You're giving lessons, and I want to talk about that. In the course of this, podcast, because I think it's just important. I always envision that there's somebody out there that's willing to take the the leap into music, but they're afraid to. And, just before the, we started recording, a friend of mine sent this, report that, 1% of the population in the United States are artists, 1%.

00:01:24:35 - 00:01:50:19
Unknown
And and part of that is the whole gamut of people that are like you that support themselves doing music. So, first of all, congratulations on being less than 1% of the population supporting yourself. I'm going to take appreciate. Yeah. Thank you. And why don't we jump right in with a song. You're in several different groups and, so, why don't you tell us what song we're going to hear first, and then we'll take it from there?

00:01:50:19 - 00:02:12:03
Unknown
Cool. I'll probably start with, a song that I wrote for, rebellion called Luca Piazza. That it's called, Stupid Icarus. Wow. Instrumental tune. For a giant man with a bunch of horns and strings and weird instruments. Fantastic. Let's let's give it a listen. All right?

00:02:12:33 - 00:02:30:57
Unknown
And.

00:02:31:02 - 00:02:51:03
Unknown
Then finally, Christopher. And I met.

00:02:51:08 - 00:03:19:29
Unknown
You.

00:03:19:34 - 00:03:30:54
Unknown
And.

00:03:30:59 - 00:03:36:00
Unknown
You.

00:03:36:05 - 00:03:42:53
Unknown
You.

00:03:42:58 - 00:03:54:39
Unknown
Came.

00:03:54:44 - 00:03:59:29
Unknown
Back.

00:03:59:34 - 00:04:04:38
Unknown
With a new.

00:04:04:43 - 00:04:10:36
Unknown
Promise.

00:04:10:41 - 00:04:17:26
Unknown
And then.

00:04:17:31 - 00:04:31:15
Unknown
When the.

00:04:31:20 - 00:04:35:57
Unknown
New.

00:04:36:02 - 00:04:56:33
Unknown
You took.

00:04:56:38 - 00:05:03:05
Unknown
You.

00:05:03:10 - 00:05:08:40
Unknown
Left.

00:05:08:45 - 00:05:35:08
Unknown
The.

00:05:35:13 - 00:05:48:12
Unknown
Company.

00:05:48:17 - 00:05:54:40
Unknown
And.

00:05:54:44 - 00:06:08:36
Unknown
You.

00:06:10:05 - 00:06:34:54
Unknown
I have it all right. Stupid Icarus. Yeah. Okay, first of all, I'm hearing this, and I'm like, oh, my God, this would be like, the ultimate marching band piece. Yeah, yeah, it's, you know, I mean, yeah, that's kind of what move onto. Is it okay if you look them up and out of there where we dress like as, like a mismatched marching like all, like, you know, thrift store, like marching uniforms.

00:06:34:54 - 00:06:52:35
Unknown
We find. And, great. Like, she kind of has that vibe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I wrote this way before I was ever in that group. And when I. And just the song kind of didn't have a home. And when I, when I joined them, I'm like, this is this these with these with this outfit. Yeah. Is is that it?

00:06:52:40 - 00:07:13:27
Unknown
I don't know what that, is synthesized sound. It sounded like seagulls. Yeah. That was exactly was supposed to sound like it was guitars with, with with with, what do you call it? Slide. Okay. Slide. There's actually a, there are two guitars, one guy playing regular scat guitar that a guy playing little mini four string guitar.

00:07:13:31 - 00:07:33:39
Unknown
And, yeah, the both of them I wanted them to give me was exactly supposed to be that. Also, it reminds me of, tomorrow Never knows. That that that all those I found out later was like him laughing and sped up or whatever, like, But I always. Yeah, I always wanted to kind of been feeling.

00:07:33:40 - 00:08:10:34
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. And like, it was, by all the time messed around with that sound at home, and. Yeah, they liked it. That is fantastic. How many pieces in that band? So on. On a on a full day, probably almost 30, of those, but like, basically it's, there's like seven percussionists that, you know, do like some of those to snare or some one guy doing bass drum, you know, somebody doing glockenspiel and then some other, you know, so there's percussion, there's, the trombone section, 2 to 4 trombones, any given show trumpets?

00:08:10:39 - 00:08:34:22
Unknown
3 or 4. Usually I would show, a we have, woodwind, we basically have saxes, but, there's also occasionally like clarinet, mixed in there. We even have somebody bringing a flute every once in a while. Barry is usually part of it. And then we have the what we call the freak section, which is is basically like that little mini guitar guitar player.

00:08:34:27 - 00:08:56:20
Unknown
Violin and, cello and, Oh my God. Well, I heard everything in there. Yeah. Which is beautiful. And, obviously you studied music somewhere. I did. Oh, I we got to get into that. I love the two movements in it. Yeah, yeah. And, it's just, it's fantastic. I would love to see this band live.

00:08:56:25 - 00:09:17:49
Unknown
It's exciting. What a what a what an hour, you know? Yeah. Just, And why why, like the University of Illinois marching band or some band has you picked that up? Yeah. I mean, you scored it out. So is it for Doom Publishing or. No, we have never published the, you know, the, the sheet music we talked about that, the whole repertoire.

00:09:17:49 - 00:09:36:24
Unknown
Because there's a lot of it. Yeah, there's a lot of great material that. But. Yeah. All right. So, you know, this is the fun part about doing these interviews because you find the people like you that are just, you know, doing all sorts of amazing things. How did you get into this? Did you grow up in Brookfield, Illinois?

00:09:36:24 - 00:10:00:53
Unknown
Was that your mostly. Yeah. Grounds? Yeah. I was born in Chicago. My mom grew up in Brookfield. My grandparents, you know, basically moved Brookfield once they met. I mean, I'm actually in their home, Oh, gosh. Yeah. So tell us about that old home. And but they, But, yeah, I basically kicked around the suburbs and then in third grade, settled in Brookfield with my mom.

00:10:01:05 - 00:10:20:09
Unknown
Right. And so, yeah, most, most of my, most of my upbringing was, was there once, you know, that you wanted to do music, was there somebody in your family that was musical or. Yeah, definitely. You get into it. So yeah. Early. So my, my dad was a musician. He was a bass, like a working jobbing musician, a bass player, singer and stuff like that.

00:10:20:09 - 00:10:45:41
Unknown
And then my mom's brother, was actually, a composer, decently successful composer, weirdly enough. So I had those examples in my life. I didn't really grow up with my dad around, but I just just knowing that he did that definitely had influence. And then my uncle was always encouraging my mom to, you know, get me, you know, musically educated and and he was definitely, you know, just knowing that you could do that.

00:10:45:41 - 00:11:06:24
Unknown
I, I realized that at early age. So were you one of these guys that then, you know, right away piano lessons, that sort of thing or. No, not no. No, actually. So it was encouraged in my public school system that you, that you, don't, you know, join a band until or you can't join band actually, until fourth grade.

00:11:06:29 - 00:11:25:26
Unknown
And, yeah, I didn't, I don't know, I wasn't really begging to get into music and except I knew I wanted to do drumming, and my mom was like, well, just wait and do and do band right then, like a year in the band, they suggest you do private lessons. So my first private lessons in where I'm for drums and in fifth grade.

00:11:25:31 - 00:11:46:59
Unknown
Okay. Yeah. So it was drums that you, you fell into and you're like drawn to that. But as you went on, obviously you, you had to learn music theory and all that fun stuff. Where did you go for that? So I ended up going to, well, honestly. So yeah, I did go to college. I went to Dubai, open champagne.

00:11:47:04 - 00:12:12:31
Unknown
I was a theory and composition major. But the. Yeah, a lot of it. So you may think I have a lot of this, educational background that helped a lot of stuff was was self-taught. Really? Like my drum. My first drum teacher suggested my mom give me a keyboard. So I got this little tiny, realistic brand, RadioShack keyboard, which is great.

00:12:12:31 - 00:12:41:33
Unknown
And I still have it. I love these are great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then. So. Yeah, so I started messing around on that and figuring out a lot of stuff on my own with that. And then I joined, I do in choir in eighth grade, but in, but was really high school is where I, met one of my first, you know, big music mentors, my, high school, choir director, Mr. Boyd.

00:12:41:38 - 00:12:58:27
Unknown
He encouraged me. I had ideas for, like, arranging. So I ended up singing in a octet with, you know, like I was. I did a choir, and then we, you could audition for madrigals, which is like a smaller course. Yeah, yeah. And it's like the Midwestern, you know, you got to be in the madrigals. Exactly. Or set in hand.

00:12:58:32 - 00:13:23:03
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah, we did all that. Yeah. And, we, And then from there, I, we started, like an octet of male male singers. Which is mostly the dudes that were madrigals. And I wanted to kind of arrange stuff for that. And, and Mr. Wood was always encouraging me, to do that. There were, there were a couple of male groups that were all like the nylons and bands like that.

00:13:23:03 - 00:13:40:17
Unknown
Yeah, right. Kind of. That was a thing for a while. It was so cool. Yeah, yeah. There was like a little, little, little scene happening here and there and then and. Yeah, like in a U of I, it was a big thing too, which is kind of funny. Like, acapella groups and improv groups were like all the rage when I was there in the late 90s.

00:13:40:24 - 00:13:58:00
Unknown
Okay. As well as Scott Bass was I can talk about you. I was in the Scott band. It was late. You can feel a little bit of, an influence with that, you know, stupid Icarus. You know that? Yeah. Yeah, that's that's, that, you know, a little of that Latin feel to it.

00:13:58:00 - 00:14:25:36
Unknown
So definitely the sky, the, you know, but, maybe not so much scomo, but, you know, there's a there's a vibe. Yeah. That, that I picked up on right away that I thought, wow, this is highly unusual. Yeah. Okay. Capers keeps bringing out more toys. Yeah, that's your job on the show, guys. All right, so the, you know, Mr. Boyd, it's great to have a mentor like that in your life.

00:14:25:40 - 00:14:45:34
Unknown
And so it's interesting that you, you know, you had musical people around you, but it took this guy came there to tell you. Yeah. Was it that kind of talk like, hey, you can do this, or is it, was it more like, you're going to do it? And it was, it was maybe more of the latter. Like, like I think he recognized something to me.

00:14:45:34 - 00:15:10:25
Unknown
Like a seriousness about music. You know, I, I was always obsessed with it. And that definitely is what I think helped my early development as a musician. I think anybody, you know, they I don't I'm a believer that, you know, talent isn't something that just magically happens to you. It's it's that it's that natural interest that you have that drives you to do all the work, to learn these, to learn instruments, sort of like you.

00:15:10:30 - 00:15:30:48
Unknown
And and so I was already I was already already, you know, just driven it for sure. So I think, you know, he recognized that in me. And just to seriously, you know, I know listen to these groups and make it into these groups and things like that. I was always made me feel like a good musician. And I was encouraged to be a leader in some of these groups.

00:15:30:53 - 00:15:58:58
Unknown
So, yeah. Yeah. Be taking seriously for something that weird. I don't, you know, is, you know, I think it goes a long way, you know? Well, it's it does go a long way. Especially because, you know, again, it's so difficult to try to, to chart a course in, you know, I, people I talked to with these interviews, nobody there is nobody out there that says, here's how you do it.

00:15:58:58 - 00:16:24:03
Unknown
There's no yeah, here's how you do it, right? Yeah. And that's out of all the professions and, you know, even artists, visual artists, somebody saying, well, here's how you do it. Yeah. You know, but with music, as far as making a career out of it, it's it's so, jumping off a cliff. Yeah. Kind of feeling so, you know, when you graduated from, you will be,

00:16:24:08 - 00:16:50:21
Unknown
Were you, you know, ready to jump into it or you like, you know, what am I going to do? It was poised. Oh, God. What am I going to do? Yeah. So, like, I mean, I knew I didn't want to be, I didn't want to be a composer, even though I was. Even though I was in composition, I, I knew I wanted to maybe be more of a songwriter, at least in that time.

00:16:50:26 - 00:17:08:55
Unknown
I liked playing in bands. I was playing drums in groups. But a lot of actually, at that point in time, I was an even in the school band college, I was playing guitar in that group. Takes a lot of, yeah, exactly. It was great for a drummer, for percussion. Yeah. And, so, yeah, I liked writing that kind of stuff.

00:17:09:00 - 00:17:31:48
Unknown
Yeah. I had little ideas, like, maybe I'm not in the musical theater. I had, like, little ideas for musical things like that, but, like. But, Yeah. And U of I was also like the, Man, I can't I don't want to just crap on, everything and on people, but like, if they, they were really stuck in one mode and mode, it was, it was what was it called?

00:17:31:48 - 00:17:57:35
Unknown
New music. Right. So anything that was tonal or rhythmic or just, you know, popular in any way, they kind of looked down upon, they really wanted you to create something that was always new. And I and a lot of times I just thought that was stuff that sounded, you know, just weird for the sake of being weird or, you know, atonal for the sake of being into atonal.

00:17:57:40 - 00:18:22:29
Unknown
They were obsessed with serialism, you know, that was just like, like, composing by, like, numbers and like, you get a, you assign each pitch to a number and, and make a matrix and, and do these stupid little. Yeah. How weird. I mean, very weird, you know, to to to go that route, which is also funny because that, I've learned later, is something from the early 20th century.

00:18:22:29 - 00:18:40:50
Unknown
So even though they were talking about new music, they were showing me these these things that were new, you know, nearly 100 years before. So, so I also noticed similarity between them and like, my friends who were into, like, punk music, who were like, who? It was just this mentality where if people like it, that it can't be good.

00:18:40:50 - 00:19:03:18
Unknown
You know, if it's if it's popular, then they've then they've sold out or they're commercial or whatever, you know, and it's just the best definition of punk music ever. But I mean, people like it. It's not punk, right? Yeah, exactly. You know, that's so true. Yeah. Right. And I always found that little close minded. And I have, like, one of my best friends who was a big punk guy, you know, and when Green Day like, hit, he's like, yeah, it's not fair.

00:19:03:20 - 00:19:18:55
Unknown
They're they sold out or he sold out. Now he likes Green Day. You know like I think it's it is a style of music is a genre that you can get into. And I, you know, definitely learned being that scarf and, you know, which fits in well with the pomposity. Yeah, exactly. You know, the excitement of punk live.

00:19:18:55 - 00:19:42:32
Unknown
So I'm not I'm not dissin punk, but there's that mentality that, that I think, you know, I saw in both places, both in the, in the, educational sphere as well as in the underground, you know, like, commercial music that, you know. Well, I want you to, select a second song that we can hear and talk about, and, and then we will take a little break, but and then continue on the other side.

00:19:42:32 - 00:20:02:59
Unknown
I think we should continue. What what I mean, or like once you, you know, you started charting your course, you know, so, but what do you have for us? Why don't I dig back? We'll go to, So, speaking of school here, you can definitely have a sky influence on this one. We go, I mean, you know what?

00:20:03:04 - 00:20:20:23
Unknown
I'm a little older than you, so, like, my second choice back in the 80s was like, madness. Second wave. Yeah, right. And step beyond. You know, I with the real parents ax. I mean, there was. Yeah, that's great stuff, but, yeah, there is. I learned when I, you know, got into this guy in the 90s or these are three waves.

00:20:20:23 - 00:20:39:10
Unknown
That was the first wave, which was the 50s, 60s reggae. Right. And then yeah, there's the 80s, like the English. Good. You know, they all kind of picked up on it. Yeah. That's their, their have to do. Yeah. That kind of. But so what do we got. This one is so this actually has me singing in it.

00:20:39:14 - 00:20:49:20
Unknown
I will mix it up that way too. Where is it? Here. It's called spot one. Okay. All right, listen, I.

00:20:49:20 - 00:21:13:10
Unknown
I love that even maybe even like, oh, 503 who run their own?

00:21:13:14 - 00:21:40:20
Unknown
See you. Classification for the beaches together. Close living brothers. Just leave it alone. Get a picture of it on your cell phone. Eat what you can on down on the phone and get there. We can never get up. Ever. Get high on day up, up. But take him to the mass. Open up them and say bye, baby. They always be afraid of me.

00:21:40:20 - 00:21:52:20
Unknown
Yeah. I always just wanted to say to you. Wait. I always remember what happened to always go. To get a chance to get.

00:21:52:25 - 00:22:23:01
Unknown
To. I can't believe my calling. And be. A top five. Wake up. Having fun? Thought it was 12. Oh, just go to the walk and do dance. If you don't want spend squad for the day, you're done. So stand beside the third turn up. Never heard time for the purple. They ain't got no to never get up. Babe I had a snow cone on the equator.

00:22:23:11 - 00:22:36:44
Unknown
You leave it on the pole. You roll on made up turn. Don't invoke me. Don't pay me to play. Celebrate. You can't see.

00:22:36:49 - 00:22:46:09
Unknown
Me.

00:22:46:14 - 00:22:51:28
Unknown
You say hey.

00:22:51:33 - 00:23:14:18
Unknown
Spend day in my face. And I say it's silver. Say to be me.

00:23:14:23 - 00:23:43:47
Unknown
Don't. Food when in heaven. By spreading. Keep butter all over your body I speak to be right between your eyes. This is right when you win by this turn. Baby come take a sip a microwave. You can get better. They become good friends five. Take up for 817. Take Frisco for boom. Beat up Ginsburg went to a six.

00:23:43:52 - 00:23:55:20
Unknown
It doesn't matter if you get your straight up. It bangs on me getting ready to rip it up. Baby.

00:23:55:25 - 00:24:02:22
Unknown
It's.

00:24:02:27 - 00:24:17:12
Unknown
You. If you. Say it then. What do you do?

00:24:17:17 - 00:24:30:00
Unknown
It. You.

00:24:30:05 - 00:24:45:18
Unknown
Do it! Hey. The third of the five keys is to have at plans and target dates. To get.

00:24:45:18 - 00:25:08:57
Unknown
Hey. Want to show your support of Martin's artist endeavors? Buy Me a Coffee is an online site that makes supporting Marty easy. In just a few tabs, you can make a payment of any amount and no account is needed. You can also decide to become an ongoing supporter. Go to Martin mccormack.com and click on the words support. Mark.

00:25:09:02 - 00:25:17:02
Unknown
Let's help Martin keep it all caffeinated.

00:25:17:02 - 00:25:30:03
Unknown
we're back. Let's talk about someone. First of all, I'm hearing this, a great song where are you performing this stuff? A live or so.

00:25:30:03 - 00:25:59:29
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, that, So that's what the band called bifocal. That's just me and one other dude, Jesse Kreider, who partner in crime. And, so we've been together since, well, since 2004, I think. Three, 2000, three, 2004, because we think, and, we're just a duo. So I actually sing, so I play drums and I, and I also have a microphone that I have plugged into a down octave pedal.

00:25:59:41 - 00:26:16:09
Unknown
Okay. And I plug that into a bass amp, the looper sometimes, I have always had a looper, but I use it sometimes. And that's it. It's an analog down on the pedal, and it kind of makes the voice sound a little muddier. Right? And more like, like a reggae bass or a tuba or something.

00:26:16:14 - 00:26:32:42
Unknown
And, Yeah. So that's what you heard there. That's what we call, like, vocal bass. So I can sing and play and that and that particular song, I boop that you can hear the repetitive line get. And so we loop the that and then I'll do the lead vocals and Jesse will be some backup vocals. But he's a girl.

00:26:32:47 - 00:26:55:03
Unknown
He plays guitar. Yeah. Okay. And, and and. Yeah, he's a co-writer, on I mean, I wrote most of that, but he kind of. Right. Didn't help with some of his own guitar parts. More often than not, he does. And, yeah, he'll do as well. And, and, and we'll get, we'll, we'll, we'll try and sound like, you know, for writing or more people, with just the two of us.

00:26:55:12 - 00:27:14:48
Unknown
Well, you sound you sound like a fool. Yeah, a fool when we were cheating in the studio there you know, in the studio, you're supposed to be an organ. That's, That's real. That's always the, you know, eternal argument, right? Oh, authentic. Do need to be in the studio, right? I mean, that's why you go into a studio just to kind of keep the candy shop.

00:27:14:50 - 00:27:40:14
Unknown
Yeah, we want your record. So that we just did in our rehearsal space over Superior Street back a bunch of years ago. Yeah. We, I don't even remember what we used, I don't think I think we use, like, sonar or something. A cheaper program or whatever. And, yeah. So that was an experience because we, we had all the time in the world to, to to mess around.

00:27:40:14 - 00:27:57:00
Unknown
And we took it like we sometimes a little bit too much. But like we there's one little spot in there where you hear like everything fade out and our voices come out with some stupid. It's like space cheese in your face. Like there's some, porn reference. Yeah, right. Little girl. Stuff like that right there. Yeah, right. There's.

00:27:57:05 - 00:28:12:49
Unknown
We use, like, samples and stuff. We had a record player, and all these, like, found records that we had, and, and so we just went at it and made it, and just, like, did every little thing we could think of and put it in there. I wouldn't suggest doing that. Because you can just get hung up on.

00:28:12:49 - 00:28:35:43
Unknown
Sure. You know, song never being done. But I had an awesome vibe, had that opportunity. Since then, we've been into real studios. We're paying for studio time and yes, you're you got to kind of have your your ideas down before you go in. Well, let's, let's head in that direction because, it's. Yeah, it's fascinating. You were presented already with, the two selections to why the divergent.

00:28:35:55 - 00:29:09:11
Unknown
Yeah. Sounds. Yeah, yeah, that you are. You are, you know, putting out there to the public and, and you're making a living at doing this. So how how did that all come about? You know, for you to accomplish that because that's pretty. Yeah. I while I didn't so I first tried to just, you know, make it go at and being a full time performer, at a College of Music composition degree wasn't really going to do much for me.

00:29:09:13 - 00:29:34:30
Unknown
Right? So, so I, you know, found some bands, started bands. I was, Yeah, kicking around doing that. And then I just have some, you know, day job that I had no passion for. I was a dog walker. I was a, delivery driver and things like that. And just. I didn't want anything that took away my creative time, creative energy.

00:29:34:35 - 00:29:51:23
Unknown
But I was also not making enough money. Sure. I mean, that's the hard part. Yeah. And then. And so, Yeah. So eventually I, you know, I had a lot of friends who were teaching private lessons who were saying, like, I didn't want to do that. You can. I was like, can I, you know, I didn't really go to school for that.

00:29:51:23 - 00:30:30:23
Unknown
I, you know, I, you know, I don't have a degree, but to teach private lessons, you know, more often than not, they're looking for performance experience. And so, yeah, so we, I got it was like 2008 maybe, you know, the seven, 2008 I started, subbing for, for other drum teacher, another drum teacher in particular. And then, another friend of mine, started, her new somebody was starting a music store, and, yeah, I, I ended up getting my foot in the door there, and they hired me as, as a drum instructor with my with my, you know, subbing experience, and, yeah.

00:30:30:23 - 00:30:50:10
Unknown
And that and so, so I've been teaching private drum lessons and private voice lessons eventually, but didn't start with voice. I wasn't confident doing that. And people are like, well, you're a singer and you studied voice. Let's try that. Stepped into that. More recently, my employers have encouraged that. I teach piano beginner piano as well, because just they have so many such an influx of piano since all the time.

00:30:50:15 - 00:31:06:46
Unknown
And so I started doing that as well. Yeah. So so it's. Yeah. Does that pay the bills and is it does I mean also, it helps that, my wife is, is, gainfully employed in the, in the corporate world. So she, she's, she is definitely the bigger breadwinner of the two of us. Sure.

00:31:06:46 - 00:31:32:21
Unknown
But, but, yeah, you know, it definitely. And it's and it's music. It's in music, you know, it's not it's not a delivery driver or whatever. So I'm making money or something. I can be relatively passionate about it. I think that's awesome. I mean, and I think that's a very good point to make that you can find your way of, of, you know, making your way, performing or teaching or whatever, and that, that feeds the, the habit.

00:31:32:27 - 00:32:05:50
Unknown
Well, yeah. Of of of creating and, you know, the music, terrain is constantly changing. And, do you find yourself, you know, as the performing and then, like, necessarily performing these days has changed from, you know, coming up to, to see your band at that at venue as opposed to, yeah, I'm going to put it up on YouTube or I'm going to, but so tell us a little bit about that.

00:32:05:50 - 00:32:33:17
Unknown
How how does that work when you're in, you know, by vocal or, or at the big beyond the other band. Do you rely on that? Is that seem viable for you or. I mean, it's I mean, I think especially for original music, I that's another important thing. Like, I, I could make more money and I have friends who do play cover bands that, you know, or tribute bands, things like that, that are a little bit more lucrative for the lives.

00:32:33:17 - 00:32:58:15
Unknown
And we kept them. But not people weren't out to see a lot of original music live. Even when I started getting into this is actually 2000. But now, you know, people don't even want to go outside of their house, let alone, to see live music. And live music is, you know, way down the list and, and the, you know, the popular forms of entertainment, you know, whether it's competing with video games and social media and all that stuff.

00:32:58:15 - 00:33:16:21
Unknown
So, so, yeah, musicians have obviously found a way to to get into the social media side of things. And I think that for these bands, the all of the original groups, I thought I played a couple other groups too. I can talk about those if you want to, but, they're all doing original music and they want to play live.

00:33:16:21 - 00:33:39:51
Unknown
They want people to hear them, hear us doing it live. They want to, you know, they want where we go to the studio. We want you hear recordings as well. But, so the the media landscape, the online stuff is, is a lot of, of the means to promote more about the live stuff. But yeah, there's, there's also, those opportunities doing streaming, especially during pandemic.

00:33:40:00 - 00:34:08:18
Unknown
I started learning that, you know, all of these groups started doing more stuff online. So and, you know, a lot of people just never even shifted back away from that once things opened up again. So, so yeah, it's all mirrored. So there, there definitely live, music first, but like, but yeah, it's, it's it's an entirely different game now, is there a way really of, of, you know, sort of touring.

00:34:08:23 - 00:34:32:12
Unknown
If you're in the Chicago area, do you think that you can make a living doing a lot of music? It is freaking hard. Yeah. I, you know, doing live original music. You know, you had Charlie Otto on recently. He's he's he's one of the exceptions to the rule. He really set forth an agenda to to just do originals and get paid for it.

00:34:32:12 - 00:34:51:50
Unknown
And he'll you know, he's right. He has a, a bar that he sets for, for, for you about most musicians playing the original music, we're desperate enough that we will take less money and we're part of the fault. It's partly our fault for lowering those, lowering those standards. I always tell my students, like I get paid.

00:34:51:50 - 00:35:12:56
Unknown
You make sure you get it right. You're you're you're undervaluing what we do. But I've done it myself, you know, like, you just like. Well, we got enough for you to get out here live, and maybe we can recoup some of that from the door. The way Chicago works is, you know, it's a little frustrating at times. They want the band to to draw the audience.

00:35:12:56 - 00:35:32:41
Unknown
They don't go many, many clubs don't want any have any instrument. Yeah, I call it bring me the witch's brew. Yeah. That's how it works. You know. And you know, that's that's basically it. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Oh, yeah. Bring in, you know. Yeah. It's 1030 at night. We bring in, 200 people, right? On a weeknight.

00:35:32:41 - 00:35:51:48
Unknown
On a weeknight. And and we're going to prayer you up with a bunch of bands that sound nothing like you. So you're not even going to get a new audience, you know? Yeah, like I remember, you know, I, I was always got that elbow room rules and they're, they're not around anymore. Right. Figures. But like, yeah, they would, they would have you they let you play let you play on a, on a Tuesday through Thursday night.

00:35:51:48 - 00:36:13:11
Unknown
And if you drew over 30 or 40 people then you could play on, on near the, weekend night. And then if you didn't, you know, then they raise the bar of what you needed to draw that. Right. And I remember playing there and other places like this is not just them, but they that you know, I was with bifocal, which were a folk duo, and the first act was an acoustic act, the second was a metal band, you know, and then us in that on hip hop or whatever.

00:36:13:11 - 00:36:34:27
Unknown
Yeah. It's like, yeah, completely. So it's like, how are we even helping ourselves? This way. The club had no interest. They were just filling slots, you know? Yeah. And then. Yeah, it's. And then they expect you to, to to be magically do, well and it and I always look it was we're providing a service. We're working for them just like the door person and the sound person and the bar staff.

00:36:34:27 - 00:36:52:28
Unknown
But we don't get anything up front or any guarantee or, you know, and from some places, there are a lot of places out there, more in the suburbs, but that that actually respect the music. Maybe we're jumping a little ahead into the second interview, but I like I let's go with the flow. I mean, is there a way to to to counter that?

00:36:52:28 - 00:37:31:17
Unknown
I love that you're telling your students get paid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I, I if I knew I'd be more successful, right. I think I yeah, I think you have to. Yeah. If your focus my focus, I just want my focus to be on the creative side and, and I do have to just kind of, you know, just not worry so much about how successful I am in a lot of and a lot of instances and be grateful that I'm just out there doing my own thing, you know, and, and, I play with a lot of people who similarly respect artists and want them to be paid.

00:37:31:17 - 00:37:47:30
Unknown
So. So I'll play with a couple people who pay out of pocket, you know, like that. I write in and, a couple of my group. So, you know, at least just a token, you know, 50 bucks, a hundred bucks for coming out, you know, the bandleader will pay and maybe they recoup some of that from the from the value.

00:37:47:30 - 00:38:13:41
Unknown
But I know sometimes they're not. Yeah, yeah. And and, it's it's one of those hypothetical or rhetorical questions. How do you create a scene? Because, you know, you you properly identify the fact that, the, the landscape is changed in the sense that live music is not what it was and nor it might not ever be. Yeah.

00:38:13:50 - 00:38:33:23
Unknown
And, and it it almost kind of makes you wonder if, And I wonder this too is do you set up your own little cooperative? Do you. Because now you're doing two things. So you have to cultivate an audience. You have to train. And this comes up time and time again when I'm talking to independent musicians like you, it's just.

00:38:33:28 - 00:39:13:25
Unknown
How do you train an audience to get into. Yeah. Being an audience. Yeah. Because we lost. We lost not only with the pandemic, but leading up to the pandemic. With social media. We people have forgotten how to really be an audience for original music specifically. Yeah, I think yeah, they know they can come on, they can listen to you at your, you know, and that's why, you know, a lot of cover bands, have so much success because if you're doing the Eagles, you know, and you know, somebody is going to say, oh, you know, okay, I can, I can go and I can uncomfortable there because I know, you know, they're going

00:39:13:25 - 00:39:37:31
Unknown
to do, you know, take it easy. Yeah. Yeah. But you know here's bifocal. Yeah, yeah. And what do I do? I, you know, what do I do? Yeah. So, I guess I'm, I'm going to throw it back at you and to see, you know, your successful musician. Yeah. And, and because you're, you're doing it.

00:39:37:43 - 00:39:59:58
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. And so, so that's, you know, I, I and I think that's in terms of like finding audiences as well, it's, it's perseverance, you know, it's it's it's doing it's doing it for the right reasons. That's what's going to allow you to persevere. Like if you're trying to make $1 million next week, you're going to get discouraged easily, right?

00:39:59:59 - 00:40:21:34
Unknown
Yeah. But but and but being grateful that you're able to do original music, you know, they they've got a big audience they can sell out, you know, marketers and, and middle midsize venues, just sold out, albums and space. Well, it's a it's a it's a good partnership. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they had it. They were I hear you guys, and I'm not too not to namedrop here.

00:40:21:34 - 00:40:43:07
Unknown
They ran a Tiny desk concert a bunch of years ago, early on in the tiny desk days. But, but knowing that, you know, that was before I would join the group. They've been. And they've been around also for 20 some 20 plus years. I mean, I joined in 2017, I think, but I knew they had done all this other stuff and that they toured and, and and I was just like, oh, wow, here's, you know, my ticket.

00:40:43:21 - 00:40:59:27
Unknown
They start doing my music and like, great. And then, you know, I was just kind of Peter and along it's nothing, you know. Yeah. Like we're nuts. Six cessful and we have an audience, but it's like just the live music in general. It's hard to generate a new audience. We have a lot of loyal fans that have been around for a while.

00:40:59:27 - 00:41:22:36
Unknown
And, but yeah, you got to find that that niche, right? That that niche or niche river, like, for your group, you know, even by bicycle doesn't have a big following by any stretch. But yeah, we have the some fans, you know, and people who are paying attention here and there, even if it's not, I think you brought up the magic word, which is perseverance.

00:41:22:41 - 00:41:52:41
Unknown
And to some of it, some of it is also, just being realistic about the music industry or the lack of industry here. You know, the idea of Grammy Award or something like that. What, you know, what is validation, right, for you being a musician? What? What is for you, Herschel Edwards, when you wake up and, do you have any kids?

00:41:52:42 - 00:42:16:14
Unknown
Do you? I don't know, okay. So you know, your wife, you know, you know, you're, you know, not only raking the leaves around the house, that sort of stuff. Right? But you're you're making it happen as a musician. But like I said, you don't belong to some guild where they're going to turn around and, you know, say, okay, well, you know, here's your gold watch right now like that or.

00:42:16:14 - 00:42:48:40
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. You know, so how do you how do you validate yourself? I mean, I don't know, it's, I, I feel like there's, there's, there's a selfish side and there's the giving side of, of music. Most of it is the selfish side. So for me, I can wake up and just get an instrument and start having fun, you know, like, and messing around and, get in that mindset.

00:42:48:40 - 00:43:04:23
Unknown
And I can amuse myself with music all day long, and I don't have it, and I don't need to play for anybody. And I can still feel validated. I can do you know, I know I'm getting that enjoyment out of it. It's even more so when I'm interacting with other musicians. I think a lot of times, too, that's a big part of it.

00:43:04:27 - 00:43:39:06
Unknown
The, so, yeah, so that acceptance of that from other musicians, people who want to play with you, you know, you feel like, oh, I'm providing something that's useful for other people who who I respect. And, and then, you know. Yeah, I don't in terms of the audience, you know, I don't I've learned to not care as much, if if they're noticing, I'll play gigs where everybody's chatting and doing their own thing and I'm like, I'm putting my heart out here.

00:43:39:06 - 00:43:55:41
Unknown
No, no, you guys don't give a damn. And, But, but you do get people who who are into it. And even then, sometimes you're just like, yeah, well, you don't know why you didn't hear how bad I just played there. I, you know, realize how, you know, that was not as good as you thought or whatever.

00:43:55:46 - 00:44:17:13
Unknown
So, but, I realized at some point, you know, they're getting something out of listening to you, just like I'm getting something out of whatever what I'm listening to. And if I'm. If I'm moving somebody, you know, the way I'm moved by any music that I'm just like, Holy crap. That's that's an amazing, right? It's an amazing feeling, you know?

00:44:17:13 - 00:44:56:29
Unknown
And and, you know, just bringing a little change into somebody's life that way. Well, before we have, you played the final song for this interview, and then we're going to go on and have another podcast, as always, where we delve into the creative genius and the method to the madness, I guess. But, I guess the question I have for you then is, you almost have to hear kind of, a sense of, of, healthy ego, or lack of ego maybe, to, to understand that, you know, part of it is your personal joy.

00:44:56:29 - 00:45:19:32
Unknown
Right? But then, you know, and and part of it is the fact that you're in an environment that's kind of hostile. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. If we were in Europe. Yeah. You know, they would be saying, okay, well, you know, here's your grant and here's, you know, here's, you know, it just you're in one of the most hostile environments for a lot of music.

00:45:19:32 - 00:45:40:47
Unknown
And that's what I, I like to impress upon people. Just like you're out there, you know? This is tough. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You really have to, Yeah. You have to have your your your constitution straight, you know? Yeah. You can get bruised very quickly and easily or discouraged, you know, and just want to get out of music entirely.

00:45:40:52 - 00:46:11:12
Unknown
Creative people don't necessarily excel in, business or self-promotion and that kind of thing. We want to just be able to do the creative thing and, you know, I didn't want to hear that, especially, you know, early on. And, I think it helps to find find those people that, that, that, that, you know, so whether it's another musician who happens to have the those skills, which I think is the case with like Jesse and bifocal, he's got, he's got a little bit of the drive to be able to do the business end of things for us.

00:46:11:12 - 00:46:34:42
Unknown
Create moving parts is a bigger entity. So there's definitely people who can lead at that front. If you're lucky enough to find that, that's great. But yeah, it's it's it's even then you're it's the system's not set up. Very well. For, for the business of me of, of creatives. And so yeah. Is your spouse, is she like you know, hey you know so that's a good question right.

00:46:34:42 - 00:47:02:22
Unknown
She's she's encouraging, you know, I think there's been you know, there's moments where, you know, what I, you know, I especially when I was gigging even more frequently, you know, it's tough. Yeah. Like, you have not having weekend nights, always open to that kind of thing. Yeah. But, but yeah, but the other, the other thing I think I can say is I don't know what else I could possibly do.

00:47:02:27 - 00:47:31:26
Unknown
Right. Like, this is, this is a calling that I can't escape. Like, I would be very depressed if I wasn't able to do music in some way, you know, or another. And I think the fact I found a little ways to make some money here and there is, is helped. But I think she recognized that, you know, this is my identity and I, you know, there is, there is no, you know, desk job or whatever that's going to bring this passion out of me.

00:47:31:31 - 00:48:12:04
Unknown
And, and so, yeah, I think you're tapping into all the, the right, words to describe an independent musician that, it is your identity. Yeah. You know, and and even if you were, delivering pizzas or something like that, it's not going to change the fact that you are, you know, a musician, the fact that you crafted your career to include, making money by not only doing music, but inspiring the next generation with music and giving them great advice, about just the simple thing like, you know, don't have to always get paid.

00:48:12:18 - 00:48:32:05
Unknown
Yeah, whatever. You're going to get it, you know? I mean, you know, because that's that's what keeps this thing integral. But, you know, one of these days where we're going to have to have, like a round robin of, of all these, we're, we're going to try to figure out how do you create the guild? I don't know, it just, you know, it doesn't exist.

00:48:32:06 - 00:48:54:13
Unknown
And, and it's but it's so important to know that there are people that are out there that are persevering like you. And so just the presence that you're doing it, that your wife supports you, that you've made your course of doing music and you're in more than one band and, you know, audience, if you get along, that's great.

00:48:54:18 - 00:49:21:25
Unknown
But you're also you're also charting the course with an audience, you know, it would, you know, the training an audience is something that, I don't think any musician right now has a handle on. Yeah, let alone a club. Right, right, right. I think, this is this is uncharted waters where we are right now. And, you know, even big acts are trying to figure out you know, what do I do?

00:49:21:25 - 00:49:40:25
Unknown
I mean, there's Elvis Costello was also up at space. Yeah. And so when you have a big fish swimming in, you know, what would have been a small pond, right? Once upon a time, you know, the field has changed. So you have to be very creative and you're being creative. So kudos to you. And, play us out.

00:49:40:25 - 00:50:12:23
Unknown
Tell us what the final song for this podcast is. Let's do something. Yeah, whatever. Why don't we go to, Let's try let's do another. We'll do another bifocal. With that's, it is called hold it five, six, seven, eight. This is a bifocal original, but we ended up recording it with, another group called Origin of Animal.

00:50:12:27 - 00:50:33:52
Unknown
Which is like, they're a little more, similar to Google pads in that there's a it's a big group, but it's a little more of a revolving door. So, but yeah, all kinds of instruments, pretty much anything they can. Cool. I love it. So, Yeah. And, so this is a bifocal tune as performed by bifocal with origin of animal.

00:50:33:57 - 00:50:34:39
Unknown
Okay.

00:50:34:39 - 00:50:57:49
Unknown
567.

00:50:57:54 - 00:51:05:17
Unknown
Eight.

00:51:05:22 - 00:51:55:02
Unknown
Three.

00:51:55:07 - 00:52:15:43
Unknown
Three.

00:52:15:47 - 00:52:20:38
Unknown
Eight.

00:52:20:42 - 00:52:25:38
Unknown
One.

00:52:25:43 - 00:52:47:25
Unknown
Two.

00:52:47:30 - 00:52:57:08
Unknown
Eight.

00:52:57:13 - 00:53:00:22
Unknown
Three.

00:53:00:27 - 00:53:21:19
Unknown
Three.

00:53:21:24 - 00:53:49:31
Unknown
Three.

00:53:49:36 - 00:53:53:05
Unknown
Three.

00:53:53:10 - 00:53:56:43
Unknown
Three.

00:53:56:47 - 00:54:14:40
Unknown
Three.

00:54:14:44 - 00:54:47:22
Unknown
Three.

00:54:47:26 - 00:55:00:44
Unknown
Three.

00:55:00:48 - 00:55:14:30
Unknown
Eight.

00:55:14:30 - 00:55:41:48
Unknown
like. Wow. Yeah. So. So, Just amazing. And, I was just imagining, you know, seeing that live with the two of you guys pulling this off. Yeah, yeah. And you know, as well, but, but just what a pleasure to listen to you. Thank you. Thank you. So we're going to leave it at this interview, and we're going to continue on getting more into the creative and, talking about other things.

00:55:41:48 - 00:56:03:42
Unknown
But, thank you for listening. And I want to thank you, Hershel Edwards. And throughout this, you can see, the various websites, and, if you want to take a lesson. Right. That's right. Now, I've got, you know, in more than one, genre two, you know, the drums, piano, whatever the unseen. So that's fantastic.

00:56:03:42 - 00:56:14:14
Unknown
And, we'll see you next week with more Herschel Edwards. Strong. I know I got that out of my mouth. Okay. We'll see you next week. Bye bye.

00:56:14:14 - 00:56:31:57
Unknown
Thank you for listening. For more information about this show or a transcript, visit Martin mccormack.com while there. Sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung Out.

00:56:32:02 - 00:56:44:49
Unknown
It's so strong. Spain, we feel, makes no sense at all. The swan song wasn't part of the deal, was no good. All giving no choice. Giving us a.