Strung Out Episode 263: A MAGICAL BEAST-HERSHYL EDWARD'S CREATIVE PROCESS

Take a drum teacher, add songwriting, arranging and divide between an eclectic marching band and a duo that does looping, bass lines vocally and rocks as full band would.  Keeping true to the beat of his drum, Hershyl Edwards is a powerhouse, performing with Macca Pazza, whose Wikipedia page describes as "an interdisciplinary instrumental music and performance ensemble."  As part of a group that can number 30 players, Edwards has written pieces for the group, such as "Stupid Icarus" that flares with energy drums, vocal bass, loops, vox and Jesse Crydeman playing guitar, loops, and vox as well. It is a rich auditory concoction that explores different genres of music and sound.  Both groups perform regularly in Chicago and throughout the world.  But there's also Edwards the instructor, mentoring students as he himself had been mentored at the University of Illinois.  He teaches at Musical Expressions of Naperville on the kit as well as instruction in voice.  This first interview delves into his background, growing up and how he ended up pursuing a musical path.  Another strong example that independent musicians can create their journey, make a living from it and deserve recognition and respect for being artisans in a world (especially in the US) that dismisses such ingenuity.  In this second interview, Edwards talks about how he goes about writing his music.  He reveals the various methods of capturing melody, as well as lyric writing. These skills are also passed along to the students he teaches. 

For Edward's teaching, go to:
https://www.ensembleschools.com/musicalexpressions/staff/hershyl-edwards/ 

https://www.facebook.com/hershyl.edwards.2025/
https://bifunkal.bandcamp.com/
https://www.facebook.com/muccapazza

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:14:44
Unknown
Welcome to Strung Out, the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist. Your host is the artist, writer and musician Martin Lawrence McCormack. Now here's Marty.

00:00:14:44 - 00:00:46:05
Unknown
to Strung Out. And this is, the second part of my interview with Hershel Edwards. And, if you haven't checked out the first interview, do so some fantastic music. Profoundly creative. Singer songwriter, composer or teacher of, the youth and, which is great and, has managed to be a full time independent musician, which, you get the Strung Out award here you go to.

00:00:46:10 - 00:01:11:49
Unknown
Congratulations. For for being an independent musician. I mean that, because it's such a difficult, road, a whole, you should like to try to get into the creative and the things with, the second part and, we'll a kick it off with the song, pretty soon, but, you are like, Uber creative.

00:01:12:01 - 00:01:40:41
Unknown
I mean, you know, you you are you are not only, composing for, a love kind of thing, but it's just this there's so many different little moving parts to your music that you think, is that just something that, when somebody comes to see you play, is that your trademark? Just that they're going to kind of get a Swiss watch or, you know, really, intricate moving parts.

00:01:40:46 - 00:02:07:16
Unknown
So cool. Thank you. Thanks. Yeah. I mean, I think, I like I like diversity, you know, so I think, you know, I like pop music as as much as prog music or whatever. And so I, I want, you know, I write for myself, I write what I want to hear. And so I want, I want to hopefully find an audience that, that likes those different things.

00:02:07:21 - 00:02:30:44
Unknown
You know, you can get a little more of a taste of one more specific thing that I do from, you know, moving parts than you would and, you know, from by Funko, for instance, which is so, you know, you can definitely have those different, avenues. I think that, like, you know, I think funk music, funk and soul was a big influence on me for a lot of, for a lot of stuff.

00:02:30:44 - 00:02:51:23
Unknown
And you can hear that coming out if I phone call in particular. But even, like, with Stupid Icarus, this song we played last week, the, it's, you know, there's a little bit of that kind of, you know, make your neck move. Hopefully you know, kind of stuff, you know? But yeah, definitely the, you know, I also learned that, you know, you're kind of writing to the group too.

00:02:51:24 - 00:03:17:59
Unknown
So with the parts, when I'm actually, like, scoring things out, there's a lot of different ideas come in that space than they would with by Falco, for instance, where I'm bouncing ideas off of Jesse and he's throwing stuff back, and it's a little more of a co-writing. Right? You know, thing. But also, evolves a little more organically, you know, that way to, whereas, yeah, when you're in front of a computer, you know, it's it's definitely a little more.

00:03:17:59 - 00:03:35:10
Unknown
Right? You know, again, you have more. It's like it's like being in the studio and having all this time though to, you know, and, you know, not having to worry about you worry, you know, a dream which was somewhat fulfilled in that by a phone call out when we were talking about that, when we were recorded in our own studio, the dream is to just write in the studio, you know?

00:03:35:12 - 00:03:53:21
Unknown
Right. And so, so yeah, in a sense, you, you know, when you're scoring stuff out, obviously it's sort of not that direct reaction that you get, but you're looking forward, you know, like, oh, I know this band is going to play this, you know, so and they can do this and I can add this and you know, and you can start to layer things a little bit more.

00:03:53:21 - 00:04:17:29
Unknown
But yeah, like stylistically though, I think my approach is a lot more so like I have this, this internal, you know, funk thing that definitely drives a lot of what I do. And I really appreciate, you know, a jam on the one, you know, that that James Brown might do, you know, and just, just, just, you know, having the right move me to all ends.

00:04:17:34 - 00:04:35:08
Unknown
But on the other end, I'm driven by, like, harmonic stuff, you know, like hearing these different chord changes and that's you know, when I, when I approached, you know, on my first job, teacher had my mom give me that keyboard. I remember, you know, figuring out a major chord on every, you know, chromatic. No going up, you know, which is not that weird.

00:04:35:08 - 00:04:54:22
Unknown
Really supposed to be hard, right? But then I picked up a guitar. I later I realized, oh, I can just do that with by going up by one fret, you know? Exactly. It's completely different entry points. But yeah, like, I remember trying to figure out a major chord on every for off of every key and, and eventually start putting these different chords next to each other and, and getting these different, you know, colors or whatever.

00:04:54:24 - 00:05:16:10
Unknown
And you start figuring out what you like more. And, you know, I get I get like, I love the Beatles, I love James Brown, these, these groups that would do, you know, a basic progression. Beatles were nice. The Beatles are great in the sense that they would do something great, become familiar, and then add that one little color chord, or that two little things here and there that are like, oh, wait a minute, okay.

00:05:16:10 - 00:05:35:01
Unknown
They're going that right. They kind of throw it. Yeah, it's they throw. Yeah. Yeah. Just nice. Yeah. Exactly. So so that definitely inspired me. But like I definitely get grumpy about you know modern pop is just volume 156 forward progression for everything or whatever. But there's a great there are great songs here and there that just do the simple thing too.

00:05:35:01 - 00:05:54:22
Unknown
So I'm always looking for both. Let's get this, you know, play for us a sample of of what you're working on and, you know, whatever you want. But, it kind of underscores a little bit of that James Brown influence, if you have something like that or, putting out on the spot, but.

00:05:54:22 - 00:06:19:11
Unknown
Yeah. Right. On Spotify, on, but that's or, you know, something that kind of shows, how you go about maybe we can deconstruct the song after listening to it here's. Yeah, this is a good one. We'll do, this more recent than some of the stuff you've heard so far, but not that recent. Also, Triceratops, which is by a by vocal tune, you'll hear the funk.

00:06:19:22 - 00:06:36:18
Unknown
You also hear a tritone for, like, a little, relation, which is one of my favorite, you know? Yeah. Okay. And but, Yeah. Is that where the triceratops comes? Yeah. Yeah. I don't like it, I like it. All righty. Yeah, I get ready to go. Here.

00:06:36:18 - 00:07:10:16
Unknown
It's.

00:07:10:21 - 00:07:13:55
Unknown
Baby.

00:07:14:00 - 00:07:18:34
Unknown
Baby.

00:07:18:39 - 00:07:27:41
Unknown
Baby. Baby.

00:07:27:46 - 00:07:30:42
Unknown
Hey.

00:07:30:47 - 00:07:37:00
Unknown
Baby.

00:07:37:05 - 00:07:45:06
Unknown
For me. Baby. You.

00:07:45:10 - 00:07:58:50
Unknown
You.

00:07:58:55 - 00:08:08:55
Unknown
Me. To be me.

00:08:09:00 - 00:08:12:40
Unknown
Baby, baby.

00:08:12:45 - 00:08:28:04
Unknown
Me, baby.

00:08:28:09 - 00:08:35:16
Unknown
And. Now you.

00:08:35:21 - 00:08:50:26
Unknown
Can.

00:08:50:30 - 00:08:53:31
Unknown
Be.

00:08:53:36 - 00:09:01:38
Unknown
You just be. Baby.

00:09:01:42 - 00:09:12:08
Unknown
Girl. I.

00:09:12:12 - 00:09:21:18
Unknown
Be.

00:09:21:23 - 00:09:31:49
Unknown
Baby. Be it.

00:09:31:54 - 00:09:35:16
Unknown
I.

00:09:35:21 - 00:09:43:41
Unknown
You and you.

00:09:43:46 - 00:09:51:34
Unknown
Baby.

00:09:51:39 - 00:10:06:05
Unknown
You.

00:10:06:05 - 00:10:34:43
Unknown
What? What a cool song. Thank you, thank you. I can I can hear the James Brown. Yeah. Yeah. And that influence, I was thinking, you know, it would. That would be something that, James Brown would feel very flattered to hear. Well, I think, you know, what a great influence. You know, James Brown toured with the not only, yeah, all the stuff he produced, the way he went about, executing his music.

00:10:34:43 - 00:11:02:18
Unknown
He was such a disciplinarian. Yeah. But then on top of it, a showman. But listening to that piece, very complex. And when you're building a song, are you in you're working in the studio. Are you texturing as you go along or you've got some idea of like your creative process with that? Is it just is it are you starting off with that guitar riff?

00:11:02:23 - 00:11:20:04
Unknown
What is it. Yeah. Well, how do you let's deconstruct it just a little bit for sure. Here in the viewer. I definitely, you know, well again, not always getting the advantage right in the studio, but usually at least with this one, we had a little extra time in the studio to add to it or help and help with the arrangement of things for sure.

00:11:20:04 - 00:11:43:52
Unknown
Right. But definitely there's a you know, I'm definitely, I compile ideas. You know, if you look at my, my my notes, my, my, notes app, you know, it's just it just a little loaded with. So you have a great. Yeah. Exactly. My junkyard dog, junkyard dog junkyard is the best way to put it, because I still go back and tap into that.

00:11:43:52 - 00:12:10:05
Unknown
I still find parts, you know, to take from, you know, and sometimes it's years and years later, I'll be like, oh, this idea really goes with that idea. I'll take two things and like, oh, I got a half a song. Almost. Right. Yeah. So, so yeah, with with Triceratops, you know, I definitely have the I don't know which came first, but I definitely have the, the baseline, the bone punch, the digging, the down, the dirt that going and then I think I, you know, kind of figured out, oh, that's really a, a minor one chord.

00:12:10:05 - 00:12:35:54
Unknown
And then the tritone major chord. Right. You know, so I had those offbeat guitar parts that I came up with, and then I think maybe as a separate idea I had about that, but, that was a little more kind of common, you know, funk groove or whatever. And so, yeah, I brought those in to Jesse that the c section that goes, dude, there's, that that little bit is a little more of his idea, I think he, he.

00:12:36:08 - 00:12:52:55
Unknown
Oh, yeah. Okay. So it was, you know, definitely still a collaborative thing going on there. And you can tell it's kind of guitar led, it's based off of those tri tones, but it kind of builds up from there. Right? Right. It's like sprinkling down to the. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. So so yeah. But in the studio. Yeah.

00:12:52:55 - 00:13:15:27
Unknown
So we recorded this in Austin with, a friend of ours, villager who? And he, he had access to a lot of other little instruments, stuff that were around. So he had I think there's. You can hear us. What's the Yamaha electric CPP nine? Some Yamaha electric keyboard that we kind of can hear in the in those, in those sections.

00:13:15:32 - 00:13:35:32
Unknown
A lot of vocal. So yeah. Stuff come in so that and then. Yeah. So I would say we really brought it back here to Chicago to mix it. And we had our friend, this guy named my boy Elroy, who, does like beatboxing is phenomenal. And he's also a producer of cool guys like live deejay producing and stuff like that.

00:13:35:37 - 00:13:53:19
Unknown
And songwriter, we have them come in. So everything there, it's made to sound kind of like, you know, DJ stuff, record scratching and stuff like that, but he's doing it all with his mouth. So yeah, that's what we definitely do. We want to get him involved on with, with that track. So. So yeah, we layered that in.

00:13:53:23 - 00:14:08:32
Unknown
Yeah. There's also a vocal base on that, I think. But sometimes we'll sometimes in the studio will reinforce it with, like, with electric bass. I don't think we, I think it was all vocal based on that. We have the concept of the vocal base. It kind of goes back to our previous interview where you were in like an acapella.

00:14:08:39 - 00:14:27:55
Unknown
Yeah, that kind of thing where, you know, the human, voice is it can do so many different things. Yeah. And I think, I think a lot of people, when they're creating, make the mistake of thinking that singing has to be singing. Yeah. You know, you got this great instrument. You know, they use it, you know.

00:14:28:01 - 00:14:44:19
Unknown
Right. And and, you know, and you hear here's brothers, right? Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You hear, I don't know again I mean, yeah, it's just maybe it's just what comes through my feeds and stuff like that, but yeah, I, I do feel like more people are just. And maybe it's the solitude of music to being online or whatever.

00:14:44:19 - 00:15:02:25
Unknown
More people are discovering what they can do with, with their voice. And you see that in those spaces. You know, I mean, I saw an ad for some, some music creating app where you like, sing a drum beat and then it makes a drum beat out of that, you know, for you. And then you can, you know, that kind of synthesizes your voice into other instruments.

00:15:02:25 - 00:15:20:26
Unknown
So you can make a recording essentially with, with your mouth. Still, you know, well, before we get into that, because you're heading into the land of AI. Yeah. Yeah. But, how do you know for you guys, with your partner, how do you how do you know when it's, you know, it's time to take it out of the,

00:15:20:31 - 00:15:37:08
Unknown
Yeah. Good question. As I was saying in last week, the when you have all the time in the world in the studio, sometimes it's very hard to know. And you can end up, you know, you know what? I'm calling George Lucas in your, your, your thing. You just keep going back and changing things. You,

00:15:37:12 - 00:16:09:21
Unknown
So I think, you know, we did this song, I think, live more before we went into the studio. That helps to kind of have that structure, you know, worked out the kinks. Yeah. All right, so you kind of know what's already working and what's going to, what fits with the format of the song. And, and now in that instance, it's, it's like the, the me and my boy Elroy stuff was just, you know, the icing on the cake, you know, we, we knew we we didn't need to take it much farther than that, you know, just adding little bits in here and here and there.

00:16:09:25 - 00:16:31:35
Unknown
It makes the recording process fun to write. Just and adding collaborators is always great thing to have. But like, it's. Yeah, it's you are kind of like, you know, a kid with a in a toy box, you know, and when you're in that situation against violence and mixing my metaphors there, but the. Yeah. So yeah, it's like it's,

00:16:31:40 - 00:16:53:40
Unknown
Yeah, it I've definitely learned you can, you can. It's hard to know when is that toy box might be more appropriate because you are pulling out stuff and you're like, yeah, you know, we can make this work and that, but, the the interesting thing is, is, when you're in the studio, when we talked about this a little bit, I mean, the studio is the studio.

00:16:53:45 - 00:17:18:03
Unknown
That's why it is a studio. Yeah. I mean, it's it's interesting. Almost. You kind of wish that the general public could be privy to the variation process in the studio, because it is fascinating when you kind of it is, you know, again, that toy box illusion of, pulling something out and saying, oh, my God, you know, I didn't know I had this, you know, this thing.

00:17:18:18 - 00:17:42:47
Unknown
Let's make this work. Yeah. And, but, is that, you know, with bifocal especially, is that part of the idea, like with the live thing is that you are kind of bringing that, you know, a little bit of a creative process to the mix. Or is it a little more, you know, once I score out everything, like triceratops.

00:17:42:52 - 00:18:04:20
Unknown
That's it, you know? Yeah, no, I don't I don't think the songs are ever really entirely finished again. I want to go back and George Lucas everything either. But like he also said, there are Star Wars movies and, which makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. But exactly. Yeah, it's almost like, you know, you're kind of releasing it into the wild and then.

00:18:04:25 - 00:18:21:28
Unknown
But from there there's always I'm not, I, I'm not a stickler for, you know, like, we've, we've done some of these Bionicle tunes. We'll just messing around in rehearsal. We do end up doing it at, you know, a to three fourths the tempo. We're like, oh, I kind of like that. Let's try that. You know, the next time we do the song, whatever.

00:18:21:28 - 00:18:43:55
Unknown
Yeah, we'll do, you know, make it funky or, or we have one song. It was called Rock sack. And then we ended up doing like a really faster, faster version of it and, calling it Fat Sack. And then it ends up, you know, because of that, it inspires new ideas. You know, we had a middle section that broke down in that song, and then we ended up, you know, changing that because of the tempo and whatever.

00:18:43:55 - 00:19:04:13
Unknown
So, you know. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm never. And I also learned early on when you're writing for a band, like one of my first bands where I was the primary songwriter, I was singing and playing guitar and, and they we just call it Herschel. They, you know, I had this. I'm the drummer. I had the drum parts pretty well.

00:19:04:13 - 00:19:21:59
Unknown
You know, I had a recording, I, you know. Yeah, yeah. And, and, and the drummer kind of learned my part a little different. And I remember at first being like, oh, you know, should I, you know, should I correct that? So I change that. Yeah. And eventually I realized it wasn't in any way necessary. Like I was being real picky about the, the, you know, the exact pattern I was doing.

00:19:21:59 - 00:19:45:48
Unknown
And it sounded this pretty much the same. No other person would have even noticed it. That difference. And then and it didn't. And then eventually I realized it. It wouldn't have bothered me to begin with. But also, it's better that he's happier playing, you know. Right with as well. Or, you know, I'm in a duo and, I've been working with, you know, Brian Fitzgerald for about 40 years.

00:19:45:56 - 00:20:08:57
Unknown
So that collaborative process. Yeah, we're not necessarily what you're talking about with the band, but to the point that, you know, you at some point you have to kind of let that, you know, let that artist take it and run with it. Yeah. Even if it isn't exactly what you want, there is a relinquishing of, of of some control.

00:20:09:00 - 00:20:29:59
Unknown
Definitely. But, you know, when you are working with somebody, you know, how do you, how do you guys go about it? You do say, okay, you're going to do this part or do you guys, or is it like, you know, you're both mad scientist sitting there and you're like, okay, you know, see if it lends.

00:20:30:03 - 00:20:50:21
Unknown
Yeah, right. Kind of thing or what? It's it's a little bit of both. It's definitely and so I, I've only had like two successful songwriting collaborate, like successful migrations, with different people. One guy was a bad scab. And I, we talked about last week, Dave Wesley, who, you know, that's when I first started learning.

00:20:50:24 - 00:21:05:21
Unknown
Know the kind of push and pull with that, right? Sure. I also learned that it's really freaking hard to create that with other with other people. Right. So that's my only on these two different projects. So you really have to have that exact right fit. It ends up being maybe I don't know about with him as much.

00:21:05:21 - 00:21:18:43
Unknown
It was a long time ago with Jesse, the phone bifocal. It's very democratic. You know, if one of us isn't into an idea, it's kind of kind of the idea just kind of dies there because it's like you know, we're not going, right? We're not as in, you know, one person's not as smart as half the man.

00:21:18:43 - 00:21:41:33
Unknown
So, so, so yeah, a lot of ideas go by the wayside. Sometimes we'll resurrect things, you know, but like, so the the dual has its own junkyard then. Yeah. As well. Yeah. Now show. Definitely. And that's, you know, you're bringing up so many, good points about, first of all, keeping stuff on the iPhone or, you score.

00:21:41:33 - 00:22:02:09
Unknown
So when you score, how do you like to do that? Are you doing it? Are you using a program? Yeah. Billions. And I use of alias. I do, yeah. That was again, it wasn't, until after I joined Luke and I started getting into doing that. Or I even bothered, because I was writing for smaller groups or whatever.

00:22:02:14 - 00:22:23:50
Unknown
But, yeah, a necessity. I realized, oh, this is way better tool. And, you know, one of the other people on my guy, like, hand writes everything, and then we'll hand write everybody's individual part of the way. Oh my goodness, that's that's a large workload right there. But so yeah it's this makes it really easy actually. First guidance specialist because I was doing I started bringing up George Lucas Star Wars project where we were doing star Wars music, that I had arranged.

00:22:23:50 - 00:22:46:12
Unknown
And another, guy was helping me do it. The interpretation of it, and, he suggested we use of alias, and so I ended up. That's a good program. Yeah, it is. But yeah, it's so it's the same thing, though. I got these ideas on my phone and me singing into it or playing guitar, like, the first song we showed last week, Stupid Icarus.

00:22:46:17 - 00:23:05:16
Unknown
I rode, yeah, I had a demo version of me doing drums. Guitar. I brought that to my vocal, and it just didn't really work for us. Weird. You know, in weird enough that I would bring it to us to to that group, but, you know, it didn't have all that capability to use all those instruments. At the, at the, in the early stages.

00:23:05:16 - 00:23:23:10
Unknown
So it was just kind of a guitar and drums and bass and, and I played some piano on it or something. And but yeah, didn't really have the links with by phone call. But yeah, then I get into in the book, and realize how this song is just perfect for them. And, and I was very inspired to get into the program.

00:23:23:10 - 00:23:36:56
Unknown
And then when you get into Sebelius, it's like, it's kind of like being in the studio where, you can write in the studio when you have the luxury to write in studio, you know, when you have these tools at your access, you know, obviously there's limitation in terms of the instruments you're using, but there's a lot of instruments.

00:23:36:56 - 00:24:00:50
Unknown
So more often I run into like, what the hell am I going to have the tenor saxophone do for this? You know, like I gotta you only have to fill space. I learned a lot about, you know, how instruments blend together and work together and, you know, yeah, it was a learning process. That song in particular, the whole outro of it is this this chord, this sort of out chord progression.

00:24:00:55 - 00:24:18:54
Unknown
It's, it goes down by a minor third and then a major third, a minor. But I mean, it just it never kind of winds up at the beginning. And we played it. I just had the chords and I had everybody playing whole notes. I in there trumpets and saxophones as well. And it went and like the two problems were happening.

00:24:18:54 - 00:24:35:57
Unknown
One was, all the horn players were crapping out because they're like, we can't play whole notes ascending by these like little bits for the last two minutes of that are minute and a half of the song or whatever. Sure, that is not possible for a trumpet player. And, and so that was a learning experience. Sure. But also we were all getting lost.

00:24:35:57 - 00:24:54:21
Unknown
We didn't know when the song was over or we didn't, you know, like the by ear, at least you can read through it like, like, but like the drummers were trying to just hear it and, you know, they have repeat, repeat, repeat so that, you know, it's not as easy to just count measures. And so one person in the group suggested maybe making will have having the themes pop up.

00:24:54:21 - 00:25:19:21
Unknown
And that's where you hear that Bubba, Bubba, Bubba ride of the Valkyries kind of pop in with the trombone section after, and then the trumpets kind of do this like fanfare idea with after. So that actually just enhanced the, the actual music in like, you know, like the Beatles, you know, those little surprises that. Yeah, it that for listener, you got to have those little surprises.

00:25:19:21 - 00:25:41:31
Unknown
Do you pick up the ear? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. To know that the the story of the song. Yeah. Progressions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pull out another song. We're getting close to our breakdown. This one, was something that, again, just, either band. They're both fantastic. And I like the fact that you're like, well, it's not being worked with.

00:25:41:32 - 00:26:01:28
Unknown
That's what the word I get. Yeah. You know, that's that's great to have that kind of outlet. Yeah. Definitely. So something for you guys to think about, too. You know, it's just, if it's not working with one thing and I'm surprised and maybe, maybe it is happening with you. Have you have you put yourself out there, as, you know, a hired gun arranger or.

00:26:01:33 - 00:26:28:52
Unknown
No. No, I have it so much. Yeah. That's the. I thought about it. It's I I'm I'm it's the the the idea of being on a deadline is seems a little more daunting, like. Wow. Well, as I mentioned, as a composer and will commissions and and, you know, just the idea of thinking like, oh, this person, this group of people are waiting for me to, you know, maybe not so much on a commercial sense or something like that.

00:26:28:52 - 00:27:02:02
Unknown
But I mean, as far as, you know, just, because, just hearing what you I mean, I could I just imagine somebody is going to be like, you know, reaching out. Yeah. Well, thank you, thank you. You know. Yeah. One of the things with Buca is they've also, again, with a lot of their, their successes and the that were pretty much all before I joined the group were, they have like, a couple songs and like, TV shows, soundtracks and stuff like that, you know, like weeds and and something on that show transparent.

00:27:02:07 - 00:27:20:31
Unknown
And so that was also a little fantasy of mine is, you know, but I think, you know, we need to be you got to push that. You know, you gotta you do need a publisher or somebody that to kind of, you can create your own publishing house, or you can, now even, you know, like, stuff, like even, like, see, maybe maybe they'll.

00:27:20:33 - 00:27:47:51
Unknown
Yeah, they, they help. They help you all the so you can get picked up, but, it's hard, you know, it's it's definitely hard, but not impossible. But, give us a piece. Let me go. Let's do, Let's see. Let's try a truly scary fantasy. Scary fudge. We'll do to look up most part of these things. Just, cost to start with.

00:27:47:56 - 00:28:10:25
Unknown
There we go. We'll do YouTube, see if the ads are sure. What's, It's called scary fudge. Scary. It's just a quick little ditty here. Yeah, I like I don't have to spell that one for me. Yeah, right. Okay. My wife actually found that word. For me. It means to hurriedly clean. What? Last minute when unexpected company is, right.

00:28:10:30 - 00:28:25:24
Unknown
Great. It's an awesome word. Yeah. Right. I originally it was kind of like housekeeping or something. Can I hope you give her credit? Yes. Oh, yeah, I definitely I mean, yeah, I imagine like this, like, you know, stop or this, like, time lapse of, like, somebody's cleaning their house quickly, and somehow she found this word. Oh, that's awesome.

00:28:25:33 - 00:28:34:33
Unknown
That's like. That's great. Great. Sometimes a lot of stuff like that. An old timer and it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. So let's go with lunch.

00:28:34:33 - 00:28:43:23
Unknown
I'm happy you come.

00:28:43:28 - 00:28:53:05
Unknown
In. And I.

00:28:53:09 - 00:29:00:02
Unknown
Mean.

00:29:00:07 - 00:29:02:58
Unknown
You.

00:29:03:03 - 00:29:40:12
Unknown
Are.

00:29:40:17 - 00:30:03:15
Unknown
My.

00:30:03:20 - 00:30:34:04
Unknown
Best.

00:30:34:04 - 00:30:57:43
Unknown
Hey. Want to show your support of Martin's artist endeavors? Buy Me a Coffee is an online site that makes supporting Marty easy. In just a few tabs, you can make a payment of any amount and no account is needed. You can also decide to become an ongoing supporter. Go to Martin mccormack.com and click on the words support. Mark.

00:30:57:48 - 00:31:05:48
Unknown
Let's help Martin keep it all caffeinated.

00:31:10:23 - 00:31:35:28
Unknown
That. Oh, my God, I love a great song. Thank you. I, you know, just you have that great big, fat Latin thing, and then you go into this and klezmer. Yeah. Oh, it was great. And then, you know, the little horn, you know, the almost Bavarian. Yeah, yeah. Oh, not all that little quaint. You know who I,

00:31:35:33 - 00:31:59:57
Unknown
What's running through my mind while I'm listening to this is like, you know. Yeah, you're probably born, you know, 100 years too late or whatever. You you would have been great with, the big band. Yeah, they, you know, I mean, the and composing, even though, like, there are some big bands that are out there, I like my brothers and, the outcast Jazz Band, which is, I think it's like a 20 piece band.

00:31:59:57 - 00:32:26:33
Unknown
That's a kind of piece of that. I think they would go nuts over, you know, it's you're having a lot of fun doing this, obviously, you know, and it's it's great when you're creating for, you're channeling the news for something that, you do, you know, this band, and, Yeah. What do you like surprising your band mates with?

00:32:26:37 - 00:32:45:45
Unknown
You know, is it kind of like. Yeah. Right. Hey, you know, try this, right? Yeah. For sure. Got curveball on. Yeah. Well, and I, you know, it's, I didn't think when I first started bringing music in for them. Like I told you, they're like, this is impossible to play. Do you like this? Like, this is too hard or whatever?

00:32:45:50 - 00:33:03:08
Unknown
I, I didn't think of myself as writing like, that complicated stuff. And that was stuff that was, you know, well, that was physically draining for them, obviously, but like, but also like with this song, that sax melody. But never, never, never, never, never, you know, I knew that was going to be that they were going to be like, all right, so what do they think we really got to do.

00:33:03:13 - 00:33:20:02
Unknown
So and it wasn't. Yeah apparently not. You know, again I'm not a sax player, so it's probably doesn't fall under the fingers as easily. But they're great musicians. So I knew they could do it. And they were always up for the task to be challenged. Well it, it it it just flows and then yeah like there's like that.

00:33:20:07 - 00:33:44:44
Unknown
So like sonically I do like little pivots. Right. Like so yeah. Yeah. You hear that outro. You know I have to play like there are at least three of the songs we listen to either outro. That's different now. I'm like a coda, kind of this right there, like so. And this one is a nice short one. And and the other ones are a little more bulk of the tune, but so I do like little pivots or, you know, you know, like, oh, we're going here now.

00:33:44:49 - 00:34:02:45
Unknown
I, I worry because I like cohesiveness, too, you know? And so I want, I want to have the, the flow, like you were saying, you know, I, I don't want it to sound, you know, the I like some prog music, but not all. And the stuff I like less is the stuff where it's like, it sounds like 4 or 5 different songs in one song.

00:34:02:50 - 00:34:21:59
Unknown
Pivoting, and it's a nine minute song. It's like, right, you just make it, you know, a couple of more catchy sort of tunes, right? But, but so yeah, I want to make sure that whatever I'm calling together, everything has its own catchy element, but it's also hopefully somewhat cohesive with with the other parts. So you can hear there's that there's kind of three different songs in there.

00:34:21:59 - 00:34:54:08
Unknown
There's the three different parts you talked about, you know, and they were all those were separate ideas, you know, but it flows and, and I like the you bring up the word pivot. You know, I'm pivoting is, is, it's perfect because it's not like you're, you know, stopping and you know, the piece is not forced. Yeah. You know, you get this, you get this great little like, like, you know, a sense of humor, you know, I mean, you have this big band sound and then, you know, the little club, it's it's it's.

00:34:54:11 - 00:35:13:01
Unknown
And this is a great big the perfect band for. Yeah, bringing in that sense of humor, but it's a it's a thing that I realized maybe even upon joining this group. Like music has the ability to, to to be anything, you know. And so, you know, so some people want serious, serious music and things to be, you know, very dark or whatever.

00:35:13:01 - 00:35:33:03
Unknown
But it's like if you can't relax a little bit and think that, you know, like even just going up a major scale and then playing the wrong note, you know, bom bom bom bom bom bom bom bom yeah, yeah. Like that's to me that's like funny. You know like I said people enjoy you know, inspire a little like oh I wasn't expecting that.

00:35:33:08 - 00:35:57:22
Unknown
You know like I was just good at doing that. You know I, I enjoyed my, my, neighbors across the alley that, you know, they're is, either like, Central American band or something like that. They'll bring in, you know, and as the evening goes on and you get a little under the in their cups and having starts going a little off key and I'm like, oh yeah, love that.

00:35:57:22 - 00:36:22:59
Unknown
Yeah. I mean I just I just love that they're they're kind of it just the dissonances is so refreshing. In a way like and but that's what a gem of a piece. We're going to take a little break, and we are going to be, back here with Hershel Edwards and, and as you can see, you've got some various websites for which you can contact him and find out about his bands.

00:36:23:03 - 00:36:54:13
Unknown
And, don't forget, he's also a teacher. And now I just, put him out there for hire as an arranger for. So we'll be back, after this short little break. Three, two, one. And we're back, and, I don't know if I even want to go on to air with you, because I feel like, you know, there's so much to talk about with what you're doing, but you're the perfect example of the anti-air.

00:36:54:17 - 00:37:15:55
Unknown
I mean, we're we're in a weird world. I just, a friend of mine, mine's a great singer songwriter, and he sent that, I think it's an article from The Atlantic that's, that the country music industry has discovered that I can crank out hits now, if it's all their. There. Okay, so that's what they're.

00:37:15:55 - 00:37:40:23
Unknown
Yeah, that's so they can, you know. Yeah. It's going to make them money. And when you're in the yard for, life, you know, you just mentioned it being a calling for you. How do you what kind of advice can you give your students? What kind of advice can you give people coming into this world? Now?

00:37:40:28 - 00:38:11:24
Unknown
We're. Yeah. You know, it was difficult enough. You know, it's difficult enough forging your your way forward as a musician, but now know you health you know, computers, you know, are competing should be competing with you. Especially if you're presenting it online. Let's say, you know, I don't know how often you're able to get together with your acts to to perform, but, you know, putting it out there online is the only way, really, a lot of artists are able to get things, out there.

00:38:11:24 - 00:38:41:53
Unknown
But is this can is it a threat? Is it something that, you know, you think, or is it too much of a crutch for some people? How do you I mean, kind of where are you at on that? Yeah. I'm. I'm still I'm torn. Still, I don't like the idea of. Well, first of all, I think it's being used, as you said, like for, you know, capitalistic gain here.

00:38:41:53 - 00:38:58:58
Unknown
And so that's what the music industry's been doing since I've known about it. Right. So like, they're, they're looking for the easiest way to write something that's going to reach people. And they find people who write songs, play songs they write, they find people to just double down on their success of their first hit and write a song.

00:38:58:58 - 00:39:18:23
Unknown
Their second song hit songs, or their second album songs that sound just like that, you know, that's been happening. And so it's just natural that I could easily try and fill that role. Part of me is curious, you know, what I could create once it's, you know, again, there has to be, like, trained music, I know, to learn this stuff.

00:39:18:23 - 00:39:39:32
Unknown
But if you could let I just be unleashed and, and and come up with wacky ass stuff that nobody's ever thought of before, I'd be curious to see what it does. I don't I don't think that it that, you know, it it's it doesn't it's not a motivator for people creating those things. So I don't know if we're going to see that anytime soon.

00:39:39:32 - 00:40:05:19
Unknown
And so I think that it that's what I on from from music anyway we talked about like new music before but I want to hear stuff that's coming in new directions. And you know, that's not the incentive behind I. So I feel like that's something I would tell people is, is look for a year, you know, don't look, you know, like, not only are you competing against these the songwriting teams, you know, that work for.

00:40:05:24 - 00:40:28:27
Unknown
Right. Pop artists that are writing for chord songs. Same for chords, that you can adapt and melody to very easily because of the way those chords go together. You know, now you guys and I do the same thing, so like, so find the human and that maybe I would help us realize because I know I when I see an I add, my first instinct is get this out of my face.

00:40:28:27 - 00:40:46:47
Unknown
You know, I can tell like the, you know, it's like good for some piece of furniture that looks fake, you know, and I know if you buy that, it's not going to look like that, you know, or or those, you know, I was listening and I was trying to watch a video of a cat video the other day, and it's like they're the voices I.

00:40:46:47 - 00:41:12:11
Unknown
And you can tell me, right? Like, I can't listen to this. I don't want to hear this fake crap. And and so I think that's a human thing that we're all kind of like rejecting that. And so yeah, I think in terms of writing music, that's kind of one of the last bastions where you can do you can go out there and do some, some very interesting things that that maybe they've been I mean, they've been kind of bent down, but that have that are not being more popularly done.

00:41:12:11 - 00:41:37:25
Unknown
And you can find those avenues that, that yeah, it's it's not going to do it. It's not for a while because there's no profit incentive and you know. Yeah. Well, but then it also kind of maybe, flows back to the idea of, performance. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, like when you, when you're up there, you know, especially with my phone, you know, I keep going to the dual thing because I'm, I'm very familiar with the dual kind of thing.

00:41:37:25 - 00:42:04:59
Unknown
But you know, how you want to have that diverse sound, you're using some technical, but there's there's that creative element. People have to see that. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think most humans need that. Yeah. At home, you know, I, I don't know. Yeah. It's just but yeah, you know, it's, it's, it's interesting that you can discern, you know, what is real and what's not real.

00:42:04:59 - 00:42:21:53
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. And it's not going to be as easily discernible as time goes on. Right? It's like, you know, like I just, you know, I heard, you know, this, you know, like Rick Beato, you know, that guy, you know, like I, you see, did a video. I haven't watched that one yet, but he and he's talking about how, like, you know, this technology is it's getting there.

00:42:21:53 - 00:42:45:52
Unknown
And now like you said, they're creating actual hits. Again it's it's in these very popular genres that I think are very easy to recreate. The sounds I heard this like, I, like blues singer, you know, I was like, damn, that's a it sounded good. Yeah. And I was I can I mean, it just kind of pissed me off because I'm like, you know, I still wish it was a real person, you know?

00:42:45:52 - 00:43:06:52
Unknown
Like, it doesn't, you know? Yeah. So I don't know, I don't know, I'm sure you know, the, the thing I think about as well, you know, you know, maybe, maybe 100 years from now when, you know, space travel is, and you can't go and perform on another planet, maybe that's the way it's going to go. Yeah, I know, I don't know, I don't know.

00:43:06:52 - 00:43:26:21
Unknown
I mean, and it maybe not anything to be scared of, but I think the human element is really kind of at the end of the day, I think it's going to become more of an artisan world, I think. Yeah, I think and I think, yeah, I think the, the pendulum kind of squared shifts too, right? Yeah. Like like yeah.

00:43:26:21 - 00:43:53:49
Unknown
I don't think it's, I don't think it's exactly what the people want. Like I said, I think we want human, human stuff in music. I mean, it's always that's where it came from. That's what it's always been, I think. Yeah. My music is it, has waned in popularity, but it's also then becomes more novel and, and people who I think come back will come back to it or can't come back, rediscover it or, or a retrained.

00:43:53:57 - 00:44:13:26
Unknown
Yeah, right. I like the idea of like, yeah, training the audience because it is, it is. It's a question about listening. Yeah. I think the active listening. Active listening and, you know, I've done a lot of school programs in which, I've talked to kids about, you know, the back in the day when we had no amplification, what did you have to do?

00:44:13:40 - 00:44:35:03
Unknown
Yeah, you had to listen. You hear? Our forebears probably were better listeners than we were, right? Definitely. Yeah. You know, you had to be. I mean, they had, you know, I mean, to to hear something, you know, what? A big vacuum space or something or a person talking or a speech been given. It was an event. Yeah, it was an event.

00:44:35:03 - 00:44:51:28
Unknown
And it was also, you know, you you were actively participating in the the act of listening and like it was, you know, like you said, you know, I could be performing and somebody could be talking. And, you know, I'm like, you know, yeah, I appreciate I get it, you know, I get that, well, I'm guilty of it too.

00:44:51:28 - 00:45:23:30
Unknown
You know, I, I put on headphones and do chores, you know, and music is just more of an accompaniment than it is. You know, me sitting down, folks like, I, I do try it every once in a while to remind myself, oh, let me just sit here and do nothing else and just listen, you know, you know. Well, that's, that's a that's that's a good way to kind of wind down this program because, what you, what you have created with your, your music is something that's, a veritable playground of listening, just so, so much fun.

00:45:23:30 - 00:45:51:20
Unknown
So much fun. And I love the personality that comes out in these pieces. And, we have put, during this, podcast, rehearsals, websites, which, you can check out where you're performing, but also where you can get his music. And don't forget to purchase his music, go on Spotify and all that and, support this guy.

00:45:51:24 - 00:46:16:06
Unknown
Place out. And, what would you like to leave the listener slash viewer with? Probably probably another magazine? Like I said, I'm I'm proud of it. Those are the hardest things for me is like a are they playing anywhere around or in the next. So probably come out in January, June. Right. Yeah. They're, we're not booked for anything else until coming up here.

00:46:16:08 - 00:46:35:51
Unknown
So early spring. You've seen their website come up will be on final. It'll be but definitely, definitely, hunt down this guy and, and, you know, don't show up at his house. But if it is, show up for lessons, show up for the gigs. Yeah. You know, so. But what do you got? Let's see this one here.

00:46:35:51 - 00:47:06:59
Unknown
The Emperor. Let's turn it up. Yeah. The emperor. Yeah. That, is this one for. Look at this from a capacitor. Yeah. Okay. The, where'd you get that name? What does what does it mean? Look apart. Muka that means it means, crazy cow or man cow. And that. Yeah, that was, so this group and this group was established, I think, in 2004 by a gentleman named Mark messing, who was not in the group anymore, but it was his brainchild.

00:47:06:59 - 00:47:27:51
Unknown
And so, so, yeah, there's a lot of members in this group who've been in from the beginning. The OGs. But it's, it's been a, a one of those, like, point like pondering like him keeps evolving over time. It's like one of the guys in play with those two guys played with. Oh, okay. That's, Dave Smith and, just animals.

00:47:27:51 - 00:47:43:12
Unknown
But, I think just to play with them, I could be wrong. Name dropping. Yeah. I'm sorry. I really it's been established in the city, and then we have their their tentacles out everywhere, but, Scientist. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, they're they're they're, I'm super proud to be in the group, and I'm proud probably they're doing my music.

00:47:43:12 - 00:48:04:00
Unknown
So, So. Yeah. And capers. Proud of you, too. Are you too? Yeah. Okay. This comes in to say. Okay. So we'll listen to the Emperor, and I want to thank you again for being on this, on the podcast. And, everybody, please check out Hershel Edwards music, check out his, bands that he's writing for.

00:48:04:00 - 00:48:15:01
Unknown
What a fantastic, prolific writer. And just I hope I hope you've been inspired. With this independent musician. So thank you. Give us the emperor of his.

00:48:15:01 - 00:49:08:08
Unknown
We.

00:49:08:12 - 00:49:21:12
Unknown
Need.

00:49:21:16 - 00:49:34:05
Unknown
A minute. Okay. You.

00:49:34:10 - 00:49:38:27
Unknown
May.

00:49:38:32 - 00:50:12:52
Unknown
Say you may.

00:50:12:56 - 00:50:29:42
Unknown
Need to bring.

00:50:29:46 - 00:50:52:36
Unknown
Me. You.

00:50:52:41 - 00:50:58:18
Unknown
Have.

00:50:58:22 - 00:51:48:24
Unknown
To.

00:51:48:29 - 00:51:58:14
Unknown
Go! Hey!

00:51:58:19 - 00:52:03:14
Unknown
Come and.

00:52:03:19 - 00:52:48:42
Unknown
Carry.

00:52:48:47 - 00:53:01:41
Unknown
Us. Up.

00:53:01:46 - 00:53:13:31
Unknown
You.

00:53:14:46 - 00:53:37:44
Unknown
And then we have the Emperor with a great symphonic ending. With that. Yeah. That's great. Thank you. Thank you once again, Herschel Edwards and, check him out. Check out his music, check out his bands. And thank you so much for being with us on Strung Out and everybody. We'll see you next time. Bye bye. Take. Congratulations there.

00:53:37:49 - 00:53:40:33
Unknown
Thanks so much. Just totally inspiring.

00:53:40:33 - 00:53:58:16
Unknown
Thank you for listening. For more information about this show or a transcript, visit Martin mccormack.com while there. Sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung Out.

00:53:58:21 - 00:54:11:08
Unknown
It's so strong. Spain, we feel, makes no sense at all. The swan song wasn't part of the deal, was no good. All giving no choice. Giving us a.