Strung Out Episode 266: THIS IS ME, I SWEAR-JUSTIN GILLAM

Every so often, one comes across a person who is "the real thing" living an authentic life, with little regard to fame, fortune, family or even food for that matter.  Enter Justin Gillam, a person who lives for his passion, creating music that is raw, honest and blunt.  There is no clever wording, no symbolism hidden behind a word.  Gillam writes from his heart, from his experience of loves won and lost, alcohol, being in a band and being a loner.  He represents the far outlier of Americana music, the real musical frontiersman, creating songs with no expectation other than to get the song off his chest.  A refreshing lyricist and no-frills deliveryman of sound on a duct-taped guitar, Gillam is the real deal.  www.justingillam.com. 

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:14:44
Unknown
Welcome to Strung Out, the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist. Your host is the artist, writer and musician Martin Lawrence McCormack. Now here's Marty.

00:00:14:44 - 00:00:44:37
Unknown
Welcome to the latest of Strung Out. And today I have Justin Gillam with me. Singer songwriter, originally from the Rogers Park area. Still in the hood. Sort spirit. And, so genuine Chicagoland, write songs in the Americana vein. And, we're going to get right to it because he has a lot of stuff to, to, to occurs, to talk to us about about not only his, his life, but his band, the mud flaps.

00:00:44:37 - 00:01:06:14
Unknown
One of your projects. Really great. Got a lot of stuff going on. So, why don't we start in with the song and I just want to say you get the best guitar award. Oh, for looking like it's been been in in battle where all instruments should be good. Guys don't mollycoddle your instruments use of their tool.

00:01:06:19 - 00:01:35:18
Unknown
So, but here we go. All right. Welcome. Thanks. And, bakers, the Wonder Dog is here, as always. To make sure that the show is a success. And, what song would you like to play for us? I think, we'll start with a song called No Happy Endings. No Happy endings. All right, Justin Gill, let's give it a go.

00:01:35:41 - 00:01:40:11
Unknown
Oh.

00:01:43:16 - 00:02:26:17
Unknown
Never mind. Saint Louis, took your back to Saint Paul. Was there? She learned she wasn't as big as she had once thought. Oh, she met a man named Tucker down at the local bar. Now, instead of home, she just goes out, ride in his car. Or you could dig a ditch around the castle, shoot an arrow with a bow, wrap the ring around her finger.

00:02:26:22 - 00:02:31:42
Unknown
There's one thing that I know.

00:02:31:47 - 00:02:56:06
Unknown
There is no happy ending. There is no happy ending. There is no happy ending to this fairy tale called love.

00:02:56:11 - 00:03:12:35
Unknown
High school sweethearts. Turned husband and wife. Lovers. Brother who could make them feel just right.

00:03:12:40 - 00:03:56:04
Unknown
Ten years down the road. That love that seem to fade. Love was once a happy home. Was now just a big old mess. They made. So they had a baby boy to fill up. What they lacked. But soon that boy became a man. And their problems were right back. Then you could dig a ditch around the castle, shoot an arrow with a bow wrapped bearing around her finger.

00:03:56:09 - 00:04:01:32
Unknown
There's one thing that I know.

00:04:01:36 - 00:04:25:43
Unknown
There is no happy ending. There is no happy ending. There is no happy ending to this fairy tale called love. I.

00:04:25:48 - 00:05:09:35
Unknown
50 years of marriage gone by. Like the buzz of a fly. Just the thought of separation during the terror to my right. So imagine how she felt when she found him on the floor. His eyes were wide. His breath had stopped and his heart beat no more. If you dig a ditch round the castle. Shoot an arrow with a bow wrapped around her finger.

00:05:09:40 - 00:05:15:03
Unknown
There's one thing that I know.

00:05:15:07 - 00:05:36:12
Unknown
There is no happy ending. There's no happy ending. There is oh, happy ending to this fairy tale. Come.

00:05:36:17 - 00:05:43:35
Unknown
Oh.

00:05:44:49 - 00:06:18:56
Unknown
All right. Wow. That that's, That's a heavy song. I love it. 50 years, like the busting of a fly. Isn't that true? And, for anybody that, I mean, I'm in my 60s now, so, you start thinking about all that kind of stuff that you just outlined in a song, like, you know, the whole the fairy tale called love, which is love is kind of a fairy tale in a way for a lot of people.

00:06:19:01 - 00:07:06:50
Unknown
And there is no happy ending. Yeah, right. I mean, the, the I mean, it's kind of tough, you know. Is that something that, you know, did that come from, an experience of yours or how did you get to that song? You know, that that song like, it's definitely I think, just, without trying to not sound cheesy, but really just sort of, it's like you said, just something like when you get older, you start sort of thinking about, you know, the fact that, a lot of what.

00:07:06:55 - 00:07:49:07
Unknown
Maybe you you thought you had been looking for doesn't even exist. Yeah. So I like what the fuck now, right, right. And I commend you on that because, you know, I mean, I only say there are, you know, there are unhappy songs, but there are also real songs, that tell the unvarnished truth about life and, that's that's definitely what that song is all about is that, you know, it's it's, I think everybody the that's the thing, everybody talks, doesn't want to talk about what they know.

00:07:49:12 - 00:08:18:25
Unknown
Right? You know, I think maybe our, our parents, our grandparents, maybe, you know, kind of knew that, you know, that world kind of existed because that world, in a lot of ways did exist where, you know, getting married and everything was also just economic mix. And if you knew that family down the road, it wasn't like, you know, wasn't this kind of, you know, beautiful imagery that was pumped out as by a lot of our commercial interests?

00:08:18:34 - 00:08:42:17
Unknown
Yeah. You know, did you did you grow up here in Rogers Park or did you, you know, tell me, a little bit about your background and, yeah, I, so I did not grow up here. I grew up in Kansas and Georgia. Well, where in Kansas? Wichita. Oh, yeah. One of my favorite towns. Yeah, yeah, it's a great club called the artichoke there.

00:08:42:29 - 00:09:11:39
Unknown
Okay. Yeah. Familiar with Kirby's beer story. Okay, but not the artichoke. And, And we're in Georgia that way. Augusta. Ruston. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, what was that about? I mean, how did you go from, the flatlands. So that was just, my dad moving for jobs. A couple different jobs. He knew somebody in, in, my parents were both from Wichita.

00:09:11:44 - 00:09:33:47
Unknown
Okay, so that's. Those were roots were there, but then he just knew a guy in Georgia. That. Right? Got him a job, and there he went. Off we go. Off you go. Yeah. And, you know, before I go any further, that's, Is that what kind of guitar is that? Is it Martin Deacon? Yeah, yeah. And,

00:09:34:11 - 00:10:07:50
Unknown
What's with the take on it? Tell us what happened to your late, like, 20 years ago. This was a this happened at a show. Just drunken idiocy. Really. But, I got repaired. And that's been great. But just this year, I took it out and kind of realized there's a huge crack here.

00:10:07:50 - 00:10:36:12
Unknown
We're interested. Yeah. You know, and then this part here now is, like, totally, I mean, there's like, an inch wide gap there that I had to, like, squeeze together and then just tape it, just kind of keep it all, moving. But it's it's just like the cracks are starting to spread at all throughout it. So the bass guitar, I mean, I play acoustic bass, so I, I know I haven't gotten to the tape part yet, but, I don't recommend it.

00:10:36:39 - 00:10:59:13
Unknown
You know, it's kind of a good look, though. It reminds me a little bit of, you know, Woody Guthrie. You know, the machine kills fascists. You know, he he always kind of treated his guitar as, like, tools, and I'm not sure, you know, so many people who are into esthetics and, I think the problem now has become it will cease to function as a tool soon.

00:11:00:41 - 00:11:27:29
Unknown
Which then. Yeah, you gotta you gotta get gotta get it to a good luthier. Which is always something, well, listen, how did you get into music then? Because, you know, here you are, you know, in Augusta, Georgia. Was there a guitar in your family prior to, you know, you growing up, was there somebody doing music or.

00:11:27:34 - 00:11:54:47
Unknown
I. No one in my family, played music. My dad could play a little classical piano, but, like, I didn't even know that until I was an adult. Wow. Because there were. There was no music in my house at all. No record spinning? No. Nothing like that. Not really. Once in a while, my dad would put on a record, but, that was rare.

00:11:54:52 - 00:12:18:27
Unknown
Okay. To come home and hear, like, music playing. Yeah. Was it, was it a happy childhood or was a tough childhood? I mean, it was it wasn't necessarily happy. I don't know. Did you have siblings? I had a sister. I have an older sister. Okay. She's seven years older than me, but we also be getting more.

00:12:18:27 - 00:12:41:28
Unknown
I don't I don't speak to anyone in my family. Wow. Okay. And not out of, like, nothing happened. Yeah, we just kind of fell out of. Yeah, yeah. So maybe, like, that's interesting to hear. Like, you know, every once in a blue moon, there would be music, cause music is kind of a great indicator of of, peace and harmony, so to speak, you know?

00:12:42:06 - 00:13:02:30
Unknown
And. Yeah, for sure, you know. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things you pass on, you say, oh, listen to this. When I was a kid, I geeked out on this. Here comes the mailman. We're going to be real quiet keepers, right? Here comes the mail person. Let's. Oh, whoa oh, whoa whoa. Okay. Thank you.

00:13:02:30 - 00:13:32:56
Unknown
Okay, well, maybe I'll put that in the edit. Wow. That's real. Well, well. All right. Well, well, well, well, I guess I was kind of a good girl. You did good. All right, back to where you were. So did you, I mean, that's, you know, so that's a good indicator. You you, you end up, moving to Chicago when,

00:13:33:01 - 00:14:03:42
Unknown
So, I went to high school in Illinois. Okay. Like junior high school in Illinois. Dixon. Oh, and then, great town. Yeah. Sort of slowly moved this way, to college, at North Central College. Yeah. Okay. And I moved to Chicago, originally to go to graduate school at Loyola. Right. Philosophy and, dropped out and never left here.

00:14:03:42 - 00:14:28:01
Unknown
Spark. Yeah. And Loyola has that way of doing that, too. I went to Loyola. Even if, you know, I don't. Why, but Rogers Park, seems to be a good magnet for artists. Yeah. For sure. It's a good that they have a chance to come in. They all, it's it's a weird neighborhood, you know, and the fact that artists are around, it's affordable, very diverse.

00:14:29:00 - 00:14:45:37
Unknown
Where was it in your life, then? If you're in this family where it's it's kind of, a musical desert, so to speak. Where did you discover that you had this gift?

00:14:45:42 - 00:15:14:31
Unknown
So when I, when when I moved to Chicago, I came here with a good friend of mine, James Bible. Okay. We lived together over on one or green paper first, I guess. But anyway, He is a musician, and, all through college played guitar. Okay. But I, you know, so when I, when we moved to Chicago, we lived together.

00:15:14:31 - 00:15:43:39
Unknown
His brother, who lives in San Francisco, used to mail him these cassette tapes that were like mix tapes. Cool. Yeah. All right. You're dating yourself and, Yeah. And, well, I think the cassette tapes were even, passed by at the time he was sending. Okay, so. But I love it. Yeah. But I had never heard that kind of music before.

00:15:43:39 - 00:16:10:50
Unknown
It was like, he'd have, like, old Willie Nelson songs and, like Gram Parsons and, traditional stuff. Just shit I've never heard before. Right. And I just like the I like the storytelling. Yeah. Nature of it. Right. So then I, originally got a guitar then, so I was 23 when I got it.

00:16:10:59 - 00:16:33:21
Unknown
Yeah. First guitar. That was just because I wanted to try to write songs, right? I didn't really want to play guitar, necessarily. I just wanted to be able to write songs. How cool is that, though? The like, these guys inspired you so much? Yeah, yeah. I mean, not only the old Masters, but the fact that, Weibel and his brother pass on this stuff.

00:16:34:24 - 00:16:57:09
Unknown
You know, for me, when I was in college, it was, my, my, roommate was really into all the the all the old time stuff. Yeah. And Michael Nesmith, when he went, you know, did his solo stuff and and if it wasn't for those guys, you know, I don't know if I would have even really known what Americana music was, right, you know?

00:16:57:12 - 00:17:36:23
Unknown
Right. And, you know, it's such a big distinction from Americana, artists from especially now country. Right. You know, but to go to inspired to the point to go out and get a guitar. So where did you get your first acts? The first guitar I got, some guy gave to me all night. And it was, tech meaning, that to this day, I have problems on my wrist because of that guitar.

00:17:36:28 - 00:18:01:24
Unknown
Was a neck too wide or just. It was that actually. Yeah, but I didn't know. Right? You know, I didn't know, so I just played it for, like, you thought this is a couple years. And wow, they finally James was like this. This is how this should be going. What again? You know, I didn't know. Yeah. How do you know I never I never picked up his guitar.

00:18:01:24 - 00:18:21:59
Unknown
I just had my guitar. And, how interesting did he, he never, like, would say to you, hey, man, you know, pick up. You should try my guitar, see what? Or did he pick up your guitar one day and just go? I think that's what he said. What the hell? It was just like. Like a this is more like, you know, a bridge span than it is a left to the mark.

00:18:22:01 - 00:18:44:24
Unknown
Yeah. That's true. And holy cow, Holy cow. Wow. And so did that. Did the tech immediately go by the wayside? Yeah, around the wall somewhere. Friend of mine still hasn't really gave it to him. And did he get the next question? I was, I at least formed. You were the biggest. Amen. I'm giving you a gift, but,

00:18:44:39 - 00:19:15:34
Unknown
Yeah. Then I got a sequel. Okay. That was a it was a nice guitar. Cool. And then on that to a friend who essentially destroyed it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, that's always hard. When you give something out to somebody and. Yeah, he comes back and like, Brian Fitzgerald, I had a, a Yamaha that I, I, he borrowed for a while, and then I took it back because he was digging a hole through it.

00:19:15:40 - 00:19:47:13
Unknown
Yeah, that's exactly what this dude did to my guitar. Yeah. And and, you know, that's for a company, right? You know, he, he's dug his way through, I think, four guitars. But, looks great, but it's not good for your guitar. In the long. Yeah, just ask Willie Nelson. But, these artists that you were listening to then on these mixtapes to they, did you pursue was there any one particular artist that stood out to you?

00:19:47:15 - 00:20:06:30
Unknown
Was there somebody there or a group of artists in such a way that you're like, I want to I want to find out more about them, because, I mean, you're kind of like an open book at this point. You got the. Yeah, you got the tape. You just been given these tantalizing bits. Yeah, yeah. So what happened?

00:20:06:40 - 00:20:33:17
Unknown
I really just kind of listened to those because, You know, at the time, I didn't really explore it beyond, you know, it was before the internet and shit. It's not right, you know? Right. I could just look it up, and I just didn't. I didn't pursue it. I just would just listen to those tapes over and over again.

00:20:33:24 - 00:21:11:03
Unknown
Yeah. So you, you know, which is. Which is cool because, in its own right, you're like, being educated by these guys. If you didn't know their backstory, they just movie like the songs. And was it at that point then that you were kind of like, you know, starting to write songs or, you know, were you just like, you know, I like this this is kind of a hobby or, you know, at what point did you kind of realize there's something more to it than me just getting these tapes?

00:21:11:08 - 00:21:40:20
Unknown
You know, my roommate's brother sending, you know, and I have this, you know, guitar that I'm hacking away on, you know, where did it open up for you? Where you were like, hey, you know, I need to perform. I think that was that kind of evolved more out of, necessity and that, like, I was learning to play guitar and James,

00:21:40:25 - 00:22:10:43
Unknown
Was playing with another friend of ours, and, at some point, I don't remember exactly what happened, but they needed, like, a rhythm guitar player. And I was like, they would rehearse at our apartment. Okay. So I knew the songs. Cool. You know? And so that's how that performance started. And then once I started writing songs, I was kind of motivated to perform, with the band.

00:22:10:43 - 00:22:33:37
Unknown
And then eventually, what was the name of that band? That band was named Outlaw Family Band. Outlaw family band. Yeah. And are they still performing now, though? So you ended up being, you know, here you go, the lone wolf, all with your guitar and work and songs off the stage. The guy that did the tapes, the guy that he had, the nice guitar.

00:22:33:44 - 00:22:59:46
Unknown
He starts his band. Right. And you're the one left standing. It's kind of interesting. He's still. He plays, around here too. Okay. Is he like, a Americana musician? Yeah. Okay. He's a fantastic songwriter. Cool. So good musician. So, so is, you know, are you still in touch with him? Quite a bit. And, so how do you commiserate with him?

00:22:59:47 - 00:23:28:28
Unknown
And then when it comes to, you know, your craft? Well, I mean, we still play shows together occasionally. There was just we was probably a few months ago now, but, up on Clark Street, there's that bar rambles now. Yeah, that's starting to do something like, you know, small mom duo. Trio, kind of, you know, from the from until we played a show there together.

00:23:28:28 - 00:23:49:49
Unknown
So you want to get together and trade songs once in a while and then we haven't played. Right. Well that's good. I mean, I'm happy to hear that you weren't the last one standing. Then hear that? He he that in some ways that kind of tells you something, right? Yeah. Just about watch what you're doing and you're doing it with some of those.

00:23:49:53 - 00:24:16:27
Unknown
Well, the banjo player that was in that band went on to form House travelers. Oh, okay. So some pretty good pedigree there. Yeah. Yeah, those guys were I mean, that's very cool. So. So you were it's interesting how they kind of put you guys all into this thing and then, you know, where did it go from there? You have to, you know that band kind of went its separate ways.

00:24:16:27 - 00:24:47:40
Unknown
What what happened with you? With me personally, that's like, even before that had happened, I had started playing, Barb, Bill and I formed the mud flaps. Okay. And then, like, so I just sort of put all my energy and, into that, family. Okay. Yeah. And, was this a full time gig for you, or were you, like, I was waiting tables and bartending and shit the whole time?

00:24:47:40 - 00:25:16:25
Unknown
Yeah. Cool. Did you, you know, describe that, like, you know, was it the kind of thing where you were telling yourself, yeah, I'm going to do this to feed my my habit of being, an American musician? Or were you like, you know, did you have a sense of direction, considering, like, the trajectory of my career as a musician is going to go here?

00:25:16:30 - 00:25:48:05
Unknown
Well, yeah. It was really more just, Living day by day and, you know, there was no plan. There was no, I mean, there still was no plan, but, yeah, just there was really no long term thought going into it at that time. Yeah. Me. Yeah. I just drank and played and played guitar and write songs and try to write songs.

00:25:48:05 - 00:26:09:42
Unknown
Well, yeah. In some ways that's, that's, honest. Yeah, that's what it was. But yeah, you know, I mean, it's, you know, you weren't starry eyed. In other words, you are just the drinking at this point. It's kind of what it still is. There is there is no plan. Yeah, well, just not have a plan is a plan in a way, right?

00:26:09:46 - 00:26:40:22
Unknown
I mean, do you see yourself, you know, how many albums have you done now? And, you know, and like, let's talk about, you know, you had, you catastrophe, which, came out during the pandemic and recorded it during the pandemic. And it's just released, it sounds like, however. Yeah, years ago, that was to finally, like, not as long ago as we think.

00:26:40:22 - 00:27:03:42
Unknown
I mean, that was, you know, you know, you were still following recordings or from one weekend on that record and then, it's just taken till now to get it mixed and mastered right. It's all good. Project should be there. You know, sometimes I think, it kind of goes away for a while, right? Then comes creeping back in to the backyard, you know, and that way you can listen to it with fresh air.

00:27:03:42 - 00:27:27:13
Unknown
That's true, that's true. But we'll we'll take care of that. You know, when when just, you know, gives you all the magic that is necessary for writing a killer song. Sure. The next podcast I'm finding is really interesting because you're you're really a journeyman, you know, Americana singer songwriter. Are you happy in Chicago?

00:27:27:59 - 00:27:49:34
Unknown
Not particularly. I don't know if that has anything to do with Chicago or not. I think I'm still trying to figure that out. Well, just to find, you know, do you have an audience for your music? Do we do you have people that, listen to your songs and give you feedback? Some some, you know, not a great deal.

00:27:53:15 - 00:28:19:02
Unknown
You know, for me, mainly it's just in terms of being in Chicago. I just battle like, the desire to go somewhere else. And my mom. Do you think that's from, you know, you as a kid, moving to a couple of different cities. And I never really planned on staying here. It's just fucking Rogers Park. Just kind of doesn't take that, doesn't it?

00:28:19:07 - 00:28:37:22
Unknown
Yeah. Well. Well, yeah, you know, in a good way. But also to the point where, you know, now I'm in this weird place in my life where, I can kind of do whatever I want to do right now in terms of where I live. But, so I've got some free, so I'm trying to figure that out.

00:28:37:22 - 00:29:03:48
Unknown
Yeah. Then the next few months, actually. So you got some problems got to happen. Yeah. I mean, something usually does. Right. Will help you like it or not, but, tell me this, you know, when you now have this, first of all, let's, let's just touch on the album and then I'm going to ask you to play another song, but then we'll do have more after, on the back side of that.

00:29:03:53 - 00:29:29:00
Unknown
But what a weird title. Ego catastrophe. Are you, is there a socio political statement on the European Union, or is it, what it what are we talking about? It's actually, it's a word that was coined by tokens. Well, but it just means, like, you know, when something good comes from something bad, and that's never heard.

00:29:29:01 - 00:29:51:38
Unknown
It was all recorded during Covid, which obviously, well, in a lot of ways sucked. So. But for me, actually, it was like one of the best years ever. Yeah. Well, it's funny how the pandemic really enabled us as artists to kind of I mean, you had no excuse for it. Yeah. It was like, here's everything you ever wanted, right?

00:29:51:45 - 00:30:09:05
Unknown
And you're getting a you're getting a support check, you know, and you know, let's, let's let's be real. I mean, you know, you could sit on your, your ass and just say, oh, okay, that's great. Or you could do something with it. Yeah. Yeah. I just got motivated. So to use it, let's do it I yeah. Wasted a lot of time.

00:30:09:10 - 00:30:32:02
Unknown
Well, it's always, it's, good wasting of time, right? I mean, if it's in the pursuit of the craft, then there's nothing better than wasting time. But EU catastrophe. Is that one worth you? Catastrophe? Is that how you pronounce it? Yeah. And this is a new one, and I, And that is a Lord of the rings stuff.

00:30:32:02 - 00:30:54:09
Unknown
Is that something? Right? It is. Yeah. So. Yeah. Gosh. But my friend James will be happy that I, I dropped some talking knowledge. Right. I, you know, I mean, I, I love, I mean, I read all the Lord of the rings and, never read the Summer League, but, but, but that's cool. So I like, something good out of something bad.

00:30:54:09 - 00:31:28:35
Unknown
And the fact is, an American artist using Vulcan, you know, know your name of the world. They're living in Rogers Park. So this is good. I want you to think of another song to give us. Okay. And, you you you're striking me as kind of like a Tolkien like character. Somebody that, they were looking at that, Frodo would have met on his journeys, you know, or gone with him because, you know, there's a sense of, there's a sense of, envy.

00:31:28:37 - 00:31:50:16
Unknown
You know, you're you're very practical about your life, like that, you know, like, coming in here throwing fairy dust all over the place. You're, like, saying, here's what I do, and this is how I do it. And, what you see is what you get. So far, so good, man. So what's your next song? Boy?

00:31:50:20 - 00:31:54:00
Unknown
We'll try a song called It's Not Me, I guess.

00:32:12:05 - 00:32:28:07
Unknown
I know you been, about the time you've spent with me and wondering if it's worth it to get close enough to see.

00:32:28:12 - 00:32:52:13
Unknown
What hides behind these eyes? So there's a man, here inside. But it's not me. I swear it's not me. I swear.

00:32:52:18 - 00:33:16:44
Unknown
It seems every step, Taken as more and more weight to bear. And any progress that I'm making in the end just seems to fail. There's a man, here inside.

00:33:16:49 - 00:33:24:49
Unknown
And. So. Sorry. Oh, is he bound?

00:33:24:54 - 00:33:33:49
Unknown
It's not me, I swear it's not me. I swear.

00:33:33:54 - 00:33:58:29
Unknown
That's the, Is, the where. Who goes to the soul? But at the heart of these eyes is a big black hole. So rest after suffering and peace after pain.

00:33:58:34 - 00:34:08:24
Unknown
Until, God's arms, we meet again. The.

00:34:10:46 - 00:34:19:06
Unknown
Oh.

00:34:19:11 - 00:34:38:46
Unknown
My little apologies don't do justice. And my apologies punish me for any pain this may cause. You made it all flow back to me.

00:34:38:50 - 00:35:04:59
Unknown
Please believe I tried. Oh. You peacefully I tried, I. And this is me. I swear this is me I swear I'm.

00:35:05:36 - 00:35:29:26
Unknown
He's, The windows to the soul. The at the heart of these eyes is a big black hole. So rest after suffering and peace after pain.

00:35:29:31 - 00:35:37:03
Unknown
To the, God's arms, we meet again.

00:35:37:08 - 00:35:51:25
Unknown
This is me. I swear this is me. I swear I'm. This is me. I swear.

00:35:54:08 - 00:36:17:01
Unknown
All right, we're going to be right back. Talking to Justin him. Which, by the way, is probably one of the best Americana names I've ever heard. So I did. It's a good thing you're not a jazz artist. I me just kill him. I can see that in Western script. You know what? We're going to be right back.

00:36:17:01 - 00:36:20:06
Unknown
Yeah, of course you are. Strung out.

00:36:20:06 - 00:36:57:32
Unknown
Hello subscribers, and welcome to Inside Views of Mardi Fine Art, where people are talking about their collected works by artist Martin Al McCormick. Like this planar watercolor titled River Bower, Donegal, Ireland, recently purchased by Cindy Roby. Her trip to Ireland was such a gift. Even more so is the forever reminder of the trip we had to. Marty's painting was a Bower Donegal.

00:36:57:37 - 00:37:26:06
Unknown
It is a beautiful rendition of a path we actually had the pleasure of walking. Marty masterfully captured the light through the trees, the gentle breeze and the brilliance of the soft colored leaves. It truly embodies the peace and tranquility of Ireland. We all remember it always, along with the friendships made and the memories that this unforgettable painting inspires.

00:37:26:11 - 00:37:44:04
Unknown
Thank you for supporting Marty Fine Art, Cindy. Additional originals and prints and merchandise of all of Marty's art can be purchased at Martin mccormick.com.

00:37:44:04 - 00:38:05:09
Unknown
capers is coming up. Just to give you a little consolation. That is a beautiful song. First of all, thanks, man. That the honesty of it is just, I found myself feeling, a lot of different emotions on it because, it's so confessional, so confessional.

00:38:05:09 - 00:38:29:41
Unknown
And the ability of being able to, to say to somebody, you know, and then to, to put it in that sense of in God's loving arms, you know, until, you know, we meet again. So obviously this is this is a pretty heavy breakup. Is this, autobiographical or is this where you married, where you had love? What happened?

00:38:29:46 - 00:39:01:24
Unknown
Never married. Okay. Part of the interesting thing about that song is the part of the chorus. Was taken from, child's, tombstone in this graveyard in Ireland. Get out of here. Oh, cool. Tell us about it. So we, The mudflats went to Ireland in, like, 2008. For, like, I don't remember ten days.

00:39:01:24 - 00:39:26:19
Unknown
I think. But when we were in the, in the north, Barb and I went for a walk through this graveyard, and we found came across this this. I think he was, like, six years old. Tombstone. And it just said, that it said rest after suffering peace after pain. Until in God's arms, we meet again.

00:39:26:21 - 00:39:50:23
Unknown
Wow. And, I stole it. Yeah, from a kids group. Well, from. But I was so I was in the middle of writing that that song, and I didn't really have a chorus for it. I'm like, you were. There it is. You were. You were, communicated with. Yeah. I mean, it was pretty wild that that is, that's pretty,

00:39:50:28 - 00:40:14:16
Unknown
All right. I hope everybody's enjoying this, because I sure am. It was. Wow. But that's so neat. Yeah, but first of all, it's neat that you were sensitive enough to be walking in a graveyard along with Barbara and, second of all, so cool that you saw those lyrics and you're like. They weren't lyrics. They were. Somebody poured that out for this.

00:40:14:16 - 00:40:38:06
Unknown
I did, and and you, you you didn't steal it. You've just elevated this kid to, Yeah, well, unbeknownst maybe or known, you know, you bringing this person to a world, were you were you touring with the monk flaps then? Was that the idea of Ireland was, to go around and, yeah, get some gigs. And we played.

00:40:38:11 - 00:41:03:29
Unknown
I think we played like, ten shows on the ten days. Fantastic. It was good. It was a good experience. I go over to Ireland all the time. Like, my family's from County Mayo, but, but, so I, I love, I love to hear when American bands go over to Ireland, especially Americana bands. Yeah. What did you feel the reception was like?

00:41:03:34 - 00:41:30:40
Unknown
It was great. Yeah, it was great. Yeah. You know, especially in, probably our most enjoyable experience was when we were in Northern Ireland. Yeah. We were in this little town called Mull of, middle of nowhere. Nowhere. And, but, you know, when something happens there, like, the whole town goes. Yeah, that's all everyone.

00:41:30:45 - 00:41:59:22
Unknown
Yeah, all the families, everything. And, Yeah, this particular, place had converted what was once a pig barn into a real concert hall. Wonderful. And it was. Yeah, it was, but the reception was good all over Ireland. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, the Irish are good. He had, intuiting emotion and, Yeah, I think so.

00:41:59:24 - 00:42:22:54
Unknown
And also, you know, basically we're bringing back music that they brought to us, right? You know, you know, the Scottish, Irish and the Irish, combos, you know, but it's it's so different. Yeah. You know, that they find it intriguing because they know it's them. They know it's it's like, you know, when you meet a long lost relative.

00:42:23:09 - 00:42:48:41
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. I think musically speaking, they're like, guys feel so. And, did you find, did you have a chance to listen to any Americana artists that were Irish? Were there any around, or was that that kind of tour we ended up, not really. We didn't play most of the shows we played. We're just us.

00:42:48:46 - 00:43:27:40
Unknown
Nice. But we did experience a lot of, like, Irish sessions and, more interestingly, to me at least, was in those like, traditional sessions, there would often be like offshoot sections that would form. And one of those would be like more singer songwriter writing, writing kind of stuff. Right. And so I would eventually like make my way to one of those and mostly just said, listen, yeah, these guys were just beautiful voices.

00:43:27:40 - 00:43:51:57
Unknown
Yeah. And just the Irish, so talented, the way they approach music and, you know, you might get a little bit in some of the rural sections of, of this country. Where do you just describe that community aspect of. Right. Everybody in there, you know, they come as a unit. This is not like happening. It's not like, you know, oh, we're going to go to a bar, right?

00:43:52:00 - 00:44:12:20
Unknown
You got the bartender and you got, you know, drinks all around the place. And then there's people like a certain age bracket and, you know, 90% are there to, you know, hook up or drink. And the other 10% come in to see the adult. These people come in and it's like, go on in church, you know. Yeah. They just they take in.

00:44:12:24 - 00:44:33:34
Unknown
It's such a, community aspect. I, I think I, I see well, you probably don't want to hang in Rogers Park. You want to move to Ireland. That'd be nice. Actually, I wouldn't I could see a fit. And there are some great people of God. I mean, Steve Earle, you know, and some of those people have moved over and spent a chunk of time in Ireland.

00:44:33:36 - 00:45:13:40
Unknown
And I think it's for that reason. I'm glad to see they realize that it's the thing about the it's the people, you know, there's something, special about the people there for sure. Yeah. And they have a they have a love of storytelling that they keep very prominent. Right. You know, and I think, you know, even with their, their big stars, what's interesting about that, the Irish way of dealing with, like, fame and celebrity is, it's very much hush hush.

00:45:13:47 - 00:45:39:27
Unknown
It's it's not like it would be embarrassing to defer to somebody as a star. They want to be kind of. They want to be the ordinary person. Right. Well, sitting at the pub, it's in the ordinary person is the person that holds a lot more interest. In the eyes, of the Irish and, you know, they want to know who are you and what what are you.

00:45:39:32 - 00:46:02:47
Unknown
Well, what are you about? Right? Right. Did you find that in mudflats? Did you find yourself having to explain what a mud flap was to these people or. No, it's not really. I. I don't know that they knew I or you just never came up. Right. And one funny thing, about that trip to Ireland, I'll share a real quick.

00:46:02:47 - 00:46:32:59
Unknown
Sure. So, Barb, you know, we go in to Dublin and, start there and go all through up to the north. And finally we're like at the end of the tour. And Barb, the whole time has been drinking Paddy's whiskey. Okay. With ice. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So but we get to this place and, Mulligan and she goes up and orders.

00:46:33:03 - 00:47:09:54
Unknown
Paddy's on the rocks and the the hook and bartender, he's, like, 17 years old, you know, starts laughing. And Barb is like, what are you laughing? Why are you making fun of me? You know, and, Barb was like, comes across as the most innocent. Yeah. You know, but, the guy is like, well, you ordered a Paddy's, which is a guy on the rocks with your testicles, you know,

00:47:09:59 - 00:47:32:24
Unknown
But as I say, we've been all through to the point where she's ordered this drink numerous times, and no one has ever said, well, I think it's whoever until the, the Irish. Well, yeah, they don't, they, the rocks is just only recently kind of creeping into their, their lexicon because really, normally you don't even drink whiskey on the rocks.

00:47:32:24 - 00:47:52:02
Unknown
That's such an American thing. Yeah. You know, in fact, I have a friend. She, she, she, when she comes to Ireland with us, I mean, she always starts at one level of whiskey, and then she'll go up and up and up and up and up. And so finally, she was getting, like, quality wise.

00:47:52:02 - 00:48:15:21
Unknown
So the last drink on her tour go the other way, I think. Right. You know, but the top shelf, you know, the top shelf. What's this guy pours it for her and, and, you know, he's standing there looking at her and, you know, takes the order and she's. And he says he wouldn't be wanting that on the rocks, would you just.

00:48:15:31 - 00:48:36:25
Unknown
No, no, I drink it neat. And he said, oh, then she says, you know, he because the American, you know, thing about, about you having it, having anything chilled like Guinness is supposed to be room temperature and all that sort of thing. What a great experience he had, though, going over to Ireland. I mean, that's not something that everybody gets to, to talk about.

00:48:36:25 - 00:49:02:32
Unknown
Yeah. No. Yeah, yeah. In the fact that what a great proving ground for the band, you know. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about, the mud flaps and, how long have you guys been working? And obviously, while that was 2008 that you like. Yeah, we've been playing since, I don't know, like 23 years or something like that.

00:49:02:36 - 00:49:34:34
Unknown
Yeah. Wonderful. Is that right. Yeah. Sure. It, you know some of those years with the, with the band like the mud flaps. How do you feel, do you feel like there's an Americana, network in Chicago or do you feel like, you know, how is it for music? Like, you know, if I was to say to you, you know, hey, Justin, name for me, the the club that you feel is the most Americana kind of club in Chicago.

00:49:34:39 - 00:49:59:37
Unknown
Is there such a thing? Does it exist, or is it more like a singer songwriter realm that you, you go into? I don't know, honestly. Like if there is such a, like, community or whatever, right. I've not been informed of it. Right? Or invited. Right. I mean, is it a word? I mean, you know, Bloodshot Records, but.

00:49:59:37 - 00:50:19:47
Unknown
Yeah, but I mean, like, you know, they had they had their kind of thing they do like the hideout, you know, was kind of a thing. I don't remember that being, but that that kind of kind of went away. Yeah. You know, it's just I, as I say, I'm not really plugged in to, Yeah, any of that stuff anymore, so.

00:50:19:52 - 00:50:43:23
Unknown
Yeah. Well, I don't even know if there is a thing to plug into. I guess I'm really, that's one of the things that I find very intriguing is there's there's, a lot of different singer songwriters, you know, and I know that there's Gerald's does a lot of that stuff, but it for for me at least, it's like that to me is essentially a whole nother world.

00:50:43:33 - 00:51:08:19
Unknown
Right. Because it's I can't get to it. Right. And. Well, I mean, is that just logistically speaking or just breaking, you know, just like getting to the physical stage, right? Is pain in the ass. It everything with cars. Well, everything is a pain in the ass from Rogers Park, right? Yeah, that is their motto as far as, like, driving, like, oh, God, this is like the world's.

00:51:08:23 - 00:51:33:09
Unknown
This neighborhood is insulated from the rest of Chicago. You really can't. You can't get up to the hinterlands without, like, 45 minutes of going through all the neighborhoods. Exactly. Well, that's interesting. So, you know, but I know they have, like, like, I know I'm. A bunch of, like, singer songwriter kind of shows happen. They're Fitzgerald studies now.

00:51:33:14 - 00:51:54:48
Unknown
You know, there's there's nothing of, of its kind and I mean, murders maybe, you know, but it's been a long time since I've gone to murders. And, and I don't know, like, you know, space in Evanston, but I don't think that they're really plugged into more of, I think they're bringing in, like, out of town, you know, bigger.

00:51:54:52 - 00:52:21:08
Unknown
Yeah. Bigger. So how do you cope with it? I mean, what do you what do you, you know, how do the mud flaps, gig? I mean, at this point, we have, like, you know, some bars that, like, around here that we have, that are just kind of always in the circuit. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. So we we play it over at the lighthouse quite a bit.

00:52:21:13 - 00:52:48:28
Unknown
They have, some pretty, some pretty good music go through there. You know, you used to have, like, the red line and, that's going on, of course, that's gone on for years now, but, you know, we play for 20 years. We played every Monday at the Celtic Knot in Evanston. Oh, yeah. So we just started playing at their new location in West Evanston.

00:52:48:28 - 00:53:10:37
Unknown
Yeah, they're up on central, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've never walked into a weird part of the city. Dude, it's like 9:00 ghost town. No, I made it. And, I mean, I, I, I was, I was, at, the coffee house a couple doors down. Yeah. And, because a friend of mine was showing art there.

00:53:10:42 - 00:53:29:55
Unknown
Okay. Yeah. And, you know, but I was looking at the counter fan. I was like, I should go in there, and I never I never went in. Let's. So it's a good place. I was, are good friends of mine. Nice. There's a super people and, but this is good. The Guinness is good. But isn't it interesting?

00:53:29:56 - 00:53:51:58
Unknown
I'm Americana music show. And the place that's giving you, you know, a place to to to shine your stuff is the Irish thing. Yeah. So it's like full circle in a way. Right. Which again, I think is, part of, the DNA. Maybe, you know, Gillum, is that an Irish name? Is might be right. I think it's more English.

00:53:51:58 - 00:54:32:45
Unknown
Is it English? I think so, but you got to have the Celt in you. I mean, that's, you know, you know, without a doubt. Yeah. You know, there's, I'm really enjoying this talk because there's so many things that you're going into, you know, but, think about, your song for the, the last song for this bit of the interview or, where, you know, with, with the mud flaps and that you're kind of you kind of have your places where people can come and see you at these places that church cover where they kind of things that, you know, you, you, you know, they can come in and, you

00:54:32:45 - 00:54:57:39
Unknown
know, just throw something into the church or it's more, it's more of that, you know, we'd always prefer a show to be free, right? And then there's usually, like, a tip bucket. Now, why is it a is that a philosophical choice? Kind of a, you know, I think it's, I think it's philosophical and, business.

00:54:57:43 - 00:55:24:58
Unknown
I think it's more for us, at least. It's in everyone's best interest if there's no cover charge. Right. Because, the bar is going to make more money that way. True. Because, you know, for us, to charge, like, grand bucks of the door or something. So we'll definitely keep people from coming. Yeah, it's it's a difficult time.

00:55:24:58 - 00:55:53:42
Unknown
Everybody's broke. I'd rather people could come hear the music and buy a couple beers than give us money at the door. And we exist in, in a world where, you know, the at least the younger generations, they get everything basically free write music, speak right. Five Spotify, whatever. You know, so it's it's hard. It's hard to to be an independent musician these days.

00:55:53:50 - 00:56:20:53
Unknown
I feel, you know, to live off your craft, you have to you own. You have to, really think, you know, many different kind of revenue streams. So, what what do you do these days to help you continue along as an American musician right now? All I, I mean, I try to I try to write you.

00:56:20:53 - 00:56:49:49
Unknown
So you're writing, as I say, like, gigs will come up. Are you working any kind of day job or anything like that, or are you more just into. So I just, last month was this or in March? In January, I got my. I just finished getting my, professional educator's license for high school. Congratulations on this.

00:56:49:54 - 00:57:16:15
Unknown
Wonderful. And, right now I'm just. Right. I'm writing a master's grade thesis. And then that's done. And may, And then I'm unemployed, and I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing. Well, and if he has a teaching shingle, I have a feeling you're going to be a hot commodity, because, I mean, I'm not. I'm always looking for teachers, you know?

00:57:16:20 - 00:58:04:02
Unknown
Well, Yeah. We'll see. It's. You know, I don't know that the. Having gone through, like, the student teaching aspect of the thing, it's hard to it's hard to think about doing that. For an extended amount of time. Because it just eats up so much of your fucking time. It does. And, you know, it's not like I'm walking in the door from teaching all day and can't wait to sit down and, you know, so you, you know, kind of enjoying the freedom of, of, you know, being able to survive.

00:58:04:06 - 00:58:31:10
Unknown
Exactly. You know, with your, your craft. I'm having a I'm, I'm having a, pretty cool little chunk of time the last like. Yeah, a year or two where I think it's great. Able to get by doing doing this. School thing and then, I don't know what to do next. Yeah, but you live like you are a talking character.

00:58:31:14 - 00:58:56:34
Unknown
Really? Yeah. How do you get your, like, taking on this journey? For sure. You know, that that was the only thing they're missing in those books is like, you know somebody. Right? And here's something they wrote, you know, but, you know, it's, I think that in a lot of ways that's, just being true to the muse, I think because it's, it's difficult.

00:58:56:39 - 00:59:26:16
Unknown
Oh. Allows me, yeah, I just yeah, it's a it's a it's an, a chunk of time. I probably don't know that I'll have again. Right. Anytime soon. You know, I'm going to have to switch. I'm gonna have to figure something out for a year, but, well, for now, it's great. I think it's great. I think, every every month that you can get away without having to, you know, work.

00:59:26:21 - 00:59:46:42
Unknown
Yeah, a day job. So, you know, you do it as a when is, when. Yeah. No. And really, in the artist's world, that's, that's how you sometimes you have to just kind of have that mindset that. Yeah, you know, all the all the artists that eventually, you know, they might not live to see, you know, what is qualified to success.

00:59:46:42 - 01:00:21:03
Unknown
But what they did is they dedicated their lives to their craft, and they lived from day to day. It's a very genuine and, honest experience. I think, all through this, you're going to be seeing, how to get a hold of Justin through the mud flaps. You got a Facebook page. And, don't forget, we're going to have, the next podcast where we're going to dive into his song crafting, and he's going to dispenses wisdom to all of you folks.

01:00:21:08 - 01:00:47:47
Unknown
But I think there's a lot to learn here, from this interview. And, you know, just to go out on a limb before we have to play the last number for this interview. Where would you like to see yourself if you had, like, I know this is not you. You know how you you think, but, per se.

01:00:47:52 - 01:01:13:08
Unknown
But, like, what would you like to see if if you thought everything was kind of lining up the way it should, you get life. What would it be for you? I see right now I'm thinking about this because I have this time. Yeah. But if shit were ideal for me, it'd be like a part time teaching job.

01:01:13:13 - 01:01:43:17
Unknown
Teaching literature and writing and composition and and, because I do enjoy, I enjoy teaching. Yeah. And, the rest of the time of my own. Yeah. It's just really hard to find a part time teaching job, at least in kids. Yeah. But that would be, like, my ideal set up, you know? Yeah.

01:01:43:22 - 01:02:29:06
Unknown
Make enough money to kind of, you know, have somewhere to live? Essentially. Yeah. But, you know, it's it's for me, it's a balancing act of I want Max. I want to maximize the amount of time that I have to myself. Yeah, that's what it's all about for me. I totally honor that. You know? And, one thing that, we haven't touched on is that, Justin is also a visual artist, because abstract painting and I think, I think I'm going to have to get him in, so we can actually do, a similar kind of thing where we're going to talk about art and then, probably the second part

01:02:29:06 - 01:02:48:07
Unknown
of the. That would probably be you showing us how you do it. I haven't done that that much. So you might have to be my guinea pig. I might have to be the first one. Okay, well, Mr. Gillum, please play us. What do you got for the last number here? What do you call this one?

01:02:48:12 - 01:02:52:29
Unknown
Let's see. Let's do. Hey. Hey. So,

01:02:59:50 - 01:03:08:21
Unknown
And tell me that I'm wrong. That feels right.

01:03:08:25 - 01:03:23:02
Unknown
Punched in the face. I mean. Stab me with the knife. Party's over.

01:03:23:07 - 01:03:33:46
Unknown
Hey, aren't your boyfriend.

01:03:33:50 - 01:03:40:50
Unknown
And I go to the store, come back two days later.

01:03:40:55 - 01:03:55:47
Unknown
I get too drunk to tell you how I ruin your life. And you meet up with a friend and fuck his brains out.

01:03:55:51 - 01:04:10:07
Unknown
Hey, let's get in there. The crazy people keep you up to.

01:04:10:12 - 01:04:54:17
Unknown
Day. You know, they go crazy. You're looking. You. You put down the gasoline and the matches, and that's me. And you set fire to this natural.

01:04:54:22 - 01:05:01:32
Unknown
Yeah. Real band. Scream when I play guitar.

01:05:01:37 - 01:05:08:39
Unknown
Rip! Blow all my books. Seen one.

01:05:08:44 - 01:05:16:21
Unknown
The cop at the door. Please let me go.

01:05:16:26 - 01:05:23:14
Unknown
Baby, let's have some children.

01:05:23:19 - 01:05:31:02
Unknown
My crazy people need you both to.

01:05:31:07 - 01:05:38:03
Unknown
Hate all they gone crazy. You're losing you.

01:05:38:07 - 01:05:56:39
Unknown
Put down the gasoline and the matches. And that's me. And you set fire to this man. Threw up.

01:05:56:44 - 01:06:07:52
Unknown
I'm.

01:06:08:43 - 01:06:30:16
Unknown
Wow. He, He lit that one on fire, and you tell it like it is. I just love it. I think, you know, you have, you know, a great sense of, that Irish humor is really what it is. Yeah. You know that I'm. I'm hugging you, but I'm hitting you kind of thing. That's great.

01:06:30:21 - 01:06:51:51
Unknown
Guys, do stay around for the next, podcast interview when it comes out, after this one, because I think you're going to really enjoy it. We're going to have, just some talking about the songwriting, and I'm curious to hear how he goes about it. I hope you enjoyed this podcast. And until next time, we will see you.

01:06:51:56 - 01:06:54:57
Unknown
Struggle. Bye bye.

01:06:55:51 - 01:07:13:34
Unknown
Thank you for listening. For more information about this show or a transcript, visit Martin mccormack.com while there. Sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung Out.

01:07:13:39 - 01:07:26:26
Unknown
It's so strong. Spain, we feel, makes no sense at all. The swan song wasn't part of the deal, was no good. All giving no choice. Giving us a.