Episode 269: “Every Song’s a Little Different." HOW JAMES WEIGEL SERVES THE MUSE

James Weigel is a journeyman musician.  He devotes much of his time working at the local music shop, Flatts and Sharpe, teaching students on a variety of instruments.  He then also spends a great deal of time performing for various venues throughout Chicago.  These venues range from the local watering hole to more listening friendly rooms.  Those lucky enough to be able to listen to Weigel's songs will be struck by the thorough work he puts into each word he chooses for a lyrical phrase.  Not trying to be clever, but done with a sincere outlook on his path in life and his own observations of the world he lives in.  Inspired by other great songwriters, like Willie Nelson and Woody Guthrie, Weigel's songs have that beautiful weight of words in every line.  Those words are straightforward and simple, but in total create a song that can pack an emotional and thought-provoking punch.  Like many independent singer-songwriters, Weigel has almost an aversion to the notion of pursuing fame and notoriety.  He instead seeks out playing for those willing to listen to his words and songcraft.  In this interview, Weigel touches on how he goes about creating songs and how his melodies can be first or last depending on the situation.  Great insight and advice from someone who is naturally a performer and, lucky enough for students in Chicago, naturally a teacher. 
His websites are: 
https://www.ensembleschools.com/flatts-and-sharpe/staff/james-weigel/
https://www.facebook.com/JamesWeigelUnderTheFloorboardsMusic/

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:14:44
Unknown
Welcome to Strung Out, the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist. Your host is the artist, writer and musician Martin Lawrence McCormack. Now here's Marty.

00:00:14:44 - 00:00:35:14
Unknown
back to our second interview with James Weigel and James, downstate. Or as we like to say, from central Illinois and know Metamora, which is probably one of the cooler name and tough name towns in the United States. I don't think there is another Metamora. Please tell me there is.

00:00:35:15 - 00:00:56:03
Unknown
And I actually think there is. I looked it up and apparently it was, named after a, fictional, Native American chief. This one was it was a play that traveled around the country, and then all these towns started springing up called Metamora all over the place. You know, you'd probably enjoy meeting. Do you ever meet Chris DeLillo?

00:00:56:14 - 00:01:23:25
Unknown
I have an uncle. He's one of these guys. He's out of Quincy. Or no call. And, but he he's all into Illinois history. Oh, cool. But, like, Pekin was named after Peking. Yeah. I mean, yeah, all this, Illinois is a cool, guys. And people should be checking out more of Illinois. But the purpose of our podcast here is to talk about the creative process that James has.

00:01:23:25 - 00:01:48:45
Unknown
And, if you tuned in to the last podcast, that was called. Well, where were you then? Yeah. My last day on death row is my last day on death row. Is the the proper title? Yeah. Which is great. What a powerful, cool song. But I'm going to ask you to jump right in, as we do on this and, play us another one.

00:01:48:50 - 00:02:10:04
Unknown
That's a hard act to follow. That that last final. All right, well, let me let me think here, again, I'm doing a bunch of songs that I hardly ever play. It's awesome. I think it's great. I mean, that's, you know, but let's vent. So enjoy. And. Yeah, I'll do one. This one's called gasoline. All right.

00:02:30:04 - 00:03:03:11
Unknown
The sun is surely rising I can feel it through the trees. The smoke is high and flying. Riding on the breeze. It seems the world is burning. Consumed by a machine. The ruler of the earth is gasoline.

00:03:03:16 - 00:03:54:30
Unknown
The taste is in the water. The smell is in the air. The lust for its power is taking its fair share to the people that it poisons. Become so obscene. The ruler of the earth is gasoline.

00:03:54:35 - 00:04:42:49
Unknown
A junkie needs is fed. It's a copper. Needs is to the drinker. One dry. Quit if he don't drink a spell. We are a world of addicts strung out on benzene. The ruler of the earth is gasoline for the sun comes up, goes down, then round around again. Every life span is so warm. Brief is that of men.

00:04:42:54 - 00:05:17:10
Unknown
And when our night starts falling. Sky will turn green. The ruler of the earth is gasoline.

00:05:17:28 - 00:05:43:57
Unknown
Great. All right. What, what a relevant song right now, Yeah, but you said that as of this recording, with the streets are moves and all that stuff. Yeah. Well, we haven't gotten away from that, have we? We're like, we're still caught in this vicious thing of, of gasoline and, and the social impact of it.

00:05:44:02 - 00:06:16:31
Unknown
And it is an addiction. It's a horrible addiction that we're. Yeah. And I'll, again, I love the way you take words. And you, you place them in a place that they wouldn't necessary really be like the sky is same, same going in. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but the imagery is fantastic. And and very cool. And, probably the first song that somebody has actually had the words strung out and it.

00:06:16:31 - 00:06:45:07
Unknown
So, which is the name of the show. Oh. That's funny. Yeah. I wrote it for you. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks, man. And the ruler of the earth is gasoline is brought to you by, no. I want to ask you, you know, let's pick apart that song, because that's a song that everybody can appreciate. You know, my last day on death row or whatever.

00:06:45:12 - 00:07:10:39
Unknown
That's kind of almost like a story song in some ways. You know, but, but this the ruler of the Earth is gasoline. First of all, how do you go about getting that idea? What what is the motive of inspiration for you, with that particular song or just in general in general? But let's use that as an example.

00:07:10:44 - 00:07:42:14
Unknown
I know you know, some people get different inspirations from different things, but, you know, Tommy, just using that as an example, how did you write that? Well, you know, I think I might have written that back when that BP oil spill happened. Some in the Gulf. Yeah. Went on for nine days and just had, Rose, you know, you know, it's I've always loved the outdoors and, for a time when I was real small, I lived in Montana.

00:07:42:19 - 00:08:00:53
Unknown
I love hiking, I love camping, so we got a lot in common. Yeah. See, this is weird. We're in Montana. We're, about 45 minutes south of Missoula. A little town called Corvallis. I know well, yeah. I my grandmother was born in Lothrop, Montana. Oh, wow. And so I have a brother in Missoula. Yeah, just in Great Falls.

00:08:00:58 - 00:08:26:25
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. That's great country. Beautiful country. Wow. Wow. So that's, So. But go ahead. But don't you know. But the stuff that happens, I just can't stop thinking about it because. Right. You know, we're running. We're running this place that we call home, you know, and and I don't understand why. Well, maybe we're not at all ruining it.

00:08:26:30 - 00:08:58:49
Unknown
And maybe that's. I think that's the to some degree, you know? Yes, we use, we use gasoline, but, the the damage that's done, right? I mean, who's the pusher man and. Oh, right, right, right. You know, I mean, that's, and that's that's interesting with this, so you, the BP oil spill, all those years ago, and yet you're touching on something that, you know, we haven't gotten away from.

00:08:58:54 - 00:09:23:51
Unknown
And 100 years from now, somebody's going to hear that song and they'll unfortunately be able to identify it. Right, right. They're not going to be saying, well what's gasoline. They're going to know, oh that thing that, you know, ruined our plan. Oh right. Right. Yeah. I mean, so heavy topic, a difficult topic to some degree in, because you're not necessarily preaching at people.

00:09:24:06 - 00:09:44:57
Unknown
That's, what you're doing is it's almost like a lament. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Again, you you have a very traditional, way of of bringing out stuff. And what I mean by that is just the film, the Woody Guthrie kind of, here it is. There's it's just, laying the truth in front of you.

00:09:45:05 - 00:10:05:15
Unknown
Yeah. I think there's real danger. It it when you when you start writing things about, these kinds of things and when you said preaching at people and, and that's something I think you want to really avoid. You know, you don't want to tell people what to think, right? And you know, this, I mean, not just with songs, it just in general, but.

00:10:05:20 - 00:10:25:55
Unknown
Yeah, who am I this who am I to tell you? I don't know anything, but strangely enough, we're in an era now where, you know, you go on Instagram and there's a bunch of people tell you what you think you're doing, and you look at them and I say, well, who are you? And what's your justification? Right. You know, but, you're not preaching though, and which is smart.

00:10:26:04 - 00:10:49:31
Unknown
You're, you're laying it out. And, so when you start writing a song like that, what's your first inclination? Is it to, you know, grab a pad and pen or are you the kind of person that, will carry it around in their head? Tell us about that. Usually that, you know, every song has been a little different for me.

00:10:49:36 - 00:11:17:28
Unknown
Usually the ones that I like the best or, or think that I did well are the ones where melody and a chord progression and maybe of of, like a line of lyrics have all kind of come at once. So. Wow, cool. I've written songs where I've written the lyrics first and put it to music and yeah, I've written songs where I wrote music but didn't have the words in my head yet and got it and kind of just sort of really worked at it.

00:11:17:28 - 00:11:56:50
Unknown
And, and those are always my least favorite ones. The only ones that I really love just like suddenly came out, like came, came to me like, it's like the stuff is just floating in the air and you're just lucky enough to grab on to it. Well, that's, that's, you know, people have talked about that, you know, where they're out in the field and they, you know, working and, song catcher, one of those things I remember and I'm going to butcher this paraphrasing, but they literally, running into the house to write down and catch a song, you know, they're out working on this and, you know, that's a holy grail, isn't it, to have,

00:11:56:55 - 00:12:26:08
Unknown
the, lyrics, the meaning. Yeah. And the music. Yeah. And you being such a, a multi disciplined musician playing different instruments and such, I would imagine. Is that a challenge for you when you. This kind of arrives? Is that the kind of thing where you're like, I'm hearing this, a dobro or I'm hearing this band, right, right.

00:12:26:10 - 00:12:45:14
Unknown
Or, you know, how does it work for you? I, you know, I, to to to me that the instrument doesn't matter. It's it's really, you know, the chord progression, the chord progression. And so I, I've written, quite a few songs on piano. I play a lot of piano, but, I, you know, mess around on it.

00:12:45:19 - 00:13:05:39
Unknown
Right. Do you have a piano in your home in. I just got rid of my piano because I just stayed up too much space. I just got a piano, and it's picking up. Now, my daughter's playing. There is, That's my rule. Top desk used to be there. So. Long story. Right. But go ahead.

00:13:05:43 - 00:13:31:25
Unknown
So, you know, you're noodling on with you're trying different instruments. Be a little more specific for me. You know, let's let's just say you do get the the where everything's coming at once. Something has to go down first. Yeah, yeah, I think I think I would probably gravitate to guitar first. Guitar. You know, dobro is great, but as we were talking about earlier, it's not really a great rhythm instrument.

00:13:31:35 - 00:13:53:05
Unknown
No, but. And you can't really you know, it's tuned to a major chord. Right. And you're playing with a slide which is basically one finger. So. Right, you know, can you get a chord like this. No, no, no you can't can get this, you know, can you get this. You can actually get this one. Yeah. This those are beautiful jazzy almost kind of chords I love them.

00:13:53:10 - 00:14:15:58
Unknown
Because they're they're that like there's a lot of emotion kind of tied to those songs. But you have to have an instrument though that you write chords okay. You know and pianos, great guitars, great banjo. You can get a lot of chords but it, you know, it doesn't have any low end on it. I'm assuming most of, the people that are tuning in to this, would be playing guitar, though not everybody.

00:14:15:58 - 00:14:38:21
Unknown
I think piano is a great instrument. In fact, I, I consider that probably the gateway instrument that people should really try to get under their belt. No, I'm saying this having me studied piano and then not pursuing it, you know, so I am not the poster child for that. However, regret, you know, I should have stayed with it.

00:14:38:25 - 00:15:06:10
Unknown
But guitar is really the the universal instrument. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, it is. It's small, it's portable, it's easy to play. Are you sitting around, you know, putting then the lyrics down or are you like one of these people that is on the school? I'm going to hit, at work on this for 20 minutes, and if it's in my head tomorrow, it's something.

00:15:06:10 - 00:15:28:10
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah, I think I'm somebody that, I need it. I really need to work it out. This because, I won't say as soon as possible, but, when I have a good idea, I feel like I just need to to to work out all the kinks, You know, and so I just pace and pace and pace and just obsessively work it out.

00:15:28:16 - 00:15:51:03
Unknown
And so I feel like it's it's it's finished. Where do you do most of your writing? Where do you pace everywhere. And. Okay, walking to work. Walking to work. And so it's yeah, you know, I used to work in, in foodservice before, before I was teaching and actually I wrote a lot of songs, you know, because just by nature, you're already pacing around, right?

00:15:51:08 - 00:16:09:12
Unknown
Did you find that working at the place kind of opened your that side of your. Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Because you're, you're doing this and it's, it's much more but but also just, you know, meeting, you know, random strangers and hearing. Yeah. Stories and you know, I know a lot of people from the neighborhood because I worked at a coffee shop down the street.

00:16:09:25 - 00:16:36:01
Unknown
Okay. You know, a long time ago, and, you know, you just you get a lot of that's, you know, stories or or the characters all. Absolutely. You know, it's common cup. Where you down or where is, on we went along with it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. All right. So they're there, you know, that's let's say you're there and you get this character, are you, are you like, excuse me for a second?

00:16:36:06 - 00:16:54:56
Unknown
You know, pull it out of that paper. Right. Well, I'm, I'm trying to capture from you. Like, how do you, how do you how do you get it? I have a I still have a drawer full of about, you know, 1200 post-it notes from those days. Yeah. Everybody has a graveyard, I think. Yeah. All right, I like that.

00:16:55:11 - 00:17:14:20
Unknown
And maybe I like to think of it as, like, a junkyard, you know? So, you know. Yeah. And it's all good value, so don't get me wrong about that. But you're like, well, let me go out and let me go and see if I can get that water pump. Right. You know what I mean?

00:17:14:25 - 00:17:51:01
Unknown
Oh. I have a, you know, that kind of thing. I mean, I think that's what they have in common with songwriters is just that they they kind of keep they keep that there for the potential of something. That something might be usable, might be usable. So it's interesting to hear you go a drawer full. Would it be the kind of thing you would turn over to somebody and say, hey, you know, you know, I don't know, you know, I, I feel like just the act of, of trying to write, and, you know, and working things out, whether they come to fruition or not or not.

00:17:51:06 - 00:18:10:32
Unknown
I think that gets you in the place where you can, really write something else that might. Okay. Really great. You know, I'd probably write maybe about as many as ten songs for every one that I'm that I feel as a keeper. Okay, I, I've read a lot, you know, I read a lot and a lot of it is not usable.

00:18:10:33 - 00:18:30:37
Unknown
Do you set a time aside for this then, or at, you know, some, some artists are like, well, yeah. From, you know, Tuesdays at 10 a.m., you know, are you that kind of person? Are you more like in that organized enough for that. Okay. And are you are you of the paper and pen group then or are you.

00:18:30:37 - 00:18:57:10
Unknown
Well, on my phone. Paper and pen and paper and pencil. Wait, why is that? I mean, it's it's it's really funny. It's tangible. Tangible. Yeah. But I, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm also old enough to pre-date the phones anyway. Yeah. Guess I'm not a technology person. Right. Okay. But even it's interesting even, interviewing people that are of the, the, the cell phone era.

00:18:57:15 - 00:19:19:53
Unknown
I love the fact that they go to pen and paper. Yeah, yeah. There's something about it. I, I don't know what I think it's because it's more personal. You know, your own screed in handwriting and that sort of thing. And so, I think there's some value in it and, but I, I love to hear when how people do it.

00:19:19:58 - 00:19:38:07
Unknown
I love to hear that you have a drawer full of post-it notes. I mean, for me it's pads of paper. Sure. Yeah, yeah. And all that I have and whether they're all becomes right and like God only knows. Right, right. I mean it's the of receipts. Yeah. So let's, let's I want you to play another song.

00:19:38:07 - 00:20:06:18
Unknown
But before we do that, you touched on the think that for every ten songs I've got a keeper and, how do you get to that one song? I don't know, you know, I feel like that one song is just has something that's magical about it that, that it's hard to define. Right? The perfect coalescing of melody and chord and and whatever the idea is of that particular song.

00:20:06:23 - 00:20:28:12
Unknown
Okay. You know, and we were talking earlier about, for me, I'm not trying to write a product or a hit song or anything. I'm, I don't care about that so much. But inherently a song has to have something that's I don't know if catches the right word, but, you know, it's got to sound good, right? You know?

00:20:28:13 - 00:20:53:14
Unknown
And it's got to be it's to have some quality that's like, you know, an earworm or something. I well, there's the term the hook, right. Yeah. You know that a lot of songwriters use them that. But is it, you know, the hook for you is that, play was or is that a lyric that it could be.

00:20:53:14 - 00:21:11:13
Unknown
It could be either or, you know, you know, there's the writing of the song, but then there's the arranging of the song, and, and, you know, I, I remember reading about Neil Young, but think of this way, he, he write the song, but then he, he'd have to write a riff to that's like maybe the intro riff or something interesting.

00:21:11:18 - 00:21:31:16
Unknown
So and so that to him that was part of the working out of the song is like, write the riff part two. Right? And so many of his songs has that little, you know, melodic. Yeah. Yeah, I think that comes in that just, you know, drives the song, along. So that that's the first time I heard that that I think that's cool.

00:21:31:21 - 00:21:55:59
Unknown
Well, give us an example of where, you know, you hear of, a hook that, you know, really stood out for you if you can. Oh, one of my songs. Yeah. One of yours. And, like a hook, for. Or it could be just me on the spot. Well, let's let's let's do this. Let's have a little fun.

00:21:55:59 - 00:22:12:04
Unknown
What's your next song? All right. What's it called before you play it? I just want, I guess I'll do. I do, something. I call it Angel. Angel. Okay. And what's the hook?

00:22:12:08 - 00:22:40:20
Unknown
Does it have a hook? That's the question. I'm trying to think of it as well. Okay. So. Okay, there's a, Well, let's see if we can find one. Okay. And, was, was this song, one of those ones that came in lyrics and music, or did you have to try them? You know, this one actually is every now and then I, I kind of do my own version of a song that I admire from someone else.

00:22:40:22 - 00:23:09:41
Unknown
Sure. And this is my version of a Willie Nelson song. Great. Willie, Willie has a song called, Angel flying Too close to the ground. One of the great songs that you wrote. Absolutely. Yeah. And and this is my take on that theme. Okay. Well that's okay. And we know Angel flying too close to the ground. I mean, you know, the hook is that that line, you know, but let's listen to James Waggles.

00:23:09:46 - 00:23:12:08
Unknown
Play Angel. His song.

00:23:20:26 - 00:23:28:33
Unknown
I used to boogie these definitive moments. How many?

00:23:28:38 - 00:23:36:11
Unknown
I thought it was fate that dropped you from his long time.

00:23:36:16 - 00:23:44:00
Unknown
Your feathers were torn. Your wingtips were critically bleeding.

00:23:44:05 - 00:23:51:57
Unknown
But you were still breathing. There was no stars in your eyes.

00:23:52:02 - 00:23:59:32
Unknown
So many times I told myself. You never leave me.

00:23:59:37 - 00:24:07:05
Unknown
Now I gave you my strength. When you were too broken to try.

00:24:07:10 - 00:24:31:16
Unknown
But your spirit grew stronger. Your wingtips grew healthy and gleaming. No, you can't cage the restless to anxious and desperate to fly. My angels gone. My angels gone.

00:24:31:21 - 00:24:38:08
Unknown
Careful you don't fly too close to the sun.

00:24:38:13 - 00:25:18:12
Unknown
If you find yourself in trouble. When your wings come undone. No, I will be there to help you anymore. So don't come round here. Knocking at my door.

00:25:25:09 - 00:25:31:59
Unknown
On.

00:25:32:04 - 00:25:40:01
Unknown
It's too hard to stand up. When you're knocked down and inward. We see the.

00:25:40:06 - 00:26:21:02
Unknown
The harder it gets. It seems like the harder I try. I guess there's no looking back. When you packed up. Been already leaving? No, I don't need a looking glass. To wipe all the mud from my eyes. My angels gone and my angels gone. Go. Careful, don't fly too close to the sun. For this you find yourself in trouble.

00:26:21:02 - 00:26:40:43
Unknown
And your wings have come undone. No, I won't be there to help you anymore. So don't come round here. Knocking at my door.

00:26:40:59 - 00:26:53:49
Unknown
Wow! That's great. Okay, take a little break. And, on the flip side, we're going to dive in to, Angel. All right. You know, when we got James Whale here, strung out.

00:26:53:49 - 00:27:22:55
Unknown
Hello subscribers, and welcome to Inside Views of Marathi Fine Art, where people are talking about their collected works by artist Martin Alma Cormac. Hey y'all! To see introducing our newest piece to our collection, my wife and I, we've been collecting art now for a little bit over ten years. Discovered Martin MacCormack. Love the work he's done.

00:27:22:55 - 00:27:53:34
Unknown
This is our second piece from Martin, but we really like about this are the colors. It really matches the spring with walls and everything. Just got it back from the framers. Beautiful piece. This is an original watercolor. And the reason why we really try to focus on originals now is with all the eye stuff that's around here, if you got something that you can document, that is an original piece of art, it should hold its value or even increase its value over the a few years.

00:27:53:34 - 00:28:17:40
Unknown
So we're looking at this as an investment piece as well. So anyway, it's a beautiful piece. I'll bring the camera in a little bit to give you a closer zoomed in look, but, yeah, we think it's we think it's awesome. Additional originals and prints and merchandise of all of Marty's art can be purchased at Martin mccormick.com.

00:28:17:45 - 00:28:24:03
Unknown
Thanks for watching.

00:28:24:03 - 00:28:47:42
Unknown
Hey. Want to show your support of Martin's artist endeavors? Buy Me a Coffee is an online site that makes supporting Marty easy. In just a few tabs, you can make a payment of any amount and no account is needed. You can also decide to become an ongoing supporter. Go to Martin mccormack.com and click on the words support. Mark.

00:28:47:47 - 00:28:55:47
Unknown
Let's help Martin keep it all caffeinated.

00:28:55:47 - 00:29:29:31
Unknown
Wow. Okay. I, I think that's, that's just a brilliant, brilliant. Taking, like, Willie Nelson song. Angel flying too close to the ground. Is this kind of like, know, I'm there and I patch you up and you get the sense that, you know, it's there's there's, you know, not so much a love thing that we have hung around, you know, you know, around a while, hung around.

00:29:29:31 - 00:29:52:32
Unknown
Well, kept your spirits up in your feet. Yeah, yeah. No, that's not for this case. You know, you're writing from the perspective of, where we've all been, where you take, you know, somebody comes into your life that is, in need of love. Right? And and then, takes off. Yeah. Stabs you in the back, stabs in the back.

00:29:52:32 - 00:30:13:09
Unknown
And it's like, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, I love that. So. And then, you know, the when you wrote this and the, the hook is my angel Scott. Yeah. I mean that's, which is great you know. And what kind of angel is this angel when you're really, you know it's beautiful. The wings are cleaning and everything.

00:30:13:09 - 00:30:47:20
Unknown
But yet here you are saying, you know that that whole part, that there's even the rhyme scheme is gone. Don't come knocking at my door. Right, right. Yeah, yeah, I love that. Yeah. Because that's, it's, it's just like the heart just of reality kind of, you know, in some ways, you know, from the perspective of the writer, you're also singing to yourself, you're admonishing yourself for the fact that you should let yourself into this relationship.

00:30:47:24 - 00:31:11:43
Unknown
Do you when you're working on a song like that and you get to the point of trying to deliver the, discordant has the word that comes to me the just the, the feeling of, the, the of anger. It's not so much anger, but almost, you know, you would just taste or you've been used.

00:31:11:48 - 00:31:40:04
Unknown
You know, did you think to yourself, well, James, I'm going to put this in, you know, all these, minor notes. You know, at the end there or or was it just something that kind of naturally flowed out of you? Well, you know, there's there's an aspect of, you know, it's it's that old quote. I don't remember who said it, but, you know, I sing the blues to get rid of them, you know, it's it's, cathartic to a certain degree.

00:31:40:09 - 00:32:18:06
Unknown
Especially if you if you're, you know, basing something like that off personal experience. And, you know, I think we have all been there. And it, you know, so is, is putting, putting anger into words is for me it's, it's like then it's therapeutic to a certain degree. Yeah. It's and it's resonance. I think in some ways, your song is much more authentic than what Willie Nelson wrote.

00:32:18:11 - 00:32:44:29
Unknown
Yeah. I always got a sense again, from when Willie Nelson wrote it, that there was this distance that he kept in the relationship, you know, he he's cautious. Right? Let me, you know, leave me if you need to. Right, right, right. You know, in in the case of your song, let the Angel, you know, came came back, you mean came to,

00:32:44:34 - 00:33:09:26
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. Patched. Patched her up and bam, I don't know. I don't know what. Yeah. So that, that is a, a nice accomplishment. It's also really cool that that the angel flying too close to the ground was an inspiration for it. But nowhere near a knock off of it. Right. No, I'm not trying new people you know and but inspired.

00:33:09:26 - 00:33:30:45
Unknown
Yeah. Which I think is awesome. And you know I mean Willie Nelson was the king of inspiration and you would hear other stuff and, and you know, use it to, to launch his own song. I saw a funny video of, you know, they do farming. Yeah. And, what's that guy's name? 90s guy that.

00:33:30:54 - 00:33:54:36
Unknown
Oh, John Mellencamp or, later than that mascot. Okay, his tour bus dumped the, stuff on the Chicago River. Yes. We, you know, we should all know his name. Bump. Ants marching right? Oh. Oh. He's. I hope his careers and his band is what we are. Amnesia. But but I saw of this interview, though.

00:33:54:36 - 00:34:13:54
Unknown
He's he's one of his songs. It's like the first words, baby. Right. And he's a William. I have to say, I, I ripped off. I took it from crazy, you know, I still stole it for my hit song. And he's like, it's all right. Because when I was growing up, I heard another song that was like, oh, yes, or something.

00:34:13:55 - 00:34:54:47
Unknown
And, well, he's like, I ripped that after that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, that's what what comes to mind was, I heard an interview with, Willie Nelson where he talked about, the fact that, that in crazy he heard just those two notes about. But, but you know, here, you here, you take this idea, I like how you just kind of turn it on its ear and this idea of, you know, that the reality, the reality and that's something that's, you know, even though, like, you know, the song you write about, the my last day on death row, you know, those

00:34:54:47 - 00:35:20:01
Unknown
those songs are, story songs, but there's a sense of reality to them. And, and, you know, so how how do you, how do you write a song that, packs reality? Well, I think you have to be truthful when you're writing, John Mayer, there's a lot. The guy that, we're talking about, Dave Matthews, Dave Matthews.

00:35:20:06 - 00:35:46:08
Unknown
Thank you. Okay. Thank you. She's brought to you by Private Jesus. But, but go ahead. You know, I, I it earlier I said something about there's too much drivel in the world, you know. Yeah. And I think a lot of people just are, I don't know, they're not after truth when they write, it's it's like, you know, I guess so much fluff.

00:35:46:12 - 00:36:25:53
Unknown
Yeah. No. And and to me, There's already a world full of, of of those kinds of songs and. Right. I think we can aspire to be better than that. Right? You know, Townes Van Zandt came along and changed the game. He he was a a true poet. In my opinion. Yeah. And, and if you can't aspire to be like that, you know, well, you know, what is it about him that you, that you found in his lyrics that would, would, illustrate, you know, the kind of, immediacy that I think.

00:36:25:53 - 00:36:55:57
Unknown
I can't I can't describe it any way other than, you know, he's laying out some sort of truth. That that's true in the way that, you know, a omnipotent narrator lays out truth, you know, and and it's true whether you agree with it or not, you know, or or or no matter what your feelings are about it, there's there's a a truth that exists as truth, you know, I don't know.

00:36:56:02 - 00:37:29:44
Unknown
And and what you take from a song is your own, you know, you know, I, I don't know how else to describe it, but something that, you know, it's it's not, an affectation or something, you know? Right. In working for that truth. And when you get to that point where, you know, you feel you, you have the gist of the stuff, how do you bring it home so that you can say to yourself, okay, that sounds dumb.

00:37:29:49 - 00:37:49:22
Unknown
Well. For me, you know, part of this whole truth is for first off, I try to avoid anything that's, you know, out and out, corny. Okay. Or cheesy, as you know, as a certain words, you avoid,

00:37:49:27 - 00:38:14:12
Unknown
Not words, you know, but I will say I like. I like, I like words that you don't typically hear in songs. Okay. Like, and words that have, jagged edges to them. Interesting. Or or multi syllable words said, that would otherwise be hard to fit into to a rhyme. Do you collect these words? Do kind of do do.

00:38:14:25 - 00:38:36:01
Unknown
I think it's I take it on a case by case basis. Okay. You know song, the song. You know, I've always thought that, that a good love song is maybe the hardest thing that you could ever try to write, because there's something inherently cheesy about, about the whole thing to begin with. And somehow, yeah, being able to do it without making it cheesy.

00:38:36:14 - 00:39:02:09
Unknown
Yes. Well it, I think any, any a good love song or a happy song or a happy song, I think they're the, it's the, they're the, the most challenging, you know, songs that you can. Yeah I agree with you. The cheese factor again you know especially looking through the prism of truth. I mean yeah it's it's it's really tough.

00:39:02:09 - 00:39:31:46
Unknown
I mean you have to go to kind of like you know the Beatles. Yeah. Go ahead and say they were the Masters and you know being able to dish up some songs that were so simple but and truthful and exuberant and catchy and catchy and everything in there like, that's hard to do. Yeah. I mean, you know, and McCartney, of course, was brought up on like, you know, the Masters of the American Songbook and stuff like that.

00:39:31:51 - 00:40:00:02
Unknown
Cole Porter and people like that. Where you can see it has a theatrical kind of thing, which makes sense. But man, it's really painful when you hear a song that's like, you know, just film a chase you. Yeah. And it's and, but on the same, same token it's, it's so, it's so dangerous though to have, you know, to stay in the pocket of, misery, so to speak.

00:40:00:07 - 00:40:32:49
Unknown
Yeah. Absolutely. Right. Yeah. I mean, yeah. And and is there a responsibility of for us as singer songwriters, in your opinion, to bring, a sense of joy to the world or, you know, does does joy have its place when bringing, truth to a song? And, so I'm laying that out just, because there is. Well, I won't even say why.

00:40:32:54 - 00:40:55:12
Unknown
Oh, what's your answer to that? I do think it's, it's. If you aspire to be a good songwriter, you you aspire to, be able to touch on all aspects of life and all perspectives. Okay. And in the songwriters that I do admire are able to do that. Townes Van Zandt wrote a lot of dark stuff, but he also wrote some great love songs.

00:40:55:19 - 00:41:33:14
Unknown
Right. And he's got some sort of more spiritual songs. John Prine, you know, Angel from Montgomery give the perspective of an old woman. And being able to touch on all aspects of life is, is really what's truly remarkable about the songwriters that I admire. And, and I do think if again if you aspire to be a good songwriter, you should try to, you know, to be able to do that, to touch on all aspects and all perspectives and not just pigeonhole, pigeonhole yourself into, you know, one little corner.

00:41:33:19 - 00:41:57:39
Unknown
Do you give yourself challenges, songwriting challenges? Do whatever I have before you. Okay. Absolutely, absolutely. But one of the things that, you know, I go through periods where I write a lot and I go through periods where I don't write at all. Yeah. And I think what what ends up happening for me is I end up feeling like I start to write the same song over and over and over again.

00:41:57:45 - 00:42:22:32
Unknown
Interesting. Yeah. And, and and then I, I the only way I can break out of it is just step away. And, and so doing things like that, challenging yourself to be able to try to write something that's, you know, not in your usual. Right. Do you have a question I like to ask you singer songwriter is is there a constant radio going on of loyal originals?

00:42:22:37 - 00:42:47:32
Unknown
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. There's constantly, you know, little snippets of melody, and I'm trying to always attach words to melodies. Yeah, I think that's. I think that's when, you know, you're you're supposed to serve the muse. I think is just, if you have that going on, then, you know, like, there's something otherworldly, kind of, you know, in here, you know, making me do this stuff.

00:42:47:37 - 00:43:26:01
Unknown
We have time just for, before you do your last song. I always like to ask, a person like you that, takes their craft so seriously. What advice do you have to give to people that are, fearful to to take the plunge into this world? Because unlike being a lawyer or any other kind of profession, there is no, you know, CV, there's no syllabus, there's no anything, attached to how to go about and becoming a successful musician.

00:43:26:06 - 00:43:50:46
Unknown
And there's no even definition of success. Musician. Right? I mean, for some people it could be bar, but, you know, the vast majority of people, you know, or talent fans aren't, but, you know, look at the tragic life of Townes Van. Yeah. So. What advice do you have? In this, this world of music where there be monsters?

00:43:50:51 - 00:44:12:07
Unknown
Well, you know, you said it, a little while ago. I mean, ultimately, you have to serve your muse, and, you know, don't be afraid to do what you hear in your head and to do it, you know, you just got to do it. Got to go out there and play. Did you worry what other family members and people thought of you?

00:44:12:11 - 00:44:39:08
Unknown
Not really. Yeah. So, you know, but as as some of you, that plays the kind of music I do, you know, I played in many situations where, you know, people really don't want to hear that kind of music. You know, you got a lot of people that want to hear, you know, covers. Well, one thing I always like when I, interview couples that are in the music, you know, I always ask, well, how do you support each other?

00:44:39:08 - 00:45:00:19
Unknown
But you're married, and, how do you, how does your spouse deal with you being a, singer songwriter? Oh, she loves it. She loves it. She's encouraging. She she always comes to shows, and she rallies her troops, and. And what kind of, career does she have in her life? She works at a medical laboratory. Oh, interesting.

00:45:00:34 - 00:45:09:34
Unknown
Yeah. Oh, okay. That's. There's a song challenge, right?

00:45:09:39 - 00:45:31:50
Unknown
Yeah. You were working on the virus. Well, you know, and that's that's, that's the other aspect that sometimes we, we talk about, but, you have to have kind of a nurture, base of support, but you also have to have that kind of damn the torpedoes. I'm going to. This is my life, right?

00:45:31:53 - 00:46:00:18
Unknown
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, is it true to say at the end of the day, no one's keeping score, correct? Yeah, that is true. That's a Martin maxim that I like to say. Nobody's really keeping score, which I to remind myself all the time because I think we're in a, we're in a weird life. Calling where in order to know that we're making an impact, we have to have somebody telling us to some degree, we're making an impact, right?

00:46:00:18 - 00:46:34:41
Unknown
Right? Right. Yeah. You know, so it's it's that's the toughest part about it. But, but you can do it. So any other, any other last minute advice, you know, especially with your being a teacher of music for somebody that is, let's just say again, they're on the cusp of, of doing what you are doing. Anything you would do differently now, you know, if I could go back and give advice to my younger self, I would just say, you know, go out.

00:46:34:46 - 00:46:51:11
Unknown
I was a little hesitant at first, you know, a little afraid to get out there and play, and you just got it. You got to get out. There is much, much as you can. I've had many music teachers that, you know, they were always like, you got to get up there on the bandstand, you got to get on the bandstand.

00:46:51:11 - 00:47:13:07
Unknown
You do all your now on the bandstand and and it's absolutely true. That's, That is so damn true. And a bandstand can be many different kind of things, but you have to get in front of people, you know, a vast majority of my career was. And still, you know, I will play retirement communities and things like that just where there's an audience for it.

00:47:13:07 - 00:47:34:19
Unknown
And they tell you exactly what they think of your music because they're old favorites. They the inhibitions are gone. So it's great if they don't like it. I don't tell you. But getting up in front of people is the best way, I guess, of of just knowing that you, you do have an impact, right? So whether it's church.

00:47:34:24 - 00:47:55:55
Unknown
Whether it's whatever. But getting out there and doing it, it's an important part of this. Yep. Yep. Is as many times as you can. All right. Well I want to thank you so much James for being on this. And I know you got to head off to work. Yeah. Over the flesh. It sure helps you do. And, so play us out with the one last good one and then I want to thank you guys.

00:47:56:09 - 00:48:16:13
Unknown
And you can check out where James is at. Why don't you go and hire him to, teach us how to play that, thing there called a guitar. Yeah. And, thank you for tuning in. And don't forget to support local musicians like James and all the other ones that are in not only Chicago, but where you live.

00:48:16:18 - 00:48:22:43
Unknown
All right, all right. I think I'll end things with the, a song I call, It's a losing battle with the leaves.

00:48:27:30 - 00:49:12:26
Unknown
And. It's so losing battle with the leaves. Seems like they rain from the trees. Can't believe the song be covering in snow. Will I also slowly fade in. Before the world casts me away? Will I fall so beautifully when I go? Oh, there's autumn in my eyes. In the air I'm looking nice. The smell of change hanging from the tree.

00:49:12:31 - 00:49:39:16
Unknown
Oh, I'm trying to catch them all up. But too many now have fallen. Oh, I'm fighting, losing battle with the tree.

00:49:39:21 - 00:49:49:22
Unknown
Oh.

00:49:49:27 - 00:49:53:48
Unknown
No.

00:49:53:53 - 00:50:38:13
Unknown
And every now and then I try remembering the spring sun pressed softly on my skin. Oh, what? That memory is growing. Oh, the wind is blowing cold. The leaves are falling. And winter is creeping in. So these battle with the leaves seems like the rain from the trees I can't see this on the cover is snow. Will I also slowly fade.

00:50:38:18 - 00:50:50:52
Unknown
Before the world casts me away? Will I fall so you just leave it up there. Go.

00:50:50:57 - 00:50:58:27
Unknown
Home. Oh.

00:50:58:27 - 00:51:16:10
Unknown
Thank you for listening. For more information about this show or a transcript, visit Martin mccormack.com while there. Sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung Out.

00:51:16:15 - 00:51:29:02
Unknown
It's so strong. Spain, we feel, makes no sense at all. The swan song wasn't part of the deal, was no good. All giving no choice. Giving us a.