Move It or Lose It | Episode 145 | Julie Stamm: MS and Vices

Move It or Lose It | Episode 145 | Julie Stamm: MS and Vices

Two strong women advocates being real about alcohol and other vices when the pain gets to be too much to handle with MS.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Hello, I'm your host, Kathy Chester, and welcome to the Move It or Lucid Podcast, a podcast about all things that move the mind, body, and soul. The Move It or Lucid podcast is for information, awareness, and inspirational purposes only. I am not a doctor, and I don't even play one on TV. So please consult your doctor before making any medical decisions. The views expressed by advertisers, guests, or contributors are their opinions and not necessarily the views of the Move It or Lose It podcast. Introducing the Pulse Device, cutting-edge, wearable device, revolutionary, wellness designed to stimulate circulation, reduce harsh pain and tightness, and speed up recovery. The Pulse device uses advanced vibro tactile technology trusted by patients, clinicians, and wellness professionals. Whether you're recovering from an injury, battling a narrow condition, or just want to feel the best every day. Pulse helps you rechange, recharge, so that you can live and feel better, lightweight, powerful, and easy to use. Experience better performance, better recovery, and a better you. Order now and save$30 using my code MSDisrupted at PaulsDevice.com. The Paul's device is your health recharged. You won't be disappointed. Get it now for yourself. I have it. I love it. Go ahead and grab it. Hello. Welcome to another episode of Move It or Lose It. So if you know me and you know Julie Sam, you'll know that we are very close. And so it's so fun to have you, Julie. I'm so happy to be here. And just see your face because we text and stuff. Right. Right. It's it's in person. I know soon. Soon I'll be in Colorado and we will be, and you'll be here. So we'll get to love on each other. But it is, I think, back to when we met finally. And Julie's, we're gonna have a little bit of this when we air the podcast. Julie thought I was gonna be short, like Judge Judy, which is funny because I'm like five nine.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

So yeah, well, like it felt you felt so much bigger because we're always talking, sitting down, but I I felt like I know you so well. And then when you were I was like, what?

SPEAKER_00 2:30

And like not at all what I expected. That's funny. And you were so tiny. I was like, I don't know why what I expected, but you were just so tiny. And um I mean I'm five seven. I'm not like yeah, short. Yeah, but you're fan and you're tiny, and I didn't think you were fat, but I just don't realize butt. No, no, my butt's gone. So I Caitlyn's like, Mom, you got I'm like, I can't do any more squats. The butts just they keep going from like a size two to you know, these weird sizes, it's hard to keep a butt. So no, not for me. Yeah, and that's it's so fun. So, Julie, we met a lot a long time ago. I think because now I think that like, oh, I met you last year, but really it was like five years ago or more. And I was so impressed because the first book that you wrote, because my kids were older, and I thought, oh man, you know that, that I supported that wholeheartedly, and just would have loved that for when my kids were younger. And there was really nothing like that. We didn't do that. We were so terrified of losing our kids that we didn't we didn't share a lot about that, and we didn't really know what to tell our kids because we didn't know, we didn't understand what really what we had. So it was hard to communicate that to family. Um, in any way, it's still hard, but to communicate, where are you in pain? I don't know how to explain that. And why are you so I don't know how to explain that? Um, you know, I just I just know something's wrong. And when the when the symptoms are invisible, it's like, you know, I I trade my play this with my clients, they're like, okay, I'll give you my brain if you if you give me your legs. So, you know, it's a tough one, right? Because we know that MS can obviously attacks our entire central nervous system. So it kind of can do whatever it wants, right? With our talking, with our um legs, arms, cognitively, it can really mess with us. Um, we know now that part of MS is depression, that's part of the disease. It's not like, oh, I'm starting to have depression. No, that's that's just that's part of MS. And um, so talk to me a little bit about that in writing the second book and how you felt through the years and how depression and stuff affected you.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

I would say um, more than depression, anxiety has been like a big driver in my life. Um I I mean it still is, and I couldn't really, I still don't know how to properly get that under control. That's a tough one, I believe, Julie. It is, and like certain medications make you feel worse, and people, you know, I remember one medication, I was like, I I lost empathy. Yeah, I I pride myself in being a very empathetic person.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Like I that's so weird. I didn't even know that because you are one of the most empathetic. I think that's why we click so well. Yeah, you are so empathetic. So gosh, what medication was that?

SPEAKER_01 5:32

I hadn't cried for six months, and I'm a crier, I literally cry every day, like in a happy way, a sad way, whatever. Yeah, um, but I hadn't cried for six months, and I was like, I don't know that it's worth right, losing yourself, losing. I mean, I wasn't worried, right? I didn't feel I didn't I didn't care. I just didn't, I didn't, I didn't care, and right, and so I was like, maybe I'd rather be an emotional nightmare in the future.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Right can handle that or work that um absolutely. I that's what I've learned out, you know, I'll tell you 100% this last year is that you know, I took that year off of for everything and just needed to be alone, needed to realize why do I attract these people that take, take, take, take, and you understand because we have that same personality. But then if I if I need something, it's like they're like, I don't really have time for that. And that's not a friendship. And so, really taking that time to really learn more about me, what we're never done with that, right? We think like there's gotta be a done time that we've learned stuff. I know. But it's like, what about me attracts that? And so I think that's that's really wise. And you do a really good job at kind of focusing in and listening and looking at, okay, this medicine is not worth it. I mean, just not being myself.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

And that, you know, I tried a lot of different medicines. It's not like I tried one, you know, one would make me dizzy, one would make me, you know, have a really upset stomach. Right. Right. I just couldn't find what was right for me. Um, and you know, I'm sure everyone in the world could benefit from therapy. I don't think our medical system makes it easy to get therapy. Yeah, so important. It is. I mean, I haven't even done it, like I tried it and I didn't find one that worked for me. And I'm like, I'm done. I can't figure it out because it's not easy. It's not, it's just like finding another doctor. Yeah, it's it's a smaller pool.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Oh gosh, yeah. And then to find a neuro, you know, I mean, I'm that I'm so grateful. I haven't had the best luck with a lot of my doctors, but I'm telling you what, Julie, if I got blessed by one thing, it was the fact that I have an amazing cognitive therapist, and to the point where he can switch it off. Like with this last year and it being difficult, he could switch hats and we could go more into my life, like making it. And and I just so appreciate his wisdom. And um, so that is that's so important. And it you're a hundred percent right, it's so difficult. I'll have clients that have been looking forever, and they'll find one that maybe doesn't know anything about what we're going through, doesn't have a clue about MS.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

So, and I'm sure you found, or they'll say things like, Don't worry about that. And you're like, No, that's not correct.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Like, that's just turn it off. You can't just turn off the worry, right? Right and honestly, like I I think you know, I'm 19 years in with MS. Um, my worries have changed, yeah. And it's so wildly different, and then sometimes I'm like, Oh my gosh, thank god it's not dementia, thank god it's not thank god it's not that, you know, like all these different things that it could be, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Um, it's so funny. Our female bodies and our everything changes all the time, you know. As we age, it just changes, changes. Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

And like you think it's the worst thing, you know. I I did, I thought it was like the worst thing, and now I'm like, well, I'm 19 years in, I'm a mom, I have a husband, I have a house, I have you know, everything it could be worse, you know. I mean, I'm not it it fucking sucks. Like I'm not negating that, and right it's a challenge. Oh, for sure. Single minute of every day. Yes, 100%. I use my arm to cross my legs and it's dark and my dog comes in. But you know, I I don't know, it's hard, it's hard to feel I don't have the answers, but I do try, you know, in my social media just to show the whole spectrum of the disease and how like life still happens, yeah, how that does impact the disease. Because yeah, unfortunately, like it's not only just the disease, it's everything that your stress, your yeah, you know, everything really can keep your progression, your hormones, like there's so many diseases in your life, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Okay, my check engine lights on, and I had to figure this out now, you know. For sure. And it's like some days, you know, you wake up and you've used five spoons and it's 9 a.m. You're like, I I don't know what I'm gonna do today because I am no spoons and I'm exhausted. And you are of you've always been so completely honest in any panel and any social media thing, any talks you've given. You are always what I love the most about you is your honesty and your just being very authentic about um, you know, about everything, your relationship before you got married, after getting married, um, and just the closeness that you guys have. Uh, I love the fact that there's so much joking because you really give, I think, one of the best things is if we don't learn to laugh with this shitty disease, then we're really screwed because it can't be serious, serious all the time because it is so dragging. And so just there can be that despair. You know, there can be, I think we grieve throughout, you know, we've talked about this before, throughout the years, we grieve differently as we age, we grieve differently. Um, even with my clients and their movement, depending as we age, the movement is different, and you know, explain that over and over. This is not, you know, we're not that age, we're not gonna do burpees, we're not gonna do that today. We're gonna do soft movement that helps us for our daily life, and that changes.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

So I'm an alarm on my phone that says move it or lose it because of you. I swear to God every single day because I have to do 20 minutes of something. I don't know that. It's it's every single day, and I cannot dismiss. I'm a weird person about I can't have too many like numbers that I haven't checked up, so I can't take it off until I do something. But I do that's a single day. I have to do 20 minutes. Thank you, laundry or vacuum, or something. Yeah, go for a walk, do I love that?

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Yeah, it's because of you, it's my reminder. I I really love that, and I think it's been so it's so enlightening, it's so good for people to understand that that movement has to have, but doesn't have to be the same, you know. It that's why I so love being able to do it on my own, and you know, just talk to someone and say, you know, like I look in at you, and and if it was a bad day, saying, you know what, the things we had planned out the door, we're gonna do this because this is what you need. So as you like going back to the stuff, you wrote the books, and then you had a lot of people just absolutely love them. You had like great um response to that. I mean, and it really changed things for you. Started doing some things, some big advocating for MS. Um, and then tell me how that the stress of that of the advocating and doing things versus doing things just as a family. Do you are you really enjoying the advocating? How much has that do you feel like that takes from you energy-wise?

SPEAKER_01 12:50

You know, it's evolved because I think when I was first diagnosed before my son was born, I was like, I well, I can't just take this line down. I have to find other people and I have to like show that you're gonna get through this. And that was just my mission, I'm gonna do it. Um, and then when my son was born, I was like, okay, I need to explain this and I'm gonna be honest with him uh in an age-appropriate way. So I wrote the book and then I became an advocate for children. And that that I would say is the easiest part of advocating because honestly, it it gives you more spoons, like when you're talking to children and just seeing their beautiful, oh yeah, unbiased minds come up with all these brilliant ideas, and then they're like, I want MS. I'm like, oh, I made it look good. Yeah, like you know, you don't, you know, and I made it look good.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

I love that you do that. How often do you do that?

SPEAKER_01 13:37

It really depends. Like, you know, I've slowed down this year, so it's yeah, you know, but um I enjoy it and I love that children understand MS. And I love I love I love it, but yeah, that my mom was diagnosed with frontal temporal dementia. Right. Um so I became her caregiver. Um, and that you know, that's a you know, a term that I don't take lightly because I can say my care partner, you know, he doesn't he's not my caregiver, but he's a part of this journey with me. And exactly being a caregiver is a very, very, very, very different role. Yeah, that I can't negate how much it affects your life, um, and your decisions and everything. Um, so I kind of, you know, I was still doing my advocacy work, but I was trying to advocate for my mom as much as possible. Sure. And you know, you can't do both. You so you feel like you're letting down one arena, and then you know, yeah. I'm like, oh, I should have focused more on this. Right. It's so easy to just constantly beat ourselves up about making bad choices nonstop.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Um we just do that. I think it's a female thing more than anything, is why why do we do I can remember the kids being little, and I don't remember an evening that I didn't, you know, lie in bed and think, I could have done this better, I should have said this. And we do that to ourselves, we just beat ourselves up. And no matter how you would have advocated, it would have been, well, I didn't do this, I should have done that. And it's so easy to do, but you had to take, I mean, your mom passed away this last year. Yeah, and yeah, and so talk a little bit about that. And here you were a caregiver, and then all of a sudden you you know it's gonna eventually happen, but it's like when are you ever ready?

SPEAKER_01 15:25

I don't I I I thought I knew what grief was, and I've written articles on MS. I'm sad about it. Ugh.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

It's okay, it's you know, you can do anything. Uh and I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Yeah, it's a different grief, it's a different heartache. Um and there's so much guilt. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

It's Julie, I want to hug you. And when I come in and hug you, I'm so sorry. Um, it's still very raw. Yeah, of course. Gosh, I think the first year do you feel more? I'm gonna try to do this without crying. Do you do you feel more numb or do you feel like it it kind of varies? Like some days it's it's numb and some days it's just very emotional.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

I wish I was numb. I wish I could turn it off. I can't, yeah. No, no, and that's and that's okay. You I mean, I can't imagine, you know, we were talking about this. Um I've always especially like I've always loved wine, it's a thing. Um, I've always been a drinker. I would say even from when I was like 12, you know, like um, it's just what we did in New York. We broke we've been on 40 ounces of oldie, and we would be it's just what we did. It was just we grew up with cigarettes and beer, and you know, yeah, oh my tag name was back.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

It was so stupid, right? Right. Like young, silly stuff. I hear so much about that from New York, from New Yorkers. So like, well, that's what that's what we did. Like just what you do.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

It's 12 years old, you're drinking, yeah, smoking.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Um, and I think I've always loved wine and I've always loved drinking. And I I I love the feeling of yeah, drinking. I love the feeling of being buzzed. I loved I didn't like when I got to draw, but that happened a lot.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

And um I decided in August of last year to give up red wine, which was my biggest bites because I was having not only one bottle, probably one bottles, fully functioning. You'd be able to not even think that I had a bottle of wine because I was drinking it. Um, I would I'm very grateful that I would say I don't think my son ever really noticed because it was just I'm very grateful then, and I think you know, I was playing and I was still having fun and being fun mom. Um, yeah. None of which I'm proud of that I was drinking in front of him.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

No, but when he's older, that'll mean so much to him that you you went through that. And that's one of the big things that we're gonna talk about today, but that you went through it and he's and you had the control and the and the whereabout to understand that this can't happen anymore. What's going on?

SPEAKER_01 18:12

As my mom was declining, I was drinking more. And I noticed like when I would go out to eat with my mom, even if it was like three in the afternoon, I'd be like, I need to have a couple of glasses of wine to get through this because I was getting so annoyed at someone that couldn't control yeah what's going on with her. But I like if I have a glass of wine, this won't be as well.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Yeah, it'll feel better. You know, like it'll feel better. Um, and I'm not proud of that either. Yeah, but Julie, I think the most beautiful thing is that you came out and talked about it, and so few people I honestly do that. The idea that you're gonna admit something when so many people look at you look to you, and it you don't know their response is gonna be. And you're admitting something that is very difficult, but is huge, not just in America, but all over, and it's something that affects so many families. And I just I was so proud of you, and I was so grateful that you did that. And I was just like, of course she would, because that's her.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

And um, because I don't think I'm alone, and I know, like, no, I wasn't drinking alone, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

I've never been like a drink aloner person. Um what was the response when you shared that? Uh it I was really surprised at how many people were struggling with a similar um not addiction, because I wouldn't say that I was an alcoholic. I mean, probably technically. Um I mean, I still drink, I'm not fully sober, but I I went from drinking every single night of the week to, you know, hey, it's two weeks and I'll have a beer.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Which is very, very different than, you know, and that's like a social hanging. Sure, sure. I'm gonna meet them at a bar and have a a beer. And I'm like, uh, yeah, fine.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Yeah. When did you have alcoholism in your family?

SPEAKER_01 20:00

You know, um my dad drank when he was younger, he gave it up probably similar way to the way I did. Like decided I don't want you know, I did grow up with my dad in my house, so I didn't really I don't remember seeing him as like a drinker, but apparently, you know, um yeah, so he he gave it up, I gave it, and you know, it started as I'm just gonna give up wine and red wine, and then it was like, man, I don't need white wine, and then I was like, I don't need this, and you know, yeah, and now um you know, people are like, You're gonna feel so much more energy, you're gonna sleep better, your anxiety is gonna be better. I you're gonna lose weight. None of these things have come to fruition for me because I'm probably eating Oreos way too much and all these sugar, yeah, you know. Um but I I think the pride that I have for doing it is there. Um and there's no like same with cigarettes. I loved cigarettes. Yeah, I had it was a over a pack a day smoker, and then I was like, this is gross, it's not good for MS. I'm gonna quit. So I gave up. And this was, you know, in 2007. So Right, right. Um, and that's what it that's what wine is for me. Yeah, it's gonna be no wine ever in my life again. I do that's yeah, it's okay for me. It's just done. It's for second, it's all the chicken pain, all of that is out. I've just I'm so proud of you for that.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

I'm so proud of you.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

It it sounds like uh it doesn't sound like a big deal, but the way that I was using it, it you know, the amount of pain that you know what it's like. Yeah, there's so much pain and anything to like stop the spasm and the pain at night. And MS did wine did that.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Pass out and then have a poor night's sleep, not realizing right, right. Um but I was able to sleep and that. That was the hardest adjustment drinking. Um is sleep pain. Yeah. Um, because I don't want to take oxy, I don't want to do all these other things. Um backlin and all the, you know, I just uh it's just not appealing to me. So it was an adjustment. Um, you know, I don't know how many months it is. I stopped counting because it it doesn't, it's it's a part of me that I don't hold with pride, but I'm proud, like I'm proud that my son can drink out of my glass now without asking what's in it. Do you know what I mean? I'm so yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

And I I think that the the thing is, Julie, is the importance of this too is the fact that how how you did it was so was so great and and just so honest and vulnerable. But the idea that opening this up today really is is on my heart to do because I think that we have so many people with brain injuries, whether it's MS, Parkinson's, um, rheumatoid, lupus, that were just in so much pain emotionally, um physically, that it's like, okay, well, I'm not getting on more medicine. So I just need something. And that anxiousness, and then all of a sudden there's like, oh, there's wine. Oh, there's tequila. That helps. And so it's an easy thing, and I think it's embarrassing. You go to the doctors, what do they ask? How many, how much alcohol do you have in the week? And so is anybody honest with that? Probably not.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

No.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Um, and I know that we have a lot of MSers that are don't drink at all. And I think, wow, um, I didn't drink with my kids the whole time they grew up because you know, I was in ministry. And I didn't, um, I don't think I had my first glass of wine until I was maybe 30 something. But I noticed for sure during during COVID, it was like a game, and then it was like, oh, well, uh, you know, a bottle, you know, we'll just try tap into that and we'll drink more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

And then I think you could be that girl that could just have one glass and like sit at dinner and have that one. I'm not, but I had to be honest with myself and realize like, I am not right. I am, yeah, I have one glass, I have to finish the bottle because it's not gonna taste as good the next day. And then, oh no, I opened another one.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Right, right. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's so whether it's you know, an actual, I think wine is the easiest, you know, because it's like there. And um, and I think the opening this up for, and I want to do this more and more, because I think the the amount of pain that we have with an autoimmune disease, and like we talked about emotionally, we don't know what's going on in in all of our lives, whether there's abuse, um, whether there's just the fatigue, the pain, but we do know that a lot of our people that are so close to us turn to either alcohol or other things, even to help that pain. We've I have used cannabis for sleep, but I I see a lot of, I get a lot of questions and I know a lot of it is abused, and it's then, okay, well, this helped with sleep. So maybe throughout the day I'll just, I won't do this, this, and this, but I'll just, you know, I'll do edibles all day, or I'll just smoke throughout the day. And so it becomes something that people get really sensitive about, as you know, because if if you are an alcoholic or you are abusing a substance, the last thing you want to hear is somebody telling you, you really can't do that. You're like, F you, you're not in the pain I'm in, you're not in my body. I'm gonna do what I feel is helping.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Yeah. And I think I but I think I was not, I think I was probably guilty of justifying it all the time. You know, like anyone that would question it'd be like, you have no idea what this is like, no idea the fight or flight mode that I'm in right now. Yeah, management of like my health, my mother's health, like being a the the the mental juggling and yeah, and then just I knew like my MRIs were progressing, I'm caring for my mother. It just was so much the weight. You overstimulated, overstimulated, just running on empty, fight or flight mode, literally falling over, not from being drunk, but looking like that, right? Right, might as well be drunk then, you know? Right, yeah, like just all these things and just right. So I did hear, um, you know, and I think of this a lot. No one ever worries about like what's in there. Like, if you're worried about someone else, what they're drinking, you're really thinking about yourself. You don't want to be alone with it.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

So true because like yeah, I don't care what someone else is drinking, but when I was drinking, I wanted everyone else around me to be drinking. Yeah, very true. Because I was like, and they were all doing it. But if I was out and a bunch of people were sober, then I would feel like I had to be sober. Yeah. So like if you just worry about your own thing and not about everyone else, it becomes a lot easier. And like, you know, getting I'm not fully sober. I say this all the time. I'm not life completely dry. I will have a beer, I will have ranch water or whatever. And right it I I don't plan to become fully dry, but I can tell you that I did not think I'd be able to give up wine. I did not think I really didn't, I thought that was gonna be just as hard as like smoking, which I was was very hard to give up. Right. Um and it was it, it was the first week, and then it wasn't. And there are like ways to do it, and I'm happy to give tips and tricks that worked for you. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure that you'll be asked about that. Because I think it always feels overwhelming. And yeah, I would always look for an excuse, like, oh, are we going to a kid's birthday at 12? Are there gonna be drinks? You know, yeah, right. I can get some dailies in that. What can I do? Then to make it we gotta make sure we have alcohol at this kid's birthday party, you know, right. Yeah, so I think I think it can be easier than you think it will be because it Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Well, I'm just so proud of you because I know so many people that have tried gone to rehab and then it they just go back to it.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Yeah. I mean, I think you know that one step at a time. Like for me, it was red wine is the worst. So you know what? You don't have to give up everything. Right. Because you know, I know I was slower with white wine. So I was like, okay, then I'll just have a couple of glasses of white wine and I was slower. And then I was like, all right, I can give this up. Now let's slowly eliminate yeah, the things that I really love and enjoy.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

And then which I think is wise. I think sometimes people can do that where it's just boom, they take it out. Yeah, and always my concern with that is that um, you know, gosh, you know, my family and I've I've had so many, I have so many alcoholics in my family. And with my dad was the hardest because he became more violent as I grew older and the alcoholism became worse. You know, of course, looking back, he was a Vietnam vet. Um, the stuff that he had to endure, see, do was, you know, and then they he had his foot almost blown up, so they send him to Japan, morphine, morphine, morphine. So then you come home, everybody hates you because you were in Vietnam. So, you know, the reasons I think are are there for, you know, nobody decides, you know, when they're little, I want to be an alcoholic. I know that for sure. I want to be a pilot, I want to do this, but I want to be a drunk as well. So, you know, some things in our life happen. There are um addicts throughout a family. I know that I really had to watch. I was watching so close when I have wine. Like, okay, do I want more? Do I can I stop? Do I still want it?

SPEAKER_02 29:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

And um, and I think that this I wanted to have just an open place for people to share that, yeah, this is so hard. And yeah, what makes me feel good is, you know, some tequila or a little bit of whiskey or wine, or those are the things that I feel are making it easier. And I don't have to report all the drugs that I'm taking when I go to the doctor. I don't have to say I'm taking da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And so I think it's just something that is way more prevalent than is talked about.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

You'd be surprised. I couldn't believe how many messages I got. And I do, I do think a reason why it was so much easier to give it up is because I have my son. That's my reason, you know. Like, yeah, I don't know that I would have if I didn't have him, because very interesting. I I'm I'm doing it so that I'm a good role model for him. So when he's older, he's proud of his mom and not like an alcoholic. And you know, yeah. I have no doubt that I have been a very fun mom this whole time. Yeah, no doubt that like I still am. Like, we're still playing video games together, we're still playing Lego, like we still do everything.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Well, to see you, you're just so fun with him.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Just like I love I love my life with him, and I want him to know that that is who his mom was or without a glass of wine.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Well, it's to encourage you and others, um, this last year is the first time that I saw my dad in 20 years. And my prayer was always, you know, when when I first did that, he was um very, very much in the prime of his alcoholism and very abusive. And um, it was very hard to do. My brother and I both made that decision. And my brother first, because me being the girl and the oldest, I was like, no, we can still help, we can still change it. Um, and honestly, when we did it the first, like we're gonna, we tried boundaries, all those things, and it didn't work. And I could say I really thought within a year, of course, losing your daughter and son, you'll definitely stop. And it was year after year after year, and there was no stopping. And if anything, it got worse and worse. And every year I took time that I would just spend time alone praying and fasting just for my mom and dad. And, you know, please let him set that damn bottle down. And um, his was whiskey and you know, bad to the point where I knew how to make his whiskey and coke when I was like six. So yeah, but what I can say is that Julie, it has been amazing. He um kind of not exactly the same, but he was in the hospital and he really felt, you know, whoever he felt like God was really speaking to him, not you know, God coming down from you know the heaven and saying, you know, here you go. But if you put that bottle down, you will see your daughter. And he put it down, and months and months a year later, we have a relationship, and it has been so such a blessing to have my dad back, my daddy, and have him to hold me, hug me, and um, and the same, you know, being there for them. And it's been it's been amazing. And so I just couldn't tell you how much that fills a void. And so, those of you listeners that think it's too late or you've lost a relationship with your kids, your kids naturally love you forever and they want that relationship. So you just being vulnerable as an addict, it opens the door for so much healing.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

So and I think even like I don't think Jack has any um bad memories around me with alcohol. I'm grateful for that. Like, I don't I think I was I have some memories that I'm like, oh, I wish that and I don't know, or whatever. But um I don't I don't think he does, and I'm glad that I stopped it before you couldn't.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Yeah. So good because it is, you know, as the oldest, I have my memories back, you know, from a little girl. But the thing, Julie, is that he's gonna remember that you stopped. That's what he's gonna remember. And I mean, I remember when my dad stopped smoking. I remember all the things, and so he's gonna remember those things. And so, you know, those of us who are really struggling and we've got kids and they're we're worried like you were like this is I I can't continue this. How is he gonna look at me? And um, I think it's important to reach out to the support groups that you feel safe in. Where would you say would be the places that you felt safe to reach out?

SPEAKER_01 34:24

I know this sounds crazy, but I do find comfort in sharing what I'm feeling on social media, like whether it be on my Instagram and then the amount of support that I receive there, yeah, I find comforting.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

And as much as I put myself out there, it's hard to talk about some of this stuff with people that you're in everyday life with. Um and you know this, and we both know this. Like MSers, we can get on the phone. I just talked to Joe yesterday and I talked to Damien, you know, like I talked to, yeah. Um, but we don't we skip the pleasantries, we don't care, you know. Right. What's the weather like? You and I, we didn't even talk about like no, we didn't. No, bust right into like tell me what's going on, real life stuff.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Um, I do believe that the MSers more than any of you know, because I have I collect them like Pokemon cards, yeah. But other than I feel that there is a difference between the MS community, there is a real which Damien call me. I text me, we haven't talked. Damien Damien, Damien, Damien. So I do think there is a there's a closeness that I've never seen in any other communities. There is a place where whether it's TikTok, which I would never have guessed, but you know, whether there is that, like, okay, what can I what can I do? I know I'm far away, but I can still do things for you. Um, and I don't think I've seen that in any other community. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_01 35:49

Yeah, completely. And just know, like all of our symptoms are so different, like each of us have different MS, different types of MS, different symptoms, but we get it because like that the mental burden of this disease is and like even you and I, we can walk around and hide it. Like, yes, no, by looking at us, hey, you have MS, but we're like, okay, the bathrooms are up there to your left. Right, right. Not many steps, there's a seat. Yeah, but like we're constantly surveying right, yeah. Other MSers get that because we're all doing the same thing in different ways, but like it it's a very tight community, and there's no, you don't, there's no strangers in our group, even if we just get introduced to a new, you know, we have a support group, I have it with a couple of other MSers, yeah. They don't come on and feel like they're introducing themselves and just getting us, they leave feeling like now I have lifelong friends.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

And exactly that, and that's so so important. It's that um, you know, whatever support group, and it's okay to be in more than one, you need support. So there are so many great ones that um, you know, I love it when I get you know women in because the one that I do is just with women, and I love when they're like, Well, I'm in this one and this is almost like asking permission. I'm like, go do what you need to do right now.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

Many as you want, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Yeah, there's times where I didn't want to be in support, yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. I 100% agree. How has it affected your relationship with your husband, who I'm I get to see again too? I get to see both of you. Um, how has that affected you guys with slowing down with uh alcohol?

SPEAKER_01 37:25

You know, I was not that I was worried. Yeah, I think I was a little worried because we've been like drinking buddies for the last 14 years, and we've always drank together. We always have you know our dates, and right like every night we would have our I'd have my wine, eat our whiskey, it was just like routine. Um and like every night wasn't we weren't drunk, like it was just it's just not a good thing to do every single day. Right. You know, at some point your body's gonna be like a little bit of a um and at first I was worried about it, and then I noticed it didn't really impact like we were still laughing, we were still joking, we still together all the time. Yeah, um and so just three weeks ago he decided to cut down. So he Okay, you know, so which is yeah, a big shift because he he never gets drunk, like he drinks, yeah. You would never know that he's had a drink, right? His personality doesn't change, he doesn't slow his words, he doesn't have difficulty, what like all the things like my MS symptoms get worse. So I have had two glasses of wine, still sober and fallen over, and then it's in my head. Now everyone thinks I was drunk, right? You know, yeah, it's like or slow my words or bite my mouth, or the million other things that I've done when I'm not even drunk, but it looks like I am. Yeah, um, so I I wanted to take away that excuse for people to be like, oh, she was drawn.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Like, not not that I've ever run into that, but mentally I make up because that anxiety gets there, like, oh, they're gonna think this, and I'm not, and so yeah, it's all those little things that play a part in it.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

Exactly. And so he decided on his own. I did not want to pressure him. He knew, you know, I always tell him, like, it's the third of the month, this is this month that I've given it up, or you know, right? Yeah, gave up August 3rd is the day. Um, so I I always just tell him, and then the other day I was like, Oh, you're you know, it's five o'clock, you haven't because we would five. And he's like, No, I'm gonna tonight. I was like, Wow. And you know, we have a routine every night. Jack has a shower, we play two chicks that we just like connect. It's just what we do. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

I love it too, and it's just such a good time to like, yeah, for me to be so many families have gotten away from that, you know, and it's like wait, go back to the table, like at least, you know, a couple, especially when they get older, at least like spend two, you know, because once they've got practices and you've got yeah, if there's three kids, you're like, okay, what day can be dinner night that we're all together? So I remember that being so tricky to do, but don't lose that. And even if it's like time, you it's so important because they remember that. I mean, my daughter with the new baby, well, not new, she's a toddler now. Um, I know I'm like, don't grow anymore. But um, you know, it's it's really neat to watch the things that you did with them and have them repeat it when they've got their little one. And it's like, oh, I can't, and it's so cool. And she'll be like, Well, mom, I got that from you. And I'm like, Oh, thank you. So it, you know, it feels good to know that the things that you're doing now, you know, in a good way when you don't see, is there a return on this? Like you see it later on, you know, which is really cool. So um, I love that. I love that your honesty about because I think that's a fear that a lot of us have with our significant other, is that well, this was what we always did. And if I don't do this, what is that gonna how is it gonna affect? Am I gonna be as fun? Is she gonna wanna be around me, or is she gonna want to do something different because I'm not the drinking buddy anymore? Right, I'm not the one about it.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

I did, and it's crazy because it turns out I'm just as hilarious. No, I'm just um no, but he's so much but like uh he's been very supportive, and I think it was like an adjustment for sure, because you know, even when we go to people's houses, like I'm always bringing bottles of wine and then right, right. Well, I will bring a bottle, but I'm not having it.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

Right, right. I think that's awesome too, that you're doing that, and I think that is key too, because um, you know, that I I have been dating a little bit, and I love the fact that he's not a drinker, and that's just what he never has been. But he doesn't look at me if I order a glass of wine like, whoa, like can you do that with your MS? Like, that's there's no judgment, you know, it's like the way it should be, and I think that's it.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

Like, if you if you are out there, anyone in the world, and you can have a couple of glasses of wine and feel completely like happy and cool. Right. I mean, people are normal drinkers. I would say that my habits, the last not my whole life, the last five years of caring for my mom, yeah, became too much. Yeah, it's like yeah, I would not want my son to look back and like hear the recycling, you know, like right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

Yeah, like very good, yeah, very smart. Yeah, and it's not it's just not something I was proud of. So it was I'm well, I just again I'm so proud of you, and I want to do more stuff of this. And I'd like to do a podcast together with um with some people who are who have felt like I'm abusing some things, and we can do that together. Um, so you like how I ask you while we're on. I love it. I'm in. I'm like, I can name some people, but I'm not gonna do it while we're no, it'd be good. We'll do it. Yeah, don't do that. But um, you know how much I love you, and I love that that we are able to share today about, you know, real again. It's just when we do stuff, you know, whether it's you know, Dawn, we did that one last year. Um time for me is all over. But um, it's just the reality and the I think the strength in numbers, and we are just authentic. So thank you so much, and I love you so much that you were willing to come on and talk about this stuff because it it is so difficult. So I love you.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

I love you. Thanks for having me. And absolutely in Detroit personally, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Okay, you hold on. Um, guys, don't forget to like, give us your feedback, like, and please subscribe because that's the most important thing. And a lot of people don't do that, and so that helps us a lot in our podcast. So I will see you next week with another edition of Move It or Lose It. Have a great day. Thank you again, Julie. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining me for another episode of the Move It or Lose It podcast. It would mean the world to me if you subscribed and left a review. Remember, you can find me on Apple, Spotify, Tipter, and YouTube. New episodes of the Move It or Lucid podcast air every other Wednesday. If you have any suggestions for future guests or topics, please. Visit my website at www.msdisrupted.com. Until next time.