Pastor Plek's Podcast
Pastor Plek's Podcast
A Teenager's Journey Through Same-Sex Attraction
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355: What happens when God's Word confronts our deepest desires and identity? For 16-year-old Chase Vu, it meant a profound transformation that upended everything he thought he knew about himself. Chase's journey begins at a gay-affirming church where he embraced both Christianity and homosexuality, believing the two could comfortably coexist. But when his mother and sister pointed him to 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Chase faced a spiritual crossroads that would demand his full surrender. "I had to realize that if you always substitute your faith for your feelings, then you're only going to be a Christian when it's convenient for you," Chase shares with wisdom beyond his years. Tune in to hear more about Chase's testimony.
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and welcome back to pastor plex podcast. I am your host, pastor plec, and join me in studios none other than pastor holland greg. Welcome back, holland, thank you so much. Thank you, and also uh, with this is jordan smith, a regular guest around here, and then new to pastor plex podcast is none other than chase Vu. Welcome, chase.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad you're here. So what are we talking about, Chase?
Speaker 3:So we're going to be talking about my own journey with struggling with homosexual desires.
Speaker 1:All right, let's talk about it. And Jordan I brought him on because he is a person who also struggles with same-sex attraction and he has been wrestling and wrestling for years on this one, and I would love to hear you guys interact a little bit, so talk to us. First off, how long have you been a Christian? What's your journey to this point?
Speaker 3:been. So I personally have been a Christian for about four years now, Ben. So I personally have been a Christian for about four years now and even after I was saved I was still under the impression that it was okay to have homosexual desires and act on them. Because I was at a gay affirming church and I was kind of taught that, you know, our God is a graceful God, a forgiving God, and as long as you love who you love, there's not going to be any judgment for that. Basically, and that was the mentality that I had for I'd say, probably two years ago, um, when I got very serious in my faith, um, my, both my sister and my mom had told me about I think it's first Corinthians six nine, where it's talking about um, people who act on homosexual desires will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. And that was kind of an awakening for me, because I had really wanted to get baptized at the time, yeah, but I did not want to get baptized. I didn't want to get baptized while still acting on homosexual desires. I didn't.
Speaker 3:When I got baptized, I wanted to be sure that I was ready to fully commit to my relationship with God. Okay, so I was like I'm not going to get baptized until I'm 100% sure that I'm ready to give up that part of my life. And it took a long time. I waited a whole year and I was praying about it and even after I got baptized I still struggled with it. But I which I think people with those kinds of struggles might struggle with them the rest of your life perhaps people with those kind of struggles might struggle with them the rest of your life perhaps. But um, yeah, I definitely got to a point where I decided I need to put god first in my life. So how did you like.
Speaker 1:so it was your mom and sister who, like, showed you first corinthians 6, or are you reading on your own? I mean, what was the thing like where you're at a gay affirming church, you get saved there, right? So like they talk about Jesus died on the cross for your sins, rose from the dead. And then you're like cool. And they're like, oh, by the way, if you are a homosexual, go for it, we support that. And then you shifted from that. How'd you get to that church in the first place?
Speaker 4:Hold on so can I talk real quick. I don't have a lot of time here, so I will say Chase that verse. The thing that's helpful for me is also it talks about drunks won't inherit the kingdom of God and all these other sins. People like to use that as like the gay bashing verse, but they're probably self-deceived in a lot of ways and should check themselves. But verse, but they're probably self-deceived in a lot of ways and should check themselves. But yeah, I'm also interested did you seek out a gay affirming church or how'd you get?
Speaker 3:plugged in there. No, so it was Brie and Pablo's church at the time and it goes into like the my actual testimony and deeper into that. But Brie and Pablo had invited me to go to that church and they weren't aware that it was a gay affirming church at the time, I think. But yeah, it's not necessarily that they like openly talked about the fact that they supported it, they just also didn't talk against it, right, and they would like baptize gay couples together. And that's kind of how I went there and I didn't really think anything of it. Um, because, as their teachings at the time, they have improved, I do still attend the church on occasion, um, but at the time they're teaching improved, like they've shifted more concert, like to say, like that's not okay now, or um, I think the pastors of that specific church have okay.
Speaker 3:However, they're part of a like a bigger branch of churches so, like the head um pastor, I don't think allows them to really talk about it wow well that's wild yeah yeah, had you read those verses before any verse that was saying homosexuality is a sin, acting on it at least.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So just to clarify, after my mom and sister had told me that if you do want to be serious about your faith, you can't really act on gay desires, I had went home and I know it sounds silly, but I was kind of reading through my Bible because I was really having a hard time accepting it and I was trying to. I was trying to look for like a loophole, almost like something to justify my sin, and I was really just trying to find a second way. And then I found first Corinthians, six, nine through 10. And I was so utterly focused on how it said you shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven, and it just completely broke me. But then, but then I found verse 11 and it says and such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of our God.
Speaker 3:So I think it took me a long time In fact I didn't even have this revelation until recently. But I had to realize that that was the old me and I was born that way. But I was also reborn through Jesus when I was baptized. So I got to finally say like I'm leaving behind that part of me and I don't have to identify as that anymore. I don't even have to put my identity in my sexuality. Instead, I can finally put it in Jesus alone.
Speaker 4:What makes you think you?
Speaker 3:were born that way. Yeah, yeah, it's just that. You can ask anyone in my family. But I, just from a very young age, I always um acted very gay, I guess. So I don't think it was necessarily anything in society that pushed it on me or as, or, as far as I can remember, it didn't seem like that. It's just that's I always like since I can remember. It didn't seem like that. It's just that's I always like since I can remember always had an attraction to both men and women. And then as I grew up, I guess people just thought I acted more gay. So since they already put that label on me, I just kind of went with it. And you know, there's the power of life and death is in the tongue. So I would just say that I was gay and because of that it only grew. So how?
Speaker 1:old are you? Right now, I'm 16. You're 16. So this at 12, so as you're just entering into puberty, is where you're experiencing salvation and you're experiencing a conflict with your own soul. And now, at 16, are you? How are you operating on a daily basis to kind of to reinforce your I don't know your your faith over your sexuality?
Speaker 3:You know I'm I'm honestly still working on it. If I'm being honest, I just staying consistent in the word is very helpful to me. Music has always been helpful, so I try and stay and listen to worship music, just reaffirming my faith on a daily basis to try and help. But also I do do accountability with various people, including Pablo, my brother-in-law. Wow, but also I do do accountability with various people, including Pablo, my brother-in-law.
Speaker 4:Wow.
Speaker 3:So we have had many talks and phone calls about just overall confessing like what I've been feeling very convicted about lately, and almost every single time I think it has come up where I'll say yeah, I felt very lustful this week, or like I've just very, I've just felt more inclined to act on homosexual desires.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so hold on Let me yeah. I'm going to go ahead and take over real quick, but I wanted to circle back a little bit and you say you acted gay, do you mean by that? Or people said you acted gay, so I'm curious because it's actually something again. Yeah, yeah so who says those are gay traits? It's kind of what I'm thinking through right now.
Speaker 1:I think guys come in different varieties and just because the culture flamboyant dude yeah just because the culture assigns that to being more feminine.
Speaker 4:It's the culture, it's not the bible exactly so.
Speaker 3:I definitely think it was just, um, you could say society. I could just say it was the kids at my school who made me feel that way, but I definitely think it was other kids who picked up on the way I acted. It was also, um the friend group that I had around me that, I think, influenced me to act that way. Not to blame them, because I'm sure I would have acted more flamboyant, um either way, but I at the time had not a good friend group, um not the best influences on me, and they were um a very like lgbtq community kind of friendship group and so I think also surrounding myself with them, also made me, made my traits a little more flamboyant, I guess you could say yeah, jordan, how for you like?
Speaker 1:one of the things that we talked about with you is that whenever, uh, when we you know you've talked about this over and over, but you're at I love what he was saying about his affirmations or reaffirm on kind of a daily basis, do you still do like those affirmations or like, or is that sort of drifted off over time? It or is that sort of drifted?
Speaker 4:off. Over time it's drifted off, but I mean I can still find my identity in the Bible. I just don't necessarily say those affirmations every day anymore.
Speaker 1:And for someone like you know you're over twice his age, right, thanks, you know. So what does that mean? Like? What kind of hope can you offer him about someone who, like it, hasn't like changed for you necessarily? But have you found a closeness with God, or has it just been like a grind of like? I'm going to take this by faith and I can't go back because I know that's God's word. How do you handle that Jordan?
Speaker 4:I mean there's seasons, right, ups and downs. It definitely feels like a grind. I mean, abraham had to wait 80 years but at the same time he also cheated on his wife in that time period.
Speaker 4:So take that with a grain of salt. But yeah, just, it's still. It's hard. You know you have to take it by faith. Really, I think God can change that. It doesn't mean he has to Either way. It's for his glory and trying to see it through that lens, which is obviously a lot easier said than done, yeah, but I do have to leave and I will just say keep fighting the good fight.
Speaker 1:That's always been an encouraging thing people have said to me, so thank you man, yeah, thanks jordan yeah so, chase, let me, let me talk to you about this because, like you said, you were attracted to guys and girls like is that shifted. Now are you still attracted girls? A little bit are you yeah and so is it something.
Speaker 1:Now it's like I'm going to overcome, uh, the I'm going to kill off in me the attraction to men in a sexual way and I'm going to I don't know since feed it, but like I'm going to cultivate a godly life. And so how are you? How do you? Because there's people listening, they have kids that are saying that they're gay, they're having kids that are, that are now 25, that are coming out as gay. We have a whole trans world of insanity and yet you were able to, even in a gay-affirming church, to hear the words of your mom and your sister, to then say to kind of grieve. You had to go through a grieving process of giving up my sin for King Jesus.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And here I mean to me when I hear that. That is like it reminds me of the rich young ruler. Jesus comes up to the rich young ruler, or the rich young ruler comes up, jesus falls on his knees. What must I do to be saved? And he's like you know, you need to keep all the laws. Like I've done that. I've been pretty much awesome my whole life. He's like oh, one thing you still lack go and sell everything you have, give it to the poor and then come follow me. And I think for you, you kind of went through a process. I have to give up everything, I have to follow Jesus. And you were able to do that. And the question I have, like that, like how were your parent or how was your mom and sister able to speak that into your life in a way that you received it not with like, or maybe you're at first, you're like whatever, I don't know um, but how did you respond? What were the thoughts going through your head? How did the holy spirit work in you over this past season?
Speaker 3:Um. So it was my mom who told me first, Um, and I was definitely just in a state of shock. I wasn't um, I was just taking in what I was hearing, because up until this point they my family had um, reassured me that it was okay to have these desires, and then my mom kind of went about that situation saying that she would always support me, no matter what. And but if you are serious about your faith, then this is what the Bible says, and I guess that came from her own conviction, also being a Christian. So then I kind of left that there and then I went to go talk to my sister and my brother-in-law because they were, and until this day, some of the biggest mentors and Christian influences on my life, and we had had conversations where they had also made me believe, not in a bad way, that it was okay to act on these desires, even as a Christian. But we were no offense to them, love them. I think we were all just in a lukewarm state, kind of at the time being.
Speaker 3:So I don't blame them at all for thinking that, because they were still in their own learning process as well. But then, yeah, I guess I was kind of a little upset about that because they were just, they were like my best friends and they were always people that I trusted more than anything in the world.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I kind of went over to their place and I sat them down and I had a talk and I was like I just I don't know where this is coming from, because up until this point, um, I was kind of led to believe that it was all right. And so I was like what made you feel all of a sudden that it's not? And my sister just kind of kept it real with me, which I appreciated it a lot. She was saying it just came from reading the word and being more consistent in the Bible and over time I came to realize that in the Bible and after, over time, I came to realize that, um, there's in her um, I don't know if this is the exact way I should put it, but there's no such thing as a gay Christian. You're either gay or a Christian and you can't really they can't really coexist.
Speaker 3:And although I was upset at first, it took some time and a lot of prayer. This was not just um, this was not just like God flipping a light ball, like a light switch in my life, like it took a long time, in fact. I don't like I was um, I didn't even actually admit that I was ready to let go of the gay part of me until this year, like I think it was like a month ago, I came back from retreat and I, I w, I went to a Christian retreat for my other church and was the same church that affirmed your gayness.
Speaker 3:And now, yes, but it's well sorry let me, that's good.
Speaker 1:I mean, I love how God can work the crazy way yeah.
Speaker 3:Um, so the youth is run differently than the actual church.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's wild.
Speaker 3:Yes, so I have made all my friends in the youth and the youth pastor aware and they have all been utterly supportive and understanding and agree with me.
Speaker 1:Wow, so the youth is so there's a chance you could change the direction of an entire church because of your conviction about what god is telling you, and you could write the course of so many souls of the future as they, as they start to see the reality that god, the holy spirit, is working in you. You, you know, you're at a gay affirming church who then notices this in you, that the holy spirit is at work, and they're like huh, here's a guy that we said go for it, you know, marry a dude. And then all of a sudden you're like no, the God's word says this. And now you've transformed I don't want to say give you like God, through you, has transformed the youth group and inevitably that's going to have an effect on the church as a whole. Yeah, that's wild. I mean god willing, yeah, yeah, no, but that that's. That is an incredible chase.
Speaker 1:Like when you think about you know, like old people everywhere, um and by old people I mean people like you know, over 20, um, they are like terrified of the next generation coming forward and just saying, oh, that's old, draconian, old stuff. We don't live like that anymore. We need to be free of all the rules of this ancient book, and what you're saying is the ancient book has life to you and it actually is breathing into your soul. And would you say you feel more connected to Christ now that you've kind of validated with Scripture, you've aligned with Scripture? Do you feel more close to Christ now that you've kind of validated with Scripture, you've aligned with Scripture? Do you feel more close to Christ now?
Speaker 3:For sure.
Speaker 1:And so what is your like? How do friends at school like, because you're still at like a normal high school and you're still dealing with people that are probably like oh, you're better than us now. I mean like, how have you dealt with like the high school drama, so I'm homeschooled? Oh, you're better than us now. I mean like, how have you dealt with like the high school drama, so I'm homeschooled? Oh, okay, got it. That is definitely All your classmates are. All your classmates, just think you're weird.
Speaker 3:No, so it's online school.
Speaker 1:Okay, but I'm sure it's online school.
Speaker 3:All right, so you're not having to deal with that. It's a Christian online school.
Speaker 1:Okay, so the only interaction you've had this is wild to me, so the only interaction you've had with other kids is at a church where they're gay affirming, and then you change the culture of it. Okay, that's powerful. So talk to me about then. Like, what's the message then for you as you move forward, as you interact with other teenagers? Like do your parents allow you to be on like tiktok or anything? Yes, and like how do you like, have you seen anybody with like your same message?
Speaker 3:um, I personally have not. I've seen like influencers on social media with the same message, but I personally have not met anyone right with um the same experiences that I've gone through, or like what I've dealt with personally. And um, just to go back a little, I I was in public school. This is my first year doing online. Okay, all right, so we just left.
Speaker 1:uh, what was it? So? How long have so you've been fully, I don't know, jesified in the past year? Jesified, I don't know christian. I don't know. Jesus-ified in the past year, jesus-ified, I don't know Christian, I don't know. I'm trying to get full on here right, like you're going on, like there's no such thing as a gay Christian. I'm fully in following Jesus. I'm leaving my old life behind, new life, born again. That's all happened outside of public school.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was happening while I was in public school as well. Yeah, so I was still trying to spread the word, spread the gospel.
Speaker 1:I was inviting kids to youth every now and then, but I definitely while in public school, I still identified as gay okay and so for them to find out, now that you are of christ follower, that you've said no to homosexuality and you are wanting other people to also say no to homosexuality, what would they say to you?
Speaker 3:um, I guess that was always like my biggest fear and why I was a little nervous, um, or anxious to admit this change in my life at first, because I, to be to be completely honest, I don't know if they would believe me, right, and it also comes with this fear of pushing people farther away from God. Right, because we live in a society today where everything's connected to your emotions and your feelings and, oh, if I'm not feeling God, then it can't be real. And eventually I had. I guess my message to people is that I had to realize that if you always substitute your faith for your feelings, then you're only going to be a Christian when it's convenient for you. Wow.
Speaker 3:And spoken from a 16 year old year old and, like I said, I don't. I don't claim to, um, I don't like to tell people that it's easy because it wasn't. This has been a hard fought battle, that I've been praying for over many years and even until this day, I still struggle with it and, um, I'm still trying to find ways. Like when I said, I try and reaffirm my faith on a daily basis. I think everyone should do that, whether you have these desires or not. Yeah, and I'm not perfect in that I forget to read my Bible all the time, but yeah, I definitely think that it is possible as long as you put your identity in God.
Speaker 1:So you've kind of so, did you like? Say hey, I'm now. I don't know if you said this I'm now not gay, I'm going to leave public school, or it was like public school is just a dumpster fire. I'm going to homeschool. What was the?
Speaker 3:it was more like the second one. So um. So last year I had I was just struggling a lot with my own personal health and family issues, so I would go to school and I could not even focus on the work. I was always filled with anxiety and depression and just struggling with my own mental health, and I was calling my mom almost every single day to come pick me up. I just couldn't get through school.
Speaker 3:So I pushed through the end of freshman year and then over the summer my parents and I had many deep conversations and we said, okay, we've tried public school and it's just not working out for me. Maybe we could try online school. And since I had already been a Christian at that point, I said maybe it'd also be better to pick an online school that is Christian based, because that would just help me personally and it definitely has. The teachers at my online school now are so amazing. They kind of they try to combine biblical stories with our lessons every single day and every day before class they pray over us, pray over the class. It's just.
Speaker 3:I definitely think it's improved my faith and my mental health a lot more. I definitely do miss the interaction. I do think it has had an effect on me being a little less social. But then again, I think that every kid's different and being in public school, I just felt like another kid in the classroom didn't really feel seen, didn't feel um, like a priority or really taken care of, and I just wasn't learning. So I think everyone's different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you're really functional here on like, like. If you had any, did you have an anxiety before you came on here?
Speaker 3:for sure all right.
Speaker 1:So, like you're unbelievably functional, you're able to communicate without, like you know, losing your, your trained thought, and you know normal stuff that 16 year olds do, like I don't know if you know many 16 year olds, but they can't form a coherent thought, and so the fact that you're able to to do that shows that that you really have a gift. Do you think that, um, and and I'm assuming, maybe I'm putting this on you, I don't want to do that, but that even like the, the homosexuality, or like having to live up to what other people's label was for you, inhibited you, or or like you're trying to perform a little bit? Was that any part of that? Or just the, the mere fact you're around a bunch of insane kids and they're all insane, and it's just so fun to be around fun people that you're just like it's hard to pay attention um, yeah, I definitely think it was like somewhere in between, where it definitely was influenced by the kids.
Speaker 3:I was around, yeah, and that label definitely was put on me and since in my head I was like, well, I am somewhat attracted to guys, like I guess I'll just go with it. Um, and like I said earlier, it only grew from there and yeah yeah, no that's, that's wild.
Speaker 1:So do you still have any interaction with your old, like um high school friends on occasion, but for the most part you're kind of cut off from them and you're just starting to focus on you and your relationship with God. And what is your social out output? How do you interact socially now?
Speaker 3:Um, mainly through the youth, and then just anytime, anything social comes up with, like friends from my old school, if they want to, if they ever want to meet up or we want to go do something, then I guess, like I'll go do that on occasion. Yeah, way to go, I think that is, in of itself, that's.
Speaker 1:That's a challenge and, uh, holland is now a homeschool dad and so, um, he's gonna have to face that same challenge. Any thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:on we got we got four kids and they're they're all younger though, so my oldest is, uh, he'll be 11 this summer, so we're not in the, like you know, high school teenager phase yet, but a couple of years we'll be there and, yeah, I think they're.
Speaker 2:A lot of their friendships and social stuff happens through church, through sports, through playing with neighborhood kids and stuff like that. Um, and uh, I, I, I love, I, thank God for church friendships and being able to have community with other people who know the Lord and are being raised to. You know, love the Lord. Because your you know book of Proverbs says you walk with the wise, you become wise. And when you're walking with other families who are, as opposed to walking with people who are following whatever the world says is right, walk you know, walk in in the ways of you know, whatever's popular in culture lead you off a cliff. Um, and so the blessing of being able to have you know like a youth group or um community through a Christian uh, it's all online. There's nothing like local in person that y'all do together.
Speaker 3:No, um, I guess it depends on where you are, cause I do know that in some places, like I, have a bunch of online friends in california where they all have a certain place where they go meet up to do school together yeah, that's cool, so it does depend on where you are. There's just not a lot of kids on the. It's an international school, so there's gotcha. There's kids all around the us.
Speaker 3:There's people like from britain yeah but um, yeah, there's not a whole lot of kids who do it here in texas, and the kids who do do it here in texas are a lot more south I got you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're starting something up in the fall where it's like once a week on mondays there's like a co-op type thing with you know their families and stuff, and so I think, man, homeschool is a blessing.
Speaker 1:You should come up here once a week and just hang out with us. Yeah, I should, yeah.
Speaker 2:Also well, I was going to say one more thing Earlier you were talking about. You know your old friends and you know feeling like you don't want to push people away from God.
Speaker 2:And like I think that's something anyone listening who's wanted to share their faith can resonate with in you know, not just about this particular issue, but just about that fear.
Speaker 2:But, man, I think of like it takes a lot of courage basically to try to talk to others about the faith, knowing that they might push away from you or might push away from church even. I think about the courage of you know your mom and your sister, and you know there's probably probably some of that fear in you know, with talking to you about this, and of you know your mom and your sister, and you know there's probably some of that fear in you know with talking to you about this, but you know to find the courage to have those conversations with you to the point where now you would say like, wow, man, it opened my eyes and I see things differently now and I feel closer to Christ. And I think there's so much encouragement to be found in that that some people will reject you and will, you know, separate themselves. If you try to reach out to them with the word but other people, you could change your life forever.
Speaker 1:And so just remembering.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's what's really cool, jesus. You know, when Jesus met with a rich young ruler, the man walked away sad and he did the exact right thing. And the guy walked away sad. And so it might be that someone needs to walk away sad, as even you, yeah, walked away sad, but then that's what's generated the holy spirit's work in you to grieve the loss of sexuality so that you could gain Christ. And that you know, we don't know the end of the story for the rich young ruler. All we know is that he walked away sad then, and so who knows ultimately what happened with him? But Jesus loved him and then loved him enough to tell him the truth about what was wrong with his soul.
Speaker 1:And I think that's the struggle, and I think this is where you, as a Gen Z-er, are expressing the fear of I don't want to offend, and in fact it is the offense that brought you to salvation of recognizing, if I'm going to be serious about God, then this part of my life can't be a part of my life, and god calls me to something greater beyond sexuality, because even like a heterosexual person, uh, if they folk, if they're so focused on sex, they're just as guilty and wicked as a homosexual in terms of they are in sin with their lust. It just is probably scattered among eight gazillion images of porn, and so the thing I want you to see is that that person's repentance might look a little bit different, but the whole point is that they're having to say no to a sexuality that is not godly and say yes to following after Jesus. That's hard to do, and so I think what our young men, especially across the country, need is like a man like you, chase, who is 16 and says I'm willing to do hard things. I'm not merely going to do what feels convenient, which I really loved. You're a Christian in convenience, so stop stealing the label. I love that.
Speaker 1:But like, if we need to move from convenient Christianity that adopts to however we're feeling at the time, we get all the comfort of Christ but none of the king-ordained rebuke, and I think that kids would gravitate to, they'd rise to that, because there is something great and a great and high calling to live for something greater than yourself, and our entire culture has been built around. It's about you feeling good. Feel a little better, feel a little better, and I think what we've realized that makes us mentally depressed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like the worst thing, like there's a version of you know, a a shell of Christianity that takes the name of Christianity, but the worst thing that could ever happen is someone walking away sad. You just want to approve of and affirm everything and yet when you look at Jesus in the Bible, people walked away sad sometimes, and I think that is the—so even you know what you're talking about is like the desire. There's a whole brand or branch of you know people claiming to be Christian or who are Christian, but are saying that as long as you're not acting on it, that's fine. The desire itself isn't sinful. Because you know, and saying that, you know, it's that same impulse to try to just like I just don't want to offend anyone, I want to affirm people. It's that same impulse to try to just like I just don't want to offend anyone, I want to affirm people, whereas you know, the Bible is very clear we're not.
Speaker 2:It's not just our actions, it is our desires, our hearts, even, and so even what Chris was saying earlier, the reality, all of us have disordered desires and the Bible doesn't say there's like two different homosexual, heterosexual, is not, you know, like two different types of people in the Bible.
Speaker 2:There's one type of person, human being, and all of us have disordered desires in a bunch of different ways, and even if we don't act on those desires, the desires themselves are sinful. And the way to freedom is not by telling someone, hey, your desires are fine, it's no big deal, but rather us learning to confess our desires, bring our desires to God and even receive you know, receive his grace and his healing and his forgiveness, even for the things that we don't act on but still desire in our hearts. And so I feel like that's a level of, you know, the Christian message that people are unwilling to say because we don't want to offend anyone and what we're doing is we're, we're, you know, um, holding, holding out on them. Experiencing real freedom at the level of your heart, not just your actions, does that make sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's the next step for you, chase? Like as you're looking at your life as you're, you know you're 16, you're two years away away from graduating, which I know, at 16 feels like forever, but it's going to come like that, um, in two years. What's the plan? Is there any calling of ministry on your life? Is there a desire to go in, like I don't know? Uh, you want to be an engineer, you want to be a graphic artist? Like what, where are you going? If you were to kind of say, like, the direction, your, your life is what?
Speaker 3:I really don't know. My, my, my calling has gone everywhere. I've, um, I've wanted to be an artist. I've wanted to be, um, I, I used to be in musical theater, so I always thought about, like, maybe doing theater when I'm older, um, I have been called to ministry, or I felt a calling to ministry and I do think that it would be really cool to do it. Um, and yeah, I think I'm really open to anything. The reason that I'm open to doing anything is because I've heard too many stories of people who were saying like, oh, I went to college so sure that I wanted to do this, and then the minute I graduated, god said Nope, you're, you're going into ministry or doing something like that.
Speaker 1:And then you spent $200,000 on nothing yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm with you. That was my story. Yeah, and my story as well.
Speaker 1:But thankfully government paid for mine. So yeah, I think that's what's hard about it. Tell me about your view of college. I'd love to hear the 16-year-old view of college, because most old people like us just think it's trash now. So, tell me about what's your view as a 16 year old looking at college. What do you think?
Speaker 3:I really don't know. I haven't started looking at colleges yet.
Speaker 1:From a 16 year old perspective, where you you know, you don't know anything about anything. You're just like college.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was always taught that it's good to go to college because it makes it easier to get a job, for some reason. Right, that was the olden days. Yeah, I definitely think that college can be a very important aspect of your life, because I've heard a lot of testimonies where people's lives did get changed at college because they had good ministry. But it's different for everyone, because I also know that there are some colleges out there who have some very philosophical teachers who like to speak out against Christianity. So it's very hard, because I do know that colleges have a little bit of everything. But for me personally, I just think that, were I to go to college which I probably will, that were I to go to college which I probably will as long as I immediately try my best to find a good Christian community to help keep me accountable and help keep me on the straight and narrow path.
Speaker 1:Pretty much what you're saying is you want to go to Texas A&M, that's good, oh, okay. Yeah, I didn't go to Texas A&M, but it's really good. They are really good. Every Texas A&M person I've met became a Christian there and they loved it and they loved Jesus.
Speaker 2:So, that's where you go.
Speaker 1:Don't go to UT. That's a dangerous place of darkness, Although you know, maybe you're the light in the dark there.
Speaker 3:I don't think I have the grades to get in there anyways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, yeah, that's a good point. So Rice is out, Okay, yeah, but I think so honestly, though. But when you're looking at ministry, if ministry is the calling, I would, you know, a little undergrad in Bible never hurt anybody.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I definitely, if any ministry. I'd love to become a youth pastor someday. I have so much love and respect for my youth pastor right now. And um, and yeah, I definitely I know what it's like to be a teenager who either feels like unseen or unheard, and even some teenagers who have been saved but then feel like they're too young to lead, and I just just I want to be someone who can be there for them, to relate to them in their highest and lowest moments well, way to go.
Speaker 1:I am really encouraged by that. Um, wow, all right. And back to any. Any experiences growing up that were like, because usually people say like well, the father wasn't present, or uh, there was some traumatic sexual event that happened that like turned you gay, but you didn't have any of those experiences.
Speaker 3:Um, should I talk about it, oh?
Speaker 1:well, that's up to you are you okay with?
Speaker 3:it your story um, yeah, your story, yeah, sorry, yeah. So I won't get too deep into it because it takes so much longer and there's so many details to it. But I was talking earlier about how I struggled a lot with my mental health last year.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, basically, I went to a Christian retreat last year and there was a message about walls that need to be broken down in your life and making yourself feel ashamed because of things that you have gone through and keeping it a secret. Good, and I had just never felt closer to God than I did on that retreat. So I I.
Speaker 1:This was the most recent one.
Speaker 3:This was the most recent one, okay, so I grabbed one of my best friends. Oh, sorry, sorry my old one, my old one, um, sorry, my old one to like the old church.
Speaker 3:Yes, the old church. I still go to that church as youth. I just needed to get it off my chest so I grabbed um one of my best friends and I grabbed my youth pastor and I said I said, hey guys, I've never actually said this or told anyone in my whole life, but I've been sexually abused by one of my cousins since I was like five years old and I've never told anyone about it and he is a guy. So I do feel like that did influence a lot of. I do think that influenced a lot of aspects of my life and probably why I was just talking to my sister and my mom about this, that that could be a very big factor as to why I had a lot of gay desires growing up, because all I had ever known was another guy or another man and it was a man or a same age, kid it was the same age kid, Okay, which also made it so much harder to admit because I couldn't like.
Speaker 3:It was hard for me and I couldn't imagine the amount of change and impact I was about to have on this on my cousin's life. It was a family member Because, but as horrible as I felt for him, I kind of had to put my own faith first and put myself first and say I'm not going to let this sin or shame hold me down anymore and I need to tell someone, because if I don't, I don't know if it's ever going to stop. And this was after I had become a Christian.
Speaker 1:Wow, so you felt freedom through confession.
Speaker 3:Yes, well, that's powerful.
Speaker 1:That's wild. Thanks for sharing. I know that was. I was not expecting that to go that direction Like that's wild, the freedom that God has given you through that which is, I think, chase, if I can be bold here, there is a lot of people probably listening and they are holding on to shame like that.
Speaker 1:We had a couple on here. It's actually our most listened to podcast, the Websters, and they shared about how Stephen went through so much as a kid of the same sort of situation and then struggled with porn as an adult, and it was powerful how the Lord really brought that to the forefront and the power that that has had ever since. And so what happens? When guys lock that away, it affects their marriages. Even when you're like I'm repentant, I'm not going to do that, and when you have that lurking in your heart it is just to your point, your mental health. Man, I'm so grateful for that freedom.
Speaker 5:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Man, way to go. That is powerful that you shared it, but I think, more than that, I need you to know that there are 16-year-olds all over the place that have experienced something similar and they were hoping that someone had a situation like them that they could share it with, and so that becomes a really, really big deal. And so you've become an advocate for people that are stuck in darkness.
Speaker 2:Way to go. Yeah, and Jesus is the forgiver of our sins and he's also the healer of our hearts and the pain that we have, the guilt, the shame, the confusion. Like Jesus is just so good in that you know he sees everything about our lives and find rest for your soul, come to me and find healing for your heart, come to me, find forgiveness for your sins, come to me, find purpose for your life. And so just all of it is found in Jesus. And it's so amazing when Jesus finds us.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And our lostness. He comes and, rescues us, gives us new life. It was actually such an amazing, not amazing.
Speaker 3:It was actually such an amazing, not amazing. It was just a really awakening and healing season because last year, after making that confession, my family was so supportive, so loving, and they made me feel so protected.
Speaker 4:That's so awesome.
Speaker 3:They took care of it immediately. So last year was my first time ever confessing it and then after that, going into homeschool and seeing all this chaos that was going on between my family, um, because of this one thing that happened in my life, I just felt like my life was completely um ended, yeah, kind of like gone to ruin. Which was so funny because when I went to retreat again this year, the um, the whole theme came from a verse from Isaiah 64. I don't know the exact verse, but it was something. Isaiah 64, god will rebuild you from your ruins and raise up generations. And it was all about how, if you feel like you're down and ruined right now, god will not only rebuild you from that, but he will sorry, he will rebuild you even stronger and better, and he will. That is awesome.
Speaker 2:That is awesome. That's powerful man, isn't it crazy, like I? Just like I think about you know whoever the pastor was that planned that retreat and that message and that theme, you know had no idea what was going on and you know there's probably like all these other people who felt like that was just for me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there were like 500 kids there or over actually, and I just couldn't imagine how much that message had spoken to all those kids Awesome, that is so awesome.
Speaker 2:All those kids Awesome, that is so awesome.
Speaker 1:That's powerful man Way to go, Wow. So the Lord is really redeeming your life, bringing up all because, again, it's truly a blessing to have all that stuff come out, have your family so supportive. That's why I'm very blessed.
Speaker 1:When you're 16, you have family, you just assume everyone's like that or you can't imagine a family not like that you have family you just assume everyone's like that, or you can't imagine a family not like that, but just from a person that has ministered to a lot of different um people in different sets like you don't hear about one like, uh, the conviction to confront you in homosexuality, one. And then the ability for you to confess, uh, something deeply shameful from your five-year-old past that you probably kept buried in your soul for so long, where you're feeling like you have a billion pounds in your chest and then walk you through that even explodes the family as a whole. That's wild. I really want to just honor that aspect of your family for really sticking by you, for you to being so fully devoted to Jesus and living for Christ when the whole world would be bro that what you're saying is offensive. Wow, that's powerful. So I think the direction I want to kind of just take us is like back to the generation.
Speaker 1:I just feel like you have a message for so many 16-year-olds and probably you know I have probably three 16-year-olds listening to this podcast, but there's a lot more parents that are listening, and so what you've just shared is going to open up the doorway for them. So let's just talk through how did your parents approach you and maybe and maybe it was your sister as well. But how did they approach you to confront you in homosexuality Like? I know that this seems like I just told you. No, no, give me the cause.
Speaker 1:I think people are like I need to know what to say, how to you know how to do, because they weren't parented yeah and so, um, how did your, maybe with your mom, how did your mom build relationship with you enough so that she could confront you on the very thing that at one point she was like, yeah, go for it. And then now is like just kidding, like that, because that's a huge shift yeah, um.
Speaker 3:So a big regret of mine um was that I never actually talked about it with my dad, which I was um had so much does he still not know, no, he, we've had many conversations about it since that'd be really weird.
Speaker 3:But hey, dad looks at this podcast it was just that one conversation that never happened where, like, it was just my mom who told me about like, um, you shouldn't be acting on these desires which I had so much understanding for, because I do realize that that could be an awkward situation, especially for a dad and a son to have, sure, um, so it was really just my mom who had that conversation with me, and yeah, I think it was. It was um, it was just like a very hard day, cause I had also just gotten my braces on.
Speaker 1:So um yeah.
Speaker 2:And my face was in so much pain.
Speaker 3:And then my mom was like, oh, do you want to go to lunch to get like a milkshake? And I was like I was like okay, and we went and sat down and we kind of just got straight to the point where my mom kind of, is your mom a straight to the point person, the point where my mom kind of.
Speaker 2:Is your mom a straight to the point person?
Speaker 3:yes, I, I think so, um, so like, how's your milkshake cool? All right, let's talk about first corinthians six, nine um, I love that and she, my mom. She's actually here um. My mom is such a very kind and understanding person and let's bring mom.
Speaker 1:Can you come on? Would you mind coming on? We need to hear this.
Speaker 3:This is important she definitely has a way of um putting things and talking that does have your own mic yeah, the full table.
Speaker 1:You have to introduce your mom chase.
Speaker 3:Oh hi, this is my mom. Her name is Shannon.
Speaker 1:Hello, All right. So Shannon, so you, he gets his braces on. You're like you know, this is the right time this is the right time.
Speaker 5:Well, we kind of had a thing where, first of all, Chase is one of five. So, it's hard to get individualized one-on-one time with my children. So when he got his braces on and his mouth was sore, what's better than taking him for a milkshake?
Speaker 1:Right, that's a win. Love it.
Speaker 5:Yes, and the thought like it wasn't like a premeditated hey, we're going to have this conversation. It was just. Chase is a deep thinker and he likes to have conversations and I can't remember what even started the conversation. But there was a moment within the conversation that I felt like I needed to let him know that through my deepening of faith, I had led him astray. It was unintentional, because you know, when you know better, you do better, but I was now aware that Chase has always, to my knowledge, wanted a deep faith and to walk with Jesus always to my knowledge, wanted a deep faith and to walk with Jesus.
Speaker 5:And knowing that, as hard as this conversation was going to be, I had to have it. I knew it meant he was probably going to be mad at me, but Chase and I have had a lot of tough conversations and we've both gotten upset at each other, but it was always for his best interest.
Speaker 1:So Shannon, like how old was he at that, was that, how old Was I? 13?
Speaker 5:I think 14, 14.
Speaker 3:So he's 14.
Speaker 1:You're taking your 14 year old for a milkshake You're sitting down across from and you say, hey, I've led you astray. And then is he sort of like what was his? Can you remember his face? What did it look like?
Speaker 5:Disappointment, yeah, yeah, hurt, and I wasn't even sure if the words that I was saying to him were really resonating or if he was actually digesting them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And that was okay. I knew this was going to be the first conversation of. I was hoping prayerful that it was going to be the first conversation of many. Yeah, but part of my growth and my growth in my parenting is to allow my kids to, to, to hear when I've made a mistake, to acknowledge that there is no perfect parent. Way to go, and this was something I needed him to know that I had been teaching him incorrectly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, wow, I remember definitely being in a state of shock. I wasn't necessarily angry or sad, I just didn't know what to be, and I do think disappointment was probably the right way to put it is I was a little bit disappointed, um, but I guess what made me, um, what made me realize that this was the truth that I was hearing over time, was that my mom has been always the biggest supporter, not just of me, but of all my siblings and I, and she's always only one of the best for us, and she is a Christian herself and she does. She does have a gay brother. She did grow up with a similar situation and he is. My uncle is currently still living in a gay marriage. Um, so I was like, so it took me some time, but over some deep thought and some grace and understanding, I was like, wow, my mom, she cares for me. So she wouldn't have actually told me this unless she thought it was actually true, and I think that awakened something in me.
Speaker 1:This is wild. This is the craziest. I mean, like I was not expecting to have this conversation right here. This is so great. So, shannon, you said, hey, I've led you astray. Being gay is not okay. Like how did you? I mean, how did you bring that? I mean, I think this what I'm trying to get is like so it was through tears, yeah, like you're just crying and like I love you.
Speaker 5:And I told him that this is his walk, this is his life, this is his walk with the Lord as his mother. I will love him no matter what, but I care about his salvation. And so he needed to know that in order to be closer with God, to get into the kingdom of heaven. You cannot live this type of lifestyle.
Speaker 3:Wow, oh, I think what brought this up is that I think I said something about this earlier, but we were talking about me getting baptized and being fully committed to God, so I think that's what it was is that we were talking about getting baptized, and she was like before you get baptized, we got to have this conversation, wow, shannon.
Speaker 1:Way to go man, that's amazing, thank you. That like brings tears to my eyes. I can't even believe it. I'm not imagining how hard that must have been, the amount of conviction you must have felt and then being able to communicate it and just not knowing if that would explode everything, or if it would result in this, which is wild, so way to go.
Speaker 1:That is like, if you want it you know we're going to have next show is all about parenting and Shannon's going to teach us how to do it, because that's powerful, I think. I think sometimes we can just miss on, like, as a parent, you know you love your kids so much, so much they don't even even come close to understanding, cause how can they? Right, they don't know. But like this is like your whole. You're like you do anything. And then, if you've led someone astray, especially someone you love, and like now you're like ah, let me walk that back super hard, okay, so you do that, did you? Do you then come back to her chase? Do you go like hey, I want to revisit that. Or that's when you went to your sister no, that's when I went to my sister.
Speaker 3:We never really revisit. Revisited that afterwards. Yeah, I like immediate, oh I think it was that same night where I texted my sister and I was like, hey, can I come? Because they live separately from us, they had their own apartment and back at that time I would sleep over almost like every other weekend we were. We were very close, um, and still are till this day, um. But yeah, I texted her almost immediately saying, hey, would it be all right if I came and slept over at your guys' place this weekend? They said, yeah, all good. And because my mom had made me aware that, I think my sister told my mom first about this and then my mom told me.
Speaker 5:It's a family affair.
Speaker 3:What.
Speaker 5:I said it's a family affair.
Speaker 3:It was something that my whole family was a part of. So then I kind of went over to my sister and I was like was a part of um. So then I kind of went over to my sister and I was like what, um, what really made you came to the conclusion that this conversation had to be had, or that I had to be made aware of this, or why this even came up?
Speaker 1:and then they, and then she just jumps in, just yeah, like hey, we love you and yeah, she's grown in their walk.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she was kind of just reiterating. What my mom was saying is that of course she'll love me no matter what. But to truly commit to your faith takes sacrifice and surrender. Amen. Wow, this was something that I could not pursue anymore if I wanted to walk with Jesus. That's amazing.
Speaker 1:Hey, that's wild, all right, so it's so awesome.
Speaker 2:I'm just like in awe of God and and like I mean literally like this is as a pastor. You know this is a an issue, a situation, a question that comes up, you know, fairly often and there's so much fear surrounding this of like I don't want to. You know, I don't want to push anyone, I don't want to offend anyone, I don't want to, and then here we are just hearing how God is working in, like your whole family in such a powerful way.
Speaker 2:That is not, you know. It's. That is love and grace and truth all wrapped together. That is love, and grace and truth all wrapped together and you know it's not a cheap grace that's like, oh, sin's not that bad. And it's not a harsh truth of like I'll only love you if you change. And you know it is grace and truth. I love you no matter what, but you need to know the truth and this is what God's word says, and it is just so powerful and awesome.
Speaker 5:Like man, my conversation Well before I had the conversation with Chase, it was a conversation from Bree that she had with me. That was a real conversation where I mean she helped me realize that the conversation needed to be had.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow, all right, so Brie is what number child? She's my oldest.
Speaker 3:She's the oldest.
Speaker 5:And you're number.
Speaker 1:I'm four, number four.
Speaker 3:Okay, wow, Wow, but at the time I do think love all my siblings equally.
Speaker 3:But I do think that Brie and I at the time were the closest because I was the most invested we were still going to the Catholic church at the time were the closest because I was the most invested we were still going to the Catholic church at the time, I believe, or maybe we had already left, but we had just left the Catholic church and I was, and Bree and Pablo were the only ones going to their own church, separate from us. Yeah, and I was just very invested with the church that they were going to at the time and more and only grew more curious and um, I actually it's funny I just had a phone call with Brie a couple of days ago where I was saying that at the time she was just, she was always my closest friend, she was someone that I trusted more than anyone in the world and I guess that was one of the biggest reasons why it hurt hearing this come from her, but it was also what made me so comfortable going over and just asking and putting it plainly. Okay.
Speaker 1:So man love that, all right. So then, what made you want to come on the podcast? Like you know, cause we have you might be the only other 16 year old listener on our massive audience worldwide, but what made you say I want to get on the podcast to share?
Speaker 3:that Brie invited me. Oh, you're right, I forgot about that. I forgot about that. So my bad. I think it was maybe two years ago. I actually did talk about starting my own podcast because I thought it'd just be cool, and I have talked about getting more involved and wanting to share my testimony and faith in front of other kids. But I am someone who does have a bit of stage fright. I do get nervous talking in front of like other people or even just being on stage in general. So I did. I think it was like two years ago. I was so sure that I was going to start my own podcast and I just thought being behind a camera would make me so much more comfortable. And then I don't know what it was. I guess over time I just kind of forgot about it and never actually pursued it. And then and then here we are, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay Well, you heard it here first. Uh, the chase food podcast coming soon, uh no promises Wherever you listen to your podcast. It's going to be talking about being a teenager, interactions of sexuality and faith, and the culture and how to overcome the darkness.
Speaker 3:Is that where we're going? Sure, I love it.
Speaker 1:Well, man, listen, if you have any questions out there in podcast land and you would like to have Chase come back and maybe answer all of them. If you have any questions for parenting from Shannon, who's going to tell you how to do it, we'd love to answer those. You can just text us at 737-231-0605 or go to PastorPleckcom and leave a message for us there. We would love to hear from you. Any final thoughts, holland?
Speaker 2:Man. I just want to one say like God bless you guys. Thank you and Bree, way to go, way to go. Older sister, sweet daughter, shannon, like as a mom having that hard conversation and Chase, just like the courage to not only just like I don't know, go all in on Jesus and then be able to share it. I'm just like blown away by y'all's family and just want to say God bless y'all. They are encouragement to me, thank you.
Speaker 1:Anything else. You want to wrap us up with Shannon? You got anything? Final thoughts.
Speaker 5:Uh, I just want Chase to know how proud I am. Thank you, sharing your story, sharing your testimony, walking the path that you're on, powerful. You are a tool, and I'm just so excited to see how God uses you.
Speaker 4:I remember when a tool was a bad word.
Speaker 1:Sorry.
Speaker 2:In the hand of the Lord, a tool for God, you're a tool. On that note, have an awesome week of worship.
Speaker 4:You're not that kind of tool, love being a tool for the Lord.
Speaker 3:That's good. I definitely think that with patience and perseverance, anything is possible, as long as you don't limit God's power because I think that was a big factor to why everything took so long in my life is I just kept limiting God's power and kept saying, oh, this will never happen in my life. And then here I am and it definitely has, and just God really can turn everything around.
Speaker 1:That he can, and so, from our house to yours, let him turn it around. Have an awesome week of worship.