Pastor Plek's Podcast
Pastor Plek's Podcast
Shadows To Light
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379: A nameless voice, a battered past, and a purpose that won’t quit. Bruno sits with us to unpack how a jailhouse encounter with Jesus turned a prize fighter into a quiet force against trafficking from Oaxaca and Panama City to the airstrips of South Sudan. This isn’t a highlight reel built on bravado; it’s a ground-level look at the systems of exploitation, the cost to families who fight them, and the small faithful steps that move people from danger to safety.
If this conversation expanded your view of missions, trafficking, and what real courage looks like, share it with a friend, subscribe for Part Two, and text us your questions at 737-231-0605. Your voice shapes where we go next.
And welcome back to the Pastor Plex podcast. I'm your host, Pastor Plex. And with me today is a man who, well, if you can look at his face, you actually can't see him because we are what's the right word for that? Uh making sure you can't tell who he is, because he is an undercover anti-sex trafficker from across the globe. And so as our mission to reach people globally, we want to kind of give uh airtime to someone who is doing such powerful work, but not reveal who they are. Because we need to know, and America needs to know, and the world needs to know about uh what Christians do to reach those that are being uh sex trafficked, those who are being uh uh taken against their will, and especially in war-torn countries. So uh we're gonna call you Bruno because we don't talk about Brune, no. Oh, oh. So Bruno, talk to us, introduce yourself however you want, and uh talk to us about how you first became a Christian.
SPEAKER_02:Um so nice to meet you. My name again. Well well. Um I first became a Christian. It's funny, um, through domestic violence. Oh, nice. Uh, me and my wife Ash, uh, we had a fallout one night. Um, went to jail, and a pastor came to visit me while I was there and gave me the book Wild at Heart.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um before that I had been in a cage. I my my past, I was like a manly man, right? I was into a lot of that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_01:But it it like man, are you talking about cage fighting? Is that what you're about to say? Yeah. As one does.
SPEAKER_02:Um so uh but he gave me this book, Wild at Heart, and I started to read it and recognize myself and a lot of that. That was just really insecure. And and everything that I had done, which is a bunch of cool manly stuff, really was just to show to prove to myself and everyone else, hey, I'm a man. Um, but in reality, Jesus was the man, and and there's really no one more manly than him, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_01:All right, so talk to me about what your childhood was like. Let's go back to that.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, uh, so um my my dad was an immigrant and he he met my mom in the fields, like seven times. Like migrant worker type thing. Yeah, yeah, apparently like seven times because I've got seven brothers. So um and they were never married. They ended up splitting up when I was three. So my old man was from Mexico. He ended up uh getting deported and he got back in the U.S. because he joined the army.
SPEAKER_01:Nice.
SPEAKER_02:Um, became a citizen. He lives in Michigan. My mom also lives in Michigan, and I grew up there um from a long time.
SPEAKER_00:So dad's Mexican mom is German. German Hamburg, actually. Okay, like actually German German. German German, very German.
SPEAKER_02:And they met in uh so they the German side of the family owns a bunch of fields and vineyards and horses up in northern Michigan. Huh. And my my dad worked the fields. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Way to go. Yeah, that's that's wild.
SPEAKER_02:Married up, and then um, so they split, and I from that point it's very just traditional drinking, fighting, they didn't work out. My old man was a really mean Mexican. Did you grow up with him, though? I mean, like who'd you live with? So um when they split, me and my brothers stayed with my dad because my mom just kind of disappeared. We heard that she ran away and like she didn't want nothing to do with us. It turns out my dad grabbed us and he moved. And the migrant community has a way of moving where you don't know where they're moving to. Yeah. Um, and we were part of that.
SPEAKER_01:Uh so where did you go? I mean, like, this is crazier than the anti-sex driving. Keep going. Like, you're you're on the run as like how old?
SPEAKER_02:Uh so she left, I think, when I was three, and we ended up reuniting when I was eight. Um, through one of my sisters, actually. And uh, she had gotten a hold of one of my sisters, and my sister was like, You ran away. And she's like, I've been looking for the kids for years. We re we ended up connecting, and I ended up going with her. Out of all of us, I was the only one that went with her, so yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so growing up, did you have a stepdad?
SPEAKER_02:Ish. Um, there was a man named Hobby. Um, really cool dude. This is crazy too. Um, Hobby was this bigger than life character. I think he was like 6'3, but to a little kid, that's like five foot a million. Yeah. Um, and he was really my mom was crazy and he was crazy. And uh she ended up going to prison for stabbing him in the arm. Not prison, but I think jail. Yeah, sure. She did some time. Yeah. Um, and apparently, I've just recently learned she did you watch him stab her or her stab him and me? No, I was I don't know where I was. School. No, I think I was with my dad or something. Okay. I I don't really remember a lot of my young growing up very well. Um, and actually from there I ended up moving with my grandma and grandpa, and they raised me for a long time. The German ones or the Mexicans? The German ones.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Do you speak German? Yeah, no. Ah, yeah, that's like Deutsch. Yeah, I don't spread into Deutsch. But um, yeah, and that's kind of like so my childhood was moving around, moving around. Um, just a lot of that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So a lot of Machschnell, a lot of, you know, hurry up, get it done.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we we definitely kept stuff in line with each other, you know. We weren't allowed to have stuff ugly and uh unorganized. Um, I had issues, uh, did fight a lot. Uh, ended up getting put into the military school for Brighton. In Brighton, it was like either go to Foster or go to this Brighton Academy, uh, which is like a young boot camp military school. And I think they put me in there when I was 13.
SPEAKER_01:How'd you do?
SPEAKER_02:Pretty freaking great. Yeah, yeah, it was amazing. Um, ended up becoming a prize fighter because it's that's just what I did. I fought. And when I was young, I became a prize fighter, joined the Navy for a little bit, went out to be a corpsman. I got injured. Um fighting? No. Uh actually, so there's the confidence course. Yeah. And my first injury was running the confidence course out in Chicago, and then we were cleared to go, and then I drew a green side billet, so I went to go through uh the FMF school with the field battalion, all that jazz. I got injured again, finished that, and then I got injured one more time and just couldn't do it. I was prone to injuries. Um, so then I got out, and that's kind of my heart has always been there because my dad was my dad taught us all hey, fight for this country because where we came from wasn't good. So stay here, fight for this country. This is a great country.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and that was largely my childhood. And and during that time is when I met my wife. I met her before I think I was like 17 when I met her.
SPEAKER_01:So you came from a high trauma, high crazy background. Kind of went to the got the structure at uh military school. Yeah. Then you graduate military school, you go to the Navy, more structure. Then you get out of the Navy, and then you meet your wife.
SPEAKER_02:So I met her before I went, actually. Um, in between there, I went to a school, an alternative school to get my degree or diploma. Yep. And I met her there. I remember walking through the hallway. She had this blue shirt, said Brazil. She was beautiful. I remember that moment. It was like, it was gorgeous.
SPEAKER_01:And you're like, you're the one for me. Okay, so then were you a Christian at the no, you're not a Christian at this point. Was she a Christian?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, she was dating you, it's probably not.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, she wasn't. She was like your average American. Yeah, I'm a Christian.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, all right. So then how so how did you end up in jail?
SPEAKER_02:Um, so this is after the the Navy and all that, and I was drinking, I was fighting, and uh came home, and we had a child, Heather and I, or Ash and I, Heather. Well, and um so uh Mila's crying and I freaked out, and I was like, Stop her from crying, stop her from crying because it hurt me somehow. Uh and Heather was like, No, and I I made a mistake, uh, and I went to jail, and then it was in that jail that the pastor met me.
SPEAKER_01:Uh and then so you drilled your wife right there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I in my head, I'm pretty sure I could be lying about this, I think. Um, I was trying to hit the wall just to let out steam. Yeah, to be like, oh, it's too much. I have to hit something. And um, yeah, so I ended up hitting Heather though. Oh gosh. And um, we were so we almost divorced right then and there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um not Christian, just you're like angry, a fighter, have a baby, drilled your wife in the face. Yeah. Okay, so all right, so then you you go to the jail, the guy comes. How did how did he know this was he visiting you, or is it just he's just randomly visits anybody?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, he's a pastor. He went to the jail all the time to visit everybody and talk about Jesus. Wow. And uh had nothing better to do. I was like, hey, you want to play some chess? And he's like, Yeah, sure, let's play some chess to talk about Jesus. Uh he ended up forming a relationship with me and gave me that book, Wild at Heart, by John Eldridge.
SPEAKER_01:Nice.
SPEAKER_02:And I got when I got out of jail, I had one last fight, and um, Shamar Bailey. The dude beat me up so bad. And um, but after that, I took in um I took the advice of Eldridge, which is like go find yourself a wild place and climb a mountain and talk to God. And I was like, God, if you're real, then do something because I don't want to be around anymore. Like, I've my life's been a pretty rough roll of dice. Um, and that's where I met the Lord. It was like a montage. Like I remember super clear. I was like, you know, where are you? And he's and it was like, I never left you. And I had this montage of all these sucky things in my life that had happened, but how somehow I knew that he was protecting me. And he was like, You left me. And then I remember all the times when I used to punch people being like, Where's your God now? You know, and I used to make fun of Christians, and I just I was really angry at the Lord. Um, I would say that I was an atheist, but in reality, when I look back, it's not that I didn't believe, it's that I was just really angry. Um, but and that's where I became a Christian right then and there. Uh I repented. I quit fighting, started studying the Bible, quit doing everything wrong that I was doing. Uh I like I said, I had that one more fight. No, I had one more fight after that because that's when uh Heather came back and was like, she I was like, hey, here's my retirement fight, and we ended up shacking up that night. And from there, um, she was like, she said, uh, you were so vulnerable that I knew that you had changed, but it was because if you ask her, there was pre-fight, and when you're in the fight, you go into this like hotel or stuff, and everyone's getting ready and all that. And I was just sitting there reading the Bible. I was like, uh, I'm just here for the money. But in reality, I just want to know Jesus. Um, and that's how I became a Christian. And and somehow Heather came home and uh from there we flipped a flipped a coin and moved to Austin, Texas. Uh started going to church and get discipled there. Wow. Yeah. And that's that's literally how it the Christian thing came in.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So where were you living in Austin? Mm-hmm. Where at? Like right?
SPEAKER_02:Uh Anderson Mill and Pond Springs.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay, yeah. Like right around the area. Okay. So so you're you're and how how many years ago was that?
SPEAKER_02:It was 2008 in June.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so then, so you're living here, you got one kid at the time or two?
SPEAKER_02:We had one at that time. Um, and then we had another child here in Austin. Um, and from there we had heard about missionary work, and I was on fire. You know how you are when you first hear about Jesus. You want to tell everybody. Um, and we heard about a group called YWAM. And so our second was born, and we moved, she was like four months old when we moved down to Oaxaca.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And as missionaries didn't have to be.
SPEAKER_01:Then that's Mexico.
SPEAKER_02:Yep, yep, southern Mexico, just above Guatemala, Guatemala, Chiapas, Oaxaca.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Um, did a DTS there, joined YWAM, and started doing uh work with the indigenous and the unreached out in the jungles out there.
SPEAKER_01:So what does that mean?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um, so let's see, in YWAM, you do six months or three months of like class work, and then you do three months of practical. Okay. And their practical was in the jungles. Just we moved in with a Christian tribe, and a lot of the other tribes are unreached. And we would go there and we would help them build stuff and try to talk with them about Jesus and take care of and take care of needs.
SPEAKER_00:And what part of the world is this? That's in Oaxaca. That's Mexico.
SPEAKER_02:That's in Mexico.
SPEAKER_01:And where is that? Is that like you how far from Mexico City? Is that like super far? Was like Yucatan? How far from like somewhere I would know?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um, so some people might know Puerto Escondido. Puerto Escondido is in Oaxaca, and then um it's where the where the peninsula is. Yeah. Okay, so how about this? It's one state above Guatemala.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, got it.
SPEAKER_02:So it's way south. Yeah, it's in the south.
SPEAKER_01:It's like the jungly part where the yep, like you're pretty much Central America.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Gotcha. Um, and that was where our eyes were kind of sort of open to the whole uh the the cartel buying stuff. Like they would protect these people, and all the indigenous would have their fields. They would grow drugs and stuff, and the cartel would be like, hey, we'll give you money if you grow drugs for us. But there was also like a hidden part of that, which we didn't recognize at the time, but that's the the trick.
SPEAKER_01:Your your sort of introduction to human trafficking, human trafficking was you're re with this unreached people group, and they make deals with the the cartels, probably not knowing what the cartels do. They're just like, hey, grow this crop, sell it to us, we'll pay you handsomely for it. They're like, sweet. They get that and they start rolling the the drugs to the U.S. or down south or all over. Uh most of it goes to the U.S. All right. So they're they're sending it to the U.S. And then at what point did you find out about human trafficking?
SPEAKER_02:Uh so okay, so the clearest part, and I won't forget, uh, I've actually got a picture of the little girl. Um, we were sitting in the downtown square in Oaxaca City, and we were sitting there with our little girls playing, and we're watching this other little girl, and she had like burn marks all over her. And I was I remember saying to my wife, I was like, Hey, what do you think happened? Like, I don't know. And then um we saw her collecting money and all this, and then we were just watching. Um, and then we saw her do like hand gestures, and I was someone else hand gesture, hand gesture, and I remember saying, 'Did you see that?' And she goes, 'I think I did.' And we sat back and we just watched and just watched, and we were like, 'Someone's like, she's speaking with hand code to somebody somewhere,' and that was our introduction. We were like, 'This girl's being forced,' or something. Maybe she's just doing it for her family. But that was our introduction the first time, and then we spoke with the leaders and said, Hey, this is what we saw. What's that about? And he was said, uh, a lot of the children are in orphanages, and people buy the children, they'll break their fingers and burn them and they'll put them on the streets, and they look like the children are really poor and hurt because they are, and they get a lot more money than just your average child who's in need.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. That's sad. Okay. So then you and your wife are like, we gotta do something, or like, you already are there, you're already doing something.
SPEAKER_02:We we actually didn't do anything about the trafficking at that point. We just sat and in a way, we were like, Mary, we tucked it away in our heart and was like, Oh, well, this is awkward. This is that's not cool. We're here to work with the indigenous folks. Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so so you're working with the indigenous folks, you come back to Austin, you come, what will happen?
SPEAKER_02:Um, so when we were there, we actually had a son. Yep, and uh he got sick because of sickness. Wow, a sickness rolled through the the city, and our son didn't make it. Um, and that was really, really hard.
SPEAKER_01:How old was he?
SPEAKER_00:Uh he was one. So wait, hold on, you had a one-year-old son that died. Yeah. And um What was his name? Architels.
SPEAKER_02:We called him Nephtali because uh it's funny, it's so prophetic in a way. Uh, because you remember that he they named him that minute was like my wrestling. Yeah, right. And uh because it was a hard pregnancy, it was hard all over the place. Um, but that happened and we were shook, so we moved to the you we moved back home.
SPEAKER_01:And uh so you were in you were in Mexico, have a have a one-year-old that dies. You come back to Austin and you recover.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yep. We ended up moving, nope, not to Austin. We moved to Gillette and Georgia, uh Wyoming. Wyoming. Yep, and I was started working in the coal mines.
SPEAKER_00:You start you started working in the coal mines.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. Like, how did you you know, you're like, you know, from missionary to coal miner.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, works work is work, doesn't really matter. It pays well. Um, and while we were there, we we got a lot of health care, not health care, but like member care, like working on just processing through stuff. Actually, this is probably I'm glad we brought this up. This is actually how we got into trafficking, anti-trafficking. Um so we were there working through everything and we started doing this organization. Um, I'm gonna stop report.
SPEAKER_01:You had a one-year-old son die. How did you like it? I mean, you come back to the states, you move to Wyoming, you start working in a coal mine. How did you process the fact that you just had your son who was one die? Uh, how many kids did you have at this point? Two. It just him and your daughter.
SPEAKER_02:No, we had uh my oldest daughter, my second daughter, and then we had a son.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And so you you're the how did your daughters take that? I mean, how did just like how did that how did you guys process that?
SPEAKER_02:So my oldest daughter, it was difficult. It was difficult for all of us, right? It shook our faith, it shook a lot of stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Like, how did you I mean, like when you think about death of a son, you think, okay, God, this is a sickness, you could have healed him. What how talk walk me through how you processed that?
SPEAKER_02:So uh the the hardest part, I would say, and Heather, Heather and I, this is the hardest part for us, is like, it's our fault. If we wouldn't have been in Oaxaca, he wouldn't have got sick. And that was the big thing is like, Lord, did we is this because we weren't listening? Or is this because you know, it's and we carried that for a bit. I mean, like, he died because we were there. Like, this wouldn't have happened if we were in the US. And and that's that's a lot of guilt to carry. Uh, but thank goodness we have really good, we had a really good church and team that walked us through that. And then there's a bunch of other missionaries there, and they were walking us through like, look, here's here's how to deal with guilt. Here's what the Lord says. Maybe that was your fault. But in all in in reality, like things are gonna happen, you know, and the Lord is good. Romans 8.28. Uh, you know, and no, it doesn't really matter.
SPEAKER_01:For those of you who don't know that, Romans 8.20 is it's all things work for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose. So you're like, this is for good.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that was sucky because I don't, I think that's not the thing someone wants to hear. But you know, we had so many people come at it from so many directions and we went through counseling. Um, people were like, well, maybe your guys' life would have been worse if you stayed there, or maybe this or maybe that, or maybe the other.
SPEAKER_01:And yeah, I think that for me, the verse that sticks out, and I and I kind of go to this one a ton, and it's in from Matthew 10, I think it's uh 28, 29. Uh, a sparrow doesn't fall to the ground apart from your father's will. Meaning if God is in charge of the lifespan of birds, he's more even more in charge of the lifespan of humans. And so that's a predetermined thing. That doesn't res that doesn't take away any of the responsibility of like raising kids and doing the right thing. However, like if you if you're following the Lord to Mexico, um, you know, God could save your child. To Mexico as easily as he could save your kid in America. And and the same thing in Iraq when I when I'd lose soldiers and I was like, should I send him in the cemetery? Should I not send them in the cemetery? I know that it's a dangerous place, but you know, you're just wrestling with all the decisions. And so for you, was there a verse that spoke to you? Was there a uh or it was or just the process of God's people, the Holy Spirit working, God's word working, all three of those things kind of healing you.
SPEAKER_02:There, I I wouldn't say there's a specific verse, but what did it the most was just the community aspect. You know, God's people came through in a really strong way.
SPEAKER_01:And I think the what's important to hear that, like I don't care what struggle you're going through, do not isolate. Yes, because the healing happens with people, God's people. Okay, sorry. No, no, that's I feel like I mean that's like you drop that bomb, and for you, you probably have, you know, of course. And then I had a son died and everyone's like, so uh yeah. So you your son passes, you're in Wyoming, you're working the coal mine, you're you're getting healing, you're involved in a good solid church there, people are loving on you, and you're thinking, I'm you know, for me, I'd be like, okay, I guess we're done. I'm a coal miner now. Uh, but you were thinking I'm gonna go back to the mission field.
SPEAKER_02:So we actually started uh uh an event that's still going on today. Um coal miners make good money, right?
SPEAKER_01:Uh I you know when I think about coal mining, I really don't think about good money. I think of sooty faces and guys dying of some lung disease.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah, it's not how it is anymore. Now, so over there it's strip mining, so we weren't even in the hole.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay, got it. Yeah. I was driving. I think of a canary, and you're like, oh, the canary's dead, we're screwed.
SPEAKER_02:That's all I can think of. No, it's it's cool. You get to drive huge Twonka trucks and in circles all night long, get paid for it.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um so uh we ended up starting so something called the Picnic in the Park. Oh, nice. And um, it was an evangelistic event, and it still goes on today where uh we were able to and our our heart never left wanting people to see who Jesus is. Yeah. Uh it's it was really hard, and there was like times when we were super angry, but somehow that never stopped.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And and so we did that. We stayed there until we had our our next child, uh our my youngest daughter. Um, and then I was like, we're done, and I got that taken care of. Um and then uh from there we just started dreaming again, and people started calling us, like, hey, you know, are you guys interested in going on the mission field? And oh no, let me go back. Yeah. Okay. So this is how we got into the anti-trafficking. One night when I was working, somebody called my wife and was like, Hey, baby, I'm in spearfish. You want to go over here? And she's like, and then and then she, I guess she said no, and she told me about it the next day. And then a couple days later, she got a text and her phone was next to me. And I looked, I was like, So what's this about? She's like, I don't even know what's going on. So we searched her number, and there was a website called Backpage. I think it was Backpage. Um, and there was a prostitute who gave out my wife's number in Spearfish. So when you live in a coal mining community, in an oil field community, there's a lot of prostitution. Oh wow. And um, we didn't consider that, and all of a sudden, all of these men started calling my wife. And we looked up the number, we saw the this and the that. And we reached out to YWAM, and there's something called Cowboys with a mission. And they said they're really big into anti-trafficking, and Gillette, Wyoming is a hub for human trafficking and prostitution. And so we started looking into that. We got connected, and that's actually the first time we started working in anti-trafficking, just by what we did there was we would go on backpage. Well, Heatherwood, because the girls are all yeah, you know, and that's not good for me to do. Um so she would go there and she'd just report everybody all the time, and she'd police Craigslist and report, report, report. Um, and that's how we got involved with anti-trafficking.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so then you're that's in the U.S.
SPEAKER_02:That was in yes.
SPEAKER_01:Or it was it in Wyoming? Wyoming. Okay, so then you're like, okay, we we can make this a ministry. I mean, like, how did you think? I know I'll do a ministry. I mean, you're coal mining, you're making good money. Yeah, you're being a functional family, you're regrieving the death of your son, you're moving life forward, and this thing falls into your lap. You start to walk down the path of like, how can I help these girls? You get the police involved, you know, that might be a good time to be like, hey, we did our thing. We are good Samaritans. But the Lord calls you to Argentina, actually.
SPEAKER_00:Of course, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And um, so we were like, you know. I don't know if you realize your life is more an adventure than anybody I know. You don't typically people go, and then I just was in Wyoming coal mining, and then I just was in Argentina. Well, what did you do? How'd you get to Argentina? We drove. Wait, wait, you drove from Wyoming through Mexico, down to Guatemala, down to Yeah, there's actually a highway called the Pan American Highway.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And we drove that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And was there a plan?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we wanted to take the uh so YWAM has a university. Got it, and they have counseling. Yep. And the cheapest school was in Argentina.
SPEAKER_01:All right, so did your wife speak Spanish? Yeah. Okay, so you both are Spanish speakers. Yeah. Yep. Okay. So you make your way down to Argentina.
SPEAKER_02:Well, well, that's actually part of the story, is so because we were in anti-trafficking, we there are bases, there are YWAM bases in every state of Mexico day near, and country for the moment. So we drove down and then we arrived in the first base, which was in like uh what is that across the Monterrey?
SPEAKER_01:Is that Monterey in Mexico?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Is that the very first state there? Yeah. All right. So we were there, and there's a YWAM base there, and we asked them about anti-trafficking. We're like, Do you guys have a problem with this? And they said, Yeah. We're like, hey, you know, how can we help? And so we started there. And we started watching, and this is one of the reasons why I'm so against illegal immigration, right? Right. Um, we started watching parents giving their kids up to these coyotes so that way they could have a better future in the United States.
SPEAKER_01:But they were actually being But they were being trafficked. I mean, trafficked is just moving them, but they're being sex traffic, trafficked to a well prostitution.
SPEAKER_02:We don't know. I mean, there so also here, something that's really big here is labor. They take the little kids and they use them for labor in working in the fields, they use them working in hotel rooms, they use them as uh like these are my kids, so now I get extra taxes, you know, tax returns from them, and they don't treat them well. And then a lot of the women, a lot of the little girls are, of course, right? They fall into the sex trafficking. Wow. Um, but we did that and we we went to uh every we would work in a YWAN base until it got kind of hot because after you start doing that, people get angry and you um and then we would move to the next state and then to the next state and the next state. And then where we kind of really got very much invested was in Panama, uh, because we had to ship our vehicle. You can't you can't cross the Darien Gap. Darian Gap is in between Panama and Colombia, where that little uh you have to ship your vehicle over there because there's uh the Fark and all of these What is a FARC? The FARC are these uh guerrilla warfare fighters, of course, and they hold on.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, this is where like when you said, Yeah, my story's kind of boring, and nobody really uh I'm like you're talking about terms no like you might as well have just said, like, I'm on a sci-fi space station meeting the FARC, and that's like uh, you know, like so all right, so the FARC, you're you're you know, you're like down in Darien National Park area of uh of like what Costa Rica or Panama City. You're you know, you're going to Costa Rica, then you're in Panama, down to Panama City, and then you're entering to Colombia and you have to get past the FARC, which is what's like give me the FARC.
SPEAKER_02:All right, so we we that it's okay, so that part sounds more impressive than it is. Um we bypass those guys because you're not allowed to drive through there because it's dangerous. So you put a fair your vehicle on ferry or something? Yeah, so you you go over in Panama and you have to ship your vehicle to Columbia.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02:Um, but there was there was like it somehow got caught up, and we stayed in a place because it was Uber cheap in Panama City called the Backpacker Inn. And this is so this is a kind of a crazy this is this is one of the crazier stories. So the backpacker in turned out to be like a brothel. Of course, but the rooms were cheap, and it was me and my three daughters and my wife, and we're like, oh God thank you. Wow, we are in this hub for human trafficking, like there are cold. So do your daughters know what's happening? So how old are they at this time? I would say Hadas was probably three or four. Um, and each one of my girls was three years after that. So so six or seven, and then nine or ten.
SPEAKER_01:Was your wife just like, oh, my husband was a prize fighter, I feel no fear, or like she's just a killer herself.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, like, give me the we um I think probably the first one. She said she always felt secure with me. Yeah, we actually did get in this fight where someone tried to rob us in Nicaragua.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Okay, tell me what happened. Um, I was so I was just north of Costa Rica, you just came through Honduras, but like through take goosey golpe or something, and as you're going down, you you cross the border and uh so we got in a hotel.
SPEAKER_02:We were staying in a hotel and I had to walk the dog. Uh so I let the dog out of the van because they wouldn't let they wouldn't let him in the hotel. And I was talking with this guy, we're all chit-chatting, he's nice, and I'm like, Jesus loves you. And I put the dog in the car and he sticks me. Whack. And he's like, I don't know, he starts yelling, and I'm like, oh, well that unfortunately for him, I like to fight too. And uh, so I went and I, you know, I don't remember what happened, but I remember that another guy came around. This is actually nuts too. Another guy came around the back of the van and I came out on top. I won the fight really well. Um, the police ended up coming and I got in trouble. And they wanted to search the vehicle, and we had extra funds under our seat, and the police stole our funds. Of course they did. And we didn't know about that until we hit like Panama, and we were like, well, let's pay for this. And we're like, go under the seat and get the stuff. And we're like, where is it? And I'm like, oh, that must have been why, because the police were really quick to be like, You're in trouble, you're in trouble, you're gonna go to jail, this, that, and the other. And then, oh, you're fine, go ahead and leave. And I was like, Oh, thank goodness.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you just paid yourself off.
SPEAKER_00:Like, I like what how much we're talking? Uh, like nine hundred dollars. Okay. Which is so not like thousands, but like but a lot. Right, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Like that's probably that could that could feed you for a month.
SPEAKER_00:It could feed, it could, it could you it could have got us into South America.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so you're you get through Nicaragua after now. Did you put the guy in the hospital? What'd you do to the dude that oh no?
SPEAKER_02:Uh they were still down. The one guy was down pretty hard.
SPEAKER_01:Uh you smash his head against the the uh the asphalt, yeah. Of course. Foot stomp. Yeah. Foot stomp. Yeah, I mean, you do gotta do what you gotta do. Okay, so you you smack take that guy out, he learns not to rob, uh, and then you go on your merry way. Yeah. Okay, so you, your and your wife, you're heading down to the brothel in Columbia.
SPEAKER_02:So we end up in Columbia. We were that's in Panama City. Okay, sorry. Um, so we were we were at there, and it was uh I I sincerely what cemented the rest of everything that we did. Uh I remember my my oldest daughter had a she goes, Dad, why is she doing what she's doing? Because we were really friendly with all the girls.
SPEAKER_00:Like, why is she selling herself for sex?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, why is she wearing? Well, she what she actually said, Dad, why is she wearing that? And I said, uh, go and ask her, darling. And uh she went up to her and she says, you know.
SPEAKER_01:And your and your daughter speaks Spanish.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone, everyone speaks Spanish. Okay. And uh she's like, she's like, you know, my dad says you shouldn't dress like that. And uh, and this girl looks at her and it was amazing. She started crying and she's like, Mija. You know, she's like, Don't do this. She's like, I don't dress like this. And she kind of like got ashamed, and she told her, Look, I don't want to do this, and I don't this and that. And that right there cemented it for us. We're like, you don't want to do this. I know of a safe house over here. We can get you out of here, but you can't tell anybody. And she actually took us up on the offer. Wow. Um, and that was probably the first person that we got out of the trade.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so how did you where did you take her?
SPEAKER_02:Uh so I can't say.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, uh, you you took her somewhere out of Columbia?
SPEAKER_00:Uh again, it was in Panama, but we took Oh, sorry, you took her took it in Panama to a different place.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, out of Panama City. Um, to a place where there's a mission organization that has safe houses around. And we took her to one of the well did it give her like a new identity or whatever. Yeah, they did. They so what they do is they they they took her, they got her, and then they teach her, they take her to school, they teach her a trade, they work with there's a lot of doctors because uh when you get out of that, there's a lot of disease involved and stress, and so doctors and um so trafficking is interesting because uh I'm not sure what people think about trafficking, but there's there are a lot of different sides of it. There's uh law enforcement, which we you almost always, always, always work with law enforcement. Right. There's the investigation team, there's a cyber team, and then there's the there's the survivor care. Okay, right? Um and each one of those are super duper duper important, and um, so we got her to the survivor care aspect of it, right? Uh yeah. And but but it was there that we knew like this is what we're gonna do for the we actually we prayed this prayer that was like, Lord, if there's a place where this is going on and you don't have someone to go, send me. And we must have been reading Isaiah or something.
SPEAKER_03:Nice.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and and from there on that's kind of like what we did.
SPEAKER_01:All right, so you you you go, you that was in Panama City, you go down to Columbia, yeah, do it again there. Yeah, yep. So like you just went to Y Wham base after Y Wam base and be like, hey, we do this too, and we're on the team. And like who was supporting you?
SPEAKER_02:Like, how did you have food? Yeah, so the church supports missionaries. Uh so what happens, people out there in in podcast land, um, is you tithe and that tithe goes to the church, and the church supports mission. I mean, of course there are bills, but that money goes to support missionaries, and that's how we were able to do that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so how were you able to share Christ in those times? Or was that hard because they were kind of already Catholic?
SPEAKER_02:Or no, not at all. It was really easy. Um, we would go out there to the girls in the street and I'd come up with a coffee and be like, Hey, here you go. How you doing tonight? And she'd be like, I'm good. Well, you want some of this? You want some of this? I'm like, you know, you're beautiful, I appreciate that, but I want your soul. And they'd be like, Oh, that's scary. I'd be like, Yeah, but it's not. You know, Jesus loves your soul, and you're so much more than this. And we would just create relationships. Actually, there was a time when I was walking down the street, and this one girl, she started yelling, uh Grosarias. What's that word? Groseries, uh vulgarities, vulgarities, okay. That's nice words. She's like, uh, hey baby, come on over here. You want some of this, and blah, blah, blah. And her friend walked up to she's like, No, Mihan, no, no, not her. Not no, not him. Don't do it with him. He's our friend.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And I walked over there, I was like, No, I'm sorry, I don't want that. Would you like some coffee? Are you hungry? You know, uh what I don't have silver and gold, but I got some Jesus. Yeah, yeah. You know, um, and that's how we did that. And we would let always let him know, be like, hey, we love you, we this so you'd be the one interacting. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And what about your wife? What would she do?
SPEAKER_02:She's more of the survivor care thing. Okay. Um, and this is before we knew how anti-trafficking worked, right? We didn't realize that you're supposed to be working with law enforcement and that there's this.
SPEAKER_01:We were just like we were just like on the streets, baby, like vigilante evangelism, saving people.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Anti-trafficking Batmans. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? All right, I love it. And uh, and that's kind of what we did, and we would go out there and we'd talk with them and this and that. And that's why we had to leave so many states so fast because we were not doing it. We would start, people would meet us and threaten us, or we'd find our tires be slashed. Yeah. And then we had to leave the country.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so you get down to Colombia, and then you're down to what Peru, then Bolivia, and then eventually Paraguay, then to Argentina. Well, how do you like tell me how like this happens? Like, how'd you eventually get down to Argentina? And then what happened in Argentina?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so um, we actually in Colombia, we picked up two Colombians, uh, also YWAMers, and they were like, Hey, can you just take us to Argentina? And we're like, of course. At one point, we had like nine people in the van and a dog, and it's way too much, but you know, Jesus, so you do things that you normally wouldn't. Um, but we literally just went from base to base, being like, hey, we'll sit out in public and we'll monitor and we'll look and try to find as much of this prostitution stuff as we can until you know we think it's uh not a good idea, and then we'll move to the next country. And then as that happened, they started like through the network, they started knowing like, hey, there's some people coming, get yourselves ready, they're coming over there to work in that country and that country. And then we ended in Argentina, where we did our school for biblical counseling.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so kind of like, hey, we're going to this biblical counseling school. On the way there, let's knock out some missionary work. Yeah. Okay. So you you're saving people, people are coming to Christ, they're leaving their lives of being sex trafficked and being abused. And you and your wife and your daughters are like, we are moving the kingdom forward.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So then you're in Argentina, you go to school for counseling, it's in Spanish. And then then you're like, We are now gonna go where?
SPEAKER_02:Uh so we actually did two schools. We lived in Argentina for an extended period of time, but we did anti-trafficking um, because that was when um the Olympics went to Brazil.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, right, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And of the Olympics brings a lot of that around. So yeah. We worked we worked the Olympics.
SPEAKER_01:So you went to Brazil.
SPEAKER_00:Did you learn Portuguese? Or did you know Portland and know enough? We speak portanol, which is like Spanglish.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, because so there's a saying, right? Uh uh Portuguese español mala blah, which just means Portuguese is just Portuguese. Um, so we can get along. And so we were there and doing that, and then we had a call while we were working. No, we met a member who was like, Hey, um are you aware of what's going on in Africa? And we're like, no, no, tell me about it. I'm down. And they said, Oh, there's a civil war in Sudan. Wow. And we're like, oh, well, let's do it. And so we shipped our van from Argentina to Florida, uh, went back to the US to do some uh some counseling that we really needed. Um, and then within eight months, we were back in, we were in Africa. We live, we we first moved to Uganda to figure out how are we gonna move our family into Sudan and South Sudan, and then we decided that's probably not a good idea.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I have a friend of mine that is uh he ministers the Sudanese army, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Uh, and it's wild. It is, yeah. And so actually, you know the machine gun preacher guy? Yeah, he's not far from where we live. We got to meet and we talked, and we yeah, here's some crazy. That's a great movie, by the way. Yeah. Oh, geez.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, all right. So, all right, so you're you now are in Africa. Uh you're in Uganda, speaking Swahili.
SPEAKER_02:Uh uh nope, so Uganda, they speak Luganda, which is a Another funny story. We when they told us we were gonna go there, we learned Luganda, which is the national language outside of English. Yep. Turns out the area where we were moving to speaks Lugbar, they don't even speak Luganda. So we spent like eight months learning the wrong language.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but um, you know, if I'm a new fiddle, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It just means can I have five pieces of bread? Nice. So you get to Uganda. So you're not like on Lake Victoria, are you?
SPEAKER_02:No, no, we were up there on the border of South Sudan.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, yeah. So that like the the Victoria, just my buddies were uh there, and they that's where they could speak Swahili because it connects Tanzania and Kenya.
SPEAKER_02:All the military, all the military, uh they all speak Swahili.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, okay. Like that's East Africa.
SPEAKER_00:East Africa, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so you now you're in Uganda. You're you're thinking about how am I gonna get into South Sudan and how am I gonna be a part. Are you are you are you carrying weapons at this point?
SPEAKER_02:So that's the introduction to all of that. Um, we show up there and we're like, hey, we're anti-traffickers. And people are like, no, not really. Not here. Yeah. And um, so then I started meeting um a bunch of people uh and in that field, there's a lot of ex-military. Um, and we bonded over my brief time in the Navy, and um they sent me back home to do some training.
SPEAKER_01:Then we went Wait, wait, you alone home or you as the fam home? Me alone home. So the re your wife and your kids are hanging out in Uganda, whether you're going back for a two-week course on firearms training or what?
SPEAKER_02:It was actually a two-month course on um the firearms interrogation and all of this different stuff. But my but my wife and kids were back with YWAM doing mission work there. Oh which in hindsight was the beginning of a bad thing. Why? I shouldn't have left him behind. Okay, just it was the beginning of a precedent set that eventually probably tore us apart.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Why so? Why you why you say that? Because I'm divorced now.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, right, right, right. But like because you I mean, like that was all part of the mission, right? So I thought it was you know, guys also get deployed in the military for 12 months. So what made your redeployment for two months different? What was the part that that you feel like was not healthy?
SPEAKER_02:Um, I think it wasn't healthy because roles were pushed on her that shouldn't have been. Uh-huh. And then slowly, slowly, slowly we started working different roles in different roles.
SPEAKER_01:And that's and reintegration created huge, huge usually creates huge crisis.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and and it all culminated to the time when we were in Ukraine, right? Um, we had completely different ministries in Ukraine where she was uh doing one thing, I was doing another, and it was okay because slowly from that time in Uganda, we started separating and running different ministries. Yeah, got it. But it it it meshed really well until later on when it didn't.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so you're still in Uganda. You get do you ever get to South Sudan? Yeah. Okay, and you start doing what there?
SPEAKER_02:Uh so I I was attached to a team because I was medically trained and I my medical training was pretty good. Um, and I I how would I say this? So the girls would stay on this side, and I was attached to a unit that was doing extractions. And we would fly over there and do extractions, and there were three levels.
SPEAKER_01:We say fly over helicopter, small airplanes. Were you jumping in? Were you fast roping? What were you doing?
SPEAKER_02:We were we so the planes would come and they would touch down, and there would be a security perimeter. There were three levels there's an outer security perimeter, an inner security perimeter, and then there's the people on the plane getting the kids onto these helicopters, and then the helicopter would take off, and then a secondary the convoy would come in, and these guys would all slowly come back onto the convoy while we took the kids and they would back out.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. Okay. Okay. All right. So you're doing ministry, you're killing it. Uh tell me about like that. Um, we're gonna wrap this up here in like 10 minutes, and we're gonna have to come back for a part two. Uh, but like give me the part where you um you make a difference in South Sudan, or like what was the biggest win in South Sudan?
SPEAKER_02:So the biggest win in South Sudan, I would say, was um I have currently, even till right now, I have two daughters that we support full time and they're missionaries in South Sudan now. Wait, now right now, right now. They're not literally my daughters, but they're Sudanese girls. Okay. And um love them. They're they became my daughters. Did you still talk to them? Yeah, yeah. And uh, and so we're still really hard to do. Like, did you rescue them? We did, yeah. Uh we we Like how did you do that?
SPEAKER_01:Like what happened?
SPEAKER_02:They were just part of a load of we came out wrong. They were part of a load of kids that we brought over, and uh we dropped them off at the UN tent over near BD BD, and uh these two girls were so afraid, so afraid, and they're like, Oh uh, picked them up. I was like, hey, it's okay, it's good. And so when you drop them off at a UN tent, there's a lot, there's so it sounds okay. This sounds, I'm only giving you the highlights. Yeah, this is this stuff is full of a lot of boring and a lot of paperwork and a lot of admin and a lot of just uh so during the uh I just I had the girls, we were at the tent, my kids came and they were playing with each other because my wife and kids are great, they're part of the survivor team, right? They're part of that therapeutic team, and and it's like when you've just instantly fallen in love and you're like, I love these girls, but we couldn't adopt them because you can't adopt them because you don't know who their parents are, they might have parents, there's a lot of laws there. Um, and so as they were going through the tents, like they were they had to get medical checked and paperwork, and they you know, they go over here and there's like indexing, trying to find families, because there's a lot of people. Um, and we just attached to this these two girls. Um, and then we ended up getting them over to Rhino camp because it was close to where our family stayed, uh, and just loved on them. And then eventually they they moved with us to Arua.
SPEAKER_01:Arua. Where's that? Is that South San Still?
SPEAKER_00:Nope, that's northern Uganda where my family was staying.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, got it. All right, so they stay with you. How long were you there before you left?
SPEAKER_02:We were there for eight months. Um and we were there for eight months, and then we we did some other stuff, and it was high risk out in the Nuba mountain ranges. Uh but we yeah, we went to Nuba for a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:What's where is that?
SPEAKER_02:It's in between Sudan and South Sudan. Of course, the Nuba mountain range. It's uh and um that's where they're actively trying to kill North Sudan is actively trying to genocide all the Nubans. You know, there's Darfur, everyone knows about Darfur. Oh, yeah, Darfur is like darkness. Not a lot of people are are realizing that the same thing is happening in the Nuba in the Nuba Mountains. Okay, and those are the Christians, so we went over there in order to support the Christians and help with all this and all that. And um again, sounds exciting, but we were just there having coffees and talking about Jesus.
SPEAKER_01:Except that there's people trying to kill you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, there's that.
SPEAKER_01:All right, I'm gonna pause you. We're gonna come back because I want to how long before you get to the actual Ukraine?
SPEAKER_02:Um, we ended up moving to Ethiopia uh when they had that conflict with uh and then uh we of course you did. Then we went to Thailand uh because of all the Burma stuff. Uh came back and then we moved to Ukraine.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. All right, I'm gonna pause you right there. We're gonna come back. This is definitely needs a part two. We definitely need way more time with you. And um I do want to put this out there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, this is the highlight stuff.
SPEAKER_01:It's it's so yeah, it's so boring. It's I I understand. In reality, it kind of is. Hey, if you want to live a really boring life, saving everybody in the world, traveling around the globe, talk to Bruno.
SPEAKER_02:I make it sound exciting. It's yeah, it's so boring.
SPEAKER_01:All right, hey, listen, we're gonna come back. We we got it, we're gonna get to Bruno uh next time. So like lock this in, stay tuned, come back. And or if you know, if you just came on this late, you can just hit hit play in the next one. Um, but man, I'm really excited about this. If if you got any questions for us between now and the next time, just text in at 737-231-0605. We'd love your questions on sex trafficking, love your questions on how to change the world in a very boring way by traveling the world and saving people's lives. All right. Thanks very much for watching from our house of yours. Have an awesome week.