Sports As A Weapon Podcast
Sports As A Weapon Podcast
49 | Hands Off Venezuela Yanquis!
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In this episode of The Sports As a Weapon Podcast, Miguel welcomes British-Chilean journalist and documentary filmmaker Pablo Navarrete. The discussion centers around the recent US attack on Venezuela on January 3, 2026, which led to the kidnapping of President Nicolás Maduro and his wife, First Lady Cilia Flores. Pablo shares his experiences and insights on Venezuelan politics, the influence of Chavismo, and the impact of US imperialism. He also highlights his work in documentary filmmaking, focusing on Venezuela and Latin American issues. Miguel and Pablo’s conversation includes perspectives on independent media and grassroots journalism, and the roles of Chavista social activists of the Bolivarian Revolution, such as Mariela Machado in Venezuela.
Links:
* The War On Democracy (2007 Documentary) by John Pilger
* Venezuela: Defending the Revolution (2019 Documentary) by Pablo Navarrete/Redfish Media
* The Other Venezuela (2019 Documentary) by Pablo Navarrete/Redfish Media
* Caesar Crossed the Rubicon; So Did Trump by Maria Páez Victor/Orinoco Tribune
* Mariela Machado Instagram Interview via @chanramosvictoralfonso
* Venezuelan, International Popular Movements Condemn US Bombings, Maduro Kidnapping by Ricardo Vaz
Miguel Garcia and Comrade E produced this episode. The Sports As A Weapon Podcast is part of the @Anticonquista Media Collective. Subscribe to the ANTICONQUISTA Patreon and follow ANTICONQUISTA on YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook.
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Intro: [00:00:00] To the what
came here to the new mover.
Miguel: All right. Hey everyone. Welcome to The Sports As a Weapon Podcast, a Chicano Chicana Sports podcast on the entanglement of sports radical politics and working class sports fan culture. And don't worry, we talk about just sports two, but today it's. Gonna be very more political and serious with some. This episode was already scheduled a week before this happened, a couple weeks before this happened, but now there's some latest developments.
We're gonna talk about Venezuela now. I have a special guest on the [00:01:00] podcast today. Um, but before I introduce him, the Sports As a Weapon podcast. It's part of the ANTICONQUISTA Media Collective Network. ANTICONQUISTA is an anti-imperialist media collective. Our content is produced by and for the Latin American and Caribbean diaspora.
We are dedicated to exposing and fighting the capitalist imperialist system, the root cause of our displacement. Subscribe to the ANTICONQUISTA Patreon at Patreon/ANTICONQUISTA and follow ANTICONQUISTA on YouTube, Twitter/x and Instagram. Also be sure to listen, subscribe to our podcast, Sports As A Weapon podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
And then the video goes on the ANTICONQUISTA YouTube. All right? Very excited, uh, to have this person on the podcast. Um, but then we have some latest developments, so some serious stuff happening. But very happy to have Pablo Navarrete on the podcast. He is a [00:02:00] British Chilean journalist and documentary filmmaker. He co-founded Alborada Films in 2009 and released his first documentary, Inside the Revolution, A Journey into the Heart of Venezuela.
That same year. Alborada Films has since released seven other independent documentaries and produced films and videos for various media outlets. He is the founding editor of Alborada, an independent voice on Latin American politics, media, and culture. His journalism is focused on social issues, storytelling, covering politics, media and culture from Latin America and beyond.
You could check out his substack Level Ground. Um, I'll put the link in the show notes. It's, uh, https://pablonavarrete.substack.com/
Thank you Pablo for ha, coming on the podcast.
Pablo: Thanks Miguel. Thanks for having me, for inviting me.
Miguel: Yes. And um, I know we had this scheduled before all this, what just [00:03:00] happened? Yes. I guess less than 48 hours ago, 30 some hours of this recording. This recording will be out in like a week, but today's January 4th.
And, um, if you didn't know. The us uh, finally did their attack on Venezuela on the early morning of January 3rd, and they also kidnapped President Maduro and his wife. Um, so we'll, we'll get into Vene, um, this stuff, um, more of a general discussion. Um, but thank you Pablo for coming on the podcast. Um, just, uh, let me know what you're up.
Anything you wanna throw in there real quick before we get into it?
Pablo: Yeah, I mean, obviously there's, I mean, it's a really dramatic, uh, news. News that in some ways is unbelievable, but in many ways it's sadly believable because we've had, you know, the buildup in the Caribbean, the murder [00:04:00] of more than a hundred, you know.
Fishermen or according to the Trump government, which obviously we shouldn't believe, uh, narco traffickers. And it's clear that Trump had, you know, meant to do something serious in Venezuela. Um, it, and so before, I mean, we talk a little bit about this. Again, it's not, it's such a fast moving, uh, situation.
There's so much speculation that I actually don't think. Uh, it's worth going too much into the different theories of why and how, um, it's better to concentrate on what we know and what we can be sure of. But before that, I thought maybe it's useful to kind of, um, know a little bit about, more about what I do and where I come from in terms of, you know, Venezuela.
Uh, so you know, my name's Pablo Navarrete. Uh, I have a British accent and that's because I was born in London. Uh, in the late [00:05:00] 1978, my parents are Chilean and they were forced to leave Chile after the 1973 coup US-backed coup. So, you know, more than, uh, 53 years later, uh, we're still, uh, talking about US-backed coups, uh, and we've been talking about it for far too long.
So my parents arrived in England in 1975 and 1976 after having spent time in the concentration camps of the fascist dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet. Uh, my parents were young activists, medical students. Uh, my dad was 19, my mom was 21 when the coup happened. Uh, they arrived in Britain, you know, very young.
And I was born here and, and in, in, in London, grew up, and I live outside London. Um, and I've lived in England all my life except for two, [00:06:00] for living in New York when I was young, uh, at the age of nine, uh, and living in, uh, Venezuela in 2005. I lived for two years, just under two years during, uh, what I think we could say is the high point of Chavismo when Hugo Chavez.
Uh, was president, uh, and he won a very, you know, comprehensive election victory in December 20, uh, 2006. But I was there, you know, between early 2005 to mid 2007. And, and yeah, so I lived in Venezuela. Uh, I've never lived in Chile. Um, and the reason I was interested was obviously the, the what was going on with the Chavez government, but also because my first contact with Latin America.
Was Venezuela because my mom's sister, uh, in 1975, uh, like many Chileans I was looking at the numbers recently and it was about 50,000 [00:07:00] Chileans left after the 1973 coup to Venezuela and Chile had about 10 million, uh, population of about 10 million. So that's one in every 200 Chileans. Uh, were given exile in Venezuela and my, uh.
Mom's sister went there and my first visit to Latin America was as a 2-year-old to Venezuela. And so my parents were banned from going to Chile until 1989, the year before, uh, democracy returned, uh, in 1990. And so I went to Venezuela a few times and that's my first contact. So my connection to the country, uh, even though I have Chilean heritage, I have a very strong connection to Venezuela, which obviously.
Then deepened with, with, uh, going to live there and experiencing the Bolivarian revolution. And then that inspired through work that I did in Venezuela. My first contact with [00:08:00] documentary filmmaking is what then sort of took me down the path of making films and documentary films to try and, you know, you know, give platforms to the voices coming out of the region.
Which I felt challenged, the kind of the propaganda, I mean, we can call it many other things, but I think the best way really is to call it the propaganda coming from the mainstream media around, you know, what goes on in the region and why, and why it goes on. So I've made, I, I worked on a film for some, for a great Australian journalist called John Pilger, uh, when I lived there, and that was the War on Democracy that came out in 2007.
Uh, and that was an incredible experience that it involved, uh, going, traveling with all the Chavez on his presidential plane, uh, uh, and, you know, interviewing him with, with John. I was sitting right behind John. Oh, you
Miguel: were right there. Because I've seen that John Pilger's, uh,
Pablo: I wanna say
Miguel: it was a good, uh, he [00:09:00] was a big influence to me.
Politics, you know, all his documentaries. So
Pablo: yeah, John Pilger is a, a giant and, uh, you know, and it was, you know, a, a real privilege and an honor to have the, you know, it was my first experience of working in documentary film and it was working with John Pilger for this project. Uh, my father's actually in that film.
He's interviewed in the, oh, he's okay. When he walked around the national stadium, that's with my father, so, um. Uh, so yeah, it was an incredible experience and that, you know, obviously opened my eyes to the, to the power of film and documentary film and, and,
you know,
um, and then I made my, you know, I made my own first documentary in 2000 and, well, it came in 2009 and I filmed it in 2008 after I returned to Britain from living in Venezuela.
And it was, you know, a film that kind of just tried to. Uh, take stock of what I'd [00:10:00] experienced. And it was like an evaluation of the first 10 years of Chavismo.
Miguel: Yeah. And then that one's called Inside the Revolution.
Pablo: Inside the Revolution. Yeah. That's on Vimeo, on YouTube. Very rough and ready. But I feel that I kind of, yeah, I'd never been to film school.
It was a very kind of, almost reckless to go out there with a camera. Badly. Quite badly shot, you know, in many ways, very grassrootsy. But, uh, hopefully, hopefully it captured. Uh, uh,
Miguel: I think it was a great film. I remember seeing it before you even know, didn't know who you were right before I even had this podcast.
Pablo: No, no, no. Thank, yeah. I think it, you know, I think the strength is that it captured some voices and, and, and again, it, it, living in Venezuela really brought home to me. You know, I'd never lived in a context like that and I was. On the one hand experiencing, you know, so many things, seeing so [00:11:00] many things that were inspiring, uh, and on the other hand, seeing how that reality was being reported by the mainstream media.
And this is across the board, so obviously you would expect the right wing media to be demonizing and smearing and lying, but the quote unquote progressive media. Uh, you know, I, I did some work for the BBC as a fixer when I was there, and I could see the ways that the agendas were being manipulated. Um, uh, I got to meet the first, uh, The Guardian is a kind of big liberals, quote unquote liberal left newspaper in Britain, which many people feel is kind of the kind of progressive voice.
Um, and I, you know, they had a correspondent that came for the first time in 25 years. And he was, to be honest, his reporting was some of the most bad faith reporting that I saw on the process.
Miguel: So you had [00:12:00] an inside view on how that that happened.
Pablo: An inside view. And it was actually, it was actually very shocking, if I'm honest.
Even though I came from this family context, you know, of a left-wing, you know, political exile, family supporters of Salvador Allende growing up in a left-wing house. I, I feel almost embarrassed to say that when I went to live in Venezuela in 2005, I thought The Guardian was a left wing newspaper. So it took, it took that kind of on the ground, you know, really kind of seeing it with my own eyes to sort of understand that there was a real big problem.
And something that I've then seen, you know, later on and with Julian Assange or with, uh, even Jeremy Corbyn when he was the leader of the Labor Party. The way the Guardian demonized characters. For many people I'd already seen it with like Chavez and the Latin American left, and so no doubt they've done it before that with countless other things.
But I think again, [00:13:00] the propaganda is powerful and you believe that the Guardian is a progressive voice. Um, and so I think this is what really made me, you know, go into documentary film, but also like grassroots journalism to to, you know, in the belief that we do need to. Uh, counter this propaganda with, with, you know, with balance, with, with the voices that get smeared, uh, or ignored.
So, yeah, I've made, sorry it's a long, a long answer, but war and democracy led to inside the revolution. And then I guess I've made other films around other countries. Um, but then I went back to Venezuela in 2019 to make two short films, uh, for redfish. Uh, I think both of which you can, uh, view online and I'll maybe give you a link with all the Venezuela films.
Um, uh, and that was after Guiado, had kind of, you know, declared himself president. Um, so there was that could that, that regime changed.
Miguel: Can you talk [00:14:00] about those two films? Like what was,
what'd
you learn from those? Yeah. One was
Pablo: called, um, Defending the Revolution and it was look at, look at the kind of popular militia that was on the ground.
Um, because of, you know, obviously it's a hybrid war that Venezuela has faced. Uh, uh, and so the, the kind of strategy was to develop a kind of, I guess, a people's militia to, to help defend, uh, in a kind of asymmetric warfare response to, um, to actual boots on the ground invasion. Um, and so it was kind of to.
You know, look at that, but also to look at the kind of commun, you know, the, the, the militant barriers of Caracas and to look at some of the, the ways people were coming together to fight the sanctions and to come together to, to fight this regime change. 'cause obviously it's not, let's say it's a hybrid war, it's not, people think that the bombing of Caracas Yes.
You know, 36 hours ago or whatever is, you know, the [00:15:00] war. But no, the war has been going on. Basically, since Chavez won the election in 1999, maybe, maybe there was a year and a half where the US were assessing if they could, you know, basically co-opt him. Um, but once they realized that he wasn't gonna play ball, um, you know, the regime, you know, the attempts to, to remove him from power began, you know, culminating in two thou April, 2002 with the, with the coup that they supported to remove him, uh, for 48 hours.
Um, so yeah, so I mean, Venezuela, as I say, I've made these four films, but, and I also actually went to make another film in 2011, end of 2011, with a political, uh, hip hop artist who now I would say the journalist and Brilliant Mind. Lowkey.
Miguel: Oh,
Lowkey. You did a film with Lowkey. Okay.
Pablo: And I went with, uh, a great, uh, young poet writer, uh, Jody [00:16:00] McIntyre.
A British, so I went with both of them. And we spent some time with hiphop revolucion, um, the collective then collective of radical hiphop, you know, um, artists who had featured a little bit in Inside the Revolution.
Miguel: Yeah. Because
in Inside the Revolution, you, you talk about those Colectivos that are all in Venezuela.
Pablo: Exactly. So I, I did think, you know, if I ever was gonna do a second film, I'd like to just go back and, and so we ended up just having, going on a trip with Lowkey and Jody. And hanging out with them. Um, and that's hiphop revolution. So I guess, yeah, there were kind of five, four films of mine and, and obviously the, the, the first one being the, the film that kind of opened this all up for me, which was working with John Pilger on the War on Democracy on.
And so, yeah, I've got, I mean, the last time I was in Venezuela was April 2024. Okay. To see family, primarily, um, to see friends in Caracas and where my family live. So I've kept, you know, up to date with, [00:17:00] uh, the country and its politics. It's, it's a country that have a deep love for, um, and it's, and it makes it all the more painful to see the suffering that has been inflicted on it by the, by Washington.
And what, and the uncertainty that's coming now is, is, uh,
Miguel: yeah. So we wanna talk a little bit about, I know it's gonna be just very general, um, but what is happening now?
Pablo: Yeah. I mean, look, today I spoke with, uh, two people. I spoke with a family member, uh, which if not include, not in Caracas, and it's quite far from Caracas.
Um, uh, and he said that it's tense, but it's calm. Um, so this idea that Trump yesterday said that we're. Running Venezuela from now, that's not happening. I mean, again, um, it's such a fast moving situation. I know that, you know, Rubio has made some new, renewed threats to the Vice President Delcy Rodriguez [00:18:00] who is kind of acting up.
Miguel: She's
the interim right
now,
right?
Pablo: Um, yeah, there is, uh, the, the Institutionality is working as set out in the Constitution and she's now acting up. You know, there's a million theories going around as to how it got to be that Maduro was taken in the way that he was. And I think we won't know, you know, what's true and what's not true for, for a while.
Um, there is a sense of shock from what I've been told that it happened. Uh, like that as dramatically as quickly, maybe as, as it happened.
Miguel: Yeah. Because I know people were expecting it, but even when it happened, they were
Pablo: expecting
Miguel: it. Yeah. It's still like a shock. Like, I was like, oh crap, they actually did it.
Like just me, a person over here in the US. You know, like
Pablo: Exactly. It's, it's, it's, I mean it's actually, as you say, as I said at the beginning, it's unbelievable in many ways, but [00:19:00] sadly believable. Um. And it reminds me actually, of something my dad said, uh, during the coup, I mean, in Chile, people knew the coup was coming.
Um, and when it came, what they did, they, what he says is that a lot of his comrades were shocked by the ferocity of the brutality and the savagery of the, of those that inflicted and, and they didn't expect. Now that the difference being in Chile, the institutionality. It's still in place. The Bolivarian government is still in place. In Chile Allende was removed and the dictatorship mm-hmm.
Came in. So that's a big difference. And there's big differences in the military. There was an actual
Miguel: successful coup with Chile when that happened. Exactly,
Pablo: exactly. Which is not to say that, you know, there won't be further bombing and, but interestingly, Trump has almost sidelined María Corina Machado. You know, the quote unquote, peace.
You know,
Miguel: peace. Yeah. He's really, he's like, well, [00:20:00] they don't have, he's just more like typical Trump when he's
Pablo: exactly talking like that, you know? And that speaks a lot again, to, to these ideas that she was so popular in Venezuela. Um, because if she was so popular, why would she be sidelined in the way, I mean, it speaks to like the fact that she doesn't have this support.
That, and
Miguel: the propaganda that was,
that was used. What she did, she won the Nobel Peace Prize.
Pablo: I mean, again, that was beyond the, I think it was like, you know, I, interestingly, I interviewed, I mean I did, I was working for Canadian TV as one of the, um, jobs I did when I worked there for a good four part program called Hugo the Boss that came out in around 2006.
Uh, and it was a fair, fair piece. Um, and one of the, one of, they were short, like 10 minute each. Uh, and I fixed up an interview with Maria 'cause they wanted to do, you know, obviously interview both sides [00:21:00] and the opposition, but never, you know, they always wanted to talk. Uh, and we interviewed her for, for that.
Um, so I met, I got to sit in a room with her for an hour or so in 2006. And then interestingly, I went to show inside the revolution to the US in December, 2009. And I showed it at Harvard. I showed, I gave a talk about it at Columbia Journalism School and I showed it at Yale and I had no idea that Yale had given her some kind of, um, scholarship.
Um, and she was there for a year on some fellowship. Oh. So she came, I suddenly see her walk up with a little entourage of three or four people. And I'm, I just see her, I'm like, that's María Corina Machado. And she just walks into the room. So she was
Miguel: there right when you're there doing your film, like,
Pablo: so she had to watch inside the Revolution.
Uh, she was probably horrified [00:22:00] by what she saw. Uh, and then in the q and a, you know, I did a q and a and, and she sat, she was sitting like a couple of meters right in front of me, just with her, her head tilted in the way. She, the same way she tilted her head for the interview that we did in 2006. Wow. Uh, and just looking at me like with this very kind of slightly devilish grin, um, but not saying anything.
And I, you know, she just sat there looking at me and I was people talking. And to the extent that I was almost trying to provoke her into saying something I didn't say, I didn't like call her by her name, but I said, there are people in this room with intimate knowledge of the 2002 coup. And I kind of almost.
Nodded it in her direction, but she didn't wanna take the bait and she just, um, yeah. So I mean, you know, these are the kind of far right, you know, characters who are, you know, essentially the, the heirs of the types of Pinochet, uh, in, [00:23:00] in the region and who will always. You know, who will always be vetted by the organization, such as, I mean, the Nobel Peace Prize is obviously, doesn't mean anything after Kissinger and others have won it.
Um, but still the idea that, the idea that some people, I struggle to believe that you, they honestly believe that she is like a person who in any way, wants peace. But you know, these are the kind of people who are, I think she recently
Miguel: did an interview when all this propaganda was going around where she even said like, oh yeah.
Uh, you know, attack Venezuela, if it's gonna liberate the, you know, the typical, I saw one of those recent interviews. Yeah. So she's even willing to bomb her own people and country
Pablo: bombing for peace. But they can always invent, they can always invent something. Um, so yeah, so super long answer to my connection to Venezuela and what's going on now.
As I said, I think what's important really is to. Just state what's, what's [00:24:00] happened, which is, you know, an absolutely out of control, imperial power, uh, with Trump, but it's been out of control for many years. But Trump is obviously, he kind of is the, the most honest version of US imperialism. Exactly. You know, he, he, he doesn't pretend, he's kind of like the guy in the John Pilger film, the War on Democracy, the CIA analyst.
I dunno if you remember. Oh, yes, yes, yes. I would recommend, and that film is on Vimeo, so I would recommend people watch it. And for me, Trump is basically that CIA analyst who says something like, to John Pilger. If you don't like it, John just, you know, lump, suck it up or something. We'll do whatever. We'll bomb whoever we want.
You know, gangsters basically. Uh, it kind even
Miguel: reminds me of a few years ago when, uh, billionaire Elon Musk was talking about Bolivia. Well, we'll take whatever lithium we want, like in his tweet.
Pablo: So these are kind of, they're [00:25:00] gangsters, uh, in suits, billionaires, but they are gangsters, uh, who, you know, break international law.
Who, who, the thing with Trump is that he doesn't even pretend that he's, he just basically is a out and out gangster. Uh, and the US is essentially a gangster state that's kidnapping presidents in, let's say, in what he's now very clearly restated being the Monroe Doctrine. Um, and they'll go to a country, uh, because it's their backyard 'cause it's basically the US in his warped mind.
He would apply whatever, you know, he'll just go in there, take a precedent, take his wife. No due process, he'll. Blow up fishermen in the Caribbean, and let's not even speak about the, the kind of genocide that, uh, that he funds and supports in ge, in, in, in Gaza, in Palestine. So it's, it's, it's clearly a, a [00:26:00] regime, a government that's out of control across the world.
And unfortunately, Latin America now seems to be the place where he wants to reassert. Uh, at this kind of idea of being the, the top boss, so that, you know, that's whenever you read articles now saying, you know, there was a, you know, the Venezuelan president was taken, he was, you know, he was kidnapped, uh, completely, no international law that would allow any of this.
So it's a completely rogue action. Uh, and at the moment there's a, you know, there's a president of a country that's been kidnapped. In New York. Uh, and who knows exactly what they're going to do, uh, when it comes to, to, you know, the existing bolivarian government. Um, but unfortunately those that will pay the price, continue paying the price of those that have paid the price of US [00:27:00] sanctions for many years.
Now, are the normal Venezuelans men, women, children, those that have died because they can't get. Medicines, uh, those, uh, you know, who have seen their li life shattered because of sanctions. And again, you, you hear the media full of the articles about the mass exodus of Venezuelans, which is true. But any, any of these articles or analysis, which don't put us warfare on Venezuela at the center of the analysis.
Is a completely disingenuous, uh, bit of news or reporting or filmmaking because it exists that has caused the tragedy, uh, that has meant that so many Venezuelans, including family of mine, have left the country. Uh, so yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a difficult situation. The other person I spoke to was, uh, Joel Elinares, who was, uh, one of the big voices [00:28:00] in inside the Revolution.
Uh, a kind of barrio activist. Um, and he, you know, he lives out just outside Caracas and I asked him, what, what, what is, you know, this is, I spoke to him for my film in 2008 and so we, you know, we're 18 years down the line. Uh uh, and it, he said some things in that film, which is really interesting. Um, you know, this is irreversible.
I think he's obviously changed some of his positions around. You know, what, what happens in, in these processes? Because nothing is irreversible, unfortunately. But, but what he did say was that, that if the US government thinks that just taking Maduro is going to finish with Chavismo, then they're completely, uh, mistaken that I think Chavismo more has taken hold in a population and it's, it's more than just, you know.
Uh, president, it's, it's a kind of culture now. [00:29:00] It's a way of thinking. It's a way of thinking about their country sovereignty. Uh, and so that might be one of the, I mean, you know, the, the CIA and others, that they certainly have good information, so they're probably aware that, that that is not a case of just going into the country and things will fall apart, perhaps like in other places that they will have to, you know, take very deep, uh, hits.
If they're gonna go in, and that's why maybe they've done, they're doing it in the way that they're, they're trying to do it.
Miguel: Yeah. It's more of a big show that they captured Maduro. Right. Like, that's like, it's kind of like Trump showing, look what I did, I got Maduro. And then to kind of make it seem like he really, but they're, they understand, oh, we can't really go deep into the, you know, they're not gonna put people, I don't think they're gonna put ground troops.
I don't know what could happen in the future, but
Pablo: who knows? I mean, Trump is, you know. Uh,
Miguel: but because of that, like your film, I think that's why your film, um, Defending the Revolution [00:30:00] shows how people are organized with, you know, the defense, community defense, uh, militias that are there. Like it shows you a very good picture of,
Pablo: I don't know, that was obviously 2019.
So things change and situations become harder. But what's clear is that there is not, uh, an ex, you know, there was no mass, there wasn't people on the streets in Venezuela really celebrating this. You saw them in, you know, Miami and in Chile there's a lot of Venezuelans. And there were, there were celebrations.
We're not gonna pretend, um, there weren't people celebrating, but you, you didn't see, uh, in Venezuela, really. Um, and so, yeah, I mean, I think what I would say is that people really need to. Understand that the mainstream media won't be giving, and, and I'm sure the people that watch this or listen to this podcast are people that won't, you know, be taking, uh, this mainstream media in good faith.[00:31:00]
But I would say, you know, for Venezuela, it's clear that somewhere like Venezuela Analysis should be the first port of call, uh, for kind of trying to get a sense of what's going on. Following them, supporting them as well. Because the other thing is, you know, independent media, um, needs supporting some, you know, people independent films need supporting independent media needs, supporting sometimes, you know, we as a collective, you know, rally against the mainstream and say, we need, but we also need to sometimes support the initiatives from below.
Um, because, uh, you know, it's, it's very difficult to, to, you know, be sustainable and do. Um, uh, with, with messages that are counter hegemonic. I mean, there's a reason if you, if you wanna, if you, if you wanna, if I wanna make a film about the DIC narco dictatorship in Venezuela, I'm sure I can get the funding of, I can get the funding and I can get the interest from the mainstream media.
But if I wanna make a film exploring, you know, [00:32:00] Bolivarianism and why people support you, blah, blah, blah, then they're not interested because it doesn't fit in the, um, the kind of priorities. Of the mainstream, which at the end of the day are kind of just serving the interests of, you know, those in power and places like Washington and London.
Miguel: Um, and then I know you want, let's talk about, uh, Mariela Machado. I know she was in your documentary of talking about people in Venezuela, activists in Venezuela, that, that show how, how this revolutionary process has been working, how it's. Working. Like she's, if you wanna talk about her, like she's a very prominent activist.
Yeah. She's, she's the,
she's featured in films.
Pablo: the good Machado In Venezuela, not Maria Corina, she, um, she's an incredible ca person. Uh, someone I. I kind of, 'cause I was looking for, you know, for who John [00:33:00] would interview for the War on Democracy. And I was,
Miguel: I remember her from that doc. That's how I remember her. Yeah. I,
Pablo: yeah. And so we filmed, the War of Democracy was filmed in April, 2006.
Rough. Yeah. And I remember, I, I think roughly around, it must have been sometime between, maybe, let's say late 2005. I was at a, um, a meeting of housing activists in La Vega in the barrio of, Caracas, where militant, and there was housing activists. Uh, and I'd gone also just to see it for myself, but also I had one eye on, you know, looking for people that would be good, uh, to interview.
And she just walked in like a site, like a tornado. Uh, this character of just incredible activist, you know, larger than life character. And immediately I was just like, this person is an incredible, and in fact, in the John Pilger film, you don't really get a sense of her real character. She was a sit down [00:34:00] interview, but she does say some very profound things in that film, which is, you know, before Chavez came, the places where they lived weren't even on the maps.
And I think, you know, these are the kind of thing that Chavismo has. Um, you know, given people the kind of self-respect that the old, uh, systems never gave them. Not only were they exploited, uh, and uh, by these systems, but they were just, you know, they were erased. Uh,
Miguel: yeah. Like they didn't exist. When you're not on the map, it's like you don't exist.
Pablo: Exactly.
There was a very European. Type settler, uh, elites as in other con parts of, of Latin America. And there were massive racism. And, you know, someone like Mariela Machado, Afro Venezuelan woman from a barrio was a nobody for them. And so that was a very profound, uh, line for, for me in, in the, in the John Pilger film.
And then I, uh, you know, we stayed in touch and I interviewed her for [00:35:00] Inside the Revolution. Uh, and she's also one of the sort of main voices in one of the two films I did in 2019 for Redfish called, um, I can't remember the name of the film, but it was not the,
Miguel: The Other Venezuela.
Pablo: Um, so yeah, that, that one's again, she's, you know, in 2019 she's there fighting for her community.
And yesterday I got sent, uh, and I hadn't actually, um, realized it was her when I first, I kind of. Watched it and then I was like, and then I watched it again. I was like, geez, that's Mariela. And she's there. Oh,
Miguel: one of the, one of the social media videos that's going around.
Pablo: Exactly.
Miguel: Is that what you're talking?
Yeah, I saw that. Yeah.
Pablo: So maybe we can link to that in the, but, um, but she's there in Caracas yesterday on the street, you know, in a typical manner, just demanding that Nicolas Maduro is returned, uh, and denouncing the coup. And the attack and the, and, and the [00:36:00] bombing. And so Mariela is for me, like, uh, someone that really represents what Chavismo, uh, is, uh, and has produced in Venezuela.
Uh, and someone that's fearless in the face of, of, you know, this Imperial war machine. Um, and who's prepared to put, I'm sure her life on the line to defend Venezuela. And the government that she, that she wants in power.
Miguel: Yeah. So I'll put those links for everyone in the show notes, um, links to your films, and then we'll find that video of her interview.
And then I know she was interviewed by Venezuela analysis for one of the articles they just did. I'll probably put a link to that one too, just 'cause she is like, I remember seeing her in the John Pilger film. She does stand out and she just, she's a good, good example. Perfect example of. what it means the, you know, the ordinary people of Venezuela and what the revolution means and what it did for people.[00:37:00]
Pablo: Exactly. And she's not, and, and again, and just to, I mean, people think of, oh, you know, she's just some government mouthpiece, but, you know, she's a fiercely independent woman, uh, who, who I've seen go up to the bureaucracy and shout at them. And, you know, she is someone who's, you know. She, she is a, a very intelligent woman who's made up her mind about the pros and the cons of the situation.
And, you know, there is this deeply patronizing, uh, and, and I saw it for my, you know, for myself when I lived there in 2005, even the Western media, because there was, I mean, don't get me going about what I saw in terms of the journal. I mean, I'll tell you one anecdote where I heard that the BBC. Wanted to go into a barrio to do interviews with Chavistas, but the, the correspondent didn't speak Spanish, so she was asking if they could get her, you know, people in [00:38:00] the barrio that spoke English so that she could, you know, make the interviews.
Again, I mean, the, the level of self lack of self-awareness and just. Speak and the privilege and, you know, so many things wrong with that.
Miguel: The racism, the Xenophobia, the, yeah.
Pablo: I mean, and even the, that Guardian correspondent, uh, said to me that he was their first correspondent in 25 years, and he didn't speak eng, he didn't speak Spanish.
Wow. Uh, and he was their Latin America correspondent for the biggest red English language, you know, website, like, you know, Basian or Progressive news in, in the English speaking world. And he spoke no Spanish. And I know that he lived in the bri, one of the richest parts, uh, in Altamira, in Caracas, uh, okay. In a penthouse.
So again, these are the things that, that kind of, when you see it up close, you under start understanding why, why you hear things about country, where they come from, what, what the, [00:39:00] what the motivations are, uh, what the priorities of these people are. So, yeah. Um, I would say listen to Mariela Machado.. Uh, ignore Maria Corina Machado
and, um, you know, support independent media like Venezuela Analysis and, um, you know, I think people in the US and the UK in the centers of Imperial, what I wouldn't say the UK the UK is essentially are kind of just a basal state of the us but in Washington and the US I think the only way that these processes will stop is when.
The citizens of those, of that country stop the, the, the leaders from, from somehow Exactly. Uh, in inflicting this violence on, on the people of, of Latin America and elsewhere.
Miguel: Um, and then, all right, um, we're gonna wrap up the podcast. Uh, but, any, uh, closing remarks?
Pablo: No, just thanks. Thanks for the invite. I [00:40:00] didn't want get.
You know, it's such a fast moving situation. But yeah, I think it's just concentrate on the bigger picture, which is, you know, a president has been kidnapped by a gangster state and that is an outrage and it has to be protested.
Miguel: Like imagine if this happened to, I wouldn't even say the US president, let's say someone like another western country, like one of the prime ministers is, uh, like UK or someone from France, like.
Just, uh, someone from the west, if they would've got kidnapped, there would be so much outrage, especially from the, the double
Pablo: standards are not, not even, you can't even, there are no levels to even explain the double standards
Miguel: then just the words they use, obviously, right? Like, oh, he was captured like he used some fugitive and.
People don't forget, you know, they put that bounty on Maduro over here in the US but I remember it got upped before Trump when Biden was still in president. So again, it does, Trump is,
go ahead.
Pablo: It's just one. [00:41:00] It is a shade. It's a shade. It's like Coke and Pepsi. Some, maybe Pepsi, light and Coke, but you know, it's the same.
Exactly. Deeply harmful.
Miguel: Yeah, so don't, don't get caught up in the whole, I know people that listen to this podcast already know this, but don't get caught up in the whole Democrat, Republican thing. But Trump is a good example, like you mentioned earlier of he is, he doesn't hide anything. He just shows you what America, what American imperialism is.
And it has always been.
Pablo: Yeah.
Miguel: But that's all. Thank you Pablo, for coming on the podcast. Um, you know, lot of serious. Development that happened after we had scheduled this with what's happening. But I appreciate your time
Pablo: and we found out that
we're both Liverpool fans, so
Miguel: Oh yeah. Go Liverpool. Um, not the greatest season right now, but hey, we were the champions last year.
Uh, um, so yeah, we share that in common. Both love Liverpool. Um, but I appreciate your time. I know over there it's, you're in the UK it's like seven over here. I'm in California. 11:00 AM So, uh, I appreciate you on the [00:42:00] coming on the podcast. Um, and folks will put the links to his films and his Substack, um, he writes in his substack, he wrote something re uh, that after what just happened.
He so read his latest article on that if you want. They'll be in the links. Um, so I appreciate it, Pablo. Have a good one.
Pablo: You too. Take.