58 | UFC Freedom 250 & US Imperialism

Miguel was joined on the Sports As A Weapon podcast by Dr. Gerald Horne and Anthony “Tony” Ballas to discuss the June 14, 2026 UFC “Freedom 250” event that was staged as an imperialist political spectacle by Donald Trump and Dana White. Dr. Horne, Anthony, and Miguel framed the spectacle as US imperial theater echoing “bread and circuses” and even late-stage Roman Empire decline. 

Additionally, Dr. Horne, Anthony, and Miguel discussed the parallels between Dana White and historic boxing promoters, fighter labor exploitation, and the event being used as a propaganda tool for US patriotism and militarization. Also, Miguel posed the question of alleged match-fixing amid the wider boom in sports gambling, crypto payments, and prediction markets, including the alleged leaked viral Twitter exchange between former UFC fighter and now commentator Daniel Cormier and Eric Trump. In the leaked message, Eric Trump sought insider betting information ahead of the UFC event. 

The episode conversation also links these dynamics to finance capital, media consolidation, and the crisis of US imperialism. Miguel, Dr. Horne, and Anthony also examined the UFC’s new partnership with an AI military startup called Anduril and the normalization of AI within culture and warfare. To conclude the podcast, they discussed Dr. Horne and Anthony’s article on Whiteness, Jake Paul, and the crisis of US Imperialism.

Gerald Horne is John Jay and Rebecca Moors Chair of History and African American Studies at the University of Houston. Dr. Horne is the author of 50 books, including The BitterSweet Science: Racism, Racketeering, and the Political Economy of Boxing. His latest book is The Counter-Revolution Of 1893: The Hawaii Coup and the Roots of U.S. Imperialism in the Asia-Pacific Basin. 

Anthony Ballas is an organizer with NFEE Local 4935. He is also a PhD student in Literature at Duke University. His work appears in Monthly Review, Protean Magazine, Caribbean Quarterly, 3:AM Magazine, Truthout, Middle West Review, CounterPunch, Scalawag Magazine, Peace, Land and Bread Magazine, and elsewhere. He is also the host of the De Facto Podcast and co-host of Cold War Cinema. 

Links:

* Follow Dr. Gerald Horne on Facebook

* Black & Red — 40th Anniversary Edition by Dr. Gerald Horne (Pre-order) 

* Slave Trade and the Roots of U.S. Imperialism by Dr. Gerald Horne (Pre-order)

* De Facto Podcast with Anthony Ballas

* The Cold War Cinema Podcast with Jason Christian, Anthony Ballas, & Paul T. Klein 

* TKO and Anduril Announce Partnership Across UFC and Zuffa Boxing/UFC.com

* Eric Trump Accused of Seeking UFC Fight Intel, Calls It ‘Completely Fake by Eric Fisher/Front Office Sports

* Shadowboxing with Ghosts: Whiteness, Jake Paul, and the Crisis of U.S. Imperialism by Dr. Gerald Horne and Anthony Ballas/The Black Agenda Report

* What American Fascism Has Already Looked Like by Dr. Gerald Horne and Anthony Ballas/PLB Magazine

* Gerald Horne Around The Horne: America 250 July 4th Anniversary, Birthright Citizenship & Juneteenth/Activist News Network (YouTube)

Miguel Garcia and Comrade E produced this episode. The Sports As A Weapon Podcast is part of the @Anticonquista Media Collective. Subscribe to the ANTICONQUISTA Patreon and follow ANTICONQUISTA on YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook.

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Transcript

Episode 58: UFC Freedom 250 & US Imperialism 
 
 

[00:00:00] Intro: We came here to build the new Chicano movement. That's what we came here for 
 
 

[00:00:12] Miguel: Hey everyone, it's Miguel Garcia and welcome to another episode of the Sports As A Weapon podcast, a Chicano/Chicana sports podcast on the entanglement of sports, radical politics, and working class sports fan culture. And don't worry, we talk about just sports, too Remember, the Sports as a Weapon podcast is part of the ANTICONQUISTA Media Collective. 
 
 

Our content is produced by and for the Latin and American Caribbean diaspora. We are dedicated to exposing and fighting the capitalist imperialist system, the root cause of our displacement. Subscribe to the ANTICONQUISTA Patreon at Patreon/ANTICONQUISTA, and follow @ANTICONQUISTA on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter X, and [00:01:00] Instagram. 
 
 

Also, be sure to watch all our new episodes on the ANTICONQUISTA YouTube and listen, subscribe to the Sports as a Weapon podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can follow the Sports as a Weapon podcast @sportsasaweaponpodcast on Facebook and Instagram and @sportsasaweapon on Twitter X. 
 
 

Now, I'm very excited to welcome to the show Dr. Gerald Horne. He is a prolific author and African American historian who currently holds the John J. and Rebecca Moores Chair of History and African American Studies at the University of Houston. Dr. Horne has published over 30 books, such as The Capital of Slavery, Washington, DC, 1800 to 1865, The Dawning of the Apocalypse, The Roots of Slavery, White Supremacy, Settler Colonialism, and Capitalism in the Long [00:02:00] 16th Century, and Bittersweet, Bitter Science, Sweet Science, Racism, Racketeering, and the Political Economy of Boxing, among many others. 
 
 

You can also watch Dr. Horne on his weekly internationalist update news show, Around the Horne, on the Activist News Network's YouTube channel. Our second guest is Anthony Tony Ballas. He is the host of the De Facto podcast and explores, which explores the intersection of radical politics, history, theory, philosophy, and culture. 
 
 

Tony is also co-host of Cold War Cinema, a podcast about the historical and political content of movies made through the Cold War. Dr. Horne and Tony have collaborated numerous times, including an October 2025 article titled Ho Chi Minh and Black Liberation for issue number six of Peace, Land, and Bread, PLB Magazine, and they also wrote an article in [00:03:00] February in the Black Agenda Report, for the Black Agenda Report, um, discussing boxing and white supremacy after the Jake Paul event on Netflix. 
 
 

Welcome to the show, Dr. Horne and Anthony  
 
 

[00:03:12] Dr. Gerald Horne: Thank you for inviting me.  
 
 

[00:03:15] Anthony Ballas: Yes, thank you for having us, Miguel.  
 
 

[00:03:17] Miguel: Appreciate it. Um, if you guys wanna plug anything, anything else. Um, I know Anthony is a host of the, uh, Cold War podcast.  
 
 

[00:03:27] Anthony Ballas: Cold War Cinema  
 
 

[00:03:28] Miguel: Project. Oh, Cold Cinema podcast. Yeah, and they, they do... This is the type of stuff I like, 'cause they're using, like, art, film. 
 
 

Like, I use sports to talk about politics, geopolitics. Yeah. Specifically history with the Cold War. And, uh, Dr. Horne has his show on YouTube, the Activist, uh, News Network. Um, Around the Horne, one of my favorite shows. I watch it as much as I can every week. Uh, I think he just had a episode come out yesterday from this recording. 
 
 

We're recording today, the June 18th. Um, so very [00:04:00] excited, and Dr. Horne's written a lot of great books that, uh, I've... Some of the ones I'm a big fan of are The Bittersweet Science. We're obviously gonna talk about combat sports today. Um, I have his book, um, there's a few books. I know he has a new book that just came out. 
 
 

Um, it was, uh, it has to do with Washington, D.C., and slavery. I can't remember the name of the book right now. I have it written down in-  
 
 

[00:04:27] Dr. Gerald Horne: The Capital of  
 
 

[00:04:27] Miguel: Slavery: Washington, D.C.  
 
 

[00:04:29] Dr. Gerald Horne: 1800  
 
 

[00:04:32] Miguel: to 1865 ... technically. Capital of Slavery. Okay, okay. And I'm- puts the links to a lot of his books, his website. Um, I haven't re- gotten that book yet. 
 
 

I'm looking forward to it. You got so many books, so I'm trying to catch up to them. Um, and Anthony, I know you're also a PhD student at Duke. You've, you and Dr. Horne have worked, um, collaborated the last couple years. You guys recently, um, wrote an article for Black Agenda Report. I don't know if you just wanna mention that real quick-  
 
 

[00:04:58] Anthony Ballas: Sure,  
 
 

[00:04:59] Miguel: yeah 
 
 

a few [00:05:00]  
 
 

[00:05:00] Anthony Ballas: months ago. S- I think this was back in January or maybe early February, or late January, I think. We had a piece on, uh, called Shadow Boxing With Ghosts on whiteness, Jake Paul, and the crisis of US imperialism, where we explore probably some of the themes that we'll be talking about today  
 
 

[00:05:17] Miguel: And I'll put a link in the show notes to that article if you guys missed it back in January when it came out. 
 
 

Um, so let's get it started, um, after some issues, um, with the technology. Oh, man. So I don't know. On Sunday, I watched it. I'm actually... I like UFC. I like boxing, but I'm more of a boxing fan. Grew up, I'm Chicano. I'm Mexican. Um, so boxing's like a big thing in our culture. Um, I like UFC, but lately, the last few years, I don't watch it as much. 
 
 

So too much of the... A lot of right-wing MAGA politics, very, um, influential in MMA right now and UFC, so it's... I watch it, but not as much as I like to watch other [00:06:00] sports and boxing. But Sunday was another spectacle, and that was the whole point of it, I guess, from Trump, the Trump administration and Dana White. 
 
 

Um, but what are your, both of your thoughts on the event? Um, especially like, for example, when they started the event, Donald Trump and Dana White walked out together through the White House out to the South Lawn where the ring was at. Um, they did that whole spectacle. It really reminded me of WWE a lot. 
 
 

So I don't know. What are your, both of your thoughts on the whole spectacle of the event?  
 
 

[00:06:36] Anthony Ballas: Well-  
 
 

[00:06:37] Dr. Gerald Horne: An- Anthony, you can lead off ...  
 
 

[00:06:38] Anthony Ballas: okay, sure. You know, in many ways it's, um, a, a sort of lack surprise i- i- i- with the whole affair. Um, this whole... There's nothing really to be shocked by at this point, uh, with this sort of spectacle. 
 
 

It's something that we've gotten used to. Uh, this is just sort of a continuation of other forms of imperial theater that, uh, the Trump administration [00:07:00] has been engaged in. I'm reminded of the military parade from a calendar year ago when he, uh, on June 14th of 2025, which you could perhaps read as the sequel to this event. 
 
 

Um, but I don't want it to, you know, to just consider this to be something normalized, although it oftentimes very is in US society, this sort of, uh, spectacle. So even though I'm personally not shocked by it, I understand that people are very shocked to see this sort of thing manifest on the White House lawn whilst the East Wing of the, uh, White House is being deconstructed and, uh, apparently reconstructed into a sort of ballroom. 
 
 

So but when you look at the sort of historical picture of US empire and its relationship to combat sports and to masculinity and to spectacles of this nature, you really start to see a pattern. Th- and that's something that we endeavored to write about in that piece that you mentioned from, from this last February. 
 
 

So my initial thoughts are that this is a sort of continuation whilst also understanding that [00:08:00] this is a, a, a particularly grotesque manifestation thereof  
 
 

[00:08:05] Dr. Gerald Horne: I would only add that in some ways, th- the event of June 14th had echoes and vibrations of the decline of the Roman Empire. That is to say, it was not coincidental in my estimation that as these bouts were unfolding, Mr. 
 
 

Trump was putting an electronic signature to the memorandum of understanding with the Islamic Republic of Iran, basically signifying yet another staggering defeat for US imperialism. And then it was followed by this gladiator-type battle, once again echoes and vibrations of late-stage Roman Empire, with credible rumors and scuttle- scuttlebutt [00:09:00] floating in the ether that perhaps the bouts were fixed, that this may have been another example of what Mr. 
 
 

Trump specializes in, which is insider trading and market manipulation. Reputedly, a member of the Trump family asked for confirmation or denial of this allegation that the bouts were fixed. Apparently, he wanted to get in on the action, so to speak. And then to cap it all off, the fighters were paid in Trump crypto. 
 
 

And my own recommendation as a non-licensed e- economic analyst is that they convert that crypto to Chinese renminbi sooner rather than later, before that particular bank crashes. So in some ways, [00:10:00] June 14th was an exemplar, was an example of not only the decline of an empire, but late-stage imperialism 
 
 

[00:10:15] Miguel: Um, like I mentioned, it reminded me of WWE, the whole presentation, and we know Donald Trump's connection to the World Wrestling Entertainment, formerly the WWF when I was a kid in the '90s, um, World Wrestling Federation. He's actually in their Hall of Fame. He knows the whole-- how that show runs, how that spectacle runs, how to make it entertaining. 
 
 

You even talk about this in your Bittersweet Science book about how wrestling during this, the early nine- the, you know, 1920s, '30s, boxing was very, you know, much more popular. Um, but in wrestling, in order to get some of that popularity, like upped their antics and their entertainment and how they, like, [00:11:00] how they showcased that spectacle to gain more fans. 
 
 

And I think boxing even kinda leaned off that, learned off that. Um, we've seen that with boxing. Boxing does the spectacle too throughout the history of boxing with different, uh, points in history. A lot of times, Dr. Horne mentioned in his book, you know, ra- his po- boxing is intertwined with politics, with geopolitics, with race, with all this stuff, right? 
 
 

And it's always, there's all these moments in boxing and other sports that I could think of where it's tied into politics or the issues of the time of race and all that, and then also used... I don't know. I call this sports as a weapon. My whole thing was it's more of a to use it for resistance, but also the two double-edged swords. 
 
 

Sports can be used in the other direction, like the whole bread and circus that people like to-- people that aren't usually sports fans will critique and use that. Um, but [00:12:00] yeah. And then I know even in your article that you guys both wrote with Black Ag- uh, for the Black Agenda Report on Jake Paul and that whole spectacle, you mentioned crypto Dr. 
 
 

Horne. He was, he's a YouTuber, former Disney star. He also was involved in crypto. Um, and then even in that article, you mentioned, uh, Idiocracy, the movie, and that whole, the whole spectacle of this event reminded me of that as well, that whole film. And in that film, the president is a former wrestler. Like, the actor Terry Crews plays that character. 
 
 

Like, this whole thing just reminded me of all this, all this. And as Dr. Horne is saying, this is just a sign of the decline of, of US imperialism Um, but to go, like we kind of, I mentioned him a little bit, Dana White. Um, and you talk about this in your book, The Bitter Seed Sci- Science. You talk about, uh, these promoters in boxing. 
 
 

Um, you mentioned in your book there was this promoter named [00:13:00] Uncle Mike Jacobs. He was the supreme ruler of the sport during that era, as you said. And the, and then you talk about other, uh, promoters, even Don King. Um, but do you see any-- what would you say about Dana White in comparison to these past boxing promoters? 
 
 

Like, is there any, what differences, what similarities do you see  
 
 

[00:13:21] Dr. Gerald Horne: Well, at least from what I've read, Dana White says that he does not see himself as being a political person. Uh, now set aside for a moment his frequent appearances in Mar-a-Lago, the fact that he's attracted Donald J. Trump as an investor. 
 
 

Even set aside the fact that one of the fighters, in quite a flourish, decided to insult Michelle Obama, which was then repudiated by Dana White. So that latter point perhaps [00:14:00] underscores his self-description as being not a political person, but that's like being a gambler in a casino and then saying that you're not into gambling. 
 
 

I mean, the very essence- Mm-hmm ... of what he's doing, particularly at the White House on Mr. Trump's 80th birthday, it reeks of politics, for example. So perhaps he's trying to have it both ways.  
 
 

[00:14:39] Anthony Ballas: I'll only add that, um, if he claims to be a non-political person, he is front and center in the ring and outside the ring as a free speech champion, and he often polices the speech of his, uh, fighters who are contracted with him whilst he... 
 
 

they're fighting in the ring. For instance, [00:15:00] I think I saw this report on the, um, A More Perfect Union on, on some of Da- Dana White's political depredations, wherein he is penalizing his fighters for, um, talking about their wages and talking about, um, their contracts in the ring and asking for a certain, um, um, uh, dollar amount when, when they, when they are, uh, um, compete in, in, in the ring. 
 
 

Uh, doing so in public rather. And so for a s- free speech warrior, uh, he certainly, uh, has had his hand in, in putting the clamps on the free speech of his, uh, fighters. And then of course also he has stipulated in the contracts with many of his fighters, perhaps most of them, I don't know if there's been any reforms r- recently, I doubt it, that they are to be, um, classified as independent contractors, and therefore they have to purchase their own gym equipment, their own, um, gym memberships, hire their own trainers, and they are capped at [00:16:00] making something under $20,000 a, a year, um, uh, most of the time, unless they're these big breakout, you know, stars and so forth. 
 
 

So, you know, he really... He, he does resemble, I think in many ways, these promoters from the 20th century in that regard in exploiting the labor of, of the fighters.  
 
 

[00:16:18] Miguel: Yeah, and then go- going back to when I mentioned, like, wrestling, professional wrestling, WWE, we have that historical context of Vince McMahon also, like, union busting when they were trying to organize in the '90s, and even Hulk Hogan was one of those wrestlers he used to, to, to bust their union, um, efforts. 
 
 

Um, yeah, Dana White did... He has been, like, very anti-labor, and I know fighters had in the past actually tried to organize. Um, I had a guest on a couple years ago when I first started this podcast. Um, her book was called Fighting Visibility, and she talked about these UFC fighters trying to organize, and [00:17:00] pretty much they would get retaliated to or somehow, you know, they wouldn't get the better fights. 
 
 

I forgot the specific, uh, fighter it was, but it was one of the... It was a f- a female fighter. Um, and they didn't-- She was supposed to get another bigger fight, and they, like, gave her some lesser fight, and it was, she felt like it was retaliation in, like, these interviews in the book. Um, but there's, he's had that history of being anti, uh, labor, and like you said, a lot, most of these UFC fighters do not make that much money. 
 
 

Um And you would think with how much UFC makes, they would be making more, but that's also just the way the capitalists, they work. They want to exploit your labor and keep all the profits to themselves. So to me, Dana White's just the new 21st century type of a promoter like from these in the past with boxing and boxing's heyday. 
 
 

And he's just like any other capitalist marketing his product, trying to profit as much as he [00:18:00] can. And I am, for football, I'm a Raider fan and doesn't something I always, I can't forget about is the Raiders pretty much UFC, like a lot of their UFC owned, part of the ownership of UFC is also part of the Raider ownership now. 
 
 

They're like a minority owner, ownership stake. It's the company, I can't remember the exact name of the company right now, but they're like pretty much, if Mark Davis passes away, one of them might become the owner, the majority owner of the Raiders. So they've connected themselves in Las Vegas with the Raiders. 
 
 

Even I'm a Raider fan, I don't know what Mark Davis' politics are, but Max Crosby is, he doesn't say he's MAGA from the Raiders, but he's always praising Trump. He goes to these events. He's always hanging out with Dana White. It's something I've noticed as a fan. It's something I don't like, but there's just some connection I've seen there with the whole Vegas and Vegas [00:19:00] connection to the mob as well and the past with boxing. 
 
 

Like that's just something I can't escape in thinking about when it comes to how UFC operates and how this whole machine operates with capitalism and imperialism and white supremacy. Also As far as the fight card, I felt like there were some moments that they were trying to do like a Great White Hope, even though it wasn't as explicit, um, with some of the fights. 
 
 

Uh, just like with Jeffries and Jack Johnson back in the day, um, like we had the fights within Gaethje versus Topuria, who's Spanish and Georgian, Georgian from Georgia, his family. Um, and he's fighting Gaethje, who actually is actually, uh, his mother's Mexican, but he, he mentions it a little bit, but it's very obvious his identity is to, to whiteness. 
 
 

Um, and the way the-- when we're talking about [00:20:00] fixing and matches, like it was too hard for me to not think that it might be 'cause, uh, one of them was undefeated and supposed to be one of the alt- upcoming to be one of the greatest like UFC fighters ever in, um, with, uh, Topuria. But here's the underdog Gaethje wins on Trump's birthday and like they're all praising Trump after. 
 
 

They're seeing like, you know, they're very, being patriotic. It was-- it's hard for me not to think like, "Hey, maybe there's something going on here," especially with the WWE past of Trump and all that. Um, but what, what are your thoughts of all these, uh, these fights? It was very bloody, a lot of the matches. 
 
 

All of them were knockouts, it seemed like, I think. Um, but yeah, I th- there was a couple of matches where I thought there was a kind of like a, some hints of the Great White Hope stuff  
 
 

[00:20:50] Dr. Gerald Horne: Well, it's striking that you've had all these stories lately about, uh, gambling in sports, which is not necessarily surprising given [00:21:00] the role of this industry is now playing. 
 
 

I mean, if you look at ESPN, for example, it seems that the logos, every other commercials from DraftKings or one of these other setups where you can bet on virtually anything, whether the next pitch will be a fastball or a slider, or whether this particular player will miss a free throw or clank a free throw. 
 
 

And given the expansion of professional sports into Las Vegas, not only with regard to your Raiders, but also the A's, the, the erstwhile Oakland Sacramento A's, who perhaps as soon as next year, certainly by 2028, will be playing in the city of Sin. And that's not even to count this recent football player, quarterback recruited [00:22:00] by Texas Tech, formerly of Indiana University, where he confessed to betting on his own team, for example. 
 
 

And Texas Tech put forward the story that he has a gambling addiction, it would be discriminatory to bar him from NCAA sports. And he actually won his suit, but then at the last moment decided to enter the National Football League supplemental draft. And it'll be interesting to see what will be the reaction, uh, with regard to teams that line up to recruit him or to sign him, uh, particularly, I would say from the Phoenix Cardinals, who are not far distant from Las Vegas and feel that they are in need of a quarterback But, uh, once again, uh, I [00:23:00] think the proliferation of gambling is redolent of this incipient decline of US imperialism and, and its dying gasp, for example. 
 
 

Uh, speaking of which, we should not turn away from June 14th without mentioning the presence of Mark Zuckerberg of Meta Facebook infamy, of David Ellison, whose Paramount Plus had the rights to broadcast, uh, this fiasco. And just before the broadcast, the Trump Justice Department gave a two thumbs up to Paramount, Skydance Paramount, CNN, Discovery, Warner Discovery, whatever the name is now, uh, creating this octopus-like corporation [00:24:00] which will control CBS, uh, CNN, not to mention movie studios. 
 
 

I, I should mention one point in this context that his father, uh, Larry Ellison, as you know, controls Oracle, the software company. Now, he is billed understandably as being a pro-Trump guy, although I'll-- I remember quite well when the senator from South Carolina, Uncle Tim Scott, decided to run for president. 
 
 

In the front row was Larry Ellison, and I, I was rather shocked f- by that for a number of reasons. But as oftentimes happens, uh, Mr. Trump is willing to embrace those who may not have supported him originally. Look at J.D. Vance, who, if I'm not mistaken, compared-- once compared Mr. Trump to Hitler, not to mention the other senator from South Carolina, uh, Lindsey [00:25:00] Graham, who's also spoken previously in the past in very unkind terms about, uh, Mr. 
 
 

Trump. But in any case, uh, there you have it 
 
 

[00:25:16] Miguel: Um, and I don't know if you saw, there was a, before the match, before the event on Sunday, there was a controversy on X, on Twitter, of a former UFC champion and current announcer, Daniel, Daniel Cormier. Like, he said that he, he, he tweeted out a screenshot saying that Eric Trump had messaged him asking him for insights, uh, if he knew who would win the fights 'cause he wanted to place a bet, and then they tried to claim that it was a AI fake. 
 
 

And then even that tweet where I think it was Eric Trump that said that, he even deleted that tweet. There, they didn't show any proof that it was not, that it was fake. Like it, it looked pretty real to me. Um, and then with all what's [00:26:00] going on, uh, in sports with gambling, with all the, uh, prediction markets, another form of gambling, Polymarket, they're, they were the spon- one of the sponsors of the event. 
 
 

They sponsor all types of sports, and Polymarket even gets into geopolitics, where people have been making, they were making bets on Venezuela and Iran, right, war. So, like, s- the gambling industry, these prediction markets are connect... They're merging sports and all these other parts of society even more into, like, US, uh, imperialism, 'cause this is, like, their last grasp, so they're trying to grab everything they can, um, 'cause they're, they're the dying empire really. 
 
 

I don't know how long it's gonna take, but it's looking that way. Um, but yeah, it looks like they're just trying to grasp, trying to get as much, whatever they can to profit from. Um, and to me now, this whole emergence of these prediction markets, it's just a whole new ballgame, 'cause now they've turned everything to a sport with gambling. 
 
 

You could gamble on everything, right? [00:27:00] Like I just said, they gambled on war. They gamble on all these different top things. Like, you could just pretty much gamble on anything. And so now it's just, I don't know, everything is very intertwined in this, in this, uh, current ite- iteration of, uh, US imperialism, capitalism with gambling. 
 
 

Um, it's getting insane, especially with Trump. As you said, Dr. Horne, Trump has been involved in this type of business for a while. That's the art of the deal. He knows how to, uh, to be a scammer and make some money Um, yeah, go ahead  
 
 

[00:27:39] Dr. Gerald Horne: No, that goes back to his previous life for running casinos in Atlantic City, New Jersey. 
 
 

And if I'm not mistaken, one of his many bankruptcies involved the bankruptcy of a casino. Now, how do you bankrupt a casino? I mean, when the odds are all in favor of the house, they're [00:28:00] house rules, and you basically depend upon an endless line of suckers to come into your house so that you can fleece them. 
 
 

But somehow Mr. Trump found a way to bankrupt a casino, just as now he's finding a way to bankrupt what had been thought to be the world's sole remaining superpower  
 
 

[00:28:27] Miguel: I'm like, the-- today they just-- what? Today he was talking about, we're recording today, Thursday the 18th, um, of... And today he was even talking-- I guess he, he even criticized Israel today and Netanyahu and then J.D. 
 
 

Vance also. Now they're like, it seems like now they're flipping the page and trying to, to distance themselves from what they've been a part of this whole time and try to just make it seem like it's only Israel. It's only Israel. When we-- I know like people like to [00:29:00] try to-- some people like to claim and say that, oh, Is-Israel's controlling the United States. 
 
 

No. The US is in cahoots with them, and the US-- Israel will be their client state. They just have a lot of power, um, and I, I just find it now they're distant- distancing, distancing themselves when it's so obvious that Iran beat them, and obviously they've admitted that with this, uh, contract under, um, momentum of understanding that they've signed. 
 
 

Well, they're supposed to sign tomorrow, I believe. Um, but yeah, it's interesting how with sports, even in other sports, um, when we're talking about gambling, there's a whole issue with the NBA right now, um, with some of the players and coaches that got caught in a gambling scandal. You mentioned the college football player that's gonna enter the NFL, and even from him gambling, doing the-- having these issues, you know, people do have a gambling problem. 
 
 

They-- It's an addiction, um, especially when you're in-- living in this capitalist [00:30:00] society where it's all around you. Um, but I don't know. How far is this gonna go with gambling? Like, I feel like I don't wanna sound like a conspiracy person as much as I'm a big sports fan, and I like to connect politics and sports, but everything is the tentacles of gambling and finance capital. 
 
 

Every-- It's, it's just grabbing everything and a hold of all sports. Um, like world-- the World Cup's going on right now. With all those issues going on with the World Cup, um, what are your thoughts just overall, not just this event, but with the other sports, um, and how it's contributing to this whole decline of US imperialism and how they're trying to use sports to, to try to, to keep the ship from sinking? 
 
 

I don't know if you wanna say something, Abby, or  
 
 

[00:30:51] Anthony Ballas: Well, I mean, it's, I think it's very much what you were just sort of riffing on, which is that these speculative markets are opened up in a time of, of crisis [00:31:00] and economic decline to sort of, to sort of try to capture the last bit at an accelerated pace. 
 
 

Because, you know, these crypto markets are 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. They're, they're, they're very unregulated, and that, the same goes for these, um, speculative gambling markets. They're very unregulated, and you can, as you've been putting it, gamble on pretty much anything. And so that sort of, um, financial capture is taking place, uh, and it's been advertised on e- all these sports, uh, pretty much every sport you can imagine a- and more. 
 
 

Uh, m- my thoughts are, uh, just that. I mean, we're not really, um... I, I will say, uh, what really differentiates these sorts of markets from the, from the stock market itself, you know- Mm-hmm ... other than the time in which the stock market is perhaps open, and, and certain regulations that have accumulated, uh, over the decades, uh, uh, [00:32:00] uh, vis-a-vis policy. 
 
 

Uh, fi- finance capital is, um, uh, always been a safety valve in these sorts of economic crises, and I think we're seeing something very similar right now, although at an accelerated pace, and with the, uh, c- curtain perhaps closing on the, uh, project of US imperialism more definitively than, than perhaps, uh, other times in US history  
 
 

[00:32:27] Dr. Gerald Horne: Well, I would also add with regard to the World Cup, it's really shameful the way the Iranian team is being treated. 
 
 

Uh, they played in Los Angeles the other day. They had to arrive from across the border in Mexico, play the game, and then leave and go back to Mexico. Unlike other teams, like the New Zealanders, who they were able to tie, uh, were able to reside, uh, in sunny Southern California [00:33:00] it- itself. But the World Cup, it'll, it'll be a very interesting story. 
 
 

Uh, it, it reminds me in some ways of US college sports. In US college sports, you know that under the Trump regime, there has been a curtailment and a cutback with regard to admission of, uh, Black students in particular. Although, if you tune into college sports, you'll see that there's hasn't necessarily been a comparable diminishing of their ranks with regard to the basketball team, the track and field team, the football team, et cetera. 
 
 

And then if you look at these, uh, World Cup contenders, uh, look at France, for example, uh, where oftentimes the lineup is studded with Africans [00:34:00] from the former French colonies or from former so-called French Caribbean. Uh, one of the stars of the Spanish team happens to be of African descent as well. And so what's remarkable is, like US colleges, these European nations s- tend to look askance at Africans crossing the border to work, for example, but you can cross the border if you're a good footballer and join their team. 
 
 

Even Spain, which has a social democratic regime and has welcomed many from Venezuela and from Latin America, has drawn the line at welcoming people from what is commonly referred to as Sub-Saharan Africa, for example. So as this podcast tend to suggest, there is an [00:35:00] intersection between sport and politics, and oftentimes it's not a friendly intersection  
 
 

[00:35:10] Miguel: Nope. 
 
 

And then I think whenever they try to use sports for resistance, they shut you... They do whatever they can to stop you. Like we s- we saw what they did to, uh, Colin Kaepernick. Um, that was one of the inspirations of, for me creating this, uh, podcast. Um, we've seen what happened to him. We've seen even Kyrie Irving speaking up for Palestine and all he's, all he's received from the media, all that backlash, um, a couple years ago. 
 
 

Not so much lately, but whenever athletes speak up. I even remember, uh, in 2014, the former NBA superstar Dwight Howard Tweeted something about the, uh, when, uh, y- uh, Israel had attacked Gaza in 2014. He tweeted something in support of [00:36:00] Palestine, and then couple minutes later he removed it. And we'll always... 
 
 

He never mentioned why, but years later, I believe earlier this year, he went on a podcast and finally said, "Oh, the, the NBA Adam Silver," I think it was Adam Silver, David Stern was already retired, "called me and had me take it off, like remove my tweet." So he finally admitted it over 10 years later. They told him to take it off because he was supporting Palestine, and that was back in 2014. 
 
 

Um, so going into how sports and politics intersect, I also wanna talk about from this UFC freedom event, there is, uh, something I didn't actually really know about until after I watched the event and I was preparing for this episode that we're recording. UFC has entered into a sponsor- sponsorship with a, uh, AI military startup called Anduril Industries. 
 
 

Um, and UFC [00:37:00] actually used a lot of AI, uh, imagery throughout their event. Like, I think they showed a AI image of like, um, McGre- uh, the fighter McGregor, who's gonna, he's gonna come back and fight next month, and it didn't even look like him. Um, but I found it interesting that there is this new partnership where, like you mentioned earlier, Dr. 
 
 

Horne, that Dana White tries to proclaim that he's not political. But here he is entering into a sponsorship with a AI, um, military startup. Um, and this startup also in this announcement, they did this press release. I'll put the link in the show, show notes for this. Um, they talked about how their, this AI, AI company is also gonna do some like, they're gonna do a spectacle of MMA, and they're gonna create some tournament, a, uh, military themed boxing event. 
 
 

So they're gonna partner with some other company as well as UFC, and then they're gonna have this military, I don't know, they didn't say when it's gonna come up in the future. But what, what are [00:38:00] your, both of your thoughts on this partnership with a AI military, a drone startup company?  
 
 

[00:38:06] Dr. Gerald Horne: Mm-hmm. Well, Eric Trump apparently is in- investing in the same area. 
 
 

If I'm not mistaken, the company that you mentioned, the founder is Palmer Luckey, who has a reputation stemming from Silicon Valley, and if I'm not mistaken as well, he's an in-law of the former Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz. G-A-E-T-Z. You may recall that he was an early designee by Mr. Trump to be attorney general until he was sidelined by various scandals, uh, too spicy to mention on a family podcast such as this one, for example So once again, I think they seem to be working overtime to give us material [00:39:00] that will demonstrate once again how US imperialism is in inevitable decline  
 
 

[00:39:11] Anthony Ballas: I'm not sure I have very much to add other than these AI companies are getting embedded in all sorts of cultural manifestations. 
 
 

Um, w- whenever you hear talk of y- um, UFOs and UAPs and NHI, that's all, you 
 
 

know, cultural code word for artificial intelligence. And I think that th- getting in... Th- this AI company and merging with, uh, UFC and, uh, this, this other boxing company that Dana White has allegedly kind of started. By, by the way, of course, D- Dana White has been wanting to seize the boxing market for about two decades, and it seems like he finally feels as though he can do so after he, uh, showcases the UFC on the White House lawn. 
 
 

But this is, uh, part of a wider cultural manifestation, I would suggest, where [00:40:00] normalizing the plot of artificial intelligence in the minds of consumers, but also lubricating thus the idea that, um, this technology is going to be commonplace in our military apparatus, uh, p- surveilling the borders as this company that, uh, that you have asked us about, uh, is s- slated to, uh, survey the US-Mexico border with its drone technology. 
 
 

And so I think it's just part of this wider manifestation that we're seeing in all sorts... I mean, we're... This week, did not Steven Spielberg release a film about UFOs and non-human intelligence and so forth? It's, it's part of the, it's part of the cultural matrix that we're currently living in, I think, and therefore used f- toward those ideological ends, and we're seeing that manifest in the world of combat sports as well. 
 
 

[00:40:49] Miguel: Um, and then I don't know if I... Even, uh, the parent company of UFC is also now the, has been the parent company for, of the WWE a couple years now. So as you were [00:41:00] mentioning, Dana White, you know, he's been trying to capture the boxing industry. He already has the pro wrestling as well, like with the parent company he's, he's a part of. 
 
 

They had a... They bought it a couple years ago when Vince McMahon had that scandal and had to resign, um, which is also the same company that I mentioned that's bought into the Raiders. Um, so all, it's... I wouldn't... It looks like he is starting a new boxing company, Dana White, and he's gonna probably attempt to really get a, get, get ahold of that in, of the boxing industry. 
 
 

Um, and right now there's... I don't know, I would say as much as I'm a bigger boxing fan, I would say UFC is much more popular at the moment, um, in the US, particularly since, since Trump took power, I feel like I've seen that, that MAGA influence just gain momentum with the UFC. Um, ev- every time I watch UFC, there's... 
 
 

I get reminded of, of the MAGA [00:42:00] influence that has taken over, um, US, which is just white supremacy. But, um, any other thoughts you guys have about this event? Uh, Dana White said he wasn't probably planning to ever do another event like that. I don't know if I believe him, 'cause it's all about making money. 
 
 

Um, and be- at the end of the event, if, since I was watching the post, uh, analysis and Joe Rogan try to call this the greatest night in UFC history. Um, and also I even saw the, uh, the Twitter right-wing MAGA influencer, um, can't remember his name right now. I have it written right here. Uh, Jake Po- Posevik also tweeted. 
 
 

He tweeted like a photo of the event, like with all the flashing lights with the, the, the octagon in the background and the White House, and he tweeted, um, are they r- uh, he tweeted, "We're witnessing the [00:43:00] end of the left in real time." So like at least these MAGA influencers, these people aligned with Trump seem to think that this event's gonna propel US imperialism and white supremacy to, to keep it going and get stronger, even though I don't think that's what's happening. 
 
 

But what are your, what are your, both of your thoughts are of them thinking about that, uh, before we end this show? 
 
 

[00:43:28] Dr. Gerald Horne: I'll defer  
 
 

[00:43:30] Anthony Ballas: Well, I'll, I'll just say that, uh, t- to me, these guys like Rogan or Pobojak, they seem like, uh, uh, promoters just like Dana White is a promoter. Uh, allegedly apolitical, but clearly involved in marketing this sport and the politics that are attached to this sport. And so they are, in many ways, expected to make these sorts of pronouncements, no matter how delusional they may sound. 
 
 

Um, uh, in many ways, White or, um, [00:44:00] Pobojak, Rogan and so forth, r- really these promoters like Dana White, they're, they're, they're sort of through line back to the 19th century of people like, um, PT Barnum. Uh, you have to say that this is the greatest show on earth. They, they, they're trying to string you along for, for the next ride, you know? 
 
 

Um, that's sort of my immediate reaction to what these, uh, these announcers and so forth, uh, have to say as to h- how they are characterizing this particular event. But I think they are trying to continue a sort of right-wing politics. I mean, but MAGA is itself in crisis, and maybe Dr. Horne has something further to say about this. 
 
 

There's these splits in MAGA which are taking place concurrently to this event and to the, uh, memorandu- memorandum of understanding that was signed by Trump to put an abatement and put a stop to the, uh, military encounter, military engagement with Iran. And that has caused an yet another rift in the MAGA world. 
 
 

So in, in some sense, perhaps these promoters and these announcers and this, these figures that are [00:45:00] behind these sorts of sports are seeking to unify a MAGA front that is itself in crisis.  
 
 

[00:45:06] Dr. Gerald Horne: Well, to be sure, and you need l- look no further for evidence of that crisis- To look specifically at the aftermath of the memorandum of understanding inked by Mr. 
 
 

Trump just this past week, bringing this conflict with Iran to a new stage. You should expect significant fallout. The Zionist lobby and Israel leadership itself are up in arms. And I dare say that this is only the beginning, because there's no question that this has been a staggeringly profound setback for US imperialism, perhaps ranking even now with what happened in April 1975 with the ignominious US evacuation pullout from [00:46:00] Vietnam. 
 
 

P.T. Barnum was referenced, and he is oftentimes associated with the statement that in this country there's a sucker born every minute. And if you look at the ups and downs of the stock market, if you look at the proliferation of insider trading, particularly since February 28th and the onset of the war in Iran, it seemed as if every Friday Mr. 
 
 

Trump would make one statement to affect and influence the markets, and then on Monday morning or Tuesday morning he'd make another statement to send the stock market in another direction. So once again, we should not see this as coincidental or accidental. It's reflection of a dying empire, and the only question [00:47:00] is what will be the collateral damage of this impending collapse? 
 
 

[00:47:07] Miguel: And unfortunately, that collateral damage is gonna affect a lot of us, right?  
 
 

[00:47:11] Dr. Gerald Horne: Mm-hmm.  
 
 

[00:47:11] Miguel: Um, the working class, uh, the rest of us that aren't part of the, uh, bourgeois class or have this, um, this... There's gonna be blowback. Um, in my... I had a pre- Last episode, or two episodes ago, did a World Cup in Mexico episode, um, with a historian, Alex Aveña, and we, we were talking about, oh, 'cause I know, you know, U- the US has been threatening Mexico, and it kinda feels like they're kinda aiming to target them once they could take care of Venezuela and may- and what they're attempting with Cuba, and, like, eventually they're gonna come... 
 
 

And for me, I s- as a mas- masters of anthropologists, I didn't, I didn't... I'm [00:48:00] anthropologists. I have a master's. I don't have a PhD. I didn't continue. Um, but part of my research was to examine the Latino threat narrative and how that's been building, especially for, um, spec- just all Latinos, but specifically my community, 'cause we're the largest one, Mexicans. 
 
 

Um, and then while we're close to the border, right? We're the next-door neighbor. Mexico's the next-door neighbor, and then, you know, the US was part of Mexico. Um, or Mexico was, this part of California was Mexico at one point. Um, there's, there's this continuing threat that they- They seem to feel it's coming because they know it's the white mis- their, their empire and white supremacy is dying, and, um, everyone else from the Global South and every- we've, we n- we see that the US empire is... 
 
 

I think everyone is kind of, has seen that it's fallen. But that threat's coming, and now they wanna come for Mexico as [00:49:00] well. Um, so we'll s- we'll see where everything's going, but right now everything's intertwining with sport. Like, the World Cup, um, right now is going on. There's so much politics with the UFC. 
 
 

Uh, this is why I do this show, um, to talk about these things and tie it into sport. Um, but Jake, you mentioned Jake, before we go, you mentioned Jake Paul even trying to use Latino identity. He's not even Latino, but he moved to Puerto Rico, right? And he's calling himself El Gallo, which is rooster.  
 
 

[00:49:33] Anthony Ballas: Right.  
 
 

[00:49:33] Miguel: Um, yeah, and so he's even using that, trying to use that identity when he's trying to steal it, 'cause there's, they know that white supremacy is dying, and they're just trying to find some, some way to take control of what, what they can before this empire dies. 
 
 

But I don't know where I was going with that, but-  
 
 

[00:49:50] Anthony Ballas: It gives him, it gives him a, a modicum of, of legitim- It legitimates his identity such that he can treat Puerto Rico as a tax haven whilst also laundering his personal [00:50:00] biography as though he has anything to do with boxing after deciding to be a boxer, you know, in his mid-20s, and he's probably in his late 20s or early 30s now. 
 
 

And so that was part, you know, that's part of the settler colonial sort of identity project, uh, identity politics of whiteness such that you don that sort of identity in order to assimilate and thus make claims to the land, and Jake Paul seems to be a sort of a con- continuation of that, uh, localized in the Caribbean, um, in, in Puerto Rico. 
 
 

But then I just wanna say one other thing, and that's that, um, in that piece we wrote, we use the allegory that the United States is like an aged, hobbled fighter still inta- with the strength still intact, but the strategy not really there, and no real ide- i- idea of what victory would even look like at this point. 
 
 

In other words, waging any war, waging, um, any sort of conflict is inevitably going to be pyrrhic for a dying empire, and I think that we are witnessing that. [00:51:00] But that does not mean that, especially in the, in Latin America and the Caribbean, where the US war machine has been hy- hyper-accelerated as of the 1st of January with the kidnapping of Maduro and Celia Flores and these extrajudicial and extraterritorial, um, drone strikes on Trinidadian, uh, fishermen and so forth- The, the United States is still dangerous even though it is in decline, and, and that's sort of what we were trying to get at in the, in this piece. 
 
 

So Venezuela, Cuba, Mexico, the- these places still need to remain ever vigilant, uh, of the US war machine, clearly 
 
 

[00:51:43] Miguel: Um, and Jack Johnson even had to go to Mexico in exile pretty much, if we wanna tie it back to boxing and Latin America. Like, there's issues over there, you know, because of colonialisms and all the, and [00:52:00] US imperialism. Um, but even these places have been places where, you know, people of African American descent could go to. 
 
 

Uh, like in sports, it was for, they even, baseball players even went over there when, for the Negro Leagues 'cause they couldn't play. Um But so I, I don't know where I'm going with this but so I don't know. There's a lot of stuff going on right now in the world, uh, with sports, with geopolitics, um, and then right now with Iran. 
 
 

Um, I was just at a World Cup protest on Saturday at Levi's Stadium, um, part of a Black Alliance for Peace anti-football-- anti-fascist football coalition, and we even had a-- we ran into a Iranian monarchist. So we even have people from these countries that are being attacked, you know, that are from the right wing, obviously, uh, still believing in [00:53:00] US, uh, democracy and US superiority, kinda have that, uh, colonized mindset themselves and will do anything to even fight for that, that, uh, that power that colonized them. 
 
 

Um, so I haven't ran into someone like that in a while, uh, at a protest. Uh, and I used to live in San Jose, so it was-- he was-- it was interest-- There wasn't even a f-- There wasn't-- Iran wasn't even, like, in-- wasn't even having their game there, and here he came just to agitate us, um, with what's going on right now. 
 
 

Uh, so with sports, everything, everything's connecting with politics to sports. You do a podcast on movies and, like, history of Cold War. There's all these things that I feel we-- people should do to try to get people to discuss politics and to see how we could fight these systems that are taking the fun out of the sports that we love [00:54:00] because of capitalism. 
 
 

Um, we, we see examples in Cuba. It doesn't have to be controlled by capitalism. Like UFC, boxing, we could have a better world, uh, if they weren't controlled by those, uh, those gangsters, those mobsters, those capitalists that are con-- ever right now controlling the sports world. Um, 'cause I'm a big sports fan. 
 
 

I've been my whole life. Uh, obviously, I do this show, but I'm also became a radical, became political. Um, so I'm very just grateful that you guys came on the show to talk about this topic. Uh, I'm not a big UFC fan, and that's why I watch it every once in a while. I'm more of a bigger boxing fan. Um, but it was just interesting having to watch this event Sunday, uh, just to try to... 
 
 

It's just a microcosm of US imperialism right now and its decline. So I appreciate you all coming on the show.  
 
 

[00:54:55] Dr. Gerald Horne: Well, thank you for inviting us. Thank you for inviting me, and I'm afraid I'm gonna have to sign [00:55:00] off, but, uh, good luck.  
 
 

[00:55:02] Miguel: Thank you, Dr. Horne. Have a good one.  
 
 

[00:55:04] Dr. Gerald Horne: Mm-hmm.  
 
 

[00:55:04] Anthony Ballas: Yes, thank you very much, Miguel.  
 
 

[00:55:07] Miguel: All right, and then I'll put the sh- links to, uh, s- Dr. 
 
 

Horne's, uh, some of his books and then some of the work you've done with Dr. Horne, and then some of the stuff- Thank you ... we talked about on the topic, uh, for today. Uh, so appreciate you coming on the podcast, Anthony. Yeah.  
 
 

[00:55:22] Anthony Ballas: Yeah,  
 
 

[00:55:22] Miguel: no problem. And, uh, I'll be listening to your show. I know you're gonna make an announcement soon-  
 
 

[00:55:26] Anthony Ballas: Yeah 
 
 

[00:55:26] Miguel: uh, with some projects, so looking forward to that.  
 
 

[00:55:29] Anthony Ballas: Yeah, we got a big one in the works, and it's about 98% finished as of this last weekend. And so I hope that our readers and listeners and your viewers and your listeners will, uh, will hear good news soon on that front.  
 
 

[00:55:44] Miguel: All right. Um, I'll be in touch, and if that comes out, that news comes out before I post this episode, uh-  
 
 

[00:55:50] Anthony Ballas: Oh, I  
 
 

[00:55:50] Miguel: doubt, I  
 
 

[00:55:51] Anthony Ballas: doubt it will 
 
 

[00:55:51] Miguel: I'll put that, the information.  
 
 

[00:55:52] Anthony Ballas: Yeah.  
 
 

[00:55:53] Miguel: We'll see. All right. That,  
 
 

[00:55:53] Anthony Ballas: that's very hopeful, but, uh, we'll see.  
 
 

[00:55:55] Miguel: Okay, okay, appreciate it. Um, and then thank you for, uh, [00:56:00] hanging in there. We had some technical difficulties.  
 
 

[00:56:02] Anthony Ballas: Hey, it happens. I, I, I know it, you know, it, it, it's no one's fault. That, that's the sort of thing that happens. 
 
 

[00:56:08] Miguel: All right. So I'll end the podcast. Thank you everyone for coming on the podcast. It was good to have Anthony and Dr. Horne on the podcast. And, uh, thank you for watching and listening to another episode of the Sports as a Weapon podcast.  
 
 

[00:56:22] Anthony Ballas: Great. Thank you, Miguel.