Seeking Center: The Podcast

The Afterlife: The Presence of Proof - Episode 16

May 23, 2022 Robyn Miller Brecker, Karen Loenser and Deborah Hanlon Season 2 Episode 16
The Afterlife: The Presence of Proof - Episode 16
Seeking Center: The Podcast
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Seeking Center: The Podcast
The Afterlife: The Presence of Proof - Episode 16
May 23, 2022 Season 2 Episode 16
Robyn Miller Brecker, Karen Loenser and Deborah Hanlon

We met Deborah Hanlon through what we think is always the best way to meet someone,  synchronicity. Let’s just say that this conversation has been divinely orchestrated by our collective family and friends on the other side. And wait until you hear what happened at our very first meeting.

Deborah refers to herself as an “intuitive medium,” which she’ll tell you all about. Deborah’s curiosity and exploration started at an early age, and was triggered by the loss of her four-year old brother, when she was three-years-old. Since then she’s been on a life-long journey of discovery using science and self to find proof of what she knew deep inside, that life after death exists. She knew her brother was still around because she was able to communicate with him. Her commitment to deepen her awareness in science and spirituality, has led Deborah to become a trusted expert for matters of our hearts and souls.

Her focus as a medium is to help the living transition their own ‘afterlife.” Her ability to translate specific messages with such clarity has already helped heal thousands during her sessions, which we have had the privilege to experience first hand.

In her book, “In The Presence of Proof: A Medium’s Guide to Creating Heaven on Earth,” which we’ll discuss, she provides guidance to find peace with loss and introduces the reality that one can experience the afterlife each and every day. There is an afterlife to every moment, situation, sadness, relationship, job and even to your former self. Think about that!

Deborah wants to help lift people up in every way however she can – whether that’s through her sessions, workshops or her book. We cover so much in our conversation. Listen now.

Visit Deborah's site to find out all of the many ways you can work with Deborah.

You can follow Deborah on Facebook and Instagram @imdeborahhanlon

You can buy Deborah's book, "In the Presence of Proof," on her website or on

Visit for more from Robyn + Karen, plus mega inspo -- and the best wellness + spiritual practitioners, products and experiences on the planet!

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

We met Deborah Hanlon through what we think is always the best way to meet someone,  synchronicity. Let’s just say that this conversation has been divinely orchestrated by our collective family and friends on the other side. And wait until you hear what happened at our very first meeting.

Deborah refers to herself as an “intuitive medium,” which she’ll tell you all about. Deborah’s curiosity and exploration started at an early age, and was triggered by the loss of her four-year old brother, when she was three-years-old. Since then she’s been on a life-long journey of discovery using science and self to find proof of what she knew deep inside, that life after death exists. She knew her brother was still around because she was able to communicate with him. Her commitment to deepen her awareness in science and spirituality, has led Deborah to become a trusted expert for matters of our hearts and souls.

Her focus as a medium is to help the living transition their own ‘afterlife.” Her ability to translate specific messages with such clarity has already helped heal thousands during her sessions, which we have had the privilege to experience first hand.

In her book, “In The Presence of Proof: A Medium’s Guide to Creating Heaven on Earth,” which we’ll discuss, she provides guidance to find peace with loss and introduces the reality that one can experience the afterlife each and every day. There is an afterlife to every moment, situation, sadness, relationship, job and even to your former self. Think about that!

Deborah wants to help lift people up in every way however she can – whether that’s through her sessions, workshops or her book. We cover so much in our conversation. Listen now.

Visit Deborah's site to find out all of the many ways you can work with Deborah.

You can follow Deborah on Facebook and Instagram @imdeborahhanlon

You can buy Deborah's book, "In the Presence of Proof," on her website or on

Visit for more from Robyn + Karen, plus mega inspo -- and the best wellness + spiritual practitioners, products and experiences on the planet!

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter

[00:00:00] robyn: We can't wait to introduce you to Deborah Hanlon. We met Deborah through what we think is always the best way to meet someone synchronicity. Let's just say that this conversation has been divinely orchestrated by our collective family and friends. On the other side, Deborah refers to herself as an intuitive medium, which she'll tell you all about. Deborah's curiosity and exploration started at an early age and was triggered by the loss of her four-year-old brother.

[00:00:26] When she was three years old, since then, she's been on a lifelong journey of discovery using science and self to find proof of what she knew deep inside that life after death. exists She knew her brother was still around because she was able to communicate with him, her commitment to deepen her awareness in science and spirituality has led Debra to become a trusted experts for matters of our hearts and souls.

[00:00:50] Her focus as a medium is to help the living transition their own afterlife. her ability to translate specific messages with such clarity has already [00:01:00] helped heal thousands during her sessions, which we have had the privilege to experience firsthand and her book in the presence of proof, a medium's guide to creating heaven on or which we'll discuss.

[00:01:11] She provides guidance to find peace with loss and introduces the reality that one can experience the afterlife each and every day. There is an afterlife to every moment situation, sadness, relationship, And even to your former self, think about that. Deborah wants to help lift people up in every way. However she can, whether that's through her sessions, workshops, or her book, there's so much to discuss. Let's get going. Hi, Deborah.

[00:01:39] deborah: So 

[00:01:40] karen: happy that you're here

[00:01:41] deborah: this is exciting to be here with the two of you, the energies kismet, as they say 

[00:01:45] robyn: yes, it is. So let's introduce this idea of intuitive medium.

[00:01:50] What does that mean? And what's the difference between a psychic and a medium. 

[00:01:54] deborah: It's so funny the intuitive medium, it is really born out of the fact that I hate the phrase [00:02:00] psychic. That is all I wish I had a magical, oh, it's so intuitive.

[00:02:03] I just like the word. It feels softer. I think it's more relatable that we are all intuitive, but we don't all think of ourselves as psychic. So that intuitive is just another word for psychic. It's just another word for being human. If you will. I believe that we all have natural born biological abilities to be intuitive.

[00:02:26] It is part of our nature. It is not weird. It is not some people that can do it and others can't. I really, truly firmly believe it is another sense, organ And unfortunately it's a sense organ. That's not really developed or highlighted and celebrated to be developed in our society. So that's where intuitive medium comes from.

[00:02:45] What's the difference between intuitive or psychic in a medium it's all the same. I mean, it's just where we get our information from. So we're all intuitive. So we all get what I call intuitive hits, right? Like these just like little hit. I gotta hit on that. And that's from the [00:03:00] collective. We don't know where it's coming from.

[00:03:01] We might not know specifically who told us what or where we got that sensation or feeling, or hit from, but it came to us, a medium is we know where it's coming from. It's coming from a deceased, loved one. In my case, other people can be tapped into guides and angels and other realms. So it, depends on where the information is coming in.

[00:03:20] question on that in terms of a psychic, I think a lot of 

[00:03:23] karen: people have some think of a psychic as somebody who can see the future or 

[00:03:27] deborah: see something that could happen. 

[00:03:30] karen: Does that play into your gifts? Are you just 

[00:03:32] deborah: channeling the energy of our deceased loved Well, because where the energy of where our loved ones are, is in the collective they also are present in the future as well.

[00:03:43] So that information can come from them as well, because they are in an of that arena. If you will. I love that 

[00:03:50] karen: so funny. I saw a video of you 

[00:03:52] deborah: on YouTube that you posted and I love your approach at your gifts, 

[00:03:57] karen: deborah, because 

[00:03:58] deborah: first of all, you're so humble about [00:04:00] them, but you poke 

[00:04:00] karen: humor added all the time.

[00:04:01] I think in one of those videos I saw it was like, 

[00:04:03] deborah: I read the energy. that's 

[00:04:05] karen: how I'm classifying what I do today. 

[00:04:07] deborah: And just love 

[00:04:07] that you do that. 

[00:04:08] karen: And I also love the idea that you're sharing this concept, 

[00:04:11] deborah: that we all 

[00:04:12] karen: can do it, even though some of us in not all believe that. 

[00:04:16] deborah: Thank you for that. But it's such a big pet peeve that people think other people do it, not everyone can do it for others. Not everyone can do it on certain levels. always use the analogy of singing. not everyone can sing and dance, like J-Lo It's just, we can't, technically I can have sound come out of my mouth and I can call it singing, but I certainly can't do it like she does.

[00:04:36] So we do have varying degrees, but this I feel is so trainable. And a self-awareness discipline and practice. So we really do all have it. And if we want to learn more about it, we will. And then we do, that's such 

[00:04:50] robyn: a good point. It's like those times where you thinking, see somebody let's say, when you're walking down the street and it's not them, but then you cross the street or you go down another [00:05:00] block and then you see the person you thought you saw that block and prior that's intuitive, That's an intuitive hit. that's a very superficial one. There's many more, that could be much deeper, but it's that kind of thing. And then if you actually paid attention to that more and more, you would be practicing to your point of that. We can all do it. If we decide to focus on.

[00:05:21] deborah: Truly teach workshops and I always say any intuitive development workshop is a personal development workshop. That's what it is because mediums are all we're doing is being aware of what we're aware of. That is it. That is mediumship in a nutshell, for me, it's just aware of my awareness right now.

[00:05:38] I'm aware of us having this discussion. And if I flipped a switch to be aware of a larger perspective or experience, then I would be aware of mediumship or the realm of mediumship. And I really truly believe we all have this ability and we just need to practice it. 

[00:05:55] robyn: And I think your point some people .

[00:05:56] Just like with singing are better at translating, [00:06:00] I'd say than others. That's how I would look at it because I think your translation is just, having talked to so many intuitives and mediums, finding ones that really translate it well, 

[00:06:12] deborah: think that goes back to being well aware.

[00:06:16] Now don't, think I'm saying like I'm so aware and so therefore all my messages are so great. no, I am not saying that. What I'm saying is I've practiced the art of paying attention for much longer time to any little sensation. So if I'm talking to someone and all of a sudden, I get a sense of peanut butter in my mouth and I'm not eating peanut butter, all of a sudden I know, okay, this is, something intuitive.

[00:06:37] And then it'll be like, Ooh, is a peanut allergy around you, or, whatever. So it's so subtle. And most of our intuitive hits are not what I call the burning Bush. They're not these unbelievable. Oh, my gosh, I just got the secret and the mysteries of all of earth. It's usually just something as simple as what?

[00:06:55] Gosh, I just thought I saw them and I'm seeing them. That's why we don't know that we're doing it because [00:07:00] they seem so superficial and shallow and meaningless. Yeah. 

[00:07:03] karen: Well, let's talk about how you came into your gifts and when did they first appear? I know they started at a very young age, but talk a little bit about how you first started to get that premonition that maybe I'm seeing things that people.

[00:07:15] deborah: So for me, it was never like seeing things. I don't think it's a gift. I think it's an ability. I was very young, three years old when my brother was dying and my family at that time were pretty progressive for 1979 of having my brother die at home. And in that process we had fortunately, and by the way, the universe works unbelievable experts in the death and dying field, including Elisabeth, Kubler, Ross in our home and super well-trained nurses and doctors who came to live with us, who were very schooled in death and dying.

[00:07:47] And so there was a presence in my home that was very brilliant. And I kind of mean brilliant of the heart, not even brilliant of the mind, but that too of surrounding death and dying. So I was in that energy [00:08:00] field very young and then death was never a secret in my family. It was never don't talk about it.

[00:08:05] I don't remember anyone covering up their grief. We all went out sideways, our whole family, we all experienced it many, many different ways. So I was steeped in death and dying and I was steeped in the mystery of it all, very young. So I've been at this a long time, I've been at this since I'm three years old where I knew he died and there was a sense I still feel he's here.

[00:08:25] And that, that went away for a while. For many years. I didn't feel like he was here even though it was a knowing in the back of my head. But I was still pretty clear, like, no, he died. He's not here, and then sort of resurfaced around 13, where I started getting that sensation again, that he was around.

[00:08:42] somebody came to our house and we were watching old film footage of my brother before he was sick. And while he was sick and I had never seen. Film from him until I was 13. I saw photos, but I'd never seen these films. So I was watching them. And I remember excusing myself because I'm watching this with my family and [00:09:00] I'm 13 and I'm feeling super overwhelmed with emotion.

[00:09:02] Like I'm seeing myself and I'm seeing my family and tact and I'm seeing my brother alive and it just engulfed me in grief in Gulf to me. And I felt so stupid. I felt like, oh my gosh, what's wrong with you? Why are you feeling so sad? this happened 10 years ago. And it was the first time the flood of grief came up to me to my awareness because of this whole time from three on, I was always naturally into what does happen?

[00:09:25] Where did he go? What is this thing called death? if there's such thing as death, what is life? So I was asking these questions my entire life, and I really liked science. Not from a student perspective, but from an inquisitive. Perspective of wow. Science talks about light and energy.

[00:09:41] And for some reason, it all just made sense to me that we are light. We are energy. I was reading passages about Einstein theory of relativity, literally at 10, 11, 12 years old, because I'm like, my gosh, this man knew everything. So it was a natural propensity that was fostered very young. 

[00:09:57] robyn: I want to know more. How did you start to [00:10:00] actually communicate did that start then? Or did that 

[00:10:03] deborah: wait?

[00:10:03] Yeah, it didn't start then, but because of that background and because of the chaos that ensued and within my family dynamic and how everyone, my siblings, my parents process their grief. I grew up in a when I say chaotic, it wasn't chaos. It was emotionally, everyone was all over the place.

[00:10:21] Emotionally, chaotic, thankfully, not anger or anything detrimental or frightening, but definitely emotionally chaotic. And I was very good at feeling my way through how everyone else in the family felt to speak. I had a normal childhood too. I wasn't like, oh, trying to feel and protect myself at all times, but I'm schooled in paying attention.

[00:10:41] I was plugged into my mom very often of , oh, how is she doing? I was making sure I was a good girl for her because she's going through so much grief and all of that stuff. So I had a knowing, I would also feel like I was counseling my mom at a very young age. And so again, that skill of hearing big people's problems and [00:11:00] putting a sense to it.

[00:11:01] And then knowing that there's a fix for it. I knew they were their problems, not mine. I think that was a really big thing that I think if I thought I was the problem or it was, it was my fault. I think I would have developed completely differently. So I'm really fortunate in how it all played out, but I've been schooled in, just.

[00:11:17] It's kind of like the voice of reason for my family, which makes no sense. Cause I'm the youngest of them all. It says a lot about my family when I'm the most normal in the family. When I'm the one

[00:11:31] robyn: How did you end up doing this as a profession? I'm assuming that there may have been something in between. 

[00:11:38] deborah: Yeah, it's so wild. So I always had this, knowing this, I was in it, but not of it and the world, as a teenager, I knew, I wanted my hair to look nice, but it was just in my hair and I'm 13 and this phase is going to pass, it's just a prom.

[00:11:53] I don't need to get all worked up about it. I've had that inner knowing this is too shall pass. So yes, it's [00:12:00] important to me, but it's not the end of the world importance that there's much bigger importance. So that knowingness always drove me well. don't think 

[00:12:08] robyn: I'm part of that too.

[00:12:09] Comes from suffering from a tragedy and a loss it gives you instant perspective even the young age. 

[00:12:16] deborah: Totally. And it is a gift. It really is a gift because, of that perspective, where you don't sweat the really, truly small things and you still can be bothered them, I was really actually very much interested in this stuff, but never a believer in it. That's the other funny part. I remember going to a medium in my early twenties. And I remember saying to this woman, I don't understand because if they're here, why don't they just show us that they're here?

[00:12:41] Why is this this great big, decoding process? And I'll never forget that woman. You better be careful what you ask for, not in a creepy way, but I was like, Hmm, no, I want proof. My whole thing was, I want proof, just show me proof and I'll believe. And then I will talk about this all the time.

[00:12:55] And she said to me, you better be careful. What you ask for and about the following year is my first [00:13:00] experience where I went, oh my gosh, this is not the voice within myself or not only the voice within myself. This is other, guidance. That's come through me all along. And I was at a funeral for a family members, family member, my family members mother-in-law who I didn't really know very well.

[00:13:18] It was just there at the funeral to help the family member with their little kids and. I remember thinking, oh my gosh, this woman is talking to me. And I remember thinking I was absolutely out of my mind. I had just had a baby, four months before my first son. And I remember thinking.

[00:13:33] I think when I get home from this trip, I need to see a doctor. I feel like this woman is showing me things and showing me her life and helping me get a sense of how she felt when she was dying. And I felt a little crazed. I did. Thankfully I shared that with my family member going, oh my gosh, you gotta know what's going on over here.

[00:13:57] I know I need to see someone because I feel [00:14:00] like blah, blah, blah. And she would validate like, well, that is how she passed. And I'm like, huh? There was a lot of little things that I would, I'd hear them talking. I wish we knew where mom kept that full album and I'd hear bottom draw, left side and I'd be like dresser and bottom drawer.

[00:14:12] I've never been in this woman's house before. And just things like that were adding up. And I was like, oh my gosh. And I was getting validation very quickly. Had I not gotten validation? I don't think I ever would've pursued it at all. And were you 

[00:14:24] karen: literally hearing her in your head where you getting visual cues, what was that 

[00:14:29] deborah: experience?

[00:14:30] it's a full body experience where I'll hear it, but it's kind of like when I tell people, if I told you to repeat the alphabet in your mind, it's not like you hear that, but you definitely know what's being said, so you kind of hear it. So it's not like I'm hearing voices. It's not that I remember it, like, I'll see like a dresser bottom draw, left side.

[00:14:48] So my vision will go down to the left side, So it's a knowing and that's the skill that, what I've determined since then is the skill. Is these things happen to us so fast, this [00:15:00] information, we just need to be ready. To be aware of what's coming through at any moment.

[00:15:04] And for whatever reasons I was paying attention in that moment. 

[00:15:09] robyn: So then what did you do? 

[00:15:10] deborah: There was this one moment I was sitting in a chair and there was a shelf And she kept, there was a picture of her and there was a picture of her with all her families and grand kids up to that point.

[00:15:17] And she kept saying, look at the picture, look at the picture. I know about my face. I know about my face. So this is what I'm feeling and hearing. So I kept trying to be discreet and keep looking at this picture to try to figure out is there a smudge on the picture what's going on? And look at the picture every night, every night I know about my face.

[00:15:32] That's what would the message every night I know about my face and I felt crazy. I didn't, that didn't feel like, oh, she's trying to tell me something. No, it felt crazy. And then all of a sudden family member came into the room where everyone was talking and in the middle of nowhere says to everyone's you see that picture right there?

[00:15:46] And he points to this picture and everyone else was kind of ignoring him and I said, yeah. And he goes, every night I kiss her face before I go to bed. Oh, that was the moment. Wow. Literally the moment where I went. Okay. I'm paying attention. [00:16:00] I hear you. I don't know why I hear you, but I hear you and you are here and that was the start of all of it for me.

[00:16:08] robyn: That's powerful. 

[00:16:10] karen: So did you have a place to go after Where does one go? 

[00:16:14] deborah: 21 years ago. It was so no, I really didn't. I also was that person that thought and still do to a degree. God helped me for saying that, but I still think that it's portrayed as a weird thing. And a certain type of person is a medium.

[00:16:32] And that's the stuff that drives me wild because no, this is a very human experience. it's not a type it's, we're all doing it. And sadly, I feel that so many people are hiding it because it's still considered woo and weird and, whatever the connotations people had that I also had and sometimes do still have, and I that's judgmental but it is what it is. I'm being honest about it. 

[00:16:58] karen: So did you find a group of [00:17:00] people that could help nurture that skill 

[00:17:02] deborah: more? Not right away. I just thought for whatever reasons I could hear her, I didn't think it was everyone.

[00:17:07] And then that gradually changed. I was like, all right, let me see if I can sit with this person, then I'd be like, oh my gosh. So I just kind of created a practice in and of myself. And then in 2007, I did go to omega and I went to a week long workshop with James Von Prague.

[00:17:22] And that was super exciting on so many levels for so many reasons. 

[00:17:26] robyn: And did you find other in quotes, normal people.

[00:17:29] totally 

[00:17:30] deborah: I know, quote normal. Do we want to be part of the normal, everyone was so normal. That was the other thing. So I've really liked dispelling the whole, connotation that it's weird and certain people do it yeah, I 

[00:17:44] robyn: know. However, we're trying to put an end to it. 

[00:17:46] karen: Yeah. I also love the definition that you just gave for somebody who's listening. I think we all have this wonder do I have the ability to be able to do that?

[00:17:54] And I just love the way that you put the image of what a medium or a psychic actually is. [00:18:00] So when did you first start practicing Deborah? So you got to that point where you were realizing it, wasn't the lady, that there were other people that you could tune into. So when did you find that you felt confident? 

[00:18:10] robyn: And did you start talking to your brother? 

[00:18:12] deborah: It's funny, 

[00:18:12] I still say I'm still not confident. And I think that there should be a level of self doubt within every medium to keep that balance of, we don't know everything. We're not supposed to know everything. I'm never even supposed to think that I'm supposed to know everything because then I'm putting myself in a totally different category and realm.

[00:18:32] That's not even possible. I am still human. I still have human thoughts, emotions, feelings, and experiences. So it's. Normal. It's just very normal. So confidence there's always a level of self doubt. I practiced with that woman for about a year. I would sit with her family and just practice with her and then that developed into going into other people.

[00:18:49] So I'd say about four years beforehand. And then I started doing public events and those were starting to become popular and I was getting validation like, oh my gosh. I mean, to this [00:19:00] day, 20 years later, I still say to them before every reading prove it to me again before everyone show me again, that you're here, no matter who it is.

[00:19:06] And I still am in awe and disbelief, absolute awe, 20 years later, that's why I named my book in the presence of proof. Cause I'm in the presence of proof. Literally every day of my life. The one thing I wanted as a child, I receive every day and I still am in. that I'd love it. Never ceases to amaze me.

[00:19:28] And I'm not saying I cease to amaze me. I'm saying it, the possibility that this possible and real and how much more is out there for us, what more can we do? What more can we be aware of this stuff? Lights me up 

[00:19:40] karen: well, and also because you can see the result is not when you deliver those 

[00:19:43] deborah: messages.

[00:19:43] Absolutely. 

[00:19:44] It's funny. My brother and I have a very subtle, connection. it's not like, Hey Christopher, how are you? Although before every event I'm always like, okay, let me know that you're here tonight. Just for whatever reason. And every time.

[00:19:56] Something will come up. That's connected to him and I'm like, [00:20:00] okay, gotcha. Thank you. Before anything I do, I always ask him for, give me a wink. I call them winks of sign, give me a wink. And that goes to our first meeting. I mean, anytime I take on new podcasts or new jobs or whatever, I always ask, show me the sign, show me the way, let me know if this is it.

[00:20:15] And that was what was so extraordinary about our meeting was really what I was. That was one of my top blown away moments where I'm like, wait, I'm crying in front of these two women who I don't know with this extremely significant moment. So that was a wink with him. So it's not like I talked to him.

[00:20:31] It's not like he talks to me. It's more of a, just show me you're here. 

[00:20:35] robyn: Well, and I bring that up too again, because I think it's helpful for everyone to understand that we have different relationships with deceased, loved ones so just because somebody is on the other side, doesn't necessarily mean that they're to be your main guide in this lifetime there was a reason that he passed away it ended up playing a different role [00:21:00] of probably each member of your family's lives, I would assume. And so it opened the door for you to have these thoughts from such a young age and then lead to where you are now in many ways.

[00:21:09] I'm saying you have other deceased, loved ones or guides that talk to you, maybe even in a much louder way than he does, but his is significant in a different way, 

[00:21:20] deborah: correct? Yeah, totally. I have a very unique, we call it bizarre connection with my father's father because he died when I was four.

[00:21:30] I have no memory of him, no memory of ever meeting him. There are not really very many nice family stories about him. He was terrible alcoholic. So there's no like warm and fuzzy grandpa's stories that I heard of. But I wrote this in my book, a very significant story about him coming to me with my, when my son was born and he.

[00:21:50] Is the one who I talked to and I keep telling my dad, I adore him because he is such a, a pillar of something for me I [00:22:00] love that because I wouldn't have made that up. Do what? 

[00:22:02] robyn: I mean, like I wouldn't make that up. And I think that people are really surprised because if they do end up having a reading with an intuitive medium, they may be surprised that the person they thought they were going to hear.

[00:22:17] May come by for a second, but the actual main person with someone that may never have met in this lifetime, Or like you had maybe met them once that they don't remember, it can surprise you. And I think it's important for people to understand that concept 

[00:22:31] karen: That's a really good point.

[00:22:33] deborah: And also it's important for the medium to note that as well, because I can't force, what's not happening. I can only do what is happening. And so it's a gift to really recognize that on both ends. 

[00:22:45] karen: know there's a couple other questions that we want to ask from the book, but I just feel like I have to follow this thread about how you do your work, because I had the opportunity to see you on a video conference, 

[00:22:54] deborah: just 

[00:22:55] karen: purely by chance.

[00:22:56] It was one of those crazy moments, but it was very timely for me because we had [00:23:00] just lost a very close friend of my sons. And , I hadn't been to a group event before. That was unusual for me to let alone on a zoom call with, 50 other people. And I was really. A little bit doubtful that anyone that I knew would come through and then get, when you started talking, you were so adamant about the level of detail about the clarity of what you were saying, and that if it was me, that you were speaking to that I didn't give too much away up front that you allowed yourself to really describe what you were feeling and the experience.

[00:23:33] And for me, the validation was so strong because you did that because I didn't say anything for the first few minutes and yet the tangibility of what you came through with. was telling Robin. I could almost see Tyler in you by your mannerism and the words that you chose and the things that you decided to talk about about him were so specific that there was absolutely no doubt [00:24:00] in my mind that you were, you were talking about him.

[00:24:02] And I just feel that that's practice, That's because you've done all of that practice, but I think it's also speaks so much about your integrity in how. You can come to people and understanding that they are potentially grieving. And this is very scary territory for so many. Can you just talk about that and how that all evolved and how you do approach these readings when you do both the group 

[00:24:26] deborah: the one-on-ones that you do, you're giving me chills, just even hearing that.

[00:24:30] that means literally everything to me that integrity and detail. And when I'm working with other people who are training to be mediums, I am adamant about the psychology. you are dealing with people who are missing their deepest and greatest humans on the planet. This is no pony trick.

[00:24:52] It's so exciting to get validations and we can get into our egos. And I certainly have, but it's not about that. It's so not [00:25:00] about that. It's about the human being in front of you was so desperate to just know that their person is okay and that they're still present. And with them, there's literally nothing more important to the work than that.

[00:25:11] so thank you for, acknowledging that, because that is what the skill is, the way you deliver, the way you understand how you say things can affect somebody in certain ways, different from other people. How do I approach it? Do you mean quite literally 

[00:25:26] karen: I'm wondering, what do you see, how do you translate that?

[00:25:30] And do you ever edit yourself before you say. 

[00:25:33] deborah: good question. do I edit? I don't edit as far as I'm not going to say that. whatever they show me, I have to say, because I feel that it's not up to me to decipher what information I'm giving. And that was really hard in the beginning.

[00:25:47] Very hard, because I remember very specifically having a soldier who was blown up and he was adamant about telling my mother, I have my head. And I remember saying that I am not saying that. And he was like, you need to [00:26:00] say that you need to let her know I'm in one piece, I'm in one piece. So there is a level of that was horrible to me, but that was one of the most profound, the mom needed to know where's my son.

[00:26:11] What does he look like? Where is, yeah. What, you know? So that was profound for her. So edit maybe how I can say things, but I never edit what I say, because if I'm receiving it, I've got to give it really what it feels like it's stronger with some people than others. I feel like I am them and I feel like I'm looking out through their eyes.

[00:26:28] So if I didn't know right now that I have dark hair, I wouldn't know that they have dark hair. So sometimes people say, what kind of hair do they have? What colorize they have. And I was like, I don't know, because I can't see me. I can't see those parts because I'm just looking down and I'm feel like I'm them.

[00:26:42] That's why I pick up on certain mannerisms. That's why, if all of a sudden someone, had a broken leg, I can feel that they limped a lot or, because the body is the mediums tool. My body is the tool and it's telling me, it's showing me everything. I'm just paying attention to my body, to my thoughts.

[00:26:57] What are my thoughts thinking? And, oh, wow. These [00:27:00] are not in alignment with my thoughts. Wow. They have a very different political view or, wow. They're really rough or they're really kind, whatever it is. I can start to feel them. It kind of imagine that I've never, ever been in a, a play or anything. But I imagine that this is what actors.

[00:27:15] Is that they put themselves into a persona and they then behave and it's a character, so I've never acted before. So I don't know, but at one point it hit me oh my gosh, I feel like I'm acting as somebody. I'm not because I am acting as somebody I'm not 

[00:27:31] karen: And I think that's where the authenticity comes from because you are sort of stepping in somehow to that person's energy and are able to translate from there.

[00:27:40] Which is, it's such a gift to 

[00:27:42] robyn: yeah, no. And just speaking of, of this for another moment, in terms of just the, the medium readings and those larger groups, is there any thing that you. Put in place for those that are coming to see you. So if it's one-on-one, do you feel like there should be a certain amount of time if someone [00:28:00] lost someone and they want to be connect, that they should wait a certain amount of time?

[00:28:05] Or do you suggest that before they see you, there are certain things that they should do in terms of talking to the specific person that they want to hear from before they see you, whether that's one-on-one or in a large group session, 

[00:28:18] deborah: good question. Every medium is different.

[00:28:20] Some will say way the year, some will say certain amount of weeks, I don't feel that there's a wait necessary other than the wait that the person who's coming is ready. So if you feel ready, then it's time. so if they're not ready, it's not time. I just had a group this weekend and I read somebody of their family three years ago and they, said to me now we're ready.

[00:28:39] The rest of the family is ready now. And I love that. That to me is good, because you need to feel you needed to feel it when it's time. And when it's right, if it's time and if it's right, then it's time and right for you. 

[00:28:50] karen: And that is unique. You offer this experience to an entire family together because not everybody can always afford to pay for a one-on-one session and to have [00:29:00] everybody sort of come together to experience it.

[00:29:02] can't imagine a more healing opportunity for a family because we, 

[00:29:07] deborah: robyn and I both been in 

[00:29:08] karen: situations where we've gone for a one-on-one session. And then you try to come back and explain that to other people and you have the recording, 

[00:29:15] deborah: but it just doesn't land. It's not the 

[00:29:18] karen: same thing. And I'm sure that having everyone who's experienced.

[00:29:22] In the room together it just, it just gives them a whole different level of understanding that that person really is there on the other side, because it's not something that they're sending it back or giving back to other people or playing recording afterwards. They're actually, they're experiencing.

[00:29:38] For themselves 

[00:29:38] deborah: with you? It definitely is because I also, even though I get skepticism, I really do. And I think everyone should have a healthy dose of skepticism with whomever and whatever they're approaching, whether it's a neuroscientist or a medium, whether it's your dentist, whether it's your new hairdresser, have a healthy dose of skepticism with whoever you meet and see if you resonate with them, no matter what it [00:30:00] is.

[00:30:00] But yeah, to experience it because I know family members will say, well, you probably said that, or you probably said something that made her think that. So when, when they are experiencing it together, you already know well, no, it didn't. It came out of thin air. So it can be helpful, I should say.

[00:30:15] robyn: and on another, different path, when you are doing intuitive readings that are not mediumship reading. Who are you talking to then? Cause I know people may, when they look you up, they may see that you offer that as well. Are you talking to guides, your guide, their guides energy.

[00:30:32] What 

[00:30:32] deborah: is that in the intuitive guidance in sessions or more about. Mostly, it's not connecting with anyone on their side. It's more of connecting to that person and a bit of their, their story, their history. And you can kind of feel like, ah, I got it. They're stuck on something that happened at four years old, or I got it up.

[00:30:51] This is coming up, what's gone. What will not around 21. We didn't, we didn't quite fully process that. so it's more their energy field and the way that [00:31:00] led them to. Get conditioned. And then how do we take that conditioning and rewire it in a way that starts to make life feel good and authentic to them.

[00:31:09] today versus living out of the eight year old self that wasn't healed at that time, for whatever reasons. And we are all at your olds running around with stuff we share.

[00:31:20] I wish we would all know that I wish they, sorry. My eight year old self just showed up or sorry, my, rough 14 year old self just showed up, but that would be so much more fun in life. If we were really aware that this is what's going on. Well, and I forget, 

[00:31:34] karen: we carry that energy with us too all the time.

[00:31:37] And I think what your gift is the ability to be able to tap into where that might be stuck 

[00:31:42] deborah: somewhere. It's not 

[00:31:43] karen: that traditional therapy, is a bad thing either, but a therapist may not be able to get to the heart of that or see that as readily as you 

[00:31:52] deborah: can. Really good therapists are absolutely schooled mediums.

[00:31:56] And whether they know it or not I think they're bound by ridiculous [00:32:00] laws that prevent them from going the distance. So I have many friends who were so skilled, such unbelievably skilled therapists. They're like, yeah, I got to send them to you because I can't say this to them. and I'm like, oh, see, my whole life.

[00:32:12] All I wanted was a PhD in neuro psychology. That is all I really wanted to be when I grew up. And I laugh. Like I wanted to be Dr. Debra Hamlin. I did not want to be intuitive, medium to Deborah Hanlon, but that is how my life has unfolded. And here we are. But now I look back and I go, now I know why, because I couldn't do or say what my real truth skill set is in that.

[00:32:34] So 

[00:32:35] robyn: true. And I will just say that my husband just had an intuitive guidance session with you. And he explained it to me as the best therapy session he's ever had. 

[00:32:46] deborah: I love that. 

[00:32:47] robyn: So I love that you are explaining it that way too. And we have friends who actually, and you probably do too, who are actual psychologists and mediums, and they are played out and they [00:33:00] say that and now have talked to their clients and told them that there are messages that they're getting in addition to what they've been trained in.

[00:33:08] So if you want that's what they can offer you. But you're right. I think that's so true. It is very well-trained therapists and psychologists have that without necessarily acknowledging. 

[00:33:18] deborah: Totally. And some might even not even know that that's what it is exactly like a ghost in front of you, very often it's not, the way Hollywood portrays what with all this is, it boggles my brain because that's so not what this is.

[00:33:32] It's not oh, I saw an apparition, although that's possible too. I'm not negating that as a possibility, but that's more not what it is. It's more of this inner knower and you just become aware. So if those little intuitive we all had those moments. I was just thinking of my friend.

[00:33:45] I haven't thought of him 14 years and boom, they call me, that's an intuitive hit. Yeah, 

[00:33:49] karen: yeah. Back to your book, which I love the science aspect is something that I think gets fascinated, Robin and I, from the very beginning of this, because if they are so tied together and you were saying that [00:34:00] your passion is understanding the science of the spirit of physics of the soul.

[00:34:04] I want your definition 

[00:34:06] deborah: of what you mean. So to me it's so hard because you have people who will say, if you're describing this as science, it takes away the connection and the spirituality of it. And then I have people who say, the spirituality of it is negates the science.

[00:34:19] And to me, they are literally the same thing that there is such divinity in the fact that with these experiences that we have, there's such unbelievable miracles that are backed by science, just how does a baby get to be born like that? We should still be in complete and total awe, even though we know how it happened.

[00:34:40] It's still miraculous. It is still spiritual. It is still unbelievable. So to me, the fact that, you know, I do believe we are energy and light, and I believe that we're human beings, individually express thing ourselves so that we can experience the universe in a physical realm. So the physics of the [00:35:00] soul is just the dynamics of light and energy and how that works together.

[00:35:04] And that is ultimate divinity and spirituality. To me, it, to me, it all makes sense. And I understand that it crosses lines of religious beliefs and, it gets into dangerous waters, but I kind of zoom out and I always look to nature. And when I'm stuck on something, I look to nature and I love nature, but

[00:35:22] I don't like, bugs and muggy and my hair gets froze. And like, I don't want spiders. , I love a good beach that I love, but I live in the Northeast and there's lots of mountains and rocks and trees and lakes. And I'm not a big fan of them. They're beautiful, but only to be in nature, but I always look to nature and nature doesn't have any problem.

[00:35:39] It has no problems. it is always finding a wave of balance out of balance balance out of bounce. So we are a piece of nature. That is all we are. And if we can adopt principles of nature to help us live. We would be so much calmer and we would be so much smoother. We would go in with the flow. We would still be intentional, but we won't have to grind and force[00:36:00] it.

[00:36:00] there's just a flow that comes in through everything. So we need to look towards nature. Like what if, when a tree gets really stressed out, what does it doing? Well, it's not overeating. It's not binge watching TV. It's not, telling itself what an ugly tree it is, And it sounds silly, but we really need to look to that and go, what is it doing?

[00:36:19] It's still standing strong and it's holding, it's holding itself. It's holding itself up. And it is trusting the environment around it to reregulate that is actually what's happening. So that's us. That is what we are. 

[00:36:31] robyn: So I'm going to be using. you just gave me new perspective, honestly, 

[00:36:35] karen: and this wisdom that you have, I mean, it is simple in a way, It's just harder to practice. Have there been times in your own life as you've been going through all of these experiences where you've been at that crossroads of not knowing what to do, maybe say this stuff. BS, it's not working for me. Tell me about that part of your journey and how you brought yourself back 

[00:36:57] deborah: to center after that it is daily.

[00:36:59] Totally. I'm [00:37:00] not levitated over here. Anyone notice because we're living lives and we are conditioned and I fall back to my own conditioning, even though I know Hey Deb the eight year old self, it doesn't work for you. Let's stop. she still comes back. So it's an art and a practice in and of itself.

[00:37:14] Currently the first time ever in my life I have zero sense of what direction I want to go in, in any area. It's the first time I can ever remember, , not having a very specific, work-related goal or personal development goal. that's the first time where I'm just yeah, I really don't.

[00:37:33] know. And at first that was really difficult because it's sort of like, no, no, no, you gotta work for it. Something you've got to want something. You've got to have direction. You got to be intentionally got I'm manifesting. I don't want to, the, the inner voice starts going and now it's like, Nope, I'm getting very comfortable with the words.

[00:37:47] I don't know. I don't know what's next. I don't know what supposed to be next. I don't have a pull in any one direction and I'm here and I'll know it when I know. that is it. And it is very calming and very [00:38:00] soothing when it's calming and soothing. And then the beast will rear its head again and say, oh my gosh, you need to know what's going on.

[00:38:06] Usually it's like right before we go to sleep, right. But it's that art in that practice of everything's fine. you're so fortunate in this moment that everything is fine, which is another point to remind everyone that if we are wondering what direction is next, we're in a really good spot because when we're in trauma, we can't even ask that question.

[00:38:24] Oh my 

[00:38:24] robyn: God, that's so true. And I really never looked at it that way, 

[00:38:28] deborah: but. Yeah. And so we always feel like, unfortunately, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know why I'm so stressed. I'm so stressed. And it's sort of like if we're stressed, cause we don't know what direction that means. Life is really safe.

[00:38:38] It's really good. It's really calm. And you just don't know what's next. You're not fighting for survival. You're not in the middle of some major entanglement in any sort of way. You're not grappling with something deep within yourself. It's a really good place to be. And we have to remind ourselves doesn't mean that doesn't bring us angst

[00:38:54] I'm not diminishing it either, but it's also I have to catch myself like, wow, this is a great problem. This is a [00:39:00] wonderful problem to have right now. 

[00:39:01] robyn: Well, and then don't you think there, you can start asking for the winks to help start to guide you in which direction? 

[00:39:08] deborah: Absolutely. I always say, show me the way.

[00:39:11] show me the way 

[00:39:11] karen: And I love the getting comfortable with the, I don't know. that just feels like an exhale for me. Yeah. so often, because of the way we're conditioned is like, oh, I got to figure I got to figure out what's next on the agenda. I'm going to get everything.

[00:39:23] to give yourself, as we say so often grace in that moment to be able to say, okay, it's, it's crazy right now, but I don't know, but I will, but I just don't know right now it just takes yourself off the hook for a moment 

[00:39:36] deborah: which brings space for inspiration to come. Yes. 

[00:39:40] karen: Because you're not fighting, fighting and flighting in that moment.

[00:39:43] robyn: So the society that in so many social situations, especially coming out of COVID. So many of us, haven't seen many people in person and now are starting to again. And the first thing, I mean, I'm guilty of it too, is asking them, what are you up to? What's next to [00:40:00] somebody else when we are self, I know for me where I am in life too, it's like, there's so much going on, but I don't know.

[00:40:08] I don't know. I wish I knew. 

[00:40:10] deborah: But what is coming out of this pandemic right now is a great, I don't know. I know they said the great resignation. It's the great, I don't know. That's a collective thing. More and more clients are like, I don't know what I want. I don't know. What's important. I don't want this.

[00:40:24] What I have now. I don't know how to get out of it. It's the great, I don't know. And if we can still stay in the that's all right. And I use this analogy with people, cause it was really an important concept. It's really freeing this. I don't know concept. And it doesn't mean you're surrendering. Like, I don't know, I'm just not going to do anything.

[00:40:42] It doesn't mean that at all. But if I asked everyone right now, here we are in may. If I asked you, what are your plans for this Thanksgiving? Where are you going to eat? What are you going to make or bring? What are you going to wear? Where are you going to sit? What conversations are you going to have? And how much are you going to.

[00:40:58] You all would look at me like [00:41:00] I have no idea. Why are you even asking that that's so dumb, but if we fast forward time and I went a week before Thanksgiving and I said, Hey, where are you going to go? Oh, we're going to my aunt's house. Well, what are you going to bring? Not sure yet we're going to where no idea.

[00:41:13] We're going to say, I don't know how much you're going to eat. Don't know he didn't talk about don't know. But if I called you that night of Thanksgiving after it's over, you would have all the answers to that. So sometimes when we don't have answers, it just means it's not time to know yet. And we know when we know, and it's not having any time sooner.

[00:41:30] karen: And not forcing yourself into a decision that could be wrong just because you feel like you have to make the actions 

[00:41:36] deborah: right. Or have an answer. 

[00:41:37] robyn: I think that, that's the thing is that I could be at a party and people ask, what are you up to? And what's going on? And there's a lot going on But do I know exactly how it's going to play out?

[00:41:47] No, but yet you feel like you have to have an answer or else something's wrong with you. And I think acknowledging that right now that the, I don't know is okay. And being confident in the, I don't know, [00:42:00] is actually freeing. 

[00:42:01] deborah: It can be 

[00:42:02] karen: powering in a way to empowering three. 

[00:42:05] deborah: it allows you to change course to, it allows you to say, oh, I was thinking this, but you know what?

[00:42:10] This is what came up. And it allows you to just really have flow and navigate and when things aren't happening, nothing should take a lot of effort. Now I'm not saying working hard, I'm all about working hard and working, I love working.

[00:42:24] But it shouldn't have to be, oh, I'm trying to make this happen and make it happen. It's sort of like, okay, if it's not happening, nothing in nature does that, it doesn't try to make a plant. Doesn't try to grow through the rock or cause if it's going to grow through the rock, it's going, or it's going to go around it, it's going to find another way.

[00:42:40] So we need to remember that, what would nature do right now? It would find a way and you are going to find a way, all of you, we're all going to find a way. 

[00:42:49] robyn: And again, we are in so many times that way comes through synchronicity through divinity in many ways. we're led. Karen and I always talk [00:43:00] about how we have a vision, We Haven't known exactly how it's going to play out, but it's playing out. And so much of it is guided. beyond what we can see and there's magic in that and the awe of it all, allow yourself to be in the OD that right in that. So I don't know, it's going to work out.

[00:43:19] deborah: Totally. Absolutely. It drops into your own inner knower. I don't know, but I also know that I will. Yeah,

[00:43:25] robyn: 

[00:43:25] And now you 

[00:43:26] deborah: have your book. We are so 

[00:43:28] robyn: excited about, and it feels like. In the presence of proof. Number one, will help those who are trying to understand this even more, understand the proof, but it also feels like a guide In many ways. 

[00:43:42] Can you talk about that for a moment? 

[00:43:44] deborah: The book is a little bit about my story in the beginning, and then it's about my view of what mediumship is and not even a mediumship, what we are. And if we understood what we are, people would realize mediumship is the tip of the iceberg. That's like nothing.

[00:43:58] That's not even cool compared to [00:44:00] what is possible as for what do I mean by what is possible? Being able to truly step into the person and the life that you really want to live. I really do believe that's possible for absolutely everybody, regardless of what's going on in your life, showing up, being really real with yourself, no sugar coating on yourself, owning your stuff.

[00:44:18] Good and, not so great and showing up in life. And if you have a dream, if you're thinking of something. There is a reason you're thinking that there is a reason why it was never important to me to learn how to build an electric car. That's not why I'm here on the planet. It's not why I'm here for someone else was here for that.

[00:44:35] So even if it's sounds so silly where well, I just wanted to pick dandelions all day. somebody has a desire to pick dandelions there's a reason for that. And we need to follow silliest, slightest little nuances that we really enjoy. We need to do those. Why? Well, I don't know.

[00:44:52] But we will, we that's the whole goal. So the book is about more about the nature of who we are what we are, so we can [00:45:00] kind of grasp the concept of wait a minute, how do we live? If we don't have a body, what does that look like? Will we eat there? No, we won't. We won't need to, what is consciousness?

[00:45:09] What are you talking about? Oh, consciousness is what lives on. Well, what's that? It's, what's inside of you now. What do you mean exactly? it's those conversations. So it's the bigger picture of how do we do human? Right. how do we do this human thing in a way that feels really good for.

[00:45:24] karen: I love that. And I love how you break it down, even in your social posts that you do those very simple questions that people ask. And we're very passionate about that. It's how do we take this stuff that used to be very woowoo and break it down into things that people can understand back to where we started?

[00:45:39] the difference between the psychic and a medium and what is intuition? Because people still don't really understand it and they do feel this kind of 

[00:45:46] deborah: weirdness around it. And when you break it down, 

[00:45:48] karen: like you do, and remind us all that intuition, it's that whisper, it's that spark that comes to you and you put it in those terms and everybody can relate to it and hopefully build on it in their own [00:46:00] lives.

[00:46:00] that's our goal. and 

[00:46:01] deborah: build on it to make it have a purpose and have it be useful because the human trait that makes us different is that we're following purpose. We're all chasing. We want purpose. And our purpose is right in front of us. It's what you like. What do you like, you got to go do that.

[00:46:15] Whether if you're lucky, you get to do it as a job, but even if you can't do it as your job still do it because there's a reason why we don't know, but there's a reason because not everybody likes the same stuff they've received. Pursue your passions. 

[00:46:28] robyn: And I think you said this earlier, we're all of these unique expressions, Within a human body to experience the universe in a unique way. And so everyone's going to like something different in a different way. So it's honoring that 

[00:46:43] deborah: truly. 

[00:46:44] karen: Is there a common thread that you have noticed in your readings from the energy that you channel of these souls that come to you? Like, Hey, this been a lesson that you've kind of taken away from all of these messages that you've given to people that we can share. 

[00:46:59] deborah: That is [00:47:00] also the heart of the book too. is that they're okay if they're okay. We're fine. We're good. And that is what, because of that common message, that's what prompted the books.

[00:47:09] I'm thinking. Okay. If they're so good and we're so worried about them and we're so worried about here, what is it that they're doing that they're so good because I'd like to do more of that before I get there, even though it's not a location, when I want to create more of that state of being in my physical itself, instead of waiting until I leave my body to say, I'm good.

[00:47:29] And that was the that's the whole message is what are they doing there? They're not judging. They are making no judgments and what's judgment. I'm not talking about, oh, judgy people I'm talking about. There's no delineation between any two extremes whatsoever. There's no good. There's no bad things.

[00:47:45] Just are, there's no weighing in, on something being one way or another, as soon as we quantify and we're doing it all day long and it's a really cool practice to take yourself on. As soon as you wake up in the morning, the judging happens [00:48:00] and the judging is, oh, my feet hurt. Or, oh my gosh, I forgot to clean the shower.

[00:48:04] Or, oh my gosh, the house is a mess or, oh my gosh, the house smells so good. making these judgments and just pay attention. We're going to do it. But we're so attached to. So to really experience the oh, look at that. My brain is seeing this as I'm favorable.

[00:48:17] Oh, my brain is seeing that as favorable, neither one really exists. So they're not judging there in that science calls it zero. So I always do an exercise in getting people to go to zero point, just get us to zero point. It's a neutrality, everything exists or nothing exists, but the potential for everything is existing.

[00:48:35] That is where they are. How great of a state of consciousness is that to be. And if we can walk that line a little bit more. 

[00:48:42] robyn: exactly. Not all 

[00:48:43] deborah: the time. there's sometimes where I'm triggered and I'm like, wow, everything is bad or everything has got, and that's normal. But how do you bring yourself back to zero point?

[00:48:50] How do you get back to neutral? This is what it is. This is not acceptance. I'm not even talking about not surrender. Those are good things too. But this is beyond that. This is seeing 

[00:48:59] robyn: [00:49:00] duality. I think that's a huge lesson. If we can practice that. As you said just some of the time, 

[00:49:05] karen: , because those judgments are either going to make you feel good or bad.

[00:49:08] And those are the things that have been put to you on that Seesaw. Feeling, focus and balance. 

[00:49:13] It does, it feels like an exhale. I love these little tools. 

[00:49:16] deborah:

[00:49:16] robyn: want us to end on the awe thing for a second, because we've talked about how we met we've talked on very high level, but I do want to just dig into that for one second. Share what major thread really.

[00:49:29] Opened our eyes to this. Oh my goodness. We are absolutely 100% supposed to know one another and wherever that takes us, it'll take us. Because Karen had, first of all, seen this posting for you at this hospital. where her son had really received treatments for many years. And, and to my knowledge, you haven't seen them have an intuitive meeting before, 

[00:49:57] karen: For someone who, my son was a baby at the time. So it was [00:50:00] 20 years ago. Let's just be real, but still, we were looking for reiki gingseng, like any kind of holistic treatment for the poor little baby and for us. And they looked at us like we were crazy. So can you imagine my incredible surprise when this email comes through that you were going to be doing a fundraiser for the hospital?

[00:50:18] Oh, well, I've got to support that. I have got to be part of that in some shape or 

[00:50:23] deborah: form 

[00:50:24] robyn: and it was so soon after Tyler had passed away, 

[00:50:27] karen: I had signed up for, I want to say maybe a week and a half before this death, this unbelievable, tragic death happened. And , I just happened to be in my sister-in-law's house.

[00:50:36] It was right before the week and I was like, I have to do something. And those pop up on my calendar. And I was like, I'm going to just listen in on this and just see how it, how it all goes. So the fact that 

[00:50:47] robyn: the way that, that even came into play that in itself is miraculous, honestly.

[00:50:53] So that happens. Karen has this incredible experience with you 

[00:50:59] karen: Tyler was the first [00:51:00] one to come through, by the way, on top of 

[00:51:02] deborah: remember that 

[00:51:03] karen: after he just passed. So it was just that in itself and all the clarity that came with it was 

[00:51:08] robyn: incredible. So, yes. So there's that. And then right after, called me and says, have to talk to this woman, Debra Hamlon Like we have to talk to her. I don't know how, why do we didn't know her before, but we need to know her . Now and reaches out. And we get time to talk just to really share what we're up to find out more about you and your path. And so we get on this call and Karen and I really start talking about how we came together.

[00:51:37] This is even before I think we really were diving into your own story. And Karen and I always talk about our coming together and that has to do with this presentation. We were working on a project for Oprah. And while that didn't come through at the end of this project, that's, when we really shared our inner most secrets and our own awakenings.

[00:51:59] [00:52:00] And. Karen shared with me that she put together this deck and the deck she had done several years prior, but it really spoke to this bigger vision, which many people listening know that we have this bigger vision of now creating a network. So she had this vision back in 2015, and now we're talking in 2018.

[00:52:18] She's like, let me send you the vision because it's very aligned things you're thinking about for a show. And she sends me the deck and I looked through the deck. I love it. And I go to save it to my car on my computer. And when I go to save it, I noticed that the date that the deck, the date on the deck is November 17.

[00:52:37] And it's 11, 17, and it was underscore 2015 and 1117 are my guiding numbers in life because that's my dad's birthday. I named my production company that any time, which isn't very often that I see 1117 out in the world, I know there was a significance to it. And so when I went to go save this, I was in such complete shock that it was [00:53:00] 11 and 17.

[00:53:00] I started crying. I knew that Karen was going to be my business partner at that moment. It just all hit me. I knew my dad was with me. And we're telling you Deborah, this story, and we keep going on, because then I'm telling you about how 1117 is important. And I see you on the, on zoo. With tears coming down and I'm thinking, wow, she's really empathetic.

[00:53:22] she's an intuitive, medium, she's feeling that. And then you can finish telling that part of this. 

[00:53:28] deborah: Well, I had to apologize cause I was like, oh my God, Deb, hold it together. Even now I'm tearing up. Even just hearing it, but I'm like, hold it together. stop, But 11, 17 is my guiding numbers because that is my brother's birthday.

[00:53:42] And so that is what I always ask for is like, give me a wink. And 11, 17 is part of the sort of series of winks that I received. So you're going on about 11, 17. All right, Christopher, I hear you. I getting so overwhelmed 

[00:53:56] robyn: wow. And then I'm like, stop 

[00:53:58] deborah: making me cry. okay, [00:54:00] enough. I'm trying to be appropriate right now.

[00:54:03] You were so gracious. 

[00:54:04] karen: That's right. 

[00:54:05] robyn: We had no idea until you let us go out and we can talk.

[00:54:09] deborah: I'm like wiping tears, like feeling so stupid, like, okay, just pull myself together. please let me just pull myself to get together in front of these women. I don't know, 

[00:54:18] karen: It was the most bonding thing that probably could have 

[00:54:20] deborah: happened. 

[00:54:22] karen: We're always looking for That affirmation from somewhere that we're on the right path or we're with the right people, we're doing the right things. And when you get something so profoundly significant like that, it's more than I think. 

[00:54:36] robyn: And it's exactly it. I think about it actually now

[00:54:39] all the time, because it's so rare. And I'm thinking okay, I don't know. I just know we're supposed to know each other. I know we're supposed to be friends and wherever else 

[00:54:51] deborah: Right. That's how I feel, literally, and you kept going, you kept saying it over and over. And I was like, wow, this is incredible.

[00:54:58] People will say, oh, it's a coincidence. we [00:55:00] couldn't have choreographed that we couldn't have made that whole thing happen. Do you know what I mean? Because that will happen 2015. Then the file would say that speaks to time and energy and all of that, that was in the working back then.

[00:55:13] That's right. That moment. It was in the works back then. Wow. 

[00:55:17] karen: That's so true. And I think we told you I had 20,000 versions of that file. That was just the one, 

[00:55:24] robyn: her guides or somebody knew when she sent that, that was the one to send to me, but yes, exactly.

[00:55:30] It's just so significant. And I think the all of that took for that moment and these different, very significant moments to happen. And I think everybody listening should know, you can have these magical moments, in your life, just pay 

[00:55:46] deborah: attention. not push them away and not like say the IL that was coincidence.

[00:55:50] it's really not coincidence. Or people will say I think I just wanted that to be a sign. I think I made it up and I'll say to them, okay. And then make it up again right now. We have to remember these things are just little [00:56:00] mile posts, They are. 

[00:56:01] karen: Particularly in those moments when you're really arch, trying to get the affirmation that you are going in the right direction. It's not like, oh, should I take route 65 or route two? It is done. when it's really significant and you don't expect it. Those are those moments where you just feel like, gosh, okay.

[00:56:18] So all of this is really 

[00:56:19] deborah: real. I am not making that.

[00:56:23] karen: Exactly. And it's what you were saying earlier. Are you ever going to just have, it's this idea of experiencing the afterlife and at the moment, It's bringing that into the present. It's not a separation 

[00:56:34] deborah: and not a separation. There is no separation of anything. we have an afterlife tour college days, we're in the afterlife of that.

[00:56:40] We're in the afterlife of, my children are no longer infants I'm in the afterlife of that. So every single thing has an afterlife. We never look at it that way. We just look at it that was then. And this there, but that separation and it's like, no, no, no. There's no such thing as individual delineation of anything, it's all in a flowing [00:57:00] timepiece.

[00:57:00] karen: I love conversations like this, cause I always feel like we're just so connected there isn't the set person. It's just an affirmation that all of this work that we want to do, all these things, that your journey, my journey Robin's journey. It's all brought us here to share. celebrate what we've been doing with our lives and what we want to continue to do and share with other people.

[00:57:22] , 

[00:57:22] it's wonderful. is there anything Deb that you want to share 

[00:57:25] deborah: Yeah, I do a weekly meditation group on Sunday nights on zoom. And I always tell people when people say, I want a session, I want a session.

[00:57:32] There's only so many sessions I can do. So I always tell people, start with my meditation group. That way you get a sense of me. You get a sense of if I resonate with you, if you resonate with me. So meditation is Sunday at Eastern time, And any of your listeners that are hearing this, if they want to try it, they could just email my And then we will send them a trial zoom code so that they can get a sense of it. Before they decide that they want to join [00:58:00] in, although it's, you could join in weekly, there's a monthly subscription. There's all different ways to do that. But that's why I would tell everybody as the entry point, because it's not just mediumship, it's a whole personal development arena, because mediumship is just a small snippet of it.

[00:58:14] In my opinion, there's so much more 

[00:58:16] robyn: you're there to serve really different areas of people's lives at different points in their lives. 

[00:58:22] And you can find Deborah at Deborah, D E B O R a H Hanlon, H a N L O Debra, which will have everything in the show notes as well. But absolutely go check out all the opportunities to work with Deborah because there really are many.

[00:58:42] You can also follow Deborah on social, on Instagram and Facebook at I am Deborah hanlon and you can also find her book in the presence of proof on her website and on Amazon, we are so grateful to have had this conversation today. Thank you so much, Deborah

The Afterlife: The Presence of Proof