Seeking Center: The Podcast

Taking the WooWoo Out of Wellness + Getting Your Life Back on Track - Episode 46

January 09, 2023 Robyn Miller Brecker, Karen Loenser, Lizzi Cutler Season 2 Episode 46
Taking the WooWoo Out of Wellness + Getting Your Life Back on Track - Episode 46
Seeking Center: The Podcast
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Seeking Center: The Podcast
Taking the WooWoo Out of Wellness + Getting Your Life Back on Track - Episode 46
Jan 09, 2023 Season 2 Episode 46
Robyn Miller Brecker, Karen Loenser, Lizzi Cutler

When several people mention the same person to Karen and I within a week…we know it’s a sign.. And on top of it they use words like, spectacular, transformative, powerful…even more of a reason to meet this person right away! Who is this new soul friend?  

In this case it’s Lizzi Cutler – and she is all that and more!

With a career expanding over 15 years, Lizzi is a Healing Arts Trainer focusing on the mind, body and spirit. Using her expertise in meditation and coaching, Lizzi designs a customized-path for each client to change the way they respond to mental and physical stress.

Trained in Asia, the United States and the United Kingdom, Lizzi’s comprehensive knowledge helps clients reduce stress, anxiety and increase productivity. Her judgment-free practice provides the tools required to shift out of the old stories that keep us stuck.

Through group and private sessions, Lizzi’s coaching is unique and beneficial to anyone looking to explore themselves and live a more fulfilling life.

Karen and I both experienced working with Lizzi – and we can attest she is able to pinpoint what you most need to pay attention to…and give you the support and steps needed to get you back on track to a better every day.

Want to start digging into those old beliefs so you can feel free to live your best life now?  Check out our Getting Unstuck series with Lizzi!

You can find out more about working with Lizzi at You can even try her free meditations there as well – we highly recommend them!

You can also follow her on Instagram @lizzicutler

Visit for more from Robyn + Karen, plus mega inspo -- and the best wellness + spiritual practitioners, products and experiences on the planet!

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

When several people mention the same person to Karen and I within a week…we know it’s a sign.. And on top of it they use words like, spectacular, transformative, powerful…even more of a reason to meet this person right away! Who is this new soul friend?  

In this case it’s Lizzi Cutler – and she is all that and more!

With a career expanding over 15 years, Lizzi is a Healing Arts Trainer focusing on the mind, body and spirit. Using her expertise in meditation and coaching, Lizzi designs a customized-path for each client to change the way they respond to mental and physical stress.

Trained in Asia, the United States and the United Kingdom, Lizzi’s comprehensive knowledge helps clients reduce stress, anxiety and increase productivity. Her judgment-free practice provides the tools required to shift out of the old stories that keep us stuck.

Through group and private sessions, Lizzi’s coaching is unique and beneficial to anyone looking to explore themselves and live a more fulfilling life.

Karen and I both experienced working with Lizzi – and we can attest she is able to pinpoint what you most need to pay attention to…and give you the support and steps needed to get you back on track to a better every day.

Want to start digging into those old beliefs so you can feel free to live your best life now?  Check out our Getting Unstuck series with Lizzi!

You can find out more about working with Lizzi at You can even try her free meditations there as well – we highly recommend them!

You can also follow her on Instagram @lizzicutler

Visit for more from Robyn + Karen, plus mega inspo -- and the best wellness + spiritual practitioners, products and experiences on the planet!

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter

Robyn: [00:00:00] I'm Robyn Miller Brecker, 

Karen: and I'm Karen Loenser. Welcome to seeking center. The podcast,

Robyn: join us each week as we have the conversations and weed through the spiritual and holistic clutter for you, we'll boil it down to what you need to know. Now 

Karen: we're all about total wellness, which to us needs building a healthy life on a physical, mental, and spiritual level.

We'll talk to the trailblazers who will introduce you to the practices, products, and experiences. That may be just what you need to hear about to transform your life. 

If you're listening to this, it's no accident. Think of this as your seeking center and your place to seek your center. And for even more mega inspo sign up for seeking center.

The newsletter at seeking center . 

Robyn: When several people mentioned the same person within a week, Karen, and I know it's a sign, clearly we're supposed to know, said person, and on top of it, they use words like spectacular, transformative, powerful, even more of a reason to meet this person right [00:01:00] away.

Who is this new soul friend? In this case, it's Lizzi Cutler, and she is all that and more. With the career expanding over 15 years, Lizzi is a healing arts trainer, focusing on the mind, body, and spirit. Using her expertise in meditation and coaching, Lizzi designs a customized path for each client to change the way they respond to mental and physical stress trained in Asia, the United States, and the United Kingdom.

Lizzi's comprehensive knowledge helps clients reduce stress, anxiety, and increase product. Her judgment-free practice provides the tools required to shift out of the old stories that keep us stuck through group and private sessions. Lizzi's coaching is unique and beneficial to anyone looking to explore themselves and live a more fulfilling life.

Karen and I both experience working with Lizzi and we can attest. She's able to pinpoint what you most need to pay attention to and give you the support and steps needed to get you back on track to a better every day. [00:02:00] Let's get talking. Hi, Lizzi. 


Lizzi: Lizzi. Hi, ladies. That was such a lovely intro. I have chills.

Thank you. 

Robyn: All true. Thank you. . 

Karen: As Robyns was doing the intro. I'm writing down and reaffirming some of the words that she chose in writing that intro because it doesn't apply to everyone. We're so excited that you're here and that we can share your gifts, your journey with 

Lizzi: everybody that's listening.

Thank you. Thank you. I'm so thrilled to be here. 

Robyn: And let's talk about how you describe your work to people. 

Lizzi: Yeah, so this is a work in progress for me because every title that I've given feels.

either a little bit cringey or just not quite right. So I don't love the word healer because I think that what I'm doing is showing people how to heal themselves. I don't think that I have that power to heal anybody but myself, and what I do is I help people figure out what old programs are keeping them stuck in neutral and help them shift out of it and move forward.

And so if anybody has a creative title for that, please let me know. . 

Robyn: And I know what [00:03:00] you're saying in the sense of, it's hard to put that in a title. I love actually the way that you just put that and the words you've chosen on your site and how to explain things. 

Lizzi: Yeah. And it's taken time I'm always tweaking it, but to get clear and clear on my website of Oh, this is what I'm doing. And when I first started doing this, I thought I would be able to help people shift patterns or habits that they had that they didn't wanna have anymore. And as I was working with clients, more and more, the feedback I was getting was, I'm just not responding to stress the same way.

So it's not that I'm gonna quit my job or that my mother-in-law isn't driving me crazy and I'm not gonna talk to her anymore. It's just the trigger doesn't sit for as long. So yeah, she's still annoying. And yeah, my clients are still hard. I recover after an hour instead of stewing in that mental loop that we get in like in the shower of having the fake fight for three weeks, you get out of that faster.

And to me it was like, oh, that's a game changer and that can actually create massive impact. 

Karen: I think so many of us and we've talked a lot about this on the podcast too, is that we don't recognize exactly [00:04:00] what is triggering us to have that anxiety. To have that emotions, and then all we try to do is fix it on the surface level.

And what you do is have this great way of going in deeper so that you can identify where is the true source and start really looking 

Lizzi: at that and working on that. So that started because I was realizing. . Once I got to an age where I was using my words and I had a voice and I would say to people, listen, it really hurts my feelings when you do this and this.

It was almost like I started playing whack-a-mole. So someone else would come up and do the same thing. And I realized I can't preemptively control what people are gonna say to me, but it makes my heart sink and it makes my feelings hurt. And then through this process of energy work and the edits that I was doing, I was recognizing it was something from my childhood that was being triggered of my, not enoughness, it had nothing to do with what they were saying.

It was that their words were triggering my not enoughness. And once I saw that, it was like my conscious mind was now in alignment with my subconscious mind. And my conscious mind wasn't believing what my subconscious mind had been telling [00:05:00] me since I was. and that changed the game, It still hit, it still triggered, it still made my heart sink, but I could bounce back faster knowing, oh sweet girl, that's just your little girl self thinking that you needed a man in order to have value moving on.

And we would bounce back and I was like, oh, this is 

Robyn: powerful. Yeah. And even since Karen and I both have had sessions with you individually, we've both noticed the patterns that you've uncovered for us and the way in which you also are able to translate that in words, and then also the feeling you get, for me, I'm finding it in certain areas of my day in certain meetings with people, I see it and now I'm able to really identify it and to your.

It doesn't make it not hurt at all or not bother you whatever the reaction for you is, but you are aware, the awareness then helps you figure out how you really do wanna react 

Lizzi: in the moment. Yeah. And so the next step of the work, and I'm jumping ahead of this whole conversation, but the way that I start with clients is [00:06:00] I do the work.

So I have you, as you guys know, lay on your couch, lay in your bed, and I just go through your body, physical, emotional and soul self to figure out what's out of alignment. And then I'm given by your higher self and your guides my highest self and my guides are communicating and I'm given the language to put it into sort of something tangible of okay, this is why your hip is hurting.

It's trying to get your awareness on this issue that's coming up. The next step of it is, what I call energy editing. And I was taught that by somebody and I've morphed it into a different kind of a practice. But in those sessions is where I can show you where that programming came from as a little person, or it might have been a past life or whatever it is that you're carrying.

And that's where the massive change happens. So that's where it stops triggering so much. So like Robyn, that's amazing that you're already feeling stuff and that's huge. And the way that it normally works with people is after two or three sessions, that's when the real thing starts happening.

Where it's my mom said this thing and I didn't trigger, like I didn't have to yell at her. That [00:07:00] was huge, right? we were home together for all of Thanksgiving and I was fine. So it's that next step of, I can only do so much. But when you are doing it for yourself, then it's, 

Robyn: I'll just share the the example Karen and I were in a meeting with an investor, and one of the patterns you uncovered for me was, as a little girl, I would always anticipate when I was going to be let down or I was going to hear something I didn't want to hear or trigger almost.

I don't know if it's harsh words and so I would anticipate it. So what, I didn't wanna hear that. And I didn't want that person to have to even say that they were disappointed or I didn't do something right. And I noticed it in that meeting yesterday, Karen. Wow. That was happening.

And I felt. I acknowledged where my brain was going cuz I could anticipate what we were going to hear. I didn't want to hear it. And so I was already coming up with oh, here's the, here's a way we can make this work. That's how I work in life.

I know. And you [00:08:00] actually were able to articulate in a, that, in a way that had never been articulated. And nuanced. It's a very nuanced 

Lizzi: thing. Did it shift anything for you? Did it allow you to sit in the moment without having to fix it and make them comfortable? 

Robyn: yes it did.

However, I think I wanted to make myself and Karen comfortable 

Lizzi: oh. That's better because I feel like your old pattern was to make them comfortable. That's right. And I no. It's fine. Little 

Robyn: good's a great point. I, no, it wasn't really to make them comfortable. Good. It was really I was thinking, what's gonna work 

Lizzi: for us?


Karen: What else came through, I think in the session that we had that is so helpful? I think for anybody who's listening, who is looking for a new modality to try, is that it's so multidimensional what you do. The way you go into the session is that kind of connecting with the higher Angels guides.

 That are collectively working together. So you feel at the very beginning that you're going into to an energy session. And as you do and identify those places where the work needs to happen it triggers the things that need to come to the surface. And then what I loved in the second half of [00:09:00] our session is that you just sat up and you're like, okay.

And had the conversation back and forth. So it wasn't like you were just handing out information. We were able to action it and dive a little bit deeper into it. And then the other thing I love that you did too was if something didn't make sense, to me. You went back and sometimes you'd even catch yourself, like, how do I make this clear?

What do I need to say? And it just made me feel so cared for. you were really wanting to make sure that the full information that I needed to hear was delivered. And it was, in the sense of how you work, it was just really a 

Lizzi: lovely journey. Yeah. So it, thank you for saying that.

And it is a lot of especially in that first session, it's basically an intuitive reading, but I'm reading your physical body and your energetic body and the whole thing about it is like, these things don't make sense to me. So throughout the session I'll say, is this making sense to you? Do you need more info?

I can feel it and I can see it, but I need to make sure it's landing. And if it's not, there's usually a reason, So it's dig a little deeper. And the reason I love giving tangible, actionable items is because there is [00:10:00] nothing more frustrating to me through my whole journey than having someone say, oh, just let it go.

Don't let it bother you. Just let it go. Just don't do that anymore. that never made sense to me. And it always drove me nuts. And when I was first doing this, I could feel where people were stuck, but I didn't know how to necessarily trust the info to get it outta my mouth. And so it felt like I could say wow, your left hip is really wonky.

Good luck with that. , that's where you've got something going on. Good luck. Best wishes, So it was. , what's the point of that? And so I went around doing all these different trainings, working with all these different people, intuitive healers. And someone said to me, is this like reiki?

And other people have said it's reiki on crack. it's reiki times a gajillion. No disrespect to Reiki, but for me personally, when I did my Reiki trainings, I never felt anything. And it wasn't until I was practicing on people, these images would come through or I would feel things in my own body and I would start saying it to them this makes no sense to me.

What is this? And they were like, I don't know, but move your hands cuz you're burning me. I was [00:11:00] like, something very weird is happening here. And then it morphed and developed. But again, it never felt good to just say, this is what feels messed up. 

Robyn: Let it go. Yeah. And I think. . The reason why Karen and I started this conversation asking how you describe your work, and then really organically we jumped into what it's been like working with you and what a session could be like is because what you do is something that no one else does, and it's hard to explain that, right?

 And I think you do such a good job explaining it. Cuz then you just have to, you have to just experience it. Karen and I always say, when you're doing something, no one ever done before. You're doing something that no one's ever done before.

And so it's helpful though, I think for you to say and or compare it to a degree, to reiki, just so people get an understanding if they know what reiki is, because people understand that's energy healing. But this is your own thing. It's 

Lizzi: your own experience. . Yeah. And I think what I usually tell people is you don't have to feel stuck in order to need a session.

It's more just about gaining [00:12:00] insight in how to get into that aligned state with your soul's purpose. . So that feeling that so many of us have of I know there's something else out there for me. I just haven't quite, there's something on the tip of my tongue and I just, it's just right there. I feel like a lot of the info I'm given is how to get you back into that flow and that groove with your true soul purpose and true soul self.

Karen: Yeah. And again, I think what you were saying earlier is so true about us not even recognizing half the times the things that we are carrying with us That are maybe not standing in the way, but are slowing the process for us to be able to really get where we want to be. And 

it's that subconscious stuff that is there. And you did a great job of explaining to me, like I was saying I don't know why I would feel unworthy. I grew up in this amazing household of recognition, but you said it could be the tiniest little offhanded comment by a teacher or something that just literally just gets stuck there and it just, every time a certain situation comes around, you get [00:13:00] triggered and you don't know the source, but it still has that same effect on sabotaging your journey a bit.

And so the more we can get to that and recognize that the freer 

Lizzi: we can be. Yeah. The way that I normally explain it is if, for those of you who have kids or have been around kids, when a baby is really young, it's like their energy field is just this open funnel. . And so they feel something, they emote it immediately.

If they're happy, they giggle really hard. If they're sad, they cry really hard and they have no problem just moving it through. And then once they're using language and they can understand language in the beginning, they have no way of discerning fact from fiction, specifically from the adults around them.

Like they know adults are, and I put this in air quotes are right, because adults are who you go to for the answers to things, and they're the rule makers. So if we hear adults around us say, you have to work really hard to earn a good living. And if you wanna have a nice life, you have to start working really hard.

And that's how you do it, right? The adult is trying to teach the child about hard work and perseverance, but it could get programmed in there [00:14:00] as work equals stress. , Work means I lose my freedom or I lose my fun. Or when it comes to weight, right? So many of us, specifically women have all these stories around our weight.

My grandma used to say to my sister and I, girls, don't bite your nails, or No boy's gonna wanna hold your hand. And she was being funny and she was probably saying, don't bite your nails. It's gross. And the messaging was, you have to look a certain way because the goal is to get picked. You want a boy to wanna hold your hand, and that's the win, right?

So all little things like that, that just get stuck, like little chunks of gravel in that funnel and then all of a sudden the energy can't flow anymore because we're telling ourselves, I have ugly hands. My nails aren't great. I'm not pretty. or I'm not making enough money, I'm not working hard enough, and if I do start making money, it's gonna mean I'm gonna be so busy and then I'm not gonna be a good mom because I'm not gonna be home enough.

And it's always some version of not enough. And it's the fill in the blank. I'm not pretty enough. I'm not wealthy enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not fast enough, I'm not qu, [00:15:00] whatever the enoughness is. And because it was programmed when we were such little beings, we didn't have an analytical mind yet.

And so to recognize it now as adults, we've never known life without it. So how do you recognize something from within when it's always been there? . And that's where the outside help is helpful. . 

Karen: And what you do too is the coaching aspect too. So I love this duality of getting into the energy of getting into those like physical things that we're carrying with us in our subconscious that we don't know we're there, and then actually actioning that.

And it gets there quick too because you can physically, energetically detect it. Whereas if it was just a regular coaching session, I feel like it would take so much longer because we hide a lot of that from the outside world and you can you can identify it in someone's 

Lizzi: energy.

And one of the brilliant things that I think in there when you just said we hide it, it's like our little kid self is so brilliant at setting up alarms, So oh, I'm starting to work too much. I'm getting into that. I call them double binds. I'm getting into that [00:16:00] thing where. , I'm getting more successful and that feels good because I wanna create impact and I wanna have more financial freedom, and I wanna have more influence on this cool thing.

That's my passion. And so that feels really good. I want more. But I'm also telling myself that as I get more, I'm gonna be busier. And then what does that mean for the other areas of my life? And depending on what your programming was as a kid, all that stuff is really deeply hidden and it's really good at staying hidden.

And so we go through the spiral of, I'm gonna hit that number, then I'm gonna have some little self-sabotage, then I'm gonna get a little bit closer. Then I'm gonna self-sabotage again. And we know that the universe can only say yes. So the universe is gonna say yes to, I want more work. Let's push on that side of the door.

Yes, here's more work and more work equals stress. So okay, here's more stress. . It's not gonna feel good. It's not gonna flow, it's not gonna be easy. And that's the stuckness, cuz you're pushing on both sides of the same door. Both ways that the universe can say yes to you. It's really clear in like partnerships and money [00:17:00] and financial freedom and weight loss.

Like I wanna lose weight. I'll feel better once I lose weight. But if I'm losing weight, I'm not enjoying myself, I'm not as happy, or there's something risky about it, then people are looking at me in a different way. And then I have to keep it off. And so either option, either I'm keeping the weight on or I'm losing the weight, but either option is stressful and that's the stuck, It's such a trip. 

Robyn: I am sure that is resonating with so many people right 

Lizzi: now. Yeah. We all have it. We all have it. It's just the, and I go back to this it's brilliant. in our programming that we don't recognize it. It's because it's been there forever. We've never known life without it. And it's there to stay hidden because it thinks it's keeping us safe, right?

That's right. the whole impetus behind it is stay safe. Don't touch the hot stove. You touch that once and it really hurt. So as you get warmer, we're gonna trigger you and make sure you back off before you get burned again. So thank you little girl, that was really helpful. I just don't need it anymore.

I have new tools to use now. So here's a 

Robyn: question. Once [00:18:00] you uncover something that's hidden, how does it feel once you are 

Lizzi: deprogramming? Once we're working in that space, I ask people to commit to six sessions and each session is two hours on Zoom and we do all the work together on Zoom together.

And that's where we're like, I call it weeding out. It's when you're first weeding and some of 'em are really hard and the roots are way deep in there and you can't get it. Those are the ones that we're getting, and it'll be things like a fear of being ferocious, or fear of being in control, or fear of being manipulated, fear of being fierce, fear of being too confident, fear of being ignored, Things like that will come up and we'll start uncovering oh my God, in second grade this thing happened with this group of girls. I was so confident that we were all friends and everybody loved me, and one day I showed up to school and they all said they didn't wanna be friends with me anymore.

 It's like the rug getting pulled out from under you. I then programmed, don't ever get too comfortable and don't ever feel too safe because you don't wanna get sideswiped again. Fear of being content, fear, I'm broken. And so as we start [00:19:00] uncovering those things, now your conscious brain can see what your subconscious brain was vibrating on.

Because if you think about the vibration of the fear of being content, there's that line. And most type A women that I work with a lot of really busy professional women who are in that state of, I've gotta stay on my edge. If I stay on my edge, if I don't get too comfortable in what I'm doing, I'll stay in that space of being highly productive.

And if I get too comfortable, I'm gonna forget that I need to stay highly productive. I'm gonna lose that edge and that fierceness and then I'm just gonna get bulldozed. . And so it's safer for me to stay uncomfortable than to feel confident and cruise and the challenges the universe is saying yes to that.

So you keep saying out loud and having all these mantras and all these practices of, I am confident and my millions are flowing in and everything is working out and I'm easily on my path. But what you're vibrating on is fear of being fierce. [00:20:00] Cuz if I'm too fierce in the wrong environment, I'm gonna get slammed.

I'm either gonna be a bitch and they're gonna say, I'm a bitch because I'm too fierce and I'm too cocky. Or I'm gonna get the feedback that I really need to step up my game and I really need to engage a little bit more. . But either way, I'm supposed to know how to magically navigate this tightrope line of fierceness and confidence.

And every room I step into, it's a completely different scale and I've just gotta stay on it no matter where I am. And that vibration of the fear of is what the universe is saying yes to. So that's the misalignment, right? That discomfort that you feel. I call it your ego self, your functioning self, your 3d.

Let's go through the motion. Self is out of alignment from your highest self. And that disconnect is the anxiety you feel. That's that inner turmoil, that like itchiness, that you feel inside that discomfort is those two not agreeing with each other because my highest self feels nothing but pure, unconditional love.

For every move, every choice, every step that I take in this [00:21:00] 3D physical form. And the second I start telling myself, I'm not enough because, or I have to fear this thing because my highest self says later, babe, have fun with that. And the beauty is, it's an amazing detector and locator for this is what to pay attention to.

But as children, we're taught power through. You're uncomfortable. Buck up, babe. Life's hard. Keep moving. So our highest self is giving us these indicators. It's feeding us the information all day, every day. We're just used to dissociating from it, ignoring it, powering through it and as a way to keep life moving instead of saying, oh, there's my hint.

Karen: We look at it as a weakness. Versus a beacon of truth of where we really are and Yeah. It was, that was, I'm so resonating with 

Robyn: everything. I'm actually like tearing up. 

Lizzi: It's the flashlight. That discomfort, that anxiety. Notice what you're telling yourself, you were just thinking about right before it.

That's the bullshit. That's your bullshit detector. 

Robyn: I also was asking about how it feels once you Start to uncover [00:22:00] because to your point of trying to keep ourselves feeling safe and secure and things in quotes smoothly. Yes. Going in quotes smoothly.

I wanted people who are listening, cuz I know so many people who are scared of feeling any sort of pain and so they. , they'll take things to escape the pain. They'll keep themselves too busy to escape the pain. What I want people to know is that once you actually uncover it, it doesn't feel painful.

It, you might emote, like on our session, I cried the whole time. not like a sobbing cry. I just couldn't stop. For me, I'm emotional anyway, and there was tears were coming, but I felt relief. And I guess what I'm trying to say is I hope people listening, don't fear facing it because you 

Lizzi: will feel relief.

Yeah. And I will say these sessions they're hard. It's work, but because I'm in it with you, nothing that I'm giving you, , your how yourself isn't gonna guide you anywhere that you're not ready to go. That's part of why I ask people to commit and at least start with six sessions.

Most people [00:23:00] go on and do more because it starts feeling so good. Because it's like you're losing 20 pounds of that energetic weight on you after each session. And so most people come back and say, I feel so much lighter. I feel like I'm not carrying that burden anymore. I feel like I'm not afraid to go.

I'm not having the anxiety for three weeks before I'm going and being with my parents or this client meeting or whatever, right? I'm not afraid of the thing that's coming anymore. And so you feel lighter and most people feel more content and they can sit in their own feelings more. And so as you come more into alignment with yourself, it's the freedom, the shackles are shaking off of you.

So yes, it's hard and yes, you have to show up, but. , I would say 99% of my clients aren't dreading our sessions. It's not like a therapy session where like you're digging out all of this stuff and it's so hard. And this is like fast, easy, quick work. There's no homework involved. I never did homework when coaches or people would give me homework of you have to now meditate for 20 minutes a day.

I would do it for three days, and then [00:24:00] that was the end of that. So I really I think that it's important to know the work happens when we're together. I'm doing it with you and your inner being isn't going to give you anything that you're not really ready to ditch, right? 

Karen: It's not surprising either, When you get that information, I think that's the thing. that you do is when you ask the questions, it does trigger the memory of what it is. Yes. And you can and 90% of the time, I'm sure Lizzi, it is that memory of something that happened to you when you were a little one. And so you can't judge that little one for what they felt at the time.

And it is part of you. And then once you recognize that, that's when it really happened, you can do the work of releasing that. 

Lizzi: yeah. And the beauty is the release happens as we're moving . There's nothing for you to do about it. Exactly. Exactly. And that's what I it of just felt like a faster, easier way.

People have said to me, , it feels like two hours of a session feels like six months of therapy because you're getting straight to the core of something. After [00:25:00] six sessions, I can usually get to the root. So like by the end of the sixth session now, I'm still weeding, but I'm pulling out the ones where you just barely grab it and the whole root comes out.

And by getting into that, and I don't discount the power of therapy. Therapy helped me immensely in my life. It helped me understand the players and the patterns and the I can only think of a Yiddish word right now, but like the mishigas and the crazy that was happening in my nuclear family. And that was really helpful.

The thing that I felt like I was still left with was like, now what? I still love a narcissist. I still have this pattern of being codependent. Like now what do I do with it? And the work that I'm doing now helped me. Recognize it, shift it. So now, I can smell a narcissist from a mile away. I still love them , but I can sense it right away and I can not fall into the trap, which I feel like, again, is the goal.

Karen: And it's identifying it, it's just giving it a name that you can recognize when it surfaces, gives you that power. It doesn't mean that you're always gonna resist the behavior. But [00:26:00] like to Robyn's point earlier when she was talking about the meeting yesterday, it's oh, there it is.

Yeah, exactly. And that in itself is so 

Lizzi: powerful. Yeah. And one of the things I like to give myself and clients is that feeling like Robyn, with your example giving yourself that moment of, oh, I'm noticing that I totally wanna take care of this person right now. And that's not the smartest or healthiest thing of what I'm supposed to be doing, but I'm gonna do it anyway right now.

but I'm doing it now with my eyes wide open. I'm an active creator in this pattern. It's not happening to me. And then afterwards I have to wonder what happened? So I'm an active creator versus a passive participant on this story. And now we're cooking with gas. now we've got it.


Robyn: the other thing, as people are listening, in the way that you have described what you do and trying to find that title, you don't have energy in that title, right? Energy practitioner isn't in the title. And I feel like for people who may have never done any energy work or intuitive work, it feels less scary working with you because.

 Just by [00:27:00] listening to everything you've said today there is such a practical part of all of it and a little bit of the unseen, I would love for you to talk about that for a sec because I think that's a conscious choice 

Lizzi: for you. So I started this journey as a yoga and meditation teacher and I did my training in Asia.

And as I was meditating was when I started feeling energy. And I was very much in what I call like the normal world, I came back to the States and I was teaching corporate clients and for me personally, . I didn't love going to yoga class when everything was in Sanskrit, or they were talking all about chakras because before my yoga training, I would look around and be like, I don't know what you're saying.

And now I feel like I need to study for this thing that's supposed to feel good. And I felt more like I was outside the circle than inside. And like it just didn't feel good to me. And so once I was leading, I never wanted anyone to come to my class and feel like they couldn't keep up or that they didn't understand or anything like that.

And so when I was teaching meditation, and I still do this, I don't [00:28:00] use chakras and meridian words and I don't really use any Sanskrit because I want it to be accessible. And then once I realized I was intuitive and I could feel all these things for people, it felt most comfortable for me to meet really busy professional.

High functioning people in their world and kind of mind the gap between Woohoo and this sort of like 3d, normal world because everybody needs it, right? Yes you all know that energy is a real thing. You can walk into a room, someone's back can be to you, and you can feel if they're having a really horrible day or if they're really excited with good news, you can feel that energy.

We can all do it. We are all highly intuitive. We all have that sixth sense, I'm just putting words to it to help you understand it differently, So it felt to me like when I do use the word energy worker, that's when I usually get the comment, oh, like reiki. And to me, , it felt disrespectful to Reiki practitioners, cuz that's not what I'm [00:29:00] doing.

And it also felt like it was pigeonholing me into this community that I don't feel aligned with. That's not what I'm doing. So it felt like an energy worker to me is like saying someone works in finance, Like it's that broad of an umbrella. We're all doing different things, we are all gifted.

Everybody has their own modality. And to say oh, I have a financial person too, is what do they do that means nothing. So that was important to me. And it still is. And again, back to the whole thing of if anybody has ideas of a title, for me, I'm all ears because this is always my problem.


Robyn: But it's about 

Karen: bridging the gap. And Robyn and I both, when we spoke afterwards about our session, that was, I think the thing that bubbled up is that your sessions are perfect for those people who aren't maybe coming from the meditation, yoga, reiki world, but do know that traditional therapy or traditional modalities may not be working, may be in more of that corporate mindset of okay, let me try this, but I don't wanna go too far.

And your modality, your [00:30:00] approach is perfect for that person because you understand that kind of corporate way of thinking, that sort of more traditional way of thinking. And yet you still introduce this quick and well easier way, I think faster potentially way of getting to the root of 

Lizzi: what the yeah.

The issue was, it was also really important to me when I was first doing this kind of work. people would say to me I'm a corporate lawyer and I have the Sunday scaries. Like no one has the Sunday scaries. I'm so depressed and so miserable by Saturday afternoon, thinking about what I have in the week ahead of me.

And the normal response is then quit your job. And the reality is, my family depends on this income and I make a ton of money, and part of that is the stress that goes with it. And it sucks, but I have a mortgage and I have school to pay for. I have real things that are relying on me keeping this job.

So that's why on my website I say okay, if you're not gonna change the stressor, if you're not gonna quit the corporate job that you hate, if you're not gonna stop talking to your mother, who triggers you to all end? If you're not gonna leave your partner, let's figure out a way for the trigger to not be [00:31:00] impacting you.

So that if you can't change the stressor, change the way you respond to the stress , and then it all opens up. Yeah. And I, 

Robyn: it's with all my work with so many different spiritual teachers and thought leaders that came through the doors of the Oprah Winfrey show so much of what you're saying became part of my vocabulary and my understanding, but most people don't even have words to just describe what you just have been talking about.

They were never shown to think about the awareness of those stressors and that you actually then have a choice in how you 

Lizzi: respond to them. And the reason that we don't have it, and I'm writing this down right now so I don't forget, is because we're not taught it as kids.

yes. Attention to what is your body telling you? And actually I will say, my friends now, so I just turned 43. Most of my friends' kids are like under 10. And a lot of them now will say to their adults around them, my body feels anxious right now, or My body feels nervous right now, or I feel shy right now and I [00:32:00] need a minute before I go in that big party.

And the words that kids now are being given to help people understand their feelings is unbelievable. And I was like, oh, I did that at 35. They're doing it at five. Which is amazing and beautiful. But I think if we were able to create a program like this for kids to understand, put words to what your body is feeling like.

When I'm supposed to walk into that class to take that test, it feels like someone just tied a knot in my belly. I had a friend who said to her twin girls, my friend Rachel said to her twin girls, one of 'em is really into science. And she was like, okay, I want you to imagine you have a microscope in your belly.

Is it a body kind of feeling or an emotion kind of feeling? And can you tell me what you're seeing if you put your mic microscope inside? so smart. We're the coolest mom ever. That is brilliant. Brilliant. Yeah, she's amazing. And I think that as we start shifting and as everything starts moving into not being so scared of energy work and not being so scared of alternative [00:33:00] ways of helping, as that opens up, everybody will have more language for it.

But in the meantime, we're in this corporate world. most of us are in this space of quote unquote real life of mortgages and bills and things. And so how do we make it work together and normalize it? 

Robyn: It's bridging and it's 

Lizzi: normalizing. Yeah. That's why I also like to ask people to commit to those six sessions for just two hours of session, cuz let's get in, get it moving, and then go get on with your life. 

Robyn: And they can be present. When you 

you make that commitment to be present. Then, you put everything else aside and you just focus really on themselves. Yeah. And with that work with you. . Yeah. 

Karen: And it's also, the weeding example is such a great one, right? If you pull it out but you don't do the work to make sure that the weed doesn't grow back, it's 

Lizzi: just gonna grow back.

Karen: Until you really can work through it and get it out that imprint that it's left on you it's yeah. 

Lizzi: Gonna kinda continue to always be there. Yeah.

And there is so much not enoughness, right? yeah. There is so much going in our subconscious that because we were so little, no one's sitting down with [00:34:00] us and saying okay babe, what'd you program today? ? No, don't believe that thing on Nickelodeon and that girls need to be that size and don't believe that thing you read in 17 Magazine that you have to do this and , so much of what we learned is from those awful marketing magazines, the Cosmo 17 and the Teen Beat and all those things that just morphed our expectation of what we were supposed to be, how we were supposed to be, and then moving into the world like that. It's just, it's all the unraveling that stuff so that we can be free. And actually enjoy and be present and just lighten the load on the shoulds.

Karen: It's hard to do it, it does take a level of vulnerability, but as we were saying at the beginning, the anxiety that has just continued to mount, everywhere.

, it's almost like a cumulative energy that we're living in, it's all around us. Everywhere we look, we can't really hide from it anymore. So 

Lizzi: Yeah, and it's the recognition.

I think that's so much easier, right? Like when I'm on social media, I've curated my Instagram, I don't follow everybody. I know, I follow puppies. I follow Golden retriever puppies. Comedians, I [00:35:00] make sure that when I'm on there and I tell myself I have to be on there for work. But the reality is I'm terrible at promoting myself in that way.

It feels very cringey and inauthentic to me, and that's a hard balance for me to find. But when I'm on there, I try to make sure that I'm filling my brain with things that make me feel better. If you take nothing else from this podcast, just recognize the vibration that you're in, what you're thinking about, and then if you put a frequency to it, , is it making you feel good or is it making you feel bad?

Because whatever the universe is always gonna say yes, regardless of what you are saying, the universe is saying yes to what you're vibrating on. So it doesn't matter the mantras, it doesn't matter, writing on your mirror, you are enough or you are beautiful. That's all lovely, but if you don't believe it, it's never gonna land and it's never gonna materialize.

And I hear so much, especially, December, January, February of what are you gonna manifest this year? Let's manifest. And I am of the belief that the second you want something and [00:36:00] you, understand whether it's because of what you don't want or you experience a bit of what you do want, it is manifest.

It is in your energy field of I want it because I'm here to have it. I am meant to experience this thing. And if I can just hold the feeling of being so abundant, it will come. It has to come. It doesn't even have to actualize. I'm already feeling the feeling of it being here if I just live in fantasy land.

And that to me, it's law of attraction work of what is the feeling that I wanna get. I want things because I think I will feel better once I have them, but if I can feel really good right now, then they're already coming to me. They have to. Attracts so if I'm in that feeling of not good, and anxiety and fear of, anxiety is just fear up. Fear of not having enough, fear of having too much fear of being too heavy, fear of not being, voluptuous enough. Whatever the fear is. If you can let that piece go and focus on what is really juicy and [00:37:00] delicious and amazing and good right now, and feel that vibration, everything else falls into place.

Then you get the row of green lights, then you get the front parking spot and celebrating those little wins changes, everything. That 

Robyn: is so true. So tell us how did you get to this point? How'd you get 

Karen: here? Lizzi . Yes. 

Robyn: I knew. What has been The 

Lizzi: journey? So the journey started

I think I've always been doing this. I think a lot of us who call ourselves now empaths, I think we're all em empathic. I think we are all empaths. I think some of us feel more than others. But I think I've always felt it and I didn't know it or recognize it or know to put words to it And then I was doing the yoga meditation thing, and the more I was meditating the more I was feeling and hearing and seeing and understanding, and I was real into it.

People say, didn't that freak you out? No. I was like, oh, let's dance. Let's do this. This is so cool. And started practicing with people and trying to figure out how the gift worked. And I would ask people, show me a picture of someone I don't. and [00:38:00] I would read them and then I would ask people, okay, set me up with someone's first name and phone number so I can do an intuitive reading session over the phone, but I just want a first name cause I wanna know that I can't look them up on Facebook.

I can't Google them, I wanna know nothing. And I would read them and nail it and then I was like, okay let's see where else we can go. And then I just started doing all these different trainings and stuff. And the more I did, the more I could sift through this feels good to me, that doesn't feel like it's my thing.

And just put these pieces and parts of different modalities together to create my own version of what works for me. And I think it's still morphing and developing. And this is where I've landed for right now. . I help busy professionals change the way they respond to stress. And that's not to say that all of my clients have full-time jobs.

I work with plenty of full-time parents or whatever, busy people who wanna figure out what that next step is to getting more in alignment. That thing that's just on the tip of your tongue getting unstuck, getting to that [00:39:00] next level, launching that next thing, that's where I help people go. And for now that feels amazing.

the fact that I can be impactful feels incredible to me. If people 

Karen: are listening, obviously I'm sure everybody wants to work with you right now. , 

Robyn: I agree. , 

Karen: But if you were, I'm thinking about your journey specifically, because I think so many of the people who listen to our podcast are very interested and also growing their own intuitive capabilities and tuning into others as well as themselves.

So for you it felt like it was a little bit part of your d n a growing up, but for those who may just be starting this process and trying to explore their own intuition, what kind of thoughts do you have to share about how to practice that to become more open, even just to their own gifts?

Lizzi: Yeah. Fortunately, or unfortunately, I think the fastest, easiest way is through meditation. . And I say unfortunately because I know having the willpower and the dedication to create a true practice can be hard for a lot of us, and I get it. But you gotta get quiet, right? [00:40:00] you gotta find a way to tune out some of the noise in order to hear, because it is subtle.

And, I've done these sessions in person and virtually, and I strongly prefer doing them virtually because I can be on my couch, I can be comfortable and I can get quiet enough that I can feel my own body, and that allows me to happen easier. So I think so much of it is trying other people's modalities and then being really clear that it's about what works for you and it doesn't have to take on someone else's process.

So I don't necessarily have to meditate before I do a session. And if I go for a walk, a lot of times I feel really good and I feel really clear. And like for you Karen, we talked about your runs, being where you hear it and where you connect the most. And I don't discount that. I think that if you know what your groove is, you gotta stay in your own groove and ignore what anybody else is saying.

And I have helped people, like I have clients where in our first few sessions I'm like, oh, you're hearing, you just don't know that you're hearing, and [00:41:00] this is how we're gonna introduce you to your gift. So if you've got that sort of itch or hints of, I know I have something, I just wanna crank it up, totally reach out and I'll do my best to help you find that.


Robyn: we all have that inner voice number one. 

Lizzi: Yeah. And 

Robyn: we all actually are receiving guidance and messages 

Lizzi: always. And there, 

Robyn: to your point, it is subtle. And some people do need the help, I think, yeah. in understanding and listening and trusting 

Lizzi: it. I also think it's important to know your body, your physical body is one of the fastest, easiest ways for your intuitive self to get your attention.

So I usually tell people the thing that I'm reading in your emotions and in your physical body is your higher selves way of communicating with you. It's the only way for it to get your attention. So your higher self is either gonna make you feel something physically or emotionally.

So if you wanted to just pay attention to that, sometimes I'll ask people like, find a yes no, it's like muscle testing, but internally, so feel is it in your belly? Is it in your [00:42:00] pelvic floor? Is it in your chest? Do you feel an opening And ask a yes, no question. Is my name Lizzy and feel a yes?

No. And then you can take it farther, Do I live in Chicago? Is today whatever day today I'll ask a bunch of yes no questions and then start asking the other things that I want. Is this the right path for me? Should I take this meeting? Should I book this session? Should I do this thing?

 And use that. Is that helpful? Very. 

Karen: Yeah. Cause they're all very simple. And I actually really like the one about. getting quiet. I think a lot of people wouldn't think or maybe define meditation necessarily that way.

They think it's a practice that is associated with a timer or a mantra. Yeah. As opposed to you're right, my run is my meditation because it is the place that I can literally go and let my mind 

Lizzi: just float. Yeah. And I think that's an important piece and a lot of, I think meditation teachers and traditional teachers would hate me for saying this, but I think the idea that you have to sit and you have to, be chanting ohm with your fingers touching and that mudra I don't think that's the only way to get into that place.

I think most runners, I don't think [00:43:00] it's the runner's high, but I know for me when I'm running, I equate it with, remember when we used to come home and press play on the answering machine? and you would let all your answering machine messages play through and then it rewind and delete all of them and start fresh.

I felt like that's what my runs would do is cycle through all the thoughts that were dying to be heard. And because I wasn't on my phone and I didn't have anything else to watch but do my run, I could get through it all. So that to me. Same. Same. Yeah. 

Robyn: That's what running does for 

Lizzi: me.

Karen: Yeah. Or a shower. We've talked about that before or a shower. 

Lizzi: Yes. A hundred percent. And you 

Robyn: also have meditations on your site. You have 

Lizzi: several free ones. Yeah. And I like making them different times. So if you're just starting out, people will say to me, how long do I have to meditate for it to work?

It's how long are you gonna be willing to meditate for? Cuz then it works. I have a five minute morning meditation that just gets you in that vibration of gratitude. And I think that's a really important way to start your day. before I get outta bed, I try to find the gratitude of, oh my God, I love my pillow so much and I love the way my blankets feel and my sheets feel so [00:44:00] soft.

And I love that I have nest on my phone and I can turn the heat up before I get out of bed. So it's warm when I get out, like stupid stuff. But it just gets me in that good vibration, ooey mood of life is good. And then when contrast or when something frustrating hits, I can even get to the place after a few minutes of I'm grateful, this is what I get to be stressed about.

I so appreciate that. This is the worst part of my day. That's a great one. a practice to get there, but the sooner you can get there, the better If I go out on a bad date that it's really just bad because I'm over it and I'm not interested, but nothing bad has happened.

I'm out with a perfectly kind person. I felt cute leaving my house cuz I did my hair and makeup and I have a real bra on versus a sports bra and I feel cute and that's the worst part of it is that it didn't work out. Okay. I'm so grateful. That's the worst thing that I have to complain about today.

Yeah. And staying in that mindset is a really amazing practice. 

Karen: those are really good tips. 

Robyn: What would you say has been one of the most profound [00:45:00] experiences working with a client has been 

Lizzi: so far?

Yeah. Okay. So the one that is most recently coming up is, I was doing a, I call it an energy clearing, which is when I do all the work for you, I was doing this for a client and I started getting really emotional and started wanting to cry, and I said, I'm. Seeing you and your family sitting around a dining room table or some table and you're looking at note cards that were in a box and there's something about you guys cooking your ancestral food and talking about your ancestors and bringing their stories back to life as you cook and as you tell the stories and as you cook, the room is being filled with this white light, this bright white light as if the spirits are in the room.

I'm getting chills right now telling you the story. I said, does this make sense to you? And she said, yes. And then later in our session, Karen, as you were saying, like we go back and say does everything make sense? Was that all clear And I said, I'm sorry. I don't know why I'm so emotional right now.

This just feels really profound and something big is coming through. And she sat up and she said, [00:46:00] my grandmother passed away in May. . She was 95 years old and I recently had all my aunts and cousins over and we were all sitting around my dining room table going through my grandma's box of recipes that were on note cards and we were going through and we were laughing and we were telling stories about them and we were putting them together cuz we're making a book to send out to the whole family to share her recipes.

And it's in those moments that it's not only reassuring that I'm not insane , That these things make sense. But it I'm so appreciative and so grateful that the work that I get to do creates a ripple effect of impact, they will bring that amazing woman's spirit into every family holiday that they cook and.

It's not just gonna help this woman, it's gonna help her aunts and her cousins, and the great-grandchildren. And that feeling of knowing that I went from a good job as an executive assistant sitting in a pretty office opening mail and getting lunch to now, which I was grateful for the job, but felt pretty unfulfilling as far as my soul's [00:47:00] path to now being able to help people get into better alignment and feel really empowered and jump into their soul's purpose and their passion, and live truly an amazing life.

That to me is I don't get the Sunday scaries. I'm stoked to work on a Sunday because somebody's too busy during the week, I love what I get to do. I couldn't ask for anything more. When I 

Karen: just got outta that story, Too, Lizzi is that you're bridging the dimensions too.



Karen: client to client. I'm sure that grandmother was part of that session and was 

Robyn: so great. She was validating everything they were doing. 

Karen: Not that working with the client isn't enough in itself. It's very important, but the fact that you can, it's like you're part of that person's real life soul journey.

You're just helping connect those dots and. , you're orchestrating soul work and that's why it feels so 

Lizzi: fulfilling. Thank you. Yes. And I start most sessions by explaining that I am gonna serve as a conduit, and it really feels like [00:48:00] one of the first things that I usually see is energy flooding from the universe through the crown of my head, out through my arms and into my hands.

And even though I'm not in your physical space, I'm working on your physical body, but by not being in your physical space, I can jump into your ribcage and move that thing that's in your ribcage, And. that work is a conduit. Or someone once called me like an energetic cleaning lady like the dust bunnies out of the back of the closet.

And that it does, it feels to know that I'm creating impact for people in a way that gets them into alignment. Feels okay, yes, let's go. 

Karen: in just feeling you responding. It's like your higher self is 

Robyn: thanking you like way to go. 

Karen: You're doing what you came in to do and that's why it just feels 

Lizzi: so good.

And that's where we're all trying to get to. Exactly. And that's the piece that I think I'm trying to do for most people is that excitement for your day is what we're trying to get you to. And everybody has the potential to getting there. If you can get the old stories out of your way.

Robyn: And it's that alignment, you can [00:49:00] hear and feel the alignment that you have.

Lizzi: Thank you. And to be fair, and to be clear, I have my days too, There's nothing more annoying to me when healers or workers or whatever sort of claim to always have it together.

I have my moments, I have my days, and frankly, that's when I do edits on myself. That's when I do my own work and I am constantly doing my own work. 

Robyn: And I'm glad you said that because I was thinking that actually in what we were talking about. People who've listened to this podcast know Karen and I have, we've had a ton of different experiences.

We've done a ton of energy work, and yet we will always have work to do. And so I'm so glad that you are saying that as the. Practitioner as the conduit, as someone who has studied it, even, you have to continue to 

Lizzi: do the work. Yeah. And for me, the work is now becoming smiling and giggling when the frustration or when the contrast shows up.

So knowing oh, the resistance is showing up to show me where the next piece of work is and just get to work. Instead of it's never gonna end and it's [00:50:00] never That's right. That's right. , I get more into maybe it's not done because I'm not ready to go to the other side yet.

I'm not ready to move on yet. And the whole fun of being in the physical form. is being in the physical form and dealing with this stuff. Exactly. And that's, and we say that all 

Karen: the time. It's what we're here to do. The minute we're done, we don't need to necessarily be here anymore. It's what the ongoing journey is all about.

But it is hard. Going back to what you're teaching is you have that opportunity to catch yourself in that moment. Once you start to identify those triggers, that is the work right there. 

Lizzi: It's just putting that spotlight on it. Yeah. The hard thing that I find is that when people say to me, I don't have time, it's you don't have time to not do this.

No. If you're frustrated, if you feel stuck, if you feel like you're living beneath your potential, it's only gonna get worse until you pay attention. Something is trying to get your attention and it's gonna start with a nudge, and then it's gonna start with a little shove, and then it's gonna smack, and then you're gonna hit concrete.

So the thing isn't gonna go away by ignoring it and [00:51:00] powering through. You're gonna get less and less comfortable until you do something about it. Because we only, as humans, we only pay attention when we're uncomfortable to those kinds of things. So how far down that rabbit hole do you want to go?

And we're 

Robyn: not even talking about that much. We can all make that time. The commitment to working with you two hours, the first one an hour, second time, and as you go on two hours every few weeks it will change your life. And it's not that much time.

can sit and binge a Netflix series in the evening. 

Lizzi: We all have time. It's about choosing in. It's choosing it. Yes. Yeah. And the other thing I always say to people is, , if you're hearing this and you're intrigued, reach out. And if you're hearing this and you're not, no harm done, I full wholeheartedly believe that you're either drawn to it or you're not. And the right people show up at the right time to do the work that's gonna help both of us and really move for all of us. And on 

Robyn: that, for those that are drawn, please check out Lizzi That is L [00:52:00] I Z Z I C U T L E

You can see how you might work with her. You can even try those meditations we talked about, and you can also follow Lizzi on Instagram at Lizzi. 

Lizzi: Cut. . I will say just one thing and if there's any IT people out there, please email me. If you email me from my website, you've gotta also add me in your contact list because a lot of times my emails back get flagged and then they sit in your spam.

If anyone knows how to fix that little Diddy, let me know. 

Robyn: Or let us know if you can't get through to her , although you should be able to DM her on 

Lizzi: Instagram. Yes. Instagram is always easy. Thank 

Robyn: you so much, Lizzi. 

Lizzi: Thank guys. 

. And make sure you DM me or let me know if you have any ideas for job titles. . Yes, 

Robyn: that's right. Let her 

Lizzi: Get creative here. People. . Thank you for having me, you guys. Thanks for being so open-minded to what we're doing and supporting people like me. Love 

Robyn: it. It's an honor, honestly.

Taking the WooWoo Out of Wellness + Getting Your Life Back on Track