Seeking Center: The Podcast

Messages From Money: What It’s Trying to Tell You - Episode 71

July 17, 2023 Robyn Miller Brecker, Karen Loenser, Ellen Rogin Season 2 Episode 71
Messages From Money: What It’s Trying to Tell You - Episode 71
Seeking Center: The Podcast
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Seeking Center: The Podcast
Messages From Money: What It’s Trying to Tell You - Episode 71
Jul 17, 2023 Season 2 Episode 71
Robyn Miller Brecker, Karen Loenser, Ellen Rogin

Do you have a complicated relationship with money? If you answered, YES – well that makes you human. However, Money Expert, New York Times Bestselling Author, Keynote Speaker and Intuitive Guide Ellen Rogin says it doesn’t have to be that way.

There is an art to prosperity. When we understand how to work with money and break free from our unsupportive beliefs, money becomes a powerful energetic force that helps us realize our dreams and create abundance in the world around us.

By tuning into what your money wants you to know, you can create the life you’ve been waiting for. Ellen can help you listen. We had a reading with Ellen and we can tell you that she tapped right into what we most needed to hear when it came to money.

Ellen has made her life’s work educating, counseling, and guiding people from
looking at money stress to money confidence to create prosperity ON purpose.

On this week’s podcast, Ellen shares a new way of looking a money,
including how our thoughts and beliefs truly create our money reality. This is a BIG topic and one that impacts all of us. We’re talking about what may be causing your money anxiety and how to begin to break-free from it, plus the energy + magic of money –  and priming your mind for prosperity. It’s time to build the life you truly deserve!


  • Work with Ellen both personally or with your business at 
  • You can find her books, Picture Your Prosperity and Great with Money on her  – and you can even download a free copy of Great with Money at 
  • Ellen also has a new book coming out in September aptly named Messages from Money.

Visit for more from Robyn + Karen, plus mega inspo -- and the best wellness + spiritual practitioners, products and experiences on the planet!

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter

Show Notes Transcript

Do you have a complicated relationship with money? If you answered, YES – well that makes you human. However, Money Expert, New York Times Bestselling Author, Keynote Speaker and Intuitive Guide Ellen Rogin says it doesn’t have to be that way.

There is an art to prosperity. When we understand how to work with money and break free from our unsupportive beliefs, money becomes a powerful energetic force that helps us realize our dreams and create abundance in the world around us.

By tuning into what your money wants you to know, you can create the life you’ve been waiting for. Ellen can help you listen. We had a reading with Ellen and we can tell you that she tapped right into what we most needed to hear when it came to money.

Ellen has made her life’s work educating, counseling, and guiding people from
looking at money stress to money confidence to create prosperity ON purpose.

On this week’s podcast, Ellen shares a new way of looking a money,
including how our thoughts and beliefs truly create our money reality. This is a BIG topic and one that impacts all of us. We’re talking about what may be causing your money anxiety and how to begin to break-free from it, plus the energy + magic of money –  and priming your mind for prosperity. It’s time to build the life you truly deserve!


  • Work with Ellen both personally or with your business at 
  • You can find her books, Picture Your Prosperity and Great with Money on her  – and you can even download a free copy of Great with Money at 
  • Ellen also has a new book coming out in September aptly named Messages from Money.

Visit for more from Robyn + Karen, plus mega inspo -- and the best wellness + spiritual practitioners, products and experiences on the planet!

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter


Robyn: [00:00:00] I'm Robyn Miller Brecker, 

Karen: and I'm Karen Loenser. Welcome to seeking center. The podcast,

Robyn: join us each week as we have the conversations and weed through the spiritual and holistic clutter for you, we'll boil it down to what you need to know. Now 

Karen: we're all about total wellness, which to us needs building a healthy life on a physical, mental, and spiritual level.

We'll talk to the trailblazers who will introduce you to the practices, products, and experiences. That may be just what you need to hear about to transform your life. 

If you're listening to this, it's no accident. Think of this as your seeking center and your place to seek your center. And for even more mega inspo sign up for seeking center.

The newsletter at seeking center 

Robyn: Do 

you have a complicated relationship with money? If you answered yes, that makes you human. However, money expert New York Times bestselling author, keynote speaker, and intuitive guide, Ellen Rogin says, it doesn't have to be that way. There is an art to prosperity. When we [00:01:00] understand how to work with money and break free from our unsupportive beliefs, money becomes a powerful, energetic force that helps us realize our dreams and create abundance in the world around us.

By tuning into what money wants you to know you can create the life you've been waiting for. Ellen can help you listen. We had a reading with Ellen and we can tell you that she tapped right into what we most needed to hear when it came to money. Ellen has made her life's work educating, counseling, and guiding people from looking at money, stress to money, confidence to create prosperity on purpose.

She talks about a new way of looking at money beyond the traditional financial literacy conversation. Financial Belief management, one that expands to include how your thoughts and beliefs truly create your money reality, and how generosity can actually bring you more of what you desire.

She's as comfortable talking about the power of compound interest as she is in the power of beliefs. This is a big topic and one that impacts [00:02:00] all of us. We're going to talk about what may be causing your money anxiety, and how to break, and how to begin to break free from it. Plus the energy and magic of money and priming your mind for prosperity.

It's time to build the life you truly deserve. Hi, Ellen. 

Ellen: Hi. I'm so excited to be here with you today. Thank you. 

Karen: Oh, we're 

thrilled to have you here. This is such a juicy subject for us. 

So let's 

start at the very beginning. 

Why do you think that money is such a complicated 

issue for us?

Ellen: We are born actually getting money lessons. And these come into our beliefs. So what we saw, what we heard growing up forms how we are as adults around our money. And we're most of the time not very conscious of this.

And so it can also be impacted by all the things we hear in the media, what our experiences have been, if you've been through some financial trauma, all this makes things feel. Complicated when it comes to our relationships with money. You 

Robyn: started out [00:03:00] really strictly in that financial and investment sector, right?

And you started to realize and see patterns with the worrying, And that there were people who felt embarrassed and shameful. What did you make of that? And then how did that now turn into part of how you 

counsel people? 

Ellen: It was fascinating to me when I started as a financial advisor, how people thought about money and their decision making process and it didn't have anything to do with how much money they had.

So someone could have lots of money and really be on track for their financial plan and be freaked out and so worried they were gonna lose it all. And other people with more modest means had really good habits and They just had a better attitude where they felt more comfortable about what was happening with their money, and I really love that exploration.


Robyn: in exploring that and because money anxiety doesn't feel so great. And can become a problem just [00:04:00] like any other fear many of us can have. How do you feel that impacts relationships, decision making and so forth? Because it's such a central part of our every 

Ellen: day. People feel like they have to worry about money there are money worries and.

If you even turn on the financial news, it really stirs things up in this fear of not knowing enough, not making a good decision, not having enough as, as much as your neighbor or someone else at work, not making enough money. And the problem with this money anxiety is that it. Causes really bad decision making.

There was a book called Scarcity that was written and the researchers looked at what happens when people's backs are really up against the wall and have very high money anxiety. Your IQ actually drops when you're freaked out about money, so you can't make a good decision. And in my intuitive work with money, I hear all the time from money Please stop worrying. Many of the people I do consultations with have a lot of [00:05:00] fear around it, and it's like having the parking brake on and trying to drive it doesn't make things better. I think somehow as humans we think if I worry about it, maybe it'll make it better, and I suppose to some.

Degree, having some worry might have someone be a better saver or a more conscientious spender, but you can do those things without the worry as well. I love how, 

Karen: and I'm sure people who are listening just caught how you give money. Personality, you actually bring money to sit at the table. Can you talk about that, Ellen and how you look at money as this energetic entity versus rather just this tangible monetary currency that we use every day?


Robyn: because I think that's gonna be really new and different for most people 

Ellen: listening. So for many years I was in entrenched in the science of money, the asset allocation. I have, a lot of credentials after my name. I was an economics major in college, and throughout that I realized that when you combine the science of money with the art of prosperity, which is [00:06:00] about how we think and feel and our creative parts about money, that's where the magic happens and this energy of money I find it really helpful to look at money as another entity you have a relationship with.

I actually do have a relationship with money. I talk to money. It talks back. If that doesn't land it could be just a really helpful metaphor for people. So if you think about any other personal relationship you have, if you think about how you are in that relationship, are you good partner, just a good friend?

 Do you just wanna use the person that is in the relationship with you? If you make a similar analogy to your relationship with money, I think it's really helpful. how good of a partner are you with your money? Do you just look at what it can do for you? Are you just looking for a hookup with your money?

Are you willing to give something back? That's how money 

Karen: really started, didn't it? It really started as an energy exchange between people for doing things. Can you give us an example? how you have a conversation with money, 

Ellen: So my. process in having conversations with [00:07:00] money is most often through journaling. So I'll ask a question and answers just come out, and I've learned over the last, say, four or five years to totally trust those because what I found is for me, they're very helpful and for the people that I am talking to, money on their behalf.

What I hear over and over is, oh, that message was right on. That's so helpful. And sometimes they're very tactical messages like, have you done your estate plan? More often than not, it's things like, I really feel like you don't trust me. Why is that? Could we have a better relationship if you just trusted that I'd be there for you?

And always these messages are affirming and helpful for people. I have never had a message that came back that said you are destined to a life of poverty. That is not what comes back. Money is a really good energetic force for the people at least that I work with. We know that some people make deal with money in less than excellent ways.

And money can totally be a force for good in the world. And I [00:08:00] think 

Robyn: just the way you described that for who have listened to our podcast for a while now, it seems to me it's setting that intention to communicate with money specifically. So whether that is through journaling, which we've talked about on here, which is automatic writing to a degree or just even communicating in your mind's eye and feeling, seeing, hearing what comes through, setting that intention for money to communicate with money that can be a life-changing relationship. 

Ellen: To start for sure, and a great question to ask, whether you ask it in your mind, if you ask it out loud in meditation through journaling, is money.

What do you want me to know? Can be that simple. And when I do workshops and people answer that question, it's always something that makes them feel really good and supported. You're gonna be okay. I'm here for you. I've got your back. Those are the types of things that come that come to play. And. When you ask money a question and if you're in [00:09:00] business for yourself, it can also be things like, who should I be in touch with today?

And then honoring that and picking up the phone or sending them an email. Once during Covid, I did this and I was thinking, who should I be in touch with? And it was someone who had hired me for a speaking engagement and I was just checking in. And it doesn't always happen this way, but so quickly, he's oh, we wanna bring you back into speak.

We'll do a virtual thing w And it was so fast I didn't know how to answer. I was caught. So off guard doesn't always work that way, but I've never reached out to somebody where there wasn't at least a nice connection. And often it's turned into some other wonderful opportunity for somebody.

In your Ted 

Robyn: talk 

Karen: you talk a lot about how our relationship with money starts when we're really young, And that little. Beliefs get planted by our parents and our parents' relationship with money. You talked a lot about your mom and your dad's relationship with money and that how your dad's job was to go make money and that when you went to go get your own job, that was confusing cuz it was like, oh, is this really my job to make the [00:10:00] money?

And I think we all have those deep, subconscious belief systems in us and that we don't even realize that how do you help people? Go back and really identify those and try to resolve those so that they can readjust their relationship with 

Ellen: their money beliefs. It is often transparent to us like we don't even know the operating system that we're operating in cuz it just playing back there.

And it wasn't until I started to look at my own money upbringing that I realized I had that belief like, oh, it's my husband's job to make money and further. I probably can't even do it, which made absolutely no sense. I had an M mba, A C P A, a certified financial planner. I had all these degrees. I was running my own business.

Yet that was playing in the background. So sometimes just bringing a thought that you realize you're carrying around with you to the forefront can be as easy as clearing it away. Cuz I'd be like that's just stupid. That doesn't even make any sense. Just cuz we believe it doesn't mean it's true. So one way to start exploring this is to look at what is your first [00:11:00] money memory.

What was money like in your house? Did you see your parents arguing about money? Was it not talked about at all? Did you think you had a lot and you didn't? Or you didn't think you had any? And it turns out you had a lot of money in your family. All these things come into play, and it's certainly not to blame your parents.

I remember in a workshop I had people looking at their money upbringing and there was a mom and her two daughters on each side of her, and one daughter said, my mom never worried about money and I don't either now, and I just spend, and the other sister said, my mother never thought about money and it was a problem.

And all I do now is save. So this is not to blame mom and dad, it's to just notice we interpret things through our filter. That 

Robyn: is so key. Honestly, 

Ellen: I can't wait to do that exercise. And it's really great to do with your partner if you're in a relationship with someone to really understand what their money upbringing is.

Absolutely. It's easy to go, I'm right. You're wrong. Not necessarily good for a relationship, but when you understand where someone else is coming from, it gives a [00:12:00] whole nother perspective about their decision making, how they deal with things. It's very helpful. And I love 

Karen: how you've been able to introduce money as this.

Almost spirit, spiritual, energetic part of our lives versus just this thing that we have to, like all those conventions about I have to have money, I have to pay the bills. all of those things that build this fear mantra really around us. And how do you take money from being fear to friend, 

Ellen: Oh, I love that. From fear to friend. One really great way to do that is to do good things with your money. So spending on things you value. Most of the time people have no awareness at all where they're spending their money.

And I'm not talking about budgeting cuz you could be someone who's a really good saver and still not be conscious or be spending money on things that you truly don't value. And. That is one way to start is to look ? Does the way I spend my money reflect what I value in life?

Another way to do it is to be generous with your money. You can make a really big difference with a small amount of money. I was doing a consultation [00:13:00] for a woman this week and she shared a story. About how she was driving in her car and someone came up and asked for money and she normally, it's not her habit to give to people that way, but she just felt called to, this man was there with his child and a stroller and she had just been at the bank.

She handed the guy a hundred dollars bill and he was in tears. He was so moved. He pulled his baby out of the stroller and showed her and said, He spoke broken English. He was a Spanish speaker and he was thanking her and she was crying and he was crying. And then when she told me the story, I was crying because we can make such a big difference in ways that are unbelievable for people.

And the other interesting thing about giving is when people share stories like that with me, I'm touched and motivated to give more. So there's this echo that can happen by witnessing people doing kind acts, and I get so jazzed by thinking, what if everybody was doing that with their money? What kind of beautiful world would we live in if we were [00:14:00] all being inspired by other people about how they were using their money as a force for good?


Robyn: you've actually put that really into practice in your life. can you talk about that in general, 

Ellen: I can talk about it. let me start with explaining how I started. Yes. A practice of generosity cuz my parents didn't bring us up.

Not to be generous, but it wasn't something that we talked about growing up. And when I wrote my first book with Money, we talked about generosity and my co-author Melissa Burke, is like when you put aside a certain amount of money, it as a percentage to be given away that generates more prosperity.

And I should probably do that if I'm writing about it in my book. So my husband Steven, and I started to take 10% of our income and we put it in a separate account for giving. And it was just a money market account, not a fancy tax advantaged account at the time. And what we found happened was that we were so much more generous than we'd been in the past.

If people had were doing like a breast cancer walk, and I would write a bigger check at the time I [00:15:00] was writing checks or if it was a charity that was important to us, we knew how much we had to give. One of the things we did when our kids were probably, we started when Amy was in sixth grade and Benji was in eighth grade.

We started doing volunteer vacations with our family and so on the second trip we went on, we went to Ghana and went West Africa and it was a beautiful trip. Our kids made friends there and it was such a great example of how. Money certainly doesn't make you happy, and people without money could be extremely happy, but also made us more grateful for what we do have that we could take for granted.

And since then we've been back many times and we got involved in a scholarship fund there. When we're able to do things like that, It's a great way for us also to not only help other people, but why we do it is cuz it feels so good. Yeah. It's really the dirty little secret about generosity. We do it cuz it makes us feel good.

Yes. We like morally think we should. Yeah. And it feels really [00:16:00] good to do it. . And I 

Robyn: would assume it's motivating for you to. Bring in potentially more money so that you can 

Ellen: give more away. Cause feels so good. a hundred percent. And what I found, Robyn, is that when I that have someone else benefiting besides me, they happen much more quickly.

Oh. That is Good insight. And I've also found, all those years I was a financial advisor and in the financial services industry is totally standard to be setting goals based on revenues and assets under management and number of new clients. And the first probably 10 years of my business, that's how I set goals cuz that's how everybody did and I never hit my business goals.

So one thing I realized is I had an unhelpful belief. I never hit my business goals, and that's what was showing up. But the other thing was I realized that was not motivating, and for most people I work with, the money is a benchmark to know if you're on your track for your goals, but it's not the motivating thing, it's what the money will do for you or [00:17:00] who else will be served by you hitting your goal.

Robyn: Can we go back for a 

Karen: second? I just wanna dig into this a little bit more about your relationship with money, the spirit, the energy, and how that feels because I would love to have that myself. I would love to be able to be at that place where I felt that comfort level of being able to call on money.

when you have this relationship, I'm putting in air quotes with money What does money want us to know about? The reason it exists for us like is money actually serving a higher level purpose for us 

Ellen: in some way? What I hear over and over from money is Money doesn't want us to worry, money wants to be used for a force for good.

Money loves when people are generous and that generous can look different for so many different people. Maybe generous is investing in a business that's serving many people. Maybe generous is helping a family member or people with less. And that's part of it. And money wants us to know you're gonna be okay.

And I think especially people that live in the western world or in more [00:18:00] affluent parts of the world, We are gonna be okay. And we don't always realize that, okay, might look different than your neighbor's, okay? But you, we all know if we quiet down that money doesn't necessarily mean that someone's gonna be happier or not happier, You could make the judgment, oh, those rich people, those really wealthy people are miserable and their kids are messed up and they're selfish. There's those beliefs which aren't any more true than. I need to have this fancy car or this big house to make me happy. Cuz we know that when people have had that, yes it can be lovely and if that's something you really value, beautiful.

I'm not saying that, but it's not necessarily the thing that is going to make you happy. 

Robyn: That is so true. So then you have sessions that you call messages from money. And that's one of your offerings. What is that? Can you talk about that? How does that actually 

Ellen: work?

When I have a session with someone, I get some information from them ahead of time, so I know who I'm talking to, and one of the questions I ask is, what would you wanna know from money? What's up for you? So that I can be really focused [00:19:00] on that. And ahead of the meetings I spend a fair amount of time.

Talking with money on their behalf. And the way I talk about money is I journal and what comes out are what messages that money wants to share with the people that I'm meeting with. And then during the sessions we go through those notes. And often the transformation, the ahas, the ideas happen in our conversation in between.

And I think that's a combination of. Ideas that are flowing through me. And also the fact that I've been a business owner for many years and I have a financial background. And my experience is that sometimes right at the end of the meeting, people will be like, I feel so much better. And sometimes I'll hear.

From people a couple weeks later, things have shifted. I just got an email this week from someone who, it was probably a year and a half ago that I did a session for her, and she's constantly telling me all the cool stuff that's happening in her life. I just got my student loan forgiven. I went on this trip.

I never thought I could go on. I was able to quit my job and focus on [00:20:00] my business more. That's really rewarding and fun. And I think there's something that happens that just clears away some of the blocks that we all have that can keep us limited in terms of how we are with our money, our financial lives, our businesses, whatever it is for somebody.

Are you 

Robyn: able to, in those sessions, help somebody who may not believe their intuitive ability as much as they probably should, are you able to help them look back to what we talked about before? what is their first memory and help them even look at their own beliefs in that way?

Ellen: If that is what is gonna be helpful, that will be what comes through in the message. So I've had people I've had messages come through that say that some of the blocks they have aren't even theirs. Their ancestral like their grandparents. They're great grandparents. Sometimes it's more maybe, I remember someone who I was like, oh, there's a mother, grandmother figure who really thought your job was [00:21:00] not to be in business.

It was to be a mom or to be stay at home. So it would really varies. It's fascinating to me Sometimes the meditation will come through with, for somebody that is helps clear things away. Then I did a session for someone I know who's an amazing thought leader and he was not really his thing. He's I've never done anything intuitive before, but I'm curious about this.

And we did his session and he said to me, Ellen, did you dial down the woo on this? Because this felt really like a normal conversation. And I was , not knowing what to expect and. I wasn't even conscious of it and I said no. I think what came through was what was a message you could hear, and that was gonna be helpful for you, and it's different for different people.

Ellen, is it 

Karen: helpful to. Offer people suggestions around letting go of expectation of money or letting go of the control that they feel that money has in their life. How do you share some 

Ellen: direction there?

What came up for me, [00:22:00] Karen, when you said that, is if this was a relationship And you are partners with money and you were controlling them, how would that work? If you're grasping, if you're like that partner that's watching every single thing, trying to read the text of your person you're in relationship with cuz you're so distrusting or you're scared they're gonna leave you Even just looking at it that way is a very helpful thing.

Noticing the language that we use. I have gotten very good at hearing the way people talk about money, even if they think they're super positive. Or, I did a session for someone and , I think six times during it said, oh, they're so cheap. They're so cheap. And I brought it to her attention and I said, sometimes people just choose different things they value to spend money on.

And she had a real judgment around how other people were with money and I don't think it was serving her. And so she started to go, oh yeah and I think in some ways she was feeling judged about the way people maybe thought about how she spent money. it's all fascinating. 

Robyn: let 

Karen: go. Let go a 

Robyn: little bit.

Ellen: And what I'd like to say about letting go a little bit [00:23:00] more is when I was an advisor and in the depths of the recession, what I saw happening was where people were hanging on so tightly to what they had. So if you imagine your, fist clenched and you're like, I'm not gonna be okay.

I'm not gonna be okay. I'm grasping for what I have, you can't possibly receive with your fist clothes. And then there's other people who are always like giving, giving. Cuz at some level they don't feel like it's okay to keep their own money and then things just slide off them. That's not necessarily good either.

They're both important, We don't always wanna have our palms open and not have anything for ourselves. Then we're gonna be dependent on people down the road and this grasping energy. You can just feel how tight it feels, right? Like viscerally. It might be helpful to have a conversation on this idea of scarcity versus abundance.

Robyn: what is scarcity thinking versus abundance thinking?

Ellen: I think those are terms people hear a lot. A general explanation of those and then maybe another way to think about them that might be helpful. Scarcity thoughts are fear-based. They're [00:24:00] aggressive. Competition. For me to win, you have to lose. There's only so much to go around. It can show up in envy.

Something awesome happens to a friend of their yours, and instead of being like, yay, I'm so excited for you, and a standing ovation for them, you're secretly either they shouldn't have gotten that. Or Why wasn't it me? Why is it them and not me? And then you beat yourself up for not getting where you think you should be.

That's scarcity thinking. Abundance thinking is there's more than enough to grow around. It's collaboration, it's generosity, it's optimism. That's where that lives. A helpful metaphor I found is going with or against the current, so about five years ago, my husband Steven did an Iron Man competition and an Ironman if you're not familiar with it, it's like a triathlon on steroids.

So they swim two point something miles and bike. I think it's 112 or 120, and then they run a marathon. So Steven did his in Louisville and he is a good swimmer, but he did great for his age [00:25:00] group in the swim. And part of it was that they were swimming in the Ohio River and they were swimming with the current.

So abundance thinking is like going with the current and scarcity thinking is going against the current. It's just so much harder. We can all think of examples of people who have a lot of money, make a lot of money, but maybe aren't happy or they're jerks. Like you don't even wanna deal with them.

That would be going against the current. So it doesn't mean you can't make money when you're going a current, but it sucks. Like why would you want to? And going with the current is when things flow, when synchronicity happens. I feel like that was how I met you two. I loved your podcast. I searched you out and I couldn't find an email and then I'm on your website and Lizzi Cutler's there.

I was like, how do they know Lizzi Cutler? I know Lizzi. She's a great healer. And then I found out after a couple weeks of corresponding that Robyn lives two blocks away from me. I thought you lived in California. 

Robyn: And the day that we talked, I had literally just walked by Ellen's house, had no 

Ellen: idea.

That is going with the current, yes. That's a perfect example . 

Robyn: Talking [00:26:00] about your New York Times bestselling book, picture Your Prosperity, you talk about certain ways that people can start to make their vision a reality. Can you share one of those ways that someone can start to have a prosperity 

Ellen: mindset?

One of my favorite ways for people to have a prosperity mindset is to create a prosperity picture. So you very well may be familiar with a vision board, and this is like that, but different. It puts some structure around it that helps you in effect create a visual financial plan. So if you can imagine a frame with a four quadrants, four boxes on it, and on the bottom are for images or goals that you wanna have that don't require any money.

And on the top it's for goals and visions that would require some money. And on the left side, things you want sooner, five years or less. And on the right side, things you would wanna have happen later. So for example, in your upper right hand quadrant, which is more money later, for a long time, I had a picture of an airplane there cuz I thought wouldn't it be cool to [00:27:00] spend a year traveling around the world?

And that was when I had my business and I couldn't really imagine leaving for a year, my financial advisory business. And now that image has moved over and down a bit because now I speak around the world and I was like, oh, someone might be able to pay me to speak and I get to travel around the world.

Something like an image of someone meditating might be in the lower left hand quadrant. You wanna do it now? It doesn't really cost any money. So when you have that prosperity picture, then you can look at what you really desire and use that to form your financial plan. What I found is when you go through that more creative process, often goals come out that you didn't even know were important to you, and then you can communicate that if you're working with a financial advisor or you do your own planning, you can start to think about things that are really meaningful for you in addition.

To what the typical financial advisor would say. Like, when do you wanna retire? Where do you wanna send your kids to college? And not that those might not be on your prosperity picture. It's what are you gonna do after you retire? Why do you want that? Do you ever even [00:28:00] wanna retire? I found that is a really helpful tool.

One of the 

Karen: things that came up when you were talking through all this is how does worthiness fit into your relationship with money? I feel as. We're thinking about asking our boss for a raise or we're making our vision board up thinking, oh yeah, but that's too much. I don't really deserve that.

Or that's too much for me. how do you counsel people on that relationship of their own worth to 

Ellen: money? I went back to that personal relationship thing. It would be, feels very analogous to, I'm not worthy of love. Or I'm not worthy. And granted someone may feel very worthy of love and still have an awkward conversation.

I'm not saying it's always easy for me to have that money conversation. It's interesting to go like, why is that weird? why is that weird for us to have that? and yet if you don't, then you continue that cycle of not getting paid what you're worth. Really not being, you're creating that reality for yourself by not getting the money that you're worth or charging enough.

Sometimes what comes out in consultations is I realize people aren't [00:29:00] charging enough and they have a false belief that they think they're serving people by not charging them more. Oh, they can't afford this. And I've had several people where we talked about well, no often people value what you do more when you charge more and I had a woman who I hadn't talked to about a till, about a year and a half, two years after we did her consultation. She was a health coach and I had no idea what had changed in her business till I talked to her again and she said, oh, Ellen, I'm charging five times as much now cuz my work is so valuable.

They are so much healthier and they're so much more committed to their own health. When they pay me more, we're all winning. That makes sense, right? If she was just giving it away. Cuz she's oh, they need this so bad. They're not as committed to doing what they wanted to do. 

Karen: Yeah. So it's like you almost step in, so your relationship with money is more solid when you can say, we can work together.

We're here to help and benefit each other. Versus putting that worthiness and that measurement factor of feeling like you have to equate what you 

Robyn: do 

Ellen: with money. For sure to feel worthy. So that's great [00:30:00] advice. One of the things that comes out when I do sessions for people are money mantras and I'll ask money.

So do you have a money mantra for so and and someone I did a session for Who's Out of Australia. That money mantra that came back was Money is my Partner for Good. And I love the double meaning on that. Money's my partner for good, like always hearing money. My partner for doing good and I was like, oh, I love that. And so money is our partner for good. 

Robyn: I think this is just like a life-changing conversation.. How did these conversations with money begin for you?

Ellen: Had an experience that was woke me up from my kind of more traditional background. I would say a seeker really open to things, but I didn't believe I necessarily had any intuitive abilities more than.

just having a hunch about something. I was at a workshop and we were doing an exercise on intuition. We were paired with a partner and the different partners. You had a different theme. So this one part of this exercise, I was paired with a man named James, and the theme was money. The way the activity worked was that I Stood behind him with my hands on his shoulders, and he was to think about something that was [00:31:00] going on with him with money. And when he turned around, I was to deliver a message. So James turns around and out of my mouth comes Fuck you for thinking that you can't have me in your life and still be spiritual.

And I was like, and he said, Ellen, oh my God. And he pulls out from his shirt, he goes, one of my clients gave me, this is the patron saint of poverty. He took it off. and I stood next to him and held his hand and started walking with him. I said, now I wanna be with you. And when it was over, I'm like, what just happened?

I like to swear, but not at somebody and not somebody I don't know. And I think it was so extreme to wake both of us up because those were not my words coming outta my mouth. There was no way that would've ever come out of Ellen and Rogin's mouth. And afterwards I spoke to the facilitator, Gary Stewart, and he said, oh, that was just your intuition.

You were channeling something that came through. And I started to play with these and trying to see, oh, do I do have the ability to tap into what's going on with someone with their money? And looking back as an advisor, I would constantly have clients tell me, I feel so much better. [00:32:00] And at some level, I'm sure I was tapping into what they needed to know, but I didn't know I was doing that.

And so after that experience, I just played with it more and more with friends and then started experimenting with people I didn't know. And that led to the process I have now where I journal with money. How long ago was that? I think it was 2017 And I didn't really until I was committed to leaving my financial advisory practice.

And one thing that I realized probably helped spur this, and I haven't really shared this before, but that summer I went to the Amazon on a women's trip with Lynn Twist, who wrote this amazing book called The Soul of Money. She's a beautiful person. And we did a plant medicine ceremony and I think that really opened a portal for some of this to come through.

Wow. And besides that, I brought my daughter and won coolest mom award cuz Amy did a plant medicine ceremony. That is, I 

Robyn: would be up there, I would say that's pretty cool. 

Karen: [00:33:00] So now Ellen so this is the service that you're offering full-time to people. So if people wanna work with you, I know you ask, some questions ahead of time, but then you literally do this practice and really invite them to listen and lean into their own beliefs about money.

Is this like a one and done kind of thing, or is this something that they can do on an ongoing basis 

Ellen: with you? the answer's yes. When I first started, I was like, oh, people do it every, year or something. And I started to follow up with people and often people go, I'm good. I don't worry about money anymore.

Wow. It's okay. That's actually really a good thing. I have some people that come back cuz things are up for them or they want me to do some consultations on their business. I'm working with a group who's forming a business now and I'm working with all the partners to clean their kind of money shit away before they start their business.

And then we'll do some readings on the business actually, which is a fun thing to be doing. So most of the time it's actually feels really good to have it be, I'm good for now versus they feel like they have to come back every week. I do lead courses and [00:34:00] things that people might wanna come back to grow their own intuitive skills or intuitive business skills cuz I think that's really helpful.

I think often some of the spiritual information isn't made practical enough for people. So I like to think of bringing the Woo to work and making it work. 

Robyn: I love that. Okay. I think that's a whole course that we need to help support you too. 

Ellen: Yes. 

Robyn: So what has applying these principles done to your own 

Ellen: financial prosperity?

When I think about when I started this, I'm gonna go back to when I shifted from being just doing okay in my financial advisory practice to doing much, much better and having a thriving practice. And I remember it was a January cold, Chicago gray day and I was on the phone with my business coach in tears, and I'm not really a crier.

And I said, Phyllis, I'm so upset. I was pissed off at my husband cuz he made what felt like at the time a unilateral decision to leave his job. I had changed my business model and some of my income went down. We had two little kids and we were [00:35:00] running up some credit card debt cuz we had real estate that was vacant.

And I thought, how can I be a financial advisor and have credit card debt? I am mortified. If anyone knew this, I had never had debt before in my life. And I'm going on and on. And Phyllis listened. And then through the most gentle way possible, gave me a slap across the face through the phone and said, Ellen, I've known you a long time and it really sounds like you're coming from a place of scarcity versus abundance.

Cuz I'd been talking about these ideas for years and I'm like, you're right. And in that moment, I made a decision to do whatever it took to get us into a different financial situation. Of course, within ethics, And switched my viewpoint. I also switched from focusing on how I needed the money to how can I serve?

It was around the time of a recession. People were freaked out about money, and they needed me more than ever. And in a down market, my business grew 39% and that set me up for a decade and a half of really having a thriving practice. And now I just lean into it and just journal with money if I have questions [00:36:00] or, and whenever I get stuck thinking oh, that speaking gig didn't come through or something, and feeling a little scarcity focused, I really try to switch and sit on the other side of the table and go, who needs me now?

Who needs me now? How can I serve? How can I be of help? How can I put a video out there that might tweak something for someone else? And it always brings in new business for me when I do that. That was, I was 

Robyn: just gonna ask you, because before we started taping today, you brought up this idea of, when we were talking about money, anxiety, and one of the ways to combat that, you talked about how people sometimes have that, Ugh.

Can you talk about that for one sec? 

Ellen: Yeah, it's easy to feel discouraged or scared about money, whether that's in your own business or something that's going on in your financial life, and one of the best cures for that is to switch and ask, how can I be of service who needs me?

Now, one of the things I really believe strongly is that generosity precedes prosperity. And that I get a little cringy when [00:37:00] people talk about giving back. I'm like, give forward. It doesn't have to be a hundred million you to be a huge philanthropist. Cool. If you can, it can be $5 to somebody a charity.

Charities survive on small contributions. Yes, they want big donations, but the small ones make a big difference as well. I'm just thinking about 

Karen: emotional prosperity as you're talking. that's what it gives you. It's in the giving of the money that you're emotionally full, you're emotionally lighter and brighter, and you're living a more authentic self as a result of doing that.

And that's probably what the joy of 

Ellen: the giving comes from. And though, first of all, the word prosperity is defined as the condition of success and thriving. Often in money. So I love that. That's why I love that word so much. And there's been studies that have found that when you're financially generous, that it changes something in your brain.

It's called subjective wealth, and that giving $500 gives you the same buzz is getting a $10,000 raise. You interpret it as saying, I must be wealthy if I'm [00:38:00] able to give that money. So you're tricking yourself into believing you're wealthy, and I think that's a very virtuous cycle to be able to do that for ourselves.

Just think about if you're in business trying to get a sale and you have the energy of oh man, I really need this sale. If I don't get this, I'm in trouble, versus. I so wanna help you people. Like I have something so valuable to offer to you. Like you can tell how no one wants to be sold to, but if you have something you genuinely believe in, that's a whole different, that's a whole different deal.

It's so 

Robyn: true. And the energy that comes from you can feel, the three of us, we're constantly dealing with energy on different levels, right? For Karen and I thinking about money as energy is newer for us, It really is. However, just talking. About what you just said? When someone comes to the table and they're, you can feel the desperation versus, oh my goodness.

And so that can go for you too, when you are going to, I'm thinking of Karen and I as we're fundraising for our bigger vision. It's all in the perspective of how we approach things. [00:39:00] Cuz we do believe we're going to be of service, and As you put that out in the world, you're gonna attract the, right energy right back.

And for those who can't see that's okay. then they're not on that same frequency. 

Karen: And one of the things that we've done too is the literally visualize money as. person sitting at the table with us and giving her, a fiery but loving kind of presence in all of the decisions that we're making.

So rather than it being this tangible currency like we talked about before it's an energy, it's a supporter. it's another member of the team really that's there to 

Ellen: help us. Oh, I so love that and I love that you gave her a persona of what, that's beautiful. I love that. And hopefully this 

Robyn: is sparking others listening right now to number one, most likely reach out to you by your 

Karen: book, all of that, but 

Robyn: also really, I would say and also really start to change this whole mindset.

think from a prosperity mindset and think about money. Think about [00:40:00] having this relationship like a real relationship with money. There's so much in what has come up today that I really can't wait to put into action because it even changes. Even though Karen and I already had started to think about money in this different way.

There's a lot that came up today. That can even make that relationship stronger, more beautiful, more service oriented, more positive. I'm 

Karen: more alive. Really. More alive, yes. Interactive. it's not just a thing that exists or a relation, a thing that is in terms of I either have money or I don't, or I need money, or I don't.

It really makes it an energy that can live and breathe and exist and be questioned and conversational. it just gives you so much more power over the 

Ellen: relationship. And I know from a conversation we had before, you two are very tuned into this. and from a story you told me have been very tuned into if someone else's energy matches that and if it doesn't, it's not a good fit.

Yeah. And that is so important because that's where, when we [00:41:00] don't listen to that's when problems happen. And it can be easy if someone's coming in with a lot of money. To ignore that. It's like that, if you date men and you think, oh, that guy's so cute. I don't care if he's an asshole, because he's so good looking.

I'm sure he's nice. you make up, this whole story would be like that. So you were ready. Have such a good filter around attracting the right type of people to the work that you're doing. Thank 


Robyn: I have the chills actually, when you say that because it's such a great analogy and Karen and I have been in, Several situations with people with a lot of money and power, but that energy did not feel right.

And you do sit there for a, there's most of the time in those situations because energy feels so off. It's very easy to say this isn't gonna work, no matter what you're gonna give us. It just doesn't matter. There's other times it's a little less, but you have to trust the instinct.

That instinct and that intuition, because to your point in the long run, that won't be, that isn't really the way things are in this, in our case, supposed to be birthed 

Ellen: into this world. [00:42:00] Yeah. It's leaning 

Karen: into the idea that money is there to help you 

Robyn: to amplify money is for good. I lo that's easy and for everyone listening too, Ellen number one, the reading we did with Ellen is something that we refer back to now all the time.

And , it is extremely positive. So to your point, Ellen, it's not like anything horrible came up, that was upsetting. It was really validating and reassuring and motivating and that mantra that you gave us is something that we incorporate into our everyday now. And so we know that's part of.

Creating our whole living network that's gonna be, coming out in the near future. 

Ellen: Thank you. My pleasure. I did have someone once say, oh, I was so scared you were gonna tell me something bad. And it has never happened. The worst, I want people to be scared that I'm gonna say, fuck you.

I don't wanna be like that. All the time. Has never, ever happened again. And I think it only happened for me and James to wake us both up. But it was surprising to me that this person said that because it's always positive and affirming. It might be redirecting a little bit if that's [00:43:00] helpful, but yeah.

I'm glad you, I'm glad you said that and I'm thrilled that it was helpful. In the mantra is something The thing I hear almost every time is, oh, I love that when I get to the mantra bar cuz it just speaks to whoever I'm Yes it does. Meeting with 

Robyn: it does. And we're so intentional in everything we do.

We've just, that's part of our practice. And so it helps set that intention on a daily basis and listen money. And that money, energy is important. it is part of our world. And so having that positive relationship, just like you work on your marriage or partnership or relationship with your children, it's the same thing.

Ellen: It really is. I love that you said that it's important because I think it can be easy, especially for some people to say, I don't even care about it. It's not important. And so it depends, it doesn't mean as long as you're being deliberate. It is. We live in a material world. We also live in an ethereal world, but we live in a material world and money flows through everything that we do.

Pretty much everything. Our relationships [00:44:00] our healthcare in the us. There's like a lot of things that money is super helpful for. I caution people that are like, oh, I don't even care about it. I don't need it. It's not important. Yeah. I think what 

Karen: you've done for me is. Really make me see energy differently.

seeing it, you always talk about your angels and your guides, but you can see energy now as being this really loving force that really wants to do good. And it really is like everything else, your belief system that influences the role it plays in your life. And if you can look at it as this loving, energetic guide, shepherd a sister.

Along the way versus the scarcity, all the other things that you were talking about, Ellen, it just puts you in such a more powerful position, but also one of receiving that I think that all of us can benefit from. I just love, like now that I'll be journaling in the morning, I'll be.

Asking all money, beautiful money. Yeah. What do you have for us? What do you have to tell us? What wisdom do you have to share? It's really such a cool way to look at it. 

Ellen: The thing about receiving, I think [00:45:00] is an important conversation as well. We've heard that it's better to give them receive and giving's awesome.

We've talked about that. And you can't have a giver without a receiver. Sometimes we need to be that receiver, and you should be, if you're in business, if you're not willing to receive clients or money or the raise that's not gonna be good. And if we're not willing to let people support and help us, you're hurting their ability to feel good and generosity makes people happier and live longer.

And there's all sorts of benefits. So if you're like no, I got this. It's actually not very generous to not be a good receiver. You're depriving 

Karen: someone else that they're giving that gift. Yeah, you're right. So much 

Robyn: wisdom here, Ellen. So good. So you can find out more about working with Ellen, both personally or with your

That's E L L E N R O G I You can find her books, picture Your Prosperity and Great with Money on her website. You can even [00:46:00] download a free copy of Great With Money at ellen, She also has a new book coming out in September, aptly named Messages from Money, and I'm sure we'll be talking to you when that comes out.

So thank you, Ellen. We are so grateful for the synchronicities and for flowing in that abundance mindset and. This is just going to lead to so many other 

Ellen: conversations. I'm thrilled and grateful to be having this conversation with both of you and can't wait to see all the amazing things that you are creating and working on.

And thank you for doing this podcast. I've been a fan and love it. 

Robyn: That means so much. So thank you. And I, oh 

Karen: no, I'm gonna walk down the street with much more awareness. Cause who knows, in my neighborhood too might be listening. I just love 

Robyn: that part of the story. That's great.