How to Begin Again: Meditation Where You’d Least Expect It (Doreena Durbin) - Episode 187

Get ready for an episode that will stay with you long after you listen. We’re honored to introduce you to Doreena Durbin — a highly sensitive, intuitive empath who brings light into one of the darkest corners of our society: prison.

Doreena is the author of Get An Inner Life Meditate, and the visionary behind a transformative meditation program inside a men’s prison in Texas. Her work proves that redemption, healing, and spiritual connection are possible for everyone — no matter their past, no matter their surroundings.

In this conversation, we walk with her through the prison’s chapel library, where the chaos quiets and silence becomes sacred. You’ll hear about the miracles unfolding inside those walls, how meditation saved Doreena’s own life, and why she knows that when we help one person connect with their inner being, we’re actually shifting the collective.

If you’ve ever wondered…

• How do we truly forgive?
• How do we begin again?
• Can inner freedom exist even when outer freedom doesn’t?

…then this episode is for you.

Doreena’s story is living proof that no matter where you are, or what you’ve been through, you can access freedom within.

Check out Doreena's book, Get An Inner Life Meditate.

Visit theseekingcenter.com for more from Robyn + Karen, plus mega inspo -- and the best wellness + spiritual practitioners, products and experiences on the planet!

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 1:03 How to Begin Again: Meditation Where You’d Least Expect It

Transcript

Robyn: [00:00:00] I'm Robyn Miller Brecker and I'm Karen Loenser. Welcome to Seeking Center, the podcast. Join us each week as we have the conversations and we, through the spiritual and holistic clutter for you, we'll boil it down to what you need to know now, we're all about total wellness, which to us needs building a healthy life.

Karen: On a physical, mental, and spiritual level, we'll talk to the trailblazers who'll introduce you to the practices, products, and experiences that may be just what you need to hear about to transform your life. If you're listening to this, it's no accident. Think of this as your seeking center and your place to seek your center.

Robyn: And for the best wellness and spiritual practitioners, experts, products, experiences, and inspo, visit theseekingcenter. com. 

Today's conversation is one that stays with you long after it ends. We are honored to welcome Doreena Durbin, a highly sensitive, intuitive empath who has made it her mission to bring light into one of the darkest places in our society. [00:01:00] Prison Doreena is the author of Get An Inner Life Meditate, A powerful practical guide to accessing inner freedom, even when physical freedom feels impossible.

She's the visionary behind a transformative meditation program inside a men's prison in Texas. Her work proves that redemption, healing, and spiritual connection are possible for every. Human, no matter their past, no matter their surroundings. Doreena invites us into the heart of the sacred work, literally leading us into the prisons chapel Library, where the noise and chaos fade, and silence becomes a sanctuary.

What unfolds is nothing short of miraculous. If you've ever wondered how we heal, how we forgive, or how we begin again, you're in the right placeDoreena's story reminds us that when we help others connect to their inner being, we're not just transforming lives, we're transforming the collective. Let's get into it.

Hi, [00:02:00] Doreena. 

Doreena: Hi. Thank you so much for inviting me I really appreciate it. Love it. 

Karen: We're just as honored to meet you and share your story. It's so uplifting, it's so unusual. It's so brave. And I think that our listeners are just gonna be blown away by hearing the journey that you've been on.

There's so much to talk about, but could we just start and talk about you and how you said that meditation actually saved your life and. And then let's talk about how you're saving others by teaching them. 

Doreena: Yes. For me, I have lived a very eclectic life.

I love learning, I love teaching and what works for me. I share. When I worked in the College of Medicine at the University of Illinois, Chicago, I was there for medical students as they're dealing with all their stress

 and then for the surgeons they needed meditation more than. Most people. And [00:03:00] so I started a wellness program there. . I was there for 26 years altogether. But this has been in the back of my mind for many decades actually, of doing

and it all began in Chicago I went and visited The Prison Stateville Penitentiary, which was in the Blues Brothers and the warden had asked me to start a meditation program there. So I got a chance to tour and meet some of the guys, the inmates, but it didn't happen. Meditation.

Way back in those days in the eighties was still like a woo kind of word. People didn't understand it. So I had to break through that barrier. 

Robyn: And so was it when you said you were walking through that prison in Illinois? Was it then that you're like, maybe I can bring meditation to inmates?

when did that come to you? 

Doreena: When I was invited by the warden to come there, I felt like this is a perfect environment for these guys to really get it. And the [00:04:00] warden was very receptive.

He really liked that ' cause they were working on how to bring a sense of peace and change the guys from the inside out. . That's where it really began in my mind of doing this.

When I came here to Dallas, Texas. I felt things just happen when you're in alignment. 

Divinity with yourself and what your purpose is on this planet. Things just seem to happen. Opportunities. You're run into the person and before you know it, I ran into the minister of the program, the reverend who invited me to come with him in Dallas to visit and.

I walked in and it's just like I'm supposed to be here. I'm an intuitive, so I do feel things and I know if something's right for me, and I know if it's not, and I knew it would be a challenge, but I was up for the challenge based on all my life experiences up to that point. 

Karen: What was the reception that [00:05:00] you got Doreena when you walked in?

did you find that the inmates did look at you as a little woo, or were they very 

Doreena: open? They were curious more than anything. They were very curious, what's this woman coming in here, walking down this courtyard? What is she doing here? And many of 'em would stop me and say, why are you here? We'd just like to know.

And I say I have a meditation class. And I said, you should come. And the word got around and more and more. Started coming to the class. And then after I was teaching for about a month there, what would happen was I'd walk down and I'd greet them.

'cause it was post COVID, it was just Right there on the edge of when COVID finally opened it up again. So I would tell them, look, no touching. I'm gonna greet you with a namaste pose Staples. And I explained to them that my teacher, my guru, said that by thought word and deed, I salute the divinity within [00:06:00] you when I said that I could feel them.

Just kinda understand. She is a little bit different because they have a lot of classes on religion, but I don't teach religion. Meditation is a part of. Almost every religion in the world, just variations of it, And so having been in the council for Parliament of World Religions during the early nineties I learned about all these different religions and I was really interested in seeing the similarities rather than the differences.

So they felt that I was open to whatever they're doing. It's okay. Just come and learn this too. Embrace it and let this be a part of what else you're doing in your life, and you'll see the changes. 

Robyn: can you explain how long are these classes and how many of these inmates are there at one time?

Doreena: the first time I went there were 200 inmates. What? But when I did my [00:07:00] proposal, I did not want it to be overwhelming for the guys. 'cause you have to have a little bit of intimacy, a little. And so in my proposal, I said, no more than 20, 25 people, if they happen to show up, fine. So I kept it at that.

The class time it's approximately from the time I walk in till I leave, it's about three to four hours on there. it's a long 

Robyn: time. 

Doreena: It's, but it was good for me 'cause I could really feel and see what their challenge is. 

Robyn: Totally. But not everyone would have that courage was the word that Karen used to walk in and, be able to really command that space with that type of energy.

So I just, I'm like amazed by it. 

Doreena: It was so beautiful for me to feel, it was an opportunity for me to see the other side, the spiritual side of these guys. ' cause they would not come to my class if [00:08:00] they didn't have some spiritual element within them. 

Robyn: Yes. 

Karen: what strikes me.

So about what you did I'm thinking about the religious part and you can see how, if you're in an incarcerated situation, how you would wanna give yourself to a higher power at that point, right? Because you do feel powerless in so many ways in that environment. But what. I'm feeling you did for them is you gave them, instead of looking at everything as a higher power, you gave them an opportunity to look at their own inner power, and that was, I'm sure, transformative for them.

Can you talk about the reaction that they had to your classes? 

Doreena: Let me tell you this. I received this email. There's a few of 'em that come to my classes that I can send emails to, and this came in. About an hour ago in my email, so I wanted to share just this one paragraph from one of the guys. A few sentences So he says, and he's in my book. I used an initials, I didn't use anybody's [00:09:00] name. His initial is R. Great class on Wednesday. I'll bet it was difficult for you being an empath early in life in Las Vegas with all of the negative energy that is in that town. I'm glad you found meditation when you did.

It obviously helped you through that time. Just so you know, I see you as a Johnny Appleseed of sorts. You're just planting seeds of oneness and divinity, watering them and watching them grow. It's pretty cool, huh? Then I always turn them on to different teachings of Eckert Maya Angelou. I always talk after we do the meditation and then we'll have a discussion and sometimes I ask them what they wanna talk about.

And I just have to tell you this last class when I said, what would you like me to talk about? What can we share in the next class? And one of 'em said, crystals. And I'm like. [00:10:00] Crystals. I honestly, I thought I heard it, but did I hear that right? So I had, I asked him again, he said, you have crystals.

I said I don't know a lot about all of 'em, but I do love crystals. And I said, I actually have a book on crystals. Maybe I could bring and share some stuff with you. So that's the kinda stuff. And then he goes on to say this. R As always, I want to say how much I appreciate you and all you do for us. Your care and concern for us shows each and every class, and I'm so grateful.

God put you in my life. There's no doubt you changed the trajectory in course of my life and I know I'll never be able to repay you when I get 

Robyn: those. I'm like tearing up honestly, and I don't know R, I'm just, wow. Wow. 

Karen: Wow. And the fact he's mentioning Energy and 

Doreena: empath and this guy, I will tell you, when he first came, I just saw total [00:11:00] depression around He was very sad and depressed and was beating himself up for things that happened. But what I made sure I did in the very first class, I made it clear to them that. They still have that spark of divinity within them. If they can touch that space during the meditation, it's just going to be.

Just have a ripple effect throughout the prison. And people do recognize the change and the different within themselves the first thing people always reported through all my 45 years of teaching meditation , I say, what's the biggest thing you got from this?

They would say, my awareness has increased. you begin to see. Your inner core and what drives you, what things are you learning about yourself, learning that you're harboring or holding onto, and not forgiving yourself for things you've said or did throughout your life. And that's the very first [00:12:00] thing that happens.

And so once you get to that point where you're objectifying, you're seeing yourself during the meditative state, you're letting go, you're letting go of thoughts in different. Things that you've held onto . We know , our world parents might say, oh, you're no good. You're never gonna amount to anything.

Guess what? They take that in. So I hope part of what I'm doing is to eradicate some of that or shine light on that darkness. So I feel I'm getting just as much from it as they are. 

Robyn: During these sessions that, as you said, can be three to four hours, how much of it is this sharing of stories and being vulnerable within that space, and how much of it is actual meditation?

Doreena: We spend about 45 minutes maybe altogether with the meditation and the rest of it is discussion. I might bring something to read. I might, ask them, do you have any questions? [00:13:00] Is there anything you want to talk about or hear about? And some of them share their stories and others they're 

Robyn: just listening and taking it in. 

Karen: What type of meditation? Is it Doreena? do you lead them through a mantra? Do you teach them or show them a guided meditation? how does that work? 

Doreena: I start with a breathing technique. I teach about five different types of meditation.

But some of them I can't teach there. For example, one of them visualization practice uses a candle well. A lighter so I can't do that although I did by. Fake candles from Amazon that they operate hard. I brought those one day and they got it.

they said, now you can't do it here, but when you get out, you can do this there's a balancing effect with the meditation. . I teach the mantra. I teach the breathing pranayama we call it. And then I also can teach that mantra with. That battery candle.

And then the other times there's [00:14:00] a chant. And I was a little apprehensive to bring in the chant, but I wrote it one day. I said, Hey, you guys wanna try this? I said, what it will do is as we're chanting together, it brings the vibrations of this group in the room here into a higher, frequency and vibration, and they fell right into it. They love it. They write it on the wall and there's a whiteboard there. I'm not allowed to bring any props. I can't bring for example, DVDs, so I just flow.

That's what I do. I take all the teachings and things that I've learned and I feel being an empath and an intuitive, I can feel the room when they're around there. I'll feel, what are they dealing with today? Sadness. One of them told me he had lost his mother a week after he was incarcerated, and he was just really beating himself up about that and.

I said, [00:15:00] okay we'll work with this and I'll choose topics based on my intuition and their experiences, what they want. So there's a lot of things we do, and I think the most unusual was the crystals. And then afterwards I thought, these are men. Men like rocks, boys grown up.

I have two grandsons just really love rocks and stones and crystals. So I thought, why shouldn't they? 

Karen: I was thinking as we were talking about that though, think about how deprived they are of that grounded earth energy, where they are.

And how that. Must feel. So I could see how if they were allowed to have a crystal of some kind, that would help them have a way of regrounding.

Doreena: Yeah, and see this is what I want. My intent is to help build them up from the inside. They are divine, no matter who and what you are.

Everybody's got that everybody. And then I bring in all [00:16:00] my experiences that I've had going to Native American powwows and I have some native blood and I've got all kinds of blood in me, so it's easy for me to reach into all these different faiths and religions. I don't have a problem with that at all.

They feel it that I'm not judging them. They are getting what they need, what they want. They're not afraid to ask anything in my classes. 

Robyn: And I know one of the things that we talked about the last time we spoke about how by coming regularly to your class, how this impacts them.

Both, for them while they're even in prison. What have they told you in terms of how this has impacted their time there? 

Doreena: , First, I'll tell you that I can't imagine being in prison and meditating in that environment. 56 guys share one [00:17:00] dorm.

Surrounded by plexiglass, and this is Texas, so you're talking this time of year could be 120 degrees. Wow. So , they have a fan everybody's trying to share and it's challenging. So , I don't want to tell them, oh, you have to meditate at this time.

And I don't get into, you have to do certain poses. No, that's not necessary. You meditate when you can fit it in. If you're in your bunk before you have to get up at 4:00 AM then, try to get a few minutes, five minutes. And so I, make sure that they have the freedom. freedom is within.

And that how they, as they're doing this, they have free will, they can do it whenever it feels right for them. If they don't feel like doing it at all, that's okay. It's all okay. As long as they have learned some of the things where they can use it to their advantage when they feel stressed. They did tell me that [00:18:00] it helps with camaraderie.

Those that have been to my class, they see each other in the courtyard and, Hey man, how you doing? And it makes them more aware of when they are triggered. 

Somebody is coming, is in their space and wanting to get into some sort of a fight. They feel, they can feel that solar plexus is going haywire, but they have the awareness of it.

They didn't know this before. But now they're catching themselves before they act. That's huge. Yeah. They catch themselves and so they don't react the way they normally would have in the past. So it has a huge effect and I just wish that more people would do this, go into the prison environment and women's prisons, they need it as well.

Karen: I think about how I used to just walk through Penn Station on the way to work and how [00:19:00] that energy of the chaos and all of the emotion that was there, how that would impact me. I'm sure many of those guys that are there empaths as well and don't even know.

And so now you're putting them in a prison environment with, in this all this chaotic energy. Never taught that they have their own energy, let alone free will on how to control it. So it's like opening up a whole new door of peace and access to their own inner. Wisdom and control, all the things that the body is reacting to that they probably don't even are not even aware of.

So the gift, oh my gosh, Doreena that you're giving them. I can't even imagine how much help that you've given those men. 

Doreena: I will tell you one of the guys known as D in my book he has been outta prison for a year and I still keep in touch with them. And he just started a teacher training [00:20:00] course to be able to go back into the prison and do what I'm doing in the prisons and more because he's got the actual experience.

So people are gonna bring this when they get out of prison to hopefully to their families, to their community, but people they might try to keep them at that place that they knew them. 

Robyn: right? Yes. 

Doreena: And don't let that disturb you.

You're going to be a different person. They're gonna feel their look in your eye. I can tell. I look in their eyes and their faces and they all of a sudden now they have light in their eyes. Little glimmers of. Whereas before it was darkness. 

Robyn: because you really are seeing them, you're seeing the essence of all that really is possible for them, which probably hadn't been seen 

Doreena: Yeah. So I love to have more people doing what I do. 

Karen: I can feel in your energy too, and I'm sure you already know this about yourself, but there is that frequency that you're emitting of. No [00:21:00] judgment, just peace, just worthiness. Just we're all the same. We're all connected, we're all light at our essence.

And it's just rekindling that, remembering for 'em because they're, to your point, think years they've been probably told otherwise, years they've probably told themselves that they're otherwise. So finding a way to reach back and find that light within them. It is reflected in you because you can reflect that back within them.

Robyn: it's just so beautiful. And speaking of that, how do you hold space for both accountability and compassion?

Doreena: so compassion is something that you emanate. You either have it or you don't.

You can't fake it. There's no faking it. I'm not perfect, and that's why I can see. That in the guise too. I am not a perfect person. I am not I keep trying to remind myself the [00:22:00] Enlightened Beans Club, cash Feeders. I don't know if I love this, but at the back it says something amazing is going to happen to me today and have all these uplifting kind of quotes and things.

It's just, really important to spread this. So you said about compassion. What was the other thing? 

Robyn: Accountability. 'cause I think some people listening may say they still may have done something really wrong to land themselves in prison. And so how do you hold space for that along with that compassion?

Doreena: I always tell them, you are not what you've done. You are not your deeds. You are a divine entity. We're all part of the whole, everybody. And whatever you've done that's passed, let the past go. The idea, and you can't think about the future because it's not here yet, but think about the present moment, be [00:23:00] in the moment.

All of the stuff that happened, you can't change it, but you can do things to help those that you might have offended. You can help them and do things for them. If you have children, you wanna help your children, so it's a cycle. It's circular. You come in, you're like this, you get angry.

You learn lessons you have challenges, and then you just get out if you do and say, I never wanna go through this prison experience again. I'm gonna do something different with my life. And so it is a challenge.

Robyn: Do you talk a lot about forgiveness? Both forgiveness for themselves or whatever it is.

 I do 

Doreena: talk about that at times. There are reasons, but I teach so many different things in the class that I don't focus on just one thing. There's all kinds. In my book, for example, I [00:24:00] have things in here about, let's see. The chapters will guides me, but I have things that I teach them about going forward in freedom once they get out.

Gratitude's very important. Be aware. And beware. That's good. Yeah. Divinity resides within, is meditation a religion? People always ask that. And they'll say what's the difference between meditation and prayer?

And I say that prayer is when you speak to a higher power God. Allah, whoever you define. Yeah. And meditation is when you listen. 

You open up and you listen. You allow that force to come through. Yeah, there's a lot of different attachments. That's a big one. The guys Get attached to certain things, whether it's things in their life with relationships or maybe attached to an idea, their egos.

Robyn: everybody should understand these [00:25:00] things And so important that you're teaching this in this environment that really is gonna hopefully and is rehabilitating people in a different way. 

Doreena: because we all have a chance for redemption and any one of us, as far as I know, my friends and myself could have landed in prison at some time in our life.

It could have been us. And so what do you wanna keep holding? A deed or a missed deed. 

Instead of allowing them to get better. 

Doreena: And I would want that. I wouldn't wanna know that there's somebody out there that's gonna help me get to be a better person instead of holding onto all the negativity.

Yeah. When I think about it I have compassion for them. I actually had an opportunity to meet the Dalai Lama and I loved that interaction with him because that's the thing about being a meditator. If [00:26:00] you're sincere and you're genuine in it, you are going to align yourself. Meet the Dalai Lama.

I just happened to be standing at the right place at the right time, and here he comes 

Robyn: wow. 

Doreena: And he was in a car, it was at the Palmer House in Chicago and. I felt like there's a sense of, people, you know their hearts, something about them their energy, their essence. And I've always seen in religions, for example, which. Is the part that some people get they think, oh, I shouldn't be doing this or that or the other. this is gonna happen if I don't follow whatever my family's taught. And that's fine, but allow yourself to say, okay, I have this.

My teacher always said that if you're a Christian. With meditation, you'll become a better Christian because you'll understand more from a deeper level. If you're a Buddhist, you'll become a [00:27:00] better Buddhist. 

Robyn: So true. 

Karen: Were there days when you found it difficult to protect your own energy going into that environment or?

Did the benefits outweigh all of that 

Doreena: a good question because that was my I have to say fear, I don't like that word 'cause there's either fear and love in the universe, but I was cautious the very first time. My very first class, I was cautious and I had to be aware of everything around me and, it was a learning experience for me too.

 But after that day one, that first class, everything else just felt right into place, 

Karen: everything. 

Doreena: since their hearts and their desire to wanna get out of there and to be better people, I could feel that. so yeah, there were times in the beginning, but I don't have that feeling at all.

I elated when I walked down that [00:28:00] courtyard, there was one class, it's in my book where as we are walking down the courtyard, these guys were all walking together and I looked up and I said, oh my God. Look, guys, look at all those birds up there.

There must have been about 2000 birds all haphazardly just flying around. And One of the guys said, oh, that reminds me of Alfred Hitchcock's, the birds. I started to chuckle and some of the other guys did. I said, you know what? This is going to be a topic of our next class perception. You perceive that?

What I thought when I saw them, I was excited. because in my mind birds are the messengers of God. That's how I see it. And so I mentioned that to them and I said, look, for every bird up there, there's 2300 inmates, each one of them. For each one of you guys here, there's a message. 

Robyn: Wow. And 

Doreena: about perception.

And it [00:29:00] was really a very interesting conversation because everybody has different ideas. 

Robyn: And you're bringing them such. Hope and such a new way of looking at life, which I would assume most of them have really never had that opportunity to look at life in that way. 

Doreena: Yeah. One of the guys shared that, there was that intergenerational trauma and almost everybody in his family had been in prison, so that was the norm in his life.

Yeah. And people are not privileged though you don't have anything that, you can call your own. It's all, you have to follow the line.. I often hear Johnny Cash Walk the Line. I hear that song as I'm watching them walk between the yellow lines, 

They have to stay within those lines.

They cannot venture out outside of those lines. And it's just that type of control for me. I'm [00:30:00] a free spirit and I just resist any kind of control. 

Karen: Oh yeah. I think about even just my son growing up and how. Watching him as a mom, I was like, this is how we do things. And he was like, mom, actually, this is how I'm gonna do it.

Because he was that free spirit. And as I started to watch him, follow his path, I could see how he got brighter and brighter versus when he was in a. Classroom he went to Catholic school for a while and they were very specific about how and I saw what that did to him just as a little kid.

So I can't even imagine the lives that those inmates must have lived and then being confined to a place where it's even more intensely controlled, has just got to feel. So overwhelming. And so this idea of being able to go within, to look for the signs that you're giving them to sample the emotional scale of positivity versus all of the negativity and hopelessness and sadness and things you're opening them up to that [00:31:00] possibility and how they can reach for that within themselves.

Doreena: Yes. Look at the birds. they don't have a lot of plants and life, on the green side. But all of that is healing. And so I encourage them, whatever they have, there's a little patch of grass here. Look at a blade of grass contemplate on that plate grass and they also have some feral cats that live there.

 A few of them. And I just, I love that because, they get an opportunity to see other things besides just their prison walls 

Robyn: And for someone who's listening or watching and they feel overwhelmed or in their own mental prison, what's one practice that you believe they could start today?

Doreena: Oh, I definitely think one of the most valuable ones is putting the attention on the breathing. walking meditation as they're going, walking down wherever they [00:32:00] are. If they have all these thoughts in your mind, like in the meditative state, what I teach is you let go of thoughts. Thoughts are going to come in.

We have 60,000 thoughts a day as human beings. Why do we wanna hold onto things? So you're learning this technique? 

Doreena: Letting go so that when you get out there in the world and you have to deal with challenges 

It's easier to roll off your back. Instead of saying, you said this to me yesterday I'm holding onto this.

It teaches them, it trains them that it's not important. That's just the ego's wants to control. So The discussions we have, again, are based on what is going on in their lives and in that week or that moment, and when they felt the biggest challenges out of sadness with their families and their relationships.

And I feel that I picked that up. But we don't focus on that. I do my best to bring [00:33:00] light I wear. Bright colors, 'cause they all have white uniforms and so I'm not allowed to wear white, so that's fine. 'cause in case there's an altercation, I don't wanna be confused.

Karen: Yes, let's hope not. I thought that you would get confused. 

Doreena: I'm very short, so I'm just a little under five foot tall. So I'm an anomaly when I go through there. And there was one class I recall that stays in my mind. There was a young man, African American, and I asked, is anybody in sports here? Do you play any sports? And he was into it. And so the topic that day was about, you remember when the Bulls, Chicago Bulls won six championships?

I sure 

Robyn: do. That was our heyday. I was here. Yeah. I loved it. Yeah, you were too, right? 

Doreena: Yeah, I was living there and Phil Jackson, I have his book sacred Hoops would teach Scotty [00:34:00] Pippen, Michael Jordan, all these guys how to meditate. And so I brought that up and. I was alert. He wanted to know everything about it. Oh, this class is good for me. 'cause he wasn't sure. 

Robyn: You were able to relate. 

Doreena: Yeah. The other inmates that was in his dorm had said to him, you should come, just come.

And those that come to my class, try to encourage other guys to come because there's always turnover. So I. taught somebody three years ago that is still there and has maybe 10 more years to serve, and I might have taught somebody that is gonna be out the next day or the next week. So there's a turnover.

 And it's okay because that's more and more people are gonna learn these practices and learn how to. Be in touch with their inner spirit and be able to pass it on and we have that ripple effect now. 

Karen: Talking about passing things on and ripple effect, what are the hopes that you have for your book and your [00:35:00] program for future?

Where do you hope this all. 

Doreena: My biggest hope is that other people, other teachers and healers will come in there and help these guys, whether it's that prison, another prison serve, share. If you're doing something that's good for humanity, share that. Don't hold onto it. You don't own it. I don't own meditation.

I wouldn't be here today without my teacher. So I honor all of my teachers regardless if they're Jesus, Buddha, my guru, whoever they are. I honor them all. And just knowing that we all have something that we can share, that we can serve others in humanity for the benefit of humanity rather than all the fighting.

We have enough of that division. We have to find that unity and what's inherent within all of us. 

Robyn: That is the truth. Thank you so much, [00:36:00] Doreena, for all that you're doing. Everybody should go pick up a copy of your book, get An Inner Life, meditate, what you can get on Amazon,

Karen: thank you for coming here and , truly inspiring us with your story and having the courage to take that walk through that courtyard and meet those men where they are and where they needed you so much. And I'm just grateful that you were also able to follow that inspiration when it came to you and.

Not everybody would have that courage. So especially I can see you here, I can see this ball of light that you are. That took not only bravery, but persistence to actually go the distance and raise your hand and say, Nope please pick me, let me go.

So you really walk the walk and it's such an opportunity For all of us who wanna try to make a difference or who are feeling called to do something more. It can be something small, but it can also be something big like what you did. 

Robyn: I just have to agree with Karen and say thank you as well because you really are [00:37:00] seeing the light of people as Karen just said so beautifully.

We see your light. It is huge. Like we got on and it was like. You were this burst that we both needed in our day, honestly, and I think what people are going to feel as they listen to this episode of our podcast is your light that is being carried and has such a presence that you can walk into a prison, being under five feet and yet radiate throughout.

so you are making such a difference in the world by doing what you're doing, and you are inspiring so many people with your book, with this conversation, and with the work that you're doing on this weekly basis. So thank you. 

Doreena: Thank you so much for inviting me to this. I really enjoyed it.