Seeking Center: The Podcast

Woo News: Splenic Intuition, Annabelle, Cheese Psychic, + Memories from the Future - Episode 190

• Robyn Miller Brecker, Karen Loenser, Lisa Capretto • Season 2 • Episode 190

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Is your spleen psychic? Can you have memories from the future? And what does a haunted doll have to do with your energy field? Buckle up—this month’s Woo News is WILD.

In this episode, Robyn, Karen, and Lisa go full-on woo-curious, asking the big (and bizarre) questions:

  • What is splenic intuition, and should we be listening to it? A contestant from Love is Blind UK thinks so.
  • Are those “random” feelings really future memories?
  • Is there such a thing as too much spiritual exploration?
  • Can a cheese reading give you insight about your life?
  • And yes—we’re talking about the infamous haunted Annabelle doll and what it taught us about energetic protection

You’ll laugh, you’ll question reality, and you’ll definitely walk away with a few practices (and boundaries) to keep your energetic field squeaky clean.

Whether you’re deep into your Human Design chart, woo-curious, or feeling a little energetically off—this episode will have something just for you.

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Visit seekingcentercommunity.com for more with Robyn + Karen and many of the guides on Seeking Center: The Podcast. You'll get access to live weekly sessions, intuitive guidance, daily inspiration, and a space to share your journey with like-minded people who just get it.

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter.

Robyn: [00:00:00] I'm Robyn Miller Brecker and I'm Karen Loenser. Welcome to Seeking Center, the podcast. Join us each week as we have the conversations and we, through the spiritual and holistic clutter for you, we'll boil it down to what you need to know now, we're all about total wellness, which to us needs building a healthy life.

Karen: On a physical, mental, and spiritual level, we'll talk to the trailblazers who'll introduce you to the practices, products, and experiences that may be just what you need to hear about to transform your life. If you're listening to this, it's no accident. Think of this as your seeking center and your place to seek your center.

Robyn: And for the best wellness and spiritual practitioners, experts, products, experiences, and inspo, visit theseekingcenter. com. Alright, friends, it is time for Woo News. Lisa Capretto has been pulling the stories from the spiritual and wellness universe, so you don't have to go searching through the noise. She's got her radar tuned to the magic that actually matters.

And that we all need to know [00:01:00] about. Let's get going. Hi, Lisa. Hi, Karen. Hi. We are very excited because there's a few that.

We've been starting to talk about and keep waiting so we can have this conversation 

Lisa: together. Yes. We need to discuss as a family. The first thing that I wanna ask is, how's everybody spleen doing today? Feeling good. Feeling strong? 

Karen: Why 

Lisa: do 

Karen: you 

Lisa: ask Lisa? Because I watch this really dumb show called Love is Blind, and I happen to love it.

There's a new season out from the UK and there's a guy on there. Who is a human design coach, and that's in our zeitgeist in our world a little bit. But this guy talks about something that I have not heard discussed before, so I figured we could talk about it. He always says that he is following his splenic intuition, his spleen, We have heard a lot of things and that is not one of them. That's what I'm saying. We know a lot of people who talk about following their intuition, [00:02:00] and we know a lot of intuitives. I have never heard the spleen surface and I have a lot of questions, but before that, I just wanna play for Karen so she can see what we're talking about.

Video of Spleen: Where I follow my spleen. 

Lisa: Oh, 

Video of Spleen: we call it a splenic awareness. 

I have to follow my spleen. It buy to trust my spleen. Trust my spleen. 

 

Robyn: Okay. Can I just say for those who don't know what the function of the spleen is, 

Karen: I'm literally googling it as we speak. So I'm glad you're raising this, 

Robyn: right? , Let's just level set here. The spleen is a fist size organ that plays a vital role in your immune system and blood filtration.

It filters blood, removing old or damaged blood cells and pathogens like bacteria and viruses. The spleen also stores white blood cells and platelets and helps recycle iron from old red blood cells. I always associate it with mononucleosis because I had mono. And the first thing they do is they check your spleen. [00:03:00] So I just wanna say that because I've never heard it in this context of instinct or intuition. 

Karen: And obviously we've all heard listening to your gut, right? That's one thing. So I just Googled that and your gut breaks down.

Food absorbs nutrients and eliminates waste. So they both feel weird to be listening to and tuning in for your intuition. So 

Lisa: I had many questions about this when I first heard it, and one of them was, how is splenic instinct different from your gut feeling?

How does he even know it's his spleen talking to him? Does he feel it in that particular spot? Or like, why is it the spleen? Why not? The heart or the gut, for example, right? And what if you don't have your spleen anymore? Some people get their spleens taken out. Do they not have this magic intuition or whatever?

This is so many questions about it, and I just, I felt like I need to talk about this with Robyn and Karen because we can't talk about this with anybody else. 

Robyn: And I'm thinking what we also need to do is bring in a human [00:04:00] design. Expert to see if this ever comes up. Karen and I both have had several human design readings.

Spleen has never come up for either of us. 

Karen: No, but you know what's interesting about this conversation is that we were talking even earlier about how all parts of your body can actually be associated with emotions. Oh, will you look that up? 

Robyn: Will you look spleen up 

Karen: yes. There's Louise Hay who actually wrote a book called You Can Heal Your Life. And she actually has a list of every single body part. That you have, and they can be associated with a certain emotional issue.

It could be finance, it could be fear, it could be, withholding any kind of an emotional trauma and that you're buried it within that part of your body. So just long story short, , we should look it up. Let's see what you get, Lisa. 

Lisa: got a live journal thing here, so I'm like, I don't know if that's gonna be a good source. 

Karen: this is saying in Chinese medicine, the spleen is associated with the emotion of [00:05:00] worry. Pensiveness obsessive thoughts and lack of ease in life. 

Lisa: Yeah. Obsession related to obsessions of being obsessed about things.

 Very interesting. So when I first heard him talking about this, based on what we do in the conversations we have, that this wouldn't throw up like a red flag for me, but as soon as I heard him. Talking about this and referencing it so much, I was just like, Uhuh, something's weird.

I don't like this. I don't know what's going on. And I was trying to think about it, like why? What is it about this? Because like we talked about, we know a lot of people who follow their intuition. We fully believe in that. We like it. Why is something like this feel different? And I think for me it's because he's talked about it so very much, and.

The reliance on it. When I hear somebody talk about that, it's are they trying to use intuition as get outta jail free? Oh, no accountability here. I'm just following my [00:06:00] intuition, and so it ticks something in me in a way that I'm like, Uhuh. I don't know about this and I haven't watched beyond two episodes, so I have no idea what goes on with this guy and his spleen.

I don't know yet. I will find out, 

Robyn: So I have to say, Lisa brought this up like a week ago , that she'd seen this and heard about it. And so I watched it and I'm somewhat, far into love is. Blind UK and I highly recommend it 'cause it's awesome.

For that kind of bingey , not getting too deep. So I watched it and. I'm not gonna totally give things away except to say what happens with him?

He comes back later in the show and it's not whether you like him or not. He's had a journey prior,, to coming on the show, which is what drove him to be a human design coach. I definitely think he's too reliant on this phrase and it and it makes it like a joke, which is unfortunate.

'cause I do think there's [00:07:00] probably something really to learn from it for people. Just like we're talking about it. 

Karen: He's using as a hook to get attention.

Robyn: Yes. But I'll say what happens later in the show, which I'm impressed with, is that when faced with.

more drama. 

 

Robyn: He is able to handle it pretty well. , You can tell he's done his other kinds of work. It doesn't make him the best person ever or anything. I'm not. But I will say, I think the way that he handles himself into situations where there is like screaming or drama or whatever, he's very centered.

Karen: Actually connect his spleen to human design. Or does he just use that as like another phrase, instead of listening to my gut or listening to my intuition, he just uses the phrase, yes.

I 

Robyn: think that's what I got from it, what I was also really. Interested in seeing was hoping that people would take that and wanna understand more about human design or spirituality and maybe they did off camera or what they didn't showcase. But [00:08:00] instead people really joked about it.

And that's 

Karen: what I feel. Yeah. 

Robyn: And I even think the word intuition, what was surprising to me that came up and maybe in the episodes you saw Lisa. He would say, when I talk about intuition, I mean for you that might mean instinct. That's a good way of thinking about it. And people are like, I don't even know what you're talking about.

What does this mean? And I when it came to intuition and I thought that was interesting. Very, 

 I'm really glad that it was brought up. . And if nothing else from what we're talking about, go watch Love Is Blind UK and think about next time something's bothering you.

Maybe there's another meaning

Lisa: The next article is a little bit related to this. It's not love is blind, but it's called is your Woo Woo Lifestyle Ruining your Relationship. 

 So I know that. None of us follow soccer but a Manchester United guy is divorcing his wife of a year or something like that. And this Dutch outlet is reporting that part of it [00:09:00] has to do with her being super woo and her penchant for posting, quote, exaggerated spiri weary content on her Instagram, whatever that means.

 So I was like, that's interesting, especially considering what we just talked about with Love is Blind in the relationship thread. The author who wrote this piece said that this is something that got in the way of her relationships and she, walked through how that happened and the slope of it, so she had started. By just, she was an alcoholic and she had switched out substances for self-help books. And so then she started really visualizing the perfect life, this is a perfect life, I want and she said it ended up like she wasn't present in her actual life, which you can see how that would happen, When you're in it. you do not. But when she steps back from it, it's very a clear line of how all of this happened. And she said she. Ended up kind of living in a bubble and [00:10:00] wasn't connected with people that were in her life. instead of appreciating what she had, she was just thinking about this perfect life that she was trying to visualize.

That's what I wanna get to. From there, it turned into toxic positivity where she was like only wanting happy emotions, only things. that turned into. Spiritual bypassing where she was using spirituality to avoid a lot of the pain and trauma that she was feeling and experiencing. And I just thought it was an interesting article, the way it laid that out.

how The line gets thin, and wellness practices, they even say in the piece, it's can really only support relationships when they deepen self-awareness. And that is how I know we all like to use spirituality as a tool for understanding ourselves a lot more.

was just this really good piece that I thought was worth maybe this is part of what bothered me about the love is Blind guy, is that it was just too much or too present. but we're here right now in the [00:11:00] 3D so can we also focus on that?

Karen: Oh, Lisa, you said so many really important things. you really did. And I think that's what was also bothering me about the love is blind thing. Anytime you try to inflict. Mindfulness and spirituality on people, or use it as a crutch or even, a platform I think that's when you're in danger of not only isolating yourself from other people, but really not living in the 3D real world, which is why we're all here in the first place. So we love all of these. Practices and tools are to experience explore, but at the end of the day you can't force it on other people and it can isolate you if you're using it.

As a way of just being the only sole guidance in your entire life. I can see how that happens and I can see how even in my own family, I remember growing up my, with a very woo mom and we all thought she was crazy and she'd leave, notes around the house and we were like. You do, you mom.

And I'll do me, so we all have to have our own journeys and I think the [00:12:00] minute that we try to either force people into our world of woo and beliefs or we just live so isolated from other people because we don't wanna experience anything but this perfect world, then we're not living in our real world and we're not really doing what we're here to do.

Robyn: And I think it speaks to that whole idea of spiritual bypassing, which we've mentioned on Seeking Center in many episodes. We haven't done a full episode on it, but we've definitely touched on it a lot over these years. And that is, what you're just talked about, Karen, not having.

A stake in the real world. what we hope to do with Seeking Center is it's that integration, knowing that there is more than we can see, and that we have power within ourselves that we can't even see and answers within ourselves, however we chose to be. Human on earth at this time.

So you need to be able to experience both. And I can see [00:13:00] where if you are not eye to eye on that and, or like someone is trying to just infuse, that could definitely ruin a relationship.

Lisa: Yeah. And there was a quote that I did wanna pull from this piece. It says, it can become a socially acceptable way to withdraw from relationships while feeling like you're doing something positive. 

Ugh. 

Lisa: Like that just right there is exactly the issue. 

Robyn: And you said, Lisa, it's this fine line.

And it really is a fine line. it's how do you use these foundations and beliefs? Where can you use things as resources rather than excusing everything or ignoring.

Real life. 

Karen: it's like saying all is well when maybe things aren't. . Who was it? Ferris Bueller. And the chaos that's happening around them, like you can't deny that's happening. It can help you balance yourself in crazy situations.

But on the other hand, it can also, like you were saying, [00:14:00] Robyn. Cause you to avoid and not dig in an experience where you really need to. And I'm always thinking about that too. if anybody's ever heard it's not about putting a happy face on an empty gas tank.

 Like we could just. I'll say, oh, and that's like pure denial. The idea is like deal with it in the best, most positive way that you can. But don't ignore or avoid. 

Robyn: Have faith. . But don't ignore and it doesn't mean you don't deal.

Exactly. you have to learn how to deal. That's really interesting. That's a really good article. 

Karen: I would be curious though, Wouldn't it be an interesting statistic to see how many relationships are impacted by this?

Because I think, more and more people are into the w are doing these practices and even if it's not bypassing, it does put you in a different state of belief and. The way you live your life. And I could see how if your partner or family member is not there, how it could really impact.

Robyn: And I think there are, like even [00:15:00] in spirituality and in religion, there becomes extremes in both . right? And it can feel almost cultish in that sense. And you do have to be wary of those things, So whether it's spirituality or religion. There has to be part of you that doesn't get totally sucked into the extremism of it.

Yeah. 

Lisa: Nobody wants to accidentally 

Robyn: join a cult. 

It's true. It is the extremism of all of it, none of that is healthy 

Lisa: For sure. And I wanna stay on the topic of instincts and intuition and bring up an article that you found, Robyn, i'll tell you the title. It says, your consciousness can jump through time, meaning gut feelings are memories from the future.

Scientists say, 

Robyn: so what makes this even more interesting to me personally is that my friend Benji Jacobson sent it to me who was a former neurosurgeon who's now a neuropsychiatrist.

 So it came from him and he said, I have a feeling you'll be interested in this, we love Benji, right? And so [00:16:00] yes, the article I thought makes so many of the conversations that we have even feel more validated and something to continue to look into. What does that mean, right?

So if scientists are able to now see that there is this. Time jumping in quotes, to me, it lends itself so much to like quantum theory and quantum science

Lisa: and they talk about that. the piece, and this is something that they've, been studying for quite a long time.

In the nineties they talk about this experiment that they had in the article where they had subjects, people just wired to EEG machines and they were told to press a button. And a random image would show up on a screen in front of them, either a positive image, like a sunrise or a negative image, like a car crash.

 And the EEG would gauge the brain activity in the five seconds between them pressing the button and the image showing [00:17:00] up. So predictions of seeing a positive image, like if you feel like you're gonna see a positive image. There was no EEG. Reaction, but if you felt like you were gonna see a negative image, there was a spike in brain activity.

So this, they used this as a statistically significant and statistically reliable scientific study. And the CIA, they say even declassified their own type of pre sentiment study in 1995. So this is something that people have definitely been interested in the scientific community, and now obviously a lot more.

 Talking about it in the mainstream, which is very cool. 

Karen: I was trying to get my head around , what this article was actually about.

And it says on an early October night in 1989, a 4-year-old girl was shocked awake by a phone call and a scream. She tiptoed barefoot. On the clammy vinyl tile of the hallway, he died in a car accident. Her mother's voice cracked before it shattered. The girl's shiny dark eyes could only stare.

From the moment she threw her arms around her father before he boarded this flight for that [00:18:00] fateful business trip, she knew she would never see him alive again. So for me, Are they trying to say that she had a memory that her father would actually die before he died?

Or is it a premonition that she just knew are they both the same thing? 

Lisa: Yeah, I guess that's the question is precognition versus these future memories. I think there's a lot to still sort through and I feel like it would be really good to talk to. The people from this article, these neuroscientists, and 

Robyn: I will tell you, I can't remember if I've ever said this before in our conversations or publicly, but the week before my dad died, I was sitting on my couch in my living room and there was this photo of my dad with my mom, That was right near the couch And when I looked at it that week prior, my dad wasn't in the photo. And it freaked me out and I remember it, and I remember being really upset by it. And then, I looked [00:19:00] back a few minutes later and he was there, but I remember, I was 12, so it wasn't like I was on anything.

I remember looking at it very clearly and feeling this pain like an emotional. gut punch of some sort. When I looked at it, it made me upset. And then a week later my dad passed away suddenly. And I often think about it. I often think about sitting on the couch. I know where I was.

I remember it. I never said anything to anyone 'cause I thought I was weird. 

Lisa: I have a weird story like that too, a little bit. , I was in LA and I had just found out that I was pregnant after Ava.

 And I was like, and we had been trying and I was like, this is gonna happen, and I didn't know if my heart really wanted it to, but whatever. And so I remember looking, I was in the hallway and I looked at this family photo and it was me, Dave, and Ava, the three of us. I remember having this feeling of that's my family, that is I cannot, I was like another one in this [00:20:00] picture, like I specifically tried and I was like, I can't, it's blank.

I do not see a family of four. This is weird because I'm pregnant, obviously we're gonna be a family of four and. Lo and behold, that is not how it worked out. And I think that ultimately higher self, Lisa knew but it was in that moment where I was like, that's so weird.

It felt so strong, but I was like. 

Robyn: No, I have the chills. I think the fact that we can share those moments, other people are gonna remember those moments they thought were like just weird. Maybe that is quantum entanglement. Maybe it was precognition.

I think it might have been, 

Karen: I'll share a story too that I literally was just, I remembered it yesterday and I haven't remembered it in years, was when I was young. We were in the car, we were getting ready to go somewhere and we always used to get in the car before my parents came out and we had this little car.

My brother was in the front pretending to [00:21:00] drive the car, as he always did. And somehow he put it into, this was back in the day when you could put it into neutral and the car rolled back. And the neighbor actually happened to see it and come running out of his house and stopped the car right before we literally would've crashed into his car.

 And I had a dream a couple of days before that. I had the same exact dream and so did my brother. 'cause we share that we were little kids back in the day. But it was like such a traumatic event that. I just remember saying to him, I can't believe that you had that dream. And he's yeah, I can't believe he said, I dreamt I did this, and the car went back.

So again, like it's one of those things where people could say is it premonition? Is it deja vu? Is it all of these things? But I just, I love the idea now that science is starting to be able to catch up and help us understand. What is going on in the brain and how it's all interconnected. I love it.

Robyn: And for those who don't know what an EEG is, I just [00:22:00] wanted to explain that it's when you put those nodes on your head and they're connected to a machine to measure your brainwaves, just for those who may not know. 

Karen: Yeah. 

Robyn: . Thank you for bringing that up.

And I'm so glad that Benjy, you sent it to me. 

Lisa: thank you, Benji.

So something else that's fascinating but is certainly more out there on the woowoo scale is have you ever heard of a cheese psychic?

 I haven't. 

Robyn: No, 

Lisa: It's a thing. and I read an article about somebody who went to a cheese psychic. It has an actual name. I don't know if I'm pronouncing this right. Tera man, I don't know how to say it. cheese based divination. so wild to me. But what I love is this is a woman based in Chicago. Where we are. Yeah. And she does this Private sessions, group workshops . She reads cheese by studying the mold patterns and the crack shapes and the vein direction, and even how [00:23:00] crumbles fall off of it onto the plate. 

Robyn: This is really different. Her name's Jennifer Bilock. And she's a Chicago past journalist. We may have to reach out to, you know we are open to all. And they're different cheeses. 

Lisa: so the way it works is apparently she tells you to go pick four cheeses or whatever.

So you just go out to your grocery store and you just pick whichever four cheeses are. Speaking to you and then you send her labeled photos and she reads what's in the cheese? then in this article, this person was like, damn, if it wasn't accurate and specific. 

Robyn: Wow. And it's been around since the second century.

It's not like she just made it up for fun. Exactly. 

Karen: In a way I can see it similar to how people read tea leaves. somehow they're interpreting, they're using visualization to interpret what's going on in someone's life. So [00:24:00] I guess if you really think about it, it's not that different than.

Than tea leaves or coffee grounds, or, other things. It's just we're so used to tarot and astrology, the symbology, the concreteness of those things versus utilizing something so random. I don't know. Lisa, what do you think about this? 

Lisa: I think it's funny that we're like, the cheese is what's making this weird, like this is all weird.

But what I think about this is that I would not take it too seriously. There's a lot of spiritual practices and certain things, and we've discussed a lot of 'em on Woo. News that I maybe would not take too seriously, but I like talking about it and hearing about it, and I would be interested to know what my gouda says about my, I don't know, career.

Like I'd hear that, I'd hear it out for sure. But there's, a sentence in this article and the writer says, look, I'm not saying cheese is psychic. I'm saying, cheese might be a surprisingly [00:25:00] effective mirror. And I think that's what a lot of these tools do for us.

Going back to what we talked about earlier about spirituality being a tool of self-awareness, if this is a tool of self-awareness that you find validation in great, 

Robyn: Another form of tarot. Sure 

Karen: it is. It's a way of using your intuition again, to tap into, someone. It's the same thing.

What do you guys call it when you have an art like a piece of jewelry. What is that called? Oh, a cytometry. cytometry. that's actually a practice where if you have, your grandmother's ring for example an intuitive reader can actually tune into your grandmother. In a way it's a tool, albeit a very strange and odd, 

Lisa: potentially smelly, but Yes. Yeah. Depending on the cheese you pick. I guess that's up to you. I don't know. Yeah, so it's a good one. 

Karen: It's a great one. I love this one. 

Lisa: We're gonna get a little bit creepy and we're gonna talk about the Annabel doll.

Robyn: this is the perfect one to [00:26:00] end this episode with because Wow. can you explain a little bit, 

Lisa: have you guys ever seen the Conjuring movies? 

 

Lisa: Yes, I have not at all ever.

So these films are basically inspired by hauntings, investigated by this couple. The Warrens and the Warrens came through their investigations, came to own a lot of haunted objects, including this famous Anabel doll who is from the seventies. And the Anabel doll is said to have moved and written notes and done.

 All this batshit stuff. Warrens, one of 'em, I think his name was Ed Warren, was a demonologist and he believed that this doll was possessed and evil and there is an evil, something trapped in this doll, and it has to be like, put away. Behind glass. Nobody touch it. Don't taunt it.

Like just stay there. Annabel, being a part of the Warren's collection was [00:27:00] actually taken on tour over the summer and while being on tour The paranormal investigator from the Warrens Society that they founded this guy Dan Rivera, passed away while on tour. So with Annabel, and there was a lot of articles written about it.

Did Annabel do this? Is this doll really cursed, evil, blah, blah, blah. I didn't wanna talk about this and debate his passing or anything like that. there's no autopsy results yet, and we're not here to speculate. But what I found interesting about this and worthy of a discussion for us was, are there evil souls?

Do you believe in evil souls? If there are they demons? Are they just unhealed? I just had a lot of questions that came up from this. Like obviously my personal belief is that this is coincidence. But it brings up the discussion in kind of this wooey way, like what is there evil soul?

Karen: know, and there's talks of [00:28:00] Poltergeist, there's talks of homes being haunted. even in the Catholic church, right? There was a lot about, demonization and things like that. I would love to hear what you guys think and I really was thinking about it myself. I think part of me does believe that there is that.

Capability of really negative energy becoming trapped in things, Like I do believe that's what you feel in a haunted house. That there has been something that's happened there. There's a murder in a place that people can actually feel that because it's an energetic frequency that is almost trapped within a location.

Lisa: do you think? You're picking up on an imprint of what happened or the actual being still there? 

Karen: I think it's an imprint of what's happened. I remember meeting this guy who owned or worked in an antique shop down here in Texas and he could see that, so we lived in a very old town in Dallas, and he could literally walk around that [00:29:00] town square and see where they had d In the town square hundreds of years ago because, he saw it as that trapped energy. He said that a friend of his had a they thought the house was haunted because the front door kept slamming, like literally slamming, and they couldn't figure out why. And he said that he could see the trapped energy of somebody coming through the house and slamming the door, that it was like stuck energy that was there in the home.

So I believe in that and I think that. Certain people are very sensitive to that energy so that I might go into a home and not feel that at all. Whereas you being more sensitive to that energy could feel that. And so this paranormal investigator may have been very tuned into that negative, darker energy frequency because he was that and that was his thing.

That was his hobby. So I could see that having the belief. That this object held that negative energy. I'm sure there was something that caused his demise, I'm sure that there was something physical there, but there could be a connection [00:30:00] energetically to that belief of the negativity that object held and then what happened to him.

 I don't know. What do you guys think? 

Robyn: I think that if we. Can believe that there's positive energy, then I believe there's negative because there is that balance in life in the world. I believe there is always both. We can choose to not focus on the negative or the, in quotes, evil, but I believe that it exists.

And so I think to what you're saying, Karen and what you were saying, Lisa, about potentially spirit or energy being unhealed. Absolutely. I think that, we've had many conversations where we've heard about. Energy or spirit being stuck because it's not healed. And so then it can come across as haunting and so forth.

 And not be ready to cross over to a different realm, let's [00:31:00] say. And you can even, Being alive when you walk into, like you were saying, Karen, certain rooms or even around people, you can feel their energy and sometimes that energy can really stay. That's why, we do things like smudging and so forth to Yeah.

Clear the air. 

Lisa: I'm down with, yeah. Negative energies. I totally get all that. For me, it's more of the. Intention behind it. Maybe 'cause Let's say there's negative energy. Why is it there? Is it just deeply and that's why it's there like That I don't believe in, frankly. To me it is more of an unhealed. 

 kinda aspect. Or Karen, like you were saying, maybe some sort of energetic imprint or whatever, but is there an evil soul demon trapped in this fucking doll? I don't think so. Or could it be 

Robyn: such a concentrated amount of negative energy and therefore, however it [00:32:00] spins out.

 I don't know that it has a soul, I guess is where I'm saying I don't, Like it's not 

Lisa: an entity, a demonic entity. 

Robyn: I hope not. but I would say it could be such a amount of unhealed and negative energy that anything that comes in its way, I don't know.

Does it have intelligence and all of that? these are really good questions, I do believe that there are places you can walk in that feel haunted, And so this doll, let's say, could be haunted in the sense that it could get trapped. Like I think, we think about how. We are such powerful beings and we have energy within us.

Energy all around us. And when we think of like witches, let's say, and how you can use spells which we've talked about together and on the podcast and we are so focused on the good, we're so focused on the transformation. could people manipulate negative energy?

Karen: I think there's so much to it. It's like in that doll for example, the people who went to that, [00:33:00] I don't know, display who, the people who actually went to see this doll probably had this belief. That the doll was evil. So therefore, if you believe it's evil, then that becomes a reality.

It's what you believe, And you get around enough people that are believing in the evil, then that becomes real in a sense, in their reality. was thinking, as you guys were talking about, one of the questions I always had was around this whole exorcism stuff, All these movies that we've seen, right?

 there's a lot of movies, and so there must be a lot of people, fearing or wondering about this too. And as you guys were talking, I'm thinking, of course there is like this whole exorcism thing. It's giving away your power of belief, So you call in the priest to exercise the horrible evil spirit then that's gonna become what you believe is gonna become your reality versus, I think there's, what we were saying before, it's like what you choose to believe.

So not that again, we go back to what we were saying before where we bypass. bad stuff. But [00:34:00] it's not giving the power away to the fact that there's this entity that can control. You that can control your energy, that could take over your body. I just don't believe that's true.

but 

Robyn: I wouldn't 

Lisa: sleep 

Robyn: in the same room with that 

Lisa: doll. That doll looks creepy. like haunted or not, that doll is creepy free. 

Karen: And how about that? I have no doubt that there's evil. Like evil Yes. in it, but whether it has power to kill you agree. No I 

Robyn: totally agree and I will say that I have been witness to.

 Practitioners that I very much believe in who have been trained shamanically and have really helped move spirit and entities into other realms because they have been trapped. I've seen it, I've felt the energy and I know how serious they take what they're doing and wanting to protect.

People they love and they've literally have their own rituals in order to [00:35:00] do that. And so trust them. So I believe that there, there is truth to this concentrated amount of energy or spirit that may be unhealed and needs to move on and needs help. I, all of it is a cry for help and attention, even if we deem it evil.

I was gonna say. 

Karen: Yeah, I think about Elizabeth Furest for example, who has done so much energy work on us, and she talks about trapped energy in the body, So it goes to show you, there's so much we don't know, and there's six degrees of separation in all of this for that reason.

But, disease, all those things can be called trapped energy, So I think there's something to what we're talking about is it's trapped. Energy that's negative. I think that's what I would call it. but that it doesn't have the power to just jump out of a doll No.

 And kill us. That Maybe I'm wrong, 

Lisa: no, Karen, you're not. I just, I can't, that doesn't happen. 

 , bringing it back to the 3D for a minute, celebrity Psychic, Matt Frazier [00:36:00] had made a video about this because apparently a comedian, Matt Rife bought the Warren's home and museum. And he was saying he's gonna open it back up to the public.

You can stay the night there in this haunted shit, whatever. And this celebrity psychic was like don't do that. I am worried about that. And to bring it back to the 3D, he had an analogy, it's like giving the negativity, it feeds off the negativity. It's like a bully for example. Yes. What he said, you keep engaging and keep doing the stuff with the bully and it just makes them more empowered.

And I'm not trying to personify whatever energy may or may not be here, but like, to me that kind of clicked in that way. Yeah. Yeah. You're just, if you think about it just in terms, anything that you're giving your energy to, you are feeding. So if Karen, like you were saying, if you do truly believe like this doll is and downright [00:37:00] evil, then how could that not affect you as a person?

 I don't know. It's just 

Karen: crazy. Last thing I'll say, just because you just said that. It makes me wonder too, if then you're in that haunted house, right? You believe that it's haunted. You're scared. That's true. It's haunted, so therefore it's gonna just exasperate that feeling.

Maybe you'll even see things because if you are intuitive at all, you'll be able to see that energy and then that will affirm that it's haunted. So I could see how that could really. Exasperate and grow that even though it maybe is just the imprint, right? You're seeing it, but it's just because how you're energetically interacting with it that it has that impact.

So cool. So interesting. in so many ways. I love. 

Lisa: We have some wild ones today. Yeah, we 

Robyn: really did. Wow. Thank you for finding them, Lisa. And thank you all for listening and being interested. Like we are. We're gonna continue to do these [00:38:00] because there are so many different aspects. Of Woo that we love to explore together and with all of you.

So thank you. And you'll find all of these links in the show notes and we'll be back with more soon. Thank you guys. Thanks Robyn. You.