How to Heal When Life Falls Apart (and Reclaim Your Power) - Episode 191

This conversation is medicine.

Meet Hope Firsel -- a certified life and divorce coach, and women’s empowerment guide whose story is one of unimaginable challenges, resilience, and profound personal transformation.

Hope has faced:

• Years of infertility and loss
• A Stage 3 colon cancer diagnosis
• The end of an 18-year marriage

Hope shares how her most painful moments became the doorway to her life’s purpose—and how she now helps other women heal and rebuild from the inside out. Using tools like Rapid Resolution Therapy, Internal Family Systems, and small group coaching, she creates safe spaces for healing and clarity.

In this episode, we talk about:

• How to keep going when you feel like everything’s falling apart
• The magic of Rapid Resolution Therapy + Internal Family Systems
• Co-parenting after divorce (the real stuff)
• Creating new beginnings in midlife
• Why “You’re not broken” might just be your new life mantra

Whether you’re in the middle of a storm or coming out of one, this episode will speak to your soul.

CONNECT WITH HOPE
Website: https://hopefirsel.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hopefirsel

Visit seekingcentercommunity.com for more with Robyn + Karen and many of the guides on Seeking Center: The Podcast. You'll get access to live weekly sessions, intuitive guidance, daily inspiration, and a space to share your journey with like-minded people who just get it.

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 1:03 How to Heal When Life Falls Apart (and Reclaim Your Power)

Transcript

Robyn: [00:00:00] I'm Robyn Miller Brecker and I'm Karen Loenser. Welcome to Seeking Center, the podcast. Join us each week as we have the conversations and we, through the spiritual and holistic clutter for you, we'll boil it down to what you need to know now, we're all about total wellness, which to us needs building a healthy life.

Karen: On a physical, mental, and spiritual level, we'll talk to the trailblazers who'll introduce you to the practices, products, and experiences that may be just what you need to hear about to transform your life. If you're listening to this, it's no accident. Think of this as your seeking center and your place to seek your center.

Robyn: And for the best wellness and spiritual practitioners, experts, products, experiences, and inspo, visit theseekingcenter. com. If you're at a time in your life that feels heavy you're going to connect so deeply with today's guest. Hope Lutz Firsel has lived through some of life's biggest challenges, years of infertility and loss before becoming a mom through surrogacy, a stage three [00:01:00] colon cancer diagnosis just three years later, and the end of her 18 year marriage.

Those experiences could have left her broken, but instead they shaped her into the resilient, purpose-driven woman she is today. Now as a certified life coach, divorce specialist, and women's empowerment guide, hope helps other women move through their own seasons of heartbreak and transition with tools like Rapid Resolution Therapy, internal family systems, and her passion for small group coaching.

She creates spaces where women can discover their strength. Find clarity and step into what's next. Her message is simple, but so powerful. You're not broken, you are resilient, and you are capable of creating your destiny. It's such an honor to have you here today. Hi, hope 

Hope: The honor is mine.

I'm so privileged to be here and I'm such a fan of your work, so thank you for the opportunity. 

Robyn: I've been blessed to know you for so many years, cannot, and I 

Karen: have [00:02:00] heard about you for so long, hope that finally, to be able to meet you it's an honor and even in just listening to that open that Robyn just shared with us I think in the seeking center world, we would say you signed up for a lot of stuff in this lifetime, girl.

right. 

Hope: By 50 to have gone through all that. Yeah. 

Karen: tell us about your journey and at the end of the day, like what have you learned as a result of that experience and about your life's purpose. 

Robyn: Yeah. 

Karen: What are 

Robyn: those threads that connect them? 

Hope: For me, I think that facing infertility for five years and then I was a cancer patient 15 years ago for about another five years.

 And then I got back to life and things didn't quite fit and my marriage crumbled as well. So I've learned that through all of that, there is resilience. That I am way stronger than I ever dreamed possible. And I think actually sometimes it teaches me, I'm glad I didn't know exactly what was ahead of me.

[00:03:00] Yes, totally. I always 

Karen: say thank God we don't get a crystal ball. 

Hope: . Okay. 'cause at the Seeking Center I was worried you would say No, we gotta like tune into that. But sometimes, yeah, just to be able to look now at those decades of pain and it never ends. Now I'm helping my parents as they, go into their elder age.

So this is all part of the learning process I have learned. Above all though, resilience, I have learned how fragile life is and relationships that nothing is to be taken for granted. And I have learned that love is the most powerful gift of all. 

Robyn: Oh my God, that makes me wanna cry You are right. And you've lived it and yeah, I think about those days when you were going through infertility and I think about the days that you were going through the cancer journey, and then obviously more recently with divorce, and I think what you just said that you [00:04:00] are stronger than you ever thought possible.

Karen: Can I just ask that question too, hope as you're speaking this? I think back in my own life too I went through a divorce. I nursed a child through cancer. I had those moments where I was like, I can't do this. . I was sure I couldn't. So how did you feel in those moments?

Did you feel like you would be strong enough to get through them? 

Hope: During the cancer I did. I was so mentally strong during that. I let go of the body almost and let myself trust the doctors and my caregivers. And I just really was like, I can do this. I can do this. I didn't let my, I don't think, break down too much, but divorce has been really hard. And it's ongoing when you're co-parenting. So that's one that I keep learning from, And each experience just allows you to go deeper and deeper. It breaks you open to a new realm of knowing yourself, your capabilities, it pushes you. And so I've definitely been pushed in ways I [00:05:00] never thought possible.

And here I am, 

Robyn: Yeah. And you say all the time, you're not broken, which is such a powerful message. Why does that truth matter so much, especially when you're going through these times? 

Hope: I really learned that in the cancer journey, I would say in the infertility, there was a lot of feeling broken, a lot of self shame in the cancer journey, I really just listened to a lot of meditations and I just kept telling myself, I'm breathing. That's a gift. I'm here, I'm hugging my babies even if I'm not out there running around with them, but I'm home hugging them. I would just kept finding the gifts, going to chemo's really odd because you wanna go get your medicine yet, they're gonna, rip you open again.

Just even finding gratitude in the medicine. And so that's what I do with my clients now is really in any moment if your heart's beating, if your eyes open, we can find gratitude and focusing on that is usually a really good place to [00:06:00] start. 

Karen: You specialize now in divorce, that's one of your specialties.

And we've talked a lot on our podcast about grief and grieving people. Are still alive is a whole different game when somebody leaves you. And I'm reflecting too on what you said about your cancer diagnosis and even the infertility. It's like you were able to walk that journey because it was happening to you.

It wasn't anything that you caused. I think when you look at divorce sometimes, I myself, it feels like a bit of a failure. It feels like I could have done something to prevent this. I could have. done something else. And I think a lot of people feel that way when their marriages don't work out.

Can you talk about how that grieving process for you and how do you tell people how to deal with that? How do you move forward with that grief and 

Robyn: specifically with the grieving somebody that's still alive? 

Hope: it's definitely the hardest part . A lot of my clients, I will say.

 Are already very [00:07:00] disconnected by the time they get to me. So sometimes it's not their person anymore. And they've let go. But more often than not, I'm talking to people even before they announce that they want a divorce because it takes women five years on average. It takes people about five years once you start thinking about it till it happens.

And 70% of the divorces are initiated by women. 

 And 

my practice would showcase that I have a lot of clients who are in this, should I, shouldn't I phase for a long time, years and years. And I just share that because some of them have already grieved. For myself it was a mutual decision and there was no wrong, and we had tried everything to stay as a unit, so I didn't think I would grieve as much as I did.

But I had a good year of being in a fawn position. We all think of like fight or flight. And what happened to me, and I've seen [00:08:00] it with a lot of my clients, is really this spa position where I certainly got up and I got dressed every day and took the kids to school, but I really had a hard time doing much more.

I was so bedridden with sadness and mourning and coming to realize that unit is no more. I had a friend say nobody died, or something of this nature. This friend, oh, only a couple months ago, said this and I was like, but no, it did that energy field of that union of us and one home as one family is no longer.

And you have to mourn that, and that's been the vision for me. It was for 20 years of, that's how we were gonna. Move through life. So even psychologically stopping that initial feedback to call, to text to be part of is it takes time. It really does. 

Karen: And it is a death, it's a death of a dream.

It's a death of things that you've built together. It's a death of love. course [00:09:00] it is the most painful thing to go through. 

Hope: Yeah. it truly is. And what I try to teach myself and my clients is that time you shared is still there, right? Because if we're in the work that we are, we know that time and space is really created by us humans, but it doesn't really exist.

So me as a bride in that time, at that date, I was madly in love and we were a unit. And that is and will always be that and I'm not gonna have regrets or shame because I was really happy and it was beautiful. Everything has its moment. Seasons change. change.

Things change. And like you had said though, death is, divorce is a decision. So there can be this. Self-talk around what else could I have done a lot of blaming on the other. 

Karen: Yeah. And I just feel that so many people. Get lost in their own lives [00:10:00] by trying to fix something that is broken on the other side.

I love the fact too, that you're people grow through those choices. Because I always say too, marriage is an opportunity to grow and sometimes there is the opportunity to stay together sometimes. The choice of leaving can seem the better one.

Yes. Rather than staying and really looking at what can I do to grow further here? Is there anything else that I can do before I leave? But then the courage and bravery that it takes to make that decision to, if it is your decision to actually leave, because nine times outta 10, it really impacts.

Many more people than you and your partner. Your kids in-laws, friends. It's a big impact on everybody's lives. So I can see why people stay and how fearful it can be to Yes. Make the choice to leave. 

Hope: Yeah. It is a huge decision. It is one, never to be taken lightly and, it is a new life.

It is definitely a new chapter [00:11:00] and grieving that, being your person is typically what's really hard. And, I had been with my ex-husband since I was 25, so I really went almost from grad school to living with him. A little bit of time there alone, but. You start handing over responsibilities.

So learning how to manage the budget and paying the bills and being on a timely manner with all of that was never my skillset. So that was really overwhelming for me, and it is for a lot of my clients. What I find interesting is even the professionals, my clients who are divorced lawyers themselves, or accountants or doctors, I find a lot of women.

Even if they're bringing in even more than perhaps their partner, they still, a lot of women hand that off. And there's no shame in that. It's just owning that and learning that. Okay. And giving yourself grace. ' cause if you're just learning to manage a home raise children without a partner and, try to get back in the workforce or maybe [00:12:00] up your game in the workforce, who knows? You're just starting over everywhere. And so to take on these new skill sets, like managing a budget, being an accountant, being a disciplinarian, if that wasn't your thing, keeping the house updated if that wasn't your thing, is a lot.

And it can be overwhelming. And that's why I love my group work because a lot of us are in the same place regardless of where we sit in the world or where we are in our divorce or in our. New life, there's still a commonality for those that have stood in those shoes. Oh 

Robyn: totally. And I would think too, in that space, the fact that many times if you have children, especially, you have to continue to have a with that person and you're seeing them in a light. So how does that work 

Hope: it's really hard. Someone once said it's like if you're in high school and you are in lab with a partner that is your least favorite person in the school or maybe even triggers you. And you have to [00:13:00] be in a lab with them, so it's really hard. My one advice is there's apps that I really recommend and having an app where you're communicating.

together through that, and you're also storing medical documents in the calendar and you get into a system. It used to be for really high conflict divorces, but I think it's a really good idea for most families, because just managing even the bills is hard. And so it's like you're left.

After this horrible breakup, perhaps, perhaps the biggest love of your life and now you are left to deal with calendars, discipline and money. What could go wrong, right? 

Karen: I'm just thinking too, in your situation with your infertility trying to have your children and then the cancer, at least you had people to walk the walk with you.

You had doctors and specialists on the journey. I feel like the journey of divorce is you're very much alone on that. Yeah, [00:14:00] 

roby: no, you're right. You don't just 

Karen: have anybody. You might have friends who've walked the walk, but it's very personal. 

Hope: Yes, very. that's why I love my work sometimes I'm in a constant dialogue with some people,

I have 

a woman that's leaving an abusive relationship and this is no joke. This is, really serious stuff. I don't wanna be out of touch. So right now I'm in the weeds with a lot of my. Clients and a lot of the divorce recovery work I'm doing is people are living great lives and looking to go even further, rebuild even greater, dream, even bigger.

So it's not always that I'm working with people that are in the thrust of the divorce. I do really enjoy the divorce recovery work as well. 

Robyn: I know we're gonna talk a little bit about some of the other tools and practices that you work with. When you're helping your different clients, but I also wanna just acknowledge the fact that, as we grow, and I think about all of your different experiences and when you're in partnership.

sometimes you [00:15:00] grow together, And other times you do grow apart. Because I'm thinking about it energetically. Frequencies change. and there is no judgment on that in the sense of no one's necessarily better than the other. It just changes. And so therefore, as I thinking back to.

 When you first got married, let's say, and the energy that was there and how that has changed over time. And it's 50% of people get divorced, right? So to me and for so many various reasons,

and I think about it from a soul perspective. That this whole journey and this whole experience most likely was on purpose. Like you were supposed to play these roles for each other so that you can grow as soul. 

Hope: yes. And if you pick your partner, at a different point in your life and you've evolved and change and that was a lesson to be learned about.

Very often a childhood relationship with one of your parents that you've worked through, or you know the universe and you did the [00:16:00] work and then you're ready to evolve and maybe be alone for a while, maybe find another partner, who knows. But I think it's rare that you find a great couple that really are gonna evolve from their youth until they're, and we live so long now, we have to honor the divorce process. And I do believe, and the professionals I work with are all committed to that, to helping families go through divorce with less shame, with less tragedy, saving time and money when we can. There's a lot of work being done here actually in Boca Raton where we work.

This collaborative movement and a lot of mediation work, so we stay out of the courtrooms and we save families money and time and stress and anger if we can. 

Karen: where were you when I was gonna say 

Robyn: I love that you're having this conversation together, Karen and Hope, because I know Karen, has walked this walk too.

And it was at a different time, right? So there weren't all these tools and there wasn't so much [00:17:00] dialogue around it. We also didn't have the technology we have so that you could have these conversations so easily and have the resources. 

Karen: Yeah. And you're, and you bring up something I think that's so important to mention is that regardless if it was your idea to initiate the divorce, it was mutual or it was.

Inflicted upon you. There is so much guilt and shame especially that goes with that. I remember being a single mom with my daughter and joining the homeroom moms and many of them, were stay at home moms. I was a working divorce mom and there was very much. A stigma that was associated with that.

 And I come from a very Catholic family and so there's all, with two priest uncles, so there's a lot that you carry in addition to that. Not to mention wanting to shelter your children and make sure you have the best possible relationship with your ex spouse so that. Can at least be a nurtured and good relationship between the two of you.

So there's just between the shame and the [00:18:00] guilt and then the grief as we've talked about, the anger. it is really going through all of the death emotions. Yes. at least when I was going through it, there wasn't the support. So everything that you're doing, hope is just so important.

You're giving back to people what you know, you've experienced. And I have a feeling from a soul perspective. That's what you signed up for. 

Hope: It's so healing for myself and I have coached countless women, and hearing them have hope again is really my greatest joy. 

Robyn: , And let's talk about some of the tools that you do use, like rapid resolution therapy.

For those who've never heard of it, can you break that down a little bit and tell us how that works? 

Hope: Yeah, so I took a course with John Connolly and his rapid resolution therapy came after working with abused patients and people that have really seen horrific things. And what I got from the course, 'cause, you take different things, but from my [00:19:00] training is that sometimes with psychology, we have our patients come and talk about the.

Depth of the pain and sit in it. And sit in it and , I almost imagine opening a scar. Or a wound and then send, after an hour oop and tossing you back into the world raw and open. And then you come back and you have to sit there for years and years and go through this.

And his whole notion was maybe not, And so what can we do really quickly and how do we own the process with our client, not just let them go through it? So he uses guided meditation and really allows people to become. Open and then goes back to where a self-limiting belief may have been started.

Oftentimes in childhood and tries to understand and give compassion to where that behavior, or in life coaching we call the gremlin, but where that came from and in a calm state, we can understand why we thought [00:20:00] that and why we use that tool. And now we're an adult and now we have different tools available to us.

And so through really two or three sessions, he has incredible success. Really changing that thought pattern. 

Robyn: It sounds like a lot of inner child work. It does, 

Hope: yeah. But he doesn't you to sit in there. He wants you to see it, acknowledge it, and create a new pattern of thought. 

Robyn: Yeah. 

Hope: So it's good. It's a lot of what I learned in Ipec where I had gotten my life coaching degree. But I love the rapid idea and I love how you don't need to sit in your pain necessarily to recover. 

Robyn: Yeah. Because you're acknowledging it. When you think about it, you've sat in that. pain. 

So if there's a way, it's I like the way that you put it it's almost like to me, like pulling out a splinter. 

Karen: I was literally thinking like your trauma. Can be like hearing a backpack of rocks. Or an airplane. 

Robyn: An [00:21:00] airplane. 

Karen: But unless you find a way to release that, yeah, it's going to stay with you and potentially impact future relationships that you have.

Doing this work of really, resolving the trauma as best you can and replacing that and really understanding what maybe some of those core beliefs that you have about relationships or unraveling the belief now that you have about yourself and relationships as a result of the divorce is so important to be able to move forward and leave that grief behind.

Hope: And a lot of the women just need to give them self permission, the shame or the guilt. Yeah. It's about having compassion for yourself and loving yourself and seeing yourself and knowing why you made the choices that you made or why you stayed in a relationship that you may have stayed in, and really begin to understand.

Who that was, that person. And that's where the internal family system model is really great. 'cause it talks about all the different [00:22:00] pieces that coexist within you. 

Karen: Can you talk a little bit about that? I'd love to hear more 

Hope: Yeah. I have a new mentor that I've met here in.

Since I relocated to Florida, that's from New York and we've been collaborating and a lot of her work comes from internal family systems model. And I'm starting my official training this spring. I'm accepted into a cohort and they've only just started to allow coaches in. The model is really about all the different pieces that exist within us.

So for instance, going through a divorce, there may be the sadness. Of what won't be and the letting go. And there's also the anger of who that person isn't and didn't show up to be, or anger at ourself for who we allowed ourselves to be. And then there's the fear, and then there might be excitement.

And all of that is true at one time. Wow. And when you look at it from a family perspective. Think about that within [00:23:00] the one person, and then bring the partner and then bring the kids, and then bring their lawyers, and then bring the accountants. And you really do have the makings of a big tornado.

 Oh yeah. 

Karen: I'm aware, 

Hope: yeah. You've lived through the storm. Yeah. 

Even with the best intentions, I have a new friend here a criminal attorney, and he's a divorce attorney see good people during bad times. As a criminal attorney, I see bad people on their best behavior in their good times, if you will, when they're meeting with their lawyer, trying to,

Robyn: yeah, 

Hope: but they're not good people.

But in divorce, you are dealing with some of the best people, but it makes people crazy. It really does, think about. The harm that is inflicted on people during breakups and divorce. 

Robyn: Totally. It drives you to a completely different mental state

Karen: It was an aha for me about how many different emotions can hit you at one time, whereas most of the other [00:24:00] traumatic things I can think of, it's one emotion. Shock, whatever.

But this, you're right. there is all of the. And it's all negative emotions. It's the whole spectrum of the negative emotions all at the same time. And if you're a parent, from my perspective, it's then sucking it all in because you don't wanna harm your child. And putting on a mask of almost a different persona because you want your child to be okay or you don't want your ex-spouse to see. The depth of the emotions that you're dealing with, you wanna come across as strong. 

Robyn: I would imagine not having gone through it, , in the best case scenario, you're really looking out for your child.

There are other times I would think, with all your emotion or you're dealing with a partner who's just so angry. Just so angry they can't even do that at that point. Yeah, because that combustion in a way, yeah. 

Karen: That is a great word. Combustion. That's what, and you're dealing with 

Robyn: then maybe one parent is really looking out and the other one's not, because there's so much emotion.

 [00:25:00] Listen, 

Hope: it's so hard, and I'm a divorce coach and I could definitely tell you the things I've done wrong, and would do different if I could with my children and the experience. It's just, it's very hard and you have to love your kids more than you hate your ex for sure.

Yeah. 

Karen: It's true because the triggers continue long after the divorce papers are signed, That's true. They can go on for the lifetime of your child, 

Hope: And it goes dormant and then there's college and all of a sudden, there's a wedding, God willing, or, this stuff there's always gonna be God willing Christmas vacation or New Year's and 

Karen: Or you're doing the co-parenting, but then you can't do that necessarily as a collaborative unit anymore. They have their own way and maybe they've moved on and have. Other families. Yes. Other people are now being included in your child's life.

So that's part of it. And the child support, there's so many opportunities, even under the best circumstances. Those triggers to resurface. 

roby: Yes, 

Robyn: absolutely. Hundred 

roby: percent. 

Robyn: How do you use internal [00:26:00] family systems? I know you're gonna be learning more about that, but how do you believe you would use that within the coaching?

Hope: I use it all the time by allowing my clients to acknowledge these different pieces of themselves in this space, of this experience. In talking nice to yourself. Oh, I see you. Yeah. You're angry. I get it. . And that's where I work with them. Okay. I'm gonna give you five minutes.

Just let it out. Just go. Now we're gonna shut that door and training them to do that with themselves, maybe with journaling or, I like this mini ceremonies or rituals that they might create for themselves. And you allow that piece of you to be heard. And she. Okay, now we're gonna listen to my sad piece, for instance.

And guess what? We're gonna take a nap and put on a mask and just understand how to feed all these different pieces of you to acknowledge that they exist and to also know that we can only hold one thought at a [00:27:00] time so we can consciously see them and move on, and all that.

Self-doubt or the blame is okay. I hear you. You talk nicely to yourself. I see you. I know that's coming up and I'll get to you in a bit. Right now, I'm in my, right now We're in my happy place and I'm really in with my child right now. Whatever it it's conscious living. 

Robyn: makes sense. 

Karen: It's learning mindfulness in a completely new way.

Robyn: It's, 

Karen: But again, and I really can say this truthfully, I'm grateful for going on the journey. It's like you were saying before, hope I'm grateful for my daughter. I'm grateful for learning what it's like to literally be living on my own.

I had never lived on my own. Until I got divorced. So that was the first time. And so rather than looking at all those things that happened to me, it's like we always say it happened for me because I became much. A much stronger person, and I was able to be a role model for my daughter that I think would've been different if I had stayed [00:28:00] at home.

And I'm actually proud of that experience, and I do believe in my heart that my journey was something that I did choose for this lifetime or that I knew I would have that opportunity to learn because. sure don't judge people after you've gone, you've walked that walk. I remember growing up and people talking about, oh, that woman's divorced, or, and putting labels on people.

And gosh, once you've gone through things like that yourself, you never do that again. 

roby: Oh, yes, very true. 

Karen: Let's talk about some of the tools that you share with your clients. So if somebody feels completely overwhelmed what's a tool a that you suggest to help them get from that?

I can't handle this too. I got this. 

Hope: Oftentimes I'll use guided meditation. 

And allow them to learn tools to focus on their breath. To close their eyes, to choose a color that feels right and allowing them even in their car, even in the shower, allowing just two [00:29:00] minutes, five minutes after practicing with me, they learn how to do it.

so first and foremost is putting their attention to their breath and getting calm. And that's where we start. And then talking to ourselves about. Where are we in that moment? And it's acknowledging, okay, my anxiety has taken over right now. I see you. I hear you. And how do you feed your anxiety?

You should know how to care for yourself like you did If you ever had children when they were toddlers, okay, you're anxious, I know what's good for you. You take a walk for five minutes and you breathe in and out, and you choose those colors and then you are ready to sit down and make strategic decisions.

So by working with the coach, you learn what are your skill sets that will allow you to thrive during the hard times. And learning that is where the gold is. It wasn't just that I went through these experiences like being a cancer patient or having a surrogate [00:30:00] mother. Or divorce, I think it was when I was in those places, I reached out to a lot of different experts and I found wisdom from a lot of different places.

 So it's not just my coaching or rapid resolution therapy or internal family systems, it's also coming to truth with my client and allowing them to find what services them best. And that's why it's so beautiful to partner with you guys because you have such a array of professionals for them to tap into that hopefully will bring them peace, It may be through meditation as you guys have with your community or it, it may be art, it may be walking, it may be trying to talk to those that have passed. Everybody's gonna find their own. Peace and if we allow them the tools to slow down and see what works for them. 

Robyn: And just even you sharing your story today is helpful, right? Like just reminding people it's inspiring, right? So it's teaching them those [00:31:00] tools and then knowing others have walked the walk and they can too. 

Karen: and I think one of the most important tools or things that I learned very early on is the most toxic thing that you can hold onto from a divorce or, a severed relationship like that is blame.

 Blame was something that I was holding onto in the very beginning Because of you, now I have to do this, or because of you, I have to drop my daughter off at the airport with you on Christmas Eve Of course, it's very easy to get into that, when things are hard as a single person or divorced person.

 To justify your thoughts of blame, it feels slightly empowering. And yet at the same time, it's the most toxic thing to hold onto. So using some of these tools to figure out ways to just release that release as much as possible. The blame game I think could be the most healing 

Hope: Yes. And I had a great coach that helped me with that and to not blame, but to learn from it, who was I in the [00:32:00] face of this? What decisions did I make? What did I allow? Really learning about yourself. 'cause as you said, you're just, you're gonna repeat the same things unless you learn from this experience.

Robyn: It's really starting to look at it at as this opportunity to get to know who you really are and deeply. Yes. you've mentioned a few times about your small group coaching, and you also mentioned the one-on-one. What happens in that small group and in that circle that feels different than the one-on-one?

Hope: Yeah. Thank you. I think that the group work, it allows healing to happen significantly quicker. It's in community and I work with just women, so bringing women together and I'm really excited about my virtual groups. That I'm launching with a partner. And the beauty of that is that it's not necessarily women that you're gonna see at the grocery store or in your neighborhood.

It's nice when you have similarities, [00:33:00] but you're not in the same state and that you can connect from your closet or the car or the lunch room at work. So virtual is really nice in that way and. I'm really excited about that and my in-person in South Florida, I am partnering with Barbara Bennett, and she's been hosting these groups in New York for over a decade, so I'm really excited about partnering with her and bringing them to South Florida.

I love virtual for the reason of being anonymous, in person has its own specialty to it, and that touching and feeling and being local could serve as an incredible way to make new friends and new communities. So yeah, I just love my group work. 

Robyn: And I would imagine either way, you're finding people who are really going through the same thing at the same time, and so you don't feel as alone, which I think, Karen, you brought up like this journey.

I was 

Karen: literally just gonna say that I think when you go through a divorce, you do [00:34:00] feel like you're alone. You feel like you're the only one who's experienced it before. You know that you're not, but it is one of the most lonely. Times in life, and you don't always feel I didn't have anybody to talk to.

I was very young when I got divorced and some of my friends weren't even married yet, so I felt like I had no one. the only one I could talk to with my grandmother, believe it or not, who had gone through a divorce. And so this idea of being able to have someone else who's walked the walk, maybe not exactly the same, but who has those same feelings, that has got to be such a gift.

Robyn: Yeah. It is. Let's also talk about the spiritual aspect. we've alluded to a little bit of it, and I was just even thinking about how really at the top of this, you talked about from a seeking center perspective. A lot of what we do is somewhat looking ahead right where we can, and how we said if you knew you're not so sure you would've walked this journey.

 [00:35:00] But I wanna ask you, I've obviously, I've known you throughout so many of these different experiences and I know how open you are to exploring. Things from a spiritual perspective. And I would ask too now, and I don't know how recently you have looked back you don't need it 'cause you are resilient, you are moving forward.

But it's in a way it could be so validating to say, if you talk to our resident astrologer, Stevie Calista and you say look at my birth chart. What were some of my tenets of my soul journey? And then you talked to a Michelle Nolan who does tarot therapy, and she can look at a journey.

is that helpful in terms of looking at those threads? 

Hope: Yeah. Of course it depends on the seeker, right? And what are they seeking? I would definitely say if time. And money were not an issue. Me personally, when I am in those journeys, I would take it all, I would want everything, because when I was, facing life or death, I [00:36:00] took on western and eastern philosophies and doctors and shaman healers and, believe in it all.

And I think again, when you have a client and you can get them centered so they can really figure out. What's speaking to them, right? What's their language? What's gonna be most meaningful for them? 

Robyn: And would you say too, that because you've, again, we've talked about spirituality for so long just in our lives, that understanding of there's more to ourselves than just this body and that idea of energy, which we've talked about.

Has that been helpful along with. The guided meditation and all of that, but just that understanding. 

Hope: Yeah. The minute you receive a cancer diagnosis, you really never look at life the same. It's just a different experience. And what became really true to me that I try to instill in my clients is that.

Everything is fleeting. This is just a moment in time, and if you live [00:37:00] to 110, there's still gonna be morning. there was more to see and more to do if you're that lucky. But in the end, , no matter what we all believe, what I do know to be true is the way people feel about you. When they think about you, your essence becomes alive again.

 love is eternal. So how I make people feel, what impact I have on them is what I will leave behind. And so that really honestly motivates everything I do. 

Karen: We talk so often about these crossroad moments in life, which now you've had your share of those, but they are opportunities if you can just reach far enough to see them for what they are.

They are opportunities to learn and to grow and to. Achieve and overcome. Like you were saying, you're not broken. Many of us feel that way in that moment that we just don't have the courage or strength to get through it. And yet those are the very moments [00:38:00] where we can learn who we are and why we're here.

And that's clearly the path that you've taken. Hope, you've taken all of these little morsels and pulled them together so that you can really see people and fully understand. Where they are on that journey, and that's the best kind of coach, helper, teacher, advisor there can be.

Karen: Yeah. Thank you. 

Hope: Yeah. I've had so many wonderful mentors that I've worked with it's my honor to now give it back. 

Robyn: I wanted to ask you if there were any specific practices or even books that helped you along. This journey within these different transitions and that you've had to go through.

Hope: I really love this from broken to badass. This has been one of my favorites and it's really taken off of what we just talked about, the Internal Family Systems model. What I'm really into right now is the badass of me. Who's coming out of that storm? [00:39:00] So I love that.

But when I was, for instance, laying in bed and your body's failing you at that moment Marco's Union is just I loved that. It's just background music that just made me feel that I am. A source of energy, even if I am still here. And something that just resonated with me energetically.

So I've never heard of that. 

Karen: I haven't either. I'm gonna be looking that up. I'm broken to badass. I haven't heard that one either, but that sounds like a must have, must read. 

Hope: Yeah, those are two of my favorites. And this rebuilding that I'm really into. So what we talked about is, 'cause I am, about five years outta my divorce.

And so the divorce rebuilding group is where I'm so excited about. 'cause it's now what? Let's go, where are we headed? 

so even on this upcoming. A virtual support group. I'm gonna ask everyone to bring one thing they're grateful for that they have now of the breakup or the divorce.

It may be as silly [00:40:00] as. I get to sleep with it really cold in my bedroom. I don't need to watch football all day, whatever it may be for you. And you bring that even if you say your heart has been dumped and you feel like the lesser of 'em, there's still gonna be something good about this.

So let's talk about it. 

Robyn: Who's the rebuilding by? 

Hope: Bruce Fisher. he has 19 steps in here in the program. I think it's 40 years old and been taught around the world, and in this rebuilding concept , he was, I think rock climber.

And it's a lot about climbing almost 19 different steps, which start with the letting go. And the releasing the anger and the shame and the blame, and then it's a curriculum, and then it's the reclaiming and the rediscovering and manifesting something new that was never possible when you were a part of that union.

So to mourn it and then to transform like a butterfly and really the options are endless, 

Robyn: gosh I'll [00:41:00] ask one last question but my gosh, I have so much just to close with too. But what's the biggest shift that you hope? It's funny 'cause we used the word hope and obviously that's your name and it's so on purpose that it can make me cry.

 But what's the biggest shift that you hope that women feel after working with you?

Hope: Confidence and peace. We all deserve peace. 

Robyn: Oh, I'm gonna cry now because I love you so much. And just to see. All that you've been through and all that you are doing, and the fact that you are really one of the most resilient people that I know in my life, and to see all the good that you are bringing to so many women.

Anybody listening today who needs a little bit of hope, I love that, and a little bit of direction and guidance. [00:42:00] And now they can really contact you for those next steps. And you are a living, breathing example of just so much strength. And love, i'm so proud to be your friend. I love you so much, and thank you for sharing all of this. And I know Karen has words too, because it's been, I think, so therapeutic for the two of us to have this conversation with you on so many different levels. Oh my God.

Hope: Yeah. It's so beautiful and for me to be able to service your professionals because they're hearing all of these stories and all of this drama, and they're channeling it and they need releases, and they. Face illness and they have divorced and they have aging parents, so you know. So true.

They need their own release, right? Because we are souls and we're people. Exactly. 

Robyn: Yeah. 

Karen: I think that anybody [00:43:00] lucky enough to listen to this conversation so that they can meet you. Hope is gonna find that hope word keeps coming back because I think. this just reminded me about my own journey and is taking me back to those moments where I felt so alone and like there was just no one who could understand.

 What I was going through and did feel hopeless at that time in my life and not knowing how I was gonna make it. The fact that there are people like you who are willing to continue on that journey of helping those, going through that trauma that you still remember in your own life, that you're able to hold their hand and guide them at that time when they need it the most.

I can't think of a. better vocation and I can't think of anything more meaningful to both you and those people who are lucky enough to be with you. So thank you for this story. I know so many are going to relate to this in their own way and. I know we'll wanna work with you, so thank you again for sharing.

Thank you. 

Robyn: thank you. Thank you for fighting. Thank you [00:44:00] for being here. Literally. Yes. 

Hope: And really, if the listeners, sometimes it can be overwhelming to think how do I do that? And so it's important for everyone to know that there have been plenty of days where. I do give my permission to lay myself permission to lay in bed or to keep the shades down.

There are days where it is overwhelming. So not to judge ourselves, but just to love ourselves through it and have self-compassion is really important. 

Robyn: Thank you. And if you are interested in learning more about working with Hope, you can visit Hope firsel.com and we'll have that in our show notes.

She has so many different offerings and ways that she can help guide you, so definitely check that out. Thank you. 

Hope: Thank you 

Robyn: both.