Marketing the right way in today’s noisy world with Tash Corbin

In this episode I talk with Tash Corbin about heart-centered, consent-driven marketing. We explore what it means, why it matters so much and what you can do to make sure that you're marketing 'the right way' in a noisy world.

Tash Corbin is a business mentor, specialising in consent-driven, heart-centred marketing. She hosts the Heart-Centred Business Podcast, and supports entrepreneurs from start-up to scaling.

Tune in to hear all about marketing your business in a heart-centred, consent-driven way.

Learn more about Tash:
tashcorbin.com

Connect with me

Website: www.newschoolofmarketing.com
Facebook: @newschoolofmarketing
Facebook group: @newschoolofmarketing
Instagram: @bianca_mckenzie

Work with me:

🟠 NEW SCHOOL OF MARKETING BUSINESS CLUB: a supportive, action-focused community where business owners get weekly coaching, expert feedback, and co-working sessions to stay consistent, accountable, and strategic with their marketing—so they can finally see real results.
https://newschoolofmarketing.com/club

🔵 MARKETING STRATEGY & COACHING: customised marketing strategies, expert guidance, and hands-on support to help business owners attract more leads, increase sales, and grow sustainably—without the guesswork. https://www.biancamckenzie.com/coaching/

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Transcript

[00:00] Welcome to the New School of Marketing podcast. The place for smart, simple strategies that will amplify your business results. Sharing practical tips, insider knowledge, and actionable advice. Because marketing is something that every business owner can do. Now, let's get started.

[00:19] Introducing your host, Bianca Mackenzie. Mum, lover of snow, sports, camping, horse riding, and in demand launch strategist and Facebook advertising knowledge bank. 

Welcome to the New School of Marketing podcast. I'm Bianca Mackenzie, and today I'm talking about marketing the right way in today's noisy world with Tash Corbin. Tash Corbin is a business mentor specializing in consent driven, heart centered marketing. She hosts the Heart Centered Business Podcast and supports entrepreneurs from startup to scaling. Welcome to the podcast, Tash. So exciting to have you here.

[00:56] Tash: Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited for this one.

[00:59] Bianca: I know. It's been so long since we talked.

[01:02] Tash: I know. I think the first time I met you was in person. The first time I heard about you was at a conference. Yeah, probably like ten years ago. Nine years ago. Wow.

[01:12] Bianca: I don't remember which one, but I do remember going to some bars in, like, Fitzroy. Oh, my gosh, I do remember that.

[01:20] Tash: That sounds like me.

[01:21] Bianca: Yeah, it feels like it's like decades ago. All right, anything before kids is for me, is like, hang on, what life? Well, for anyone who doesn't know Tash, she has a reputation for being a consent driven, heart centered business mentor, as I just read out in her bio. Tash, can you tell us a little bit more about what consent driven and heart centered means?

[01:48] Tash: For sure. So I will start with heart centered because I started talking about that one first. So for me, when I first started my business back in 2013, I knew that I wanted to create a business that wasn't just about making money. So I was excited to start a business based on the four hour work week and some of these ideas of mobile entrepreneurs and freedom entrepreneurs and all of that kind of stuff. But I came from a consulting background where I had previously been working in some really amazing community based projects, and then all of those got canceled and I had to work for a mining company, and that was not my thing. And so I decided when I started my business, I wanted it to be something that I could get really passionate about, something that felt like it was having a positive impact on the world. And it literally came from my heart. The other thing that came up for me was that in the corporate world, I felt like I couldn't be myself. I had to have this mask on. Neurodiversity mask. But also, even just being an emotional person and being a woman mask, you couldn't cry at work, you couldn't have emotions, you couldn't any of those sorts of things. You had to play this game and pretend you were like a boy wearing a skirt, basically. And so I wanted to create a business where instead of seeing my emotions and my heart as a floor, I would make that like the lead. It was almost my selling point. And so for me, Heart Center just kind of really captured that really beautifully. And the more I talked about businesses that had a positive impact but also came from your heart and this Heart Center business idea, the more people just really resonated with that and it kind of became this real movement and this real badge of honor to be someone who had a Heart Center business. And that could be website developers and ads managers. It could be people doing healing. Like it wasn't necessarily about the service that you were providing or the products you were selling. It was more like an ethos. And so, yeah, that's something I've been talking about since I first started my business. And then consent based business came about from my experience starting my business and the marketing gurus and mentors that I first worked with because I would do courses on social media and marketing and learn from certain mentors, and there were just certain things that they told me to do that felt a bit yucky. And being someone who my whole life I've been obsessed with biopsychology and selling things and having little businesses. I crushed up Fools Gold Pyrite Rocks into glitter and sold it at school when I was eight. I've always been into sales and marketing, but I've never been someone who liked any of the really pushy marketing or almost feeling like you're tricking people. And a lot of those marketing strategies were all or nothing, right? If you don't have the countdown timer and send 17 emails in five days and tell people they won't succeed unless they buy from you and blah, blah, blah, then it's not going to work. And so at first I would do these programs and be like, well, I'm not going to do that part because that bit's gross, but I'll do the rest. I'm not going to do that part because that's gross, but I'll do the rest. But what I found was it was missing the whole point. And those marketing strategies and tactics were using false scarcity or false urgency or psychological trickery to get someone to buy something. And when I think about why I want people to buy from me, I want them to buy from me because they want it. And they don't want it because it's closing down. They don't want it because it's 75% off what it's valued at, which is always a lie. They don't want it because they are forced to buy it today and make a decision. They don't want it because I've somehow lured them into this false sense that if they buy from me, they'll somehow magically be successful. I want them to buy from me because they're informed. They want it and they feel empowered in that process, not disempowered in that process. And so at first, I started talking about it through the lens of feminine marketing, because it felt like the boys bro marketers were doing this pushy thing, and it was more girls who didn't want to. But as it progressed, I realized it wasn't gendered and it wasn't about a certain energy. It was actually about consent. And when I sign up for someone's mailing list, do I reasonably expect to be sent 17 emails in five days? No, I did not give consent to that. When I go to someone's webinar, am I consenting for them to hypnotize me through the process? No, I did not consent to that. And yet so many marketing structures and strategies are actually built on hypnosis neurolinguistic programming and all of these persuasive techniques and manipulative techniques to get people to buy something. And so I started to craft my own launch processes and my own marketing structures and my own sales page templates and all sorts of things based on this concept of deeply informed consent. Not just through the lens of, do I have permission to send someone an email, but through the lens of, did that person reasonably expect to receive this from me? And it's created such high conversion in my business, it's created such high conversion for my clients that it's become this entire movement. And it makes me really excited to hear so many people talking about consent in business now, which is super cool.

[07:30] Bianca: I love it. Thank you so much for explaining that. I'm just sitting here going, yes, I am a trained marketer. Not that we learn any of this at school. Well, I don't know what they teach now, but when I went to uni, it was all still old school. And, yeah, it's more about biopsychology and that kind of thing, and none of the digital things were taught back then.

[07:54] Tash: But, yeah, this is your little story. I did marketing as part of my degree in 2000 to 2003, and it was heralded as, like, one of these cutting edge marketing courses, and it was literally like, how to make a website. That's all they did, was how to make a website for your business. So that was their idea of digital marketing at that point in time.

[08:16] Bianca: Oh, my gosh, we didn't even learn that. I don't know when did I do uni? Graduated in 2005. No, we just literally did, like, the principles of marketing. Like, everyone I'm pretty sure they still use Kotla, the book at uni now, but yeah, there was not really anything digital marketing. There was no such thing as countdown timers and things like that. It was all about consumer behavior and biopsychology and none of the ickiness that kind of label belonged to sales so much as marketing. I think they all kind of go together now. But it's just fascinating that you're saying the whole neural linguistic programming and things like that because, yeah, I have a marketing background. I'm a marketer, but I don't have any background in NLP and definitely not hypnosis.

[09:13] Tash: I know, but also, there are so many people online who've been taught to run a webinar a certain way. They're not told that it's hypnotic, they're just told to do it that way. And so many people just blindly follow this advice because they don't have that level of understanding of psychology that we do, or they don't stop to discern, why does this feel funny in my tummy when I say it that way? Or we're so used to handing the experience and expertise and advice over and just doing what we're told that we could be using those sorts of strategies and not even realize. And so one of the first things that I do with consent based marketing is give a giant forgiveness blanket to anyone who's used it accidentally and didn't realize. Because a lot of times when I talk about this particular process, if we break it down, here's what they're actually doing to you. And people are like, oh my gosh, I used that in my email sequence because I did this person's launching program, and that's what they told me to do. And so I think the first thing to do is just be really forgiving of ourselves for like, we didn't know, we just took it as well. That's just what you do these days. Yeah, but once you know, I think that's where the fork in the road comes. You can find out, oh, this is actually built on really toxic psychological manipulation. And then do you decide to keep doing it or do you decide to move to a more consent based model? That's where I think the fork in the road is not. But way back when you decided to buy some random marketing course and you didn't realize they were teaching you hypnosis quietly.

[10:49] Bianca: Yeah, I 100% agree with that. And I've done so many courses, I'm sure, that most of us have. And I don't know, like you said, when it feels icky, that, for me, rings alarm bells, and anyone can sniff that out. If you are not 100% behind the tactics that you're using, anyone can see that and feel that. So your conversion rates are just not up there, really. You've already touched a little bit on it. But how can people, in a way, go through their entire business or go through their entire business model and just make a bit of an overhaul? Where would you start with doing all these things after the blanket, after the permission, or not the permission, the forgiveness.

[11:44] Tash: The first thing I would look at is wherever you're actively marketing something. So in launches, email sequences, webinars, those sorts of things, I wouldn't go, oh my gosh, I need to review everything. Right? I would never do that. What I would do is look at any assets that you're building from here, like a webinar, an email sequence or a launch or something like that, just applying that lens of is this consent based? And just questioning why do I feel like I have to say that? Or why am I doing the emails in this order? Or what impression am I leaving? Or what impact does it have for people if they go through this webinar with me? So one of the things I always do is whenever I create something free, I always ask the question, will people who don't buy at the end find this a valuable use of their time? And if I can't honestly answer yes, then I don't do it. Every single webinar that I run, I get emails and messages from people saying I can't buy. And I'm so sorry, but I just really found that so valuable and I've got so much I want to work on, and for me that is actually a sign of success because I don't need everyone to buy from me. There are people in my audience that don't have the capacity to buy from me or they're not ready to buy from me. I don't want them to feel like just because they don't have enough money to buy my $2,500 program that they're hopeless. There's no way that they're going to succeed. They're just going to have to wait until they can buy before they're allowed to succeed.

[13:28] Bianca: They're on the starting journey.

[13:30] Tash: Yeah, exactly. And they've got some things that they can get started with, they've got some things that they can work on and they absolutely can succeed without ever having to buy from me. And that's one of the big NLP strategies that's used in webinars, is the two choice theory. So you get people to the point at the end of the webinar, we say from here, you've got two choices. You buy from me, you get the answers, you succeed, everything works. Oh, think about five years from now, how happy will your children be? Oh my gosh, look at this amazing, beautiful future. Right? We're future pacing success. And then the other option is you only have two options. The other option is you don't buy from me. You continue to try and figure it out yourself, you end up flailing around, you end up miserable, your children end up miserable and destitute and on the streets and oh my gosh, you will regret never buying from me. They don't actually say it in that language, but what they're doing at that point in time is trying to narrow you down on two choices. But actually, if we think about it objectively, you have 1000 choices at that point in time. You could choose to buy, not do the modules and actually regret your purchase decision, but they don't tell you that that's an option. Choose not to buy, go and Google what it is that that person was offering and go and find a low cost solution and be absolutely successful, right? But they don't want you to know that there are other options available to you. So they're invested in making you closed down to believing that there's only two options available. So that's an example of something where you might have done this, right? Because you think people say you should have like, here's your two choices from here. But what you don't realize is that actually, if you use that with that future pacing, you're actually closing down people's understanding of what options are available to them. And that's where it comes into consent, right? That person they unwittingly are being programmed to believe they only have two choices. When they signed up to the webinar, they didn't say, yes, you can program me to believe I only have two choices. NLP is a brilliant coaching tool. But when people sign up for NLP coaching, they're giving consent for you to use NLP on them. Yes, that's where the line is for me. I love NLP, I have an NLP coach myself. But I would argue that using NLP on people who have not consented to it is not ethical.

[16:01] Bianca: Yes, that's where the line lies 100%, just on that topic on all of this, because I'm sitting here going, okay, well then how does someone still market their business? Because I sometimes feel the hesitation for people to market their business because they want to give value, they really want to offer something. But then sometimes at the end of, for example, a webinar, they kind of just like the little fine print. Like, I have something on this, I.

[16:42] Tash: Can help you with it.

[16:44] Bianca: They almost don't want to sell their thing. So how do you balance that?

[16:50] Tash: Yeah, absolutely. So I've absolutely been on one of those webinars where at the end the person is like, oh, and by the way, I have a program, I'll send you the details in the email. And then they just closed it out, right? Like, I totally understand that. That then seems to be what our default is, but actually that's also not being of service to people, because we need to consistently remind ourselves people aren't buying from us out of pity, right? So that's the other end. It's like, well, if I sell to them, I'm being naughty because people only buy from me when they really want to. Whereas there's a balance between using these toxic marketing strategies and then not marketing at all. And if anything, I would rather that more people who are using a consent based approach were more loud with their marketing so that more of us could see the difference. Because once we understand the difference between consent based and toxic marketing, all of a sudden it's like being able to see through the matrix. And the more that you experience great sales and marketing techniques and strategies, the more you are drawn to other people who use those same marketing strategies and techniques. So people aren't signing up for your webinar because they feel sorry for you. They're signing up for your webinar because they want to learn about this thing because they're motivated to get the outcome that you deliver. And they don't just sign up to the webinar because it's free. And then you deliver the webinar, and then that's it. There are people in your audience who they sign up to a webinar. Like, I'm an example of this. I signed up to a webinar about feng shui for businesses because I love energy, work and all that kind of stuff. And I signed up to a webinar and it talked about the abundance center of the home and how to sort out your bagua map on your floor plan. And then by the end of the webinar, I was like, this is so cool. This is so exciting. I just want someone to do it for me, right? Yeah, I could take what you've taught me in the webinar and do it myself. Yeah, I know that that's an option, but I'm the kind of person who I'm a little bit lazy, I'm a little bit selfish, and I just want someone to do it for me. So it would be a disservice to me to not tell me that that's an option because I'm not actually going to put this into place. Yes, I love it. I might move something, but I'm not going to get the amazing benefits of a fully feng shui home unless you tell me how I can buy that from you. And so I think that's the important thing to remember here is that marketing is not evil. Sales is not evil, right? It's just the type of marketing and sales that we may have been subjected to or taught to use that is out of values, alignment, and integrity for us. And so the whole reason why I get so passionate about consent based marketing and I talk about it everywhere and come and do all these podcast interviews is because I want to ensure that our reaction to toxic marketing is not to stop marketing. Our reaction to toxic marketing is to use consent based models instead. The more that we do that, the more we contribute to a consent based marketing being the norm. But also, the more that we do that, the more that people like us make the sales, the more that people like us have the money and the wealth. And we're the ones who deliver on our promise far more than those who have to resort to psychologically tricking people to buy from them in order to be able to sell people something. Because if we look at it, it comes down to it. I believe that the reason why these marketing strategies are so prolific is because they were built by people who deep down, didn't really believe that their product was good enough or who deep down were afraid that people wouldn't buy unless you really got them feeling like they had to, right? Those marketing strategies are built on fear, and they're built on not really believing that your product is good enough, right? Because why else would you use strategies to get people to buy stuff that they don't want or they don't need? So when we can stand really strong in our belief, like, for you, Bianca, people who work with you get amazing results. And so when you stand in the power of that, and when you know that, you know you're going to deliver few clients, you know people are going to have the most amazing time, well, it's in your audience's best interest for you to learn how to sell, for you to learn how to market. And that goes for every other heart centered entrepreneur out there. It is better for your audience if you learn how to sell effectively, because those people who want the outcome faster or want the outcome through a self study program, or who want the outcome through a drip Fed membership that gives them a little bit at a time, can get it. The gap between people having the outcome they want and not having the outcome they want is you learning how to market and sell your products effectively.

[22:09] Bianca: I 100% agree. I always tell my clients or anyone who's kind of like, oh, I don't like marketing. I'm like, Then reframe it, then don't call it marketing, call it something else. But people need what you're offering, because otherwise why are you offering it if you love doing it? Then like this morning, I had a meeting to see if I could help someone, and I said, look, you're not ready for me yet, and I'm sending them someone else's details that needs to help them first. And they're like, oh, sorry, I feel like we wasted your time. I'm like, no, you haven't. I'm like, I'm not going to help someone who's not ready for it. That's not good for anyone. You'll be wasting your time and your money and kind of my time as well. So when people are ready, they will purchase. Although, and I would love your thoughts on this, because you were saying the fake timers and whatnot, there is research that some urgency does help. So, yeah, what is your take on that? Because sometimes I feel like, okay, a little bit of urgency might be necessary, but people still have a choice, right?

[23:33] Tash: I am neurodivergent, and I am definitely someone motivated by a deadline and by urgency and by reminders. I don't have a problem with countdown timers. I don't have a problem with deadlines, doors closing, discounts going away. I think they are all legitimate devices to motivate someone to take action quickly. I don't think that they're enough to motivate people to buy something that they don't want, so you can't rely on them, but they are great when combined with brilliant value proposition and brilliant messaging and an offer that people actually want. They work really beautifully to create that deadline. The thing I have a problem with is, for example, I went to go and sign up to go to a conference in San Diego. You might know what it is if I say that it's in San Diego. And I was going with a friend from Spain, and she said to me, oh, there's three days left for early bird tickets. Do you want to have a look at flights? And we were going to go to it together, and I ended up completely forgetting about it. And I sent her a message and said, look, I know that I've missed the deadline. I totally didn't get back to you, but I desperately want to go. I think this will be great. I'll go and have a look at what the price of the tickets are now. And the countdown time had just reset, and it was still early bird, but now I had five days left, right? And so then I was like, oh, this is really odd. And so I literally set an alarm on my phone to when the countdown timer was supposed to end, and I went to the website with 5 seconds to go, and it got to zero. And then it just went back to six days, 23 hours, and 59 minutes, right? And I was like, I'm not going. If this is the type of strategy that they're using to try and falsely force me to make a buying decision, then what kind of marketing strategies am I going to learn at this conference? Like, this is not my cup of tea. So it's those sorts of things for me that it's out of integrity. I use early bird discounts to get people to buy from me sooner rather than later because I like to reward early buyers with a cheaper price. I don't have to do as much marketing to them because they've just joined. But I don't use that as the only reason for people to buy from me. And I think sometimes when we use these things about urgency or scarcity or those sorts of things, we can sometimes rest back a little and not have as strong messaging and not really do the work of being able to express why this is valuable to our audience. Because we think the countdown timer is enough or the urgency or the discount is enough. And so even when I teach, like, launch strategy or how to run webinars, a lot of the time people are like, okay, so what will my deadline be? And often I'll say, let's make the deadline. The course is starting so that instead of you whenever you post on social media being like, two days till get your bonuses, and you're constantly talking about the bonuses instead of talking about the actual course that you want them to buy. So let's make the focal point of all your marketing be the course that you're selling instead of the focal point constantly being random deadlines. Because the need to talk about those deadlines sometimes overshadows, reminding yourself, well, I actually need to explain what's included included in the program. I actually need to explain why this is valuable for my niche. I actually need to have messaging that resonates with my audience. And so, yeah, absolutely have no problem with even like having a program that's got twelve spaces in it. Brilliant. It means that it's going to be nice and intimate. It means I'm going to get your attention. Brilliant. But if I after I've bought from you, see, you say, due to popular demand, I'm opening up another eight spaces. I'm going to be cranky because you told me it was twelve and you didn't say it's twelve unless people want more people want it because then it wasn't twelve people. It was however many spots you could sell. But you just said it was twelve to make me think it was going to be small program. Yeah, and I've seen this done before as well, even with people do it for free workshops and they say, I'm running a free workshop, but I'm testing it out so it's only 50 spaces. And then two days later, due to popular demand, I've extended it to 100 spaces. And I'm like that's out of integrity to me. Because actually you were willing to take as many people as you could take yeah. Pretended that it was limited spaces. And so this is where that whole gut feel comes in, right? It's like do you feel like you are being honest and upfront and in integrity with using that urgency or scarcity? If yes, go for it. If it feels a bit wonky to you, then just pay attention to why sometimes it feels wonky because you're worried you're being salesy and that's fine, right? Like, I think that part of our wobbliness around using certain marketing strategies is simply a desire to not be a very salesy person. And that's a little mindset shift. Remind yourself that people want what you have to offer. Your service is of value, the right people will want it. And then ask yourself the question again. And so sometimes it's just a little mindset wobble, but sometimes it is your gut or your intuition or your integrity or whatever it is telling you this is misleading or this isn't right, or this doesn't feel right for me to say it that way. Trust yourself when that little insight comes up, for sure, but still take action. Oh, yes, still take action.

[29:06] Bianca: Some people kind of then go, oh, I'm not going to say anything anymore. Or even, I was talking to someone the other day and they're like, oh, I said, do you have a mailing list? And I know because I don't like getting those emails. So I had to, in a way, convince her that just because you don't like getting certain emails doesn't mean that some. People like, she makes beautiful, crafty things. I'm like, I want to know when you're creating something new.

[29:33] Tash: And every client I've ever had who says, I don't like getting those emails, I say, okay, open your inbox right now and scroll. And I want you to tell me what emails are you receiving? And invariably, they are on some mailing lists of people that they love or products that they love or things that they love. And I was like, I want you to imagine you who don't like receiving emails have stayed subscribed to that shoe email list for three years. I want you to imagine that your audience love your stuff just as much as you love that, because there are people out there who do. And because of, like, email laws, now, you have to have an unsubscribe button that is always going to be available to people they are able to unsubscribe if they no longer want to hear about these things. But there's so much value to being on your mailing list. I want to be on mailing lists of people who I want to know when things are happening. We call it in my group program, we call it the Bon Jovi Effect, because we were in a group coaching call one day, and someone was talking about this. Like, I just don't want to keep annoying people. And I said, who's your favorite singer? And she said, Bon jovi. I said, okay, let's say Bon Jovi was coming to your town and he was doing a concert just for people who were on his email list. And he sent everyone in his mailing list one email that he was coming to your town and doing this amazing free concert, or even a paid one, and you missed that email, and you saw all your friends were sharing photos of them at the Bon Jovi concert, and would you feel like, oh, well, at least he didn't spam me? Or would you be angry that he didn't tell you? I know I'd be angry that he didn't tell me.

[31:15] Bianca: Yes.

[31:15] Tash: And so you've got to think of yourself as like, the Bon Jovi for your audience. And I also want to say, the big thing that helps me is for my industry, and it stands true for most industries. There's a bunch of grifters out there, right there. There's a bunch of people out there selling products, courses, services similar to yours who are willing to rip people off under, deliver, not follow through, and charge ten times as much as I do. And for every time I don't send an email or I don't post on social media, someone else is going to pay that ten times as much for half of the service. I don't profess myself to be like, some kind of savior in the online business world or whatever, but I've had enough people join my programs who say, I wish I hadn't wasted $15,000 on this other thing. First before I joined this, I've had enough people say that to me that I realize I'm actually costing those people that money. Because if I had got my *** into gear a little sooner, if I had got my marketing sorted sooner, if I'd got my mailing list growing sooner, chances are they would never have paid that $15,000 to that person who made them feel terrible because they didn't get the result. And so I hold on to those examples very tightly because it allows me to get over my own ego and my own resistance and remember that people are relieved when they hear from me. They're relieved when they hear about consent based marketing. They're relieved when they hear about not having to spam the Internet all the time. They're relieved when they hear that I work less than 15 hours a week. They don't have to get up at 04:00 A.m. And beat their chest into the sunrise in order to be successful. People are relieved when they find me, and I think people are relieved when they find you, Bianca. And people are relieved when they find anyone listening to this podcast the overriding feeling when people find a heart centered business owner and someone who's in integrity is relief. And so if you remember that relief and use that as your fire for showing up online and marketing and speaking up and being louder than some of those chest beating weirdos out there, whatever it is, then actually, you're doing your audience a favor, and you're doing them a service by showing up and speaking up and reminding them that help is available and that you deeply care about delivering.

[33:44] Bianca: Yeah, I 100% agree. I probably need to get a little bit louder. You do, actually, I'm a little bit behind the scenes. Well, it's mostly from what's happening in my life in my little ones. Yeah, I will get out babies. I will get out there again.

[34:02] Tash: I don't have babies, and I don't know how people who have children do this. Like, honestly, I am so in awe of Mums. I once babysat my sister's kids for a week and tried to run my business for the week, and they were like, probably like ten and twelve or something. They could dress themselves and feed themselves and everything, and I was just like, oh my gosh, how do moms do this in school hours?

[34:27] Bianca: But you'll be aunty, isn't it? Auntie time is fun.

[34:30] Tash: It is fun time. There's a lot of boundaries there, but yeah, I think it's something where we have seasons and it's okay to show up and not show up. I also have had a big break from my business for health reasons. I had a surgery and things didn't go well. I had tissue dying off and boil. I won't tell you all the gory details of that, but I thought I was going to have six weeks off from my business. I ended up having eight months where I could barely do anything.

[34:58] Bianca: Yeah, I remember that.

[35:00] Tash: And so regardless of whether it's a choice or you're having kids or something happens or whatever, I also am someone who believes in taking the time that you need to look after yourself and really looking after yourself. And if you're in a space right now where you can show up and you can market and you can build an email list and all of those sorts of things in the future, if something happens unexpected or you are planning to have children in the future or whatever it might be, your future self will be so grateful you got over. Definitely my current self is so I'm going to cry. Is so grateful for 2015 Tash deciding, you know what, this Haphazard list growth stuff has got to stop. I need to get serious about growing my list because that set me up with so much consistency of income, so much leveraged income. And so even when everything went pear shaped, it wasn't life ending. It wasn't, I have to go back and get a job. It was just a bit of shrinkage for eight months and I didn't have to ask anyone for sick leave, I didn't have to justify and get doctors notes for not working today or whatever it might be. So I was so grateful that Pastash had sorted it out and had got over herself and had decided to show up and serve people and speak loudly as I could. Because that created that spaciousness for me to be able to actually give myself the time to heal and give myself the time to rest without guilt and without worry and without having to report to someone else about my well being. And that is priceless to me.

[36:40] Bianca: It's so worth it, isn't it?

[36:41] Tash: Yeah.

[36:41] Bianca: You're kind of like glad that you got out of your own way. It is hard though. I know when we start there's so many I'm talking to quite a few newer business owners right now. I'm doing a lot of work with more local Tasmanian business owners and yeah, just the Insecurities. How do I do this? Am I not spamming someone? Getting out of your own way and it's not always easy. So how do people make sure that they are seen and heard without being spammy? Or the opposite, like, how do you reach your customers if you're not keen on being loud and you'd rather hide? How do people kind of get to that point? What do they do? Because there's so many places at the moment to promote as well. So where would you start?

[37:40] Tash: Okay, so one of the things I say is that I can make any marketing platform work. I don't care if someone uses Instagram or Facebook or LinkedIn or TikTok or whatever. Right. TikTok is not as great, but there's pluses and columns for every single platform. Most marketing specialists will try to convince you that the platform that they teach is the best platform. But ultimately, I think if you choose the platform that you like being on the most and that you enjoy engaging on the most, that is actually going to be a more important factor in your decision making process than anything else. A lot of people say to me, oh, well, my audience is a bit younger, so they're more likely going to be on Instagram or TikTok. I say, yeah, but so are your competitors. There is a portion of your audience that's hanging out on Facebook. And if you love hanging out on Facebook and you're in all of these cool groups and you've got all these people that you can see, there's evidence that if some of your audience is on Facebook, you have less competition on Facebook and you're going to enjoy it more because that's your favorite platform. Similarly, like people say, oh, I've got an older audience, so I have to stick to Facebook. Well, actually, one of the fastest growing demographics on Instagram is over 55, so there's going to be some of them somewhere. And you're not going to reach every single person on every single platform anyway. So if you're worried about how do I reach my audience and what's the best platform, my advice is just choose the platform that you love first, right until you've reached every single person in your niche on Facebook, you don't have to go anywhere else. If you love Facebook, stay with Facebook. But what really matters is getting those foundations right, whatever platform you choose. So I always teach business and marketing foundations through the lens of we start with niche. Who are you actually trying to reach? So niche is not like your modality or the topic area that you're focused on, it's who you are marketing to. So being really clear on who is the person you're marketing to, not who could your healing services help, because that's everyone. But who specifically do you want to market this to? When you know who that is, then the next layer of foundation is your messaging and value proposition. You can be far more specific and far more tangible and far more resonant with your messaging if you're speaking to a very specific person. So the messaging that's built on a good niche is going to be far more effective. Good messaging creates engagement on whatever platform you choose. It creates reach because engagement creates reach and it also creates shareability. So if you are someone who, I don't know who you serve, but I know you do some random thing with massages, then only people who say, oh, I'm looking for someone who does massages will ever hear about your services from me. And even if I know that you do massages, but I'm not 100% sure what it's about or what's different about your massage. I probably may not even share it if I know other massage therapists, but if I know you specifically focus on backyard weekend athletes who do triathlons and long distance running and all that kind of thing. And I have anyone in my area that I know fits that, then I'll be like, oh, if you're ever looking for a massive person, I know someone who specializes in triathletes. Right? So Niching is very good not only for your own tangible messaging, but also for that word of mouth and people being able to share and tag people who they think it would be relevant to. And built on top of messaging is an offer that that audience wants for that value proposition. Right? So when we build it this way, the very top of your foundations is your marketing strategy. And it doesn't matter if you jump from platform to platform to platform, from marketing strategy to marketing strategy, if you don't have your niche, your value proposition and messaging and an offer that people want to buy clear. It doesn't matter how much Facebook ads money you throw at it, right?

[41:39] Bianca: Yeah.

[41:40] Tash: It's not going to do anything, right. You might fill a list full of people who are completely disparate, who never want to buy anything from you, but they were interested in that random checklist that you use to lure them onto your mailing list. But is that actually going to result in sales and business growth? Well, we don't know. So for a lot of people, I think they're so focused on reaching people on the internet that they forget about, well, what are you reaching them with and why are you reaching them? So take some time to get those foundations sorted first, and then when it comes to selecting your marketing strategy, you can choose whatever platforms and strategies that you want. But I use a client attraction process to break down the steps so that we can make choices for each stage. So at the top is reach. Where are you going to reach people? So that could be Facebook or Instagram or whichever platform you choose. So that's the top line is reach. What's your main place you're going to reach people? The next place is nurture. So how are you going to nurture a relationship with those people? Get them onto your mailing list and communicate with them consistently? That's one way. Another way could be to run free classes regularly. Create a little Facebook group where they get to get to know you far more strongly. Now, I don't recommend Facebook Groups as a strategy, but some people really love it. I have a giant one, so people.

[43:07] Bianca: Assume I was going to say, you have a really big one.

[43:09] Tash: Yeah. If I was starting my business from scratch today, I would not start a Facebook group. When I started, my Facebook group was 2014 and Facebook was nuts. So about groups, right? So Facebook was telling everyone to join my group and my group grew organically without me having to do it. And when I posted in that group. Everyone in my group saw it. Today, when I post in my Facebook group of 35,000 people, the average reach of a post is 100. I have a Facebook page with eight and a half thousand followers, and the average organic post of each post is around 1000 smaller number of people. But I reach far more people organically. Anyway, that's a whole nother conversation. But you need some way to nurture connection, right? Nurture that relationship. A blog is a great way to do it. A podcast is a great way to do it. A podcast is good because it reaches new people and it nurtures a relationship with them. Then we have Lead Generation, and this is the part of the client attraction process that most people skip and most people neglect, and yet it's the one that directly correlates with sales. So Lead Generation is where you talk specifically about how people could pay you to work with them and they lean towards it. So it might be that you post about an offer and say, if you want to jump on a quick chat, we can do that. And they say, yes, please, I'd like to talk to you about that. Or it might be that if you're doing it more at scale, you could generate leads by running a webinar. But that webinar is specific to a topic that the next logical step is to join your program. So if people are joining that webinar, they're leaning in, right? They're saying, yes, I'm so interested in this outcome that I'm willing to give you my email address for it. So finding ways to qualify everyone who you're reaching and nurturing a relationship with, how do you know if they want to buy something from you? How do you know if they're interested in the outcome that you deliver? So finding ways to invite people to lean in, and when they lean in, you actually do something with it. You actually have that conversation. You actually then say, okay, well, if you're interested in Facebook ads, tell me a little bit more so I can understand exactly what you're looking for, and then I can recommend one of my products or services that works for you. Or like you did Bianca, say, you're not quite ready for this. Go and do this thing instead, right? So it's a very deep and integrity, values aligned way of doing sales. Because when you do it that way, reach nurture, lead generation and then conversion, it means that you're very rarely pitching a paid product or service to someone who doesn't want it because they've leaned in towards it. They may not be ready to buy your offer, but they want the outcome. And so something that I talk about in online marketing and getting leads and growing lists, all that kind of stuff is don't focus on, I want to go out and find as many people who want to buy my course as possible because then you get really fixated on are they going to buy my course or not? Instead, get really clear on what is the outcome that your course delivers. So for my takeoff program, it's getting you to that first consistent five k months to eight k months. So how can I get in front of as many people as possible who want to have consistent five to eight k months? Because then I'm attracting all of those people. They want the specific outcome that I am here to deliver and then I can present to them the way I could support them to do that. And they can make an informed decision about whether that works for them or not. But I'm speaking to an audience who I'm very confident. I know that they want the outcome that I deliver. And so I'm not attached to them needing to be ready to buy from me straight away. I often ask people, what's your niche? And they say people who are ready to invest. And to me that actually just says I don't want to have to do marketing and sales. Right. People who already know that they want to buy it, if they're ready to invest and they already know they want to buy something, they've Googled it and they've bought it.

[47:13] Bianca: Right?

[47:13] Tash: You've missed the boat. If someone is ready to invest, actually you're a bit late to the party and you're going to rely on being top of Google and being reactive to them being ready to buy, they probably.

[47:24] Bianca: Already have been following other people that have nurtured them.

[47:27] Tash: Yeah, exactly right. And so rather than focusing on who do I want to sell this specific product to, focus on how can I speak to and be in front of as many people who want this outcome that I deliver? Right? So for you banker, it's like Facebook ads that generate high quality leads and get sales or Facebook ads that grow your list with really highly qualified people. So there are so many people out there who want to and I would also argue without having to spend hours and hours doing organic strategies, right? They're done with being all about the organic strategies. So there are people out there who need that outcome. They want that outcome, they're hungry for that outcome. Some people who are hungry for that outcome will just want to learn how to do it themselves. Some people who are hungry for that outcome want to hire someone to do it for them. Some people don't even know what they need yet. They just know they're done with showing up for 4 hours a day and making 1000 instagram reels and they'd just rather get in front of the right people as quickly as possible and turn that into high quality leads. And so some of your products and services won't suit everyone who wants that outcome, but following you will be really valuable for them getting your freebies will be really valuable for them. Being on your mailing list will be really valuable for them. So what that does is it means, like, I know 80% of my list will probably never buy something from me, but I don't resent or neglect or judge any of those 80% of people because I know they're getting so much value from being part of my audience and being on my mailing list. And I love having them there because they also support the growth of my community. When I post things on Socials, they'll comment on it. When I ask them to share something, they'll go and share something without me even asking them. They'll be telling their friends to come and join my Facebook group. So it helps me to be detached from them needing to be ready to buy and hungry to buy, and they already know what they need, and instead, I just need them to want the outcome, and then it's my job to help them to understand how I could help them to get that outcome.

[49:29] Bianca: Yeah.

[49:29] Tash: And whether they attachment yeah.

[49:31] Bianca: And then whether they want to buy that or not, that is up to them, their decision. And it comes back to that concept driven kind of thing. It's a really interesting, in a way, cycle and psychology because I'm like the whole balance of marketing still, but being aware of the consent side of things. You don't want people to stop marketing.

[50:00] Tash: No, I definitely don't want people to stop marketing. Please do not let that be the takeaway from this podcast.

[50:06] Bianca: No, at all.

[50:08] Tash: I think the more of us who choose to use consent based, heart centered marketing strategies, the more that that will be the standard and the more that those gross things will just become a thing of the past because people are getting so savvy to it now. Yeah. You don't need me to tell you what being grossly marketed to looks like because we've all experienced it by reacting to that experience, by saying, I'm never going to do sales and marketing. It's almost like we're letting that be the accepted standard of marketing. And so you're actually contributing to the wave of not tolerating that by being a consent based, heart based marketer. So be part of the movement rather than completely opting out of the entire process. Because, as I said, there are other people who'd be willing to grift out of the money, out of your clients, out of your audience. And it's almost like you're being selfish by not telling us how we can pay you instead because you're going to do a better job.

[51:10] Bianca: Exactly. What was it? The bon jovi.

[51:12] Tash: Bon Jovi.

[51:15] Bianca: Love it.

[51:16] Tash: Don't be a secret.

[51:19] Bianca: All right. One more thing. What's one thing that you wish you had known when you first started in your business?

[51:28] Tash: There's a lot of mistakes that I made when I started my business, but.

[51:31] Bianca: I actually make mistakes.

[51:32] Tash: Most of them I look back on lovingly and I'm cool with it. And I also know that a lot of those mistakes I made, I needed to make them so that I could stop other people making those mistakes. I could be the warning story. But six months into my business, I had a $20,000 month. And I come from a business background, I come from a marketing background. I don't think that that's reasonable for me to say. I had a, so you can too. I don't ever talk about that through that lens. But I had a in my business and I was like, I've made it right. Like, this is amazing. I am so fabulous. I'm going to have such a successful business. And then a month later, I went to I won't name names, but I went to a webinar of someone who was selling a business, startup and marketing course and they shared all of these examples of people who are having 40k months and 50k months selling passive income and online courses and knowledge based businesses and all this kind of stuff. And sitting in that webinar, I became so wobbly. I was like, oh my gosh, I've been doing this all wrong. I can't believe how silly I am. And it was like, it doesn't count unless it's passive, right? Because you're going to have to deliver on all of that. I was just selling one to one services and I was only doing about like eight to ten client calls a week. Like, I wasn't overloaded or burnt out or anything by any means. It was epic. Like, I should have continued to feel amazing. But I went to this webinar and it was using a lot of these marketing strategies on me to make me like, well, sure, you had your little twenty k month, but is it a? So it really knocked me. It really knocked my self confidence. I allowed it to make me feel like less than and that I was doing it all wrong. And of course I was teaching the strategies that I was using in my own business to my clients. I started out as a business mentor from the first day. And so I started to feel guilty. Have I led my clients down the wrong pathway? Oh my gosh, this is so bad. I feel so like I was just thrown. And I bought that course because I was like, right, clearly I've done it all wrong. I need to learn how to do it right. And my income slowly but surely dwindled down. I had a in January, I had a ten k month in February. Then it was eight k month. And by the time I launched my online program, my passive income product, I made $4,000 of sales of that passive income product. And then the following month being in delivery mode and creating the product because they taught sell it before you build it, I had an $800 month. So by giving away my self belief and the strategies that I had created on my own that got me a making someone else the expert. I went from twenty K month to an $800 month. And if I could go back and whisper in that little Tasha's ear, it would be at that moment to say, you just had a hang out here for longer. Yeah, you know how to have a $20,000 month every month for the rest of this year. There is no rush to get any further. There is no rush to break your business model. There is no rush to get to $20,000 a month is enough. Hang out here. Make this the norm before you add or change anything, because that $20,000. I hadn't built a mailing list. I hadn't done a lot of those foundational things. It just came through high connection, high conversion strategies in other people's Facebook groups, and creating little mini mastermind pods and all sorts of fun, cool things that I did using high connection strategies. And I just wish I had known back then how magical my strategy was, because it took me almost 18 months before I went back to that strategy that had worked, and it instantly worked again. But for 18 months, I was like, no, clearly I'm doing it wrong. Clearly I'm doing right. I'll let someone else be the expert, and it just didn't work the way that what I was doing worked. And so I know a lot of people who get to the stage in business where they're like getting a few VIP clients consistently, like, okay, now I have to have a course, or, Now I have to have a membership, or Now I have to do something else. And every single one of those people, I say, just hang out here for a little longer. Because the longer you hang out here, the more you'll learn. Well, what is your magic little process? Because a lot of it was just kind of gut instinct at that point in time, or just being responsive at that point in time. And if I had taken a year to really solidify that strategy, get booked out as a one to one mentor, pop my prices up a couple of times, I believe I 100% believe I would have had a $200,000 year in my second year of business. But instead, my second year of business was not as financially successful as the first, because I got caught in this trap of believing that it's better if it's passive, or it's better if it's leveraged, or it's like somehow some money is better than others. And if you're still trading time for money, you're making a mistake. I was trading time for money. Very handsomely.

[56:50] Bianca: Yeah.

[56:51] Tash: Very happy. And when I sold my Group program, I was still trading time for money. And to be honest, I traded far more time for far less money. But somehow, because it was a Group program, it was. More valuable. No, I would have rather to have a $20,000 a month and work with people one on one. Thank you very much. And so I think we're always in a rush to be ready for the next step in business. And if I had known not to be in a rush when I started my business, I just think I would have been far more successful, far more quickly.

[57:21] Bianca: I think it also comes back to what we talked about at the start, the whole not like no consent kind of thing. There's so many of those webinars, and there's just so much marketing that makes us feel less than and makes us feel like we're not doing the right thing. And I feel like I've become a victim of that multiple times. Of course, I can make my own choices. I probably have chosen to become a victim to that. But becoming a new mother, like, wobbles of this, becoming a mother again, wobbles of this. I've had so many wobbles, and I have to stay away from those kind of webinars because they will affect me. I have learned that now.

[58:09] Tash: I'm still affected by them, right? And I know what to look out for, and they still get me, right? Every time there's something else that gets me, or it's not necessarily a certain thing that they say or do, but when I look back at the structure of the webinar or the three part training series or whatever the thing might have been, I can see it was designed to unstable me, right? It was designed to make me feel like maybe I haven't got it all figured out or there's so much to be done, or there's a magic 108 step process that I don't know about, and I need to know about it if I want to be successful.

[58:50] Bianca: And then you buy it.

[58:53] Tash: It's not magic. It's just the same old stuff. The ones that are the most salesy in terms of that kind of panic mode are usually the ones that are the least awesome in the inside. But I also think marginalized people, women and mums in particular, are targeted for this stuff because it's easy to say to a mum, like, your kids will be so much happier if you make more money, right, or your kids will be so much happier. And children are used as a real leverage device in a lot of those fear based marketing strategies. And so, yeah, again, if you've fallen for this, if you've spent the money that you shouldn't have, if you had buyers remorse, like, honestly, giant, big forgiveness to yourself, because in most cases, you didn't even realize what was happening to you. Oh, can I tell you one really like, one that just blew my mind? So it started with Tony Robbins. So at the end of Tony Robbins events, he gets you to close your eyes, and he's like, summarizing the day, and lots of people do this now. Not just Tony Robbins, but he'll start saying things like, by now you'll start to think that you're ready for the next stage, and by now you're probably wondering this, and by now and actually he's hypnotizing you by now. By now, not by right. So he's getting you to close your eyes, he gets you into hypnotic state, and then he's saying sentences to start with by now. By now. And when I found out about this, it just blew my mind. I was like, it's so blatant. And it's to me, I would feel so invaded.

[01:00:35] Bianca: Right.

[01:00:35] Tash: It feels so invasive to know that that was done to me. I did not give him permission to hypnotize me. And so it is not our fault if we are victim to these things. And I don't want us to spiritually bypass the fact that that person has acted in a way that is completely out of integrity. Because I think sometimes there's another thing that we do and that's we overly blame ourselves when someone else has done us wrong, and it is not your fault. There's this phenomenon for women in particular where we externalize our success and we internalize our failures. So if you think about, like, weight loss programs or whatever I'm not big into weight loss, but if someone loses weight and they're really excited, if someone says, oh my gosh, you're looking amazing, you've lost so much weight, they'll go, oh, yes, it's Weight Watchers or it's Jenny Craig. Right. They externalize the reason why they've lost weight. Oh, it's my personal trainer. They give all of the kudos to someone else, but if they fail, they do something wrong. They don't blame the program, they blame themselves. Oh yeah, I wasn't motivated enough, I wasn't disciplined enough. Oh, I didn't stick with the program, or whatever it might be. This happens in business programs. This happens everywhere on the internet. And it is women predominantly who fall into this, and marginalized people as well, particularly like, people of color, people with disabilities, they do it to themselves all the time. And it's a byproduct of spiritual bypassing and toxic productivity, but it's also a byproduct of this extreme personal responsibility. And so pay attention to when you think about things that have gone well or things that have not gone well. Are you falling into this trap of handing over your success but then only owning your failures? Because ultimately that's not right. That's not it. If you joined a program and you had to do it in twelve weeks and then you get kicked out and you couldn't keep up with the process, that's a design flaw in the program. That's not your fault. If that program was actively marketed to mums in particular, it's definitely not your fault because life happens, right?

[01:02:41] Bianca: Yes.

[01:02:43] Tash: If you join a program and the materials are so dense and hard to get through that you can't really take it all in and it's not organized well enough. So you're not one of the shining success stories. Not your fault. That's a program design issue. And so if you work with a VIP one to one mentor and they don't adequately equip you for sessions, or they don't adequately give you direction and instruction, or they give you tasks that you're in resistance mode and they don't ever talk about your resistance again, not your fault. Like, that's an under delivery on that person's behalf. And so I would love for that to be the takeaway for everyone. Do not externalize your success, but then internalize your failures because what you're doing is you're actually eroding your own self belief in the process. Yeah, I am very passionate about that. Can you tell?

[01:03:36] Bianca: Can totally tell. I feel like we could talk for like hours and hours about all of this, but we probably should wrap up.

[01:03:44] Tash: Yeah.

[01:03:45] Bianca: Um, so, like, in a bit of a recap, we're talking about marketing the right way in today's noisy world. Consent driven, heart centered. And I feel like women can do heart centered very intuitively as long as they listen to their intuition and just being aware of that, I guess the whole consent driven and I have to come back to these lessons myself every single time I feel like I'm finally getting there is to trust more in yourself. Marketing is a service. It's not an Icky thing, a yucky thing. If it is a yucky and it feels yucky, then obviously look at that. But I just see it now as just talking about the things that I do and talking about how I can help people. And I think we just have to trust and believe in ourselves a little bit more. Most of the time. It's a message to myself, too.

[01:04:49] Tash: And also, no great business or messaging or marketing was ever built in a bubble on its own.

[01:04:55] Bianca: No.

[01:04:56] Tash: That's 100% way to learn how to write. Wealthy business is to write for your business. The fastest way to learn what offer people are going to buy is to make a bunch of offers. So do it all in practice rather than in theory and talk to people.

[01:05:09] Bianca: And don't sit on things for too long. What is it? Fail fast or something. Make lots of mistakes and forgive yourself for them. Don't dwell on them too much. I think that is a good one.

[01:05:24] Tash: I see entrepreneurship as a mission to make your mistakes as quickly as possible and learn from them. And when you take it through that lens, instead of then being in this frozen state of I can't make any mistakes, you're just like, hungry to make mistakes. That's a much stronger mindset to be in.

[01:05:41] Bianca: You got to get comfortable with making mistakes. And what is it? It's one of the biggest self development journeys I have found entrepreneurship to be totally is. You learn so much about yourself and the ones that hang in there, they just get stronger and more resilient. It's incredible.

[01:06:02] Tash: Yeah. And if you take that mindset, like, think about it. Your success is inevitable because you'll never give up. You'll consistently learn from what you're doing, and so you'll always incrementally, at least improve, and so your success is inevitable if you take that mindset. Yeah. Which is such a relief to hear.

[01:06:23] Bianca: It is a total relief to hear. And I think I have learned part of that lesson from my children, because this is what I tell my daughter all the time. You're not going to learn unless you keep trying and I can't do it. And I'm like, Darling, could you walk when you were a baby? She's like, no. I'm like, well, what did you do? You got up and you tried again. Literally, there's so many lessons, and sometimes I have to learn it myself as well. She's like, I can't do it. Get so frustrated. I'm, like, keep trying.

[01:06:58] Tash: And I say that to people all the time because they'll say, like, oh, I'm not the marketing kind, or I'm not the webinar kind. And I'm like, oh, so when you were a baby and you were learning to walk and you fell over, did you go, oh, well, I guess I'm not the walking kind. I'm stuck here. Right? It's just a decision of whether you want to be that kind or whether you want to try and make that work. And also a lot of marketing stuff. I'll say instead of asking, will this work or not, start asking, how can I make this work? So instead of saying, like, will Facebook work for me or not, say, how can I make Facebook work for me? Or Will Instagram work for me or not? How can I make Instagram work for me? And so you stop getting into will I or won't I? Instead, you just focus on finding the answer.

[01:07:40] Bianca: Yeah. Oh, so many lessons. All right, we should really wrap up. I know we should really yeah, let's wrap it up. There's so many takeaways from this. There's so many lessons from this. Actually, this is the first time ever that I've taken notes during a podcast episode.

[01:08:00] Tash: Well, that's an honor. Thank you.

[01:08:02] Bianca: So thank you so much for that, because there's just always something to learn. Always something to learn. And one of the takeaways for myself is that I need to start talking about things more. But like you said, there's a season for everything, and my season is a little bit different right now, but yeah, I'm going to write up some good show notes for this, and there's a lot of takeaways for everyone in this episode, so, yeah, definitely going to shout about this one. Well, that is the end of this week's show. If you have questions about marketing the right way and about consent driven, heart centered marketing, head to Tashcorbin.com. I'll pop that in the show notes as well. Thank you so much, Tash, for sharing all of your wisdom. It's always good to listen to everything you have to say. Yeah, that was just jam packed. Thanks so much for that.

[01:08:55] Tash: No worries.

[01:08:56] Bianca: And thanks to you for listening. If you like the show, don't forget to subscribe and leave a five star rating and review on itunes, Stitcher, Spotify or wherever you heard the podcast. Your review will help others find the show and learn more about the amazing world of online marketing. And don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at New Schoolofmarketing.com, where you can learn more about Tash, check out the useful links that are there, download free resources and leave a comment. About the show. Our channel. Our.