Chewing the Gristle with Greg Koch
Ken Haas of Reverend Guitars
Ever found yourself in stitches over a case of mistaken identity? I certainly have, and in this groove-packed episode, my friend Ken Haas from Reverend Guitars joins me to recount those laugh-out-loud moments. We're talking everything from Mick Fleetwood doppelgängers to the impact of Rick Vito’s undeniable charisma on Reverend's storied history. As we look back at our shared adventures, we also drop hints about the exciting collaborations that are brewing on the horizon. It's a harmony of humor and heart as we navigate the rich tapestry of the music industry together.
Strap in as we set the stage with tales from the buzzing corridors of the NAMM show, where the music community converges in a symphony of networking, product launches, and advocacy for music education. Ken and I get real about the highs and lows of industry events, including the joys of reuniting with old pals and the infamous 'NAMMthrax' that can follow. We share a candid reflection on the costs of participation, the rise of public guitar shows, and the fresh wave of young talent that’s striking a chord in the guitar world. This episode is an ode to the electric energy that fuels our passion for music and the connections that keep the industry pulsing.
Wrapping up, we tune into the nuances of musicians' gear habits, debating why one might hoard guitars but skimp on amps. From the nitty-gritty of touring logistics to the sonic shifts in concert formats, we explore the rhythms that shape a musician's life on and off the stage. Whether it's the raw power of a live guitar riff or the collaborative groove of my band, KMT, we celebrate the magic of musical connections and the timeless pull of the six-string. Prepare for an episode that strums the heartstrings and resonates with the soul of every music lover.
Dedicated to helping musicians achieve the truest sound possible whenever they plug-in.
Wildwood Guitars
One of the world’s premier retailers of exceptional electric and acoustic guitars.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Ever found yourself in stitches over a case of mistaken identity? I certainly have, and in this groove-packed episode, my friend Ken Haas from Reverend Guitars joins me to recount those laugh-out-loud moments. We're talking everything from Mick Fleetwood doppelgängers to the impact of Rick Vito’s undeniable charisma on Reverend's storied history. As we look back at our shared adventures, we also drop hints about the exciting collaborations that are brewing on the horizon. It's a harmony of humor and heart as we navigate the rich tapestry of the music industry together.
Strap in as we set the stage with tales from the buzzing corridors of the NAMM show, where the music community converges in a symphony of networking, product launches, and advocacy for music education. Ken and I get real about the highs and lows of industry events, including the joys of reuniting with old pals and the infamous 'NAMMthrax' that can follow. We share a candid reflection on the costs of participation, the rise of public guitar shows, and the fresh wave of young talent that’s striking a chord in the guitar world. This episode is an ode to the electric energy that fuels our passion for music and the connections that keep the industry pulsing.
Wrapping up, we tune into the nuances of musicians' gear habits, debating why one might hoard guitars but skimp on amps. From the nitty-gritty of touring logistics to the sonic shifts in concert formats, we explore the rhythms that shape a musician's life on and off the stage. Whether it's the raw power of a live guitar riff or the collaborative groove of my band, KMT, we celebrate the magic of musical connections and the timeless pull of the six-string. Prepare for an episode that strums the heartstrings and resonates with the soul of every music lover.
Dedicated to helping musicians achieve the truest sound possible whenever they plug-in.
Wildwood Guitars
One of the world’s premier retailers of exceptional electric and acoustic guitars.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
At long last. Ladies and gentlemen, season five of Chewing the Gristle is indeed upon us, a convivial conversation fest between myself, gregory S Caulk Esquire, and a variety of musical potentates from hither and yon, brought to you by our friends at Wildwood Guitars and our friends at Fishman Transducers, of course, both of which I've had long-standing and continuing relationships with, and I'm very grateful for their continued support in this endeavor to bring you Chewing the Dog on Gristle. We've got a bunch of fun guests, some you have heard of, some maybe not so much. It'll be a little bit of discovery and a little bit of chaos all rolled into one. Thanks for tuning in folks.
Speaker 1:Now, without any further ado, let's chew some gristle this week. On Chewing the Gristle, some people think he's my doppelganger, the mighty Ken Haas, the captain of the Reverend Guitar's ship. If you will, he's also a great guitar player, musician and just a cool cat. We had a good time chatting, as we always do, on Chewing the Gristle this week, ken Haas, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we have gathered once again for another installment in Chewing the Gristle with yours truly, gregory S Caulk Esquire. I am here today with an individual of great power and strength and facial hair. His name is Ken Haas, guitar player, extraordinaire grand poobah of Reverend Guitars and a fine proponent of the Toledo lifestyle. What's going on there, daddy-o?
Speaker 2:What's up, Greg? It's a pleasure to finally be on here chewing the gristle with you, as it were.
Speaker 1:We've chewed the gristle many times together over the last many years.
Speaker 2:We have and we will be chewing the gristle together many times this year as well, and that's not wrong. Looking at the schedule and also, I have ideas. You have ideas, other people, you know there's other people out there that have ideas for the two of us.
Speaker 1:Just the two of us. We will destroy people's minds. Just the two of us. Now, many people think that we're related, that we actually were birthed from the same womb, but in a way we are. We're from the womb of savagery. That is a common hole. Wait, I didn't mean to say that, I meant a common portal. There we go, yeah, yeah, when like-minded individuals eschew from from the other side of parallel existences in order to take on this particular incarnation with great aplomb and savagery.
Speaker 2:Well, here's a question for you because I am often accused of being related to or birth well, not birth from. But I suppose I should talk to my mother about this. But people often draw a straight line between me and Mick Fleetwood. I hear that quite often and yeah, and Fleetwood, mick, is about as big around as one of my legs, but we are tall and there is a similarity there and I've often wondered what my mom was doing in February of 1969, if, was uh hanging around with old peter green and john mcvee and the mcmahon. You know, I've tried to nail my mom down about this a few times, but uh, and she's silent. But uh did I tell you. So here's just an aside, here's a funny story. So I had uh and you've met huge fan of yours, mr robin fink yes, bless him-inch nails and guns and roses.
Speaker 2:It's incredible. But this man's career is amazing. Robin is a huge fan of the Gristle and there was one year that I had both of you guys at the NAMM show out in California and we were doing an autograph signing for Robin. It was the year we launched a signature model and it was a pretty good sized line and I was sort of standing there helping with security because people will. We we've talked about people before, right.
Speaker 1:Greg. People have issues sometimes as a company excluded, of course.
Speaker 2:And and and you will. You will see a whole line of people like waiting in line to get somebody's autograph and then somebody will just walk right up to the table, you know, and start start talking at you and it's like, yeah, you know, there's there's this whole like line thing going on here or whatever. So sometimes we have to help out, uh, in those situations. So I'm standing there while Robin is is signing and talking to be really gracious guy, really cool, and uh, a guy waits through the whole line and he gets right up to the table and then he looks at me and then he just starts laughing and he said he thought people were lining up to meet mick fleetwood and had no idea who robin was.
Speaker 1:And so I'm going funny.
Speaker 2:I grabbed a robin fink uh poster little thing, little car that we were handing out and I signed m Mick Fleetwood on it and handed it to the guy and told him to have a nice day.
Speaker 1:That's pretty damn funny. Well, our buddy, rick Vito, of course, is a longstanding associate of Mick Fleetwood.
Speaker 2:And I think that's one of the things that I've worked many events with Rick and like, rick and I will be walking down the walking around the Dallas Guitar Festival together or something, and I, rick and I, will be walking down the walking around the Dallas Guitar Festival together or something, and I will see somebody's head snap and I'll be like, yeah, they think I'm Mick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, speaking of our friend Rick Vito, he's kind of been one of the longer standing members of the Reverend Artist Armada. And if you could maybe illuminate that history and how that all came to fruition.
Speaker 2:The first signature models were Rick Vito's signature guitar and Brad Hauser's rest in peace signature bass back in 99, 2000, 2001, in that era of our company and Rick was touring in the late 90s with Bonnie Raitt playing lead guitar and slide guitar and Joe and Joe's lovely wife, kristen, joe Naylor and Kristen Naylor went to that show as a guest of someone I don't know if it was, I was not there so I'm not telling the story very accurately but it's something to the effect of Joe ended up showing Rick guitars on that tour and Rick had Joe make him a couple of.
Speaker 2:They were sort of shell, pink, phenolic-bodied early reverence with P90s in them and he loved them. And then he did a Hot Licks video with what was his name, arlen Roth Arlen Arlen Roth. Yeah, he did one of the Arlen Roth videos and played that guitar and that guitar was on the cover of it and it was one of the early things that got reverence started getting reverent, a lot of attention in that community and of course, rick is a master and his slide playing is unparalleled.
Speaker 2:And then that led to us doing the signature model, when he did a solo record, which was largely a tribute to Peter Green, of course, called Rattlesnake Shake a tribute to Peter Green, of course, called Rattlesnake Shake. And we, joe and Rick, worked out this beautiful graphic artwork that is on those original guitars. There's like a voodoo doll that says play well on the back. It's really really a very, very cool guitar, Really like EMG 85 level output, p90 pickups Ah, indeed, true, single coils, but like throwing 18, 19, 20k they were just wicked sounding pickups and it was a very, very cool guitar.
Speaker 2:And we'd made that guitar for a few years and then, around 2011, we started doing the Rick Vito Classic with all the Art Deco features and then that has evolved into a few different incarnations decided after 10, 12 years of doing sec neck guitars with us that he wanted to go back to playing bolt-ons like the original and get something closer to one of the original Reverend models but still have a wood bodied guitar. So it is a heavily chambered Carina guitar with a humbucker in the bridge and a P90 in the neck and it's got a bunch of his art deco appointments and the most beautiful checkerboard binding known to man, yes, from our friends at gurean instruments in uh, seattle, washington, they make the binding on one of those boats that floats out there in the harbor, out there, dig it can you dig it?
Speaker 1:I can dig it, you know, speaking speaking of both Rick Vito and tying in Mick Fleetwood, I actually sold my Rick Vito Soul Shaker to Mick Fleetwood. I didn't want to sell it but Rick got a hold of me. He's like hey, would you be willing to part with I know you've got one of the darker versions of the Soul Shaker. I go, yeah, I do. He goes, mick Fleetwood really wants to buy one and I thought, okay, I'll make that sacrifice. So that was pretty wild to be able to. Oh, I'm sending this out to Mick Fleetwood Out there in beautiful Maui.
Speaker 2:And I sent him one of the newer ones. You know, it's really kind of fun that he's a fan. Yes, right, I mean like he's a fan. Yes, right, I mean he's. I've never met him after all these years of working with Rick. I've never had the pleasure, but every story that I hear is very, very cool. Now, I've never gotten any stories from anybody in Fleetwood Mac other than Rick, so, right, One never knows.
Speaker 1:He seems like a good fella. He's a tall fella, we like tall fellas. We never knows. He seems like a good fella. He's a tall fella.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we like tall fellas, we do indeed. Yeah, he's part of the club. That is correct. We have our annual meetings. I'm sorry, I shouldn't be talking about it. It's a secret coven, it is it is, of which your son Dylan is rapidly on his way to becoming the president yes, he is a large.
Speaker 1:He's a large lad, he is how are you guys?
Speaker 2:feeling how was? Let's talk about you, okay. Uh, you guys just came off. A big today is what is today.
Speaker 1:Today is february 21st 2024 it is, and you guys, you it's my mom's birthday today.
Speaker 2:Oh, happy birthday. Yes, you guys just got back from the West Coast. How was that?
Speaker 1:We had a fantastic time. We timed it right in the fact that we didn't meet in the inclement weather on the way out. That's always the thing. We've done this California jaunt now a few times, maybe four times, and we always like to do it around NAMM, because you know there's NAMM and then there's. You know it's always nice to be in California when you're from our neck of the woods right In in in January. So we were fortunate enough to get south of inclement weather before there was inclement weather, and then we were in California. We stayed where our kind of our home base is, in Venice Beach. There's this really nice couple that puts us up at their gorgeous house and we do all the gigs in that area from you know sounds rough.
Speaker 1:Oh man, it's so nice and like, the day after we left is when that punishing rain came. And by then we were, we were North, we were up in the Bay area, and so we, we systematically beat the weather. So that was good, and then we actually were lucky on the way back as well. That, uh, we didn't. You know cause we took the Northern route back? Cause we were up in Portland.
Speaker 2:That's a little scary. It was a little scary, but again.
Speaker 1:We lucked out, so we made it back. But then the day after we get back I test positive for COVID. Then I get ahold of the boys and say, hey, sorry, fellas, I've got, I've got the big C. And then he and then Toby, like I just tested myself, I've got it. And then Dylan got it. So we weren't incapacitated, but I was definitely not feeling well and we had to cancel a gig this last weekend. But now I I loaded up on the Pax Lovid and I'm feeling better. So all well and good. So how did NAMM go for you guys? It looked like it was going swimmingly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was really very busy this year. They're they're trying to bring that show back. I don't know if we'll ever restore it to its former glory, but for those listening who don't know, because I know a lot of people follow you and follow this podcast from the industry itself, but a lot of people don't. A lot of people are just fans of guitar or fans of your music and they follow this thing. Uh, don't you know? A lot of people are just fans of guitar or fans of your music and they follow this thing. Um, the NAM organization. Nam actually stands for the National Association of Musical Merchants and it is a loose organization of of music stores, basically, and and and manufacturers and all industry types. And the purpose of the NAM organization, namammorg, the reason why it'sa NAMMorg is they lobby Congress for money for music education for children. That's their stated purpose, and the NAMM show itself is one of their biggest fundraisers and it is their main fundraiser, although they have a lot of smaller events throughout the year. And then they send people to Washington DC. One a really good friend of Reverend Guitarist, bernie Williams, former New York Yankee, is often sort of tagged along to go to that NAN group Because, as you're walking around the halls of Congress. Of course congressmen will open their doors for a Major League Baseball star of course you know what I mean and a lot of other celebrities get involved with it too. And it's important because you know, we as a nation we spend enough money on bombs and I think it's very, very cool that we do that. And then the idea is that we'll come back around and, as children grow into young adults and adults, they pursue music careers and buy instruments and all the things that happen, right, and so I think it's important to go and support the NAMAM organization for more than just the sort of trade show aspect of it.
Speaker 2:So when, with all of the lockdowns and all of those things that happened over the last few years as the show itself started to sort of implode, one of the things that I would hear most often from my contemporary in the manufacturing end of things and from our dealer network is well, it's just not worth it for me to go this year because there's not enough people for me to meet with and I'm not going to do enough business, so I don't feel like attending. My thought with that always is well, if everybody thinks that way and then it's just going to go away. I mean, somebody has to sort of spearhead this community in order to keep it together, and I always get something out of it. I enjoy seeing my contemporaries out there, I enjoy seeing new product, but I'm very good friends with one of the sales managers at Ibanez and I'm really good friends with uh, with like one of the sales managers at Ibanez and I'm really good friends with like Doug Tower and and the people at Rev Amps we work with and I see my, my friends and business partners at Fishman and at Floyd Rose and then uh, the the people from Mirror Music in Korea that that manufacture the Reverend stuff. We all we meet there every year and so I like to talk to people that do what I do, that aren't here with me every day, and hear about their struggles and the things that they have to deal with on a day-to-day basis, because it helps me to keep perspective on my own business and keep perspective on the industry.
Speaker 2:And so I love the NAMM show, no matter what, and this year with it back in January, where it has traditionally been for many years, when did they move it to California from Chicago 93? Yeah, it was early 90s, early 90s, 92, 93. And then, very shortly after that, it started to be this sort of January in Anaheim and July in Nashville, and now we're not doing Nashville anymore, which is fine, and the emphasis is being put on this January show, and this year was the closest it's been to 2020 since the guitar hall, basically Hall D, where all the guitar manufacturers, pedal manufacturers and stuff they put us all in our own area so that we can be loud together and it was really really loud. They put us all in our own area so that we can be loud together and it was really really loud and very, very busy. The rest of the halls didn't seem to have as much traffic as I'm used to walking around the show or whatever. I think they got close to 70,000, maybe 66,000 or 68,000 attendees, whereas in the heyday in 2020, I think it was about 125. So, I mean, the show is still roughly half of what it was, uh, but it definitely has a good feeling like it's coming back.
Speaker 2:And you were missed, you know, uh, and I'm just going to go ahead and ask you because, uh, I was asked uh pretty consistently, uh, two or three times an hour for four days. Hey, where's Greg?
Speaker 1:Hey, where's Greg? Is Greg?
Speaker 2:here.
Speaker 1:Well, it was interesting because initially I was routing out there to go to the show because my new jam pedal was going to be unveiled that I'm working on with them. But then they decided, like like many others, decided, not to come because of financial cost, uh, benefit analyses and so on and so forth. So they decided not to go, uh, and then we booked so much stuff around it, uh, that it just didn't make any sense for me to go there during the day and then hop off to wherever else we were going. You know, it's interesting because I always, I, I, if I said it once, I said it a thousand times over that week is that I really like going to NAMM and I really like not going to NAMM. So I enjoy, I've always had fun going.
Speaker 1:But you know, to be honest, I mean, over the years, that's been a very high stress weekend for me. You know, uh, you know before, um, you know, back, especially back in the fender days, when I was, when I was doing that thing, I I'd have to map out my entire year over the course of those four days and, uh, you know, kind of just set up blocks of time where, oh, I had to talk to these people about going to Italy in September. Oh, I talked to these people about going to England. Oh, my agent's going to put together some gigs in Germany at this point. I talked to these people about going to England. Oh, my agent's going to put together some gigs in Germany at this point. Maybe I can tie that in with Cliff. So by the time it was Sunday rolled around, I was like, oh my God, now I can exhale.
Speaker 1:But prior to that it was all about having to, you know, do some serious business. And then in subsequent years after that, I mean I'd be a lot of times I'd be triple dipping, you know, I'd be doing, um, I'd be doing stuff for fishmen. Uh, I'd be doing stuff for Wildwood. Uh, I'd come over by you and maybe we did a couple of shows at the uh, the slide bar and and hang out and then, uh, other different things as well. So, uh, but again to your point. I mean you're seeing all your buddies that you don't get to see all year round, and so that aspect of it's cool You're in Southern California in January instead of being in the snowy climes of Wisconsin or Ohio. So that's all well and good, but that being said, I was okay with not being there.
Speaker 1:I would have had fun if I was there, but I was okay, not being there.
Speaker 2:We only sent home. Two of our guys came home with the Cove but not all of us which is usually boy after that show. You can almost depend on being sick after that show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I heard some people getting some other illness other than COVID, some other pestilence, namfrax as we like to call it, NAMFRAX for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Penny and I escaped all of that. We took the train again this year. We hadn't done that in many, many years.
Speaker 1:And has that changed at all? Because I did that. I returned with you guys one time.
Speaker 2:No, that doesn't change. No, they don't. But they had scaled down the level of service they were offering during all the lockdowns and all that stuff. And now the kitchens are open and the dining car on the long haul trains again and the food is actually.
Speaker 2:You know, that's pretty good Way better than you expect something like that to be. Dinner is really very good and so it was really nice. A lot of service delays and stuff like that. I mean it's rail travel. You don't take it. If you have somewhere to be, you allow a cushion and bring a book to read. But Penny and I really enjoy it.
Speaker 2:It's a good way for us to spend some time together and get caught up around the busyness of the NAMM show itself, because we spend months preparing for it and then we have to come home and hit the ground running and follow up on all of the business that we were trying to create while we were there and make sure that we're taking advantage of the money spent, because it is a very, very expensive show to attend. Yes, I mean just the. I don't I, I, I understand. I know I want to be on my high horse over here and give people grief, give other manufacturers grief about not attending, but I understand because I, you know, I have a 20 by 20 booth for Reverend and a 10 by 10 booth for rail hammer pickups and just the floor space is just shy of $30,000. Good Lord, and that is just to be there.
Speaker 2:That's before you furnish it and ship your stuff out there and and ship yourselves, your employees, out there, and you know, and so you're, it is a, or then having a show and promoting a show, and artists, stuff, and, and I mean it, it adds up very quickly. So if you were, but you, I try to look at it as more, um, not just okay, did we sell enough guitars here to cover this? Uh, because that question has been answered. No, you know, for the last four or five years, I mean no, we don't physically take orders there. It used to be before the mighty interwebs, the intergoogles, what we're on right now the manufacturers would wait until they were there to unveil shows, kind of like the auto shows in the days of old. You know which is exactly which was really like stuff under blankets on setup day you know and and what is people?
Speaker 2:hiding things right, because we weren't going to sneak anything out until the show opened. And and with, of course, with the way that business has progressed over the last 25 or 30 years, our dealers want to have that stuff in hand before we announce it at the show. And people want, they want to be making, they want to have the stuff available to make their social media posts so they can jump on the excitement and everything that's going around there. So it's become more difficult to save that show for the big unveiling, which has sort of changed the flavor of things. As well. You can.
Speaker 2:The customers in our business are so engaged that you can take the message directly to them without having to do something like that, and so I can see not harboring the expense of going there. I mean, like I said, I think it's important and I like it for the reasons that I like it, but when somebody isn't going, I certainly understand, you know, and, and so who knows what the future holds for that kind of event? Um, one of the things that I'm very excited about is, uh, the number of guitar shows, public guitar shows, that Reverend is planning on attending this year. Aha, because they're starting to spring up again and I think it's an interesting time for that kind of event and that kind of venue. There are a lot of young players right now. There's a lot of, if you know, all the old guys walked around, for you know for all through the aughts and the teens Well, kids aren't picking up the guitar anymore, and this industry is gonna die and we're blah, blah, blah and all this.
Speaker 2:And now I mean I am working with such a fantastic slew of young artists, people that just completely blow me away, that are doing creative things on the guitar that like just taking it to there's. People out there that are literally taking it to the next level and doing styles of music that you and I can't really talk about because we don't really know what the hell to call it. You know? What I mean, I got you.
Speaker 2:It is. It is technically proficient and very rhythmic and very difficult and very cool. And, um, I'm seeing at the public guitar shows uh, more generations of actual musicians coming in and doing stuff and, as a result, there seems to be more of those shows popping up. So in well, next week, zach Ward, my sales manager, and I are going to Birmingham in the United Kingdom and we're going to do the Guitar Show UK, which is a great event. It's a really fun event. And then the weekend after that we are going to the guitar show in Asheville, north Carolina, which is put on by B3. They do shows in Asheville and I think they do one in South Carolina, and then they do the Philly show twice a year and the Philly show is a good one that we attend in the fall. So I've never been to this Asheville show and I'm very excited about it.
Speaker 2:There's a new one coming up this year in Sarasota, florida. That is in a beautiful, beautiful venue and I think I'm going to try to attend that in some sort of limited fashion. I'm not sure how I'm going to do that one, because I ain't going to drive. I'm driving Dallas. That's one big drive already that month, of course, jimmy Wallace's show, the Dallas International Guitar Festival. You and I will be there together. We certainly will. Reverend is sponsoring the clinician stage again this year, and so you and I have a couple of dates. I know we have some time slots on that stage Awesome Together. And then you'll be playing with Red and everybody in the Masters of the Telecaster.
Speaker 1:Correct, and then I'll have the KMT down there as well At sea.
Speaker 2:Don't you love it when the plan comes together?
Speaker 1:I love it. That's been a very fun thing to route down to every year. You know we go down there, we get gigs on the way down, we do a few gigs in Texas while we're there and route back. It's all good. I love it, yeah, I do too.
Speaker 2:Penny and I did a little of that ourselves. I think we're going to be stopping at Palin Music in St Louis on the way down there and I'm going to be doing some sort of in-store event and I'm really trying to get myself back out there more. I've got this beautiful studio up and running here at Reverend now and my guys are doing a great job taking care of that and helping us promote it and get it done. I don't do everything for that, and my sales team is doing a wonderful job around here too. Like make a emphasis on getting myself out in the public more and doing more dealer events and, you know, kissing hands and shaking babies, as it were.
Speaker 1:Gotta get out there as one does, as one does yes, so how long now have you and penny been the uh owners of reverend guitars? Uh, january 1st 2010.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 2:So as we rolled into the end of the aughts, joe, the headache of running the growing business was taking away from his creative juices. Yes, spending more time worrying about employees and taxes and and buildings and all of the jazz that goes along with this than he was actually creating guitars, and he was sort of he was losing his, his energy for it a little bit. Um, because running a business I think that people who are very, very creative minded, um, sometimes those two things are at odds with one another. And uh, I, joe. So Joe kind of wanted to get out from underneath of the business aspect of it and and talk to a couple of different people about buying the company. That, uh, that didn't interest me and I was, you know, knocking on 40s door. No, I just turned 40. That means I'm don't do the math, I just turned 40 and I loved my job and I didn't want to work for or with anyone else.
Speaker 2:And so Penny and I put our heads together and I had a. I had a business advisor at the time, really wonderful man, very intelligent guy and we sat down and came up with a plan that we could buy the company from Joe and then keep him involved as our creative director and master luthier, guitar designer going forward and basically the only thing that changed was the checkbook went from his desk to mine and then he got busy, you know, I mean, some of the very first projects when all of this happened was we relaunched a whole line of basses, we relaunched the Pete Anderson Eastsider or we launched the Pete Anderson Eastsider guitars, we launched the Rig Vito Classic. I mean, he came right out of the gate, both guns ablaze and he had all kinds of really cool ideas and and then he is doing the best work of his life right now. I feel like, you know I it's amazing how fast that you and he were able to put your guitars together. Yes, you know, he's got this thing right when you can tell him what you're looking for and what do you want it to feel and sound like, and he understands how to take that and translate it into something that you hold and feel and I, I it's wicked, because it isn't.
Speaker 2:It's more than just well, put this finish on the Les Paul with these pickups, and that's going to be my thing. We'll put this finish on this Strat style guitar and that's going to. No, we do a lot more than that, and that all comes from Naylor and his ability to really hear and then make what he hears you guys talking about into a reality. He knows the subtle little things in guitar design that change the tone of the guitarist drastically. You know different neck joints and affect the way the thing guitars resonate, and there's so many little tricks and the bottom line is we had figured out this way before 2010 to work together very well, and at that point it didn't. We didn't even say anything to anybody for a number of years because the the thing that joe and I wanted to avoid is the thing that we do in the industry, in this industry all the time well, you know, the guitars that were made before january 6, 2010 are the good ones, because that was the nailer era.
Speaker 2:But no, this Haas guy, you know and we just decided we wanted to skip all that crap and so we stayed quiet about it for a really long time, you know, until it became obvious. And even before that time I was putting my face out there as the guy who talks and I'm the one who, you know, gets out there and tries to share my enthusiasm with everybody. So, yeah, it's been great Penny's great. Penny runs all of our social media stuff and helps me with the day-to-day and it's everybody sort of has their strength and it's kicking ass and taking names.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is, by God, it is. We interrupt this regularly scheduled Gristle Infested conversation to give a special shout out to our friends at Fishman Transducers, makers of the Greg Koch Signature Fluence Gristle Tone Pickup Set Can you dig that? And our friends at Wildwood Guitars of Louisville, colorado, bringing the heat and the shadow of the Rocky Mountains, you know, speaking of Joe Naylor and just his Janay-nay, his power. As I showed you, when I was out in Portland I went into a little music store and they had a Reverend amp. Yeah, yeah and it's. I've got it right here. I bought it. I bought the head. It's the Kingsnake, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Kingsnake yeah, 2060. Yeah, those are neat. What do you think you like it?
Speaker 1:It sounds freaking awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, there, yeah. There's something that happens in the mid range on just about everything that Naylor makes. That gives them life, you know.
Speaker 1:So what was the story with those back in the day? The Reverend as opposed to the Naylor amps.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, so Naylor was early to mid 90s and so this is Joe again, sort of taking advantage of what he knows about. So with the original nailer amps, joe knew what he wanted them to sound like Like he had the sound in his head and he incorporated a gentleman from the Detroit area named Dan Russell. Dan went on to do like blitz amplifiers and a bunch of other different things and he's an incredible amp tech, went on to do like blitz amplifiers and a bunch of other different things, and he's an incredible amp tech, and he and Dan worked together to develop the circuit for the original nailer super drive amps the super drive, the super club 38, super drive 60. And um. And then Joe had a business partner at the time and they built them, uh, and this went on for a few years, but he was as he's prone to do. He was a little bit ahead of the curve and because they were hand wiring these guitars and building cabinets and everything in the Detroit area, they needed to sell them for X amount of money in order to stay open and stay in business. And of course, at the time you could buy a Marshall half stack at Guitar Center for $1,200. And it's people who are really into this. Now it's hard to imagine, but at the time it was very difficult to convince somebody that what they were doing was so much different than what Marshall and other companies were doing at the time. I mean, something with the only boutique companies that were really matchless was happening with the you know, and they're doing all the point to point stuff that they did. And so Joe kind of saw the writing on the wall and they ended up closing Nailer, I think. Joe sold it to his partner and then they sold it to a guy who limps it along now.
Speaker 2:And so Joe, but Joe, really, he went to design school and Roberto Venn to learn Luthri and guitar building and that was where his passion was. So I don't think he was so heartbroken to be getting out of the amp business back then to begin with, you know. And then he went and founded Reverend with the original Reverend models and after a few years of doing the Reverend models he decided in the early 2000s to jump back into the amp thing, got it and at this point he enlisted Dennis Kager from Ampeg and he and Dennis came up with the circuit for the Kingsnake and the Goblin the original one was the Hellhound, and Dennis came up with the circuit for the Kingsnake and the Goblin. The original one was the Hellhound, and then the Hellhound sort of morphed into the Kingsnake. Basically, the difference between the two of them, in a nutshell, is the Kingsnake you can turn down to 20 watts and the Hellhound only went down to 40. And so there's a headroom thing between those two amps and Joe felt the Kingsnake was an improvement. You know, um, I'm like a wide open guy, so whatever. But uh, uh.
Speaker 2:And then so with those amps, then he got a little ahead of the curve again. He was having the chassis built in China and the cabinets built by a company in Indiana, I believe. And then we were assembling everything at the shop in Warren and the cabinets built by a company in Indiana, I believe. And then we were assembling everything at the shop in Warren and shipping them out. And Joe was a little ahead of himself on the Chinese manufacturing of the amplifiers themselves. And now, and even for the last 10, 15 years, the manufacturing in China. The tolerances are so tight and things are so great. Like you look at, whether you like it or not, like you know, like a Blackstar is a really nice piece of equipment, and they're doing all that stuff in China, and there's a lot of stuff that's made in China and the quality is superb. Joe was having some issues 20, 22 years ago, and so a lot of the stuff was being rewired here, taking away all of the advantage of doing it over there.
Speaker 2:You're right, because Joe's plan was he wanted to do a great sounding tube amp for $699. That was the plan. The plan wasn't to make something to sell for $1,500, $1,600 and compete with the stuff that's in that price range. Like he wanted to get people into a cool tubeamp and a cool, reliable tubeamp for $699, $799 or whatever and it just didn't work out. You know, like I said, he was just a little. I think he was a little. I don't know if he would, I don't know if that's how he would put it, but that's my perception of it.
Speaker 1:Now, which amp was Rick Vito using? Rick still likes to use that little rascal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Rick has a Hellhound, and that was the first one Yep, and there's a lot of these still out there and they are a huge bargain in the used market. Yeah, cause they, you know they. I mean they really. You find them now. You know for what we were selling them for new back then. But I mean the value of the dollar is so much different now, 25 years later, um, that you know, picking up one of these amps for for that kind of money is well, I bought this thing for 400 bucks and that's crazy dude.
Speaker 1:That's awesome A 60 watt tube head with good reverb. I mean what?
Speaker 2:yeah, the. The reverbs are accutronics tanks that are easily replaceable. There's been I get an email every once in a while for somebody whose reverb failed on that and we have. I have an accutronics part number. Boom, um, we sold uh, joe sold the the trademark for those amps and the circuits and stuff to John Cusack from Cusack Effects in Grand Rapids, michigan, and he was making some handwired versions of those for a minute, maybe about 12 years ago.
Speaker 2:I have one that neon green amp in my demo room that is a goblin head, 15-watt head, which is John's version of Joe's old amp, and I don't know that he does them anymore, but I often send people to him if somebody has a repair question or a technical question or anything, because John's very, very knowledgeable and very good at that stuff. So they were cool and I'm it's another. One of my most fielded questions with my relationship with Joe is if we'll ever do amps again, and I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't ever want to say never, because the second I go, no, we'll never do that Right, then something will come along and I'll be like oh, but um, but my, my feeling on it as of today, um is still, there are so many people out there doing that stuff right that I don't know that we have anything to add. Um, joe, and I certainly and Joe certainly has a lot to add to guitar manufacturing Um, he still, he comes up with original ideas and he comes up with things that are so. He comes up with original ideas and he comes up with things that are so intuitive that haven't been done before that you're like wow.
Speaker 1:The amp world. There are so many great builders out there. Well, what's strange about amps to me is the I mean I like all kinds of different amps. I mean that's why I bought, I'm looking at you and I am seeing.
Speaker 2:What is that? A magnetone over your left shoulder.
Speaker 1:That's a Tone King Imperial. Tone King Imperial. No, that's not an Imperial, that's the Royalist. Okay, it's like two Marshalls in one. It's freaking awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and of course I see your Koch. Yes, there's those. Those are Koch.
Speaker 1:Correct it. Correct, it's caught, they're caught. And then I got a couple of marbles, I got a bunch of fenders and God knows what. But it's weird that most people will have literally dozens of guitars and like one amp. Yeah, I know, and to me it's like amp is. Yeah, buddy, it's, it's, it's like it's. It's a whole different thing. I mean, you get a whole different level of inspiration of playing with a different style of amp, you know. And of course, there's the motto of, oh, I'll just set it clean and use pedals, which is totally fine as well, um, and that's the thing, that's a different, that's the thing.
Speaker 2:That's a different. That's the thing all on its own too. It is I, I.
Speaker 2:I tour with the pair of fender deluxes that take pedals, completely different than when I'm gigging in my other bands and using my car amplifiers. Exactly Like the car, stuff does something different you know, and different speakers do different things too, and and, and. Then, every once in a while, you know we'll be somewhere and they'll be like well, the backline's provided, and then I've got to plug into a four 12 somewhere, and every time I do that I think I can't believe I ever do a gig without using a four 12. Right, Exactly Great yes exactly.
Speaker 2:And then I'm like, oh, no wait, I didn't have to bring that here, Cool, Well, there's that.
Speaker 1:And then there's oh that sounds okay in a big room and outside, but you all of a sudden you're loading it into a the village idiot or whatever.
Speaker 2:Right, right, yeah. Yeah, it's funny, I'll be loading a four 12 into the village idiot later today. Excellent. But yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:It is delightful it is. When are you going to play at the Idiot again, Greg? That remains to be seen. We need to make that happen. Yeah, we do.
Speaker 2:We need to make that happen. Plus, you should come out here and do stuff and you should come out here and jam in our studio twice a year. Fuck it, I'm ready. I got my new vehicle, my touring vehicle.
Speaker 1:I picked it up yesterday, nice, so I am ready. A new Gristle missile. Well, yeah, I'm thinking about calling this the Gristle Arc, and my new name, as the pilot of it, is Supposes. Supposes of the Gristle. Wow, I like it, but it's a new Ford Transit 350. Okay, medium height, medium length, with a custom second row of seats and a bulkhead that they put in the wrong place, and so now I'm waiting for the next bulkhead to come. That'll be right behind that second row of seats, okay, but we leave for our next tour next week, and so that'll be the christening of using this vehicle.
Speaker 1:But we did. They did supply us with a rental because mine wasn't available for that last tour. That we did. You know what it's going to work out? Just fine, it was our first foray into not having the gristle missile, toby's Tahoe with the trailer, and it is nice putting everything in one vehicle. Yes, yeah, for sure. Having that vehicle only take up one car space or one parking space? Yes, for sure. Having that vehicle only take up one car space or one parking space yes, and, and and the uh, and I have to say that the gas mileage was also less injurious.
Speaker 2:That's going to be, yeah, cause, and you're playing, you're, you're, you're like you're heading to the Iridium once or twice a year right now and just having that one vehicle is going to be nice for that gig, isn't it? Oh, totally, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, exactly, correct. Yeah, I, I love pulling into new york city with the trailer.
Speaker 1:I've done it a bunch. It's pain in the ass, oh yeah, not fun. Not fun at all, no it always happens.
Speaker 2:You worry about it, right?
Speaker 1:you're like, ah, and then you're there, and then you figure it out, right, you always figure it out well what we've done for our New York situation, because we were so paranoid about parking, is that we found a hotel in White Plains, new York, our favorite, hampton Inn, and it has this three-tiered parking lot that goes up this hill. And so, because they have backline at the Iridium, what we do is we detach the trailer and stash it where no one can see it at this hotel and then we just drive in the city, do our thing and get the hell out, and every time we've done the Iridium we find a parking space right in front of the doors where you go in. So it's, it's it's worked out swimmingly Wow.
Speaker 2:Nice yes.
Speaker 1:But what's so wild about it is that, you know, it's very hard to have an amp company only because of that thing we just talked about, whereas people will have multiple, multiple guitars, yeah, uh, but not so many amps. And that's strange to me because I think, you know, amps are, as I said, a very thing. And the other thing is, too, is that a lot of people can't make noise, even if they're on the gigs. I mean, so many people are now going with the dreaded silent stage and using all kinds of direct things to mitigate the noise on stage, which is all fine and good, sure, but but you know, the the days of, you know, having the amp do all the work, it's not as cut and dried anymore.
Speaker 2:No, it certainly isn't. I had a funny experience with the Kemper thing this year. Our latest signature effort is with a young man named Chris Freeman from the band Hot Mulligan, which is a Michigan band. They're awesome and they're touring Australia, new Zealand right now and they're about to come back and do arenas with the wonder years and a fallout boy. So they're they're in for a big winter, spring before they go out and headline again and they're, you know it's all campers, you go, it's, it's. It's an interesting thing. I I don't have a love hate thing Like most people do. You know, most of the guys our age are have very, very defined opinions about said things. Um, but I, I understand what they're doing and I get it and uh, and it's fun to watch and the setup and tear down is is amazing.
Speaker 2:No doubt yeah, and it's. It's interesting. The thing that freaks me out about it is when you go to a big club. I saw this band recently perform at a big like a 4,000 seat room in the Detroit area, the Royal Oak music theater big room, and uh, and you know how, like back in the day, you'd go see Satch or you'd go see Jeff Becker, you'd go see somebody in a room that size and you're like, well, I got to get down to the front Right, because I want to hear that signal coming out of those cabs. I don't want to hear that shit through the PA. Man, I want to hear the real thing.
Speaker 2:I want to hear the real thing. I want to hear the real thing. And with some of these bands now that use that equipment, you hear less when you get right up to the stage because the mains are kind of behind you or next to you. You know what I mean and I find that to be very, very weird and that is just a product. All the kids standing around me, they don't know any different, so to them it's not as as as strange of a juxtaposition. But for me, going to punk shows and stuff when I was a kid, I mean you know half the time that the guitars and the bass weren't even mic'd. You know, and and you just you know old school stuff like that.
Speaker 1:And it was fun. You know, it's definitely a different kind of energy. I just was telling the story. Earlier today A guy came into Wildwood. Last time I was out there and Steve, the owner of Wildwood, came up to me and said, hey, there's a gentleman here who wants to meet you and he's got a present for you. And I was like, oh, awesome. So the guy comes in, very nice fella, and he gives me this picture, nice fella, and he gives me this picture. He goes. I saw Hendrix in 1968 in Toledo, ohio, and I took this picture from the third row. So it's, it's this blown up picture and it's, you know, jimmy Mitch and Noel, and it's just awesome to behold. And I showed it to Dylan. I go Dylan, what do you notice about this picture? And he's like there's no mics on the drums. I go, that's correct. So basically you got Hendrix's two Marshalls, unmiked drum set, and then Noel Redding's phalanx of sun amps and then you know something for the vocals and that's it. Yeah, can you imagine?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. Yeah, can you imagine? Yeah, that's something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's the way it was back then. I've been really enjoying this. There's this new YouTube channel called the Belly Button Window channel and it's all. It's taking Hendrix's career a month at a time and saying what he did every day and like diary entries from people in the crew, people in the band, people that went to the show, all the reviews from that particular day from all the you know newspapers of the air. It's fucking fascinating. But the big thing back then is that they go into these places and and then you know like, oh, this is a shitty sounding room. We couldn't get rid of the buzz. I mean, it literally was the wild west where it's like yeah, all this stuff up.
Speaker 1:Oh, there's no mics for there's no PA tonight, so we'll just do drums on natural, or it's just crazy, but awesome because it just was so organic, and this is, this is all happening. Now you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's, that's incredible. Wow, that, what well you know, he's a deity, I guess, right.
Speaker 1:It's so entertaining.
Speaker 2:That's super interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's really fun to listen to, I bet, and that's cool. I'll have to check that out. You have to send me a link to that, I will. Indeed, I want to see that, I want to hear that. That's really neat. It's so funny how you have this discussion as a guitar player like who's, well, there'll never be another. Everybody says, well, there'll never be another. You know, and there won't, there won't ever be another, there will be something different. There are things that that people are into now and that there's. But you know, celebrity changes shape too, right, so it's not just, it's not just the musicians, you know, now, now, maybe at this point in our culture, we don't look at musicians like musicians were looked at 50 years ago, exactly, but something else has sort of taken that spot. But these things like ebb and flow. You know, it's very interesting, exactly, but it is. It is incredible hendrix's impact on all of us. Would we be here? Would we be here?
Speaker 2:no, absolutely not we wouldn't be here no no, yep, yeah, it's really wild.
Speaker 1:Then I've been listening to it, just a ton of bootlegs, because now you can. All that stuff's been uploaded to youtube and there was a time there where his you know, his, his stepsister who runs the experience hendrix thing, she was very they were pretty draconian as far as making sure that nothing got posted that wasn't approved and so on, uh, but they have since backed off quite a bit. So you're listening to this, you know.
Speaker 1:Description of this was a really good gig here and this is what happened there, and they played at the New York Philharmonic and they did this in the first set. And now you go on there and just punch in on YouTube and punch in the name of the gig and all of a sudden someone or if not, multiple people, have posted different you know audience recordings of those gigs. It's fucking fascinating. It's just insane. And with what? What did?
Speaker 2:an audience member, see in.
Speaker 1:Some kind of reel-to-reel mini contraption or a little cassette recorder? I don't know, it's crazy.
Speaker 2:Were you with me in Asbury Park Because I know you and I did an event together there at Russo Music Right and did we walk down to the boardwalk together. We did yeah.
Speaker 2:To the arcade building together, exactly Because you can go right in that building the stage, sort of the room that the stage is in sort of goes out over the water and that not the room that they use for the modern room, that they use for the modern room that they use for concerts. Now, now they that old room. There's like a basketball coordinator or something. Something weird is in there, you know. But it's the room that, like sid barrett era, pink floyd right, and like the first zeppelin venture into the us and and the yardardbirds, and like Hendrickson, all these people played in this room, you know, and and just to stand there and look at it and the fact that it's still there is incredible.
Speaker 2:And they have a better sounding room in that complex that I saw Elvis Costello. Well, I wanted to see. I wanted to see Elvis Costello there at one point when I was visiting Russo because he was playing in the room on the other side which is totally set up for stuff now, but back in the day these halls were just big square boxes and the echo. It's ridiculous and incredible. It's really fun to sort of stand there and just try to put a mental picture of wow, pink Floyd played in here, right.
Speaker 1:Speaking of Pink Floyd, there's in late. Is it late, 67? I think it was late 67.
Speaker 1:There was a tour that Hendrix headlined in England and the opening bands were Sid barrett, era, yeah, I think. Floyd um, the move, the move, yeah, and uh, well, of course, precursor to electric light orchestra of california, man fame, remember that cheap trick covered that too. And then, uh, also I think it was the nice which was the precursor to Emerson Lake and Palmer, it was Keith Emerson's band, okay, and what's wild is, back then, like the headliner Hendrix would do a 45-minute set tops, yeah, and so like the first band would come on and do like 15 minutes and then the second band would come on and, or actually the first band would come on and do like five minutes and then like 15 minutes, 20 minutes and then headline. It's just insane. Yeah, things like that, and like all the different Hendrix stuff over the years where I'm listening to these things, they were all like 45 minute hour shows tops, which is insane, I mean, as, as we think of, you know, headlining shows.
Speaker 1:Now there would usually be two shows a night, so it'd be like 45 minutes set. Get everybody out, new people in 45 minutes set, right, right, crazy, but it was just, it was. It was a wild West man, pretty, pretty wild. I mean, that's one of the great things when I talk about you know how things have changed when we were young and how we perceived music. I mean, yeah, it's all different and so on and so forth. But good God, as someone learning and as a student of it, it's never been a better time to have access to all of this information and all of this minutia of you know, let alone all the different actual instructional stuff that's available. Yeah, oh yeah. It just you have access to all of this. So that's why I say there's really no reason to suck at this juncture.
Speaker 2:I I was thinking about that earlier today. I I'm, um, I'm a really huge fan of this band we used to work with from canada, called the tragically hip. I just, oh, yeah, and and gordon downey from the hip passed away. Um, I think it's been six years now, five, six years ago, and you and you know you mourn that Like I can remember when he died, just being like, ah, this is a thing that I it's become such a big part of my life, their music and going to their concerts and their records and all that kind of stuff that to have that end at that moment felt like such a big loss.
Speaker 1:Oh, I get it. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And then right, because when you're a fan of something, I mean it really becomes a part of you. And then, since then, because of all of the things that you just stated, the breadth of music that they've been able to pull out of their archives and the live shows, and this singer guy went on some pretty famous rants, and these, these rants have been like during songs, you know they would have these big jam portions and then he would just do this like free flow, talk about nonsense and and all of this stuff is now being released and is coming to light and it's so entertaining and funny and it's spawning its own whole lines of T-shirts and things as they pull stuff out of the rants that this guy did, and it's really fascinating. And it's funny because it's still interesting. The guy's been gone for five or six years and I still I see them put something out and I'm like, oh, yeah, I got to check. Oh shit, that's really cool, you know, and that and and it is it's. It's because of this time that we're in, that we're, uh, we're allowed to have that kind of stuff. It's fun, it's super fun, yeah, and so I bring this up to you too. This is some stoner talk here. But um Penny sent me a thing a couple few weeks ago that I thought was really interesting.
Speaker 2:Um, talking about just like pop music in general and about how, uh, in the in the early to mid 80s, you had these like pop music hit radio stations. You know they, they play the hits, blah, blah, blah. And if you were you listen to that station, it would be non-existent for them to play a song that was more than six or eight months old. All they played was the stuff that was in the Billboard Hot 100 at that very minute, right, and that is a format that really doesn't exist anymore. That's true.
Speaker 2:I mean, if you listen to pop music stations and stuff and you are hearing stuff from the late 90s till now in like hip hop music or whatever, whatever it is that you're into, you know there's nothing that really just focuses on this minute, because we're I think we're able to with all this access that we have to media and things like that, it keeps things alive longer than it used to in our culture, right? I think so it's interesting. All of that stuff's interesting. I try not to think about it too much because then I just get lost in it. Thinking about it, you're like, yeah, because there's so much happening out there, right, and I reiterate for all the old guys who think that guitar is a dying thing.
Speaker 1:It's definitely not it's definitely not.
Speaker 2:There are so many cool things happening right now and so many just cool and innovative and creative young people that are out there doing the amazing stuff.
Speaker 1:And plus, I think, on top of that, in addition to all these new things that are coming out that are, as you said, more absolutely kind of unheard of things and permutations of things and whatnot, when people actually hear the old stuff, as done by people that know how to do it live loud and crazy, they go. What the hell is this? You know what I mean? So that that basic intrinsic feeling that we all had when we experienced live music, what got us into it to first, that still exists and so many people. I mean it's not like.
Speaker 1:I mean I, I don't know about you, but when I was a kid, it's like going to a wedding was always awesome to me because I was going to get to see a band. There's like there was a lot people would be loading the stuff in and I just like wait, oh my God, there's going to be people playing music. You know, and and those were the I would think about, you know, a church festival or going to state fair and then going to summer fest. You had all these different touch points where you got to see live music. And now it's like you don't really get to see it all that much. You go to a wedding, it's a DJ. High school dances were all live bands. Now they're all DJs, and so people are removed from it. But then when they actually experience it, they're like what the hell is this? They're like, well see, that's that thing. Yeah, right, right.
Speaker 2:And look at your career and how it's changed recently, I mean over the last five years, with the with the KMT you know, uh, the, the you spent. I mean you you've always performed live, obviously, in in multiple different situations, but but you with a steady band doing the kind of touring that you're doing now, um, it's awesome, dude.
Speaker 3:I mean like congratulations to you, it's really, really cool and and the shows are growing for you, right? I mean like congratulations to you.
Speaker 2:It's really really cool and and the shows are growing for you, right, I mean as it goes it, it's, it's picking up more steam. Um, and what are you seeing, like age group wise, uh, your shows. Now, I mean, I know what I see when I go to your shows, but what? What's your perception of it?
Speaker 1:Well, the, the, the youngins dig it. When they see it, they dig it and they start coming up more. So I think the entree is for the guitar player crowd comes out. But then when we get in situations where it's just music lovers, especially younger ones, they go crazy, especially if they're more kind of jam band-y type of folk. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Because the band is. I mean it's not, it's, you know, it's not shoegazer, you know shredding stuff. I mean there's plenty of there's plenty of tickling going on, but I mean it's groovy shit. And so, as a result, and of course, the more and more that we do it, the more that we have worked out, you know little medleys and I mean I can, you know, I get the crowd and I can sense what they want and we'll go bam bam, bam, bam bam. And they've been going berserk and it's a blast. So we've been really seeing a really good cross section of folk.
Speaker 1:And because it's so danceable, I mean once people hear the, I mean you look out in the crowd and people are like what is this? Again, most of the entree is for people who are guitar fans that have been aware of what I've been doing for a while. They come out and then they bring their friends with them, or you know what I mean. And so now it's getting into a situation where the friends of the friends of the friends all know about it and it has nothing really to do with the fact they, you know, bought a Gristlemaster or watched a Wildwood video, or you, you know, bought one of my books back in the day, or whatever you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:yeah, so uh it's, it's been a blast, yeah uh, the band is terrific.
Speaker 2:I mean, obviously dylan is a killer drummer and super fun to watch. I can watch well, I've seen you play a number of times that there's times where I just sit and watch your son but and Toby is Toby's a legend, oh yeah. No doubt. Toby. Toby is to the organ what you are to the guitar. He's a bad boy, he is.
Speaker 2:He is just, he's a creative force to be reckoned with. Yeah, no doubt, and, uh, and, and just so entertaining, I, I'm one of my bands, I have a hell of a Hammond player and he, just he asked me all the time what are we going to play with? What are we going to play with Greg again? Well, that's not what he says. Actually, you know what he says. What are?
Speaker 3:we going to play with Toby again. What are we going to?
Speaker 1:play with Toby again.
Speaker 1:Well, you know it's interesting and the thing is that to me it's always been about um, putting together the band as opposed to doing something where and a lot of guys who are in kind of in my situation, if you will, who are, you know, guitar guys that are known for this, that the next thing, and then they'll, they'll put together kind of a super group because it helps sell tickets.
Speaker 1:So they'll get name bass player, you know, name drummer, maybe name keyboard player, and on the on, on the reputations of all those individuals, collectively it becomes a good draw and of course there's always going to be a standard of musical excellence when that happens, because everyone can play. But it's not the same as a core group who just under fire, becomes this other thing that cannot be reproduced and that just takes commitment of the three individuals and giving everybody agency. That it's not just about them being hirelings, they all have a stake in the game. And then you just road rash that shit until it just becomes you know, it becomes this entity and that's that's what's so fun at?
Speaker 1:this point is becomes, you know it becomes this entity and that's that's what's so fun at this point is that you know a lot of people of course ask, because Toby plays left-hand base, when are you guys going to get a bass player? And you know, and I've got bass player buddies I might've made do stuff with Turner and he's great and we've had stuff with with Turner, with the, the trio, but the way that the trio has congealed with the way that toby plays bass.
Speaker 2:It's, it can't. It's. It's a thing. Yeah, it's a thing, it's its own thing. Yes, right, yeah, that's cool, that is so cool.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, I, I represent part of a horn section in one of the bands that I'm in and it's and it's changed the way that I approach playing lead guitar. It's weird, um, and it's cool, and the same thing. I think a lot of. I play in the ska band and a lot of ska bands have multiple horns and our band just has a trombone and I cover a lot of things that would be covered on saxophone and I play a lot of harmony on the guitar to the trombone player and then he and I, over the course of the last six or seven years, have figured out a way to play off each other and having somebody else in there wouldn't help it, it wouldn't add anything. Right, and yeah, I, totally.
Speaker 2:I don't think a bass player would add anything to the Cock Marshall Trio. Right, you know, it certainly wouldn't take anything away, you know, and it could be fun. There's always places for that. You, I saw you guys do. Uh, I'm the only time I've ever seen you play with a bass. It was brad hauser, so maybe that's not a good comparison remember brad jumped up on stage with you in the slide bar.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that was, that was wicked. Uh, rest in peace, brad. But that, that was amazing. But brad, this is a natural too. You know, he's another one of the like, like you guys. He just, oh, I see exactly where I fit in this and didn't need to be told. And then there there was, and there was exactly and then there's so many there, there's, there's. That's a rare, that's a rare thing yep yep, that playing on that level is I.
Speaker 2:I aspire to play on that level. You know, I, I, I, um, I think about editing myself more now. Now, after so many years. I also play in this band here in town that I'm gigging with this week, called the Zimmerman twins. We have a lot of members, we have horns, you know, we have uh sax and trombone or trumpet, and then and then there's the lead guitar player and rhythm guitar player and I play steel guitar, but I also play lead guitar and a bass player and a drummer and there's a lot of stuff going on and you can when you're.
Speaker 2:I'm used to playing in these big bands. Now Polka Floyd's a big band with six people, right, and I see your power trio and I'm like awesome, you know, like there's an energy to the small but the big band. Finding where you fit and figuring out what your strength is is is a. Really figuring out what to play is only half the battle, because you also have to figure out then what not to play. Right, and that's huge and that is harder. It is harder to sit there and not do anything when it's not necessary for you to do something. Then it is to figure out a part and play along with everybody. You know what I mean and I struggle with that. I mean, I know that's one of my. I don't want to just be like noodle guy over there, you know.
Speaker 1:It's all a matter of you know the listening is the most important thing Is when you find people who can listen and be sympathetic to what's going on around them. And you definitely know when you're playing with people that are not listeners. They're in their own little world, they play their parts, they do their thing and they're not really, you know, in touch with whatever else is going on. And but then you have to figure out okay, well, I know that individual is like that, so I know I need to do X, y and Z.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so where do I fit in in that dichotomy? Yeah, exactly. And for you, playing. You know cause you jump up with so many people. You're invited, you're constantly invited to play with some of the greatest musicians in the world. Mr Well, you know a little feats roll into town, so I'm going to roll by your gig after I jump up and play with legends. I don't know how many times I've had this conversation with you. I'm always like God damn, but that, that must be, that must be a thrill for you. Because basically all everybody who asks you to do that knows that you know how to listen and that's why they're asking you to do it, because if you didn't know how to listen, you wouldn't get those invites because they would be like yeah, I mean Greg's good, but I don't want him to get up here and make a bunch of noise. Well, yeah, totally, I mean that's a fact.
Speaker 1:All it takes is once by the way, all it takes is one time of that, and then we're like, yeah, that's just not someone you want to have sit in with you.
Speaker 2:Right, right. So you're obviously doing something right, because you sit in with everybody. So that's cool.
Speaker 1:Well, I just try to stay out of the way. And when they gave me the look, you know, you know it's, it's, it's. It's one of those things when you're playing, it's like you want to show your thing but you don't want to step on the people that you're playing with, right. So you just you fit in and you and you and you play what's appropriate and you, you know you take your time to do your thing, to compliment what's going on and make your statement without being like.
Speaker 3:I always use the analogy of don't don't stick your wiener in someone's ear.
Speaker 1:Try to avoid that it's it's it's distasteful and possibly illegal especially in Indiana Right Exactly. Well, listen, my friend. Thanks so much.
Speaker 2:That was a really good place to end this, because that was we could talk for hours, as we have many times before, but great to see you, great to talk with you and thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1:That was a lot of fun and I look forward to hopefully seeing you guys in the very near future. Yeah Well, we'll be seeing you at the Dallas show for sure, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So I'm traveling a lot. I'm going to Belgium for the first time next week I saw that that's going to be awesome. We're doing an in-store thing there and then we're doing the guitar show in the UK, coming back going to Asheville, and then I think I've got a little bit of a break before I see you at the Dallas show.
Speaker 1:Now, when are you?
Speaker 2:Asheville will be March, I think 9th and 10th is the Asheville Guitar Show.
Speaker 1:You know what I might actually be around that time. Oh cool.
Speaker 1:In that area. Well, hit me up. I will, because we're playing down there Rock. It Sounds good. All right, take care, my friend, say hello to the game for me Will do See you later. Bye-bye. Thank you so much, folks, for tuning in. Special thank you to Wildwood Guitars of Louisville, colorado, and the mighty Fishman Transducers for making this podcast possible. If you enjoyed yourself. Ladies and gentlemen, please subscribe and review so that people can get the word out that this is worth experiencing. Can you dig it? Thanks again. We'll see you soon and review so that people can get the word out that this is worth experiencing. Can you dig it? Thanks again. We'll see you soon, or you'll hear me soon.
