Greg Koch: [00:00:00] Ladies and gentlemen, boys, and girls, welcome.  This is a special treat. We have the mighty Steve Lukather...

Steve Lukather: [00:00:06] Oh  jeez

Greg Koch: [00:00:06] ...from his home in beautiful California. It's bright and early, but he is sprightly and ready to rock, and regale us with tales of guitar savagery.

Steve Lukather: [00:00:19] Guitar savagery...  

Greg Koch: [00:00:20] Well first of all we've got to see the t-shirt, 'cause I said, "You're a groovy cat," and "All The Cats Love Me"... 

Steve Lukather: [00:00:26] Well some people give me this stuff, you know, I mean, I don't buy it.

Greg Koch: [00:00:30] I know, believe me, I like to be a - "wardrobe by swag" is a, is a very compelling thing.

Steve Lukather: [00:00:36] We live by free clothing. 

Greg Koch: [00:00:38] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:00:40] We live on buses, airplanes, and you know, the, the, you know, the whole shit, you know, just the whole scene. 

Greg Koch: [00:00:45] Of course, but not, but not right now. 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:00:48] No, no, not right now. I have never in my life had this time off. 

Greg Koch: [00:00:53] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:00:54] My feet hurt from not wearing shoes. 

Greg Koch: [00:00:57] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:00:58] Like I'm walking around outside in the cement near my pool or whatever, and it - and the bottom of my feet look like raw hamburger right now. You know, I'm like  - I'm suffering, and then I have a bad tooth, of course, and I can't go - I have to go to the dentist.

Greg Koch: [00:01:12] You can't go to the dentist!

Steve Lukather: [00:01:14] You know. I know my girlfriend, thank God for her, she has a special friend who is a dentist that I might be able to sneak in the back door. 

Greg Koch: [00:01:22] Yes. 

Steve Lukather: [00:01:23] It pays to know people. 

Greg Koch: [00:01:25] I'll tell you what these are some strange, strange times. So what, what have you been doing to pass the time?

Steve Lukather: [00:01:31] Well, I mean, first off from as long as we're doing Wildwood Guitars - I have this, um, this is the L-4.

Greg Koch: [00:01:40] Oooooo. 

Steve Lukather: [00:01:40] You're going to get a preview. This is a brand new one. You know, I don't know if you could see this thing.

Greg Koch: [00:01:47] Oh it's glorious. 

Steve Lukather: [00:01:48] Let me see if I can get away from this. It's got a beautiful grain. I'm trying to get away...

Greg Koch: [00:01:53] Oh, I see it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:01:55] Can you see the flame? 

Greg Koch: [00:01:57] I can see the power of the flame. 

Steve Lukather: [00:01:59] Now these are the new pickups that Dudley Gimpel made for me. Now, I was using the DiMarzio's before, which are great pickups, but he said, "Look, before I retire," which is -  sadly, Dudley is retiring from building these guitars, but he says, "I got this last one for you."

This is the L-4 - the brand new, or L-5 actually. I decided not to put my name on it because who the hell wants to play a guitar with my name on it.  I'm not Leo Fender or Les Paul. What the fuck, you know. 

Greg Koch: [00:02:31] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:02:31] You know, I'm just this guy. So I figured if I put an L on that's okay. People don't mind playing that guitar with the L.  I was very honored to see some player like -  Don Felder is using my guitar, and stuff like that so I'm like - you know, people like that. 

Greg Koch: [00:02:44] Yeaaaah, I played a few of those rascals and they're delicious. 

Steve Lukather: [00:02:48] You did. I saw your piece, and you know, you sound like you on whatever guitar it is. And I found that to be true when I've, you know, had the chance to, you know, play some of my heroes' guitars.  I've played Jeff Beck's guitar.  I've played Eddie Van Halen's guitar, and you know what? I sound like me playing their guitar. 

Greg Koch: [00:03:05] Right! And that's the way it should be.

Steve Lukather: [00:03:06] Just like you sound like you play like you. You know, I like - I remember backstage the Ringo show when you came down to see me, and uh, you know, I just, you know- you played one of my guitars. You just sound like you playing my guitars.

Greg Koch: [00:03:20] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:03:20] I just wish I could play as good as you...

Greg Koch: [00:03:22] Yeah right!

Steve Lukather: [00:03:23] Well, come on, dude. You're like one of the world-class cats of all time man.

Greg Koch: [00:03:28] Ahhh...

Steve Lukather: [00:03:28] Any style, anywhere. Do you have perfect pitch. I wanted to ask you that. 

Greg Koch: [00:03:31] I do not, I have uh...

Steve Lukather: [00:03:33] You really feel like you do. 

Greg Koch: [00:03:35] You know what I have relative pitch at best, but, uh...

Steve Lukather: [00:03:39] You have a pretty good relative pitch pal. I can just tell that you'd never play a bent out of tune note, or that you'd never - your intonation is flawless, which is...

Greg Koch: [00:03:49] Ah! Well, I appreciate that, but uh...

Steve Lukather: [00:03:52] Well dude, I'm not here to tug your steak, man. I'm just telling you where it's at.

Greg Koch: [00:03:55] Well please! 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:03:59] You wouldn't want your hands on these fucking ...

Greg Koch: [00:04:01] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:04:01] ...on these meat hooks, that's for sure man.  

Greg Koch: [00:04:04] No, but those feet sound appetizing. 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:04:07] Oh dude, no - you don't even want to see this shit. You won't eat - you won't eat for a month, man. No, it looks like I put my foot in a woodchipper.

Greg Koch: [00:04:17] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:04:18] I'm going to play 'The Reservoir Dogs' theme in the background.  Anyways...

Greg Koch: [00:04:25] Well at this - you know, it's kind of a weird thing being on a, on the court team because I, you know...

Steve Lukather: [00:04:30] This is weird!

Greg Koch: [00:04:31] I like playing all the time. So if I have a, you know, if someone's like, "Oh well, what am I doing? I'm bored," you know, "What shows are on?" Right, I mean, certainly I'm watching shows and I got the kids here, so we've got to feed them.  We're hanging out, whatnot. But if I have to sit around and play guitar for - I'd like - time just elapses. So is that still the same way for you? 

Steve Lukather: [00:04:48] Yeah.

Greg Koch: [00:04:48] Do you still enjoy just sitting down and playing? 

Steve Lukather: [00:04:51] I just had a guitar in my right hand. And it's a mine - to my right, your left. Uh yeah. I'm in my little little teeny office that I have here in my house, which is just filled with just nothing but books, and guitars, and stuff.  Little chotchkies  through the years. Um, yeah, this is where I live most of the time with my comput, and my stuff, and I can listen to music, I can play to it. I'm trying to spend my time - but I'm also spending time with my children. 

Greg Koch: [00:05:18] Yes, of course.

Steve Lukather: [00:05:18] The younger children, which I have not ever had a summer off in my life...

Greg Koch: [00:05:22] Yeah. Right!

...without anything on the books. I mean, this is just bizarre for me. 'Cause I mean, ever since I was in, you know, since I was in school, living in my parents' house,  I've worked every summer.

Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:05:33] I've worked. Knock wood. Thank God, Lord Jesus for my blessings. And I'm very grateful for my career. I mean, there's a million guys better than me, but I just happened to hit at the right time and I've just never stopped.

Greg Koch: [00:05:46] Right on. 

Steve Lukather: [00:05:48] Because given this grateful - this incredible opportunity and, it's kind of hurt me to a certain extent, my personal life certainly. I mean, you know, two failed marriages, which I'm not proud of, you know, but four great kids. And I still dig my ex wives. I mean, they're great people. I don't have any problem with them, you know?

Greg Koch: [00:06:06] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:06:07] And you know, and I have a new girlfriend for the first time in 10 years, and that's made me very, very happy. So right, and I had this whole year ready to go planned out. I got a new solo record that I just finished. I'm very proud of it. It's cut live, Greg, you will like it.

Greg Koch: [00:06:23] Excellent! Yes!

Steve Lukather: [00:06:24] All live solos. All that. The only thing I overdubbed was the voice, okay. 

Greg Koch: [00:06:27] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:06:27] 'Cause I didn't know lyrics the songs.  But I did it the same day. So it was a song a day. I got eight tunes. I did an 11-minute version of 'The Low Spark of High Heeled Boys' live... 

Greg Koch: [00:06:37] Awesome.

Steve Lukather: [00:06:38] ...with Paich on a Stevie Winwood Hammond organ. I mean, I really - I took us back a ways and then we just played.

Greg Koch: [00:06:45] Excellent.

Steve Lukather: [00:06:46] And it was great 'cause we didn't rehearse. I showed up with some charts, you know, we ran the chart and made sure that was cool, and then one or two takes done, no click tracks. I wanted to see if it could be done.  Been talking about it for years. All of us guys living in this high tech world...

Greg Koch: [00:07:01] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:07:01] ...wherever there's a computer, and then you can fix anything. Um, it's almost unfair.

Greg Koch: [00:07:07] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:07:07] Because we all - well, because you use it. I mean, you know, come on. If you have a great solo and one note's out of tune, who the hell isn't going to go, 'You know, just bumped that up a little bit.' You know what I mean?

Greg Koch: [00:07:16] Yeah. Right, right, right, right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:07:17] I mean, and for that, that's great for the technology. It's not great when you can't play and you can't sing and you can get your dog to bark the you know...

Greg Koch: [00:07:26] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:07:26] ...the National Anthem,  or something like that, you know.  Which would, which would be interesting to do, but it would take a while. Uh, but other than that, man, I'm just the same as you. I've just been lucky enough to have a 45-year professional career. You know, I've been doing this since I was a kid - since high school. Me and Landau have been playing together since we were kids.  John Pierce, you know, our bass player buddy...

Greg Koch: [00:07:46] Yep.

Steve Lukather: [00:07:46] ..in Huey Lewis and the News for 30 years, you know, we've been - he worked on some of the record.  Jorgen Carlsson from Gov't Mule,  David Paich...

Greg Koch: [00:07:55] Oh yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:07:55] ...Babko, Gregg Bissonette, and myself. We just sat in a room and we cut like old school. Real people.

Greg Koch: [00:08:03] Excellent.

Steve Lukather: [00:08:03] And this was right before the lockdown. 

Greg Koch: [00:08:05] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:08:06] So I was lucky to get it - right there.  And then I cut one song with Ringo through the glass  - I had to wear the, you know, the whole...

Greg Koch: [00:08:14] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:08:14] ...it  was just weird. Sometimes I think - my doctor goes, "Look, dude, you've been on the road for 45 years of your life."

Greg Koch: [00:08:21] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:08:22] So the odds - around the world - so the odds of me getting something are slim. I'll get it. I could get it, but it's slimmer for me because I built up such a tolerance, and being on the road all my life.

Greg Koch: [00:08:34] Yeah, exactly.  The traveling definitely builds up a pretty militant immune system.

Steve Lukather: [00:08:39] Yeah, it really does. And the only time I got the flu is when I took a flu shot.

Greg Koch: [00:08:44] 'Laughing' 

Steve Lukather: [00:08:46] Oh really...? Oh wait stop right there.

Greg Koch: [00:08:47] No good deed goes unpunished. 

Steve Lukather: [00:08:48] Oh, that's great, because when you turn back a certain way, your eyes - the way the light hits your eyes, it looks like you were, like, from another planet, or - yeah, right there, right there!

Greg Koch: [00:08:58] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:08:58] Okay.  The people in the audience will be laughing right now. Alright. This is great that you called me up. You got all these fantastic guitar players and then you got me. 

Greg Koch: [00:09:06] Oh!

Steve Lukather: [00:09:06] So what do you want to talk about while I drink my fake beer. 

Greg Koch: [00:09:11] Well, what do you like to. - when you're sitting around the house, what do you like to play? Do you  - is it just like, I mean...?

Steve Lukather: [00:09:21] I don't do a lot of that. What I try to do is occasionally  - let me see if I can find something here. Alright. I'll talk to guys  like Mark Lettieri or something like that, you know, Mark from...

Greg Koch: [00:09:34] Oh yeah!

Steve Lukather: [00:09:35] ...Snarky Puppy - what an amazing player, right? 

Greg Koch: [00:09:37] He fantastic. 

Steve Lukather: [00:09:38] I go, "What are you looking at these days?" You know, he'll show me something like this.

Greg Koch: [00:09:42] Oh yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:09:43] Slominsky for guitar. You know, now a lot of this stuff's ugly sounding, and it doesn't really do much, but what it does do is occasionally - sorry, I'm making a mess here. 

Greg Koch: [00:09:53] That's all right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:09:55] Um, what it does do is trigger an idea or two.

Greg Koch: [00:09:58] Right, exactly.  

Steve Lukather: [00:09:59] You'll fall on something and go, "Oh, wow!" And then all of a sudden you'll make it your own. And you know, I don't have any specifics, man.  You know, I'm 62 years old. I just try to keep my hands on it every day. I mean, I'm not going to change the world. I didn't change the world. You know, I'm a - I'm your journeyman guitar player, man. And you know, I'll show up and play whatever you need me to do. You know, I'm just lucky enough to write 'musician' on my tax return since 1975, you know what I mean,since I was a kid.  So knock on wood on that. You know, there's so many amazing guitar players now Greg. Now, you know, being at the top of the heat there's a lot of competition. Now I'm so glad that I am like 62 and not, you know, 20 trying to make it in the music business right now. That would be tough.

Greg Koch: [00:10:45] Yeah...

Steve Lukather: [00:10:46] My son!

Greg Koch: [00:10:46] ...but you know what, as much as there are great guitar players lurking around, compared to your massive library of stuff that you've played on....

Steve Lukather: [00:10:55] Well I mean, I just...

Greg Koch: [00:10:57] ...you set the bar quite high indeed, and you're still a frightening player. But the thing about your playing is like, I'll hear a - kind of the - kind of a jazzier thing and your approach over changes and stuff... 

Steve Lukather: [00:11:09] Well, no, but see - you know, that's not fair to real jazz players man. 

Greg Koch: [00:11:13] Yeah, but that's like...

Steve Lukather: [00:11:13] I mean you got your Kurt Rosenwinkel, or something  like that,and I mean these cats - you know, are - are - you know, Wayne Krantz, or you know any of these other guys that are just like, you know... 

Greg Koch: [00:11:23] Well I think it's, you know, it's difficult to navigate changes and make it digestible without going - well, now it's taken too far into the jazz lane - and that is an art form in and of itself, and one that you've mastered.

Steve Lukather: [00:11:36] That is, I mean, that's like classical guitar. People that play classical guitar don't play like we do. 

Greg Koch: [00:11:42] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:11:42] Like, the electric guitar to them as a foreign instrument

Greg Koch: [00:11:46] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:11:46] You know? And that's a lifelong endeavor. When you're going to be a classical guitar player, you start single digit and you stay. If you're going to be a pro - the odds of being a professional classical guitar player...

Greg Koch: [00:11:59] Right! 

Steve Lukather: [00:11:59] ...make us, like, you know, give us much greater odds. 

Greg Koch: [00:12:03] Exactly. 

Steve Lukather: [00:12:05] But you know, for the different styles - flaminco is a whole other thing...

Greg Koch: [00:12:08] Right?

Steve Lukather: [00:12:09] ...you know what I mean? So each, you know, yeah - we play guitar as a vague terminology. We're rock - I'm a rock and roll guitar player.  That's how I - I have a little bit of a knowledge, you know, I studied a little bit of music when I was in school. I realized I had to do that. 

Greg Koch: [00:12:24] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:12:25] Yeah, and I'm still trying to learn, man. I think the older I get, the more I hate myself for not digging deeper when I was younger.

Greg Koch: [00:12:31] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:12:31] That's really the truth. I should have been - I should have been working on my reading when I was 10. I should have been doing this. I should have been doing that, you know, but you know what, in all  - I knock on the wood on my desk - that I've had a really wonderful career, and I'm very, very grateful for it. There's a million guys better than me. Uh, you being one of them. 

Greg Koch: [00:12:51] Ah!

Steve Lukather: [00:12:52] Yeah. And no, and I'm not trying to tug it, man. I mean, listen, I'm a humble cat man. Listen, I've had a great career. I'm very grateful for it. I feel okay for an old guy and uh, you know, and I can do a lot of different things on the spot. 

Greg Koch: [00:13:06] Absolutely. 

Steve Lukather: [00:13:07] And that is a different job requirement than say, just being a genius guitar player. Like I have to show up and not know what I'm going to do or what I'm going to do or how I'm going to do it that day. 

Greg Koch: [00:13:18] Well, let's talk about that a little bit. 

Steve Lukather: [00:13:20] Sure.

Greg Koch: [00:13:20] So how did you first started doing sessions...

Steve Lukather: [00:13:22] Mmmhmm.

Greg Koch: [00:13:23] ...what was kind of your, I mean, your mindset from both, you know, what might be expected of you, plus what kind of gear did you bring, and then how did it kind of morph when you were like doing like at the, at the heyday of doing all the sessions versus what, how you would approach it now? You know what I mean? 

Steve Lukather: [00:13:40] Well now, I mean, I'll do a session now and then for a friend or something like that...

Greg Koch: [00:13:44] Sure.

Steve Lukather: [00:13:44] ...and then it's not about money or nothing like that. Pay me you want or don't pay me at all or whatever. I don't care. I do stuff 'cause I either love the person or I love music or whatever. I generally don't have a lot of time for it because I'm doing my own stuff...

Greg Koch: [00:13:57] Sure.

Steve Lukather: [00:13:57] ...and I'm trying to be a father. I have two sets of kids. I got, you know...

Greg Koch: [00:14:02] Right.  I get it.

Steve Lukather: [00:14:02] My oldest, which are 35 and 33, and then I have 12 and 9 as well. 

Greg Koch: [00:14:07] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:14:07] And my nine year old is autistic. So he takes a little bit more...

Greg Koch: [00:14:11] Sure.

Steve Lukather: [00:14:13] ...requires a little bit more effort, but he's great. You know, it's just been great for me as a human being, to test my patience as a human being, because autism is a very unique anomaly because no two are the same.

Greg Koch: [00:14:28] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:14:28] So you can't really - and it's really funny, he only likes it's classical music. He hates rock and roll. 

Greg Koch: [00:14:35] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:14:36] Well, if I'm in my office and I'm playing my guitar, some - all of a sudden I'll come over and volume's turned off.  

Greg Koch: [00:14:44] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:14:44] And he's standing there, and I go, "Dude! You his house that we live here? It's 'cause of this shit." You know? 

Greg Koch: [00:14:49] Right. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 

Steve Lukather: [00:14:50] He'll laugh and run out of the room. You know what I mean? But you know, he - you know,  he's nine, you know. The irony is it'd be great if he'd become a great classical guitar player, or something like that. Odds are - odds are, I don't know what he's going to be. I don't know. We sit around and talk about this stuff all day long. But my son, Trev, is the only one that got bit by the disease of...

Greg Koch: [00:15:09] Right!

Steve Lukather: [00:15:10] ...guitar-ness. The rest of my - my oldest daughter's married to a wonderful cat who's in real estate and everything like that. They live a real straight life. Perfect. 

Greg Koch: [00:15:19] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:15:19] I - my son is great. He's like Mini Me. He's my best friend, and he plays great, he's a real melodic player, writes great tunes, and he does that. He's got a record coming out, uh, at the end of the year. And my youngest daughter, she's 12, no interest in it whatsoever. And my nine year old - we'll see. but at this point he only listens to classical music. Anything with a backbeat or allowed guitar he's not interested in.

Greg Koch: [00:15:47] Well...

Steve Lukather: [00:15:47] The irony kills me, but that's just the way it is, you know.

Greg Koch: [00:15:51] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:15:52] So what's up with you? What are you doing with yourself, man? I mean, you've been going on the road planing. 

Greg Koch: [00:15:57] Well...

Steve Lukather: [00:15:58] And then now - and it's great that you're out there playing and people showing up and digging what you're doing.

Greg Koch: [00:16:03] Well yeah, we had some momentum going with the trio with my son and then Toby on organ. 

Steve Lukather: [00:16:09] Great band.

Greg Koch: [00:16:09] And then COVID hit! So - but what's been fortunate for me is that so much of the stuff I do is online...

Steve Lukather: [00:16:17] Yeah.

Greg Koch: [00:16:17] So I was able to transition to doing a bunch of stuff at home. So that's been great. Um...

Steve Lukather: [00:16:23] Yeah, I love the little jams from the bedroom or wherever it is that...

Greg Koch: [00:16:27] Yeah, from my orange room. The Room of Orange.

Steve Lukather: [00:16:29] The Orange Room! You have the orange room. Right, I like that. You know, I love the sound of your guitars and amps. I mean...

Greg Koch: [00:16:34] Oh well thank you! You know, we've been having fun. 

Steve Lukather: [00:16:38] I'm happy. You're getting the attention that you deserve because great players deserve that. You know what I mean? There's a lot of cats out there, man. There's a lot of people out there trying to make a name for themselves in this business. And now it's all been put - my whole year: zero. I mean, I got these...

Greg Koch: [00:16:54] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:16:54] You know, I got these things behind me man, it's my a year at a glance, right?

Greg Koch: [00:16:58] I do love the analog calendar though. I got to tell you, I love that. 

Steve Lukather: [00:17:00] You know, I have that, but now it's all erased. All - anything that's on there now that said - it's just not there. It's gone. 

Greg Koch: [00:17:07] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:17:08] There's this song that I wrote, it's called "There's No Business." And that's the end of the song. 'Laughing"

Greg Koch: [00:17:15] 'Laughing' So what  are you hearing from like the Ringo camp? And you know your personal...

Steve Lukather: [00:17:20] I saw him through the glass the other day. I mean, we were showing up, like, you know, I'm working on my record - it was the last song I had to cut on my record, and I wrote it - I wrote a real 1965-era song, and he had to play on it. 

Greg Koch: [00:17:34] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:17:34] And I'm honored and lucky enough to call him a dear friend. And he said he'd do it for me. And we did the, you know - we did the whole thing through - he was in one room,  I was in another room. I mean, he's 80 - he's going to be 80 years old and stuff. I mean I can't...

Greg Koch: [00:17:48] That's crazy. He looks great.

Steve Lukather: [00:17:49] I'm - no. I was talking to him on FaceTime the other day, and he's running on the treadmill at full blast. At 80 years old, I'm going, "You know, I ain't worried about you. I'm worried about me."

Greg Koch: [00:18:01] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:18:02] But he said he would do it through the wallfor me, so I could finish this and now I'm mixing it over the phone. You know, I have speakers here, but there's a certain point where you have to be in the room.

Greg Koch: [00:18:14] Right, exactly. 

Steve Lukather: [00:18:15] You have to be in the room, and I just do the final tweaks. I'm not going over the top with it all. It was recorded really, really great by my friend, Ken Freeman, and, um, no overdubs. I mean, I did a few minimal overdubs. I have two songs that I layered, and the rest of it's all live. But some of it I had to just put - you know, there just had to be bunch of guitars on it, but...

Greg Koch: [00:18:34] Sure. 

Steve Lukather: [00:18:35] I can't help myself. But - or no,  it was just done. And then I don't know what I'm going to do. I mean, the band is toast right now. Um...

Greg Koch: [00:18:42] I mean is anyone saying we're thinking, you know - 'cause, you know, we had a tour plan for the fall and needless to say it's not happening...

Steve Lukather: [00:18:48] That's terrible.

Greg Koch: [00:18:49] But from your point of view are people saying, "Well, we're looking at a year from now..."

Steve Lukather: [00:18:53] Yeah.

Greg Koch: [00:18:53] "Where we're going - it can be safe again". Or...

Steve Lukather: [00:18:55] Well, I'm looking - I'm looking. Okay, and I do underline, quotation marks...

Greg Koch: [00:19:02] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:19:02] Looking at Australia and New Zealand in - possibly in April next year. 

Greg Koch: [00:19:11] Yep. Got it. Yep. 

Steve Lukather: [00:19:12] You know, that's a hope.

Greg Koch: [00:19:14] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:19:15] I'm crossing everything in my body right now that's crossable because I'm not only - because, you know - I save money. I don't spend money on myself. I don't do, you know - those days are over. 

Greg Koch: [00:19:29] Right, right. I understand.

Steve Lukather: [00:19:30] You know, and I just want to work. I want to play. 

Greg Koch: [00:19:35] Yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:19:35] I'm not - it's not - I'm not used to not being - "Okay, I'm leaving in a week, or  in a month. I go, and then we're going to be gone for three months, and then it's this and all the way up for two years in advance." I'm not used to having zero.

Greg Koch: [00:19:50] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:19:51] And I'm no different than you or anyone else out there right now going - if you're a musician right now, it's terrifying. 

Greg Koch: [00:19:59] Yeah. Yep.

Steve Lukather: [00:20:00] Because even if you have a club gig or something like that, you know, it's nothing, man. 

Greg Koch: [00:20:06] Yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:20:06] And what I'm scared of when it comes back, a lot of these guys are going, "Well, I don't have any money..."

Greg Koch: [00:20:14] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:20:14] You know what I mean. "I can't pay you." I - you know, right now we're way - it's just scary. What could happen to us.

Greg Koch: [00:20:23] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:20:24] You know what I mean? We're like, in that like sports is going to go before us. 

Greg Koch: [00:20:28] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:20:29] Like, they're going to test sports in arenas and stadiums, and all this stuff, nd if that works, then they'll talk about bringing musicians back. So we're the lowest on the totem pole. 

Greg Koch: [00:20:39] Right, exactly. 

Steve Lukather: [00:20:40] Which - and for us, considering that it's still a hundred bucks a night to play in a club. I mean, what the fuck is that? 

Greg Koch: [00:20:49] Ha!

Steve Lukather: [00:20:49] Talk about no cost of living increase. 

Greg Koch: [00:20:53] That's a fact.

Steve Lukather: [00:20:54] You know what I mean? It's like, come on guys. 

Greg Koch: [00:20:56] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:20:56] And it's like, "Well, this will be good for your exposure." 

Greg Koch: [00:20:59] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:20:59] I go, "So will your plumbing job in my house."

Greg Koch: [00:21:02] Right!

Steve Lukather: [00:21:02] "Come to my house, and you redo all my plumbing. I'll tell all my friends..."

Greg Koch: [00:21:06] "I'll tell everybody!" Exactly.

Steve Lukather: [00:21:07] You know what I mean, and - except doesn't work like that. They come over to your house and they see go record on the wall and go, "Oh man, can I get some free tickets to your show me?" I go, "Yeah, can I get some free plumbing?"

Greg Koch: [00:21:18] 'Laughing"

Steve Lukather: [00:21:18] And the conversation changes. 'Laughing'

Greg Koch: [00:21:21] You know, we had a window guy that we were talking to about maybe doing - we had this old - this  house is old, 1908, and all the windows are old. And so this guy gave us a quote on windows, and we're having this little Zoom meeting with this guy from the window company. And he's like, "Are you ready for the quote?"

Steve Lukather: [00:21:36] Oooh!

Greg Koch: [00:21:36] I'm like, "Okay, yeah." And so I write down on a piece of paper how much I think it's going to be, and my wife writes down - and it's like, way more than that. And we're like, "Jesus, what are you - what are you talking about?" He's like, "Hey, listen with windows, whatever you think it's going to be - it's going to be double that, plus five grand." I was like, "Fantastic. I just found my new negotiation tool. Whatever you think is going to be - double it, and add five grand and I'm yours." ' Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:22:01] I like that.  I like that. You know, I think that works. But I don't understand why people don't think musicians have a real job. 

Greg Koch: [00:22:10] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:22:11] What other job - in the last seven years of my life...

Greg Koch: [00:22:14] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:22:14] ...I've been awake 2000 days from my home, from my children. 2000 days.

Greg Koch: [00:22:21] Yep. 

Steve Lukather: [00:22:21] Okay. 

Greg Koch: [00:22:22] Yeah. 

Steve Lukather: [00:22:22] That's not a commitment. 

Greg Koch: [00:22:24] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:22:25] You know what I mean? I mean, here's the thing I could say no, but who says no to Ringo Starr? 

Greg Koch: [00:22:30] Yeah, you don't. That's not an option 

Steve Lukather: [00:22:31] You know, who says no to a fucking, like, you know, going on the road and making a bunch of money with my old pop rock bands. You know what I mean?

Greg Koch: [00:22:39] Right, right, right.

Steve Lukather: [00:22:40] You know, and, uh, you know, I - you can call the music wherever you want. I get to play all kinds of music every night with great players, and I don't care if you hate me or not.

Greg Koch: [00:22:47] Absolutely. 

Steve Lukather: [00:22:48] But you know, I'm just happy to still be alive and doing this. And, um, thank you very much for having me on your show. Is there anything else I can leave you with? Anything you want to ask me?

Greg Koch: [00:22:59] No, I was just gonna ask you about, uh, from a geeky point of view - uh, let's, you know, talk about - when you're doing, you know - in the height of your session career, when you're doing multiple sessions a day and whatnot, you know, what kind of stuff are you bringing? What is expected of you? Do you have kind of the thought of...

Steve Lukather: [00:23:18] Oh well it started out different.  Back in the old days it was like, you know, a Deluxe, 335, a Les Paul, a Tele, you know, to have - and then have acoustic guitars ready to go. Uh, and you'd have to have all the little - the latest gear...

Greg Koch: [00:23:36] Oh yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:23:37] ...the latest little pedals. Before any of this - the Bob Bradshaw scene.

Greg Koch: [00:23:41] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:23:41] My, um - Buzzy Feiten was the first person I ever saw with a Bradshaw rig, and that would be, like, the late '70s. Michael Landau had the second one, and I said, "I gotta have one of these things." 

Greg Koch: [00:23:53] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:23:53] I did a session with Mike, and he had all this stuff, and it was this great sound, and I'm like, "Damn!" I was still using just old school stuff. 

Greg Koch: [00:24:01] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:24:01] Just plugged in to the amp, you know what I mean? Just through like a throw-up mic.

Greg Koch: [00:24:04] Which probably sounded fantastic.

Steve Lukather: [00:24:06] It was great. But you know, as time went on - now, here's the bad part. Please excuse my pug dog .

Greg Koch: [00:24:14] Oh! Savage beast. 

Steve Lukather: [00:24:16] The savage pug dog beast, like the talking dog from 'Men In Black'. You know what I mean? It's that dog.

Greg Koch: [00:24:23] 'Laughing' Exactly!

Steve Lukather: [00:24:24] You know,  perfect for me. No, back in the old days, it was just - you know, the simplicity of it all. 

Greg Koch: [00:24:30] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:24:30] Like, you know, you listen to Larry Carlton on Joni Mitchell's "Court And Spark', and that's just like - you know, Larry threw up like a, Deluxe or, you know, something small - a small amp, you know what I mean?  It doesn't get any better than that. 

Greg Koch: [00:24:47] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:24:48] You know what I mean? 

Greg Koch: [00:24:49] I hear you.

Steve Lukather: [00:24:50] All the old, guys - you look at Graydon who was like - you know, does a solo with a Deluxe.

Greg Koch: [00:24:54] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:24:55] And he always used that - uh, what is that, the thing on a guitar - it was Ernie, not Ernie Ball. Umm...

Greg Koch: [00:25:04] The Doug Armstrong, Dan Armstrong...

Steve Lukather: [00:25:06] Yeah, the Orange Squeezer. 

Greg Koch: [00:25:07] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:25:08] That was the - Jay Graydon had that on his guitar at all times. 

Greg Koch: [00:25:13] Oh there... 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:25:17] This is Potato. This is - my daughter named her Potato. I don't know.

Greg Koch: [00:25:22] 'Laughin'  What a majestic beast. 

Steve Lukather: [00:25:27] Tater - Tater. She's a sweet dog.

Greg Koch: [00:25:28] That's a good dog. 

Steve Lukather: [00:25:29] Um, every home should have one. 

Greg Koch: [00:25:31] Absolutely. 

Steve Lukather: [00:25:32] Anyway, ask me some more guitar geek questions. You know. I wish I had some other stuff, you know?

Greg Koch: [00:25:39] Did you have people cart right away, or was that like a later thing, how'd that go?

Steve Lukather: [00:25:43] Oh well cartage was big, especially in LA because there were studios all over the place. 

Greg Koch: [00:25:47] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:25:47] And I could be - I used to have a couple sets of gear. 

Greg Koch: [00:25:50] That's what I thought. 'Cause if you're someplace in the morning, you gotta be some place else...

Steve Lukather: [00:25:54] We used to do, you know, I mean, like we were doing a lot of sessions at the time, you know, 20, 25 sessions a week. So you'd see a lot of the same guys, and this is the best times in my life. 

Greg Koch: [00:26:06] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:26:06] I mean, and I wrote about it in my book a lot, you know. 

Greg Koch: [00:26:09] Which by the way, everyone needs to get. "The Gospel According To Luke". Fantastic. 

Steve Lukather: [00:26:14] 'Laughing' Well it's...

Greg Koch: [00:26:14] I actually got the audio version, so I would go for my walks in the morning and I'd be hearing you describe your various  activities.

Steve Lukather: [00:26:21] 'Laughing' 

Greg Koch: [00:26:22] Fantastic. 

Steve Lukather: [00:26:24] I laugh at my own jokes. It's terrible, man. 

Greg Koch: [00:26:27] That's fantastic. You gotta! Well I was also interested on that - is how much - how weird is it to have your own autobiography in terms of - you're talking about this stuff you have people calling up going, "Well that's not exactly the way I remember it." Or were there things that you really wanted to put in that you couldn't because they were just...

Steve Lukather: [00:26:44] There was a lot of things I couldn't put in. 

Greg Koch: [00:26:46] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:26:46] I just couldn't because it would - I just couldn't.

Greg Koch: [00:26:51] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:26:51] I leave it at that. 

Greg Koch: [00:26:52] Yes.

Steve Lukather: [00:26:53] Uh, and I wouldn't. I didn't want to write a book that was going to mess with people or...

Greg Koch: [00:26:58] Sure, of course.

Steve Lukather: [00:26:58] ...or put them down,or you know, hurt people's personal relationships, and that sort of thing, you know.

Greg Koch: [00:27:05] Right, right.

Steve Lukather: [00:27:05] Uh, no, that's not what I'm in to. Uh, and a matter of fact, not one person called me and said, "That's not how it was." I got a lot of -  like Steve Porcaro, when people like that say, "No, thanks. That is how it was..."

Greg Koch: [00:27:17] Yes.

Steve Lukather: [00:27:17] "...and that's the whole story." Because we can never tell this story because, um, the Toto story will never be told because of Jeff Pocaro's widow. I mean, she won't allow - unless she has full control of everything.

 Greg Koch: [00:27:30] Ah, that's too bad.

Steve Lukather: [00:27:31] I've got to a point - to - the point in my life where I only want work and be around people that -that I get on really well with, and that we're friends, and we're doing this, you know. Because - you know, the music business is in a very strange position right now, as you well know - in terms of what they play on the radio, what kids think is music. I mean we were listening to the "Close To The Edge when we were 16. What is a 16 year old kid listening to now?

Greg Koch: [00:28:02] God only knows.

Steve Lukather: [00:28:03] Yeah, you have like 20 writers and the lyrics are, "Motherfucker. I got a big ass."

Greg Koch: [00:28:08] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:28:08] There's 20 writers. And then you have "Bohemian Rhapsody" written by Freddie Mercury. 

Greg Koch: [00:28:13] Right? Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:28:14] You know what I mean? 'Laughing' You know, there's of a difference in the compositional content.

Greg Koch: [00:28:21] Yes. 

Steve Lukather: [00:28:21] You know what I mean? 

Greg Koch: [00:28:23] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:28:23] You know what I mean, even though it was very operatic and very influenced by others -

Greg Koch: [00:28:27] Sure. 

Steve Lukather: [00:28:28] - we're all influenced by everything.

Greg Koch: [00:28:30] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:28:31] And you go, "Whoa, you have your own style." I'm like, "Your style is an amalgamation of everything you've ever loved." 

Greg Koch: [00:28:37] That's true.

Steve Lukather: [00:28:38] Put into one body. And that's the same with me. The same with anybody. Same person. You go, Oh, it's a Larry Carlton. "Oh my God. You're my favorite guitar player in the whole world." Or you go to Lee Ritenour.  "I've never heard anybody play gut-string like that forever - you're fucking legendary." You know what I mean? It's like, "Well, that's just why I play." It's just like the way you play. 

Greg Koch: [00:28:58] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:28:58] When you pick up your instrument, you go like, "Well, I guess I'm going to play like Greg Koch now."

Greg Koch: [00:29:03] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:29:04] That's just what you play like. You know, and some of the crazy whacked out shit you do, when you do your - your talks over the, you know...

Greg Koch: [00:29:12] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:29:13] ...your demonstrations in the - you have a lot of humor in your play, which a lot of people don't have. And they think that that's not cool or something like that. 

Greg Koch: [00:29:23] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:29:23] Like, to have a little bit of humor, uh, when you like you quote something...'unintelligible' 

Greg Koch: [00:29:29] Well you know you play like you are, you know what I mean? It's like you play...'unintelligible'  

Steve Lukather: [00:29:31] Well yeah, and  a weird guy and, I love you for it. 

Greg Koch: [00:29:34] Is that wrong? 

Steve Lukather: [00:29:34] No, but the thing is, I mean, the way you talk, the way - it's funny, but it's informative and it's - and you'll learn something, and you just see that it's you. And really what  you're doing - you play all these instruments from a 335 to a, you know, to your guitars, to any old Les Pauls or anything, and really the bottom line is you sound like you. Now these are great instruments, and there are little quirky-nesses to them...

Greg Koch: [00:30:01] Absolutely.

Steve Lukather: [00:30:01] ...that have a tone. A Tele sounds like a Tele and stuff like that, you know.

Greg Koch: [00:30:05] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:30:05] But it makes you play different. 

Greg Koch: [00:30:07] Absolutely. 

Steve Lukather: [00:30:07] When you think of a Telecaster, you don't play the same way you do on a Les Paul. 

Greg Koch: [00:30:11] No way.

Steve Lukather: [00:30:11] No, you go for different licks right away. 

Greg Koch: [00:30:13] Exactly.

Steve Lukather: [00:30:14] 'Cause it has that sound, that spank that you love, you know?

Greg Koch: [00:30:18] Exactly.

Steve Lukather: [00:30:19] And there's some guys that do that. You do it, and there's some guys that just do it so good. Like, you know, you're Albert, your - a lot of the country guys - you know, some of the sick-ass country guitar players, they're all...

Greg Koch: [00:30:31] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:30:32] And they're just - these bluegrass guys just jaws drop...

Greg Koch: [00:30:36] Oh, it's insane.

Steve Lukather: [00:30:36] Jaw-dropping. You just go, "It should be - you shouldn't be allowed to be that good." You know...

Greg Koch: [00:30:42] 'Laughin'

Steve Lukather: [00:30:43] Even when you look at the old Chet Atkins...

Greg Koch: [00:30:47] Oh my God!

Steve Lukather: [00:30:48] Where he's playing through like a tape delay.

Greg Koch: [00:30:51] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:30:52] The actual tape machine.

Greg Koch: [00:30:54] Yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:30:55] And he's playing "Mr. Sandman", or something like that.

Greg Koch: [00:30:57] Right!

Steve Lukather: [00:30:57] And it's just stunning.

Greg Koch: [00:31:00] The Chet stuff is...

Steve Lukather: [00:31:02] Yeah and he takes a cheesy little tune like that and it makes it so hip. 

Greg Koch: [00:31:06] Exactly. 

Steve Lukather: [00:31:06] You know what I mean? And that's when, you know - and he makes it ook like it's effortless.

Greg Koch: [00:31:10] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:31:11] Like, "Oh, this is nothing". And then you try to play in this flop sweat. 

Greg Koch: [00:31:15] Oh my God... 

Steve Lukather: [00:31:16] Wait well you have that. I don't have that. I mean, you know, you have that style. I mean, you've studied it obviously like, you know...

Greg Koch: [00:31:24] At one point I just forced myself to - 'cause I thought - you know, I would see people do that stuff - you know, the Chet thing and the Merle thing, and I thought, "You know what? Before I die, I gotta learn how to do this crap." Because - you know, I saw people like...

Steve Lukather: [00:31:37] Beautiful!

Greg Koch: [00:31:37] ...Doyle Dykes sitting by themselves, and being able to play something by their lonesome.

Steve Lukather: [00:31:42] Yeah, that's the thing...

Greg Koch: [00:31:44] 'unintelligible' ...I want a little bit! 'Laughin'

Steve Lukather: [00:31:47] I know what you're saying when - like, I love these guys that can sit down and just play by themselves.

Greg Koch: [00:31:52] Yep.

Steve Lukather: [00:31:53] A guy like Rodney Crowell. 

Greg Koch: [00:31:55] Oh, yeah. 

Steve Lukather: [00:31:55] That can sit down and play you these beautiful storytelling songs...

Greg Koch: [00:32:01] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:32:01] ...that memorize you. And it's just one guy.

Greg Koch: [00:32:04] Yes!

Steve Lukather: [00:32:04] 'unintelligible'... and playing and singing these songs from the heart, from his childhood. That's the stuff that moves me. 

Greg Koch: [00:32:11] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:32:11] That's like country music. 

Greg Koch: [00:32:13] Yeah, yeah. 

Steve Lukather: [00:32:14] Not Rock 'n Roll with a pedal steel.

Greg Koch: [00:32:17] Right? Exactly. I hear you.

Steve Lukather: [00:32:18] You know, that whole thing that they do now. That's realy... 

Greg Koch: [00:32:22] Yes, it's difficult...'unintelligible'

Steve Lukather: [00:32:24] It's not to country music, really. It's not George Jones. 

Greg Koch: [00:32:29] No. 

Steve Lukather: [00:32:29] Hank Williams...

Greg Koch: [00:32:29] It's not Johnny Cash.

Steve Lukather: [00:32:31] You know? It's not Johnny Cash. It's not any of that. You know? 

Greg Koch: [00:32:34] No...

Steve Lukather: [00:32:35] Those guitar players that have - you know, when they'd hit that low drop D-D down there...

Greg Koch: [00:32:42] Oh yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:32:42] Yeah you just go, "Oh yes, that was the perfect lick." You know?

Greg Koch: [00:32:46] Yes, indeed. What are you gonna do?

Steve Lukather: [00:32:49] James Burton and all those cats that tended end to play all this crazy great stuff that you just go, "That's a style." 

Greg Koch: [00:32:57] Indeed.

Steve Lukather: [00:32:58] And then you have a guy like Andy, you know, Andy McKee.

Greg Koch: [00:33:02] Yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:33:03] Takes things and does it a completely different...

Greg Koch: [00:33:06] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:33:06] I got turned on to him because he did a version of one of our cheesy songs, "Africa", and uh...

Greg Koch: [00:33:11] That's a great song, by the way.

Steve Lukather: [00:33:13] Well, thank you. Anyway, what I'm saying is, like, he did a version of it in his style. And it got sent to me, and I was - and I found it. I said, "Dude, this is incredible. You have such a unique style." And then he got turned on to Ritenour and all these other people and he's made a career. And I am, you know - I just love to see greatness spread around. You know?

Greg Koch: [00:33:35] You know what was one of my all time favorite tunes was the - was that "Pamela" tune. I just loved that tune back in the day. That record twanked.

Steve Lukather: [00:33:41] 'Laughing'  Thanks man.

Greg Koch: [00:33:44] It was just...

Steve Lukather: [00:33:45] I was proud of that record - "Seventh One" record. That was - that was - we worked hard on that record. I mean, it was George Massenburg, and uh, Billy Payne co-produced it with us.

Greg Koch: [00:33:54] Ah, yes. 

Steve Lukather: [00:33:55] And, uh - you know, from Little Feat. And, uh...

Greg Koch: [00:33:58] Yep.

Steve Lukather: [00:33:58] We just say -  it was a different energy back then. We were coming - we really wanted to give it our all, you know, and we really spent a lot of time and money on that record. 

Greg Koch: [00:34:07] Yeah, there's a lot of goosebump moments on that record when you crank it up. There's - there's - there's power.

Steve Lukather: [00:34:14] You're very, very kind, Greg. I appreciate that. I just want you to know.

Greg Koch: [00:34:18] Plus that was - when that record came out I was listening to it alot. That's the same summer I met my lovely wife. So there's a lot of good memories attached. 

Steve Lukather: [00:34:25] Is her name Pamela by chance? 

Greg Koch: [00:34:27] No, it's Sarah. But that's a great name. 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:34:30] Now you guys have been together for how long?

Greg Koch: [00:34:36] 30 - yeah. Yeah. Well we've been married - it'll be 26 years this year. 

Steve Lukather: [00:34:43] You'd better not forget, man. 

Greg Koch: [00:34:45] And then we were together five years before that. So, a long time.

Steve Lukather: [00:34:48] So you know what real love is. 

Greg Koch: [00:34:50] Well, yeah. You know what? 

Steve Lukather: [00:34:52] That's good, man. That's a good thing. It's very rare. 

Greg Koch: [00:34:54] It turned out alright.

Steve Lukather: [00:34:55] It took me three times. I mean, I've had a lot of girlfriends in my life, but I've only been married twice. Um, and I met a great girl that I'm in love with right now, so... 

Greg Koch: [00:35:05] Excellent. 

Steve Lukather: [00:35:06] So that's a good thing. Um...

Greg Koch: [00:35:09] I've got another guitar geek question for you. 

Steve Lukather: [00:35:10] Yeah, yeah, yeah, what's up?

Greg Koch: [00:35:12] So I'm just curious as you. - obviously, because I've heard you play over changes magnificently...

Steve Lukather: [00:35:19] Oh come on.

Greg Koch: [00:35:19] ...which is something that, you know, I knew you say, "Oh, I'm a rock guy." But you know, what a rock guy is someone who doesn't know how to play over changes. But someone who knows how to play over changes, but understands how to rock - that's like - then you're narrowing the scope of individuals dramatically. 

Steve Lukather: [00:35:34] Oh, really? I want to get - there's a new song on my new solo album thatJeff Babko wrote for me. And it's a very Jeff Beck-ish kind of a  thing, and I'm proud of it because it's one take. It's - the whole thing is one take. And I've discovered a little bit of a sound I've been trying to work on, which is, you know - it's of course -  it's a nod to Jeff Beck because it's like - that's my all-time hero.

Greg Koch: [00:35:59] Yeah. 

Steve Lukather: [00:36:00] And he's also a - you know, he was a friend. I produced a record on him that never came out.

Greg Koch: [00:36:03] Yeah, I know, it's - it was in the book. Yep.

Steve Lukather: [00:36:05] Yeah, um, and that's a whole other story for another time. They want me to write another book, ironically enough - "The New Testament". 'Laughing'

Greg Koch: [00:36:17] 'Laughing'  Well when you're going to  - if you go into a session, and you're listening to the demo, or they put the chart in front of you, and there are a - some chords that you know you're going to have to navigate over - um, is there any like quick things that your mind goes to? Is like, "Okay, well this part here..." You know - I mean, granted, there are -  I remember I would always be in a situation where at some point when I was younger, I thought, "Well, at some point you just know how to play over changes."

And then at some point I was like, "No, you actually have to know the tune. You have to know the changes." 

Steve Lukather: [00:36:50] Well here's the thing...

Greg Koch: [00:36:50] I mean, yeah, there's some similarities, but - well, how do you look at playing over changes in a hurry? 

Steve Lukather: [00:36:55] Well, here's what I do that other guys don't do. I never sat down with "The Fake Book". I never transcribed  Charlie Parker solos.

Greg Koch: [00:37:02] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:37:02] I never did any of that. What I did do was study harmony and theory. 

Greg Koch: [00:37:07] Okay. 

Steve Lukather: [00:37:07] And I know common tones, and I know all that stuff, and all that - um, the way I approach changes - you won't hear a cliche bebop, like per se.

Greg Koch: [00:37:19] Which is great!

Steve Lukather: [00:37:19] Well, like a two-five-one Joe Pass turnaround, or something like that.

Greg Koch: [00:37:24] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:37:24] Which I wish I knew by the way. Um, I'm just trying to find a different way to do it. That a guy like that, who would have those kind of chops in their wheel house - you know what I mean? That would just be an easy go-to. "Oh, well this two-five-one turns around.." Just like you know a blues licks going to work. 

Greg Koch: [00:37:41] Right, right, right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:37:42] You know what I mean? I just never learned it like that. So my choices of notes to go over a different chord change - a  key change,say. Um, I would not go to a bebop-ish kind of  a thing. 

Greg Koch: [00:37:56] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:37:56] I would try to find a common tone, or I would try to find something that is not the obvious thing. And that's not because I'm trying to, that's just 'cause that's the only way I know how to do it.

Greg Koch: [00:38:06] I understand. Yep.

Steve Lukather: [00:38:07] You know what I mean?. I like - I learned it wrong and backwards. Like, I learned how to play first, and then I learned how to read, which sucked, because - again, you know, here I am being able to play, and then having to try to read "Mary Had A Little Lamb".

Greg Koch: [00:38:21] Right. 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:38:22] Or to that level of reading.

Greg Koch: [00:38:23] I understand.

Steve Lukather: [00:38:24] You know what I mean? "Every Good Boy Does Fine", and all that. ' Laughing"

Greg Koch: [00:38:29] 'Laughing" Well we had talked about that. The first time we hung out, we were - I asked you about, you know - it's kind of one of those things - those session myths...

Steve Lukather: [00:38:40] Oh, okay come on!

Greg Koch: [00:38:41] "That Lukather, he could probably, he could probably read the, you know, the..."

Steve Lukather: [00:38:44] No, no, no, no, no. 

Greg Koch: [00:38:46] You know, and there's like the guys that do that, and then there's guys that are expected to come in and play cool shit - that are memorable parts and solos.

Steve Lukather: [00:38:54] That's what I did. 

Greg Koch: [00:38:55] Exactly.

Steve Lukather: [00:38:55] I did not. I didn't - they didn't hire me because I was the best reader in town. Ask anybody that sat next to me. I would always sit next to Dean Parks, or somebody brilliant like that. And then when the gut-string part would come out, all written out, I'd go, "Dean, there's something wrong with my part. I think it's yours."

Greg Koch: [00:39:15] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:39:16] 'Laughing'

Greg Koch: [00:39:16] Fantastic.

Steve Lukather: [00:39:17] And he can read anything. 'Cause, you know, what people don't know is Dean was a sax player. 

Greg Koch: [00:39:22] Okay. 

Steve Lukather: [00:39:22] And David Hungate was a trombone player. 

Greg Koch: [00:39:24] Ah!

Steve Lukather: [00:39:24] So he had his, you know, his bass cleft together. 

Greg Koch: [00:39:31] Right. Got it.

Steve Lukather: [00:39:32] So he came and played bass. He's also a really good guitar player. On that old Johnny Smith...

Greg Koch: [00:39:37] Ahhhh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:39:37] ...kind of like, you know, old school - you know, quarter note changes. 

Greg Koch: [00:39:42] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:39:42] Johnny Smith kind of s. You know what I mean? All that wonderful rhythm guitar playing back in - when the drummer used to sit in - you know, when the guitar player used to sit next to the drummer and go - 'sings rhythmically'. 

Greg Koch: [00:39:54] Right, Freddie Green patrol.

Steve Lukather: [00:39:56] Freddie Green...

Greg Koch: [00:39:57] Yeah, yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:39:57] It was Freddie Green who invented  rhythm guitar.

Greg Koch: [00:39:59] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:40:00] Like, you take Freddy out of the mix and the groove goes away.

Greg Koch: [00:40:02] Right! 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:40:03] You know, it's stuff like that. Like Ray Parker Jr. Everything's Ray Parker Jr's 'Ghostbusters'. Let me tell you about Ray Parker Jr. Uh, there isn't a funkier cat on the planet. 

Greg Koch: [00:40:12] I get it.

Steve Lukather: [00:40:13] A perfect example of - when we did the 'Middle Man' record with Boz Scaggs back in the late '70s - um, I was the rock guy and Ray was the funk guy. And we had a perfect combination of what those two things are. And we, when we played together, we knew who was going to do what. And we played together great. Jay Graydon was another guy that I love to play. Michael Landau was another guy that I lov to play with. Uh, another guy that people don't talk about much anymore - he's a record producer - is Dann Huff. Dann Huff is a great guitar player.

Greg Koch: [00:40:41] Oh yeah. 

Steve Lukather: [00:40:43] Dann's - you know, and when he first came to town, he had a little bit of a nod to me, which was very sweet. Uh, but he is very much his own musician. And I didn't mention him enough in my book. Uh, they cut - they edited out so much my shit  that I wrote it three times. 

Greg Koch: [00:40:57] I understand. Yep. 

Steve Lukather: [00:40:58] But Dan, I gave Dan more love, but then they didn't  put it in there. Dan's a really great guitar player, a really sweet guy, and  he plays great, but he turned into a record producer and took over all Mutt Lange's stuff. 

Greg Koch: [00:41:10] Oh okay.

Steve Lukather: [00:41:11] He does a Mutt Lange-style to his productions. 

Greg Koch: [00:41:14] It was funny you should mention Ray Parker Jr. because years ago - I don't know, this is maybe  five, six years ago - I had to do this thing out in Hawaii. Actually, maybe it was 10 years ago - anyways, a while back. And, um, Ray Parker Jr. was there and he was playing with Patrice Rushen...

Steve Lukather: [00:41:29] Yeah.

Greg Koch: [00:41:30] And all these kind of, like, heavyweights; it was kind of an all-star thing. And everyone would take turns doing tunes, and the whole time I'm going, "Are they going to play 'Ghostbusters?'  I'm kind of saying facetiously. And he's playing tune after tune that are just killer, and then at the end, he was like, "Okay, thank you. Good night." I'm like, "There's no 'Ghostbusters?' and all of a sudden they come back, and they proceed to do' Ghostbusters', and it rocked so hard; I thought my brain was going to explode. 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:41:57] Yeah...

Greg Koch: [00:41:57] Especially that part where it's going, 'singing'. It was - 'Ghostbusters' blew my mind. Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:42:04] Well seriously, Ray Parker is one of the funkiest guitar players. 

Greg Koch: [00:42:08] It was magnificent.

Steve Lukather: [00:42:10] His eighth-note swing - like a bull's ball bag.

Greg Koch: [00:42:15] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:42:16] I'm telling you. It's unbelievable. He's an unbelievable rhythm guitar player. There isn't anybody better. 

Greg Koch: [00:42:21] Crazy.

Steve Lukather: [00:42:22] I mean, I've sat with some of the best rhythm guitar - David T. Walker, people like that. Wah Wah.

Greg Koch: [00:42:27] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:42:28] One of the funkiest cats in the world, man. I've learned a lot from sitting next to these cats. And pocket.

Greg Koch: [00:42:34] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:42:34] Pocket is everything, you know. And one of the - and one of the unsung heroes that you really should have on is Dean Parks.

Greg Koch: [00:42:43] Yeah. 

Steve Lukather: [00:42:44] He's one of those guys that everybody's read his name, but they don't know nothing about him. Dean is a legend. 

Greg Koch: [00:42:49] Alright.

Steve Lukather: [00:42:49] Dean is a quiet genius. He is a guy that can take anything. Like, you know, you hear these beautiful gutstring parts in movies. 

Greg Koch: [00:43:00] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:43:00] You know what I mean? And you go, "This,isn't just some guy reading a part. This guy is really playing this."

Greg Koch: [00:43:06] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:43:06] That's hard. That's Dean. That was Tommy Tedesco. That was guys like that - that can not only read, but interpret and feel. I mean, there are guys that can sit there and learn and learn the notes. But do the notes have any feeling to them?

Greg Koch: [00:43:21] Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:43:22] As a composer when you hand somebody a piece of music and go, "This was in my heart and soul. I want you to play it like that." And you hear 'singing rhythmically'.

Greg Koch: [00:43:32] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:43:32] And you're going, "That ain't it."

Greg Koch: [00:43:33] Yeah, exactly.

Steve Lukather: [00:43:35] And when you have somebody interpret your music - you know, like your interpretations of other people's music - 'Since I Been Loving You', that bit you do...

Greg Koch: [00:43:43] Oh the Zep thing, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:43:44] I love that. 

Greg Koch: [00:43:46] Oh, well, thank you. 

Steve Lukather: [00:43:46] It's one of my favorite Zep tunes that nobody ever does. 

Greg Koch: [00:43:49] Oh, it's...

Steve Lukather: [00:43:50] You know what I mean, and it's a classic.

Greg Koch: [00:43:51] Arguably one of the best minor blues ever written. You know what I mean? 

Steve Lukather: [00:43:54] Yeah! Yeah, there's no question about that, and you nail it. You're just fucking destroy it.

Greg Koch: [00:43:57] Oh well thank you. 

Steve Lukather: [00:43:58] And I love that. See, when I hear stuff like that - that seems simple, but it's not.

Greg Koch: [00:44:03] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:44:04] The right note makes so much of a difference. In other words, I explain to people - I go, like - you know, you look at a guy like, God bless his soul, Alan Holdsworth - you go see him at The Baked Potato...

Greg Koch: [00:44:14] Yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:44:15] ...and it takes you months to get your jaw off the floor. 

Greg Koch: [00:44:18] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:44:18] But if he was to play in an arena, which I saw him play in Europe, he lost the audience. 

Greg Koch: [00:44:25] Sure. 

Steve Lukather: [00:44:25] 'Cause he they just didn't get it. 

Greg Koch: [00:44:27] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:44:28] You know what I mean? 

Greg Koch: [00:44:29] I get it.

Steve Lukather: [00:44:30] Some music is like - it's like art. You have to sit and look at the art up close, and interpret it.

Greg Koch: [00:44:36] Right. Yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:44:36] You can't look at it from a distance...

Greg Koch: [00:44:38] Yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:44:38] ...and expect to get it. That's how I look at Allen's work. It's a perfect piece - it's a perfect fucking Rembrandt that you have to look really close at. 

Greg Koch: [00:44:49] Well, it's not something you'd put on as background music. Like, "Hey honey, let's relax, and have dinner and put on some music." You wouldn't put on...

Steve Lukather: [00:44:55] Right. Right. 

Greg Koch: [00:44:56] I love it. You know what I mean? But uh...

Steve Lukather: [00:44:59] I don't know about you, but I mean, even in an elevator - when I'm in an elevator, and I'm listening to some cheesy arrangement, I'm listening to the arrangement of the strings.

Greg Koch: [00:45:06] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:45:08] I don't want to, but it goes there.

Greg Koch: [00:45:10] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:45:10] My head goes there. 

Greg Koch: [00:45:11] I have been stopped in the grocery store, and there's been some Muzak o,n and someone's burning some - some guitar thing, I'll be like - I'm getting salad dressin, and I'm hearing someone scald my brain with the power of their savagery. It's just, you know, wherever... 'Laughing' 

Steve Lukather: [00:45:24] It was probably - it was probably some record I played on back in the day. 'Laughing'

Greg Koch: [00:45:32] 'Laughing' Yes, 

Steve Lukather: [00:45:32] No, I'm not stroking my dick like that. I would never do that.

Greg Koch: [00:45:35] 'Laughing' Well, let me ask you this, you know, in your book you've literally played like, I'm sorry, go ahead. 

Steve Lukather: [00:45:40] No, it was probably Carlton or Graydon, or somebody like that, you know? 

Greg Koch: [00:45:44] I was just going to ask - you know, in all the different stuff you've played on, and it's been like, literally the who's who of popular music - was there anybody you wish you played with, or could have played with that didn't work out that you - that was like, "Man, I wish I would have done that." 

Steve Lukather: [00:45:59] I wish I had - people like Peter Gabriel, Steve Winwood...

Greg Koch: [00:46:03] Oh yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:46:03] Dave Cullen. I was always a big prog-rock guy when I was a kid.

Greg Koch: [00:46:07] Yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:46:07] The early - yes, the early Genesis. The early - you know, stuff like that. You know, I was really into all that. Uh, and you know, when I met Steve Howe, it was a big deal. 

Greg Koch: [00:46:17] Yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:46:17] Oh, he was so funny, man. I put my hand out to shake his hand. I'm like, "Wow, Steve Howe." And he goes, "Go gently on the Bentley."

Greg Koch: [00:46:26] 'Laughing' That's pretty funny. 

Steve Lukather: [00:46:30] Is that the greatest line I've ever heard about like, "Don't squeeze my hand." 

Greg Koch: [00:46:33] Well, you know, you hear these stories about these kind of - you know, these English rock stars and how some of them can just be absolutely unapproachable. And you never know - things like...

Steve Lukather: [00:46:43] Oh! No, no, there was a sign backstage that, uh - "Don't make any noise." It was Steve Howe's room. You know what I mean? 

Greg Koch: [00:46:50] Yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:46:50] 'Cause we had a tour with Yes / Toto. 

Greg Koch: [00:46:53] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:46:53] And uh - uh, it was hilarious to me. "No clap tonight." - that'd be on the wall. 

Greg Koch: [00:47:00] 'Laughing' "There will be no clap tonight." That song's a bitch.

Steve Lukather: [00:47:08] Yeah, that's a bitch. Well, I remember being in junior high school - if you could  play that you were like, you know...

Greg Koch: [00:47:12] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:47:12] Up to the top of the class.

Greg Koch: [00:47:14] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:47:15] You know what I mean? There were guys who could do that, but then they couldn't do nothing else. 

Greg Koch: [00:47:18] Right. 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:47:19] You know what I mean? It's very funny about guys; they could do one trick.

Greg Koch: [00:47:22] Whatever it takes. 

Steve Lukather: [00:47:24] Yeah, but one trick doesn't make a career. 

Greg Koch: [00:47:26] Well, that's a fact. That is a fact. 

Steve Lukather: [00:47:28] Know what I mean? There's a lot of guys that have ridiculous chops. I mean the kind of - you just go, "Oh my God," but can't play eighth notes in time to groove at all. 

Greg Koch: [00:47:39] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:47:39] And then they wonder why they don't work, "But I can play like this,"  and you go, "Yeah, but that's like having a 20 inch cock. It's great to show to everybody, but it's not really useful in most situations." 

Greg Koch: [00:47:50] Unless you run across a Sasquatch maiden that perhaps needs...

Steve Lukather: [00:47:54] Well like I say - like, you know, there are some chicks that get off on that.  There's nothing...

Greg Koch: [00:47:59] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:47:59] When you're making out with her, you don't want to be sucking the head of your own cock. 

Greg Koch: [00:48:04] Well, that's a problem.  

Steve Lukather: [00:48:05] 'Laughing'

Greg Koch: [00:48:06] Unless you're - unless you're into that kind of thing, which...

Steve Lukather: [00:48:08] Are you editing this? 'Laughing'

Greg Koch: [00:48:10] 'Laughing' That one might not get past the sensors.  We shall see. 

Steve Lukather: [00:48:17] I don't care. First of all, I don't care. 

Greg Koch: [00:48:20] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:48:20] I mean, I have - my reputation precedes me. 'Laughing'

Greg Koch: [00:48:24] You know, I love the part where...

Steve Lukather: [00:48:27] People also - yeah, yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Greg Koch: [00:48:27] You're talking about the, uh, the Clapton thing - about playing with...

Steve Lukather: [00:48:30] Oh, I was so nervous. It was unbelievable. It's Eric Clapton. Funny, I played with other people that were as famous, if you will, but like, something about - remembering lifting up the needle so many times to learn...

Greg Koch: [00:48:46] "Crossroads".

Steve Lukather: [00:48:46] "Crossroads". Yeah the greatest - is arguably the greatest guitar solo ever played. Um, I couldn't get past it. He was pissed off at me because I didn't have callouses 'cause I had just gotten out of the shower. 

Greg Koch: [00:48:59] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:48:59] Like, "You don't play guitar. You don't have any callouses." I'm going, "No, I just got out of the shower."

Greg Koch: [00:49:04] I just got - gimme a break! 

Steve Lukather: [00:49:06] No, he said some really sweet things to me, you know? And Jimmy Page did too,

Greg Koch: [00:49:10] Yes.

Steve Lukather: [00:49:11] Jimmy Page took me aside - I - we went to this thing at uh - was it, a Guitar Center or Marshall thing...

Greg Koch: [00:49:17] Right, right.

Steve Lukather: [00:49:17] ...that they did for a while. They were doing this - he was getting a Rock Walk induction, you know?

Greg Koch: [00:49:22] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:49:22] Where you put your hands in the thing, and I was invited to come. I was thrilled to meet Jimmy Page. I'm going, "Jimmy Page.  Jesus God." 

Greg Koch: [00:49:29] Absolutely. 

Steve Lukather: [00:49:30] And he was a session guy...

Greg Koch: [00:49:31] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:49:31] ...along with John Paul Jones, and, uh - they used to play on like, you know, uh...

Greg Koch: [00:49:36] Yeah, everything back then.

Steve Lukather: [00:49:37] All those old English spots. 

Greg Koch: [00:49:39] Donovan, and...

Steve Lukather: [00:49:41] Lulu.

Greg Koch: [00:49:41] The Who. Yeah

Steve Lukather: [00:49:41] Donovan - all those records, and stuff like that. And - you know, I keep - like, Jimmy played the solo on 'Gloria'.

Greg Koch: [00:49:48] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:49:52] 'Singing'

Greg Koch: [00:49:53] Yeah, yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:49:54] 'You Really Got Me' by The Kinks - that was Jimmy. 

Greg Koch: [00:49:57] Yeah. 

Steve Lukather: [00:49:58] And stuff like that. And I'm walking in the door with Eddie Van Halen, who's been a dear friend of mine since the '70s. I'm not name-dropping here, I'll have to send you five bucks every time I usually name drop...

Greg Koch: [00:50:09] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:50:10] I'm there, and Jimmy Page points, and I'm thinking he's pointing at fucking Eddie Van Halen, because he wouldn't point at Eddie Van Halen? Right?

Greg Koch: [00:50:16] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:50:17] I'm just Eddie's pal. You know? And this was probably 1992 because right afterwards I produced the record - uh, the, the, - I guess the person of the evening was Nigel Tufnel.

Greg Koch: [00:50:29] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:50:30] Chris Guest, you know? And I had seen the movie 10 times. I loved it. Right?

Greg Koch: [00:50:34] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:50:35] And so in the middle of it all, I walk up to Chris Guest and I - oh, Jimmy Page sees me with Eddie, and he points. And he - I think he's pointing at Eddie. He's pointing at me. I go, "Ed?" Like this, like, "Ed? And he goes, "No, you." I'm like, "Okay." I come up to him. I go, "Well hi, Jimmy. Steve Lukather. It's a great honor to meet you." And he goes, "I want to talk to you about  something,come here."  I'm like, "You want to talk to me about something?"

Greg Koch: [00:51:00] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:51:01] "Okay." And he goes, "I read an article about you once, where you said, like - you think you would have been taken more seriously if you weren't a session guitar player. Like you'd have been taken more seriously as a guitar player if you weren't a session guy?" And he goes, "That's not true. I was a session guy, and those guys out there..." and he's pointing to every guitar player that's ever been in LA - who's out in the fucking main room at the Guitar Center in LA - he goes, "They don't understand what it takes to do that job. It's not just reading the notes. It's interpreting..." And he goes into this whole thing about it, and I'm like - I got a tear coming out of my eye. I go, "Can I tell people you said this to me?" He goes, "Yeah."

Greg Koch: [00:51:33] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:51:34] 'Unintelligible' ...and he said that to me. I mean, it really touched me deeply. 

Greg Koch: [00:51:38] That's awesome.

Steve Lukather: [00:51:39] Because it doesn't matter. There's a million guys - you know, like I said - that just play rings around me, that are just jaw-dropping. I just go, "Wow." Jimmy Herring, you know?John McGlaughlin.

Greg Koch: [00:51:51] Yeah.

Steve Lukather: [00:51:51] Al Di Meola. You go down the list. It's just - you know, cats that are ridiculous. Then just the rock guys, you know, who are just - they're jaw-droppingly incredible. You know what I mean? I mean, there's so many great guitar players. How do you keep up in that? 

Greg Koch: [00:52:06] You just gotta be yourself. I reckon.

Steve Lukather: [00:52:08] Yeah, well that's why people dig you, because you kind of take all that little country-ish thing, but you rock it, and you jazz it, and you do all the things that...

Greg Koch: [00:52:16] As Junior Brown says, "I just do what comes easy to fool." 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:52:22] 'Laughing' Where do you come up with this stuff? You know what I mean? You totally crack me up for this. It's just amazing. 

Greg Koch: [00:52:28] You know, I'm just amazed that when Jimmy Page talked to you, and he said, you know, "We're we have this in common, 'cause we're - we're session guys," I'm wondering - at what point did you not think to yourself, "I need a dragon suit"? You know what I mean? When did that... 'laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:52:44] You know, I thought like - this is like - "No one's going to believe me when I tell them this." You know what I mean? That's what I thought. I mean, I thought...

Greg Koch: [00:52:50] I don't know about you, but I'm still a total Zeppelin geek. I listened to...

Steve Lukather: [00:52:53] Me too! Me too. 

Greg Koch: [00:52:55] I listened to all these bootlegs now that are showing up, and I have my different favorite bootlegs from over the years, and what he's...

Steve Lukather: [00:53:01] Yeah, I mean sometimes - sometimes he was a little too buzzed; you could tell, but...

Greg Koch: [00:53:05] But it still was glorious. I mean, that's one of the things - like you don't care. 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:53:09] I always think a guy like you does care. Like he would go, "Oh well, that's out of tune. That's like..." You know, because you're such a perfectionist guitar player. 

Greg Koch: [00:53:17] Oh, I love the filth. I got to have the filth. Although there are certain eras where like, you know, Jimmy in like 1970 was particularly on, and he would just...

Steve Lukather: [00:53:28] Yeah right? No, that was right when - you know, when the buzz still worked.

Greg Koch: [00:53:33] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:53:35] 'Laughing' It's when the buzz doesn't work! 

Greg Koch: [00:53:39] I think that - that's before...

Steve Lukather: [00:53:39] I know this from firsthand experience. I used to be able to have a couple drinks and go, "Yeah, that's great." You know, just relaxed me a little bit, but then all of a sudden I realized I drank half a bottle on stage...

Greg Koch: [00:53:46] Right!

Steve Lukather: [00:53:47] ...and I am sucking, and I didn't realize it 'cause I feel great. You know? But I didn't sound great. And thanks to the miracle of YouTube, I get to watch the shit get beaten out of me on a daily basis. 

Greg Koch: [00:54:00] Ah...

Steve Lukather: [00:54:00] I don't -  don't really read it anymore because, you know, I go, "What's the point? I had a bad night. Okay? So I'm sorry about that." You know what I mean? 

Greg Koch: [00:54:07] Oh, you know what though...

Steve Lukather: [00:54:08] I haven't had a drink in 10 and a half years. Give me a break. You know?

Greg Koch: [00:54:11] Good for you. 

Steve Lukather: [00:54:11] You know what I mean? So, you know, yeah, I fucked up. I've been doing this since I was single digit.

Greg Koch: [00:54:16] Yeah. I think the, uh, the vast quantity of brilliant shit you've done maskes any of this stuff that these trolls might feed upon so they can go take and eat. 

Steve Lukather: [00:54:26] I do apologize - I mean, I do apologize for, you know, letting myself get out of control like that. It was really sad. 

Greg Koch: [00:54:31] Well...

Steve Lukather: [00:54:32] My mom died from alcoholism. It was - it's not a pretty thing. 

Greg Koch: [00:54:35] No.

Steve Lukather: [00:54:36] And I'm glad I caught it. And I'm sorry that I let it go. I mean, you know, it's almost like every night is Saturday night to everybody when you're on the road.

Greg Koch: [00:54:44] Exactly. 

Steve Lukather: [00:54:44] So if you don't want to go out and hang with them, then they're insulted. And then next thing you know you've got a buzz on, and then the next thing you know, you're going to buzz on every night. 

Greg Koch: [00:54:51] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:54:51] And the next thing you know, it's not good. 

Greg Koch: [00:54:53] You're preaching to the choir. 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:54:57] Yeah well I am not talking about having a couple of beers. I'm talking about legless.

Greg Koch: [00:55:01] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:55:02] You know? And there's a big difference. 'Laughing'

Greg Koch: [00:55:04] No, I understand. 

Steve Lukather: [00:55:05] Having a few drinks is different than having like, "Somebody carrying him the fuck out of here." 

Greg Koch: [00:55:09] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:55:10] You know, I mean I - and I didn't mean to be, I thought it was funny. I mean, I - at least I was a happy drunk. 'Laughing' I mean, I wasn't mean, you know? I was just stupid, and I should never go near playing guitar like that. That's just not cool. You know, it's just not - it's not - I mean, I I've been given this great opportunity, and I started to fuck it up, and I'm deeply ashamed of that.

And yeah, it was a long time ago, but I still think about it, and I go, "Wow, man. You know, I get - my dream comes true, and I fuck it up?" I mean, that's really terrible, you know, and I'm ashamed of that, you know man? But listen, I've had time to, you know, wake myself back up, and save myself before it got too ugly, you know?

Greg Koch: [00:55:47] Oh, exactly, exactly.

Steve Lukather: [00:55:48] Our stories are not dissimilar - so funny that all the guys I used to drink with - you know, Eddie, Neil, Zach, blah, blah, blah - the list goes on, you know what I mean? 

Greg Koch: [00:55:59] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:55:59] Slash - all stoped at the  same time.

Greg Koch: [00:56:02] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:56:02] Without ever talking about it. And not from typical - go to rehab / AA.

Greg Koch: [00:56:08] Right.

Steve Lukather: [00:56:08] Just, "I'm done with this. This is just - I feel like hell. I'm not playing good. I don't like myself. I look like shit. I feel like shit." When you finally hit that point, that's when you're going to stop. 

Greg Koch: [00:56:20] Right? 

Steve Lukather: [00:56:20] Not because somebody tells you to, you know?

Greg Koch: [00:56:22] Oh, well exactly. Can't be told.

Steve Lukather: [00:56:25] We - you know, we both have people in our families that have, you know - struggled. You know, my daughter?  You know, she had a little bit of a struggle and she got out of it, and, uh, you know, my mom, you know, and my son? No problem. He can do it or not, or have a beer and be fine. My daughter - one beer is toast, you know? 

Greg Koch: [00:56:43] Yeah, I hear you. 

Steve Lukather: [00:56:43] Same family, same divorce, same whatever. You know what I mean? You know, you can only blame yourself so much. 

Greg Koch: [00:56:50] Right. 

Steve Lukather: [00:56:51] But I'm not going to get into that. This is a guitar thing, you know? But that's...

Greg Koch: [00:56:54] No, I understand. I haven't, uh...

Steve Lukather: [00:56:56] It's all part of the guitar / music business thing, you know, the...

Greg Koch: [00:56:58] I haven't had a drink in 20 - 24 years, it's been.

Steve Lukather: [00:57:04] I'm trying to imagine you shit-faced. That would be hilarious. 

Greg Koch: [00:57:07] Well, I apparently I was fun. 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [00:57:12] They tell me I had a good time too. 'Laughing'

Greg Koch: [00:57:14] Yeah, exactly. Apparently there - but there are definitely stretches that I do not remember. 

Steve Lukather: [00:57:18] Yeah, I, yeah, yeah - there's some - I did some really stupid shit. I said some really fucked up things that I'm not - you know?

Greg Koch: [00:57:25] But we're alive! Now when people say, "Do you drink?" I say, "No, it break makes me break out in handcuffs." That's the ultimate diffuser. When you say that, people are like...

Steve Lukather: [00:57:37] 'Laughing' I'm going  o use that. I'm going to use that.

Greg Koch: [00:57:40] 'Laughing' That diffuses it quickly. 

Steve Lukather: [00:57:41] It does. "Yeah, it makes me break out in handcuffs." That's - 'laughing'. 

Greg, I love you. You're the best, I'm going to let you off...

Greg Koch: [00:57:49] Well, thank you so much for taking time for us. It was great just chatting with you, and I appreciate you doing this as of course, I know the Wildwood guys were tickled pink that we were doing this, so...

Steve Lukather: [00:57:57] I'm honored, and tell them a thank-you for, you know selling my - all the Music Man guitars.

Greg Koch: [00:58:03] Oh, absolutely.

Steve Lukather: [00:58:03] They've done a great job for me. I love them to death.  Thank you Wildwood, and all the gang there. And thank you because I think you're one of my favorite guitar players, and I think you're such a badass, and a great guy. 

Greg Koch: [00:58:14] Well, likewise, my friend. It's just such a - it's such a trip to -  that we're pals! If I had - were somebody to say, "You know, after a few years of, uh, the great struggle as a musician, you're actually going to be buddies with people like Steve Lukather."  I'd be like, "What? So it's an incredible honor that we're, uh...

Steve Lukather: [00:58:30] Oh, come  on, man. 

Greg Koch: [00:58:31] ...we're hanging out. 

Steve Lukather: [00:58:32] You dust the floor with me, my brother. 

Greg Koch: [00:58:35] Agh!

Steve Lukather: [00:58:35] I'm a fan - I'm your biggest fan. I talk about you all the time. 

Greg Koch: [00:58:39] Ah, well, listen, that is - that blows  my brain.

Steve Lukather: [00:58:42] Hey, what did I do? With Ringo, I go, "You gotta hear this guy play." 

Greg Koch: [00:58:45] That was surreal. I tell people that story and I'm like - it was, it was just so bizarre. What a nice guy Ringo is. He was totally - you know, the most embarrassing part of that night though, is when I'm sitting there talking with Ringo, and with Bissonnet, and I've known Bissonnette for a while, and for some reason - he was at - Bissonnet was asking about my son, Dylan, the drummer, and I was telling a story about, uh, how we happen to be in the same hotel in Italy as Steve Gadd, and I was kind of telling a fanboys story about Steve Gadd, and I was like, "I'm telling a fanboys story about Steve Gadd to Ringo Starr and Greg Bissonette!" But they totally were like, "Yeah!" And then they told their stories about Steve, and it was just - the whole thing was surreal.

Steve Lukather: [00:59:25] Oh yeah. I have a Ringo story about Gadd. It's hilarious. 

Greg Koch: [00:59:28] Yeah. Yeah. He told that one, and it was just like, "I'm being told a Steve Gadd story by Ringo Starr, and my brain is about to explode." But he was just as cool as the day as long. So...

Steve Lukather: [00:59:36] But you know what he did. I - you know, I'm doing a documentary right now. 

Greg Koch: [00:59:39] No!

Steve Lukather: [00:59:40] Sony came to me, and wanted me to do a documentary about, you know, the session work and all the other stuff that I've done. And the guy who did it came to me - who did Bruce Springsteen's last one - and he thought - he saw - he read the book, and he saw some interviews. He goes, his guy would be interesting because nobody really - he's done a lot, but nobody really knows who he is," You know, in terms of -  it's great, I have a perfect amount of family. I walked down the street, nobody really knows who I am. Got three people out of a hundred, you know, might go like, "Hey, are you that guy?" And I'm like - it's never a problem. But guys that are really famous have a real tough time. 

Greg Koch: [01:00:15] Right.

Steve Lukather: [01:00:15] And he thought, "Well, you have an interesting story 'cause you play on so many famous things, but you're not that famous person." And so they came to me with this idea. And I said, "Well, I don't know. I don't want to do one where everybody's going like, 'Oh yeah, Steve Lukather's great.'" I mean, how boring is that? I mean, it's like...

Greg Koch: [01:00:33] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [01:00:34] You know? Um, I said, "Well, if everybody wants to do something, and say something funny, or say something soulful, that would be great." Well then it would be funny, and then I could dig it, and they - and Ringo said he would do it, and Slash did it,  I'm going to get a whole bunch of people that do it, and tell funny stories about when they first met me, or some funny that I did. And Ringo did the most soulful thing. He goes, "Steve Lukather's my very last best friend.

Greg Koch: [01:01:01] 'Laughing'

Steve Lukather: [01:01:02] And that fucked me up. I'm like going, "Jesus Christ, Ringo Starr." The reason why I play guitar is the Beatles.

Greg Koch: [01:01:08] Right.

Steve Lukather: [01:01:09] Here I am a 62, and he goes, "Steve Lukather is one of my very best friends." 

Greg Koch: [01:01:13] Alright, Steve, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. You rule!

Steve Lukather: [01:01:17] 'Laughing'

Greg Koch: [01:01:17] It's been an honor and a pleasure. One of these days, we're gonna have to do some planning together, and just hang out and cause some troubl, or just have another delicious feast once this COVID stuff has gone away. 

Steve Lukather: [01:01:28] Boy, wouldn't that be great. Listen, it's a great honor to talk to you. You're one of my favorite guitar players, and genius, and thank you for asking me. Wildwood, you guys have been the best to me. Thank you so very, very much for having me - anytime, anywhere, and I'll definitely be at your next gig, Greg - soon as you're around my town.

Greg Koch: [01:01:46] Alright well we'll - likewise. 

Steve Lukather: [01:01:47] You won't recognize me...

Greg Koch: [01:01:48] When you come behind the cheddar curtain, if I'm in towne shall feast. 

Steve Lukather: [01:01:53] We will. Absolutely. I'll be wearing the hazmat suit. 

Greg Koch: [01:01:56] 'Laughing' All right, my friend, thanks so much, you're the best. 

Steve Lukather: [01:01:58] Take care brother. God bless you, man. Take care. 

Greg Koch: [01:02:00] Likewise. Take it easy.  Bye bye.

Steve Lukather: [01:02:01] Bye