Chewing the Gristle with Greg Koch
Welcome to Season 5! Listen in on Greg Koch's conversations with his guitar-hero friends. Every episode Greg unleashes his fiendish humor and unique perspective as "one of the most famous unknown guitar players in the world", asking his often-famous musical friends the questions that we all want to know the answers to! Each episode is brought to you by Fishman and Wildwood Guitars
Chewing the Gristle with Greg Koch
Dave Hill - Feral Men with Guitars: Why Dave Will Never Get a "Real Job"
Dave Hill seamlessly blends virtuosic guitar playing with razor-sharp comedy, creating an entirely unique performance experience that defies categorization. In this captivating conversation with Greg Koch, Dave reveals the unexpected path that led him from his Cleveland roots as a rock musician to becoming a multifaceted comedian, author, and performer in New York City.
The heart of Dave's artistic evolution came when he discovered audiences found genuine humor in his guitar prowess. "When I realized that people were laughing at guitar solos—not in a mocking way—I started doing things like tapping," Dave explains. This revelation transformed his approach, allowing him to stretch 10 minutes of material into 20 while "getting laughs in different ways" and developing his signature style of berating his backing musicians between impressive solos.
What makes Dave's performances particularly fascinating is his "Chuck Berry style" approach to working with local musicians. Often meeting his backing band just hours (or sometimes minutes) before showtime, he transforms this unpredictability into comedic gold. Whether performing with legendary musicians like Benmont Tench from Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers or with drummers who "own drums at best," Dave embraces the chaos as part of his art form.
The conversation drifts through numerous fascinating detours, from their shared Catholic upbringings to the unpredictable nature of social media virality. Dave shares stories about opening for Tenacious D in arenas, writing four books, and crafting the theme song for Last Week Tonight with John Oliver with his band Valley Lodge. Through it all, his creative philosophy remains refreshingly simple: "You really can only entertain yourself... anytime you're thinking 'what do people want,' that's not part of the equation."
Follow Dave on social media for his hilarious "fake commercials" and check out his band Valley Lodge for a taste of his musical side. As Dave puts it: "I'm feral, this is what I do... now I just have to ride it out until I die, because that's the only option really."
Ladies and gentlemen, can you believe it? It's already time for season six of Chewing the Gristle with yours truly, greg Cox. So many delightful conversations to look forward to. We'll talk about music. Yes, sure, but you know what else we're going to talk about. Anything that comes to mind, so stay tuned. We'll talk about music. Yeah, sure, but you know what else we're gonna talk about. Anything that comes to mind, so stay tuned. We got some good ones for you.
Speaker 1:Chewin' the Gristle, season six. This week on Chewin' the Gristle we've got a guy I'm a big fan of, dave Hill, comedian and musician extraordinaire. If you follow him on his social media stuff he's fantastic and his live shows, where he combines music with humor, let's just say he's a man after my own heart. Ladies and gentlemen, this week on Chewing the Gristle, dave Hill. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, once again we gather around the gristle fire for a convivial conversation for Chewing the Gristle. Today we have a star of stage and screen of the page of the inner Google, the mighty Dave Hill. You might know him as Dave from before. I just call him kick-ass. What's going on, dave? What's happening?
Speaker 2:Oh, thanks for having me, greg. I'm here in my apartment, where the temperature fluctuates greatly here in New York City, which is why I have a scarf on, and now I've discarded it.
Speaker 1:I thought it looked pretty kick-ass, keeping with the theme.
Speaker 2:It does. I'll just kind of drape it. I like it. I like what you've done, thank you.
Speaker 1:Now for the viewers at home. We don't actually show the video from this, but I think they can sense a little extra oomph, if you will, by having that glorious rain mint around your neck.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah at 1, now my.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you heard the dog drinking water in the background I can actually see the reflection on one of the pictures in the back. There I think I could see a creature lurking oh yeah, she's lurking around a powerful beast.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, she's a big. She's like a 65 pound hellhound you know, I have Licking her butthole right now.
Speaker 1:actually, that's all right, a dog's got to do what a dog's got to do. Yeah, I was having a delicious little coffee and chat fest with my buddy Willie Porter, who's a great guitar player and singer, fella, and I said I'm about to talk to Dave Hill, I had to show him some of your videos and, of course, anytime that you engage in a spirited I'm going to call it a duet with John Mayer, it just fills me with such glee.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you. Yeah, me too, and I'm bummed like he was posting videos for a while that you could duet with on TikTok and then he just stopped. What a tease. Yeah, I'm hoping he gets back to it, maybe whenever he releases another record or something.
Speaker 1:I'm hoping he does too, just so I can see your interpretation of one of his glorious sonic selections.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's really I just I run it through and what comes out is what's missing from the original recording, I believe well, oh, I'm spot on absolutely you know. Thank you for noticing.
Speaker 1:Oh, my god, I love mayor camp oh, no more word from the mayor camp, interestingly enough no, it's and it's it.
Speaker 2:The silence is deafening because we definitely have. You know, they're not even. We have like mutual friends and stuff. So you would think, but no, you know what it's people.
Speaker 1:People are a strange breed. I don't judge Dave, but I do observe and comment accordingly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and judge privately. That's what I do Privately.
Speaker 1:That's what I do. So let's talk a little bit about the genesis of the Dave Hill experience, starting in beautiful Cleveland.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And you're quite the accomplished guitar player, songwriter, musician.
Speaker 2:Too kind.
Speaker 1:But also you put this musicianship together with your comedy to to make for it's just fantastic. It just makes um, I was watching, watching one of the things last night on the youtube, uh, a show that you did, uh, one of your comedy specials on the old youtube, and I was just howling. It was glorious, oh, thank you. I mean the timing and and the the, everything about it was like this is right up my alley. You know, when you hit something you're like this guy's a kindred spirit. Uh, if you'll allow me for saying so, and, uh, I'm honored.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's how I felt the first time I I started watching your videos, which I I was trying to think of what was like the one that sucked me in. But I can't pinpoint what it was, whether it was, you know, a Wildwood video or something else. But here we are.
Speaker 1:Here we are. So you started in Cleveland, and what was your kind of trajectory? Was humor always part of the main thrust of what you were going to do? Or you're like, no, I'm a musician. Or were you always like, hey, I do all of these things.
Speaker 2:let's see what happens no, I, I never planned to go into comedy, and there are some people out there would argue that I still haven't those people are fools.
Speaker 2:But no, I just, you know, like most reasonable people, young, I wanted to play in a band, you know, since I was like eight years old or something and uh, so that was you know that, and I was into like visual art and uh, so I formed a band with, like my best friends in college and and we got signed to Priority Records, which at the time, and maybe still, I'm not sure was primarily a hip-hop label. Ah, and they kind of did this rock experiment where they signed a few bands. We were called Sons of Elvis, which I love. That it's a great slash, horrible name, but it's the kind of name you give yourselves when you're in the basement and you're teenagers and you don't think you'll ever leave the basement, and we just stuck with it.
Speaker 2:But so, and we were, and we had this key element, I think, which I have not had since and I would urge anyone in any field is we had such confidence, like from our very first we thought we were amazing and I think that's a really key thing and we got better. So when we like a lot of people, you know you're in your early 20s and you get a record deal and we thought we'll take over the world. Now we'll be. We'll be led zeppelin the next led zeppelin or whatever, which you know has been my favorite band since I was seven yes and uh, and then we got dropped after our first record, as happens mostly, and then, just very quickly, I'll go From there.
Speaker 2:I started painting houses. Then I started writing, just sort of accidentally. My sister was a writer and encouraged me. And then I started writing for television, just kind of drifting, because friends were working in television and they're like hey, do you want to submit some jokes to this thing? And I did that. And then I ended up writing on a TV show in New York and I wound up writing for another show and then I was just on the show because I was such an idiot in the office. They're like fine, just be on the show. It was this show called Court TV, which is a daily show kind of show. Yeah, it was on on true tv, I think. And um, no, it was called smoking gun tv and it was on court tv, which is now true tv.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry you could so much of this you can edit out, but anyway so, and from that of my friend, tony carnevale was like oh, I run the show in the back of a bar. Do you want a comedy show? And he asked me if I wanted to do it, having no plans to ever do comedy on stage Because growing up, like, I didn't understand that Music. I understood like, oh, people form bands or whatever and they go play. But comedy I always thought was, oh, this is like me and my friends goofing around and David Letterman was just like the funniest guy from high school, so his buddy from high school must be in charge of NBC. And that's how he got this show. That's how I thought it worked. I didn't think it was like, oh no, he worked really hard to get to this point. I thought it was just like, hey, dave, we got to fill the 11 30 time slot and, um, so I started doing that, yeah, and, like you know, in the back of bars.
Speaker 2:And then I always, just because of my reverence, uh, for the majesty of rock yes, I kept it totally separate and you know, around the time started doing comedy, which was 20 years ago I formed a band called Valley Lodge, which I still have, and I formed it with my buddy, john Kimbrough, who's one of my all-time favorite musicians and guitar heroes. He had this band Walt Mink and he's just amazing. And so we formed this band Walt Mink and he's just amazing. And so we formed this band and we made a record and then I kept it very separate. And then there started to be shows where there would be a house band Right, my friend Tom Papa's show Come to Papa. My friend Wesley Stace's show, cabinet of Wonders. My friend Greg Barris' show Heart of Darkness. And so I just said, well, I'm just going to bring my guitar along once they start asking me to do the shows. And then I just started berating the band and ripping solos in between jokes and then I realized, oh there's, like this whole.
Speaker 2:I think part of the reason I resisted mixing music is because, you know, aside from like Tenacious D, who I love and have since toured with a couple times, right, you know, flight of the Conchords, who are also amazing, like a lot of the stuff I was seeing, like in the comedy clubs where people were doing musical comedy, was just kind of like acoustic guitar strumming and you know open g rhyming things with poop and things exactly, I was like what I'm like I don't want to do that.
Speaker 2:So then when I realized that people were laughing at guitar solos not in a mocking way, but I realized because I think I thought like well, it's not funny to be good, but once you start doing things like tapping and stuff which, to the lay person, people think that's like the hardest, they think it's like even though between you and me and anyone listening it's one of the easiest things to do. But you do it and then people start laughing at that. So it started to be this fun thing where, first of all, 10 minutes of material is now 20 minutes when you're playing guitar solos and yelling at the drummer Right. So I was like okay, stretching out the act and also getting laughs in different ways, and honestly, there's a laziness factor not performance-wise, but just in terms of leaving the house that I only have to leave.
Speaker 1:I still have my band, valley Lodge, which, which we should say you guys came up with the theme song to the John Oliver program.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, Last week tonight that's one of our songs, which was an amazingly lucky thing. I know John and I know the showrunner, Liz Stanton. She just called one day and said hey, we just decided to try your song as an opening. Now, like 12 years later, they're still using it. Excellent, Excellent.
Speaker 1:So, and knock on wood, the show will be on the next 30 years, but anyway so we're going to have some good material coming up, but we won't get into that For better or for worse, yeah so, but anyway.
Speaker 2:So I just found it was. You know, I was kind of like having more fun, obviously, playing guitar and and telling jokes at the same time, and I sort of it sort of evolved into I still do just like regular, I'll go do a show and I'll just talk for 15, 20 minutes, but it's more fun to play the guitar and uh, and it's guitar and it also gives me the excuse or justifies the stupid amount of guitars I have in my mind.
Speaker 1:You don't need to justify it. It's good, clean, fun.
Speaker 2:I know you're right. I think it's just Catholic guilt. Why would you have more than one guitar? Catholic guilt, yeah. Why would you have more than one guitar?
Speaker 1:You know, when you're putting together a set of comedy versus, of course, a band thing, what are some similarities or certainly there's differences. But I think you know, when people see comedians they think that a lot of it is is excuse me, I can't use my tongue right now Extemporized, yeah, but but there's. There's like riffs, right, you've got your riffs and you go and you, you put those all together and they change from night to night and I would imagine, judging from comedian, there's guys that are absolutely do the same thing after they've sussed out their show and then they tour behind that to get the timing just right. But how much are like interchangeable bits versus what's extemporized, versus you know, and and what's the the time that you keep stuff in a set, versus? Oh, I'm going back to this particular town. I just was there and I did x, y and Z. You know what I mean. How does it work in the comedian realm versus musician realm?
Speaker 2:It's kind of the opposite, in that musicians, you know everyone wants you to play. You know, if you're touring, it's like, oh, cool, they're playing all the hits, they're playing the first two albums oh, this is amazing whereas comedy, it's like. You know, ideally you want to be doing new stuff all the time, right, um, but, and I don't know, I mean, I, I berate myself for literally everything but, um, again getting back to our shared catholicism, that's yeah, but I, you know, I'm kind of always like. I'm like, oh, I feel like it takes, know, I'm kind of always like. I'm like, oh, I feel like it takes me so long to come up with like new material and like stuff that I am excited about. But I think the general rule would be like once you've released something on an album or in a special that maybe it's, you're done with it, but, um, but is?
Speaker 1:there still that expectation of, like a greatest hit of your comedy realm would be included in a show, and are people disappointed when it's not, or it's just not the same thing?
Speaker 2:I mean, there's a couple ways I think about it. Like I remember when andrew dice clay you know his that big whatever first album came out, which you know I wasn't really a fan of, and I I say that not to talk smack about him at all Like I respect him or whatever, but what? Like the hickory dickory, the dirty Brian, that wasn't my, that just wasn't like kind of not cause it was dirty or just it wasn't. I wasn't necessarily into it, but but if you listen to that record, like the whole arena is screaming along with him, like they know the jokes already, Right, and so like, and I think that was part of the fun of it, Um, but that's a rare thing. Uh, I don't know if I can name drop.
Speaker 2:Um, my friend, tom papa, who's dear friend and and and directs, is directing my off-broadway show. I we were talking about like oh, what's gonna go in the show and I was like. I was like can I sneak in like old bits that are like I feel would be like really fit well with the show? And he was, and he to name drop, for I guess name dropping once removed. He's friends with Jerry Seinfeld and he's like I had the same conversation with him and he's like Jerry was like how famous do you think you are?
Speaker 2:Like there's billions of people like, relatively speaking, you know on earth. Like, and I'm way smaller than tom, like it's like it's like people haven't heard my jokes and, relatively speaking, no one has any idea who I am. So he's like yeah, if you want to put in some, right, but so anyway, uh, but yeah, the you know, the you know. In the UK, you know people do like the Edinburgh Fringe Fest every summer and are cranking out a new hour every year and I just I don't. There's some people in the States that are that prolific, but I don't think it's as common to be just cranking out new material. Um, also like I, I don't know, I think any of my ideas, whether they be comedy or musical or writing or whatever I kind of look at it as like excretions, like a slug would leave behind.
Speaker 1:It's just kind of what comes out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't really. I think the only thing that I do that is like I can sit down and be like, okay, I have to do this right now. It's like when I'm writing a book because there's other people who are like we gave you the money, where's the book? So I kind of have to go, you know, I have to sit down and be like I have to turn this in Again, catholicism again. I'm like I'm going to be in trouble. I'm going to be in trouble if I don't send this. I understand. So there's some pressure is a good thing.
Speaker 1:But as far as those bits like I mean, how much wiggle room do you do from night to night? If you have your show set, are there nights where you're like, oh, I didn't even do X, y and Z, whereas the next night you might exclude another bit, or is it? And how much are those things different from night to night?
Speaker 2:They're different. You know, it's kind of modular, like I'd be like I'm going to do this, this and this. But, like you know, there's a certain amount of I don't really do crowd work in terms of like, hey, oh, what do you do for a living? I don't really do that. But, um, which is, by the way, the easiest thing in the world to do, it's like it's the right hand tapping of comedy, but uh, um, so don't be impressed by those uh, tik, tok clips, right, Um, but you know, there there are elements of talking to the crowd, so that, where, you know, I ended up having these different elements that I can kind of come back to so it changes. I mean, like it's, it's really fun when you finish a show that you feel good about and you can tell the audience enjoyed and you go like, oh, wow, I only did half of my material. That's a good night, right, right, right, right, like.
Speaker 2:When you're kind of barreling through it, you're like that's not really a good night, you know, when you're, just go to the next one, you know, I mean it's like same. You know you probably, you know, playing in a band I have more fun when I'm like, oh, I was talking. I mean, that's kind of why one of the reasons I started to enjoy comedy is playing in bands. I realized, oh, I like the talking part just as much as when we play the songs Exactly. But that's a fun show where you get to talk and you're like, oh, we got to cut a couple songs from the set because I was blabbing too much. You know, that's a good night? I think yeah For me, unless people are like why didn't you play which wouldn't happen to me but you know would happen to you and to people with songs that people know and want to hear.
Speaker 1:So do you travel with the same band or do you hire bands in different regions?
Speaker 2:I hire them. It's pretty much Chuck Berry style and the stuff that I do is I mean, I dream of getting to a point where I can kind of change what I'm doing to where, like, I have a band that knows complex arrangements but it's just not doable to tour that way, so I intentionally sort of write the music pieces to where people I mean the kind of the gag and the gag, and usually the reality is I've just met this band at 4.30, 6 o'clock, whatever. I mean there's been times when, for whatever reason, the drummer has shown up and couldn't be there for soundcheck and I met him when I called the band to the stage. Right, I did a show once where I met the drummer who was supposed to be the drummer before the show.
Speaker 2:And I just kind of go over like this is going to be this kind of bluesy R&B groove and I tell the bass player the notes.
Speaker 2:It's in D, minor, d, pentatonic or whatever, and that's about the only direction I'll give because I want it to be if the musicians are decent, that's part of the fun.
Speaker 2:And also I don't want it to be perfect because I want to be able to yell at them and I find it. I find like the better the musicians, the more the funnier it is to berate them, right? So sometimes and you know, sometimes I have, you know, like when I toured with Tenacious D, I had John and Scott you know, the Tenacious D rhythm section and they're, you know, they're total badasses and they have a great sense of humor too section and they're, you know, they're total badasses and they have a great sense of humor too, so they can play. You know, on the first tour I did with them, I called an audible in front of like 10 000 people. I was just like I want to do this other thing and they're so good that we jumped in and played it confidently in front of, with having never even discussed it more than, like you know, turning them like yelling the chords let's go, but um, and it goes the other way too, like in tertiary markets where ringers aren't available.
Speaker 2:no, um ringers are available, there's badasses everywhere, generally speaking. But I have run into where, um, I'll, I'll go over, I'll be like hey, this is really easy, just d-a-g. And the bass player is like well, show me. And I was like okay. And then you realize, oh, they don't know the notes. Like they are looking at my hands because they play it and they're like no, I'm like no, that's d-e, uh what the hell's your problem.
Speaker 1:No, I look, it's my own fault, because like they play it and they're like no, I'm like no, that's D E. A is on the other side. What the hell's your problem?
Speaker 2:No, I look it's my own fault, cause, like a lot of times, if I don't know people or friends can't wrangle people. I'll just do an Instagram post and I'll be like hey, who wants to come play? And and that's how it goes. So, and it, you, and it usually works out pretty well and, no matter what, it's fun, and I would never. If someone's not a great player, I don't think it makes the show worse, it's still fun. It's just more fun when people are total beasts, and I am more entertained knowing who I'm yelling at.
Speaker 2:Like I did a show I don't know if you know the Milk Carton Kids. They're an amazing folk duo, but we were at the Newport Folk Festival and they did this show and they had me on as a guest and Ben Montench from Petty and the Heartbreakers, of course, an amazingly nice guy and a total musical hero. I met him before the show, and so the Milk Carton Kids guys, joey and Kenneth, were like, yeah, he's going to be part of your backing band, we'll do it and he'll do it, but it was everyone's running around. I didn't really tell him anything, so I neglected to mention it. Like, oh, by the way, I'm going to be verbally abusive to you. And so we're out there and I'm yelling at him like goddammit Ben. And so we're out there and I'm yelling at him like God damn it, ben. And he got it right away. What was happening? But inside I'm like I can't believe. I'm yelling at one of my lifelong musical heroes in front of all these people.
Speaker 2:And there was one time in this one city I don't want to give too much details because if anyone heard and figured out who I'm talking about I feel bad. But I had put something on the internet like hey, can someone come play drums at this club I'm playing at? And this young woman showed up with her drums and I just kind of went over it verbally, which is sometimes all I do, like there's no rehearsal, it's the show, it happens in the show. And so I said we're going to do this, you'll just kind of jump in after a couple measures. And then I realized the show, we're doing it in the show.
Speaker 2:And I realized oh, she owns drums at best, like she cannot, literally can't, play a beat, and like, kind of, she played about as well as someone who's just trying to play a beat. Right, and I was at first, I was just like frustrated. Like I didn't yell at her or anything, but I was kind of internally frustrated. But then after like 30 seconds I was like I love this woman that saw my post and thought I have drums, I'll go down there. So so there, anyway, all by way of saying I I generally have a really good time, no matter what happens yeah right.
Speaker 2:Well, the key to life you got to be able to pivot at all times the only thing I'll say is I, I truly love reggae and I'm slowly becoming a an aficionado. But uh, there's been the one thing like given the the things I'm doing in my show when it there's been a few times when a drummer gets like too clever and you can hear them getting clever, which I don't want. I just want kind of I want it to be like you're hired and you're playing the most rudimentary thing because you don't know what's going on. That's kind of the gag and you can hear them getting clever. And the next thing you know they're kind of playing this reggae shuffle and that I have to go off mic and be like stop that immediately Because it's too clever, way too clever. Because it's too clever, way too clever. Right, I don't want it to seem like anyone's got too good of a handle on it. Nothing against reggae I love reggae.
Speaker 1:I know I hear what you're saying. It definitely messes with the gag, yeah.
Speaker 2:Reggae beats are an aggressive thing for a drummer to pull out, Unless you're you know Studio One in Jamaica, drummer Right.
Speaker 1:We interrupt this regularly scheduled Gristle Infested conversation to give a special shout out to our friends at Fishman Transducers, makers of the Greg Koch Signature Fluence gristle tone pickup set can you dig that? And our friends at wildwood guitars of lewisville, colorado, bringing the heat in the shadow of the rocky mountains. So would you say? I mean, I'm just kind of thinking about all the different things that you've done. Obviously, you had to go to New York to make, I mean, existence could still be done if you lived in Cleveland versus your residency in New York in terms of opportunities, you know, professionally, so on and so forth.
Speaker 2:I would say a lot of it. I mean, I know comedians who live in, you know, and musicians who you know. The world has obviously changed a lot. Where you can, you know, I I'm confident, like if I moved to Cleveland, a move back there, that I could still do exactly what I do, like I wouldn't have to get a side gig selling shoes or whatever, which nothing against that at all. I'm just saying like I would be bad at it. Um, sure, I hear you, not at all. I'm just saying like I would be bad at it, you know, and I would, just it would. The customers and my boss would suffer.
Speaker 2:I don't see myself as the owner of the store is my point, but I think you know the big difference is like, despite any, you know technology and like you and I are chatting in this futuristic format that we couldn't have even imagined at one point. There is something to so many things that I've done have come from just being in the room and walking out. I can think of so many examples like I. This is. This story is very name droppy and horrifying, but I also think name droppy, horrifying stories are the best stories, of course, um, but so many things, uh, you know, like before I wrote my first book.
Speaker 2:Yes, I've written four books. Stop it. Yeah, stop it. But I was kind of getting together the sample chapters and proposal and my agent was he's like I was doing a live show of this American Life, the public radio show Yep, this American Life, the public radio show, yep. And my agent was like why don't you? You know, when Ira introduces you ask him if he'll say you're working on a book and you're looking for a publisher. So he did and I did the show. And I walked out of the dressing room and this woman walked up to me and she says like hi, I'm Allison, I work at St Martin's Press. We should do a book, oh Jesus. So like that's the sort of thing that happens.
Speaker 1:You know more in New York than it would in Cleveland, correct, because there's all these people here and like Well, you're much more likely to run into the name droppy types in New York as opposed to in Cleveland or, in my case, milwaukee, and so on and so forth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I think, like now, it's where the world is much smaller and you can, you know, like before, you know how many, whatever the internet, however long the internet's been around I would have to wait. I would have to wait and follow you. I would have to wait outside of a venue and follow you for blocks, greg, until you know. I'd be like there's this, he's going into that store, I'm going to follow him in there and that's how. And you know, then I would ask the store owner lock the door behind me, and that's how we would become friends. But but now, but, um, so just things like that.
Speaker 2:I think I think being in New York is is good for um, I don't think it's like you know, I talked to friends in LA and they're they're like why we don't even have meetings anymore. Everything's remote, on zoom right. I could could live anywhere, but my kids in high school here, so that's the only reason I'm here at this point, stuff like that. But, um, I also think, like you know, just a bigger city, obviously, like when, when I lived in cleveland and I, you know, at the time when I was there, aside from from playing music, I knew a lot of guys in bands. But I knew I wanted to write and I knew two guys who I'm like, oh, they're kind of doing writing.
Speaker 2:A couple local columnists. I'm like they're doing the kind of writing that I like, and then I moved here, I like, and then I moved here and then, without really trying, you're all you. You meet like all these people like, oh, I've read that guy's book or you know this woman's book, and for me, who is? I'm not like, uh, I think I work hard and motivated, but I'm not very goal oriented or have any idea how to be. Like I want to do that I'm going to make, to go make that happen. So for me to see someone sitting next to me like, oh, this is the guy that did that thing and he's just some guy. So now this suddenly seems doable to me. You know, he just picked his nose.
Speaker 1:I could do that.
Speaker 2:I can pick my nose and write a book now, so for me it was helpful. I don't believe people need to pick up and move to the big city to do less there are more exotic food options, though.
Speaker 1:Let's be honest.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, but that goes without saying. But I think if you do some digging, I had, I had, I had Cleveland pretty well mapped out for I've got.
Speaker 1:I've got the fair city of Milwaukee pretty mapped out myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I mean, when I came home, you know, I went to school here in New York and I came home one weekend back to Cleveland I never left and I mean I came back years later. But I just I knew I was like living in New York and I was like, well, what do I do now? And I just got the phone book out, cause again, there was a simpler time in the nineties and I just went back to the restaurant section and was like what's that? And I'm going to borrow my mom's car and drive to that restaurant, you know. And that's how I like, oh, now I got my Ethiopian place, I have my Thai place, I have, you know there's. Just you know there's not a hundred of everything like there is here.
Speaker 1:Right, so you went to college in New York. I was going to ask you where you went to school. Yeah, I went to Fordham in the Bronx.
Speaker 2:Oh, you did Catholic. This is, I mean, going back to you know, five siblings or four siblings, me being one of the five, I guess children we were like raised so super Catholic, like going to Catholic school, like we weren't. It was just like it was an unspoken thing that we would all have to go to Catholic schools if we wanted any education. So that's how kind of I just knew I wanted to be in New York. So I was like I'll go to Fordham, no having no plans at all to do any and this is obviously a privileged take on things but I was like I'm just going to go and blow my parents' money and form a band and draw cartoons, which is all I did. I've not used my degree whatsoever.
Speaker 1:You know, I was just thinking when you mentioned, you know, the Church of Rome. We went on a little bit of a talk about that when I was on your Axelords and there was a guy who commented who was a regular on my live streams and he's like I'm a fan of Greg's but I won't listen to him anymore because he made fun of the church. He's like we're not making fun of the church, we're just talking about our experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I saw that. I mean, I saw that comment and I was like yeah, that was interesting.
Speaker 1:But what are you going to do? But yeah, I grew up the same way. It's like my. I was the youngest of seven, wow. So by the time they got to me it was kind of my siblings would say that I got away with murder. But yeah, it was always. You know, catholic grades I did. The only reason why I didn't go to a Catholic grade school is because my sister that was closest to me in age had to go to the public school for some reason, and so they were like, well, as long as we're driving to that public school for her, we're going to have to take the youngest one there as well. But then once I got to middle school and high school, it was Catholic. And then of course I went, you know CCD and my parents they were yeah. So I know exactly what you're talking about. As far as that, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean it was completely like I wouldn't say I didn't know anyone that wasn't Catholic until I was 21.
Speaker 1:But if you did, you knew they were going to hell because they weren't of the one true faith.
Speaker 2:I mean I only knew the only people I knew that weren't Catholic. Like that I had words, weren't Catholic like there were, that I had words, whereas, like I played hockey growing up in the youth league and like I knew kids on that, on those teams, but everyone else in my orbit was like Catholic school people. So once I find like all through college, so once, like I finally got out of college, I was like a weirdo, like going around asking people. You know, once I had all kinds of friends of all different backgrounds. I'd be like what's this, what's that? I've been living in the dark all these years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, it's, it's a trip. And again, we're not making fun, we're just talking about our experience. No, so don't get. Don't get bent out of shape.
Speaker 2:It's interesting. Yeah, people, I have this one bit on the YouTubes that is about is like a retelling of a Bible story and it's completely not pro or against, it's just a goofy retelling.
Speaker 1:Oh, I've heard that. I was listening to that last night and I was howling, oh, thank you.
Speaker 2:But that like there's people I mean one of the things I didn't do it intentionally to be neutral, but like I think it just worked out that way and like I know people who are in church every Sunday who love it, and I know people that run in the other direction from churches and they love it. So but the reason I bring it up is there's still people who would be like how dare you offend my? You know, how dare you speak of Jesus like this? You know.
Speaker 1:It's like he invented the sense of humor. Let's just be honest. Yeah, so I think we're good, Exactly Crazy business. I was going to ask you. I had the thought of how is it different from how our audience is receptive If you're um opening up for, let's say, you know, mega comedian, whatever over the years, how receptive are audiences to the comedy of somebody else that they haven't come to see versus bands that are over, Because with bands it can be hit and miss. Sometimes we're like get these guys off stage, I want to see my guy, or whoever the case may be. Is comedy different? Are they more receptive?
Speaker 2:Or how does it? I think they're more if it's a comedy show, like if you're opening for a comedian, they're kind of like okay, let's do it, like show us. You know they're not like get off the stage generally, right, not in my experience, of course. But you know I've been opening for bands more often, um, or, like you know, in the case of Tenacious D, like a comedic band who is also an amazing, they're an amazing rock band also. Um, but I those in, uh, you know, and I've opened for all kinds of bands Like um, I don't know if you know the band down from new Orleans or, like you know, kind of a new Orleans sludgy hard rock supergroup. So they're buddies of mine. I've opened for them a few times.
Speaker 2:And, and, um, when I do things and you know I'm about to start this tour opening for Michael Shannon and Jason Narducci and I feel more pressure to when people are there to hear someone play songs, sometimes play actual songs in my set, even though most of it is like, I sort of liken it to like when zz top breaks the song down and billy gibbons just talks and they solo like but remove removes the song, I kind of let's say that's what I do, like I've removed the song and kept everything else, but, um, there's kind of more. You kind of have to go for it, like, and they're not gonna like. I really like I clearly like rambling a lot and a lot of my bits are like 10 minute bits where you kind of have to pay attention to the whole thing and it's kind of, you know, a heavy lift and kind of a demanding thing to someone who's just walking in with a beer and it's like this guy's out. So I tend to, when I'm opening shows like that, I tend to try to do quicker hit things where someone doesn't have to pay attention for more than.
Speaker 2:Because they do get restless and like, uh, it hasn't happened yet, knock on wood. But uh, you know, especially the tenacious d shows, like we last may we did arenas and that's like you know, 15 000 people right, and it a very small portion of 15 000 people. Even just a hundred of them who don't want you out there can get a lot of steam, oh, yeah and um. So I'm cognizant of that and and just go, I just, you know, I just try to kick as much ass as possible. I mean, I come out as hard as I can, you know, on all fronts, not just jokes and guitar. I have nunchucks, I have a fog machine.
Speaker 1:You're armed to the teeth. Yeah, I'm ready to do battle, so anyway Ask any parking pylon and they will speak of your great savagery.
Speaker 2:Exactly yeah. So that's the main thing is like yeah, try not. When I'm opening, I try not to like, be like here, pay attention to every word I'm saying and don't get lost for 10 minutes. Um, you can just kind of like on the tenacious, the first tenacious detour I did, I did this, I did the that bit, the Loaves and Fishes, jesus Story, yes, and it was like the first night of the tour and I could kind of feel it didn't go badly, but I could kind of feel it dipping down a little bit. Jason Narducci, who was just happened to be around, he was there and he was like, uh, he was like, yeah, he's like that's. It was too demanding for them, like they're just want to party, right. So the next night I switched it up and it went great and I did something else.
Speaker 2:I will also say, as long as I'm bringing up Jason, he was at that show and I'd originally I was like, oh, maybe you could play that night. And then it was decided that Scott and John was like oh, maybe you could play that night. And then it was decided that Scott and John from Tenacious D were going to back me up on bass and drums, and then I had my backup guitar on stage and before the show Jason's like do you think I could just come out and play the other guitar? Like not plugged in, I think he just wanted to be out there.
Speaker 2:I'm like, yeah, and he's an amazing musician. He plays with Bob Mould and Sunday Real Estate and Super Chunk and all this stuff, so he's no stranger to the stage. He's like I just want to come out there and be out there with you. So he's out there pretending to play my SG for most of the set and afterwards the monitor guy's like what amp are you coming out of? I was freaking out, I was trying to figure it out the whole set. He's like I wasn't even plugged in and he's like, oh, thank God. He's like I was losing my mind.
Speaker 1:That's fantastico. So how much of the year are you on the road? You do you reckon, how many gigs a year do you do, and what's the balance between roadwork and podcasts, and book writing and TV writing or whatever? That's all in your quiver, as they say.
Speaker 2:I've been on the road a lot more the last year and a half. I think just more opportunities have been coming along, which is great. And also, despite me being a mere 23 years old, I kind of feel like the clock is ticking on, like, uh, maybe opportunities and my physical state being able to, uh, I mean, I feel like I have plenty of gas in the tank, but I'm also like I, I can't, I don't, can't, wait five years. Right, I want to. I want to go out and do stuff now, because you know there's probably going to be the time I mean, the time is already here when I bitch.
Speaker 2:Anytime I have to leave the house, I complain about it, but I know when I get the weird thing about comedy and just performing in general, I absolutely love it, but I say that only because I know I love it when it's happening, and the rest of the time I'm completely horrified at the idea of going out in front of people and so there's a ton of anxiety with it and where my girlfriend has to remind me she's like you do this literally every time, you complain all day, and then I talked to you after and you're like it was great, it was great for the next one, right? I mean, I feel that way more with comedy, like guitar. I always say like, oh, I wish some band and I've done this before, like my friend walter schreifels, uh, as so, from quicksand and gorillailla Biscuits and stuff, I played in his solo band, just Guitar, and I had an amazing time because I'm like he's singing, he's talking, I'm just over here, I'm playing in a show that I would want to be at and that's like a great feeling, like I don't have to do anything other than be in the lobby at the right time and play the show. And so sometimes I'm like I wish I can't even think of what band it would be but I'm like, oh, I wish someone would call me, I could just have a cushy.
Speaker 2:Not, it wouldn't be cushy Cause, of course we all know that Rhoda's a cruel mistress. But, right, and my ego's far too big. I mean as much as fun as I had doing like stuff with Walter. And when I do things like that, there is always the moment after the show I'm like why doesn't anyone want to talk to me? You know, you're like wait, I was out there, everyone, right, what about me?
Speaker 1:I understand.
Speaker 2:But I do like it is fun to. I can't even remember why I brought this up. I yeah, sometimes I'm. I think it's like a bit. You know, the stress is, the anxiety is mostly is from like, oh, I got to talk and people, they're all going to throw rocks at me throw rocks at me.
Speaker 1:Well, I do want to talk about your glorious social media presence. For those who don't follow you on Instagram, they should, but your threads game is strong. Oh, thank you. Every day, it's another several delicious morsels. I forgot what day it was.
Speaker 2:Like it's Sunday, let's make it about the butt, and I was like oh, that's a good go-to, that's how I can always come back. That's sort of my. I like to do things to where it's funny on some level initially, and then it becomes a little funnier with the repetition. Then it's completely not funny and painful as it keeps going. Then it comes back around.
Speaker 1:It comes back around, that's my favorite thing. But I do enjoy your random Instagram things where you'll be in front of whatever business and then you will extemporize it. Hey, it's Dave from before I'm in front of. You know Chucho's kolaches and I you know, so on and so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I liked it. Yeah, the fake commercials. And then the funny thing is like, um, yeah, it's I. I never like leave the house. It's always I'm just out riding my bike or out for a run or walking around and I just do them for fun. And then, but I've had businesses contact me and be like hey, will you do my business? And I always I'm like I'm like, oh, you don't understand my art, it's not a, it can't be done if you've asked me to do it.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly, it's not part of the thing, you know. I just was thinking. I saw the thing Do you do cameo stuff? Do you do stuff like non cameo?
Speaker 2:I do. Yeah, I'm on cameo and uh, so if anyone please uh I in a perfect world, that's all I would do for money, because it's fun to be out.
Speaker 1:It takes 60 seconds.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll go, you know, and I price them to move, and I'll just be like sitting watching a movie with my girlfriend and I'll be like hang on, I'll be right, I'll be back in two minutes, and you know. And then, just well, I've just made a little money. I bought us pizza, I got us pizza money, right, you know so. But it but it adds up and it kind of it kind of ebbs and flows where, um, sometimes I'm like, oh, if this keeps up, this would be a nice little side hustle. And then all of a sudden, the world has decided they don't want my cameos anymore.
Speaker 1:Exactly when I first joined Cameo I was like, oh my God, maybe this is like you just said. This is a little side hustle. This came in and this came in and then nothing. But that's kind of just the nature of of of the show biz. You got all these different spigots, one squirting, the other one's kind of dripping, and all of a sudden one dies out and the other one goes.
Speaker 2:It's just like we do what we gotta do yeah, diversified portfolio, they call it down on well, somewhere. Um, but yeah, I was just talking with a friend about that, about, yeah, just the different things. Like oh, I gotta, you gotta have the sub stack.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I gotta do this, and like oh yeah and then like patreon, which I've kind of just started dipping my toes into, but like and for every one of these things you'll be like oh yeah, I make like some this is not me, that, this is the imaginary person talking. They're like yeah, I make 20 grand a month on that and all I do is brush my teeth and put it on video every two weeks or whatever. And it's like what? Yeah?
Speaker 1:exactly what are you doing?
Speaker 2:There's always someone crushing it like way more, in a way, that's, but that's. You know. You gotta, you know, free yourself of desire.
Speaker 1:Well, my my motto is like I've encountered people where it's like they will do anything within reason to go viral and my wife will be like, well, why don't you do more of that stuff? I go because my motto is what's the least I can do to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, also, I, you know and this is again not to bring up probably Catholicism creeping in but anytime I've ever, you know, anytime I've made like a video, whatever it is like one of those stupid fake ads or whatever stupid thing I'm doing, um, anytime I've ever been like this is gonna get him, this is a good one. Like it'll be like oh, no one might like that one. Like it got nothing and then probably the most popular, like like one of those fake ads. I was in portland and there this not even a store anymore, it's just the sign from a store that's now an art gallery called Trophies Unlimited, on I forget what street, and I was out for a killer run and I saw this sign and I was like, oh, I should do an ad for Trophies Unlimited. And then I was like, and I did it in one second and I was like that is so dumb and bad, I shouldn't even bother posting it. And then I was like fuck it, I'll throw it up there. And it got like 6 million views, yeah, and like, literally all these businesses in Portland were like come by, do you want free pizza? You know, and, and.
Speaker 2:But it's always the thing where you're just like well, this goes back to my, my, my sort of artistic motto is like if you, you really can only entertain yourself, and it's that was like the beginning and end of it Like cause, anytime you're thinking like what do people want, right? People like that's like so, not part of the equation and I hate to use social media as an example but literally anytime I'm like, yeah, this is really good, this is going to go viral. Definitely not going to go viral. Oh, I'm with you. And anytime I'm like this is so dumb, no one could possibly like this but me. That's the thing that always, I agree.
Speaker 1:I agree with you a thousand percent. The things that you know from a recording point of view of the stuff that we've done, there's been stuff where I've been like, hey, this this sounds cool, I like the sound, I'll just make this thing up, I give a key and away we go and those are the tunes that do the best. And you're like all this other shit where you've you've concentrated and arranged and made sure that everything was this, that the next thing, no one gives a shit. But all of a sudden some extemporaneous you know kind of pull it out of your posterior and it's like, oh, that's what people like. But to your point it's like entertain yourself and don't worry about it and it'll all come out in the wash.
Speaker 2:Hopefully yeah, hopefully. Well, the way I look at it now is I'm like, oh well, I've I spent so many years being like when I'm when, when is like the universe going to be on to me and I'm going to be dragged back to that whatever uh, quote unquote real world hell that I was trying to escape, you know, like the shoes store that exists in my mind, and, um, I used to think about that like, oh, like, is this going to work? How can I just keep being you know, doing, you know, being an artist and doing these things or whatever? And then now I'm like I'm too old, I'm feral, this is what I do, right, and polite society would never welcome me back. So now I just have to ride it out until I die, because that's the only option really.
Speaker 1:I think that's the next book the Feral man.
Speaker 2:But I think that should have been my attitude from the get-go. It's just like I'm not going back. I'm not going, you know, getting a job like my mother wanted me to oh my. God yes of course.
Speaker 1:When are you going to get a real job or when do you think you're going to stop doing this? That was always one of my favorites, but what are you going to do it all? It all pans out at some point, hopefully.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Another thing that kept me going in the lean years when I didn't have the opulence. You see the sweet opulence. But I always thought well, I know, as long as I don't completely alienate all my friends and family, there's going to be at least a handful of buffets with cocktail, shrimp and all-I-can-eat stuff a few times a year. As long as I just keep a clean shirt and reasonable manners, no matter what happens in my life, I'm still going to get invited to a Christmas party or something.
Speaker 1:And the shrimp is key.
Speaker 2:Yeah, To me that's the, you know. Yeah, that's what keeps me going, Just at least symbolically. I do like a cocktail shrimp. Oh, it's a delight. Yeah. Especially around the holidays. Oh yeah, you get a nice sweater, turtleneck maybe. Uh-huh, that's right, some cocktail shrimp.
Speaker 1:Get together for a little. Did you do the white elephant gift exchange? That's always a banger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it's been harder, like with my family, with nieces and nephews, and then we did do like a proper gift exchange, like Secret Santa or whatever.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, yeah, I did do like a proper gift exchange like Secret Santa or whatever, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And my one sister and I love all my siblings, but she didn't. She's like I haven't gotten you anything yet, but I'm going to this is, you know, it's December 28th by now. And then she's like, hey, how about I donate to a charity in your name? And I was like, well, that's not how this works, but okay. And then I suggested a charity. She's like I don't like that one, how about this one? And I called the sibling in charge of the siblings and I said we're done with this, we're not doing it anymore. I was robbed. We haven't done it since since. Now it's just gifts for nieces and nephews yes, and that's the way it should be.
Speaker 1:Yep, we had a few funny years. There was this tradition it was like spend 25 on a gift in the you know it's 25 for a boy gift and 25 for a girl gift. There would be a separate exchange and and one year my nephew, who was allowed in the adult exchange, he had this big coffee table book that he spent 25 bucks on at Barnes Noble and it was birds of prey, and I ended up with birds of prey, and so the next year I just put $25 in the Birds of Prey and then gave it back, and so then it became the white elephant gift and we'd all be chanting Birds of Prey, birds of Prey, a little cock revelry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was good, clean fun, the Birds of Prey.
Speaker 2:I am curious about this book, though it seems like it would be like a, you know, maybe not the coffee table book you put on top, but if you got a stack, oh yeah, it's a bag Top three.
Speaker 1:You open it up. Fierce birds engaging in some kind of hunting savagery.
Speaker 2:Talk about going feral. Yeah, it's the only time you can really. You know it's sanctioned violence or something, I don't know exactly. I watched a hawk eat a rodent a couple years back and it was just. I was like I felt bad for the rodent, of course, but I was like this is interesting, just watch just nature.
Speaker 1:Well you know what, if you watch one of those videos on tiktok're going to see a thousand.
Speaker 2:Oh, don't get me started on what the internet seems to think I'm into.
Speaker 1:All I will say is that the wild dog pack is the most savage thing on the planet. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:The wild dogs of the.
Speaker 1:African of the Serengeti Stand clear they're a ruthless, a ruthless gang. As you pet your dog, Don't devour.
Speaker 2:Don't worry, Don't worry poor Lucy. She's the least ready for the wild dog you've ever met.
Speaker 1:I understand, Listen thank you so much for spending some time with us today. It was an absolute pleasure.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I'm absolutely honored. I'm such a fan of everything you do.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much, Likewise From the playing to the humor, to the whole thing. Well, thank you very much. I hope we get to cross All the gristle, all the gristle. Yeah, thank you very much. I hope we get to cross All the gristle, all the gristle. Yeah, the sweet gristle, yeah, I hope we get to cross paths in person one of these days.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm coming to Milwaukee March 13th. I don't know, I haven't cross referenced your schedule, but I will be there.
Speaker 1:We do have something in Phoenix on the 16th, but hopefully I will still be in town then the 16th but hopefully I will still be in town then, Okay.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I feel like a monster. I've been. I physically couldn't be at your shows the last two times you've been here.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right, the Iridium.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the first time no one needs to know this, but the first time it sold out before I could procure tickets and that was a shame on me. And then the second time was also a shame on me because I, stupidly, was already booked on a show that couldn't get out. I feel like a monster. No, it's unacceptable. It's unacceptable, it's unacceptable. But yeah, I'm such a fan and you're I mean you probably more than anyone else are in that category in my mind, in the category of where, whenever you play, I think I should set my guitars on fire. Don't do that. You know it's that level. You know there's other guys that I won't name where you're like well, if I work hard, I could maybe do something close to that With you. I'm like why do I have fingers? This is a pointless endeavor.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm flattered. I don't know about that, but I'm flattered. Well, listen, my friend, you take it easy. Hopefully I will be in town, and if I'm not, we will hopefully cross paths sooner than later.
Speaker 2:Well, leave, you know, tell your family I'm swinging, I need a place to crash.
Speaker 1:So we got a place.
Speaker 2:The. Gristle Castle is yours, all right, my friend, you have a good one, thank you. Thanks for having me have a great day. My pleasure, you too. Bye.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks for tuning in, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Chewing the Gristle. We certainly do appreciate you stopping by. Make sure you tell your friends all about us. I think they might enjoy themselves. So thanks again for tuning in and we'll see you next time.
