Chewing the Gristle with Greg Koch
Listen in on Greg Koch's conversations with his guitar-hero friends. Every episode Greg unleashes his fiendish humor and unique perspective as "one of the most famous unknown guitar players in the world", asking his often-famous musical friends the questions that we all want to know the answers to! Each episode is brought to you by Fishman and Wildwood Guitars
Chewing the Gristle with Greg Koch
Joe Bonamassa Returns: Blues, Guitars, and Business Savvy
Guitar virtuoso Joe Bonamassa returns to Chewing the Gristle, bringing his characteristic wit and wisdom as he prepares for an ambitious European tour season. This conversation between two master guitarists reveals the realities of sustaining a music career with both artistic integrity and business savvy.
Bonamassa takes us behind the scenes of his upcoming three-month European adventure, which includes solo performances, a Black Country Communion reunion after 14 years, and a special tribute to blues legend Rory Gallagher. The logistics are fascinating – he maintains duplicate touring rigs for Europe and America, a practical response to shipping costs that have nearly tripled since the pandemic.
The highlight comes when Bonamassa shares treasures from his 1,200+ instrument collection, including his beloved "Principal Skinner" 1959 Les Paul. Rather than treating these vintage pieces as museum exhibits, he plays them regularly, embracing each new ding and scratch as part of their continuing story. "They're not out here to be preserved," he explains, challenging the collector mentality that prioritizes value over music-making.
What truly distinguishes this episode is Bonamassa's candid assessment of music business realities. After discovering early in his career that middlemen were taking substantial portions of his performance fees, he developed a direct-to-consumer approach that has sustained his career. "My motto is I don't need millions, I just need enough," he shares, articulating a philosophy that values artistic fulfillment over commercial peaks.
For aspiring musicians, Bonamassa offers both sobering and inspiring advice: "You have to love this thing so much that you're willing to take a vow of poverty, still be happy, and can't live with yourself if you don't play." It's this unwavering passion, combined with business acumen, that has enabled his enduring career in the often unforgiving music industry.
Ready to hear more wisdom from one of blues rock's most successful independent artists? Subscribe now and journey through the musical landscape with Joe Bonamassa and your host, Greg Koch.
Ladies and gentlemen, can you believe it? It's already time for season six of Chewing the Gristle with yours truly, Greg Cox. So many delightful conversations to look forward to. We'll talk about music. Yes, sure, but you know what else we're going to talk about. Anything that comes to mind. So stay tuned. We'll talk about music. Yeah, sure, but you know what else we're going to talk about. Anything that comes to mind. So stay tuned. We got some good ones for you. Chewing the Gristle, Season 6.
Speaker 1:Ladies and gentlemen, this week on Chewing the Gristle, we have the mighty return of Joe Bonamassa. I've known Joe for many, many years and we've had a chance to get together lately. Do a little jamming Thought. It would be fun to get him back on the podcast and chew the gristle a little bit about what he's been doing and what's been happening. So, without any further ado, let's get it Joe Bonamassa. This week on Chewing the Gristle. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, once again we gather around the gristle fire for a little Chewing the Gristle sesh. Today we have the mighty Joe Bonamassa on a return visit, the legendary axeman, bluesman, vocalist, world traveler, guitar collector. You know, Joe, what the hell's going on there. Big Daddy, Are you out in California, eh?
Speaker 2:I am out in California and I'm leaving tomorrow. For well, I don't know when this is going to air, but by the time it airs, I will be embarking on a 12-week, three-month extravaganza in Euro.
Speaker 1:Euro disney, gonna be there all summer oh my lord, now that's kind of a long run. I mean, don't you like to parse it out a little bit more than that is kind of an unusually long run it's going to be unusually long.
Speaker 2:It's four, four tours, um, it's a solo tour. Uh, then we have the mighty black country, communion, reuniting after, yes, 15 years, for our first tour, literally in almost 14 years. That's great. And uh, then I have a tribute to the great uh, rory gallagher. Yes, the g.
Speaker 1:The second g is silent by the way, I did not know that. I now know that.
Speaker 2:Now, if you're talking about Oasis, it's Gallagher. I got it, it's Gallagher. The 2nd G is silent. And you know who correct me on that? Roy's brother Wild and his nephew. No, the 2nd G is silent and we have a tribute to him three nights at the Marquee Club in Cork, and, and we have a tribute to him, three nights at the Marquee Club in Cork and a couple of days off. And then I do some touring with my own band again, we're doing some festivals over there, and then I come home like July 21st. So you know, from literally April through July, I'll be, I'll be over in Europe. You know. Well, that will be, you know it'll be'll be, festive.
Speaker 1:Yes, are you looking forward to it?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's going to be great. It's a lot of adventures and and and uh, we're doing a one-off orchestra show at the norsey jazz festival in july, so we have to revisit our hollywood bowl arrangements. Oh nice, you know, I realized that the hollywood bowl that you can't eat, there's no, there's no improv. The orchestras don't like to improv, no, no. Hollywood bowl that you can't, there's no, there's no improv.
Speaker 2:The orchestras don't like to improv, no no, you gotta keep just like you can't just twirl your hand around, I'll just take another chorus, not happening yeah, they need things to be set or else there's problems there's real problems.
Speaker 2:And you know, what I'd realize too is is the conductor and the orchestra, as great musicians as they are, they read and play what's on that chart, right, and and it it. They'll run you off the cliff if you have directed them to run you off the cliff, right, so it's, they're playing it and they're going hey, it's on the sheet, that's how they're. They're not like us, where we, we just make it up as we go along, right we're we're able to uh, with a wink and a nod diverge yeah, it's like.
Speaker 2:You know it's trying to. You know, steer a cruise ship, you know, in the grand prix of monte carlo. Yeah, monaco yes, indeed.
Speaker 1:Now will you be taking your current rig from the US of A over there for these activities, including the majestic Lowell George Dumble?
Speaker 2:No, the Lowell George amp will be staying stateside Like anything in this world. Why have one when you can have two at twice the price? Well, of course, I have a second amp shanty that goes over once a year for all our European adventures. And there's a second set of guitars. And I started doing that because the cost of shipping gear since the pandemic has almost tripled. Since the pandemic has almost tripled.
Speaker 2:So we decided to build out a second set of production boxes, work boxes, all this other stuff, wardrobe cases that we leave over there. Because you know, if you ship a ham and b3 from the us to europe and back, you've purchased said ham and b3. So we just decided to buy a second one and leave it over there. So it's, it's more efficient. But I send the rig, I send the second rig over and, um, it's just as loud. So nobody has to worry about that. It's just as obnoxious and loud, and and and. So a second rig goes over there and and and it comes back, um, it comes back, uh, I think in september, and so it does the whole, it'll do the whole summer, because I I don't like to leave guitars over there and stuff just sitting in the cold, and you know right, some storage layer yeah so I, I like to get, get, get all the kids back at the end of the year, parcel them out, and then, you know, we start again.
Speaker 1:Excellent so do you? Is it? Is it pretty consistent with what you're using in the states? I mean, or do you like? Hey, I'm going to bring this stuff and I'll kind of maybe I'll lean towards a little different material because I'm bringing over this different rig yeah, I had to.
Speaker 2:Guitar wise, I actually brought I try to bring two, two of everything you know a primary guitar and then a backup, in case you know. So there's two sgs, two, less pauls, two, three, three, fives. Um, because of the black country communion, uh, reunion, I, I decided that, uh, um, I was going to bring a less paul junior. Oh nice, I was going to like, yeah, I'm going to rock out a little bit and also the junior will clean up better. At some of these kind of hard rock festivals we're playing with Black Country Communion, in case they start throwing mud at me and anything that they decide, you know, to throw on the stage, because you know, if they don't like the way I'm playing, they throw things so interesting. So the junior, the junior is going to take the brunt of that. Um, but you know, I mean there's there's always two tallies, two strats, and I sent a whole another group of strats over for the rory gallagher thing, including my green, uh that's one of course I go.
Speaker 2:This guitar has ireland written all over it yes, perfect it's like it's like the irish spring commercial.
Speaker 1:It's like it just, it's just, it just you know, what's interesting about the uh, the rory situation is that you know, a lot of what I got into was influenced by my brother's record collection and then I kind of kind of connected the dots from there and rory was never in that thing, and then I would hear stuff here and there as I was growing up and then doing my own thing and so on and so forth and I was like that's cool. But you know, I'm already into this guy and this guy and this guy and anyway, so make a long story. I mean, it wasn't only until like maybe 20 years ago I was playing in Germany somewhere and these two Irish guys flew over to see us because we didn't have anything booked in Ireland. So they came over, said we're big fans, we wanted to come and see you and we wanted to give you, because they had heard somewhere along the line that I was never really into Rory, just because I just never was. And they gave me a copy of that.
Speaker 1:You know, the live 74 tour thing and then I got it and I love the songs. Of course I love the way that he plays and but I just love the tunes. I love the vibe. You know, he kind of I don't know if you how you feel about it, but he's he kind of reminds it's like the irish roy buchanan in a way his approach on the instrument. You know what I?
Speaker 2:mean, yeah, the pinch harmonics that he's kind of leaned on and you know, doing the deep dive. Donald and Daniel invited me to do this and they had a few guitar players in mind and they wanted to pay tribute to Rory. This year would be the 30th anniversary of his passing in 1995. And they wanted to do a tribute and they, they, they went down a list. This year will be the 30th anniversary of his passing in 1995. And they wanted to do a tribute and they, they went down a list. They asked a couple of people that are much higher pay grade who respectfully declined.
Speaker 2:And then then I get a call and they're like, hey, do you want to do this thing in Cork? And I go, yeah, no problem, right. And I hang up the phone and I go, yeah, that's going to be a be a real big challenge, you know, because it's like he was, he was intense, he, he had, he had so many, he just would, he had so much energy, right, and those songs, the way he delivered them. And I finally said, when we did the press rollout and I already flew over the cork and we did that, we played like three songs and I finally said I, I'm, you know there's, there's rory galler tribute guys that do that.
Speaker 2:You know, kind of like. You know, queen has a tribute band and the eagles and right they dress the part and they and they and they anorak the shit. You know they go. Well, you know this is, this is the, the uh, the version from the cork opera house 1973. And like I'm not going to do any of that because I can't, you know, I I'm not rory, you know, but I can do your own thing with it doing my own thing and and, and you know I can only do what I do in in the best possible, with the best possible intentions and in the spirit.
Speaker 2:You know it's like saying you know, do a jimmy hendrix tribute show, it's like nobody's hendrix right. You know it's like and why, if you're gonna do sound alike stuff, we already have the original version exactly, and so. So that's, that's gonna be my summer and and I'm really looking forward to it. You know we've, we've, we've been to europe so many times. You know it and it's and it's like it never gets old.
Speaker 2:It's always an adventure, it is it is always fun over there I churches I, although I I've stopped visiting some of the the same churches and steeples of of yesteryear you know. I mean I've gone up the spiral staircase, I've got the vertigo right at all, you know, and I'm like but you like to go for strolls?
Speaker 1:I love, I love going for strolls over there, just going out and walking through the countryside, because there's they actually have like walking paths everywhere.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, the thing with Europe they never got away from the city center concept. Right, like you know, america, the, you know, travel around america and there is always those old downtowns that are just completely abandoned or like a vape shop and you know whatever. But in europe, the, the whole community still revolves around the city center. So you could, you could walk for hours and there's shops, and you know, they never got the strip mall concept that we've so embraced here in America. Come on, it's like how many times in America you just travel through these towns and it's like there's a strip mall and like, yep, there's a Texas Roadhouse, there's a Guitar Center, right, there's Joanne Fabrics, exactly.
Speaker 1:They're on the way out.
Speaker 2:Oh, I heard, when am I going to get the Velcro for the pedal boards? There you go. It's crazy, but you know what I mean. It's like each town in America has kind of lost its identity because we've strip malled it, right, I agree. And then now all the strip malls and malls are closing. So now it's left. It's like it's just going to be an Amazon Depot oh good Lord and a Chick-fil-A.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, one of the things about Europe too that's fun which I, some people, just don't understand, is the German breakfast. It's just the delicious cold cuts with those warm rolls and I get there and I just can't wait to wake up in the morning and have and have breakfast, which is really lunch.
Speaker 2:It is lunch and and for me it's so counterintuitive to how I roll on, the like when I, when I'm home, I wake up kind of early. I wake up like seven, 30 in the morning and I'm like you know, but when I'm on tour, especially at night, after the gig, it's like like before noon is off the table, you know, because I'm trying to hit that apex curve at eight o'clock and and you know so, but the German breakfast, it gets me up. Yeah, Like you know, it's like what time you serving breakfast, and my band loves it too because it's part of the hotel. Yes, it's baked in. You know exactly. And and there's been many a times in in america where some members of saying, like of my group gone, I have two eggs, an english muffin, an orange juice and a, a coffee. It was $75. I'm like it ain't Germany.
Speaker 1:That's right, you know, listen, what's crazy about Germany is that, even if it's a cheap hotel, the breakfast is happening. It's happening. It's not like when you say it's a cheap hotel in the States where it's just like you get this continental offering. It's like for real.
Speaker 2:It's like powdered eggs, you know. And it's like powdered eggs and country time, lemonade and orange juice mix, right. And then the boxes you'll see in the back of the hotels there's boxes and they're stenciled. You know, us Department of Corrections, right. This is true, loaded in.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you something just about practicing and stuff. I mean, what kind of stuff do you like to work on? I mean, I play along with records all the time still.
Speaker 1:You know, I'll just be like you know, I haven't played along with so-and-so and I'll do that and I might learn some more. But I'm just curious, what is your take? I mean obviously you. I mean obviously you're. You're working, and you're working on new songs and working on repertoire, working for this Rory thing and so on and so forth, but for the fun of it, what are you working on?
Speaker 2:You know I, I like to like when I come home off off the tour, the last thing I want to listen to is blues rock. Like it's just plumbers don't want to fix pipes on their day off. You know it's like that's what I do. I do blues rock. So I like playing along to like Bruce Hornsby records. You know, like stuff with like more adult changes than I'm used to and you know, trying to figure out, okay, okay, how do I play over these changes? And you know just little things and I, you know I have, you know I live in a house of guitars. You know I mean, you know I just pray there's no earthquake because I'll be killed by You'll be bludgeoned.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but so one of the things that I like to do is, for me, is I just kind of zone out. I have a little speaker in the corner of this room next to the train wreck here and and I and I basically just bluetooth something. Right, I play at very low volume, which is once again you've been on our stage many times counter counterintuitive to what everybody thinks. I play at super low volume, um, because this guy does not like crowds or loud music. It's just so such an oxymoron.
Speaker 2:But but I, I basically I play at low volumes and sometimes I I stumble upon new stuff and sometimes, if I'm just retreading the same old path, I put it down and I and I don't play for a day or two and then I'll, then I'll pick it up and I play a lot of acoustic guitars which I don't play, you know, and I find that that just kind of keeps the road chops up a little bit, a little more resistance, you know. And but you know, intrinsicallyically I'm an electric guitar player, so you know, it's as long as the tone's right, and I, you know feeling it and you know it's just like break out a strat or a telly or less paul, and, and just see what I can get out of it.
Speaker 1:You know right so with your, your arsenal of so many glorious instruments, I mean, obviously you have your favorites, but have you noticed like freakish examples of like, especially like the iconic instruments you know, like of your old burst last pause? It's like, yeah, they're all pretty good, this one's like, but this one it's got. The supernatural thing is, is it like that or are they all kind of in the wheelhouse?
Speaker 2:No, I mean when you're talking about like a Summers Les Paul, they all vary and some of the ones that I have, a lot of my collection not a lot of people see because it's especially on stage, it's very mint, it's very well-preserved, all original. That's what I collect. You know what I play is the stuff that sounds great, you know right, and you know the stuff that I put frets on and and and you know and with. When you talk about it, like, like I always say, the best sunburst les paul you'll ever play is a 335, ah, but like a 1960, they tend with the shorter neck tenons and especially when you get into the later sixties they tend to have more.
Speaker 2:In my opinion, the classic burst sound you know like the English burst sound like. You know like like Clapton had a 60, you know he bought it from Andy Summers and they tend to be biters. And sometimes when you get the bigger necks on 58s and 59s, I mean again, it's a case-per-case basis they tend to they don't have the chime Right, but I will show you one. Yes, please.
Speaker 2:This is the one they're going to bury me in. This is my favorite. This is Principal Skinner. Okay, and how it got its name? Well, I'm a big Simpsons fan, but this was known as the Skinner Burst among collectors in the early 2000s and it was consigned to the Skinner Auction House in Boston and that's where it was sold and my friend bought it and he sold it to me in 2010, 2011,. Sorry, and like this was known as the Skinnerverse, and I said, well, I'll just slap a principal Skinner sticker on the case and we have a. We now have a name right and I've owned it for almost 15 years and this one does everything as a les paul.
Speaker 2:Should it, doesn't it? It? It matters, not that it's a 1959, it just doesn't. It doesn't matter, it could be an 89. This, as a les paul, is got that perfect. The front pickup has got that like really kind of hollow, almost straddy thing, like you know, bruce Conti, that tower of power, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm middle. The middle position is great for rhythms and it and it does that, it does that, doesn't do the Jimmy page quack, but it does that really cool like just middle position, gibson, and the treble pickup is the best balance of biting and moaning that I know. You know some of them moan and it's just like man, there's not enough poke on the note Right and some are way too bright. This one has the best balance.
Speaker 2:And this one, you know it's been played, it was a big belt buckle on, you know, and that's my favorite. And when this was sold in 2006, it set the record at the time, which has now been shattered many times. It set the record for the highest price ever paid for a non-celebrity guitar. Oh, no shit. And it was on the cover of a magazine and the guy who consigned it with um uh, skinner auction house, his father gave him. His father was the original owner and gave him the guitar. He played it and when he retired from the as a chief of police in benton Minnesota, he wanted, he asked his father permission to sell the guitar because he knew it was valuable and he wanted to buy a log cabin on the lake as part of his retirement. This guitar turned into a log cabin on the lake and yeah, and it's. It's just a great Les Paul.
Speaker 2:And one of the most important things is because, you know, in certain circles I'm known as like the king corksniffer, but it doesn't matter what year it is. Any guitar that speaks to you, it can be made two days ago or 60, you know, 65 years ago, doesn't matter, 66 years ago, doesn't matter. If it speaks to you and it makes you reach for it, makes the right hand reach for it, that's your car Totally. And I try, I have to. You know, for years, when I first started playing the Sunburst stuff live, it would play me because I would look down and I'm like you know, like you know, making sure I'm not like you know. Now I just grab them and play Right, right, they're not out here to be preserved. You know, and, and you know, this one here has a little ding on the wall. It's got a lot of things, but it has a little ding right here on the top Probably can't see it and it's the John Hyatt scratch 2011.
Speaker 2:When I got it and John Hyatt was nice enough to come for two nights at the Beacon theater in New York city and he sang, um, he sang a couple of songs for our DVD and, and at the end of the second night, I just go, ladies and gentlemen, john Hyatt, and he's got a J 200 with, uh, you know, strings poking out and goes to give me a hug and the headstock hits the top of this thing and puts a little dick in it.
Speaker 2:It's a John Hyatt scratch Perfect. And at the time people were saying, you know, some of the, some of the older kind of sunburst guys and vintage guys were saying, hey, listen man, we see you're playing like a real 59 on the road. You know, every scratch you put in it takes a thousand dollars off the value. And I said, well, if I put 265 scratches on it, does it work nothing, right, exactly? I'm like what kind of fucking logic is that? Right, you know? And and so, yeah, there's stuff like this. And then there's stuff that's, you know, looks like it was made yesterday, like this this room's full of surprises, oh, there you go.
Speaker 2:This is a really perfectly preserved TV junior from 57, you know that got a big neck on it. It got the big neck on it and you know some days it stays in tune and some days it's like don't even bother looking at it, you know. So there's like this is what I collect, that's what I play, you know. But I try to surround myself, you know. You know I mean the people we've had film crews document my mental illness. You know, and and and hoarding for for many years now should be no shock to anyone that my house, when you come into my house here in la um, even though after the fires I evacuated about a hundred things out of here but uh, it kind of looks some to the hoarder in me, it looks like I got robbed but it's still way too much you know, and, and you know, the thing is, I'll, I'll show you, it's'll, show you, it's.
Speaker 2:The room keeps going, oh yeah. And then you know there's that, and then all these and all the pedals, you know. So I'm nothing if not consistent, and I don't apologize for it. There's been many years where people are like going, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, why don't you, why don't you save some for the rest of us? I'm like I don't buy it. And it just there's thousands of guitars for sale today. Sure, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:I mean, even if they're not, collectors have 20, you know you know you're still a a young lad, but do you, do you think about an exit strategy at some point of? Well, when I get to this point, I'm going to do, maybe do this with all of this stuff.
Speaker 2:Well, I have to, you know. I mean, when you become a guitar collector of this kind of severity and I'm like just don't do this, kids, don't do this to yourself when you become a guitar collector of this, this, whatever level you have, I I feel I have a responsibility to my friends and the guitar collecting community to say, like if I, if I walked in here in this house alone and said you know what I'm sick of looking at tweed fender amps, I'm just I can't. It's like I'm allergic to them, right, and I said let's sell them all. Just here, within 50 feet of where I'm sitting, there's 125 all in mint condition. Yeah, I'll sell the first 40 quick and then the values will go down. So in certain tranches of this thing I have the ability to adversely affect the market. Yeah, and I go.
Speaker 2:If I ever decided I was not interested in these anymore, I have 16. You can't put 16 up for sale all at the same time. So the exit strategy will have to be very measured and deliberate because of how vast it is. There's like 1,200 pieces in the collection between guitars and amps's. You just can't put it all out for sale. You know, if I get hit by a bus, my niece and nephew are going to do the big auction and and people are going to buy it all and I don't care what they get for it, and and they'll, you know, the, the, the, the live a full and happy life, and anybody who gets anything too cheap at that auction, I'm going to haunt from beyond the grave.
Speaker 1:Is it true that you said that if you think I'm bad, you should see Rick Nielsen? Is he more of a hoarder than yourself? He's kind of a buddy of mine. I've not been to his place yet, but we've played together a bit, but I've not been to his house.
Speaker 2:Rick is one of the reasons why I did this. I got his book like we is one of the reasons why I did this. I got his book like we all did in the nineties Right and and when I was doing you know coming up and I was opening up for cheap trick and and you know I'd see a sunburst, les Paul and all this iconic old stuff in the rack and I'm like going he uses it. He's been a real inspiration for a lot of people who are going what am I saving it for? Now he's got stuff that got stashed away and he's proud of and, like me, doesn't want to, you know, take it out and beat it up.
Speaker 2:But you know, I look at it as a collector. I look at it from the point of view is it's functioning art Americana? I look at it from the point of view is it's functioning art Americana? Everything in this room was made in America and that's every screw and pickup and tuning key and it's functioning art. I don't look at it like stocks. I know some people that get into it hot and heavy, come in and they're like we hear these are great investments. You have to get your head around it like one day. This could be worth zero right, but it does still make you happy right yeah, yeah, I got you, you know.
Speaker 2:And if you're not happy, then you have to find that that cold, dark, empty spot in your soul. Address that with, with, with psychotherapy. Right, this is. This is years of pent up, like, like, like this could have all been avoided if I just went to therapy. And this is what happened. And and don't do this, don't do this to yourself not good.
Speaker 1:So I was going to ask you about, you know, as, as we kind of, you know, we're not, none of us are getting any younger, right, and we look back and kind of music we're into and it's it's unusual that, uh, you know, roots-oriented music blues rock, you name it has maintained a level of popularity. Well, I make this analogy. It's like, you know, my parents were World War II people and they did not, you know, they thought our music was noise. You know what I mean. It's like when I was growing up and I was and playing stuff, I was like listen to that noise.
Speaker 1:I mean they, like you know my dad would go see big bands back in the day, uh and uh, it was into trini lopez, I guess was his pop, you know thing that he was into. Um, but by comparison, when you look the period of time from, okay, they were in their 20s and the 40s, and then you know 20 years later they were in their twenties and the forties, and then you know 20 years later they're totally divorced from what the kids are into. But by the same token, how many people are kind of playing stuff that I mean, look at the Zeppelin movie. How many people are going out and seeing the Zeppelin? We're like, oh my God, these guys were great. All that stuff is still quasi contemporaneous, right, and I'm just wondering what your thoughts are is how long is that going to last you?
Speaker 2:know what I mean, you know what's, you know. What's interesting to me is how we're still talking about jimmy hendrix. You know, the bob dylan movie was one of the most popular movies, yeah, you know. And it was set in what? 1962. Yeah, greenwich Village and the music that happened between 1960 and 1975. Let's just use it Right. You know, has stood the test of time.
Speaker 2:And and you know, the classics are the classics, but people are still hip and cool and love, love them. Some led zeppelin, you know, and, and nobody's, you know, very few people still look back with, with, with longing and going. Man, I wish that jitterbug would come back and not to say that that lewis, armstrong and all that stuff wasn't timeless classics, you know, is it? And what I think now, what gives me hope, is that I see a cast and a group of young people, both male and female, playing at a level that I could have only wished at, wished I had the skills when I was 15 and 16. And I was, and I kind of went down the rabbit hole. I'm like, well, how are these kids getting so good so fast? And I said, the good thing about the internet is the information is right here, right, it's all the way you want to learn how to play riviera paradise.
Speaker 2:You want to learn how to play this. You want to learn how to play that. It's all there, right, and they never had to put nickels and dimes on on needles and shove them back. You know 16 bars and go, what is that? And then you know you're slowing the thing down. You know, now they have the technology to like, you can slow something down in real, in real time, exactly In tune, yeah, in tune, and that's amazing.
Speaker 2:And you know, look at how popular the Grateful Dead's music is now it's arguably as popular as it's ever been. Right, true, and I was never a deadhead and didn't go down that rabbit hole, but, but, but, you're, but you're sitting there, going, well, a whole new generation is discovering this, this music. So to your question I don't think it's going to last forever, but I think to every, every time music gets too canned, manipulated, auto-tuned and and and AI'd, there's going to be an equal and opposite reaction where, where there's still people that want to see no net live music singing, right and and something organic and mechanical. You know it's like, why is vinyl back? Well, it's mechanical, it's a binary thing, people, people, what you know?
Speaker 2:A stick shift in a car. Most people don't know how to drive a four-speed, but if you collect old cars like like an air-cooled Porsche with a factory four-speed, that's a valuable car. Why it's because it's mechanical and you get maybe air conditioning, maybe heat and a couple of buttons. Now the cars are smarter than we are. True, you know what I mean Driving for us and you take it to an extreme on one side. Take it to extreme on the other side, and that's why it's still kind of relevant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean we were talking last time we were in the same room about just this whole idea of you know so many, even some of the iconic artists that are left around touring from that kind of grail period, are playing along with ancillary tracks and to grids and stuff like that, because it it uh lends a level of quality to their performance that has kind of become what I guess I don't want to say the boomers, that they want to hear it exactly how it was in the record, which is interesting because the live versions is what we all would look forward to when we were younger to see how are they going?
Speaker 1:to pull this shit off live. But now it's kind of twisted a little bit where they they don't know. I want to hear it on the record, like it was on the record. And if you veer, they're kind of they kind of feel like they're getting, uh, you know they're making their money's worth yeah, and and the.
Speaker 2:The problem, you know is, is like the worst thing I ever did in a live performance. The worst habit I ever got into was in 2014. We were in between tours and we had these three shows booked, one at Red Rocks and then two warm-up shows, and we were recording a DVD called Muddy Wolf. Yep, my little tribute to Muddy Waters and Holland Wolf Put them all together Half the show's Muddy, half the show's Holland Wolfe, and then the encore was the ballad of John Henry and to the wee, wee hours, and we had three days of rehearsal. It was 17 new songs.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to cram lyrics into my brain and you know, and I'm like, well, I'm just gonna have to put some cheat sheets down, and then my then production manager goes you don't have to do that, I got you. Next thing, you know, at first rehearsal there's a screen and these green letters Song number one Tiger in your Tank, and there's the lyrics, right, and I go, okay, cool, we'll use it for these songs, we'll use it for these three shows. But whatever, next thing, you know, hey, you still got that teleprompter. And it's the worst habit in the world because I should know the lyrics to slow jit. I should know the lyrics. I've sang it 2 000 times. But once you, once you cross that, once you accept the help, sometimes it's impossible to go back.
Speaker 1:It's like a map app on your phone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how did we ever make it to gigs without a sat-nav in the car? Exactly, you know, it's like, yeah, we had MapQuest or we had a Rand McNally, yeah, and it was like and you're with the highlighter.
Speaker 1:Right, I remember printing out know all the map, quest things and having my little odometer going okay and point not. You know what I'd have. I'd click it though I'd look for my tour. You know, turn I get your point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know but it's not you know, and I, I guess it's. It's one of those things where if people are enjoying what they're going to see, I guess it doesn't really matter. In terms of those who lean on other things other than just a teleprompter, you know what I mean, like actual they're not actually singing in their lip, syncing and so on and so forth. You know, I, I guess I'm if, if people dig it, I'm fine with it. But to the other point is when they see people actually just playing and wing it they can, there's magic.
Speaker 2:That happens when you, when there's chaos at hand, yeah, I mean, I don't want to sound like an a grumpy old man, but I will because you know I like everybody, you know doom scrolls during the day, you know on instagram and all the social media, and like you've seen all these clips from coachella and and some of the modern pop. It's like they're not even they're not even singing. Like the lead vocal is going right and the mic is like out here. It's like they're not even trying. It's like it's like, you know, like you know, just for the children Humor me Right, exactly, put the mic up to your face, right, and I think if people are cool with that, then what do I have to say about it? But it's, it's to the point where you're like a live show is not really a live show, it's. It's a more of like a spectacle. It's. It's you're seeing people dance and and, and you know, no real instruments were harmed.
Speaker 2:It's hard for me to go to or see a clip or see a show with a band that has no amps on stage. The drummer is in some sort of like you know, hyperbaric chamber, right exactly, and you know where they have to lower the air pressure so much that no sound will escape this pod much that no sound will escape this pod. And and the next thing, you know, you hear the out front mix and those background vocals and all the there's. There's six guitar tracks going and there's one dude playing and you're like, first of all, those vocals are more in tune than the beatles at shea stadium, right, and and and I'm like, how's this guy playing six tracks at once? And I'm like I don't even know. I don't even know what's live and what's not live.
Speaker 2:And I would bet a lot of money that the peep, that the participants on stage in the backing band, don't know what the what's actually being broadcast in the front of house. Right, you know what I mean. Going, hey, I was playing and they're like your fader's gone, like put up the can track. You know, I mean it's it. It's like the front house guy has complete control over everything and what they're hearing in their earbuds it could be diametrically opposed to reality, right, and it's, it's, it's a way of doing it, you know, but it's, it's not the way I like to do it, and at least somewhat, you know. You know I try to keep it, try to just keep it more honest on our stage. You know, it's like. It's like, man, if I make the mistake. That's what people love is when you right is when the string breaks and you, you mess up and I'm in the wrong key, or I drop a verse, or I you know, or you know I get off A human element.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the band goes right with me and they're all smiling. I always turn around and they're all laughing. I go, I know, I know, but we're, we survived? Yes.
Speaker 1:We interrupt this regularly scheduled gristle infested conversation to give a special shout out to our friends at Fishman Transducers, makers of the Greg Koch signature Fluence Gristle Tone pickup set Can you dig that? And our friends at Wildwood Guitars of Louisville, colorado, bringing the heat in the shadow of the Rocky Mountains. So I mean you know you got this big tour coming up. I mean, things have been going really well for quite a while now and you know the venues that you're playing are the cool venues and all the different places. I mean, are you at this point satisfied with your ability to maintain what you're doing with your ability?
Speaker 1:to maintain what you're doing, keep on putting out new music and maintaining this level of current notoriety, which is massive. Or is there something you're like yeah, but I haven't done X, y and Z and I really want to do that.
Speaker 2:Nah, you know what, In 2006, when it just started to start drawing a crowd over in Europe and it was just starting to draw a crowd here I just looked around and I said I never thought I would get this far. Then, in 2009, 2010, the PBS thing exploded and I was like, oh my God, and I thought I worked hard getting up to that point. I was like, oh my God, I never had the Sir Edmund Hillary complex, I don't need to plant my flag on top of mount everest. I'm happy with base camp and and because sometimes you know, if you, the people that in their career is going, I really want a number one hit, or I really got to have that, whatever and that, that milestone, sometimes you achieve that, that you hit the apex curve and then the descent is right, way more radical, right, I'd rather keep it.
Speaker 2:You know, keep it at 15 000 feet, right, I'm with you I understand and and take the turbulence as it ebbs and flows, but still maintain altitude as opposed to go. Well, we just had the biggest year ever and now I don't know why there's nobody here, right, right, and that happens. You see it a lot. You see that happen in the country world. You see that happen in the pop world, where you know people with enough Instagram followers to you know declare themselves king or queen of any country. You know, I have a hard time selling tickets. You know, like well, what happened. The audience moves on and it doesn't grow with you Because you've, you've, you've reached out to an audience that tends to move on right as opposed to sticking with an artist or or having a personal connection.
Speaker 1:Right, so I like to my. My motto is I don't need millions, I just need enough yeah, I mean I've achieved everything that I.
Speaker 2:I've set my, I've played every venue. I've always, always wanted to play. I can't believe it. You know what I mean. You know, if I did the alber hall one time, I I could tell, tell I could still go to, to, to music events going. Yeah, I remember that time I played the Albert Hall Well, that was 16 years ago Like yeah, but I still did. It happened. I never thought I played it 13 times. Right, it's like it's gone way beyond what I thought and way beyond what most logical people would have said, including myself to myself logical people would have said, including myself to myself.
Speaker 2:Right, it's like weird last name wiggly, wigglies, too much. You know. Speaking voice like Kermit the Frog tries to sound like Paul Rogers singing, fails at that. Something connected. You know what I mean. And that's why we say to the trolls the people are like you're overrated. Sure, aren't we all the trolls? The people are like you're overrated, sure, aren't we all? I said somebody likes this shit. Right, exactly Nine million records.
Speaker 1:Exactly Somebody.
Speaker 2:somebody's enjoying what's going on and I told that to a guy from a really successful band at a hotel. My band was staying at a hotel, my band was staying and I was having dinner with the late great Michael Rhodes and and just just having dinner at the bar. And we're just sitting there and and this, this gentleman comes up from a very successful rock band and that that tends to get a lot of hate online and and the conversation came. It's like it conversation was like so cool musicians like he's talking to michael and I, he goes, well, musicians like you don't like, like, like people like me and my band.
Speaker 2:I said absolutely, you're absolutely wrong. I said you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. I said I go, I do big theaters, what do you, what do you play? Because when we play arenas, I go, are they full? Because, yeah, somebody likes this shit.
Speaker 2:Right, be happy, exactly. Worry, don't make music for the 10 10 of your friends make. Make it for the 10 000 people that show up every night and and and you know what, if that's your lot in life, we're, we should all be that. Luck, right, don't. Don't let that those seeds like gestate and and and it just you're assuming because we play roots music, not active rock that we look down upon. It's like that's you're wrong. I actually, I actually I said I really dig your songwriting, I really really dig the voice, I really you know. And he and he walked away. Um, I thought, walked away, I bought him a martini and he walked away like I go. That was that was a nice exchange, I, I hope. I hope his perspective. And later tonight I heard that he jumped in from one of the villas into the pool and got kicked out of the hotel, probably from the martini I bought. I'll reveal the name in my book. It was.
Speaker 1:It was surreal, yeah you've got a chance to play with a lot of you know your heroes and so on and so forth. I mean, the clapton thing was obviously, yeah, you know a massive thing and you've told that story, I believe, last time we were on here. But have you maintained any kind of relationship with him, or is it just he just kind of does his own thing, or every now and again you're like, hey, what's going on?
Speaker 2:I don't abuse the privilege, gotcha, he will. He will get back to me. Yeah, text him. I text him on the anniversary of the show that he did and I always say say, I text him on his birthday and I always say happy birthday. You know, hope you're well, joe b, and I text him on the anniversary of of may 4th every every year and I always text him the same thing thank you for changing my life. You didn't have to do that, but it did change my life. Yeah, and and very rarely are the cameras on when somebody's life changes career-wise in real time.
Speaker 2:And that was my moment. And I said everybody, they'll ask me what were you thinking when he walked out? I said, well, a, it wasn't random. You could see the little tweed twin. We knew he was coming. He just didn't pop by.
Speaker 2:I invited him, him, and I've told this story many times and he walked out in the fifth song and everybody goes what were you thinking at that moment? And I tried to. I tried to spin this thing into some profound statement about, you know, perseverance and dedication and the 10 000 hour theory. But, to be honest with you, you know what I was thinking at that moment when he walked out, I just shook my head I go, I can't believe I pulled this shit off right and and it was such a, it was such a validation. He was like going, all right, I'm giving you, I've given you the shot, right and and cause, I think, enough of what you're doing, I'm giving you the shot. And that was my moment. And and I said, well, a broken watch could be right twice a day, but it's my job to work harder now.
Speaker 2:And when the DVD came out, it wasn't a hit right away, it was. It was more of like it was doing well. And then, when PBS picked it up, two things happened. My crowds quadrupled in the States overnight, and two in a really strange way because they I saw the PBS edit and you could hear clearly hear me talk and introduce Eric Clapton in a clearly definable upstate New York accent. Everybody thought I was British For years. They thought I was British and I meet people in the meeting room and they're like you're not British, I go, never said I was.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's hysterical.
Speaker 2:I don't get an honorary Brit Award because I play the Albert Hall. It's like I'm like I'm from Utica, new York, right, and I'm like it was people I go listen, I don't care why you're here and what you thought, but this is. You know, thank you for coming, and that's, that's been my attitude. And you know, I've seen my audience grow with me and I've challenged them and I've I've challenged myself, and it's not all been gold, because when you're taking risks and you're doing things, and musically, as diverse as we go, sometimes that it's not all a home run, you know, sure, but if you do it with the right intentions, it'll certainly, it certainly bears fruit. And then you know, oh, that didn't work, we're never playing that one again, and just it never happened. You know that didn't work, we're never playing that one again, and just just never happened.
Speaker 1:You know it seems like you and Josh have a really good groove going on.
Speaker 2:And how?
Speaker 1:how has that whole thing I mean, josh is obviously a magnificent musician and a great dude and so on and so forth, but how has that just made things, I don't know, more fun for you having having a friend and someone obviously I respect, with you as your kind of partner in crime?
Speaker 2:You know, josh Smith and I, you know we've known each other for years and and when I was, we were coming out of COVID and I was like I want to change the band a little bit, and and and you know, I, I really want to bring on a rhythm guitar player because it just, it just allows the catalog. I can grow the catalog and I don't have to play and sing. And I asked Josh, I was like, dude, you interested in this thing? And we had been producing some records together and and and he was. He was like, yeah, this would be great.
Speaker 2:And so I baptized Josh and and and our singer, jade McRae, and Reese and I have never had the conversation, but he's also and Calvin and Danny and Lamar, who knows more about music than I do. They all are better than me, my entire band. And I said, listen, okay, I need the modal police. Ok, I need I. I'm a blues guy at heart and I I'll ram pentatonics into any, any brick wall at any time, happy to do it. You know I know enough to not do the major minor clashes, but it's been great because Josh really has a good instinct about arrangements if something's going to work and something doesn't in a live context and in the studio it's always great to you know, he and I kind of dot each other's I's and cross each other's T's. It's like he has a skill set tease. It's like he has a. He has a skill set. And then I have you like it sometimes in in the studio when we're producing, when certain things need to be said out loud.
Speaker 2:That's my job you know, like you just have to be. You know, when producing an album, I found it's like sometimes you have to save the artist from things that may. You know, the reason why we get called to do this is because a lot of artists have said, hey, I've been doing the same thing for 15 years and I want to do something different and I like the way you know your eric gales records sound, or like your, you know, larry mccray or whatever, and and I'm like, okay, well, let me, and I always, we always have this conversation with any artists that we work. Let me tell you how we do it, and it may not be the same way you've done it, but this is how, if you like this result, we can deliver you this result. If you just have a little faith.
Speaker 2:And you know, having Josh there is is is great, you know, and, and you know what I, what I love about our band is is I try to showcase the talent at least once a night throughout. Reese is soloing all night, jade takes a solo, danny takes a solo, calvin gets a bass break, lamar gets a drum break and Josh solos at least four or five times a night. You know, at least four or five times a night. And and it's because it's great for the audience to see. You know most of those people.
Speaker 2:You know my two singers, josh reese I consider you know and and and they're solo artists. They made records right under their own name and they're in my band and it's like it's. I want to remind my audience that that they're. They're not just hired guns, they're in my band and it's like it's. I want to remind my audience that that they're. They're not just hired guns, they're actual. I'm blessed to have solo artists that think enough of me to be on the road. You know, 200 days a year. 200 days a year, it's a hundred shows, it's about a hundred shows, but you don't do them all in a row, right? Unless you know. I remember those.
Speaker 1:Klaus tours, we should do 13 in a row yeah, good old klausy klaus. I'll be seeing him again in the fall enduring.
Speaker 2:Those are endurance tests, not, not, not tours. It's like, yeah, you know you, josh josh is over there after this run. Um, after the first solo tour, he's over there back touring in Europe, I would say in the end of May, early June, while I'm doing Black Country Communion. He's like dude, he was like I don't know what I'm going to do. We land, we have a day off and then I do 16 in a row. I go, that's a young man's game.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I believe me, I, uh, yeah, and we've been doing that kind of stuff in the States and it's just me and my son and Toby, and we drive, we do the merge, we do everything, but you know what it's. Uh, luckily, the routing for us in the States is, is logical. I mean, you're, you don't have anything that's too far, drive over there, man Klaus will fill in order to fill. A Monday, tuesday, wednesday, you might be in Cologne one night and then be, you know, all the way on the other side of Germany the next night, only to end up 10 miles away from where you were the two nights before. Right, and just because they oh well, that's, you know, we got a room where there was people, and you know hotel and food, and there you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, madrid to Zagreb didn't seem so far on the map.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:But yeah, you know, this is the thing. That again, why I feel so blessed is, you know we're able to do it on a level, that which you know. We promote our own shows, so the routing is more controlled in that way. But you know the economics of making it work. You know it's like for anybody who tours on any level. I always say it's like this.
Speaker 2:It's like the minute you land with your band it's like putting a whole bunch of hundred dollar bills into a 64 gallon drum and then taking a shop vac, putting it on high and sticking the hose in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and hopefully, by the time the tour ends and you turn the shop vac off, there's still some money left in the bottom of the barrel, exactly because many times you go over there and work crazy. It just happened to me so many times you go over there and work crazy. It just happened to me so many times you work crazy and you beat yourself up and yeah, you know you're growing towards something, but that's a hard pill to swallow when you go. Wait a minute, I was better off being a member of my own band than being the leader of it, Years like that. Yeah, sure, the leader of it years, years like that, yeah sure, and, and, and now it's. Now it's even worse because the pay, the guarantees haven't gone up enough to adjust for inflation expenses, yeah, and expenses, and it's like you know I mean a comfort in is 189.
Speaker 2:I'm like I remember when they were $49. Right, right.
Speaker 1:But you seem very, very smart in terms of. I mean, I hear other artists who, just you know they've had this pinnacle of the money's coming in. Places are packed, so they get used to a certain level of, okay, two buses, two trucks, and so on and so forth two buses, two trucks, and so on and so forth. But you seem to be very conscious of, okay, this thing's going to pay X amount, so I know I'm going to bring this amount of stuff and always being cognizant of that, would you say that that's true?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you got to scale, and one of the advantages of promoting your own shows is you could see from the on sale what the grosses are. Right, like, every day. We get updates Monday, wednesday, friday on shows and you'll just see the grosses and then you scale accordingly, right, the mistake that a lot of people make when it hits is immediately because there's nobody to say no. When you're in charge, there's nobody to say no, right, it's like you know what I don't feel like being on a bus for for 12 hours, how much is the jet? Oh, and nobody says, yeah, well, that's what. It is, okay, great. Well, when you get, and then you realize 10 years past the salad years, right, so you really would write that like was that instagram photo in front of that golf stream really worth it? Right, right, wouldn't you rather have that money like tucked away for a rainy day? Right, and you know it.
Speaker 2:To me it's again, it's the classic music business and what my, my manager and I, roy, we've been together 35 years and what we've done is and we started to see right off the bat was the amount of money coming off the gross, not the net, and we we tried to eliminate as much of the gross participation in for other third parties is we could For years people go who's your agent in the state? We are right, you know. I mean ron caplan does specialty gigs for us and he's we've known him 25 years but he's not the principal day-to-day agent and we have neil o'brien in in in london and he and he manages a lot of the UK stuff and and all these promoters that we used to work for. We now hire uh-huh for fee to to administer the gigs over in Europe and we've had this great relationship over the last 15, 20 years. And but when you start talking about if you make a thousand dollars on a show and 20 percent goes to the, to, to the, the, you know 10 goes the agent, 20 goes the manager, you know uh, promoter's fee of five percent you're looking at it 35 off of the gross, sure, so, so, so you didn't make a thousand dollars, you made 650 dollars, right, okay, now you have to pay for your hotels, your transportation, miscellaneous, and any bag of dorito, you know, bag of doritos, that that you may quote, unquote, have on your rider, which a lot of younger fans said like don't ever walk into a dressing room and say I can't believe how generous this rider is right paying for it. They're paying for it all exactly. And and and I know this this diet coke is two dollars and 49 cents in los angeles because the taxes are crushing. Okay, this is 249's two, 49. Okay, but when you, when you go down the line items at settlement, you're like six pack of diet Coke, $32. You're like no, no, no, no, no. It's like you control. The more you can control the expenses, the more that's left over for you to. And again, it's not about lining your pockets, it's it's about reinvesting in your business and growing and promotion and keeping the air in the balloon. Yes, indeed, there's a lot more to it than just plugging in and proceeding to rock.
Speaker 2:A lot of times, the second word in music business does not just doesn't sink in until it'll sink in when the money stops coming in, right, or or when you people, people, you know, artists tend to be like I don't know man, I just play guitar around here, I don't know that's. You know hell takes care of the business, okay. And then next thing's. You know hell takes care of the business, okay. And then next thing, you know, you know a year or two down the line when, when they figured out there was nothing left for them, right, oh and oh, the little thing called the IRS, right. And next thing, you know you're talking to them and they're, they're, they're flexing Like you know, they're, they're, they're a panelist on Shark Tank, right? No, you don't get to. I'm glad you saw the light, I'm glad you're starting to get more control of your business, but you have and it's the tedium Sometimes people say, well, I have to do it this way because it's contingent on this opportunity or these offers.
Speaker 2:It's like, if you, if you build your fan base direct consumer, you can, you don't. There's. Nobody should ever stand in your way from where you want to go, right. If you're doing it direct to consumer, if you're doing it through third parties and all the carrot dangling that happens, then yeah, there's going to be a point in time when you sit there and go. You know what. You know I'm not in control of my destiny and that's a bad feeling. And we've all been there, right, I'm not unique.
Speaker 2:This was not an immaculate conception. This was going europe and and and promoters that I knew going. Hey, you were very expensive. Tonight I go. What are you talking about making like two grand. He was like, no, no, you're making six grand. I'm like, well, who got the four right? The person who bought and sold the tour? They made more than we did. And I'm like, okay, and some promoters will speak to you in a condescending way, as if what they do to promote concerts is tantamount to Blue Origin or SpaceX.
Speaker 2:The complexity of promoting a show is like landing a rocket on a platform. It really isn't format right, really isn't. It just takes. It takes a little bit of um, it takes a little bit of business savvy, not much. But the most important thing about doing that is the willingness to bet on yourself.
Speaker 2:Right, I get you and, and, and you know. It's like where do you want to play? How much? How, how you know? Are you tired of playing for ticket prices that are less than a movie? Okay, well, you can control that, you know. And promoters or club owners will say, well, if I lower the price to eight euros or $10, like, I'll get 20 more people at the show that are going to drink and buy mozzarella sticks, well, you're not participating in the paps blue ribbon or the mozzarella sticks, exactly. You're just making less, so they can make more, you know. So the more you can control and the more you understand that that that relationship right is, the better off you're going to be indeed, these are all good points listen, I listen, I, I, I, somebody, somebody.
Speaker 2:A friend of mine was like they work with Belmont University and they had a studio. My friend Jamie's like would you ever be interested in you know, talking to the students at the studio.
Speaker 2:I'm like Jamie, I go, be careful. What you wish for, right, because I have an opening statement. Right, Because I have an opening statement Right. It's like if my opening statement with the music business is if you, you have to love this thing so much that you're willing to take a vow of poverty, still be happy and and can't live with yourself, you know, if you don't play guitar or music or exercise some kind of creative outlet, right, um then, then, then then this isn't for you. This is a, this is a rough and ready, this is a struggle, right. And my second, my second statement to them it's like my first advice in the music business is stay the fuck away from the music business.
Speaker 1:I heard another version that is a pretty good one as well. It's like you know, if you say to somebody, if you can see yourself doing anything else, do that yeah. Because I always say it's like I could not see myself doing anything else and I would not be stopped, I said you have to be a little crazy. You got to be a little. I mean not crazy in a negative way, but it's. It's like you have blinders on. No, I'm going to do this and no matter how many people are saying yeah, you know how hard this is. It's like, yeah, but it's not going to be that way for me because this is what I'm going to do and no one's going to stop me. You have to have that kind. And then you find out a long way it's like, yeah, maybe I was, you know a little, a little too, this that the next thing. But you know you pivot and you go on. But that love of doing it, that love has to so far supersede the bullshit you were inevitably consume.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It has to be the love of your life Exactly. Yeah, it has to be the love of your life Exactly. And for it to work and you know the ones that that always I just get a chuckle and it's like you see, people like you know, well, you know, you know making music. I'm a creative and I make music, and, and, and you know the road life is, is is so hard and I hate. I'm a homebody and I like being at home, you know, but I but, and I'm going. Well then, this isn't for you, this is not for you exactly. This is like. This is like seeing a, a, a mailman because, man, I'm a mailman but I hate paper and stamps. Right, it's like. This clearly isn't. This isn't for you. There's, there can't be.
Speaker 2:This is why I've successfully single at almost 48 years old and I've had some great girlfriends throughout my life. And it all comes down to this. They will all say this. And when they see videos of me as a kid and then they deal with me on a day-to-day basis, they go you haven't changed at all since you've been 12 years old. They go that's right, because that's what makes me good at my job. Right, a hundred percent. Yeah, any contingents or I'm I'm only going to play gigs If I make X, or if I, I'm only going to do it If, if, if they sent a, a, you know a town car, you know right Plated rims. This isn't for you.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Exactly In the Prius Uber, like we all do you know. Judas Prius, judas Prius.
Speaker 1:Well, this is my friend. So great Thanks. Well, listen my friend, it's so great. Thanks so much for making some time to rap with us. I really appreciate it. It's always a pleasure. It was fun. Thanks for having me sit in when you were in Milwaukee. That was a blast. It had been a while.
Speaker 2:It had been a while and you melted the Riverside Theater on a very cold evening with your guitar prowess it was cold.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much. That's a fun tune to play.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you what man I was. What I didn't let you on was when we were sitting at catering having dinner, something felt off. I just had a cap put on a tooth. I go, something felt off and I'm like you know, you know when something's wrong. But then you're kind of in denial, right, and I go I hope Greg doesn't think I'm like just in a bad mood or something. Something was off and it turned out he did like a root canal.
Speaker 1:Oh, no kidding. Oh yeah, on the road oh that's no fun, oh no, so.
Speaker 2:So my apologies if I, if I.
Speaker 1:Oh no, no, you were fine, it was great that was.
Speaker 2:I felt very much, uh, very much at home. I enjoyed the whole experience. Like the hummus was like chewing ice that's the worst getting old is tough.
Speaker 1:Well, it's not. It's not for the faint of heart but it happens to everyone.
Speaker 2:they call me a boom. When they call me a boomer, I'm going. It's going to happen to you Exactly. We're all lapping the sun. It's not that, that's a fact.
Speaker 1:Well, listen, have fun over there in Europe. Give them hell, I will Thank you, sir, and hope to cross paths again soon. Yeah, man, thanks, greg, my pleasure, thank you. Talk to you soon, bye-bye, bye. Well, thanks for tuning in, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Chewing the Gristle. We certainly do appreciate you stopping by. Make sure you tell your friends all about us. I think they might enjoy themselves. So thanks again for tuning in and we'll see you next time.
