Chewing the Gristle with Greg Koch
Listen in on Greg Koch's conversations with his guitar-hero friends. Every episode Greg unleashes his fiendish humor and unique perspective as "one of the most famous unknown guitar players in the world", asking his often-famous musical friends the questions that we all want to know the answers to! Each episode is brought to you by Fishman and Wildwood Guitars
Chewing the Gristle with Greg Koch
Tracii Guns on Sound, Survival, and Staying Power
Tracii Guns of LA Guns joins Greg Koch for a refreshingly honest exploration of what makes rock and roll endure through decades of industry upheaval. Their conversation weaves through Tracii's musical awakening at age five—hearing Led Zeppelin's theremin breakdown in "Whole Lotta Love" from the backseat of a car—to building and maintaining LA Guns through countless lineup changes and industry shifts.
With remarkable candor, Tracii takes us behind the scenes of his evolution as a guitarist, from his early days playing "Scorpion-style heavy metal with a little Jimmy Page thrown in" to his current approach. Guitar aficionados will delight in their deep dive into equipment - Tracii's journey from traditional JCM 800 Marshalls to embracing digital technology while maintaining his signature sound. "You keep changing stuff but you keep getting the same sound," his tech once observed.
The pair unpack the mystique of legendary guitarists like Jimmy Page, revealing that greatness often comes from simplicity rather than complexity. "For all the magic that he is, he bought his main guitar for 500 bucks from Joe Walsh," Tracii notes, suggesting that true mastery comes from dedication to playing, not gear acquisition.
Perhaps most valuable is Tracii's hard-earned wisdom about music industry survival: "You don't need a million people, you just need enough people to support you. You get 10,000 people buying everything you do, you're done." In an age of algorithm-chasing and viral fame, Tracii and Greg remind us that authentic connection through live performance remains the beating heart of rock and roll.
Want to see these two legends join forces? Catch Tracii Guns and Greg Koch performing together at the Basement East on August 27th—a rare opportunity to witness their musical chemistry in person.
Ladies and gentlemen, can you believe it? It's already time for season six of Chewing the Gristle with yours truly, greg Cox. So many delightful conversations to look forward to. We'll talk about music. Yeah, sure, but you know what else we're going to talk about. Anything that comes to mind, so stay tuned. We'll talk about music yeah, sure, but you know what else we're going to talk about. Anything that comes to mind. So stay tuned. We got some good ones for you. Chewing the Gristle, season 6.
Greg Koch:Another exciting dish of Chewing the Gristle is now at hand with rock and roll titan Tracii Guns. You know him from LA Guns. You know him as a rock savage, wheeling the guitar with great aplomb, doing things to a theremin that many wouldn't do to a farm animal. Ladies and gentlemen, we had a great talk Dig it, Tracii Guns this week on Chewing the Gristle. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we have gathered around the gristle fire once again For an installment of Chewing the Gristle. We have the mighty rock legend, Tracii Guns in the house today and we're looking forward to a convivial conversation which will lead any which way we want it to go. Tracii, how the hell are you? What's happening?
Tracii Guns:I'm good you know I'm at the age where there's always this nearby. Yes, you know, you and I are both 1966-ers, that's right. And you know life is good right.
Greg Koch:It is, but isn't it just bizarre? I mean, I'd like to think I've gotten my money's worth. It's like you know, I don't think about what, why. You know I wish I would have done this. It's like you know, I've had, I've had a pretty good run, I've done some crazy things in my time, and so on and so forth. But you find yourself looking around at someone going boy. That person looks old and you realize oh, no, we're.
Tracii Guns:We're probably the same age the night. Yeah, no, that's the. The benefit of the rock and roll, you know is, uh, we'll never believe that we're older than 26 years old and uh, hopefully it shows right exactly.
Greg Koch:Well, I was just thinking about that as a fact that I remember distinctly getting to be about 27 and 28 and feeling ancient because I was hitting it so hard. You know what I mean and you're like. And then god forbid you'd look at people our age now. It's like why are they even alive, you?
Greg Koch:know what I mean and then you realize, oh no, you got a long ways to go. But what's interesting is that you know the average person you know really is into music. Like music is foundational for them up until about that age. And then they all go on and do their professional lives. They've got families and so on and so forth and music isn't important to them anymore. But not for us. We, we carried the banner, going forward like with the same intensity and wondering where all my buddies go. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tracii Guns:No, that's true, you know it. When I was 27, I became extremely agoraphobic and I didn't leave the house oh, you're kidding me For like 14 months. Yeah, I was terrified to go to the bank, to stand in line at Taco Bell and I would lay in bed and just think well, this is it. You know I reached the end. You know I'm an old man. And then all of a sudden, I don't know what changed. I think I started eating protein or something and then things got better.
Tracii Guns:But yeah, I mean, 27, 28 were terrible years for me, you know, really bad. And you know the bank account was dwindling and you know I lived in some stupid ridiculous house and I would just look around and go is this? It Is like, you know, is this where it ends? And but the cool thing was I had a. There was no digital technology yet, right, so that was like I don't know 92 or 93. And uh, and so all I did is I had this little task cam cassette recorder and I just would like write shit. Yeah, that's all all I fucking did. And and uh, turned into like stuff later, you know what I mean.
Tracii Guns:Like, like, like hey, what do I do on that crappy tape machine, like you know?
Greg Koch:But yeah, life's weird, right, but you know, that just goes to show. It's like, even when you know life does its thing, which it always does, there's always, you know, the playing, the creating, just sitting around playing the guitar. That shit never gets old and that and when you have that, that's like the greatest gift you can be given, because you'll never I mean, most people don't have something like that- they don't.
Tracii Guns:And when you go to therapy because, besides myself, I know a lot of other people that have gone through some life crisis and the one thing that therapists always encourage is to have find the thing that does make you mentally focus on something you enjoy and you know, I was in Denmark for five years and which is such a different culture. You know where people are trying to collect cars, and, and I, and if they do, it's on a, it's one car and they will make that car mint. You know what I mean. So, like, the competition thing doesn't really exist over there the way it does here. Like you know, we want everything. You know, it's like I want a Strat and a Tele and a super Strat, and, and I got to have a double neck and a Marshall and a Fender and I got to have it and I got it and I got it.
Tracii Guns:So, that being said, you know all those people. They go all the way through college. You know what I mean. They learn trades and crafts and they learn about music and they learn the basic shit that makes you happy in life and they lead a happy life. You know? Um, for some reason we didn't get the rule book. You know where we grew up. It was like say, hey, here's the keys to the country. Go right, like go get yours, man, you know, kind of a thing. And I mean, you know, guys like you and I are obviously very lucky that that we've been able to make any living out of music, because it's it's an impossible thing to do.
Greg Koch:Well, it certainly is. I mean it's, uh, you know, when we think about the many things that you need to do, especially, you know, being able to do it this long. I mean it's you know it's.
Tracii Guns:Hey, you know, before we forget, you know people watching this. You and I are playing together at the basement East on August 27th. That's correct. Yes, you know, and, and you know, I'm still looking forward to that show man.
Greg Koch:Oh, it's going to be a blast. Thanks so much for having us. It's going to be a blast. Thanks so much for having us.
Tracii Guns:It's going to be a blast, you know. And which leads to the other thing of how fucked this business is, because la guns is a headlining band, we call all the shots but we can't pick our support acts. It's so fucked up.
Tracii Guns:That's insane you know, because people like, yeah, but you know we got these guys and you know, and this, and it's like you know, if you want all the money, then you know because people like, yeah, but you know we got these guys and you know and this, and it's like you know, if you want all the money, then you know you got to let us do this. It's like you don't want all the money, but I want all my friends to have all the money too. Right, you know, let's fucking go, and just every step of the way and and I didn't we weren't always in this position. You know where, where, where we kind of called the shots and did our own stuff. You know, for like 25 years we weren't like that, and now we are, and once again we hit another wall. So getting you to play with us has been the joy of my year. Oh, thank you. It's going to be a blast.
Tracii Guns:Yeah, it's going to be great. I'm just wanting to know. I'm really happy about it.
Greg Koch:Well, thanks for making it happen. I did, we did. Yeah, let's talk a little bit about how you got started. What was, uh, you know, since we're the same age, I'm curious if you had older siblings that were into music, or or if you got the discovery yourself, or what happened.
Tracii Guns:Well, for me, um, I was sitting in the back of my mom's boyfriend. He, I was sitting in the back of my mom's boyfriend. He had like a little 912. And I was a little tiny guy when I was five or six and I would just lay down back there and he had stereo speakers right, and Whole Lotta Love came on the first time I ever heard it in my life, and I heard the theremin break down and I poked my head up what the hell is this? Right, you know? And my mom said, oh, that's, you know, that's Led Zeppelin and that's the guitar. And I'm like, I'm like, OK, so I could never make you know.
Tracii Guns:I got a guitar instantly, you know, and I couldn't make it do the theremin thing. So I didn't know, I didn't know what it was. So I kept beating on the guitar, trying to get those sounds, you know. So for me it's always been about sounds, you know what I mean and kind of learning the notes and the parts and the all. This stuff is always secondary, but having to learn how to play the guitar along the way you know, so I'm really attracted to when somebody does something off that works.
Tracii Guns:You know what I mean something that's extraordinary, um, like, you know, the one thing about you that blows my mind is like you know, you play things so well, you know for lack of a better expression like you really play well, you know. You're like, well, check this out, and then this happens. And then if you do this and this happens, and then it's all copacetic and this is grand me. You know, I try to learn fucking you know, uh, the alphabet and it's like I can't do it. You know I, I just can't do it.
Tracii Guns:My ears do not go melodically, which is weird because you see me play. You think this guy, wow, you're like fuck my god, jesus, fucking christ. But it's all just wittily diddly, making noise and knowing there's a major scale and a minor scale and somewhere in between or five other places you can go and playing. For you know, 50 years, yeah, I'm doing, but but it's not, I'm not fantastic like you are, you know, you're just like I sit there and I watch you, I just go, yeah, man, oh, I don't know. Yeah, like that's how you do it. And all my friends you know my guitar player friends. They're heroes, man, like you know, alex skolnick and shit like. Oh yeah, you can do all that shit. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like, and me I go up there with a theremin and people go, yeah, so it's good enough, right.
Tracii Guns:It's like kind of the key thing. But as far as influences go to align with yours, you know, I think we're pretty, pretty close. You know the Hendrix and the page that had the huge impact, you know, and then tony iomi and then really I guess gary moore, eddie van halen or randy rhodes, you know, and, and those are my formative kind of I'm gonna be a guitar hero thing, so I tried to emulate all that and then exactly probably what you did is, once I got kind of over that, started going backwards, right, you know, and listening to guys that really were writing the manuscript for what the guitar heroes did. And I think that's another reason I really dig listening to you play, because you'll just throw some Jeff Beck thing in the middle of nowhere and I'm like I know what he did, I know that part, or joe walsh or anything.
Greg Koch:I'm just like I'm like fuck yeah I remember when my brother brought home, uh, that's so, what record, joe walsh so what. That was like 74 or something, yeah and uh, but we had those james game records and all, yeah, all that stuff. But you know, and as have you know, you progressed over the years. What are the things that have, like, you've discovered that were kind of happening at the same time as the other music you were into but for whatever reason, you weren't hip to it, just because you didn't have friends into it or you just never heard it? What were some discoveries you've made about some stuff that was old that you just like I can't believe.
Tracii Guns:I've never heard this before we need to run from right, because um always dug the yard birds you know what I mean. Like I always dug them, but I didn't realize what an impact they had on so many other bands across the world. Um, across that time. And one of the one of the things that um is mind blowing is, uh, mid sixties in Cambodia, they, they had a rock scene with recording technology and authentic, you know, stuff that really was on par with the Beatles and the Stones and the Sonics and all this stuff. And people just don't know because, you know, during Vietnam, you know, we just went in there and napalmed the hell out of Cambodia and erased all this history, this music history that is.
Tracii Guns:You know, I'm going to eyeball really quick, I know it's, I'll find it, but there's a really good record and it goes to the soundtrack of a documentary. It's called I Won't Forget you and it has, like you know, 30 tracks on it that were saved from these studios and most of the recording studios that were in the radio stations so the bands could go in and perform live on the radio and they recorded them and then they would make the records out of those recordings. Nice, you know. So these are things I've discovered along the way of, you know, because I'm very, uh, focused on rock and roll. I always really have been, you know, um, but I love enya, you know, because, melodically, you know, uh, it's a whole garden of you know, uh, melancholy, riffage, you know, done on some weird organ thing, right, that that really appeals to me, you know, and her voice is like an angel, you know so, uh, but that gets more into that randy rhodes territory of, like, how do you get inspired to be, you know, studios, uh, what do they call that? Neoclassical?
Tracii Guns:right right without just listening to segovia all the fucking time. It's like I did the Segovia thing for a while. I guess that's more flamenco, but you know, there's just so many aspects of what we do and the ultimate goal for me is to write original sounding songs musically. Because in LA Guns I always write all the music, first the arrangements done, then phil gets it and he wants to kill me, and then he comes up with the goods, right, you know.
Greg Koch:So, like it's just always been, you know, an art project for me it really has and so talk a little bit about the progression of that band and how it's changed over the years and different approaches and just kind of weathering the onslaught of the music business in general well, I think it's number one.
Tracii Guns:It's dumb luck, right, it's just fucking dumb luck because you know people don't really stay together that long in marriages and bands and business and things like that.
Tracii Guns:But you know, I started the band when I was in high school, you know, and we played kind of Scorpion style heavy metal, probably with a little Jimmy Page thrown in Right, because that's what was popular around 82, 83. And then, through a series of, you know, member changes and friends going off to be professionals and other businesses and stuff like that, I ended up with Axl Rose singing in LA guns, who was Izzy's best friend, you know, izzy Right, and he was in LA guns. And then we changed the name to guns and Rose we don't need to go down that long road and then we had guns and roses and then we got really popular really fast and I was like oh, and then we had Guns N' Roses and then we got really popular really fast and I was like, oh shit, you know, All right, here we are, but I don't want to hang out and die with drug addicts.
Tracii Guns:So now you know how am I going to get out of this? And so I just redid LA Guns as kind of like a Motley Crue meets the Rolling Stones ideology, like, okay, I like five-piece bands, even though I want to play alone. The five-piece band, the Aerosmith, the Arbards kind of thing, stones, yeah, stones. It felt like the right thing for LA Guns to be. It felt like every guitar hero band is just a guy by himself and I thought, well, if I can shred and have some other guy play all the the stuff, that's meaningful and I can just solo all night.
Tracii Guns:That's what I want to do, because I notice, you know, every anytime I'm in a band where it's a three-piece band, um, you know, the, the bottom drops out if I stop playing rhythm. You know what I mean, unless we have a keyboard. It's like Udo or something like that, and that's cool, it's a vibe and I'm into it. I mean, I'm probably going to start another band tomorrow where it's me and two people and party on and all that stuff, but on a professional level the LA Guns formula just works. And what I mean is, you know, we got enough guys playing instruments to be very musical and very diverse, and which means I can write whatever I want, and then, as long as phil's singing, we sound like la guns he has such a distinctive british american crossover thing that he is that it gives me the freedom and that's all I give a shit about.
Tracii Guns:I just want musical freedom. I don't you know the fact that you know all the bills are paid and we make bucks and like all that shit. That's wonderful, but I'd still be doing exactly the same fucking thing if we didn't. You know, I really I want to be jimmy page man, you know I. You know I want to do, I want to do it and and that keeps me going, you know it keeps me excited how's the uh, the relationship with phil?
Greg Koch:I mean maintaining that over the years I'm sure it took some work, and, uh, because you know it's hard enough. I mean I've always had three-piece bands because I can only usually handle two other musicians at any given time, and now that one's my son, it's that much easier.
Tracii Guns:So, man, god, you know, and you got a good problem. And dylan, he's definitely the second coming of jesus bottom, you know, like yeah, I'm watching you. And then he does something like I'm like damn, man, you know, he just sticks it in the kick and it's over. Yeah, my god, um, but with phil, um, and, and you'll find this that this has happened to us all through junior, high school, high school, adult living, and there's other people that fuck up great relationships. Right, like you know, you can be cruising along and have your best buddy that you're getting stoned with in high school and then some other dude will say, hey, your best friend said this about you, right, right, you know this kind of, you know, gossip. You know poisonous, toxic people that are looking for attention and it gets in between.
Tracii Guns:And that's happened a bunch of times with us, with Phil, you know. Managers have gotten in between us, band members have gotten in between us, you know. And finally we took a break. I took a break for 12 years and when it was time to do it again, I took over the whole thing. And the problem earlier is I was 10 years younger than the next guy in the band, even though it was my band, so I was just respecting all these opinions and people and like I wasn't going to backtalk, you know, and then it would get to a point where I wouldn't backtalk. Then the day would come where I'd go get the fuck out of my life, you know what I mean.
Tracii Guns:I get it. All your wisdom did fucking nothing for me. You know what I mean, right? So when we got back together in about 2017, I just started cleaning house. You know what I mean. Like you know, I wanted this to be the thing that we do and be successful at it and really recognized where the toxicity was. You know what I mean. Eliminated. That did one show. We got a fucking really nice record deal with Frontiers, and that was the beginning. And then, you know, we had a guy in there that was helping out that ended up being, just like all the other guys that he talks shit about, you know, a manager type, right? Oh, this guy is ripping you off and don't do that. And then, obviously, down the road, the guy ends up ripping you off. Same story. So the two key ingredients is the five band members in the band were tight. It's a family now, right, you know, we're all adult enough. Nobody, nobody's trying to get anything over on anybody.
Greg Koch:No weird agendas or whatnot.
Tracii Guns:Right. You know everybody's comfortable in their livelihood, especially Phil. You know Phil's in a great place. He's uh, he's gonna be 69 in january, you know. So he's, he's 10 years on us. Yeah, he's got 10 years on us and he's singing like a motherfucker and um. So I think that we just really appreciate it and we're having a really good time, which translates into the crowd and our audience, and then they're having a good time and things grow and we just, you know we don't really have goals to speak of. You know it's more about we're happy where we are right and it's just maintaining it.
Greg Koch:Now that's the thing, isn't it? Just you just want to keep going, just want to keep going.
Tracii Guns:Don't want to piss anybody off, you know. Save your drama for the llama. You know all that shit, Fuck that shit. It's boring.
Greg Koch:So, gear-wise, how's your stage stuff changed over the years? Are you constantly tweaking and messing around, or have you stayed pretty consistent when it comes to the battle array?
Tracii Guns:Right, it's crazy. You know my old guitar tech, kent Holmes. He used to say he goes, he goes. You keep changing stuff but you keep getting the same sound right.
Tracii Guns:And that was a big epiphany for me and that was around, I don't know, like 1989, I guess, and at that point I was using JCM 800, 100 watts, you know, vertical input, the right amps, right, a very basic setup with a stereo chorus, you know, using two heads and four cabinets. At the time we were playing big places and a wah-wah and an eq and kind of basic. But the the struggle for me was always the delays, right, um, going to the front end of amps, right, not sounding lush enough. So I kind of always did like a short one, repeat delay kind of thing, and then a big stereo delay that was just fucking out of control because I couldn't make it sound smooth no matter what I tried to do. So that was my sound for a long time and I would collect amps, you know, because we, we love amps, um, but all the way through, and then the various bands I played through, I would, you know, if the drummer wasn't extremely loud I would play out of like some cool, like Buddha combos, you know stuff like real boutique-y kind of stuff.
Tracii Guns:And then I always use the yellow SD-1 pedal. That's always been my drive pedal and I could basically get the same, you know, or it felt mushy enough where I was comfortable. That's what I go for. It's like oh, fuck, yeah, man, you know this is a golden sound, but in 2016, 2017, more came to my attention. They made these little pedals and they made these little amplifier like preamplifier pedals pedals. I'm like, well, how does that work? You know, and there was a time I did use like a rocktron chameleon preamp through power amps. You know shit, like that heavy duty stuff. You know, like, like, like fuck man stuff. Yeah, like, wow, you know like what a, what a fucking waste of energy. But, um mean, it sounded great, but whatever.
Tracii Guns:But these little things came out and I put this pedalboard together with like 24 pedals on it, you know, because there were so little. I was like, well fuck, why not Just, you know, have everything on there? And at that point the amps that I had were the newer 800s that had effects, looped, you know, returns, right, so I could have these more preamps you know, like a fender deluxe and a marshall 900 and all this stuff, and run them right into the delays and everything like that and like the distortions before it, and go right into the power sections of the amps and not to worry that was like striking gold.
Tracii Guns:For me, it was like wow, all my delays are lush, everything sounds massive. It's quiet. You know it's not this, this, this rat's nest of noise you know because it pretty much was. For the first 30 years, it was like, yeah, I'd turn my guitar up and the rig would be yeah, yeah and uh. So then, in 2018, um, when I was at the height of my stonerdom, you know, just you know, this weed was my life. You know, I was like man, life is good all the time.
Tracii Guns:So this company called head rush came out on my head rush that that's got me written all over it, right, and I looked at what it was and it's this touchscreen iPad thing with all the pedals and amps in it. I'm like, oh, wow, so I could get rid of these 24 little pedals, get this one pedal and everything's in there with a noise suppressor not a noise gate, but a noise suppressor which actually identifies your shitty signal and gets rid of that. So I call this guy Brian Davitt. I found him on Facebook. He was the head A&R guy for head brush and I'm like, hey man, is this thing any good? He's like I don't know, I'll send you one. I'm like, all right, so I get this thing, I dial it in and what's the first thing I go for JCM 800, right, jcm 800, you know stereo delay chorus here, blah, blah, blah. And they didn't have a yellow pedal, they had a tube screamer like, yeah, man plugged it into my amps. I'm like, oh fuck, there it is no kidding that's it, that's.
Tracii Guns:All I require in my life is this, and this is for live because live you know, live is where it's at. I've never recorded my live rig, and on a studio record oh no, kidding, yeah, which is like you know.
Tracii Guns:That's not the eddie van halen way like sure he's like, hey, my shit sounds good, put mics in front of it. I'm going, but it's definitely the jimmy page way right. It's like, okay, these are the Marshalls I use live, and then you don't know what I use in the studio. You know that mystique, but I really I have tried putting analog rigs together for live ever since the head rush and it gets close. It's not as powerful, it's not as controllable and it's not as out of control as I wanted to get. Like you know, with the head rush I can make it get really out of control. You know, with feedback on every fret, you know on every string, you know just the right kind of stuff. So, um, that being said, you know I'm really a vintage guy with a really modern piece of gear that gets me what I want live.
Tracii Guns:Yeah, it does the thing but in the studio, you know, here, like like you, you know, I think I have every fender and every marshall and like, and uh, ampeg shit, silver tone shit. Uh, I'm building amps now I'm gonna try to sell people, uh, 50 watt marshals for two grand. You know the, really you know 78 jmps because they're through the roof. Nobody makes a good one and they take me about two days to build from scratch.
Tracii Guns:You know so they're the best amp um for rock and roll guys, because you can really do the small faces thing, you can do the Randy Rhoades thing, you can do the Jimmy Page thing, and 50 watts these days is plenty. You know it's plenty. Let's be honest.
Greg Koch:Anything more than 50 watts, you're getting the stink eye from everyone around. Oh man, yeah, more than 50 watts, you're getting the the stink eye from everyone around.
Tracii Guns:Oh man, yeah, well. So. So wait, now here's a luxury that you have that I didn't have till about a month ago. You're up there. You don't have some guy wailing through stage monitors vocally, right? So phil got in-ear monitors for himself last month and so now his monitors on stage are like a good level where I can hear what he's singing, right. But I can hear my guitar. Oh, there you go, I can fucking hear it. Yeah, if I play out of a Deluxe, I can hear it, right, you know.
Tracii Guns:So the whole reason for all those 100-watt amps all those years is I couldn't hear, right, you know, because he sings high, you know, and he's screaming. And as soon as he put those on and we did that gig that night, I walked to my pedal board and I turned the master down and I was like this is fucking awesome, and so that I'm talking about learning things way later, right, like that's the thing. So now he's kind of allowed me to kind of like look at my rig and go, wow, you know, I can do other things now too, you know, if I want to play, like I said, a deluxe on stage for one song, because it's the right sound for the song. Well, I could certainly do, certainly do that now. You know, and, and you know, I love all of it, man, I love all this shit.
Greg Koch:I love all this shit Gear is fun, it never. It never gets old.
Tracii Guns:Yeah, it doesn't, man. You know, I, I, I have four Echoplexes. I had three and I used them till the end, right Like they got to the end. And my friend Eric, who owns Caveman Music here, always knows that I'm on the alert because I use those. And he didn't tell me he had an Echoplex on. This was about two or three months ago, but I saw it on Instagram and I lost my shit because I was definitely sure somebody had already bought it. You know, and I, eric, why didn't you tell me about the Echo? Oh, I'm sorry I forgot, man. You know I go. Well, let me know when another one comes in and he goes no, I still have this one. I'm like, does it work? He goes yeah, that works. I'm like I fucking went down there so fast, got the thing and they're expensive, man. I think I paid like $1,400 for it or something. But it's the one you know and it works and it's on tour and it's doing the thing you know.
Greg Koch:We interrupt this regularly scheduled Gristle Infested conversation to give a special shout-out to our friends at Fishman Transducers, makers of the Greg Koch signature Fluence Gristle Tone pickup set Can you dig that? And our friends at Wildwood Guitars of Louisville, colorado, bringing the heat in the shadow of the Rocky Mountains. So back in the day, like when you know, of course, jimmy Page always had the two and he had the one for all the crazy theremin stuff, I'm imagining. And then the other one was just a quick slap back, that's it.
Greg Koch:And I'm wondering. You know especially, you know as he got more medicated it's like. But as we all know, when you crank those amps, as you said, when you're going to the front end of them, you got to be careful you can barely have the amount of effect on in order for it not to get all saturated and shitty. So he must've just had it barely on. And then, you know, years later it seemed like he would. Maybe it would be a little bit more wash. You know what I mean. But how did you deal with it back in the day? You just went through the front end and you would just have to bring the amount of effect weigh the fuck down so it wouldn't be all distorted.
Tracii Guns:Well, you know, I had an epiphany like the last few weeks. You know I used to use a DD3, a Boss.
Greg Koch:DD3. Yeah, I've used one for since the beginning.
Tracii Guns:Right, I don't have any now, like I don't know why, I have everything, but I don't have a fucking DD three. So Carlos Cavazos, uh Cavazos, jammed with us a couple of weeks ago and he had a little pedal board with a tube screamer and a DD three on it and a high and a SLO sold on it. Yeah, and I'm like you're running that into the front. He goes yeah, why, I'm like, I'm like, okay, and that's what I used to do, right, right, so he's playing. I think that's the only delay you can do that with. It pretty much works. Yeah, like, like, like, fuck, okay, way more gain than I was, and so you know. So you know, it always worked somehow for me in the past. I don't remember cause I'm not there right now, but but I did use two DD threes, you know, one for the big stereo thing and one for the single, for the single slap.
Tracii Guns:Yeah, whatever. But page thing and you'll agree with me on this, I know you will those delays had to work. So when he talks about, you know, getting the amps just to the edge of the breakup point, he wasn't kidding, and on some of those bootlegs he didn't even get to the edge of breakup right. Like you know, he was just clanking away. You know doing his thing and I'm definitely positive. You know that he wanted to be able to play the clean stuff really nice, and so I think he prioritized more of a clean sound live and getting it just distorted Because he wasn't even using the tone bender anymore once Zeppelin really got rolling, you know Exactly of kind of gave up on fuzz and all that stuff, um.
Tracii Guns:But I noticed, um, when I talked to a lot of the old engineers, the guys, a lot of what me and you heard was they were running echoplexes and space echoes at the front of house, you know so like on guitars, on vocals and stuff like that like I wondered, like same thing, like live at leeds, you know exactly yeah, yeah, they had to be doing that from the front of house and those engineers back then they went to school, they weren't like you know, they weren't the guy down at joe's bar and I could do sound right, like those guys back then, like you know, they knew how everything worked and how to patch things and you know all this archaic dinosaur equipment, sure, and that shit sounds great. It's really interesting when you listen to the live James gang and a lot of Deflam bootlegs around 71 to 75. Right when, bootlegs around 71 to 75, right, plants definitely singing through a space echo because, the delay has reverb on it.
Tracii Guns:Yeah, yeah, you know, and and it took me a long time to figure that out like where's that reverb coming from? Because it wasn't the room.
Tracii Guns:You know, it wasn't, it's like a very sparkly kind of uh like, what do they call it now? What do the kids call it? They call it it's like two higher octaves of reverbs, like shimmer, shimmer, yeah, yeah, yeah, like there's some shimmer on, like when Plant would do a big thing and then the delay would repeat over and over. You can hear this kind of shimmer reverb in there, like those dirty cool high-end shit. It's just like fuck man, it's so magical.
Greg Koch:It's so weird when you listen to those little bootlegs Is that you know like from 72 or 73, that's when Page's live tone was probably the best and when you listen to, well, that you know how the West Was Won. Now I know what was it. Kevin Shirley went in and spit-shined that shit up. Yeah, he did. But what you were saying about when he turns that thing down same with Song Remains the Same. He turns that guitar down, it's like the greatest clean sound. And then he turns it up and that shit is gainy but yet still has clarity. And then I heard something about how he switched to KT whatever tubes in his Marshalls in 75, and so it was a little cleaner and a little clankier.
Tracii Guns:Yeah, because I was just going to say it's like you know two things. I know about Page is he saved his first you know dollar for his first session and he never biased his amps or changed tubes no kidding, it's like for all the magic that he is. You know he bought his main guitar for 500 bucks from Joe Walsh.
Greg Koch:Right, you know what I mean.
Tracii Guns:Right, like you know, he's really maybe not as sophisticated about what he's playing through as we'd like him to be. Sure, Of course, you know what I mean. He's like I've got Marshalls, I have Echoplexes, I have a Sonic Wave, theremin, I have a Double Neck Les Paul, but I'm more about playing these things than giving a fuck, right.
Greg Koch:They were just tools at the time.
Tracii Guns:It's like oh, this is the stuff we use.
Tracii Guns:Yeah, and who knows what that mentality was, you know, like kind of going through those couple years he had in the studio scene, right a year, a couple years he had in the studio scene, right where you know, obviously he was taking notes, but that was about recording, right, you know, and you know he's playing out of solid state rickenbackers and shit like live. Yeah, you know like what the fuck, right, you know. So I mean, it's really hard to get in in anybody's mind. That's that mysterious and I think the mystery is just because he didn't give a fuck indeed.
Greg Koch:Well, it's just like when you listen to uh, you know clapton's cream tone and like spring of fit of 68, you know it's like it's the most glorious sounding thing and you know, he did. He had no idea. It's like what am I playing through? Just plug me into that shit and turn it off.
Tracii Guns:That's right. That's right and and I agree wholeheartedly, you know, because there's a really interesting video of Hendrix jamming with Buddy Miles. I think Hendrix played at one festival and then Buddy Miles was playing the Newport Music Festival.
Greg Koch:I've seen that, yeah, where he's got the blue dashiki on and he's playing through like showmans.
Tracii Guns:And it's like ouch, yeah, like stop, you're killing me. Right, and there's all that white trash audience on the beach. You know like he's just going and it's like you know that strat through those dual showman on 10. Right, you know, like the funny thing about a lot of Fender amps like that they don't have presence control.
Greg Koch:Right.
Tracii Guns:And I don't know if people really know what a presence control does. It's part of the power amp, it's not part of the EQ, right? So what it does is it can really help you to grind that power amp. You know. So, when you crank the presence, not only does it give the appearance that it's brighter, but it actually adds more gain. That's a weird thing. So what it does is it limits the amount of bass response. That's why it appears to be brighter, right, but it's just making the amp kick ass. If you have a Fender amp like a Twin or something like that, like a crazy loud amp, and you don't turn the treble down, man, it just keeps going. That treble just keeps taking off and going, I don't think by the time they got to the 85-watt amplifier or high-powered Twin or any of those things. I don't think it was about game, man. I think it was about getting a really nice big, loud, clean Billy sound you know you got Hendricks out there with a fuzz face.
Tracii Guns:go right in the fucking front of one of those goddamn things. That's the coolest thing ever, though you know, that's the stuff that I think that you and I enjoy is stumbling upon a video of a guy we dig doing something out of the ordinary and go.
Greg Koch:How did that happen? Yeah, how cool.
Tracii Guns:Is that exactly? Yeah, because we have the luxury. You know those guys didn't have the luck. We have the luxury. You know we could go into check out anything we want. We go on youtube now and like see how gear works and we can work with other engineers and tell them our ideas and then they make them come to life. You know, yeah, we got it way better than those guys, trust me no doubt.
Greg Koch:I mean, uh, you know I often discuss this when I'm doing these, these podcast, just talking about you know the ups and the downsides of social media and this technology and I always kind of stick to the thing of it. It's like we're kind of in the golden age of learning and you know making the craft better and having access. I mean I'm sure because you were the same age. Remember, when you get like a guitar player magazine and whoever you were really into at the time and they would mention like three, four, five influences that you had never heard of before and you're like, well, how do I get those records? And if you weren't one of those real proactive people that like sent away for records and you just went into the Sam Goody or 1812 and they would never have that shit, or if that, or very rarely but nowadays this Elmore James guy.
Greg Koch:Right now you go online and you can not only see or for sure you're going to hear whatever they had, but a lot of times you can actually see them in practice. And then either they will have a thing where they're showing you what they're playing, or somebody else is broken. It's insane, it's amazing.
Tracii Guns:It's amazing. Yet people still would rather rely on dragging and dropping loops of music. And you know, singing a melody and then having a guitar part, I don't get it. You know, it's so easy to learn to play an instrument. Now, right, you know, and people are still too fucking lazy to fucking learn how to play the instrument.
Greg Koch:That's the other thing about the technology. I say this all the time. It's like you know, you'll post something and you'll list exactly what you're using, the song you're playing, and if it's not your song, oh, it's by so-and-so, and then in the comments people will ask the questions over and over again about what you just posted up. But by the same token, you could, you know no one's certain. You have basically the oracle in your hand. You know what I mean and you could easily access with a quick search, like I do all the time. You know what I mean all day long.
Greg Koch:And it's like, it's amazing to me that people have access to all this information but they make they're so lazy, so fucking lazy, that they they won't even make the effort. Or, like I always say, I'm just so glad I'm able to make a living doing what I'm doing because, uh, you know, you can't, you can never take anything for granted. So it's like some person might see a Wawa video I've done and be like, oh, I liked that guy. I saw him on a Wawa video.
Greg Koch:Have no idea that I have records out. I have no idea I've done whatever else I've ever done. They just like that one thing. I'm like, okay, well, however, you got here, that's cool. But by the same token, if I was their history, I'd read their Wikipedia page and then think to myself, well, this isn't the whole truth, but this at least you know what's my beak a little bit, you know what I mean. And then I'm going to go in more than that and like, oh, he was in this band. Well, let's hear some of that. Maybe there's some footage of how are they live, you know, and you do the deep dive. And that's where I think you know where excellence really comes from. Have the drive, but it just amazes me how people don't understand that if you want this shit, it's like you got to do the work.
Tracii Guns:Yeah, I mean, if you, if, especially for longevity purposes, you know, like working on a craft and I don't care what the craft is, you know, but that's, but that's, that's. You know, that's the secret to the baker. You know the baker didn't just start. You know making cakes today, right, you know they, they, they did their research to have favorite other bakers and they, you know all these things and that's that leads to kind of like the, the modern guitarist mentality of you know well, who's the best guitarist, you know who's been. I can't stand that shit. It's so weird and the way I always explain it to guys, cause, you know, people ask you all the time. They ask me all the time, well, what's the best guitarist? And it's like guitar players are Baskin Robbins.
Tracii Guns:Man, you go in, you got 31 flavors and in this case, probably a thousand flavors of the guys, right, and you know most people gravitate towards chocolate. Cool, you know, chocolate's easy to process, it's fucking yummy, blah, blah, blah. But then there's a fucking crazy guy that likes, you know, the pimento, spumoni, you know mocha, you know all this stuff. And then, because they like that flavor, they're not too turned on by all these others, you know. So it's just. There's. No, of course, competition is great, because you know we want to. You know I see you play, I go, I want to play that weird bendy thing like he does, right, and that's the way it works. It shouldn't be. Well, jeff beck did that better than jimmy page, so jeff beck's a better guitar player than jimmy page. It's like he's not.
Greg Koch:That's not that.
Tracii Guns:I love where it works exactly and I love to have beck and I love jimmy hendricks and I love pat. You know, from the germs you know I would never tell a student like, only fucking listen to this, because that's where it's fucking at, although you know that there are people like that.
Tracii Guns:It's like what the fuck man? You know, and that's where I think guys like Angus Young have been really smart. Keith Richards has been really smart, slash has been really smart. They keep it to a thing, right Right to an identifiable thing that they do, and it's palatable, it stays the same, it's big and it grows Right, right. It's like a thing and I just I could never really do it, you know, like there's too much fun I want to have. But I'll tell you something about acdc.
Tracii Guns:We did a couple tours with them and they always sound check with the stones. You know what I mean. Like so they're like, yeah, we really dig the stones, man, you know. So we just like put a little bit more distortion on me and kind of that's the mentality, right, so you, some bands, are able to focus and really like stick to a thing. And you know I worship those guys. I wish that my attention span was, you know, any bit longer than a fleas, but it's not. You know, it's like I want to try everything you know, and it's fun, it's I want to try everything you know and, and it's fun, it's more fun to try everything.
Greg Koch:Absolutely. You know, it's kind of a funny thing, is I? Um, you know, as we're talking about discovering things that you really didn't pay attention to at the time, and now I I'm just obsessed, uh, so I don't know when it was, but I started seeing um, well, you know, um, um, Jason Isbell's, uh, a guitar player, uh, sadler Vaden, right, is that the same? I've never met him personally, but we've talked online and stuff. Okay, yeah, I never met him either, and he would always post uh on, I think, like on um, uh, not Instagram, what's the they instagram? Oh, threads, threads, thank you, um had a senior moment there.
Greg Koch:He was posting this thing and this was before they announced the reunion, but he'd be like another day has gone by, an oasis hasn't reunited. I'm like what the fuck is this with this guy's problem? You know, know, and cause I was thinking I always thought they were kind of just like um, uh, like a would be Beatles cover band, right, I just never paid any attention. So then, all of a sudden, there, uh, it's getting closer to the reunion and uh, and then I was like, oh, you're seeing some videos and I'm like those fuckers are funny, right, I enjoy the little snippets of liam and noel and so on and so forth.
Greg Koch:Dry yeah, and then all of a sudden, I start listening to these tunes. I'm like I had no fucking idea that they are a rock and roll and now I'm absolutely obsessed. That's amazing, and so I've been listening to it non-stop. And what's crazy is is that you realize, I mean one of the things that you know, as we talk about people always kind of um compartmentalizing everything. You can't do this or you can't do that in terms of this is the best or this is the worst. And, and you know, whenever you get the people are like, well, I'm, I'm just really more about the song. It's like, well, yeah, you're always about the good song, you're about music, music in its totality, right. And the one thing that always kind of turned me off, especially when the kind of the american-esque, kind of alternative singer-songwriter thing is- well, we can't get too crazy.
Greg Koch:We can't rock too hard. It can't get too loud.
Tracii Guns:My funny hat might get a you know it's a bizarre take on being creative, isn't it?
Greg Koch:and then, and then I'm listening to these oasis songs like these. These guys don't give a fuck, it is just it's time to rock, and so I've just been. And it's so simple. Those songs are so simple. It's ridiculous, but they're fucking amazing.
Tracii Guns:Well, now that you've gone down to Thrabile, did you see their documentary?
Greg Koch:I started to watch it the other day before I had to leave. I didn't finish it, but it's like it's crazy it.
Tracii Guns:It makes so much sense, though, because you get into music, just because you like it doesn't mean you got to be good at it yet, right, right, you don't have to be good at it right now, right, you know what I mean. And they're that classic story of like, yeah, we just want to go in the fucking basement and fucking play, right, right, and yeah, they're influenced by the Beatles yeah what's wrong with that?
Greg Koch:the Beatles were also you can also hear all the Beatles influences wearing on their sleeve, you know exactly, you know, I mean, that's the whole point.
Tracii Guns:And um, you know the the success that they had very quickly wasn't because they were virtuosos, it was because they loved what they were doing and they were very dry with their sense of humor from day one. You know, people love that man, people love humor, people love sarcasm and the other cool thing they stick to playing cool looking vintage style rock and roll things. Yes, even their denim jackets. You know the whole vibe. But, yes, their music is really to the point. It gets there right now. Yep, you know what I mean. It's not fucking around, it's great production's great right, you know. So, you know, I don't know which one it is, but one of them has very good sense, yeah, no, no, no is the guy that writes.
Tracii Guns:It's no yeah right, so that he has a very good sense of what's coming through the speakers and what feels good. Right, you know, and you know I hate to tell you kids, but that's the most important thing, man it comes through the speakers and everybody in the room feels good. That's all that fucking matters absolutely.
Greg Koch:And what I think is so amazing, when you're now I'm watching all the footage of these concerts that they're doing. They're huge, they're fucking massive and every person in that crowd knows those words and they're singing at the top of their lungs and you're like this is it actually gives you hope for humanity?
Tracii Guns:Well, it does, because you know it's a very like. You know I love how you said it's so simple and it is because rock and roll is, you know, and rock and roll has always been the go-to. You know, I don't care if it's hip hop or country, because both those fucking genres right now are just heavily influenced by rock. You know country music, you know I go, I'm addicted to Cracker Barrel, so I sit out and smoke cigarettes. It's fucking delicious, right. So I sit out there and they're always pumping this modern country to the stuff and it's like some guy comes in playing through your SLO. That's not country, that's fucking, that's rock. Yeah, you know that's our country.
Tracii Guns:That's fucking you know that's, that's rock. Yeah, you know, like the snare has a big fucking you know reverb gate on it, right, and you know. But the thing that ruins it is that fucking every goddamn guy sings the same way. But I did hear a Darius Rutgers song the other day that I thought was amazing throwback to what country music really sounds like. And the weird thing is I heard it on my son's playlist.
Tracii Guns:He's not a rocker, I don't want to go into Jagger, he's got another goal in life and his brain does something extraordinary, but it's not music. So I finally got him his first car get in there. And I go what are you listening to? Because he's never listened to music in 16 years. I got a playlist that you put together and he's like yeah. And I go, well, what is it? He goes, I think it's modern country, some kind of hip hop, and called a white girl music, like Katy Perry style stuff. So he has this blend of stuff and it's all the modern stuff. But there was this Darius Rucker song on there and I was like, hey, you know that's the good song. Right, he goes, I love this song. I go, ok, at least you, he could tell he connected to something. But yeah, rock and roll is the heartbeat of everything. You know what I mean, from Little Richard forward. It's spicy Right.
Greg Koch:You know what I mean. It brings the heat.
Tracii Guns:It brings the fucking heat, and there's no denying it. And I got a couple friends, friends, a couple of girls, I'm talking about doing a kind of offshoot band, um, and that conversation's been brought up. It's like I want to keep this simple. You know, I want to go for the throat, I want to have a great time and we're going to be freaks, you know, because, because if we're not, nobody's going to give a shit. You know, and yeah, I've had this conversation. You know, because, because, if we're not, nobody's going to give a shit. You know, and yeah, I've had this conversation, you know, cause I I try to work with young artists every now and then and I'll call up like whoever's, like an expert in the field of whatever music it is.
Tracii Guns:I'll be like, hey, I've got this guy recorded, this record, this is good, you know, and like, the first thing that, like real pros always tell me is they go. You know, send me a video, you know, so I can see it. And like you know, 10 out of 10 times, that guy's a schlep. What are you thinking? You know, like it's an entertainment business, man, entertain me, right, right, yeah, I'm like right, right, right.
Tracii Guns:You know, fair enough, you know, and it is and it always will be, you know, and, and, but guys like us, you know we had a much tougher time discovering Beethoven or whatever. You know what I mean. It wasn't, wasn't in our face all the time, and so you know, when I see somebody really trying, you know, I kind of overlook the schlep factor and like, but this guy's talented, you know, right, I have empathy for this young man, you know, but it is a business and it's the music business and it's the entertainment business, and I have empathy for this young man, but it is a business and it's the music business and it's the entertainment business, and that's the bottom line, no doubt.
Greg Koch:I mean, I remember hearing distinctly a buddy of mine years ago, A buddy of mine from Little Feet and then my buddy Catfish Hodge. They had this band called the Blues B busters and we were doing some gigs with them and and they loved our band and the guy's like, you know, I know somebody at whatever record company and um, and he got back and he goes. All the guy asked was how old are they and what do they look like? You know? And then, by the same token, you're always thinking, well, certainly someone along the line like there's a musical true north that certain people still ascribe to, and you're like no, all they care about is where is success? That's the only language they understand. So if you can be successful with men making really cool shit, great, but that's not the prerequisite, it's not, that's not the prerequisite.
Tracii Guns:It's not funny because if we look at like, uh, alan Freed, and how he would get to get the single, he would put it on the radio and it was a hit because that was the only game in town. Um, and then smarter people came in said this is great, thanks, right. More radio stations, more recording studios, having all these guys in the 50s go on the same bill, play two or three songs and money, money, money, money, money, money, money. Artists last, to get paid, right, right, engineer would get paid a little bit. Up front Radio guys are on their salary, right.
Tracii Guns:So now we get to this point and I was trying really hard for a girl I was going out with to get some radio stuff right and I get a breakdown from the label of what the criteria is like. Real analytics is like a real analytics, real information. I'm reading this. Thought about her age, thought about her audience, didn't matter how good her songs were, it does not matter because the funnel, there's already 200 pieces of sand that are click all the boxes, everything behind those 200 things these people are going to give up and then there's going to be 200 more grains of sand that click all the boxes. So, in theory, yeah, if you have a great song and it's on the radio, yes, you're gonna have great success.
Tracii Guns:Getting to that point is like nearly impossible. It always was right. Yeah, totally, it's not a new thing. But, um, you know, that's why I, like you know, I respect bands like pantera, for example. Right, they didn't have all that. They were so good and so unique. And so word of mouth, metallica to an extent too, that there are some people that cut through all the noise, but it's very rare.
Greg Koch:And we're still talking about one or two artists. You know what I mean. That's what I'm saying, exactly.
Tracii Guns:I don't want to make everybody fill with gloom and doom, but you're supposed to do music because you love it.
Greg Koch:I was saying in connection to the earlier thing we were talking about about the internet is that it has leveled the playing field in terms of you can directly contact your fan base. You just have to build your own fan base. It's still the Wild West-ish that you can still organically, you know, if you're really good, put your stuff out there and get some traction going, although the analytics and the algorithm is being a little prickish as far as that is concerned, but still you can maintain. You know, grow a crowd. I mean that's what we've done. I mean we've, we've built up and I always say you don't need a million anymore, you just need enough. You need enough people to show up at your gig, enough people to support you. You know I just like I started a Patreon thing.
Greg Koch:After many, my, my, my son, dylan, is now taking control of a lot of the different online marketing stuff. He's killing it. You know what I mean. He's like dad, you know. You know we use the example of. You know a lot of these guys who do these YouTube channels. They make millions of dollars. They do.
Greg Koch:And my son's like, hey, if this guy and this guys are making it, you should at least be doing X. You know what I mean. So you know he's kind of taken over and it's growing and that's all well and good. But the biggest takeaway from all this stuff is you do not need a million people, you just need enough people to support you. You get 10,000 people buying everything you do.
Tracii Guns:You're fucking done, oh yeah, that's insane, you know, I mean, and I try to tell people, you know they ask for advice because you know a lot of people have, you know, 10 million followers and 20 million followers everywhere, but they can't sell out. You know a tiny bar, you know, and kind of the whole point of what I'm saying is like, if you're great and you go to open mic night, those five people are going to be like God damn it, Right. And then the next time seven people are going to be there, Right, Like you can still do it the organic way and then use your, your social media to your, to your advantage.
Greg Koch:Exactly, exactly, correct. That's what we've noticed with just the fact of you know, to your point, it's like you can have all this online stuff, but the online thing, as cool as it is, it's not the same as being in the room with people. There's that that whole magical thing, that intangible thing that we all loved and, you know, aspired to music because of that experience, and so it's. It's getting in front of people and, yeah, to your point, you might go to some town and you know there's 10 people there the first time, but if you're awesome, those 10 people and the owners of the bar and the promoter are going to tell everybody they know. And the next time you come through it's going to be more and more and more. But it's, it's that sacrifice of just doing it.
Tracii Guns:You have to do it, man, you know, especially if you play rock and roll, right, like, especially if you play rock and roll. Rock and roll literally means live. You know what I mean. It means alive, right, if nothing else. And you really got to do it. You got to connect with people in a way where they like you. Right, you know, because personality is just as important as the cool stuff you're doing. No, no, you know what I mean. And if you're a relatable human being, you know, nothing makes a guitar hero better than a really great singer. Right, right, right, right. You know, if you got David Lee Roth or whoever and you're great, well, people are going to say you're great, right, yeah. But if you got some schlep and you're ripping all of a sudden, yeah, I don't care who cares exactly?
Tracii Guns:yeah, you know, a great singer makes a guitar hero, no doubt about it you know there's so many psychological factors in in the whole deal, because you know I was listening to isley brothers with hendrix um the other day and I thought to myself, how did this not work out? You know what I mean? Because it had all the same magic. You know, People don't even know about it. It's so weird to me. And you know they dump him out and then he ends up a little Richard for a minute and doesn't know, what the hell he's doing.
Tracii Guns:And then he's like fuck it, I'm going to England. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And all of a sudden it just happens that's because he got in front of enough people. At that point he had gotten in front of enough people in a real setting where people are like fuck. You know, my favorite story is the Clapton one. He goes, he wants to jam with Clapton and Clapton blows him off, kind of. And then finally he gets up on stage with Clapton and Clapton just sits there with his mouth open Like what, what the fuck man? You know, magic comes in all shapes and forms and sizes. And you know, while you're alive, you know, go see some magic. That's exactly correct. I walked right upstage in one venue and got in an Uber to go see you do your thing.
Greg Koch:I remember it well.
Tracii Guns:Because I want what you give. Man, you know like I need more of that in my life. You know it's just everybody's so formulated, even on a rock level. It seems like these days that it's tough to really get the thing, man. You know it's really it's hard to find it. Well, it needs to be done.
Greg Koch:Yes it does.
Tracii Guns:And I can't do anything else, so I'm going to do that.
Greg Koch:Melissa, my friend, it was great hanging with you. I'm looking forward to seeing you at the end of the month and that's going to be a blast. Hopefully we can do some more. I think that's going to be a lot of fun.
Tracii Guns:Yeah, yeah, yeah, we will. You know, one thing leads to the next. I just had my buddy, dave, who's a laid-back country picker, come up and play with us at this festival we did over the weekend. It's so cool when guys get together and do stuff, man, this is like, yeah, no doubt. So that's my mentality. So you know, we'll keep the floodgates open and do as much as possible Coming up. All right, man. Thanks, Greg.
Greg Koch:Thank you my pleasure. Take care, We'll talk to you soon. Peace, Bye-bye. Well, thanks for tuning in. Ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Chewing the Gristle. We certainly do appreciate you stopping by. Make sure you tell your friends all about us. I think they might enjoy themselves. So thanks again for tuning in and we'll see you next time.
