Brett Papa on Building A Guitar Career Online

We sit down with Brett Papa to trace how a working guitarist turns teaching, tone chasing, and collaboration into a sustainable online career. We get real about touring life, the business side of YouTube, and why owning your audience can beat chasing the algorithm. 

FEAST!

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Folks, welcome to Chewing the Gristle, the podcast with yours truly, Gregory S. Cock Esquire, also known as Gregory Cockery in some circles. It's brought to you by our friends at Fishman, Fishman Transducers, if you will, and it features just random conversations with various guitar and music friends. Just kind of shooting the breeze or chewing the gristle, if you will. Due to my road work, we're gonna stay away from seasons, but we're gonna drop these as they become available. We appreciate you tuning in these years. We're gonna keep on doing this as long as we can, folks. If you're enjoying them, we're enjoying them. Can you dig it? Let's chew the gristle. This week on Chewing the Gristle with yours truly, Gregor A. Cockery, we have the mighty Brett Papa. You've seen him online. His glorious content of instructional activity. Both his courses and the ones he produces with a bunch of other Nashville heavyweights. He's a guitar player extraordinary, he's an amp guru, he's a tone smith, he's a cool cat. He's Brett Papa, ladies and gentlemen, this week. I'm chewing the gristle. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, once again we gather around the gristle fire for a convivial musical repartee. And today, the mighty Brett Papa has joined us from his beautiful domicile in Nashville, or shall we say, Franklin, Tennessee. Yes, yes. Where I have been a somewhat recent visitor, and we've been working on a course. But of course, Brett, for all of you out there who know, or maybe some of you don't know, guitar player extraordinaire, also instructor extraordinaire, a very uh intuitive producer of great instructional content. Not only does he uh produce stuff by himself that is great, but he also knows how to coax it out of the visitor to bring their best nuggets to the fore. And he's also an amp guru. He does all kinds of stuff, he's a hell of a nice fella. Brett, what's going on in there? Oh, not much about yourself, man. You know what? I've I'm I'm home for a minute and um just kind of getting used to be home before I have to go back on the road again. But I'm looking forward to seeing you in a couple weeks here.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Of course, me too, man. It's uh it's always a hoot having you out. And uh I just got back from our local breakfast spot. Oh, delicious! Uh-huh. Exactly. I look forward to frequenting that place once again. Exactly. Oh man, are you home like three days a year? It seems like every time I talk to you, you're uh you're out amongst the folks on our well, it's been a little uh it's been a little crazy this year.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Um, you know, we got back for this one tour. Now we're home for a little under a month. Okay, and then we go out for six weeks. And then this summer I've got stuff here and there, yeah, but not a bunch of stuff as far as tours in the summer. But then we go to Europe for about six weeks in the fall. Okay. And then I'm gonna need a little, I'm gonna need a little break. You know, I enjoy it, but doggone it. You know, it's um when you're doing it, it's it's fine. Right. It's when and actually the first day that you get back, it's okay. You get a bunch of shit done. You wake up the next morning, you get everything done, you're paying bills, you're making running errands. It's like the day after the day after you get back that you just all of a sudden like, oh my god, I feel like I'm a thousand years old.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Yeah, I can imagine, man. You are nonstop. That's it's impressive. But I like the rock, Brett. I like the rock. Well, how can you not? I mean, that's what keeps the world going around these days. So that is a fact.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

So, what you been up to lately? What's the later? You're just doing stuff nonstop yourself there in the lair. You got Guthrie coming in, you got Tom, you got your own stuff.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Right after this, uh, Kenny Wayne's coming in to finish his stuff. And then we are going to actually uh he and I are gonna be like kind of uh he has this awesome studio that we're gonna be using together too. And so we're gonna do our first band session there, which I would love to have your band in at some point. That'd be awesome. And um, yeah, test that out. So we're super pumped about that. And yeah, I'm in the middle of like five different courses, and it's always these days, um, you know, because you guys are so in demand, it's more of a scheduling game than anything because everyone's always on the road or in sessions, and yes, so when it does happen, it is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

But tell us a little bit about how you got into this this whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Um, so when I was a kid, um I grew up in Corona no more, and one of the kids I rode the bus was uh was Marty Schwartz. And so um, you know, I I worked in a different job. Like he it was funny because Marty didn't play guitar until I think a senior in high school, maybe. Um and so uh, you know, I never really thought of it. I was in bands all high school and did that whole bit. And uh we were kind of friends, you know, like we were in a bunch of classes together, we had mutual friends. Uh, and so, you know, uh many, many years later, uh, he came back from I think he went to school in New Mexico, and we reconnected, and he was this awesome guitar player. And so I would see him now and again, and then it wasn't until I had a job. Um, I was working at an alternative uh medical clinic that would get out super late. And there was only one place in our town that was open late, and um Marty's band was playing at the time, and this is all before YouTube, right? So we reconnected then, and uh he ended up playing our wedding, and and I remember asking him, like, what's up, man? I mean, what are you doing? He's like, Man, I don't know that you know, it's in a really rough spot with music. And um, he was teaching, I think, in an elementary school or something like that. And he's like, I don't know what I'm gonna do, but there's this thing called YouTube, and uh, I was like, YouTube, what is that? You know, and so, anyways, he ended up doing that, and then I remember talking to him about six months after that, and I'm like, Man, how's the YouTube thing going, or whatever? And he started laughing, and I was like, Whoa, this must be like a real thing, you know. Um, and so he got into it. Um, and he was like a jam bandy blues kind of dude, and he never played metal, so he called me one day. Um, and he's like, Come down and teach them Aussie and and that kind of stuff. And I went down and I I shot some videos for his uh channel, and um it just kind of started like that. He was always super good about, you know, kind of letting me know how he was doing it and like letting me know how to do the entire thing. And so I felt very fortunate from the from the day one, and it was like my out. I was like 33, maybe 34. And uh I had just had a kid and I was building amps for divided by 13 at the time. I was like Fred's right-hand guy for years, and but I was still like, dude, I this is I don't want to do this forever. Um, and so when I saw that opportunity, I was like, I'm gonna try this, you know, and I know it can make money and I know there's a future. It's just it was that kind of stroke, that entrepreneurial little thing in me. And I was like, I could do this, you know, and so bought a camera and uh I just started posting videos. And after a while, um one of my uh this guy, Scott, that I worked with the divided by 13, he had this buddy of his name, uh John, who was a marketing guru, and he wanted to have a meeting with me one time, and he was like, Man, I don't know if you know about the how the internet works and and how lucrative you know having a business online can be. And I was like, Really? You know, I was watching Marty do this, but like wasn't really thinking about you know, um, the business aspect of it. Like, like everybody, I'm like, oh, I'll just get online and post, you know, YouTube videos and then magically it'll happen. And um so, anyways, um after that uh meeting, it kind of really opened my eyes to like the potential. And so Marty and I ended up working together for a long time. And then between this guy, John and Marty and other people kind of teaching me how you actually make money online, then it kind of took off. And then from there, um, you know, that's when I met uh Tim Pierce through divided by 13. Right. And he was the first like guest, you know. Um, I remember going up to his house and uh talking to Fred, and I'm like, You think you think Tim would ever give me like a guitar lesson?

SPEAKER_01 8:47

He's like, Yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

So he called Tim and we had to uh deliver an amp up to him, anyways. And so when I went to deliver the amp to him, then I asked him, I'm like, hey man, have you ever thought about doing YouTube? Because I got on YouTube and there's like five videos of you, and they're not that good, you know, like you should be online or whatever. And so um then we started working together, and that's how like what I'm doing with you and Kenny and Tom and everybody, that's how that whole thing took that kind of turn. Because it at some point I was like, you know, I would imagine that being a person, much like in a band or anything like that, I would imagine that at some point there's a limited life cycle of you know, me online or whatever by myself. And so early on, I was like, what if I built this other thing, you know, um, and and really brought in pros, like people actually doing this for a living, you know, because teachers are great, but like the one thing that I loved about the early like REH videos and stuff like that, it was it was like George Lynch and Paul Gilbert and like real players, you know. And uh, so that was, you know, from a kid, I was like, I needed to be doing that and bringing in the like real people that have really done stuff and really know how to tour, and really um, and no offense against teachers, because there are so many good teachers out there. Um, but like I wanted people that sounded like a rock record, you know. Sure, I got you. That's the licks I want people to learn. And then I want to be the guy next to them asking all the questions I wished I could ask, you know, those guys in the video, like George Lynch, like, wait, wait, wait, wait, you're blowing past this one part, giving no context whatsoever, you know?

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Yeah, and you're really good at that. You're really good at that.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Hey, what's that thing? Yeah, exactly. Everybody always gets bummed at me, like you interrupted. I'm like, but if I didn't, it's blowing by like five or ten things that you know, that's why I love like when you're here, anybody, it's like I'm sitting right next to the person looking at them play from an angle that most people don't see, too. You know, a lot of times, you know, you're when it's on YouTube, you're looking at somebody straight off, but you don't see all the things that are happening with their picking hand and all these like random things that they do that really make a difference. Like Kenny Wayne was over here yesterday filming his course, and I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, stop, stop, stop, you know, and because I was trying to get, he does uh those like really killer like first position minor pentatonic, like all these bending runs, and just he's so freaking good at it. And I was always wondering, like, how does he get that timing? And like, so we were breaking down those kind of licks, and then I the angle I was sitting at, I started watching him and is you know, seeing that his thumb was down, and he was jumping back to the bass string to like set up the timing of these licks, and it's something I would have never seen, right? Right, had I not been right next to him. So, um, yeah, that's in a nutshell, long story long. That that was been the whole YouTube journey, but it's it's been amazing, man. And now we're getting into bringing in bands and I love it. I love it all.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

Yeah, talk a little bit about like you know, just from uh because a lot of people are curious about this, and I know I was for a long time. And is that when you're just doing stuff on on YouTube before you branched out on having stuff hosted at your own website and so on and so forth, um, has it has the monetary thing changed from just being a YouTube person uh in terms of the amount that you a lot of people are like, well, what are you making money from? You're making money from because you're you know X, Y, and Z.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Um, okay, so um there's two schools of thought to make really make money off of YouTube, um, there's three different ways that you can do it. So, one, if you've got a big crowd, you've got like large amounts of views, think like Rick Beato, you know, Rhett Shoel, these guys that are consistently have, you know, 200,000 plus uh views per video, you know, some in the millions. Um and if you have a big enough crowd, you know, like we'll use Rick for an example, you know, he's got five million uh followers or um the views can equate to good amount of uh money, right? And then you start getting in those strategies. You can tell when somebody's video is taking off because it's like first there's the the video that it's like three seconds to opt out of, right? And then it's like the 15 second video, and then it's the one that you can't get out of at all, right? And so you're getting into different hierarchies of money. So that's one way you can do it, but you have to have a lot of views to make money. I think I think the math is somewhere between like 1500 to$2,000 per million views, I think, or something. Okay. It used to be like that. Um, the other way you can do it is if you're on YouTube, you get a lot of traffic, but don't necessarily um know anything about online marketing. Uh, then you can maybe, you know, since you have eyeballs, you can you can turn your views into monetizate monetization through companies, right? So, like you'll see a lot of people that do demos uh and stuff like that. So you can use your crowd to make money that way, you know. So maybe maybe you're making a a thousand bucks a month on YouTube, you know, uh, which is great, you know, pays bills or whatever. Um, but maybe you can get 1500 bucks per demo, you know, or whatever it is. So some of these guys will do a bunch of demos. Maybe they do two or three of those, you know, a week, and that's a good living, right? Sure. Um, mine's completely opposite of that. Like in the beginning, I really paid attention to YouTube um as a way to get a crowd. Uh, but I also knew from the marketing and through what Marty told me and through what my buddy John told me, um, that build an email list because that's like that's uh what they, you know, marketing they would call is a warm lead. It's already people interested in you.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

So from the beginning, that was my focus rather than building a big YouTube thing. I mean, I hardly, you know, except when like you're in town or or Guthrie or on our shooting course, I hardly utilize YouTube that much anymore. I may, I may post personally like once every four months, you know, on YouTube now. Um, because this other business um is just a completely different, you know, thing. It's yeah, my son preaches about the mailing list. Oh, dude, it's it's everything. I mean, it's literally magnitudes of hundreds uh when you get a good email list, depending on your crowd for the average person, right? Um because I have friends that you know, some some friends that I am in circles with. Yeah, some of them make 50 grand a month off of YouTube ad revenue, and that's insane. That's amazing, right? But it's so hard to get there, you know what I mean? Uh, where this other vehicle um is almost a fail-safe too, because you know, what happens if you get kicked off of YouTube? You know what I mean? For whatever reason, right? You you you you'll have to find some other avenue to get online and build a crowd and that whole thing again. And that's so hard to do. So, this other way of of you know getting emails and being able to commute with uh or communicate with people directly is more what I'm a thing, yeah. Yeah, it's a thing. I mean, it works, and then when you teach others, like you know, my whole thing is Marty taught me totally gracious, you know, back when we had nothing to do with each other and just really drilled into my head, do this. And um, and so since he's done it, that's what I do with everybody at Brand. You know, it's like, no, no, no, you're your own brand, you're your own thing. Let me show you how this works. You go do it, and then when we work together, it's even better because now you've got your own crowd and we'll you know cross-pollinate our crowds and right turns into this amazing way to make a living. And now, you know, my my dream was to play the world. But man, I've I've met lots of people that that play the world, and now I'm like, I can make just as much money sitting at home. Right, whether it is people come to my house and really like having fun without the um without having to go out and and physically be somewhere to make money, you know. Yeah. So it's that's my thing. And and and and also I just love it, man. It's like fun. It's like I I think the the fun thing is, is you know, when people come in to do courses and stuff, it's um it's almost like being a kid again. You know, you're in the you're in the house jamming with a buddy, you know what I mean? And it kind of gets back to that pure state where it's I don't know, it just feels more organic again, you know. Not that making albums and doing that stuff isn't, but like as an adult, you know, um, I've been fortunate enough to not have to have that other thing be my source of income. And now I I I really play music like now, I get to be able to sit at home and just do it for fun, you know. Um this other thing is you know, taking on a life of its own.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

So yeah, it's a beautiful thing when you find that niche where you know, you never wake up and go, Oh, I gotta do that today. You know what I mean? It's like awesome.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

My wife always jokes about it, and she and she's like, Yeah, your job's just fun, you know. And I'm like, Yeah, man, it it really, it really is. Like, it's very, very rare that I wake up and don't want to do this, you know. Sure, I'm saying I'm the same way. I yeah, I love doing it. Right. And so that's the great thing, like about you two. You found a way that you can really do what I mean. You get to travel with your with your son and like really have fun uh doing it your own way, you know, and that's so um hard in the music industry to be your own the master of your own destiny, right? Um, even large bands, and and I know because I deal with a lot of these people, they still almost have a boss, you know, and you and I and I try to tell people because I've met enough bands where they've kind of cultivated their own cult following. I'm like, you can kind of make just the same amount of money or better sometimes with your own smaller crowd when you're not, you know, splitting all these these revenue streams with a bunch of different people, you know, right? And and having a massive overhead. Yep. You're just straight to the source, you know what I mean? So you can pack up your van, get your merch, go out, and you're making the money, you know, you're not splitting it with anybody. And so that's that's the facts, yeah. And so the way that you're doing it is brilliant too, you know, and and other bands, you know. So eventually, um, you know, I think we're moving to trying to show people that whole thing too. Like, hey, it doesn't have to be um the typical way to make it, you know what I mean? And then, you know, the the best thing about that too is when you're able to cultivate your own crowd, you can go to different states. You got eyeballs on your YouTube channel. When a record company or somebody in the business world sees that you're already something on your own, then they're happy to do something with you because they're like, oh, this is already like they've already proven they can. Totally, you don't have to do anything with collect money. Um, but they can help you to get to that next, you know, that next tier that that might be hard to get, you know, to. I mean, I I I think it's totally viable for uh people in our sphere to definitely get to like the thousand seat and below. That is uh you could totally do that. Yeah. Um, and that next tier, maybe the 2500s, it's like maybe you can work with a small label and you're still like bros, and maybe you just find some people, you know, in your sphere that are good at business, you know. Right. And then that next level, you know, obviously that's a whole different ball of box, but um, it's not always all it's cracked up to be.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

Well, exactly. That's that's the point I I've made to many folks. It's like, you know, even though you know we're going out and we're doing some opening slots for some folks, yeah, and um, you know, and it's just the three of us and the and the gristle missile. Yeah, exactly. And um, you know, working our own merch, doing the whole thing. And then I see what goes on with the other band. It's like, you know, yeah, you got a bus, but you know, buses are a lot of money. It's thousands a day. Yeah, yeah, literally. And then, you know, they stay on the bus and um and then they shower at the venues. Yeah, and if the venue doesn't have shower, they might get one hotel room and have a runner to go back and forth. And you know, there's like 11 people on the bus, and you're like, damn, I I I don't know if I could deal with that. So yeah, it's it's a lot, but you know, and and then as to your points, like, you know, if you're I always say it's like, listen, if you can draw a hundred people in every crowd in every town that you go to, and you have a decent pick uh ticket price and low overhead, you're gonna sell a shit ton of merch. You're gonna make enough money to make a middle class living, yeah, no problem.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Absolutely, with uh doing it on your own terms, yes, you know what I mean, which is which I don't I don't think people realize that psychological toll. Right. Um, having to do your life, your music, your art on someone else's terms is um that's a weird spot to be in, you know.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

It is, no doubt about it. I mean, literally, when you're I I'd say to people, because they're like, you know, you're getting me, because I'm gonna be 60 this year, believe it or not. Oh my gosh, it's gonna be the big 6-0. And people are like, God. How can you be doing that? You're in a lot of people who are older than I am or you know or are the same age who have stopped doing much, you know, in terms of uh playing other than you know, maybe once or twice a month or whatever. How do you do it? I'm like, dude, I I I show up at a place and the only reason why people are coming there is to come see me do my thing. I have my kid, I'm with another guy I like being around, who's a great musician. We play at eight o'clock at night. I work the merch table, talk to a bunch of people who are glad to be there and are hyped that I'm taking the time to talk to them. I play the gig, I play whatever the fuck I want.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

And at the end, I go back out of the merch table, say hi, how are you? And then we go to the warm bosom of the Hampton Inn and get a little sweet complimentary cookie and chamomile tea in the evening, and then wake up to a sumptuous, sumptuous fake egg and mystery meat breakfast. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

What more do you want? No, I mean that's life. That is the peak life experience right there.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

Well, nice too is being able to stop when you want to stop, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 23:05

And just do it. Well, you like if you want to, you know, when when you're you you're seeing the the country or you know, on your and and actually being able to, like you're saying, like, well, maybe there's a couple days between gigs, like we can go, let's go see some cool stuff, you know. Exactly. Which is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Like another Hampton in. Yeah, exactly. What's a Hampton in Germany like? Yeah. Totally. Oh, I I posted a thing not too long. I was during the Grammys, you know, and you'll have people on on um Instagram, you know, posting, I'm at the Grammys, and da la la la. Or I just won my Grammy. And I and I posted a picture of us. We were on the road somewhere in the middle of winter, and I but I said, I haven't won a Grammy, but by God, I'm a diamond member. That's a feature member parking spot.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Oh, that is amazing. Uh God.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

Yeah, I mean, yeah, which I think that's so cool, man. You get to you get to do that. I mean, what a what a treat to what a cool trial.

Moving To Nashville Through Networking

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Well, let's talk about how you got from California to to Nashville. What was that that whole change like?

SPEAKER_00 24:16

So um once I started working with uh Tim Pierce and doing that kind of thing, you know, I was totally enamored with the session world. Uh and it kind of on a fluke, um, I was we we had this one kid uh who came here and just absolutely freaking killed it when he got to town. But his name was Andrew Du Roberts. He came in because he was touring with like an um American Idol kid or something like that, and simultaneously working for Gibson, doing something. And he came in and he's like, and I was super into the session world, but really oblivious to other places. Like I knew all about the LA session world, but not anywhere else. Uh and he came in and he's like, Man, have you ever heard of this guy, Tom Bukovac? And uh I was like, No. And so this was when Tom had like four videos online. You know, this was probably God, man, it was probably at least you know, 14 years ago or something like that. And I saw him and I was like, Holy crap, who is this dude? So I went, of course, straight back to Tim, and I'm like, What's up with Nashville? You know, right, and so he started telling me about some of these guys, and then um there was a pedal, um, which is funny because it was I was back in the day, it was Mark Lethierry, like before his whole thing super took off. Uh it was this nobles pedal, uh from this, yeah, right from uh Rocket and Um Pedals and uh so that one wasn't being made, and that there was a company called XTS, which is a pedal board company out here who does everyone's boards. And um I called that company and I was like, hey man, um, my name is Brett. And he's like, hold on. He's like, I already know who you are. And he's like, I'm gonna, you've saved me so many hours learning songs. I'm just gonna send you one of these pedals. And by the way, if you ever come to Nashville, look me up, we'll hang out, and I'll introduce you to some people. And I was like, Well, shoot, there's kind of my inn. And so simultaneously, we had um some family move out here. Uh, and we came out to visit one um 4th of July, and this is probably 10 years ago. And um, my wife's like, Man, why don't you just why don't you spend like three more, three or four more days out here on your own, go meet this guy and and see, you know, see how see if anything happens. And um, so I did that. And literally the first day I walk in to meet Greg and we're talking, and then like Rob McNally, who's like another huge session guy, and Jed Hughes, and you know, all of these people um walk through the shop like on a random day. And so I got to hang out and talk to all these people. And uh then um I started doing something with Rob McNally. Like we started working together. I told him what I did, and he was super interested in doing this back in the day, but he was so busy um that that never really took off. But we, you know, he was one of the persons I met, and then he introduced me to Kenny Greenberg, okay, who's another you know, legend out here. And so I started doing videos with Kenny, and and I started getting kind of a foothold out here. And then um Greg is like, hey, there's a guy, Guthrie Trapp. You need to meet this guy, and I was like, Okay, and so randomly it was on the next trip out that um, you know, Greg, the owner of XTS, he he Rob McDelly and his band used to play at this place called the Family Wash. And it was like it was one of those experiences where it was like the my first trip out, I saw um I saw two performances that were just so mind-bending that I was like, and it was a Wednesday night. And I'm like, if I can go from one club to another club and see two world-class bands on a Wednesday night for free.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

I was like, I have got to move here. So every Wednesday night, Rob's band would play at that family wash. And so one of the my next trip out, I went to the family wash, flew in on a Wednesday night, went straight to the family wash, and um and Guthrie was at the end of the bar. And so I went up and I just introduced myself to Guthrie and and um talked to him for a little bit. And um, you know, we kind of talked and he invited me to a gig and I saw a gig. And then I just kept coming back out like every six to eight weeks because you know, it really started to take off. I started to meet all these people and uh Ford Thurston and all of these other people through this this place at XTS. And um, you know, eventually um I reconnected with Guthrie, and then Guthrie's like, man, why don't you just stay at my house when you come out? And Guthrie knows everybody on the planet, right? And like he knows every good restaurant, he knows like this is why his thing that he's doing in in uh trapped in Nashville is so awesome because he literally knows all the best food, all the best everything, right? Right. Uh super fun hang. And so I was like, well, hell yeah, now I can go and I can just stay at Guthrie's house and we'll go out. And um, you know, we became super good friends, and then it just kind of progressed like that, you know. And then I think the first person I worked with from out here was Corey Congelio. Um, and he had done a course with me in California, but uh you know, I started doing stuff again with him when I first arrived here. Uh, and I guess at that point my wife was like, okay, this will this could work. This is a thing that you could do out here. And I was like, you know, Sherry, this is like shooting fish in a barrel for what I do. I mean, they're everywhere, you know. And so um it kind of started slowly like that. And then, you know, when I first moved out, Guthrie was in kind of uh contract and all that stuff. So some of these people were just kind of like they couldn't do stuff at the time, and I was like, crap, I'm just gonna go for it, you know, like I did before. And um just one thing led to another. And Jeff Macrian came out and he introduced me to some people, and I just started doing courses, you know, going with with those kind of people. And then eventually, um, you know, after about three or four years, probably three years, I started doing stuff with um Tom here and there, you know. Uh, and and and once that whole world started opening up, um, that changed everything. You know, once Guthrie and Tom and and um stuff and courses like that really started to take hold, it was like a it was like a completely different thing. And now it's you know it's just on fire, which is awesome. Um, but that was kind of you know, it took, you know, the Nashville thing took 10 years, you know. Right. Everybody's always like, I'm just gonna come to town and be a session guitar player. And I'm like, talk to me in 10 years. I'll say 10 years. Yeah, exactly. So um, but yeah, I mean, I was lucky enough to that I came already knowing a bunch of people, you know, and and really um, you know, doing this and and any of this kind of work, you have to be okay just being helpful to people, you know, and not expecting anything in return. You know, I didn't ask any of these guys, like, hey, can I, you know what I mean? Like, I I if they wanted to do something, yes, when and where, I will be there. Hey, can I help, you know, promote you? Like, all just for free, you know what I mean? Uh with no expectations of anything. And eventually, you know, learning to talk to these people almost kind of um opening their mind to seeing themselves as a brand, you know. They're like, What? Some of these people, like when I met Guthrie, they were so focused on what's happening in in Nashville. I'm like, Guthrie, dude, there's a whole world outside of here. And you know, if you're already the one of the best guys in Nashville, you know, but but you're so, you know, those guys, a lot of those guys were so worried about this pool. Right. And and it's it, you know, when you're here, the level of talent is so high that you almost don't they take for granted how good they really are, you know, right, sure. And uh opening their eyes to like, man, there's a whole other world, you know, try doing this on YouTube, try doing this, try doing that, and and then letting them see that, oh my god, you know, there there is this whole other place.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Um that it's been great, man. And so yeah, it's been it's been amazing. I'm super fortunate. Um, and yeah, I got tons of stuff. I'm super pumped working with you. Kenny introduced us, you know, so uh, which has been great, and um, yeah, man, I'm it's been amazing. So it's a crazy small world, yeah. It's been awesome.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

So yeah, it's so wild. You're mentioning all those names. Like I've known Guthrie for a long time, Mark Letiri, Jeff Maclerlane, all these guys. It's crazy small world, just monster players.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

And you know what's great about all of those guys? I'm so stoked because every single person I have worked with has been so freaking cool. You know what I mean? Like super humble, super good at what they do, just zero ego and just fun, you know. Like, so um, that really helped with the, you know, what I do is just like it really is just getting paid for having fun, you know. And that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

I'm looking forward to this thing in uh in Scotland we're doing.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Oh my god. I will I keep asking myself, I'm like, what the hell am I gonna do?

SPEAKER_00 33:31

I got you and Tom and Guthrie and Eric Johnson and uh uh Robbie Macintosh. I'm like, I have no idea what I'm gonna teach anybody anything. I'm like, maybe I'll just bring a camera and just film. But uh it's gonna be awesome. Yeah, man, I can't wait. I mean it's gonna be a blast. Yeah, what if is your wife going? No, I didn't know that that was uh a thing, and so um we might actually go to Italy first and then just go to Scotland. So we're we're gonna make a trip out of it anyways, but um, yeah, next time. So yeah, my wife's like, I want to go, and I'm like, I don't know if you can go. And then you told me your wife was going.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

I was like, Oh, okay, I guess the wives can go.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Yeah, of course, you know, I don't know about your wife, but my my wife has the last thing she wants to do is hang out and hear guitars all day.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Oh, dude, my wife doesn't care less. She she always likes when whenever we were talking about going out at night to go see a band, and she's like, Is it gonna be like dilly dilly lili all night? And I'm like, Yeah, you're gonna hate it. And so we typically, unless it's a band she likes, we we typically don't go to music stuff, or a little like you know, we're all friends with Kenny, so we'll go watch Kenny play or something. But typically, um, yeah, we don't go out to shows together. So and I was like, it's gonna be a lot of that in Scotland.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

So it'd be a lot of sweetly, sweetly, sweetly, sweetly. Although it sounds like the place is beautiful, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

I mean, Guthrie said it was amazing, so uh he was the one that that kind of hit me to the whole thing and and introduced me to Tony. So um, yeah, I'm just pumped. I'm I'm super stoked and honored they invited me. So it's gonna be glorious.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

We're gonna actually gonna stay around for a couple of days afterward. Oh, yeah, and just kind of hang out in Scotland for an extra couple few days. Yeah, how could you not? I mean, and uh of course that's um that's hoping that the world is still intact by that. But you know, we'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

Well, you're on kind of a secluded island a little bit, maybe at least that part, you know? How could you be mad? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

Yeah, I was gonna talk to you a little bit about it. I the fascinating, what I find fascinating, anyways, about how of you just get used to with your particular brand of content, like what stuff takes off and one stuff doesn't, and and the whole idea of like sometimes you'll post things like man, this is really good stuff. Yeah, and you're like, and it doesn't really do anything. And then something that you were like, really? It goes haywire. Oh, and I it's have you have you sussed the science of it, or do you is it is I know when I was hanging out with old with old Beato, man, that that guy he's so obsessed with with doing everything he possibly can to make every video right do as best as it probably can. But I'm more of the mind of you know, you throw shit against the wall, and if it sticks, let the good times roll.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

100%. So, so Beato, Marty, Rhett, um, guys like that, um, they are serious about YouTube, uh, like posting a video, like within 15 minutes, changing you know, titles and right, it's religion to them, you know what I mean? And so, and they're super good at it. And Rick, you know, he knows people at Google, and so he knows the whole game, and he is brilliant at it. I mean, he really, and you know, all of those guys are um such hard workers, you know what I mean? It's insane, and it's like they are so focused on it. And me, um, I don't, I don't, I don't care about how many views things get. Um, I'm probably the opposite of the spectrum, probably maybe more like you. Um, I as a business owner, I look for what people are saying in the videos. So in the comments, like maybe a video only gets, you know, uh say 10,000 views, right? But there's 200 comments of people like, oh my God, you know, um because sometimes videos are sleepers. You'll put a video out and it does nothing, but then like years later, boom, yeah, for some reason it catches on, and you know what I mean. So um, as a business owner, that that is what I really love about YouTube is um it's instant feedback. So I don't I don't look at metrics for um views. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about what people are saying and the randomness of it. Yeah, I mean, the the videos we shot of you, you know, I don't do shorts very often, but I shot a video of you and a video of Bukavac in that back sunroom over here, you're just playing through an amps, and those things just I mean, like completely took off, you know. Um, and it was like no teaching them, nothing, just jamming through an amp. Um, you know, and so there's certain topics that that um I know will do well, kind of no matter what, because um it's something that's uh universally opens people's eyes to playing guitar. Like it's one of those things where you're like, oh my god, why didn't anybody ever show me this? Um, so I I know how to kind of like there's a few things that everybody's always interested in. So I I know that anytime I do videos on that kind of stuff, there's kind of uh gold to be had there. But um man, a lot of it is. I mean, you're and you got you're competing against uh algorithms and and people's attention spans, you know. Right. Um I think my thinking behind all this was don't worry about what YouTube is saying, cultivate what you want your audience to be into. I wanted my audience to be super stoked on long form content. I don't want to do shorts, I want people to hang out, feel like they're sitting in my room, you know, my living room with me with one of the best guitar players on the planet. Like we're hanging, we're having a beer, we're chilling out, we're doing, you know, that's what I want my videos to feel like. And so I honestly I don't think about any of that other stuff. And it and when I meet people all over the country, um I can tell that that works because they come up and that's exactly what they say. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

And let's be honest, if if you I mean, if you have millions of views and it's clickbaity, that's one thing. Yeah, but if you have no matter how many views, but if if those people are really engaged and are with you, yeah, it's like that's almost more important because they're gonna be they're gonna support you as opposed to just being fly by night clickers.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Yeah, I I rather have 1,000 diehard fans than a million that don't that could care less. Exactly. Um, so yeah, I mean, it's um as a business owner, that's the kind of stuff you gotta pay attention to because I mean, let's face it, you know, I mean, I this is what I do for a living. So, you know, while it's fun, you know, you gotta kind of pay attention to what works. And um, but you know, bringing in players like you and and um and all these other guys, it's really cool because you can see what all guitar players what universally opened up really good guitar players' eyes. I mean, obviously it's always practice. Everybody always looks for that magic bullet and is like, uh no, these guys practice for probably like 50,000 hours, you know, that's why they're freaking good. Um, played in a million bands, thousands of shows. Um, but yeah, you get to see like, oh, look, he does that too. He does that, you know what I mean? So um, I kind of keep that in the back of my mind. Yeah, my my goal is what is going to help somebody get better at guitar, not what's gonna get me 10,000 views, you know.

SPEAKER_02 40:55

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's absolutely yeah, and I always kind of ask people this question during these um podcast-y things of I mean, obviously, I to me you'll get a lot of old school people. I just saw a post the other day, and it was someone kind of bemoaning the social media culture in in respect to the music industry and how the music industry at this particular point in time uh which let's be honest, it's always been it's always been a business that's been you know, they want to make money. I mean, there is there was a time I I was mentioning this the other day that it was, you know, like that that point in that one Frank Zappa video where he's talking about at least back in the 60s, when the old cigar chomp and old men ran the record labels, they're like, I don't know, put it out, see what happens. And then more of their kids took over, and then it became oh, I don't I don't know if that's that's too tangential, and then you know that became more of this you know, gatekeeped thing of uh so on and so forth.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

But well, and it also you know when Frank Zappa was doing it, nobody could see what you look like. So the whole image of it didn't matter, you know. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

There's that as well. Yeah, but now we've got this, you know, we got the internet, and and and it's true where I think that, you know, especially like a lot of you know, manufacturers, music instrument manufacturers, and so on and so forth, they're more interested in oh, well, how many followers do you have on on social media and so on and so forth? And I think the older school people who are just you know more traditional artists, you know, touring during the old-fashioned way, they find that abhorrent and repellent to go online. They think it's like not all of them, but some of them have kind of a chip on their shoulder where they're like, Yeah, well, you know, that that's really kind of um, you know, self-aggrandizing or something. You're like, Well, you're a musician, you're in the entertainment business. What are you talking about? Self-aggrandizing. But to me, I mean, there's good and bad and all that other kind of stuff, but it's like if you cultivate, as you were just talking about, if you cultivate your crowd doing what you love to do, then you have established a direct contact with your clientele that wants to do the stuff that you want to make. So therefore, it's worth the effort. It's not whoring yourself out, it's using the technology in a way to even have less constraints on your artistry. Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Well, yeah, I I I completely agree with that. And the other part of um the old school mentality is you know, when we were kids, you'd open up the record, you'd see like maybe 10 pictures, and there was like a mystery. Right. And you were in a different world. You were you were almost like a god, you know what I mean? And you didn't have to deal with people. And I think a lot of these, um, not everybody, but you know, let's face it, a lot of people in the music industry are as good as they are because they're very, they're. Uh their social skills aren't great. Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

And so we're broken people.

Using AI For Songs And Business

SPEAKER_00 44:05

Yeah. Our Cremogeny people to begin with. And they really can't, they they, you know, like a Don Hanley or somebody like that. You know what I mean? They're just they're so good at what they do, but they're just not nice, you know? And so I think a lot of those people don't like it because they don't have uh people skills, anyways. They their gig is their gig, they make a lot of money, and then they don't want to talk to anybody, they just want to walk out on the stage, see a full crowd, walk back, get on the plane, and go to the next town. Yeah, they're making money, and that's what they want. Um, and not everybody's like that. I mean, I've I've met some great people that are rock stars that are super cool. Sure. Uh we I'm a huge Creed fan, and uh we went and saw uh them the other night. And luckily, uh someone of my friends um you know had backstage, and so we went back and we met uh Mark Tramotti or whatever, and was the freaking coolest dude. Yeah, he's a great guy, super hang, like, dude, let's hang out, like invited us back, like, hey, check out this guitar. Like, like it was just the most normal, down-to-earth person, you know, and it was like so funny to see him. Like, I listened to this band for so long, was so pumped on it. Totally. Well, and just you know, to me, it was it wasn't about like the singer. I was like, this guy writes the sickest guitar, you know. And um, so, anyways, but that you know, so so there are awesome people uh in the music industry, but I think that that's a lot of it, you know, they don't they don't understand that world, they don't understand because they've been almost kept away from people as well, right? Um, because you know, the the managers, it's funny because I've I've known a lot of managers too. And the psychology, they have to kind of whip onto the band to keep everything, you know, five artists in a room, like focused and out the door at you know, 1145 exactly on the bus, like you know, they they kind of almost shield people away. So so I just don't I think there's that disconnect. And where kids, you know, maybe that are um, you know, let's say, I don't know, and and they're you know, um, I think it started catching on maybe I would say people that were probably late 30s, you know, really like grasped that world. And those musicians that are, you know, 30 now or whatever, they kind of grew up in it, or Facebook and and Instagram and all these um things, they saw, oh wow, this is a way that I can use my band, but I can also kind of bypass these musical gatekeepers and go directly to the source. Exactly. And so I think a lot of people started figuring that out. Um, and then it just opened the floodgates to everybody. You know what I mean? Then it wasn't, you know, just bands. It was normal people could open the floodgates to everybody too, and now it's just you know absolute chaos out there. But the one thing that that I support all of it, obviously, because I make a living doing it, but the one thing that the only thing that I think that has been the thing that I personally feel that it's done in a negative effect, or the main thing I would say is it made everybody focused on themselves, you know what I mean? So um it's look at me jam, you know, shred on this this song or whatever. And I feel like the band as a whole, it became more about the performance and not a song. Sure. And and I want I want it to go kind of the other way. Like I've heard all of the performances I have ever needed to hear in my life, seeing the most incredible guitar players ever, but damn it, I want Van Halen again, or I want a band that just the songs are great and all that stuff, and it's and it's um, you know, the the song was good and it happened to have a great guitar player or great performer or great whatever, or Led Zeppelin, and they're all great, you know what I mean? I think social media has kind of made it more about you know, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. You know, um, and I and I would say that's the only kind of thing that I think um is the the biggest downfall of it. But other than that, man, it's freaking insane. Like, and you know, the ability like that you can you can just contact that person. Yeah, it's just like DM whoever it is if they're if they're uh you know if their messages are open and they'll get back to you, you know exactly. Like, holy crap, this is amazing. Shit is wild, yeah. And so I think it's cool, man. I you know, people say the same thing about AI too, and this is a hot topic for everybody, but um man, I think parts of it are really freaking cool. Oh, there's no doubt. Because um, like as a songwriter, you know, at myself or whatever, I can I can uh prompt it to to to ask it what if it you know had this change, you know what I mean? Or like what if it had like, and maybe I don't know what the change is, you know, like what's another way I could take this chorus or something like that? And so you hear something that comes back to you. And so me, you know, 90 90% of the time when I write something, it's off of listening to music, anyways. You know what I mean? It's like I'm learning a Van Halen song, and then suddenly my brain's like, off into the cornfields and I'm sure writing something else. And to me, um, that's kind of what it, you know, AI is to me as a tool. Um, I think it's amazing. So my my friend that I used to write a bunch of songs with, he's like, check this out. I I put all of our songs in and I did one country and I did one metal, and I did one, and he sent it back, and I was like, Wow, that's a trip. And some of the ways that it took the song, I was like, that's actually cool. I would have never thought of that. Right, sure. And so, you know, it's like, okay, now that I've heard that, now my brain can actually write something that I do like, but it goes in that direction, you know what I mean? Um, and so man, I think all these all these things have their place, you know.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

I I like using uh AI for, you know, just like, hey, I'm thinking about doing this record and I'm thinking about doing these tunes, I'm thinking about having this and this and this. What do you think? Yeah, it comes up with the pros and the cons.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

Oh, for one, dude, as a business owner, we took like a pretty advanced AI course, my wife and I did, and I was like, I just want to see. There was this AI book, I think it's called the um AI Driven Leader. Um, and it was the first time I heard somebody talk about AI in a way that wasn't like it'll write your emails for you, you know, or or whatever. This guy um he restructures multi-billion dollar companies, and he was talking about it's his devil's advocate, or he can use it to see through the lens of the company that he's working with, you know what I mean? So he taught he was the first time I heard him talk about, you know, get the video transcript of the people that you're interested in, dump all their information you can find into their you know, language learning thing that you've created for this thing, and then uh you know, bounce ideas back off of it. Uh-huh. Where would they come in? What would their objections be? You know what I mean? And he talked about this whole thing. I was like, whoa, like what? That just and then he would talk about like, you know, he was he would deal with in Asia too. And so over there, the culture is totally different. They're super into saving face. And and so he talked about one of the deals with um his Asian customer was like that the guy was super nervous, and he's like, I have I I have to save face. I can't go ask these people for um more money because it's like you know, I'm gonna feel like I'm a failure. And so he ran the entire uh protocol through how do we save face but still get what we need. And he walked through this whole process, and I was like, Holy crap, you know, and then I took this course, and this woman was saying all the different ways you can use it, and it was freaking mind-boggling how cool it can be if you use it in the right way. It's like anything else, you know, if you go out and buy the freaking 58 Les Paul and a wicked marshall, the tool is there, but unless you know how to play and get it out of it, it's just gonna be a tool, and it's easy to just be like, oh, this thing suck, and you know, whatever. But man, you get the in the right hands, you know, you put that in your hands, and it's like, oh, well, okay, I get it. You know what I mean? So it's crazy. It's all these things are great. I think for musicians to be able to make it, it's never been easier because you have all the tools and the financial burden that used to be the major stumbling block, like recording, uh filming video, um, any of those things that you can have solid promotional material so that your uh they can hear what your band sounds like, they can see what your band sounds like, they can, you know, and then you like you're saying, you know, maybe what are the best markets? What markets uh can I, you know, like AI, what markets, you know, do these kinds of musics do well in? And it's like you know, it is exactly there it is, there's your there's your spot, you know. Um, and so everybody here, I mean it's unavoidable at this point, you know, all the writers in town, like they're all using it because it's so fast, you know. Sure. And then they what they do is they come up with an idea and it's like, okay, now let's get real guys to come in and actually make it sound good, you know. Um, so that it's a tool, you know, like anything else. So yeah, social media is the same way, you know. I think it's I think it's awesome. I I I wouldn't be here, I wouldn't be working with you. I'm I'm with you.

SPEAKER_02 53:41

I mean you know what I think with you know, as as a uh as someone who is, as I said, I'm gonna I'm not old, but you know, I'm I'm getting into gray years. Uh, you know, there's a lot of people that are my age and older that refuse to embrace all these different things. And I just you know, I was lucky that I was put in situations where it was like, oh yeah, I'll do that. And it was just and again, it was because there's no gatekeeper, it's like the easiest thing to just be yourself and and reach people, and then you cultivate a crowd in that regard and away you go. So yeah, if it wasn't for social media, it would be um you know, especially if you're doing your own thing, as we talked about. I mean, if you're doing anything that isn't easily, because you know, especially the record industry, how it got to the point where when there was a record industry about becoming more and more restrictive of genres. Oh, what is this? It's gotta be, it's gotta fit tidally in a oh, this is blues, this is rock, this is country, this is alternative or whatever. And you know, if you're reaching people directly, it doesn't matter what it is. That was the one thing I realized when we started going on the road. It's like it's like it doesn't it's not restricted to being, oh, it's a blues band, we gotta play at a blues bar or this, that it's like, no, people are coming to hear you do your thing, they don't give a shit what you call it.

SPEAKER_00 55:04

No, and and that's the other thing chasing the music dream uh to be in a big band in two of the world and get a record contract, right? You will be locked into that, you know what I mean? They will categorize you and they don't want you to step one foot out of that, right?

SPEAKER_02 55:20

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 55:21

Because they don't know what to do. They're like, Well, we've run all these algorithms, and you know, I mean, they're doing everything like, well, you know, that way now. And uh, you know, the unpredictability of mixing genres is pretty scary to those people. Right, they get so scared. Exactly. Although, you know, you see the irony is you see people do it all the time, you know, and it works. Um, but their brains, you know, it's wild. That that was the the craziest thing about the internet is all these big, and of course now they've caught on, but all these big companies um back in the day when this all first started, I would go to them, I'm like, you know, working with a company or whatever, and I'm like, oh, we we would we're gonna stick to guitar player magazine or whatever. And it's like, so let me get this straight. Here's a crowd of I think you know, maybe I had a hundred thousand people, and I'm like, it's a hundred thousand people, it's me, your product, and a guitar on a screen, singularly focused on that one thing, right? You know, um, it's not a hundred and ten pages. Well, I they're like 50 pages now, but in a guitar magazine with 3,000 other ads, you know what I mean? Exactly. Getting people that are really good in business sometimes, they get locked in their ways like anybody else, you know. Um, and so like that whole aspect of like trying to even people that you think should know how everything works, um, they get locked in their ways. And you see with bands, like a band will break out, and then all of a sudden there's like 50 other bands just like that, but nobody wanted to give that one band a shot, you know.

SPEAKER_03 56:55

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 56:56

Uh, and then some usually it's a smaller person, you know, a smaller record label or whatever, like, yeah, I like this, you know. Right. Um, yeah, it's a trip. And and a lot of times, you know, in record companies, they're they're not in it with like they're not actually experiencing it out in the real world, you know. Um, so it's all numbers and algorithms, and you know, exactly correct. Yes, what does the AI God say? You know? Um, but yeah, man, I this this world we live in is amazing. I'm thankful every day all this stuff happened, you know, because here we are talking. Yeah, talking as a kid. I mean, this was like science fiction, you know what I mean? Like talking to somebody on screen in real time.

SPEAKER_02 57:40

It was like you seen that latest uh movie that's uh not the late, not the absolute latest movie, but it just went on uh on Netflix called Blackberry and about the Blackberry phone. Yeah, and you're just thinking, I remember when that was the shit.

SPEAKER_00 57:54

Remember, dude, it was it took over the entire planet. Everybody was just like it was the first time everybody was just like, and then everyone's thumb started hurting, and like exactly, and then as soon as the iPhone came out, it was done. Yeah, well, again, because you know, writing's on the wall, and people don't want to change, and that's companies all the time, you know. Exactly, they just don't want to, they're afraid of that next new thing of like, oh, we've got this, you know, and it's like, no, you don't.

SPEAKER_02 58:22

But it's wild you think back, it's like that doesn't seem that long ago, and and how it wasn't the world has completely changed. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

Yep. Well, I mean, dude, you know, back to AI. You know, three years ago, look at what the AI video could do, and now prompting uh AI video from nothing, you can get insane. You know, that was the other piece. Once they started going down the the AI prompting wormhole, they were talking about AI video, and everybody's like, AI video sucks. And this one person goes, no, no, no, no, your prompting sucks. So they they broke down how they how they did this, and they started putting in, like, you know, you're a world-class cinematographer. And I think they put in the guy that did all the John Wick movies in the style of blank. Uh, and then they started talking about camera angles and what lens they wanted it to look at. And they started prompting this thing, and in all these different ways, giving it information so it knew what the person really wanted. It wasn't like girl walking on the beach, it was like, you know, girl walking on the beach, it's sunset. There's you know, talking about the sand, like all this stuff. And then you you saw the first incarnation of the video, I was like, that's okay. And then the second one after a couple more prompts, and then he really went into it. And the third one, like really cool prompts, and it's like, oh wow, like that was, and then the video it came back was like, whoa, like you it was a movie looking, you know, and it was just like holy crap, yeah. Like yeah, so yeah, I mean, I guess it's like anything, right? As a guitar player, um, you're learning different styles. Like you, like I can tell you, like, play something like Hendrix, play something like you know, Dwayne Hallman, like, and you've it is in you, and you have that ability to draw from all of those licks, and you can come up with something like that, and then you can make it into your own thing, too, you know. So I think it's all kind of the same, you know. It's it's um how clearly you're able to communicate something, you know. Um, I think in everything that you do uh is the difference, you know. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

Well, listen, my friend, thank you so much for taking time. I looking forward to being down there in a couple weeks and heck yeah, great out, making some music and making some footage. I'm in.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:40

Well, and thank you. So, Greg has been the first person to allow me the privilege of having somebody play through a cranked Marshall 412 in my back room on his entire course.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:53

Yes, it was so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:56

It's wild. I can't wait for everybody to see the course because it was like it was one of those things where the guy and I filming it, we're like in the back as he's playing, just laughing because of how easily riffs just fly out of you. But we uh we dumbed you down a little bit just so the mere mortals feel like they have a chance. So Greg was very good about I said, I we need three levels of everything. We need like uh, you know, the fresh intermediate player, we need somebody that knows what they're doing, but maybe can't play fast, and then we need full-blown Greg live mode. Right, right, right. You did it all. I I opened the session the other day, and it was like it's like 40 performances.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:37

I was just like, holy crap, this is this is gonna be good.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:41

It's gonna be good, dog on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:43

Yeah, man.

Sponsor Thanks And Sign Off

SPEAKER_02 1:01:44

All right, my friend. Well, you take care. I'll see you soon. Okay, sounds good. See ya. Thanks. Bye-bye. Thanks once again to our friends at Fishman and to all you for checking out our show, which we call Chewing the Gristle. We're gonna keep on, keeping on. See you soon.