{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":22.77,"endTime":24.54,"body":"Hello, and welcome"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":22.77,"endTime":24.54,"body":"to a new interview of the high"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":24.54,"endTime":27.87,"body":"tech low code podcast. This"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":24.54,"endTime":27.87,"body":"episode, we'll be discussing low"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":27.87,"endTime":31.98,"body":"code with Mike Fitzmorris. And"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":27.87,"endTime":31.98,"body":"Kevin Nash. Mike is a local"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":31.98,"endTime":35.64,"body":"evangelist, and He's the VP of"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":31.98,"endTime":35.64,"body":"North America. Welcome. Mike,"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":35.67,"endTime":37.92,"body":"thank you very much for joining"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":35.67,"endTime":37.92,"body":"us on the podcast. How are you"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":37.92,"endTime":38.31,"body":"doing?"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":39.27,"endTime":42.45,"body":"Great. Thank"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":39.27,"endTime":42.45,"body":"you for having me. This is going"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":42.45,"endTime":42.96,"body":"to be fun, I"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":42.96,"endTime":46.53,"body":"think. Hope so hope"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":42.96,"endTime":46.53,"body":"so. Could you give us a bit of"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":46.53,"endTime":49.02,"body":"an introduction so that the"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":46.53,"endTime":49.02,"body":"audience could get to know you a"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":49.02,"endTime":49.71,"body":"little bit better?"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":50.91,"endTime":53.91,"body":"I've been"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":50.91,"endTime":53.91,"body":"involved in low code"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":53.94,"endTime":57.18,"body":"development, declarative"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":53.94,"endTime":57.18,"body":"development, rapid application"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":57.18,"endTime":62.43,"body":"of it, call it what you will,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":57.18,"endTime":62.43,"body":"for close to 30 years, both by"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":62.43,"endTime":66.48,"body":"professionals and by citizen"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":62.43,"endTime":66.48,"body":"developers. I've done it as a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":66.48,"endTime":71.73,"body":"consultant, I've done it as an"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":66.48,"endTime":71.73,"body":"IT director. I've also done it"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":71.79,"endTime":75.36,"body":"while working for multiple"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":71.79,"endTime":75.36,"body":"companies involved in low code,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":75.39,"endTime":81.15,"body":"including Microsoft. I was part"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":75.39,"endTime":81.15,"body":"of a team that created"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":81.15,"endTime":85.74,"body":"SharePoint and brought it to the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":81.15,"endTime":85.74,"body":"market and I was responsible for"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":86.13,"endTime":89.7,"body":"developer relations for about"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":86.13,"endTime":89.7,"body":"the first 10 years of its life."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":89.76,"endTime":93.96,"body":"Since then, I've worked for a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":89.76,"endTime":93.96,"body":"couple of different workflow"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":93.96,"endTime":98.01,"body":"centric business process centric"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":93.96,"endTime":98.01,"body":"local companies. For the last"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":98.01,"endTime":101.79,"body":"three years, that's been an"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":98.01,"endTime":101.79,"body":"outfit called webcon. They're"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":101.79,"endTime":108.45,"body":"really good, clever people based"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":101.79,"endTime":108.45,"body":"out of Europe. And I spend a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":108.45,"endTime":113.07,"body":"whole lot of time not so much"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":108.45,"endTime":113.07,"body":"selling product, but absolutely"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":113.07,"endTime":118.8,"body":"selling ideas. And letting"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":113.07,"endTime":118.8,"body":"people make their own decisions."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":119.04,"endTime":123.57,"body":"DSI seller about low code and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":119.04,"endTime":123.57,"body":"how to do it. Well."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":124.68,"endTime":126.9,"body":"All right, that"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":124.68,"endTime":126.9,"body":"sounds interesting. I think"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":126.9,"endTime":129.06,"body":"we're gonna have a really good"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":126.9,"endTime":129.06,"body":"conversation today. Then"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":132.09,"endTime":135.54,"body":"Jericho, also welcome back. How"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":132.09,"endTime":135.54,"body":"are you doing? I'd have you been"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":135.54,"endTime":135.9,"body":"up to."},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":137.34,"endTime":139.89,"body":"Hey, nice to be"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":137.34,"endTime":139.89,"body":"here again. And looking forward"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":139.89,"endTime":143.94,"body":"also for for this one, I shared"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":139.89,"endTime":143.94,"body":"the same opinion as us. So"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":144.18,"endTime":148.35,"body":"looking, very interested to hear"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":144.18,"endTime":148.35,"body":"from from Mike and his"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":148.71,"endTime":153.39,"body":"background, which I think will"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":148.71,"endTime":153.39,"body":"be amazing for for all of us"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":153.39,"endTime":157.53,"body":"hearing. So looking forward for"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":153.39,"endTime":157.53,"body":"for this one. And I'll just let"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":157.53,"endTime":160.98,"body":"you drive Mario, but I'll"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":157.53,"endTime":160.98,"body":"certainly probably have a"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":160.98,"endTime":165.09,"body":"question or two, as I'm"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":160.98,"endTime":165.09,"body":"certainly passionate about this"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":165.54,"endTime":166.23,"body":"topic as"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":166.23,"endTime":169.41,"body":"well. All right,"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":166.23,"endTime":169.41,"body":"please do do quick, ask away."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":170.91,"endTime":173.88,"body":"Before anything, I would really"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":170.91,"endTime":173.88,"body":"like to say thank you to both of"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":173.88,"endTime":176.82,"body":"you for joining us. Now I know"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":173.88,"endTime":176.82,"body":"we have spoken about local in"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":176.82,"endTime":180.15,"body":"the past. But they we do have"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":176.82,"endTime":180.15,"body":"the privilege of having the"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":180.15,"endTime":183.51,"body":"opportunity to desert the topic"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":180.15,"endTime":183.51,"body":"with a spokesperson slash"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":183.51,"endTime":187.68,"body":"evangelist. So not wanting to"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":183.51,"endTime":187.68,"body":"waste this chance. I would like"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":187.68,"endTime":191.4,"body":"to kick off our conversation"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":187.68,"endTime":191.4,"body":"with the following question. Who"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":191.4,"endTime":193.92,"body":"do you think benefits the most"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":191.4,"endTime":193.92,"body":"from low code? citizen"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":193.92,"endTime":196.95,"body":"developers? Professionals? Oh,"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":193.92,"endTime":196.95,"body":"gosh,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":197.459,"endTime":199.919,"body":"that that's a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":197.459,"endTime":199.919,"body":"harder question to answer than"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":199.919,"endTime":202.409,"body":"you might think. Because it"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":199.919,"endTime":202.409,"body":"depends on what you mean by"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":202.409,"endTime":208.379,"body":"Benefit. Alright, so I could"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":202.409,"endTime":208.379,"body":"see. Like, I probably need to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":208.379,"endTime":213.629,"body":"preface this by saying low code"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":208.379,"endTime":213.629,"body":"and citizen developer, or"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":213.629,"endTime":218.579,"body":"citizen development are not the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":213.629,"endTime":218.579,"body":"same thing. Most citizen"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":218.579,"endTime":222.899,"body":"development efforts I've seen"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":218.579,"endTime":222.899,"body":"involve low code, with some"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":222.899,"endTime":226.619,"body":"exceptions, scripting tools."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":222.899,"endTime":226.619,"body":"I've seen a lot of people do"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":227.669,"endTime":231.989,"body":"PowerShell work, for example, in"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":227.669,"endTime":231.989,"body":"the world of Microsoft, as an"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":231.989,"endTime":235.679,"body":"example. But they would call it"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":231.989,"endTime":235.679,"body":"scripting. In fact, they would"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":235.679,"endTime":238.709,"body":"go out of their way to avoid"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":235.679,"endTime":238.709,"body":"calling it code. I wouldn't."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":238.769,"endTime":242.489,"body":"It's code if you in fact, if you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":238.769,"endTime":242.489,"body":"can make a spelling error and it"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":242.489,"endTime":249.299,"body":"breaks, then that's code. But"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":242.489,"endTime":249.299,"body":"it's just a question of how much"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":249.329,"endTime":253.859,"body":"is involved. But yeah, generally"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":249.329,"endTime":253.859,"body":"speaking, citizen developers"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":253.859,"endTime":258.869,"body":"live for low code. Now, it"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":253.859,"endTime":258.869,"body":"depends on who benefits if"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":258.869,"endTime":262.409,"body":"you're talking, given the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":258.869,"endTime":262.409,"body":"professionals have the option to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":262.409,"endTime":265.949,"body":"code, you could argue that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":262.409,"endTime":265.949,"body":"citizen developers wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":265.949,"endTime":269.849,"body":"exist or would barely exist."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":265.949,"endTime":269.849,"body":"Without low code, that's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":269.849,"endTime":274.109,"body":"probably fine. But I care a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":269.849,"endTime":274.109,"body":"whole lot more about outcomes"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":274.109,"endTime":281.519,"body":"than I do about supply side"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":274.109,"endTime":281.519,"body":"issues. And when it comes to who"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":281.639,"endTime":286.949,"body":"reaps business benefit, or who"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":281.639,"endTime":286.949,"body":"reaps the best results from low"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":286.949,"endTime":288.899,"body":"code, that's professionals."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":290.25,"endTime":291.54,"body":"I see. Okay."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":291.63,"endTime":294.06,"body":"There's a lot"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":291.63,"endTime":294.06,"body":"more activity in low code on the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":294.06,"endTime":297.6,"body":"part of citizen developers but a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":294.06,"endTime":297.6,"body":"lot of it breaks a lot of it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":297.6,"endTime":302.85,"body":"fragile. A lot of it requires"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":297.6,"endTime":302.85,"body":"for professionals to evolve it."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":302.88,"endTime":307.08,"body":"Sometimes he'll it's but I don't"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":302.88,"endTime":307.08,"body":"want to be mean or pejorative"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":307.11,"endTime":310.11,"body":"because a lot of citizen"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":307.11,"endTime":310.11,"body":"development work is actually"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":310.14,"endTime":315.09,"body":"pretty good and pretty"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":310.14,"endTime":315.09,"body":"interesting. But a lot of it"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":315.09,"endTime":319.59,"body":"tends to focus on what you know,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":315.09,"endTime":319.59,"body":"I hate business buzzwords, but"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":319.59,"endTime":323.28,"body":"the long tail is not a horrible"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":319.59,"endTime":323.28,"body":"one in this case. In other"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":323.28,"endTime":328.11,"body":"words, we've got on one end of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":323.28,"endTime":328.11,"body":"the spectrum, very high impact,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":328.14,"endTime":332.73,"body":"very high budget high time"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":328.14,"endTime":332.73,"body":"consuming development efforts"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":332.73,"endTime":337.5,"body":"for creating big mission"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":332.73,"endTime":337.5,"body":"critical projects. On the other"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":337.5,"endTime":343.83,"body":"end, you've got an ever"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":337.5,"endTime":343.83,"body":"shrinking tail of small"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":343.83,"endTime":349.98,"body":"applications that affect just a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":343.83,"endTime":349.98,"body":"few people at a time. And if you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":349.98,"endTime":353.46,"body":"add up all of the productivity"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":349.98,"endTime":353.46,"body":"to be gained from implementing"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":353.46,"endTime":356.64,"body":"all of those little"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":353.46,"endTime":356.64,"body":"applications, it does add up to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":356.64,"endTime":359.82,"body":"quite a bit of value, or at"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":356.64,"endTime":359.82,"body":"least it has the potential to,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":360.57,"endTime":365.7,"body":"and a lot of citizen development"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":360.57,"endTime":365.7,"body":"efforts have lived in that area."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":365.73,"endTime":370.98,"body":"And if what was built worked,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":365.73,"endTime":370.98,"body":"would work rather nicely."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":371.25,"endTime":376.92,"body":"Sometimes it does, sometimes it"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":371.25,"endTime":376.92,"body":"doesn't. So when you're looking"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":376.92,"endTime":381.24,"body":"at biggest benefit to the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":376.92,"endTime":381.24,"body":"organisation, this is"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":381.27,"endTime":385.83,"body":"counterintuitive, and probably"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":381.27,"endTime":385.83,"body":"not not going against the grain"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":385.83,"endTime":389.19,"body":"for compared to what a lot of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":385.83,"endTime":389.19,"body":"thought leaders would like to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":389.19,"endTime":393.39,"body":"say on this. But know a lot of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":389.19,"endTime":393.39,"body":"the time that people are best"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":393.42,"endTime":398.4,"body":"able to deal with low code"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":393.42,"endTime":398.4,"body":"development, our developers,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":399.06,"endTime":402.63,"body":"because it's still development."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":399.06,"endTime":402.63,"body":"And even if you don't have to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":402.63,"endTime":408.21,"body":"code like a developer, you've"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":402.63,"endTime":408.21,"body":"got to think like one. And if"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":408.21,"endTime":411.78,"body":"you don't think like a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":408.21,"endTime":411.78,"body":"developer, you will create"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":411.78,"endTime":417.48,"body":"things that are not that are"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":411.78,"endTime":417.48,"body":"going to leave out assumptions."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":419.61,"endTime":421.8,"body":"Or they're going to leave out"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":419.61,"endTime":421.8,"body":"exceptions, they're going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":421.8,"endTime":427.29,"body":"make assumptions that don't"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":421.8,"endTime":427.29,"body":"always hold true. Have you ever"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":427.29,"endTime":431.58,"body":"implemented, say, a simple"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":427.29,"endTime":431.58,"body":"automation or workflow scenario?"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":431.61,"endTime":435.72,"body":"For example, I don't care if it"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":431.61,"endTime":435.72,"body":"involves code or low code, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":436.74,"endTime":440.19,"body":"the client, the customer, the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":436.74,"endTime":440.19,"body":"business stakeholder, whatever,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":440.25,"endTime":442.71,"body":"the person who's not going to do"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":440.25,"endTime":442.71,"body":"the work for the person that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":442.71,"endTime":446.64,"body":"wants you to do it tells you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":442.71,"endTime":446.64,"body":"what's supposed to happen. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":446.64,"endTime":454.29,"body":"what they told you was only the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":446.64,"endTime":454.29,"body":"best case scenario, the so"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":454.29,"endTime":458.64,"body":"called happy path. Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":454.29,"endTime":458.64,"body":"the happy path, they give you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":458.64,"endTime":461.19,"body":"the happy path, they don't think"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":458.64,"endTime":461.19,"body":"about well, what if this"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":461.19,"endTime":464.01,"body":"happens? Or what if that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":461.19,"endTime":464.01,"body":"happens? Or what if the other"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":464.01,"endTime":468.06,"body":"thing happens? should I handle"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":464.01,"endTime":468.06,"body":"it this way or that way? In"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":468.06,"endTime":471.81,"body":"other words, your natural"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":468.06,"endTime":471.81,"body":"reaction, I'm willing to bet is"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":471.81,"endTime":476.58,"body":"to come back at them with a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":471.81,"endTime":476.58,"body":"whole bunch of questions. That"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":476.64,"endTime":480.9,"body":"if they aren't answered, we'll"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":476.64,"endTime":480.9,"body":"create a horrible application."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":481.44,"endTime":485.88,"body":"And asking them these questions,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":481.44,"endTime":485.88,"body":"results in them being annoyed,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":486.21,"endTime":490.17,"body":"maybe dependence, some, some"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":486.21,"endTime":490.17,"body":"will actually thank you for"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":490.17,"endTime":493.56,"body":"having thought this through. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":490.17,"endTime":493.56,"body":"they might even say, Oh, you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":493.56,"endTime":496.26,"body":"actually get it? Well, what you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":493.56,"endTime":496.26,"body":"really get is logic, not"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":496.26,"endTime":501.81,"body":"necessarily the process they"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":496.26,"endTime":501.81,"body":"have in mind. But that happens"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":501.81,"endTime":505.68,"body":"all the time. citizen developers"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":501.81,"endTime":505.68,"body":"don't necessarily ask themselves"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":505.68,"endTime":509.58,"body":"these questions, unless they"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":505.68,"endTime":509.58,"body":"really are developers at heart."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":510.69,"endTime":515.4,"body":"The thing I will say about that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":510.69,"endTime":515.4,"body":"is if you really are a developer"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":515.4,"endTime":518.88,"body":"at heart, and you just never did"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":515.4,"endTime":518.88,"body":"it professionally, and you start"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":518.88,"endTime":523.26,"body":"doing this, the odds are really"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":518.88,"endTime":523.26,"body":"good that within a year or two,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":523.29,"endTime":526.98,"body":"you're going to change jobs and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":523.29,"endTime":526.98,"body":"become a developer instead of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":526.98,"endTime":530.91,"body":"somebody that does it on the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":526.98,"endTime":530.91,"body":"side. And thanks, come on, join"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":530.91,"endTime":539.37,"body":"us we have cake. It'll be fun."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":530.91,"endTime":539.37,"body":"But um, yeah, look, development"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":539.37,"endTime":546.21,"body":"is still development. And look,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":539.37,"endTime":546.21,"body":"you and I could both grab a hunk"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":546.21,"endTime":551.91,"body":"of clay. But if you've got"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":546.21,"endTime":551.91,"body":"artistic talent, and I don't, my"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":551.91,"endTime":555.15,"body":"sculpture is not going to be as"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":551.91,"endTime":555.15,"body":"good as yours. And yours will be"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":555.15,"endTime":560.25,"body":"the only one that that is"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":555.15,"endTime":560.25,"body":"exhibited in a gallery. So even"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":560.25,"endTime":565.08,"body":"if there are 50 of me and one of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":560.25,"endTime":565.08,"body":"you, you're the one that creates"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":565.08,"endTime":567.03,"body":"the most benefit to the world of"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":567.03,"endTime":571.26,"body":"art. Goodwin, I"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":567.03,"endTime":571.26,"body":"like the comparison. Yeah, an"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":571.32,"endTime":572.55,"body":"end of rant,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":571.32,"endTime":572.55,"body":"or at"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":572.55,"endTime":578.19,"body":"least No, no rant."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":572.55,"endTime":578.19,"body":"Jaggu anything you would like to"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":578.19,"endTime":578.52,"body":"have."},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":580.17,"endTime":588.6,"body":"So I'm someone that"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":580.17,"endTime":588.6,"body":"does certainly see what Mike is"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":589.29,"endTime":597.69,"body":"picturing for us. But because"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":589.29,"endTime":597.69,"body":"I'm somewhere in between. I I"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":597.69,"endTime":601.26,"body":"come from a business background,"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":597.69,"endTime":601.26,"body":"but I I've been in IoT projects"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":601.26,"endTime":605.31,"body":"ever since I started my"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":601.26,"endTime":605.31,"body":"professional life. And, and so"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":605.31,"endTime":612.48,"body":"that was 20 years ago and ever"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":605.31,"endTime":612.48,"body":"made that transition really. So"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":612.51,"endTime":619.65,"body":"I've been a developer myself,"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":612.51,"endTime":619.65,"body":"and certainly see how I believe"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":619.65,"endTime":624.3,"body":"I I fit into that citizen"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":619.65,"endTime":624.3,"body":"developer that actually has a"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":624.3,"endTime":629.37,"body":"developer minds. And I think I"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":624.3,"endTime":629.37,"body":"did that transition somewhere. I"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":629.37,"endTime":633.75,"body":"don't know when it through my"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":629.37,"endTime":633.75,"body":"career. And I think certainly,"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":633.96,"endTime":638.16,"body":"this is what I would see myself"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":633.96,"endTime":638.16,"body":"doing what you mentioned, Mike,"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":638.16,"endTime":644.73,"body":"which is how would come up with"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":638.16,"endTime":644.73,"body":"all these questions, I won't be"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":644.73,"endTime":648.99,"body":"happy with what is just a use"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":644.73,"endTime":648.99,"body":"case. And all different"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":648.99,"endTime":653.1,"body":"questions will come up. And and"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":648.99,"endTime":653.1,"body":"I would wonder, but what happens"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":653.1,"endTime":660.21,"body":"if so the user just inserts the"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":653.1,"endTime":660.21,"body":"wrong type of data here? So"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":660.24,"endTime":663.15,"body":"what's the next question? And"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":660.24,"endTime":663.15,"body":"what happens then and this and"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":663.15,"endTime":668.94,"body":"that. And so that was always my"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":663.15,"endTime":668.94,"body":"my way of looking at this. And I"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":668.94,"endTime":673.83,"body":"think certainly, this is"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":668.94,"endTime":673.83,"body":"something that if you don't have"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":673.83,"endTime":679.32,"body":"that developer mindset of so"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":673.83,"endTime":679.32,"body":"questioning all these different"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":679.35,"endTime":684.84,"body":"paths, that that can happen, and"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":679.35,"endTime":684.84,"body":"you have low code is certainly"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":684.84,"endTime":689.34,"body":"going to help you put the"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":684.84,"endTime":689.34,"body":"business logic in there. But if"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":689.34,"endTime":695.01,"body":"you don't have that developer,"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":689.34,"endTime":695.01,"body":"mindset, you will certainly be"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":695.28,"endTime":700.32,"body":"facing with issues of bugs, use"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":695.28,"endTime":700.32,"body":"cases that you haven't thought"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":700.32,"endTime":705.57,"body":"about. And so all of that, that"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":700.32,"endTime":705.57,"body":"we know, happens, and that's why"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":705.6,"endTime":710.1,"body":"we have requirements, we have"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":705.6,"endTime":710.1,"body":"testing and and so it's"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":710.25,"endTime":713.52,"body":"development that goes a long"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":710.25,"endTime":713.52,"body":"way. And it's not just a"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":713.52,"endTime":717.78,"body":"question of having a form that"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":713.52,"endTime":717.78,"body":"that works with one particular"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":717.78,"endTime":718.2,"body":"case."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":719.34,"endTime":722.46,"body":"Yeah, I found?"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":719.34,"endTime":722.46,"body":"Well, yeah, there are a couple"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":722.46,"endTime":725.28,"body":"more things we could do along"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":722.46,"endTime":725.28,"body":"the slide. I don't really want"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":725.28,"endTime":728.76,"body":"to spend too much time talking"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":725.28,"endTime":728.76,"body":"about things that citizen"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":728.76,"endTime":733.05,"body":"developers who don't have a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":728.76,"endTime":733.05,"body":"developer mindset failed to do."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":733.35,"endTime":736.62,"body":"Topics been done the deaf, and I"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":733.35,"endTime":736.62,"body":"don't think we've, I don't think"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":736.62,"endTime":739.44,"body":"we're gonna argue with each"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":736.62,"endTime":739.44,"body":"other very much about that. But,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":739.68,"endTime":744.54,"body":"you know, it's things like"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":739.68,"endTime":744.54,"body":"security, like, do you? How do"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":744.54,"endTime":748.5,"body":"you handle accessing data so"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":744.54,"endTime":748.5,"body":"that SQL injection errors or"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":748.5,"endTime":755.01,"body":"attacks don't take place? Or,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":748.5,"endTime":755.01,"body":"you know, any of a number of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":755.01,"endTime":758.07,"body":"things that are security"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":755.01,"endTime":758.07,"body":"related, there's still hope"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":758.1,"endTime":763.35,"body":"there aren't so many holes in"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":758.1,"endTime":763.35,"body":"Word macros and Excel macros and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":763.35,"endTime":766.65,"body":"so on that there used to be, but"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":763.35,"endTime":766.65,"body":"there are still options or"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":766.65,"endTime":771.51,"body":"things to fail to think about,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":766.65,"endTime":771.51,"body":"even if How about this, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":771.54,"endTime":779.22,"body":"projects with a lot of Loko"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":771.54,"endTime":779.22,"body":"tools, assume by default that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":779.22,"endTime":782.7,"body":"you're developing in production,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":779.22,"endTime":782.7,"body":"and that everybody has"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":782.7,"endTime":787.08,"body":"permissions to do everything."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":782.7,"endTime":787.08,"body":"And it's the job of the citizen"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":787.08,"endTime":790.65,"body":"developer to think through or"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":787.08,"endTime":790.65,"body":"the local developer, I should"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":790.65,"endTime":794.43,"body":"say, to think through how to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":790.65,"endTime":794.43,"body":"take away privileges people"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":794.43,"endTime":797.97,"body":"shouldn't have. But it's a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":794.43,"endTime":797.97,"body":"subtractive approach, as opposed"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":797.97,"endTime":801.99,"body":"to an additive one, which means"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":797.97,"endTime":801.99,"body":"if you do nothing, anyone can do"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":801.99,"endTime":809.25,"body":"anything. That thinking through"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":801.99,"endTime":809.25,"body":"security carefully, not matters."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":809.25,"endTime":813.72,"body":"And that actually has nothing to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":809.25,"endTime":813.72,"body":"do with code. That's we come"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":813.72,"endTime":817.2,"body":"back to the developer mindset"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":813.72,"endTime":817.2,"body":"for that, in fact, one of our"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":817.2,"endTime":823.11,"body":"clients last year, what did he"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":817.2,"endTime":823.11,"body":"say about this? Oh, development"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":823.11,"endTime":830.31,"body":"is only 10% of delivery. That"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":823.11,"endTime":830.31,"body":"other 90% involves change"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":830.31,"endTime":835.65,"body":"management, deployment, user"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":830.31,"endTime":835.65,"body":"education, it education, for"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":835.65,"endTime":840.45,"body":"maintenance purposes, security,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":835.65,"endTime":840.45,"body":"auditing, to prove things"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":840.45,"endTime":844.77,"body":"happen. Metrics and monitoring,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":840.45,"endTime":844.77,"body":"not the same thing, because"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":844.77,"endTime":851.31,"body":"that's like application health"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":844.77,"endTime":851.31,"body":"system health, performance"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":851.31,"endTime":854.67,"body":"against metrics, and so on and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":851.31,"endTime":854.67,"body":"so forth. It's not it's not"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":854.7,"endTime":857.25,"body":"auditing. It's something"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":854.7,"endTime":857.25,"body":"different, but it's related and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":857.25,"endTime":860.64,"body":"involves keeping track of what"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":857.25,"endTime":860.64,"body":"took place and presenting it the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":860.64,"endTime":866.25,"body":"right way. There's a long list"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":860.64,"endTime":866.25,"body":"of things that have to be done."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":868.77,"endTime":872.49,"body":"And again, somebody with either"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":868.77,"endTime":872.49,"body":"a developer mindset and a lot"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":872.49,"endTime":876.57,"body":"and some experience they gained"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":872.49,"endTime":876.57,"body":"along the way or someone who's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":876.57,"endTime":882.42,"body":"been professionally trained,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":876.57,"endTime":882.42,"body":"knows these things. A casual"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":882.51,"endTime":890.85,"body":"dabbler does not. So I circled"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":882.51,"endTime":890.85,"body":"back to the original question."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":892.74,"endTime":897.3,"body":"The world is benefited more,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":892.74,"endTime":897.3,"body":"more from low code when it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":897.3,"endTime":900.51,"body":"been used by people who know"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":897.3,"endTime":900.51,"body":"what they're doing As opposed to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":900.51,"endTime":905.4,"body":"people that are experiment every"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":900.51,"endTime":905.4,"body":"once in a while those"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":905.4,"endTime":909.6,"body":"experiments however produce"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":905.4,"endTime":909.6,"body":"really interesting results. I"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":909.6,"endTime":912.69,"body":"don't want to devalue that. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":909.6,"endTime":912.69,"body":"by the way, if you write an"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":912.69,"endTime":920.1,"body":"insecure you know barely"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":912.69,"endTime":920.1,"body":"audited, happy path only"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":920.22,"endTime":923.85,"body":"automation scenario but"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":920.22,"endTime":923.85,"body":"scratches a very necessary itch"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":923.85,"endTime":927.87,"body":"only you and maybe your"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":923.85,"endTime":927.87,"body":"immediate colleagues feel fine"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":927.87,"endTime":931.98,"body":"who am I to tell you you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":927.87,"endTime":931.98,"body":"shouldn't do that. But the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":931.98,"endTime":936.36,"body":"moment you start sharing that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":931.98,"endTime":936.36,"body":"with other people, wackiness"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":936.36,"endTime":937.26,"body":"ensues,"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":938.19,"endTime":938.94,"body":"nice."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":939.45,"endTime":944.31,"body":"Scope it"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":939.45,"endTime":944.31,"body":"right. minimise the risk and can"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":944.31,"endTime":945.36,"body":"all have a good time."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":947.61,"endTime":952.95,"body":"Okay, changing"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":947.61,"endTime":952.95,"body":"gears now. Is locode entirely"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":952.95,"endTime":957.09,"body":"completely on its online? Or can"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":952.95,"endTime":957.09,"body":"it learn things from the world"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":957.09,"endTime":961.26,"body":"of traditional coding high code?"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":957.09,"endTime":961.26,"body":"And if so, what can they learn?"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":961.86,"endTime":964.86,"body":"Okay, has to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":961.86,"endTime":964.86,"body":"learn things from the world pi"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":964.86,"endTime":970.8,"body":"code? If it doesn't, it's not"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":964.86,"endTime":970.8,"body":"going to be very effective. So"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":970.8,"endTime":975.09,"body":"we come back to two things here,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":970.8,"endTime":975.09,"body":"something I said which was low"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":975.09,"endTime":977.82,"body":"code development is still"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":975.09,"endTime":977.82,"body":"development. And the second"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":977.82,"endTime":985.65,"body":"thing would be that developments"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":977.82,"endTime":985.65,"body":"only 10% of delivery. Things"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":985.68,"endTime":991.92,"body":"like agile, not agile, like the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":985.68,"endTime":991.92,"body":"religion some people make it out"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":991.92,"endTime":996.51,"body":"to be, but agile, like the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":991.92,"endTime":996.51,"body":"principle of team of people"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":996.51,"endTime":1002.3,"body":"contributing specific strengths"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":996.51,"endTime":1002.3,"body":"to an efforts, very short"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1002.3,"endTime":1005.18,"body":"release cycles, constant"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1002.3,"endTime":1005.18,"body":"iteration, continuous"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1005.18,"endTime":1011.42,"body":"improvement, that that kind of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1005.18,"endTime":1011.42,"body":"concept. That can and probably"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1011.42,"endTime":1018.14,"body":"should be applied to locode."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1011.42,"endTime":1018.14,"body":"Mike, you know, webcon is"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1018.14,"endTime":1021.35,"body":"devoted to that that concept."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1018.14,"endTime":1021.35,"body":"We're not the only one. But but"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1021.41,"endTime":1024.23,"body":"I'd like to think we're pretty"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1021.41,"endTime":1024.23,"body":"good about it. But, again, it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1024.23,"endTime":1027.71,"body":"the idea that matters here. If"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1024.23,"endTime":1027.71,"body":"you're going to release"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1027.71,"endTime":1032.48,"body":"something, just because it's low"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1027.71,"endTime":1032.48,"body":"code doesn't mean that it's a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1032.48,"endTime":1037.4,"body":"one and done. In fact, I know of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1032.48,"endTime":1037.4,"body":"a low code company that has in"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1037.4,"endTime":1040.13,"body":"the past, they've since been"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1037.4,"endTime":1040.13,"body":"acquired, but they used to do a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1040.13,"endTime":1043.88,"body":"brisk business, but they"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1040.13,"endTime":1043.88,"body":"actually had a marketing"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1043.88,"endTime":1048.05,"body":"campaign devoted around"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1043.88,"endTime":1048.05,"body":"disposable applications,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1048.29,"endTime":1052.19,"body":"disposable applications,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1048.29,"endTime":1052.19,"body":"disposable applications. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1052.43,"endTime":1055.73,"body":"And I would argue that if an"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1052.43,"endTime":1055.73,"body":"application is disposable, that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1055.73,"endTime":1060.74,"body":"means barely usable. If any"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1055.73,"endTime":1060.74,"body":"application that's worth"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1060.74,"endTime":1065.18,"body":"something is probably going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1060.74,"endTime":1065.18,"body":"have an extended life of some"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1065.18,"endTime":1065.69,"body":"sort."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1065.93,"endTime":1068.99,"body":"Oh, yeah. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1065.93,"endTime":1068.99,"body":"just the time you spend"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1068.99,"endTime":1069.65,"body":"developing it."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1070.49,"endTime":1073.64,"body":"Yeah. And part"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1070.49,"endTime":1073.64,"body":"of that mindset was okay, well,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1073.64,"endTime":1076.76,"body":"we realise the application no"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1073.64,"endTime":1076.76,"body":"longer does what we need,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1076.76,"endTime":1079.79,"body":"because our our requirements"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1076.76,"endTime":1079.79,"body":"have changed, the world has"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1079.79,"endTime":1082.82,"body":"moved on our business conditions"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1079.79,"endTime":1082.82,"body":"are the same, we'll just replace"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1082.82,"endTime":1087.35,"body":"it with a whole new application."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1082.82,"endTime":1087.35,"body":"That seems incredibly wasteful,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1087.41,"endTime":1090.98,"body":"and possibly something that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1087.41,"endTime":1090.98,"body":"would result in a loss of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1091.07,"endTime":1096.35,"body":"historical excuse me historical"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1091.07,"endTime":1096.35,"body":"data. I don't want to see that."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1096.74,"endTime":1101.87,"body":"So yeah, there are all kinds of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1096.74,"endTime":1101.87,"body":"things going on in the world of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1101.87,"endTime":1105.86,"body":"professional development that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1101.87,"endTime":1105.86,"body":"Loko development really, really"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1105.86,"endTime":1111.71,"body":"needs to keep track of change"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1105.86,"endTime":1111.71,"body":"management matters to stage"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1111.74,"endTime":1115.64,"body":"deployment from a development"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1111.74,"endTime":1115.64,"body":"environment to a test"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1115.64,"endTime":1119.18,"body":"environment to a production"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1115.64,"endTime":1119.18,"body":"environment. These are things"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1119.18,"endTime":1123.26,"body":"developers take for granted,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1119.18,"endTime":1123.26,"body":"it's second nature, you're"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1123.29,"endTime":1125.9,"body":"you're not in the club, if you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1123.29,"endTime":1125.9,"body":"don't follow these things,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1125.9,"endTime":1130.55,"body":"because they're not even"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1125.9,"endTime":1130.55,"body":"controversial anymore. It is"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1130.55,"endTime":1134.63,"body":"scary. The degree to which I"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1130.55,"endTime":1134.63,"body":"would I would argue that the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1134.63,"endTime":1138.02,"body":"majority of citizen development"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1134.63,"endTime":1138.02,"body":"efforts never consider those"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1138.02,"endTime":1140.9,"body":"kinds of things, they kind of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1138.02,"endTime":1140.9,"body":"think of one and done and they"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1140.9,"endTime":1144.56,"body":"think of developing and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1140.9,"endTime":1144.56,"body":"deploying directly into"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1144.56,"endTime":1151.01,"body":"production. And again, if this"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1144.56,"endTime":1151.01,"body":"is like you and me working"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1151.01,"endTime":1155.03,"body":"together in a in a small team,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1151.01,"endTime":1155.03,"body":"and we're building a happy path"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1155.03,"endTime":1161.54,"body":"thing, you know, and it's just"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1155.03,"endTime":1161.54,"body":"for us, fine. We start sharing"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1161.54,"endTime":1164.66,"body":"it with someone else. Not so"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1161.54,"endTime":1164.66,"body":"fine."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1165.38,"endTime":1167.18,"body":"Problems are sure"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1165.38,"endTime":1167.18,"body":"to appear,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1167.84,"endTime":1171.89,"body":"and patterns,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1167.84,"endTime":1171.89,"body":"like thinking through, you know,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1172.7,"endTime":1178.76,"body":"try to explain a loop or a state"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1172.7,"endTime":1178.76,"body":"machine or certain just parallel"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1178.76,"endTime":1183.02,"body":"processing and making sure"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1178.76,"endTime":1183.02,"body":"things think sync up so that you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1183.02,"endTime":1185.66,"body":"know when it's safe to move"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1183.02,"endTime":1185.66,"body":"forward from all the parallel"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1185.66,"endTime":1193.4,"body":"paths, some kind of signalling"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1185.66,"endTime":1193.4,"body":"going on. These are ideas,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1193.52,"endTime":1198.02,"body":"they're not code. But if you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1193.52,"endTime":1198.02,"body":"don't do this, it really really"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1198.02,"endTime":1202.37,"body":"limits what someone's allowed to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1198.02,"endTime":1202.37,"body":"do to basically a simple set of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1202.46,"endTime":1207.23,"body":"linear sequence events, maybe"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1202.46,"endTime":1207.23,"body":"passing data from step to step."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1207.65,"endTime":1212.0,"body":"And again, it's it limits what's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1207.65,"endTime":1212.0,"body":"possible, maybe not in a bad"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1212.0,"endTime":1215.06,"body":"way. But for the love of God, we"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1212.0,"endTime":1215.06,"body":"can't bet the business on one of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1215.06,"endTime":1215.66,"body":"those things."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1216.8,"endTime":1220.7,"body":"That's actually a"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1216.8,"endTime":1220.7,"body":"good point. And what about you?"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1221.84,"endTime":1222.47,"body":"What do you think?"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1222.8,"endTime":1231.2,"body":"I was just thinking"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1222.8,"endTime":1231.2,"body":"about how I see, maybe it's next"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1231.23,"endTime":1238.01,"body":"next question, but how local"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1231.23,"endTime":1238.01,"body":"vendors and so that the low code"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1238.04,"endTime":1242.27,"body":"concept in itself, so comes from"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1238.04,"endTime":1242.27,"body":"that application development"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1242.3,"endTime":1247.49,"body":"beginning, but at the same time,"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1242.3,"endTime":1247.49,"body":"so I think what we see nowadays"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1247.52,"endTime":1253.16,"body":"is exactly what Mike is, is"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1247.52,"endTime":1253.16,"body":"referring to, which is the"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1253.19,"endTime":1257.03,"body":"concept of low code is moving"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1253.19,"endTime":1257.03,"body":"away from just being then the"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1257.03,"endTime":1262.04,"body":"development, and is now being"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1257.03,"endTime":1262.04,"body":"taken to other parts of in this"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1262.04,"endTime":1267.83,"body":"case, the delivery, as well as"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1262.04,"endTime":1267.83,"body":"even other technologies. But the"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1267.83,"endTime":1272.39,"body":"question is still there that we"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1267.83,"endTime":1272.39,"body":"are just abstracting complexity,"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1272.51,"endTime":1280.76,"body":"and that yet at still, at this"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1272.51,"endTime":1280.76,"body":"stage, I don't see how someone"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1280.76,"endTime":1285.77,"body":"just without that developer"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1280.76,"endTime":1285.77,"body":"mindset, or at least some basic"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1285.77,"endTime":1292.61,"body":"technical background, is capable"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1285.77,"endTime":1292.61,"body":"to still deliver a robust, so"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1292.7,"endTime":1296.72,"body":"scalable application. And so all"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1292.7,"endTime":1296.72,"body":"of those concepts that we know"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1296.75,"endTime":1303.02,"body":"are behind a corporate delivery"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1296.75,"endTime":1303.02,"body":"of either then something that"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1303.26,"endTime":1306.29,"body":"can be small, like you're"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1303.26,"endTime":1306.29,"body":"saying, if it's just to be"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1306.29,"endTime":1309.56,"body":"shared between family and"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1306.29,"endTime":1309.56,"body":"friends, it's not going to be"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1309.59,"endTime":1312.83,"body":"anything critical for any"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1309.59,"endTime":1312.83,"body":"business, probably, it's fine."},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1313.16,"endTime":1315.44,"body":"But when we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1313.16,"endTime":1315.44,"body":"then critical business"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1315.44,"endTime":1319.07,"body":"applications, it's all of these"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1315.44,"endTime":1319.07,"body":"needs, certainly to be taken"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1319.07,"endTime":1323.96,"body":"care of. And, and I think that's"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1319.07,"endTime":1323.96,"body":"where local with citizen citizen"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1323.96,"endTime":1332.63,"body":"developers can go only thus far."},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1323.96,"endTime":1332.63,"body":"And, and so you cannot have a"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1332.63,"endTime":1336.95,"body":"complete delivery, just with"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1332.63,"endTime":1336.95,"body":"citizen developers. And I think"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1336.95,"endTime":1340.13,"body":"there was a bit of more hype"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1336.95,"endTime":1340.13,"body":"around citizen developers two,"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1340.13,"endTime":1344.21,"body":"three years ago, or so. I think"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1340.13,"endTime":1344.21,"body":"that there's been at least some"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1344.21,"endTime":1350.81,"body":"realisation that it's good, I"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1344.21,"endTime":1350.81,"body":"think that we have low code"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1350.81,"endTime":1354.56,"body":"being a facilitator of the"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1350.81,"endTime":1354.56,"body":"collaboration between business"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1354.56,"endTime":1359.93,"body":"and IT. But that doesn't mean so"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1354.56,"endTime":1359.93,"body":"just business can take over and,"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1360.47,"endTime":1365.66,"body":"and do their own delivery. So"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1360.47,"endTime":1365.66,"body":"take over it at that. I don't"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1365.66,"endTime":1367.97,"body":"see that happening anytime soon,"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1365.66,"endTime":1367.97,"body":"at least."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1368.57,"endTime":1373.13,"body":"Yeah, in fact,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1368.57,"endTime":1373.13,"body":"you know, I, let's be very clear"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1373.13,"endTime":1377.36,"body":"here. I'm not anti citizen"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1373.13,"endTime":1377.36,"body":"development, I'm pro citizen"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1377.36,"endTime":1384.62,"body":"development with a fence around"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1377.36,"endTime":1384.62,"body":"it. And what I am anti is people"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1384.62,"endTime":1389.63,"body":"thinking low code equals citizen"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1384.62,"endTime":1389.63,"body":"development. Low code is bigger"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1389.63,"endTime":1393.29,"body":"than that. I love low code. In"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1389.63,"endTime":1393.29,"body":"fact, I want professionals to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1393.29,"endTime":1398.24,"body":"use low code as much as"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1393.29,"endTime":1398.24,"body":"possible, as long as they choose"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1398.24,"endTime":1404.3,"body":"their low code tools carefully,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1398.24,"endTime":1404.3,"body":"because low code cannot be a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1404.3,"endTime":1412.34,"body":"wash, down, or a watered down"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1404.3,"endTime":1412.34,"body":"version of real development. My"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1412.37,"endTime":1416.99,"body":"whole goal in life, my company's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1412.37,"endTime":1416.99,"body":"sole goal in life, is for load"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1416.99,"endTime":1421.97,"body":"code to be real, professional"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1416.99,"endTime":1421.97,"body":"development, that just takes"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1421.97,"endTime":1426.95,"body":"less time and produces more"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1421.97,"endTime":1426.95,"body":"reliable, predictable results"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1427.01,"endTime":1433.28,"body":"and gets more done in less time"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1427.01,"endTime":1433.28,"body":"with better results. That's the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1433.28,"endTime":1438.2,"body":"goal of of professional, low"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1433.28,"endTime":1438.2,"body":"code, low code for adults, if"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1438.2,"endTime":1445.01,"body":"you would. I think that matters"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1438.2,"endTime":1445.01,"body":"a lot. And so, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1445.01,"endTime":1447.89,"body":"you've got a low code system"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1445.01,"endTime":1447.89,"body":"that only focuses on the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1447.89,"endTime":1452.27,"body":"development part building thing,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1447.89,"endTime":1452.27,"body":"you're probably looking at"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1452.27,"endTime":1456.74,"body":"something that is watered down."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1452.27,"endTime":1456.74,"body":"If you're if you've got low code"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1456.74,"endTime":1462.08,"body":"that only thinks in terms of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1456.74,"endTime":1462.08,"body":"data, in other words, its"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1462.08,"endTime":1466.61,"body":"development model is based"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1462.08,"endTime":1466.61,"body":"around Oh, I'm going to I have a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1466.61,"endTime":1472.13,"body":"canvas that will manifest as a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1466.61,"endTime":1472.13,"body":"webpage or a mobile app. I'm"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1472.13,"endTime":1475.19,"body":"going to draw some controls,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1472.13,"endTime":1475.19,"body":"drop it onto the form. I'm going"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1475.19,"endTime":1478.64,"body":"to bind that to some data. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1475.19,"endTime":1478.64,"body":"then I'll add some reactive"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1478.64,"endTime":1483.08,"body":"logic when somebody you know"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1478.64,"endTime":1483.08,"body":"clicks on something that's a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1483.08,"endTime":1490.67,"body":"very limiting or limited"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1483.08,"endTime":1490.67,"body":"application pattern, if it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1490.67,"endTime":1493.67,"body":"appropriate some of the time but"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1490.67,"endTime":1493.67,"body":"usually if you're editing data,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1493.67,"endTime":1496.34,"body":"you're doing it for a reason. So"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1493.67,"endTime":1496.34,"body":"I really want to see the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1496.34,"endTime":1500.18,"body":"business process show up in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1496.34,"endTime":1500.18,"body":"application model somehow. Not"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1500.18,"endTime":1506.51,"body":"just reactive activity. But, you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1500.18,"endTime":1506.51,"body":"know, there are plenty of low"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1506.51,"endTime":1512.09,"body":"code platforms out there that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1506.51,"endTime":1512.09,"body":"think beyond, you know, building"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1512.09,"endTime":1514.04,"body":"something. And the thing that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1512.09,"endTime":1514.04,"body":"you're building in the first"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1514.04,"endTime":1520.13,"body":"place is nothing more than a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1514.04,"endTime":1520.13,"body":"table editor. So yeah, depends"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1520.13,"endTime":1524.0,"body":"on the tools. But you know,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1520.13,"endTime":1524.0,"body":"actually, that's true of even"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1524.03,"endTime":1527.51,"body":"high code or classic code"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1524.03,"endTime":1527.51,"body":"environments, there are some IDs"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1527.51,"endTime":1532.82,"body":"that are great, and some that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1527.51,"endTime":1532.82,"body":"are terrible. So yeah, choose"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1532.82,"endTime":1538.1,"body":"your tools carefully. And low"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1532.82,"endTime":1538.1,"body":"code is 100%. Professional. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1538.13,"endTime":1543.41,"body":"again, you won't have all the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1538.13,"endTime":1543.41,"body":"freedom of full code. But you'll"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1543.41,"endTime":1548.3,"body":"have a lot more productivity,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1543.41,"endTime":1548.3,"body":"meaning, more output faster"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1548.3,"endTime":1552.59,"body":"output for the same amount of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1548.3,"endTime":1552.59,"body":"work or same output with a whole"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1552.59,"endTime":1558.74,"body":"lot less work. If you turned low"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1552.59,"endTime":1558.74,"body":"code, and include that, as part"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1558.77,"endTime":1561.56,"body":"of professional development"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1558.77,"endTime":1561.56,"body":"shops repertoire,"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1562.67,"endTime":1564.44,"body":"we kind of touched"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1562.67,"endTime":1564.44,"body":"on the next question. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1564.44,"endTime":1569.42,"body":"going to jump over to the next"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1564.44,"endTime":1569.42,"body":"one. Oh, okay. Because you just"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1569.42,"endTime":1577.04,"body":"answered it. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1569.42,"endTime":1577.04,"body":"Okay, this is perfect. And so"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1577.04,"endTime":1582.47,"body":"pick it up as a segue to the"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1577.04,"endTime":1582.47,"body":"next one. And are the local"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1582.47,"endTime":1586.76,"body":"platforms, the silver bullet for"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1582.47,"endTime":1586.76,"body":"many of the IT problems, or is"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1586.79,"endTime":1588.77,"body":"just generating more entropy?"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1589.64,"endTime":1594.17,"body":"Oh, yeah, it"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1589.64,"endTime":1594.17,"body":"depends a lot on the tool. But"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1594.23,"endTime":1599.81,"body":"it has the potential to solve"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1594.23,"endTime":1599.81,"body":"some many IT problems now. Never"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1599.81,"endTime":1602.99,"body":"all of them come out. Let's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1599.81,"endTime":1602.99,"body":"let's not kid ourselves. But"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1603.17,"endTime":1608.72,"body":"there are there are really"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1603.17,"endTime":1608.72,"body":"what's citizen development is a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1608.72,"endTime":1615.71,"body":"useful reference right here,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1608.72,"endTime":1615.71,"body":"because two of the reasons why"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1615.71,"endTime":1619.52,"body":"we tend to find citizen"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1615.71,"endTime":1619.52,"body":"development attractive, by the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1619.52,"endTime":1622.37,"body":"way, both and both of them are"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1619.52,"endTime":1622.37,"body":"completely legitimate, they"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1622.37,"endTime":1625.73,"body":"really need to be a time to do"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1622.37,"endTime":1625.73,"body":"Reason number one is the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1625.73,"endTime":1629.87,"body":"application back blog, the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1625.73,"endTime":1629.87,"body":"talent gap, the fact that there"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1629.87,"endTime":1636.29,"body":"are, you know, on my side of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1629.87,"endTime":1636.29,"body":"Atlantic and yours, you're in"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1636.29,"endTime":1641.3,"body":"Europe, right? Yes, yes. I"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1636.29,"endTime":1641.3,"body":"Portugal, right."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1641.72,"endTime":1644.75,"body":"No, and it's always"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1641.72,"endTime":1644.75,"body":"in the UK. I'm in Berlin."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1645.5,"endTime":1649.94,"body":"Oh, okay."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1645.5,"endTime":1649.94,"body":"Great. Sorry, my mistake. I saw"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1649.94,"endTime":1653.6,"body":"Tiago and immediately thought,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1649.94,"endTime":1653.6,"body":"Portuguese name, but"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1654.86,"endTime":1658.58,"body":"we name yes."},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":1654.86,"endTime":1658.58,"body":"Absolutely. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1658.67,"endTime":1662.12,"body":"Okay. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1658.67,"endTime":1662.12,"body":"added up. So basically, we're"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1662.12,"endTime":1668.03,"body":"covering a lot of places. And in"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1662.12,"endTime":1668.03,"body":"on both sides of the Atlantic,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1668.06,"endTime":1675.29,"body":"there's a gap of about 600,000"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1668.06,"endTime":1675.29,"body":"IT jobs, they're not going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1675.29,"endTime":1680.15,"body":"get filled their people to fill"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1675.29,"endTime":1680.15,"body":"them. We have a talent gap, we"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1680.15,"endTime":1685.04,"body":"have a supply gap, therefore we"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1680.15,"endTime":1685.04,"body":"have an application gap. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1685.07,"endTime":1690.2,"body":"because of this, we need to find"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1685.07,"endTime":1690.2,"body":"a way to get more stuff built"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1690.2,"endTime":1695.99,"body":"with the resources we have. One"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1690.2,"endTime":1695.99,"body":"option was citizen development."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1696.02,"endTime":1699.17,"body":"In other words, increase the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1696.02,"endTime":1699.17,"body":"number of people that can build"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1699.17,"endTime":1703.97,"body":"applications by asking less of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1699.17,"endTime":1703.97,"body":"those applications possibly, or"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1703.97,"endTime":1707.99,"body":"using magic tools. That meant"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1703.97,"endTime":1707.99,"body":"that you didn't need as much"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1707.99,"endTime":1712.85,"body":"skill in order to create those"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1707.99,"endTime":1712.85,"body":"things. Now, that was that was"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1712.85,"endTime":1718.85,"body":"sort of a desperate hope. That"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1712.85,"endTime":1718.85,"body":"pays off from time to time, but"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1718.85,"endTime":1722.93,"body":"as much more modest results, but"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1718.85,"endTime":1722.93,"body":"it's not without help. But I"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1722.93,"endTime":1726.38,"body":"want to focus on the reason"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1722.93,"endTime":1726.38,"body":"here, we need to get more done."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1726.77,"endTime":1731.09,"body":"We need to get more stuff built"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1726.77,"endTime":1731.09,"body":"locode can absolutely in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1731.09,"endTime":1734.15,"body":"hands of professionals can"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1731.09,"endTime":1734.15,"body":"absolutely help with that."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1734.42,"endTime":1737.51,"body":"Almost everybody's lead code"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1734.42,"endTime":1737.51,"body":"platform in the hands of a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1737.51,"endTime":1741.74,"body":"professional can help them get"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1737.51,"endTime":1741.74,"body":"more done in less time than if"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1741.74,"endTime":1745.37,"body":"they were coding unless what"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1741.74,"endTime":1745.37,"body":"they've been asked to code is"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1745.37,"endTime":1748.94,"body":"really, really weird, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1745.37,"endTime":1748.94,"body":"hopefully weird and wonderful."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1749.39,"endTime":1754.49,"body":"But usually low code tools, take"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1749.39,"endTime":1754.49,"body":"away some freedom and give you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1754.49,"endTime":1758.39,"body":"back productivity in exchange"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1754.49,"endTime":1758.39,"body":"for it. And if it's not, they"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1758.39,"endTime":1761.18,"body":"didn't take away too much and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1758.39,"endTime":1761.18,"body":"you still get to produce the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1761.18,"endTime":1766.31,"body":"kind of results you need to very"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1761.18,"endTime":1766.31,"body":"happy trade off. It's the second"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1766.31,"endTime":1771.32,"body":"reason for citizen development"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1766.31,"endTime":1771.32,"body":"that's much much harder. I not"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1772.25,"endTime":1775.91,"body":"it's rare, but low code can help"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1772.25,"endTime":1775.91,"body":"with this but not non existent."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1776.42,"endTime":1784.22,"body":"And that problem is the fact"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1776.42,"endTime":1784.22,"body":"that mine melts only exist in"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1784.22,"endTime":1789.86,"body":"Star Trek. There's no mind"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1784.22,"endTime":1789.86,"body":"reading going on. That's just in"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1789.86,"endTime":1796.76,"body":"the movies and sci fi shows and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1789.86,"endTime":1796.76,"body":"books and so on. It's very hard"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1796.79,"endTime":1800.0,"body":"for those of us that are trained"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1796.79,"endTime":1800.0,"body":"to be technical software to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1800.0,"endTime":1804.68,"body":"Developers low code or high code"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1800.0,"endTime":1804.68,"body":"or what have you, to be able to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1804.68,"endTime":1808.55,"body":"read the mind of a business"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1804.68,"endTime":1808.55,"body":"person that has a problem that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1808.55,"endTime":1812.78,"body":"needs to be solved. It's also"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1808.55,"endTime":1812.78,"body":"very, very hard for that person"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1812.78,"endTime":1816.68,"body":"to describe what they need, or"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1812.78,"endTime":1816.68,"body":"what they want, or even the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1816.68,"endTime":1822.77,"body":"problem they have, in a way that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1816.68,"endTime":1822.77,"body":"you and I can act on to help"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1822.77,"endTime":1828.05,"body":"them. Which means when we get"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1822.77,"endTime":1828.05,"body":"involved in a project, it's not"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1828.05,"endTime":1835.1,"body":"an explanation. It's a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1828.05,"endTime":1835.1,"body":"negotiation. And if all parties"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1835.13,"endTime":1839.48,"body":"have a lot of goodwill, it"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1835.13,"endTime":1839.48,"body":"doesn't get nasty, but sometimes"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1839.48,"endTime":1844.73,"body":"it turns into an argument. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1839.48,"endTime":1844.73,"body":"that's just crazy. But that the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1844.73,"endTime":1848.72,"body":"appeal of citizen development is"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1844.73,"endTime":1848.72,"body":"if I'm a business person, and I"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1848.72,"endTime":1851.78,"body":"can build something for myself,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1848.72,"endTime":1851.78,"body":"I don't need to explain what I'm"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1851.78,"endTime":1857.51,"body":"doing to anyone. That's a very"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1851.78,"endTime":1857.51,"body":"attractive idea. Of course, the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1857.51,"endTime":1860.96,"body":"issue is in explaining it to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1857.51,"endTime":1860.96,"body":"someone, even another business"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1860.96,"endTime":1865.25,"body":"person, we might realise things"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1860.96,"endTime":1865.25,"body":"we hadn't thought of until we"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1865.25,"endTime":1869.99,"body":"set it out loud, or until a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1865.25,"endTime":1869.99,"body":"fresh pair of ears, you know,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1869.99,"endTime":1873.38,"body":"thought about it and asked a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1869.99,"endTime":1873.38,"body":"couple of questions that help to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1873.38,"endTime":1879.47,"body":"refine things nicely. It's good"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1873.38,"endTime":1879.47,"body":"to have people communicate a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1879.47,"endTime":1883.37,"body":"little bit, you've produced"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1879.47,"endTime":1883.37,"body":"better results in some cases. So"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1883.43,"endTime":1889.04,"body":"I think that logo can even help"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1883.43,"endTime":1889.04,"body":"with that. But the low code has"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1889.04,"endTime":1894.74,"body":"to focus on more than just"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1889.04,"endTime":1894.74,"body":"construction. If it's again, I'd"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1894.74,"endTime":1898.91,"body":"say 80 to 90% of low code"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1894.74,"endTime":1898.91,"body":"platforms out there are focused"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1898.91,"endTime":1904.34,"body":"solely on construction 10 to 20%"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1898.91,"endTime":1904.34,"body":"of them think beyond that. Those"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1904.34,"endTime":1907.46,"body":"are the ones you want to take a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1904.34,"endTime":1907.46,"body":"look at, because they might even"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1907.46,"endTime":1914.0,"body":"help you communicate with users"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1907.46,"endTime":1914.0,"body":"and business stakeholders and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1914.0,"endTime":1919.7,"body":"come up with a common set of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1914.0,"endTime":1919.7,"body":"design specifications, common"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1919.7,"endTime":1925.64,"body":"set of plans, even a common"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1919.7,"endTime":1925.64,"body":"review process where people get"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1925.64,"endTime":1928.58,"body":"together, look at what's being"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1925.64,"endTime":1928.58,"body":"built, figure out how to improve"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1928.58,"endTime":1932.93,"body":"it for the next iteration and so"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1928.58,"endTime":1932.93,"body":"on. There's a communication"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1932.93,"endTime":1936.95,"body":"issue, low code can help with"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1932.93,"endTime":1936.95,"body":"that low CO construction tools"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1936.95,"endTime":1943.37,"body":"won't help with that. But low"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1936.95,"endTime":1943.37,"body":"code platforms might. We're"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1943.37,"endTime":1946.61,"body":"certainly trying to do that."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1943.37,"endTime":1946.61,"body":"Other people are trying to do"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1946.61,"endTime":1948.47,"body":"that, too. It's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1950.72,"endTime":1953.33,"body":"that will solve the other"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1950.72,"endTime":1953.33,"body":"problem, it has to stick at"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1953.33,"endTime":1956.78,"body":"least in terms of building"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1953.33,"endTime":1956.78,"body":"things. I mean, will it help"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1956.78,"endTime":1960.56,"body":"with solving their integration"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1956.78,"endTime":1960.56,"body":"issues? Probably not integration"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1960.56,"endTime":1967.04,"body":"is as much about politics as it"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1960.56,"endTime":1967.04,"body":"is about protocols, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1967.04,"endTime":1971.63,"body":"priorities, and so on. So it is"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1967.04,"endTime":1971.63,"body":"going to have plenty of problems"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1971.63,"endTime":1976.1,"body":"to deal with. But we can get"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1971.63,"endTime":1976.1,"body":"past just the application"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1976.1,"endTime":1980.03,"body":"backlog and the communication"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1976.1,"endTime":1980.03,"body":"gap with the right kinds of low"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1980.03,"endTime":1985.19,"body":"code of purchase. I don't think"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1980.03,"endTime":1985.19,"body":"code integration works nearly as"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1985.19,"endTime":1988.61,"body":"well as some people claim it is."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1985.19,"endTime":1988.61,"body":"But yeah, those first few"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1988.61,"endTime":1991.88,"body":"things. I think we can do that."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":1988.61,"endTime":1991.88,"body":"I think we can do that."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1992.66,"endTime":1998.72,"body":"All right. It's"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1992.66,"endTime":1998.72,"body":"pretty good. Um, actually, I was"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1998.72,"endTime":2003.79,"body":"just thinking of what you just"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1998.72,"endTime":2003.79,"body":"said, about the integrations and"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2003.79,"endTime":2006.7,"body":"how hard they convenient and"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2003.79,"endTime":2006.7,"body":"that they are more politics than"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2006.7,"endTime":2008.32,"body":"anything else. It's so true."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2009.7,"endTime":2013.78,"body":"You know, I,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2009.7,"endTime":2013.78,"body":"here's, here's a red flag for me"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2013.78,"endTime":2018.67,"body":"when I look at a local platform,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2013.78,"endTime":2018.67,"body":"it's not, if they say we've got"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2018.67,"endTime":2021.94,"body":"hundreds of ready to use"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2018.67,"endTime":2021.94,"body":"connectors, you can treat them"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2021.94,"endTime":2027.25,"body":"like Lego bricks, snap them"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2021.94,"endTime":2027.25,"body":"together and magical habit. It's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2027.25,"endTime":2030.52,"body":"not that the having a lot of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2027.25,"endTime":2030.52,"body":"connectors is a bad thing. It's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2030.52,"endTime":2034.54,"body":"a good thing. It's a useful"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2030.52,"endTime":2034.54,"body":"thing. But thinking if that's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2034.54,"endTime":2038.95,"body":"one of the first things out of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2034.54,"endTime":2038.95,"body":"your mouth, it makes me think"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2039.55,"endTime":2044.65,"body":"that you probably started in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2039.55,"endTime":2044.65,"body":"wrong place, and you prioritise"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2044.65,"endTime":2051.31,"body":"the wrong stuff. Because if I"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2044.65,"endTime":2051.31,"body":"want to create, again, a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2051.31,"endTime":2057.43,"body":"personal application to scratch"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2051.31,"endTime":2057.43,"body":"at personal itch, a connector"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2057.43,"endTime":2062.44,"body":"that talks to my contacts in"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2057.43,"endTime":2062.44,"body":"Outlook Connector that talks to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2062.74,"endTime":2067.12,"body":"my accounts in Salesforce, an"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2062.74,"endTime":2067.12,"body":"account connector that accounts"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2067.33,"endTime":2074.56,"body":"or connects to a shared"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2067.33,"endTime":2074.56,"body":"calendar, or if I'm glueing,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2074.56,"endTime":2077.47,"body":"together three or four data"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2074.56,"endTime":2077.47,"body":"sources that I work with on a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2077.47,"endTime":2080.86,"body":"regular basis. Great, yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2077.47,"endTime":2080.86,"body":"can do that with canned"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2080.86,"endTime":2084.16,"body":"connectors coming from"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2080.86,"endTime":2084.16,"body":"somebody's library. But here's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2084.16,"endTime":2091.72,"body":"the key here. You have 100%"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2084.16,"endTime":2091.72,"body":"authority to touch that data."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2092.2,"endTime":2097.03,"body":"It's your data. The only thing"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2092.2,"endTime":2097.03,"body":"you have to care about is your"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2097.03,"endTime":2104.53,"body":"stuff. Now if I curate our ERP"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2097.03,"endTime":2104.53,"body":"system. And you curate our"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2104.53,"endTime":2109.21,"body":"marketing automation platform,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2104.53,"endTime":2109.21,"body":"email campaigns, digital"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2109.36,"endTime":2115.42,"body":"marketing, and you want to log"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2109.36,"endTime":2115.42,"body":"activity or outcomes or"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2115.42,"endTime":2119.53,"body":"something like that into my"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2115.42,"endTime":2119.53,"body":"environment, could even be lower"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2119.53,"endTime":2122.59,"body":"stakes than ERP, it could be CRM"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2119.53,"endTime":2122.59,"body":"or something like that. But"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2122.59,"endTime":2123.01,"body":"still,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2124.12,"endTime":2125.11,"body":"I don't know you."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2126.58,"endTime":2129.13,"body":"Maybe company"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2126.58,"endTime":2129.13,"body":"picnics or meetings here and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2129.13,"endTime":2132.94,"body":"there, you seem like a nice guy."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2129.13,"endTime":2132.94,"body":"But I don't know that you know"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2132.94,"endTime":2137.59,"body":"how to work with Salesforce, I"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2132.94,"endTime":2137.59,"body":"definitely know that you don't"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2137.59,"endTime":2143.08,"body":"know how we in my team use"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2137.59,"endTime":2143.08,"body":"Salesforce, we got to teach you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2143.08,"endTime":2147.25,"body":"a lot if we're going to let you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2143.08,"endTime":2147.25,"body":"open up our file cabinets and go"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2147.25,"endTime":2152.11,"body":"through them, you know, with a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2147.25,"endTime":2152.11,"body":"flashlight in your mouth and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2152.11,"endTime":2157.78,"body":"some gloves. I don't like that."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2152.11,"endTime":2157.78,"body":"I like that idea very much at"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2157.81,"endTime":2162.52,"body":"all. And again, it's not a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2157.81,"endTime":2162.52,"body":"question of bad faith. It's a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2162.52,"endTime":2168.4,"body":"question of, there's more to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2162.52,"endTime":2168.4,"body":"this than somebody snapping"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2168.4,"endTime":2172.84,"body":"together to Lego bricks, their"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2168.4,"endTime":2172.84,"body":"policies, their procedures,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2172.84,"endTime":2175.66,"body":"there are permissions, there"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2172.84,"endTime":2175.66,"body":"might be compliance concerns,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2175.66,"endTime":2178.12,"body":"there might be an audit trail"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2175.66,"endTime":2178.12,"body":"that needs to be followed."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2178.51,"endTime":2182.17,"body":"Integration at the corporate"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2178.51,"endTime":2182.17,"body":"level is hard. And it's not hard"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2182.17,"endTime":2185.2,"body":"because people are jerks. It's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2182.17,"endTime":2185.2,"body":"hard because the world is more"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2185.2,"endTime":2191.2,"body":"complicated than we often think"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2185.2,"endTime":2191.2,"body":"about. So it actually does"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2191.2,"endTime":2194.05,"body":"require us to do some"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2191.2,"endTime":2194.05,"body":"negotiation. In fact, that might"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2194.05,"endTime":2198.07,"body":"be we might be better off if I"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2194.05,"endTime":2198.07,"body":"write a small automation script"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2198.07,"endTime":2203.47,"body":"or business process, and make"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2198.07,"endTime":2203.47,"body":"that available to you, as you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2203.47,"endTime":2208.24,"body":"write an application that needs"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2203.47,"endTime":2208.24,"body":"to talk to my CRM data. So you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2208.24,"endTime":2211.57,"body":"have a leak, you want to pump it"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2208.24,"endTime":2211.57,"body":"directly into Salesforce, I love"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2211.57,"endTime":2215.2,"body":"that. So I'm going to give you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2211.57,"endTime":2215.2,"body":"something that you can call as"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2215.2,"endTime":2221.44,"body":"one rest method. And it'll use"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2215.2,"endTime":2221.44,"body":"what whatever scripting facility"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2221.44,"endTime":2224.41,"body":"I want to use within my"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2221.44,"endTime":2224.41,"body":"environment or third party"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2224.41,"endTime":2227.86,"body":"facility that I want to use"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2224.41,"endTime":2227.86,"body":"within my environment that puts"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2227.86,"endTime":2229.84,"body":"the right things in the right"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2227.86,"endTime":2229.84,"body":"places under the right"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2229.84,"endTime":2234.67,"body":"conditions, you just call it"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2229.84,"endTime":2234.67,"body":"magic black box. That works out"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2234.67,"endTime":2238.3,"body":"really, really well. No one's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2234.67,"endTime":2238.3,"body":"got that in their toolbox of 500"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2238.3,"endTime":2242.17,"body":"connectors. That's something you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2238.3,"endTime":2242.17,"body":"and I, and we as an"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2242.17,"endTime":2247.39,"body":"organisation, curate, we create"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2242.17,"endTime":2247.39,"body":"it, we evolve it, we look out"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2247.39,"endTime":2253.09,"body":"for it. It's part of what makes"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2247.39,"endTime":2253.09,"body":"our organisation special. So I"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2253.09,"endTime":2258.97,"body":"think and we negotiated it and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2253.09,"endTime":2258.97,"body":"created it together. And that is"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2258.97,"endTime":2264.52,"body":"what integration at the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2258.97,"endTime":2264.52,"body":"enterprise level is like, if an"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2264.52,"endTime":2268.78,"body":"application if a low code"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2264.52,"endTime":2268.78,"body":"platform thinks that integration"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2268.78,"endTime":2272.89,"body":"at the enterprise level is snap"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2268.78,"endTime":2272.89,"body":"this to this and you're done."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2273.64,"endTime":2276.7,"body":"You're probably thinking of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2273.64,"endTime":2276.7,"body":"wrong tools."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2277.419,"endTime":2279.729,"body":"Or getting ready"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2277.419,"endTime":2279.729,"body":"for a big headache ahead of him."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2280.75,"endTime":2284.38,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2280.75,"endTime":2284.38,"body":"But again, that's that that is"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2284.41,"endTime":2288.85,"body":"aimed at one person scratching"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2284.41,"endTime":2288.85,"body":"one inch. And, again, if that's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2288.88,"endTime":2292.54,"body":"all your application has to do,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2288.88,"endTime":2292.54,"body":"yeah, use that tool for that."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2292.75,"endTime":2296.5,"body":"For the love of God, don't use"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2292.75,"endTime":2296.5,"body":"it for more than that. I'm"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2296.5,"endTime":2296.89,"body":"saying"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2297.88,"endTime":2302.32,"body":"he has a purpose"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2297.88,"endTime":2302.32,"body":"has a purpose, are about to what"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2302.32,"endTime":2302.83,"body":"do you think?"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":2303.55,"endTime":2308.62,"body":"I was just thinking"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":2303.55,"endTime":2308.62,"body":"about? So basically a question"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":2308.62,"endTime":2313.69,"body":"for for Mike. But, Mike, how do"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":2308.62,"endTime":2313.69,"body":"you think that the business"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":2313.69,"endTime":2320.26,"body":"might might perceive them low"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":2313.69,"endTime":2320.26,"body":"codes, in the sense of, it's not"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":2320.26,"endTime":2324.16,"body":"a silver bullet. So all these"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":2320.26,"endTime":2324.16,"body":"challenges that you're raising,"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":2324.16,"endTime":2327.94,"body":"that they are still there? Can"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":2324.16,"endTime":2327.94,"body":"it be that business just might"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":2329.5,"endTime":2334.09,"body":"then give it too much value"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":2329.5,"endTime":2334.09,"body":"thinking that it's gonna solve"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":2334.09,"endTime":2334.75,"body":"everything,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2335.11,"endTime":2337.45,"body":"under help"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2335.11,"endTime":2337.45,"body":"with a lot of things if it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2337.45,"endTime":2342.76,"body":"done well. So at the very, very"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2337.45,"endTime":2342.76,"body":"least, it and I'm using it as an"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2342.76,"endTime":2346.03,"body":"umbrella term now to mean all"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2342.76,"endTime":2346.03,"body":"the technical people employed by"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2346.03,"endTime":2348.82,"body":"the organisation as opposed to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2346.03,"endTime":2348.82,"body":"all the business people, I don't"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2348.82,"endTime":2352.0,"body":"necessarily mean that people who"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2348.82,"endTime":2352.0,"body":"maintain the infrastructure or"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2352.0,"endTime":2356.86,"body":"evolve the infrastructure. I'm"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2352.0,"endTime":2356.86,"body":"also including developers, it if"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2356.86,"endTime":2360.4,"body":"we're talking to technical"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2356.86,"endTime":2360.4,"body":"audiences, there are people that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2360.4,"endTime":2363.07,"body":"build solutions, build"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2360.4,"endTime":2363.07,"body":"applications, there may be a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2363.07,"endTime":2365.35,"body":"business process team, they"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2363.07,"endTime":2365.35,"body":"don't think of themselves"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2365.35,"endTime":2369.13,"body":"society. For our little"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2365.35,"endTime":2369.13,"body":"discussion right here right now"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2369.13,"endTime":2375.19,"body":"for the next minute or two."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2369.13,"endTime":2375.19,"body":"There it. Alright. So yes, low"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2375.19,"endTime":2379.99,"body":"code is going to help it be more"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2375.19,"endTime":2379.99,"body":"responsive to business because,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2380.05,"endTime":2385.66,"body":"again, a lot of the stuff that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2380.05,"endTime":2385.66,"body":"slows them down. They don't have"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2385.66,"endTime":2390.67,"body":"to deal with that. That's a good"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2385.66,"endTime":2390.67,"body":"thing. Or they don't have to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2390.67,"endTime":2394.54,"body":"deal with it. It's done for them"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2390.67,"endTime":2394.54,"body":"automatically in a systematised"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2394.54,"endTime":2398.38,"body":"way, so everybody has to agree"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2394.54,"endTime":2398.38,"body":"that it's okay for it to happen"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2398.38,"endTime":2402.43,"body":"in that systematised way But"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2398.38,"endTime":2402.43,"body":"yeah, it's gonna help them build"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2402.43,"endTime":2405.64,"body":"more in less time and do a lot"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2402.43,"endTime":2405.64,"body":"for them. So they don't have to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2405.64,"endTime":2410.29,"body":"do everything by hand. It's like"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2405.64,"endTime":2410.29,"body":"using power tools or labour"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2410.29,"endTime":2416.35,"body":"saving devices in the kitchen."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2410.29,"endTime":2416.35,"body":"It's going to help them get more"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2416.35,"endTime":2420.46,"body":"stuff done in less time with"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2416.35,"endTime":2420.46,"body":"more predictable, sufficient"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2420.64,"endTime":2425.35,"body":"results. You're not going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2420.64,"endTime":2425.35,"body":"create grand art with code,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2426.25,"endTime":2430.81,"body":"which can happen sometimes, but"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2426.25,"endTime":2430.81,"body":"everything else. Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2430.81,"endTime":2433.84,"body":"going to help. It's not going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2430.81,"endTime":2433.84,"body":"solve, but it's going to help."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2433.9,"endTime":2439.54,"body":"And that might be enough. Here's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2433.9,"endTime":2439.54,"body":"the key. No, we're not going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2439.54,"endTime":2444.37,"body":"win hearts and minds and the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2439.54,"endTime":2444.37,"body":"love the business community as"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2444.37,"endTime":2449.98,"body":"technical people if that's all"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2444.37,"endTime":2449.98,"body":"we focus on, if we use the right"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2449.98,"endTime":2454.24,"body":"kinds of logo tools to improve"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2449.98,"endTime":2454.24,"body":"our communication, our project"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2454.24,"endTime":2460.0,"body":"management and our transparency,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2454.24,"endTime":2460.0,"body":"our collaboration with business."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2460.9,"endTime":2465.43,"body":"Yeah, there's still a lot we can"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2460.9,"endTime":2465.43,"body":"do with low code to improve the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2465.43,"endTime":2468.19,"body":"organisation the total"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2465.43,"endTime":2468.19,"body":"throughput of the organisation."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2469.42,"endTime":2473.38,"body":"And the right kind of low code"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2469.42,"endTime":2473.38,"body":"tools save us an incredible"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2473.38,"endTime":2480.46,"body":"amount of time. I'll give you a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2473.38,"endTime":2480.46,"body":"perfect example. What if we are"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2480.46,"endTime":2483.88,"body":"able to create a business"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2480.46,"endTime":2483.88,"body":"process diagram that is"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2483.88,"endTime":2488.65,"body":"understandable by business"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2483.88,"endTime":2488.65,"body":"people, but the understandable"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2488.65,"endTime":2494.86,"body":"business process diagram is the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2488.65,"endTime":2494.86,"body":"flowchart. With a lot of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2495.01,"endTime":2498.22,"body":"environments, you've got one"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2495.01,"endTime":2498.22,"body":"diagram you're going to create"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2498.22,"endTime":2500.8,"body":"to explain what it is you're"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2498.22,"endTime":2500.8,"body":"going to do and a different"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2500.8,"endTime":2505.51,"body":"diagram you have to create to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2500.8,"endTime":2505.51,"body":"actually build the workflow"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2505.51,"endTime":2511.03,"body":"logic. The latter one you can do"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2505.51,"endTime":2511.03,"body":"automatically. In other words, I"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2511.03,"endTime":2516.04,"body":"could sketch it out in"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2511.03,"endTime":2516.04,"body":"somebodies workflow ma modeller,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2516.04,"endTime":2519.94,"body":"and then it will generate the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2516.04,"endTime":2519.94,"body":"application that we need. But"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2519.94,"endTime":2523.57,"body":"the diagram that explains what"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2519.94,"endTime":2523.57,"body":"we're doing that happens by"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2523.57,"endTime":2527.02,"body":"hand, there might not be a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2523.57,"endTime":2527.02,"body":"relationship between the two"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2527.02,"endTime":2531.43,"body":"diagrams at all. What if they"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2527.02,"endTime":2531.43,"body":"were one diagram? What if it"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2531.43,"endTime":2534.55,"body":"were actionable? And"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2531.43,"endTime":2534.55,"body":"understandable? At the same"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2534.55,"endTime":2540.43,"body":"time, we can get a lot more done"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2534.55,"endTime":2540.43,"body":"that way. What if you and I can"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2540.43,"endTime":2547.45,"body":"sit down together, and we can"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2540.43,"endTime":2547.45,"body":"create the look. And in broad"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2547.45,"endTime":2550.93,"body":"strokes, the behaviour of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2547.45,"endTime":2550.93,"body":"application you want me to build"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2550.93,"endTime":2555.01,"body":"for you, in order to build an"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2550.93,"endTime":2555.01,"body":"example of what you want. So I"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2555.01,"endTime":2558.43,"body":"can see if I can try something,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2555.01,"endTime":2558.43,"body":"you can tell me where I'm wrong."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2558.73,"endTime":2563.59,"body":"And within about an hour's time,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2558.73,"endTime":2563.59,"body":"we can agree that this is what"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2563.59,"endTime":2566.14,"body":"it should look like this is what"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2563.59,"endTime":2566.14,"body":"should happen when you click"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2566.14,"endTime":2569.47,"body":"this button, and so on we"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2566.14,"endTime":2569.47,"body":"create, this could be a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2569.47,"endTime":2575.02,"body":"wireframe or something that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2569.47,"endTime":2575.02,"body":"looks a lot nicer than that. But"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2575.02,"endTime":2577.78,"body":"yeah, if we look at low code"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2575.02,"endTime":2577.78,"body":"stuff that is not just about"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2577.78,"endTime":2581.59,"body":"construction, but it's also"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2577.78,"endTime":2581.59,"body":"about collaboration, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2581.59,"endTime":2586.06,"body":"cooperation and communication."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2581.59,"endTime":2586.06,"body":"Yeah, that's going to solve a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2586.06,"endTime":2590.68,"body":"lot of IT problems that haven't"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2586.06,"endTime":2590.68,"body":"been touched in the past."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2591.46,"endTime":2596.98,"body":"Because it is not known for"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2591.46,"endTime":2596.98,"body":"being good at communication or"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2597.01,"endTime":2600.76,"body":"or good at providing"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2597.01,"endTime":2600.76,"body":"communication or understanding"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2600.76,"endTime":2604.69,"body":"communication. That's the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2600.76,"endTime":2604.69,"body":"organization's fault as a whole."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2604.72,"endTime":2609.4,"body":"It's not just it, but but at the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2604.72,"endTime":2609.4,"body":"same time, you know, we use the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2609.4,"endTime":2614.26,"body":"right Lopo platforms, platforms,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2609.4,"endTime":2614.26,"body":"not just tools. We address more"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2614.26,"endTime":2619.42,"body":"than just construction, we"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2614.26,"endTime":2619.42,"body":"addressed collaboration, long"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2619.42,"endTime":2622.78,"body":"winded way of saying you use the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2619.42,"endTime":2622.78,"body":"right tools than the answer,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2622.78,"endTime":2623.2,"body":"yes."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2625.3,"endTime":2628.72,"body":"Okay, could Luke"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2625.3,"endTime":2628.72,"body":"code continuous focus on"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2628.72,"endTime":2633.85,"body":"automation? Bring any sort of"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2628.72,"endTime":2633.85,"body":"unwanted consequences? Could it"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2633.85,"endTime":2635.77,"body":"be become too focused?"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2637.39,"endTime":2640.48,"body":"I actually am"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2637.39,"endTime":2640.48,"body":"very, very wary about"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2640.75,"endTime":2648.82,"body":"automation. Because it is far"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2640.75,"endTime":2648.82,"body":"too easy to beautifully automate"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2648.85,"endTime":2650.35,"body":"a terrible process."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2651.94,"endTime":2654.4,"body":"It's a good one."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2651.94,"endTime":2654.4,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2656.56,"endTime":2659.89,"body":"And the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2656.56,"endTime":2659.89,"body":"problem is, unless you live this"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2659.89,"endTime":2664.42,"body":"stuff, it doesn't occur to you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2659.89,"endTime":2664.42,"body":"that automation and process and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2664.42,"endTime":2669.04,"body":"workflow are three different"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2664.42,"endTime":2669.04,"body":"things. And again, I don't"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2669.04,"endTime":2672.85,"body":"expect somebody that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2669.04,"endTime":2672.85,"body":"live this all the time to care"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2672.85,"endTime":2677.02,"body":"about the difference between"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2672.85,"endTime":2677.02,"body":"processes and automation. But,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2677.5,"endTime":2680.62,"body":"you know, there are a number of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2677.5,"endTime":2680.62,"body":"wonderful tools out there from"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2680.62,"endTime":2684.22,"body":"RPA vendors, robotic process"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2680.62,"endTime":2684.22,"body":"automation vendors, you know,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2684.25,"endTime":2688.15,"body":"the UiPath, blue prism"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2684.25,"endTime":2688.15,"body":"automation anywhere. There are"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2688.15,"endTime":2694.6,"body":"others, but those those are the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2688.15,"endTime":2694.6,"body":"three rock solid dudes. They,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2695.38,"endTime":2699.73,"body":"they do good work, but they'd"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2695.38,"endTime":2699.73,"body":"actually be the first to tell"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2699.73,"endTime":2703.3,"body":"you that They're not in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2699.73,"endTime":2703.3,"body":"business process modelling and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2704.05,"endTime":2707.83,"body":"automation business. But they're"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2704.05,"endTime":2707.83,"body":"really automating our processes."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2707.86,"endTime":2716.26,"body":"They're automating activity"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2707.86,"endTime":2716.26,"body":"tasks, there should be our TA or"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2716.26,"endTime":2720.88,"body":"RA or something like that, as"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2716.26,"endTime":2720.88,"body":"opposed to RPA. But they have"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2720.88,"endTime":2727.03,"body":"the name that you really should"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2720.88,"endTime":2727.03,"body":"combine that sort of thing. with"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2727.06,"endTime":2729.94,"body":"something that looks at the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2727.06,"endTime":2729.94,"body":"business process, what are the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2729.94,"endTime":2733.24,"body":"assets, we need to get this"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2729.94,"endTime":2733.24,"body":"done? What are the goals we"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2733.24,"endTime":2736.96,"body":"have? What are the How will we"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2733.24,"endTime":2736.96,"body":"measure whether we accomplish"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2736.96,"endTime":2742.0,"body":"it, what should be done, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2736.96,"endTime":2742.0,"body":"then we defer to rpa, or"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2742.42,"endTime":2747.28,"body":"scripting, or automation tools,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2742.42,"endTime":2747.28,"body":"or any of a number of different"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2747.28,"endTime":2751.93,"body":"things that or even code to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2747.28,"endTime":2751.93,"body":"actually execute the things that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2751.93,"endTime":2760.18,"body":"the process tells us? It's time"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2751.93,"endTime":2760.18,"body":"to do? Yeah, it's, if all we"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2760.18,"endTime":2764.89,"body":"focus on is automation, one of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2760.18,"endTime":2764.89,"body":"two things happen, we will"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2766.42,"endTime":2770.8,"body":"slavish li try harder and harder"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2766.42,"endTime":2770.8,"body":"to automate what might be bad"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2770.8,"endTime":2777.28,"body":"processes, or what we'll have is"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2770.8,"endTime":2777.28,"body":"working very hard to automate"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2777.94,"endTime":2782.65,"body":"implicit processes. Maybe"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2777.94,"endTime":2782.65,"body":"they're not bad, but they're in"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2782.65,"endTime":2788.08,"body":"our heads. In other words, what"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2782.65,"endTime":2788.08,"body":"to do gets automated, why we're"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2788.08,"endTime":2794.8,"body":"doing it gets lost if somebody"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2788.08,"endTime":2794.8,"body":"leaves the organisation, or it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2794.8,"endTime":2797.92,"body":"manual and has to be read in"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2794.8,"endTime":2797.92,"body":"order for you to understand"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2797.92,"endTime":2801.07,"body":"which automation to kick off and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2797.92,"endTime":2801.07,"body":"what to do with the results when"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2801.07,"endTime":2807.88,"body":"it's done. I yeah, I have a"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2801.07,"endTime":2807.88,"body":"problem with that. I think that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2807.88,"endTime":2812.11,"body":"looking at automation, and only"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2807.88,"endTime":2812.11,"body":"automation is a very incomplete"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2812.2,"endTime":2816.52,"body":"picture. So you have to think of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2812.2,"endTime":2816.52,"body":"the process and think of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2816.52,"endTime":2820.63,"body":"data assets as well. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2816.52,"endTime":2820.63,"body":"there's subject matter expertise"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2820.63,"endTime":2825.4,"body":"that matters a lot in the world"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2820.63,"endTime":2825.4,"body":"of process management, it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2825.4,"endTime":2828.94,"body":"thinking about the process"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2825.4,"endTime":2828.94,"body":"first, and then determining"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2828.94,"endTime":2832.87,"body":"which assets you need, and which"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2828.94,"endTime":2832.87,"body":"automated bursts of activity"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2832.87,"endTime":2838.72,"body":"should be created to support the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2832.87,"endTime":2838.72,"body":"process. Doing it backwards,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2839.86,"endTime":2843.13,"body":"involves a lot of risk. The same"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2839.86,"endTime":2843.13,"body":"kind of thing happens in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2843.13,"endTime":2847.0,"body":"world of business intelligence,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2843.13,"endTime":2847.0,"body":"I can't tell you how often"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2847.63,"endTime":2850.99,"body":"people have just said, Okay,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2847.63,"endTime":2850.99,"body":"I've got this data, let's see"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2850.99,"endTime":2855.46,"body":"what I can find from it. By"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2850.99,"endTime":2855.46,"body":"doing ad hoc analysis, after ad"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2855.46,"endTime":2859.39,"body":"hoc analysis without really"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2855.46,"endTime":2859.39,"body":"understanding the data that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2859.39,"endTime":2864.79,"body":"they're analysing in the first"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2859.39,"endTime":2864.79,"body":"place. They might draw crazy,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2865.06,"endTime":2867.88,"body":"they might occasionally come up"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2865.06,"endTime":2867.88,"body":"with something no one had"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2867.88,"endTime":2870.61,"body":"thought of, but more often than"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2867.88,"endTime":2870.61,"body":"not, they'll draw crazy"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2870.61,"endTime":2873.46,"body":"conclusions because they are"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2870.61,"endTime":2873.46,"body":"grounded in the subject matter."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2874.18,"endTime":2879.52,"body":"It's really easy to focus on"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2874.18,"endTime":2879.52,"body":"cool tools, without thinking"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2879.52,"endTime":2883.0,"body":"through, why you're using them"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2879.52,"endTime":2883.0,"body":"in the first place."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2883.42,"endTime":2886.75,"body":"That is quite an"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2883.42,"endTime":2886.75,"body":"interesting, I did like the the"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2886.75,"endTime":2888.88,"body":"example of the business"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2886.75,"endTime":2888.88,"body":"intelligence kind of makes you"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2888.88,"endTime":2892.45,"body":"think we have a set of data,"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2888.88,"endTime":2892.45,"body":"let's look for patterns. Okay."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2892.48,"endTime":2895.03,"body":"Some patterns just happen"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2892.48,"endTime":2895.03,"body":"because they happen. They don't"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2895.03,"endTime":2899.53,"body":"have any meaning behind it. Or"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":2895.03,"endTime":2899.53,"body":"if"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2899.56,"endTime":2904.24,"body":"Yeah, okay."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2899.56,"endTime":2904.24,"body":"Well, it's it's still it's 2020."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2904.24,"endTime":2908.14,"body":"It's the beginning of 2022. If"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2904.24,"endTime":2908.14,"body":"someone's listening to this next"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2908.14,"endTime":2911.98,"body":"year, hopefully the whole"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2908.14,"endTime":2911.98,"body":"pandemic thing will be over."},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2911.98,"endTime":2917.29,"body":"Yes. But yeah, this happened"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2911.98,"endTime":2917.29,"body":"more in 2020 and 21. But there"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2917.29,"endTime":2924.34,"body":"were countless armchair"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2917.29,"endTime":2924.34,"body":"epidemiologists who had it, who"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2924.34,"endTime":2928.87,"body":"were business intelligence,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2924.34,"endTime":2928.87,"body":"people that just love to be able"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2928.87,"endTime":2932.5,"body":"to get at crunch numbers and"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2928.87,"endTime":2932.5,"body":"say, actually, what's happening"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2932.5,"endTime":2938.8,"body":"is this without understanding"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2932.5,"endTime":2938.8,"body":"how viruses work, or how, you"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2938.8,"endTime":2945.34,"body":"know, without knowing things"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2938.8,"endTime":2945.34,"body":"that doctors know, it's not just"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2945.34,"endTime":2948.67,"body":"about data, there is a certain"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2945.34,"endTime":2948.67,"body":"sense of subject matter"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2948.67,"endTime":2954.55,"body":"expertise that matters. Data"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2948.67,"endTime":2954.55,"body":"Analysis contributes a lot to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2954.55,"endTime":2959.62,"body":"human knowledge, but not without"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2954.55,"endTime":2959.62,"body":"some knowledge to know what to"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2959.62,"endTime":2964.09,"body":"do with the data in the first"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2959.62,"endTime":2964.09,"body":"place. So sometimes wonderful"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2964.09,"endTime":2969.28,"body":"things happen. But a lot of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2964.09,"endTime":2969.28,"body":"people, basically because"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2969.28,"endTime":2971.95,"body":"particularly in the first year"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2969.28,"endTime":2971.95,"body":"of a pandemic, when there were"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2971.98,"endTime":2976.42,"body":"no vaccines, there were lots of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2971.98,"endTime":2976.42,"body":"lock downs. You know, what am I"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2976.42,"endTime":2979.39,"body":"going to do? Well, this data is"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2976.42,"endTime":2979.39,"body":"publicly available. Let's see"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2979.39,"endTime":2984.61,"body":"what I can figure out a lot of"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2979.39,"endTime":2984.61,"body":"crazy inferences happened that"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2984.61,"endTime":2988.72,"body":"that that was more 2020 than"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2984.61,"endTime":2988.72,"body":"last year and certainly more"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2988.72,"endTime":2995.59,"body":"than this year, but you know,"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2988.72,"endTime":2995.59,"body":"it's a big obvious example. You"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2995.59,"endTime":2999.61,"body":"got to got to know what you're"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2995.59,"endTime":2999.61,"body":"doing in order to handle the"},{"speaker":"Mike Fitzmaurice","startTime":2999.64,"endTime":3001.56,"body":"mechanic Parts of it well,"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":3001.95,"endTime":3006.42,"body":"make sense makes"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":3001.95,"endTime":3006.42,"body":"total sense. Jaggu anything you"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":3006.42,"endTime":3007.08,"body":"would like the head?"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":3007.41,"endTime":3010.26,"body":"Don't just just"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":3007.41,"endTime":3010.26,"body":"love that example, Mike. That's"},{"speaker":"Tiago Neves","startTime":3010.26,"endTime":3010.5,"body":"all."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":3013.889,"endTime":3017.219,"body":"Okay guys, on that"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":3013.889,"endTime":3017.219,"body":"last note then we end today's"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":3017.219,"endTime":3021.389,"body":"podcast. Thank you very much"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":3017.219,"endTime":3021.389,"body":"Mike Integra for joining us. I"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":3021.389,"endTime":3024.659,"body":"bid love your company like"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":3021.389,"endTime":3024.659,"body":"amazing. I would also like to"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":3024.659,"endTime":3027.539,"body":"send a big thank you to everyone"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":3024.659,"endTime":3027.539,"body":"who is listening and hope you"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":3027.539,"endTime":3030.989,"body":"can join us on our next episode"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":3027.539,"endTime":3030.989,"body":"of high tech local podcast where"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":3030.989,"endTime":3034.349,"body":"we will always talk about more"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":3030.989,"endTime":3034.349,"body":"topics about the tech universe."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":3034.379,"endTime":3036.359,"body":"See you soon. Bye, everyone."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3036.539,"endTime":3039.599,"body":"Outstanding. What a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3036.539,"endTime":3039.599,"body":"pleasure. She is. Bye bye"}]}