{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":21.9,"endTime":23.67,"body":"Hello and welcome"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":21.9,"endTime":23.67,"body":"to the high tech low code"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":23.67,"endTime":27.06,"body":"podcast. In this episode of the"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":23.67,"endTime":27.06,"body":"podcast, we are joined by Ian"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":27.06,"endTime":29.37,"body":"Taylor has our co-host. How are"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":27.06,"endTime":29.37,"body":"you doing, Ian?"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":29.67,"endTime":31.2,"body":"I'm doing very well."},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":29.67,"endTime":31.2,"body":"Thank you, Mario."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":31.69,"endTime":34.18,"body":"Today's topic is"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":31.69,"endTime":34.18,"body":"cybersecurity. And for that we"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":34.18,"endTime":36.91,"body":"have the pleasure of having as"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":34.18,"endTime":36.91,"body":"our guest speakers Francesco"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":36.91,"endTime":40.75,"body":"Cipollone and Owanate Bestman."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":36.91,"endTime":40.75,"body":"Francesco is an executive,"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":41.02,"endTime":44.47,"body":"public speaker, published author"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":41.02,"endTime":44.47,"body":"and international judge, host of"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":44.47,"endTime":47.92,"body":"the CSPC podcast and has held"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":44.47,"endTime":47.92,"body":"several roles ranging from a"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":47.92,"endTime":50.86,"body":"head of application security to"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":47.92,"endTime":50.86,"body":"head of security architecture,"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":51.25,"endTime":53.95,"body":"also armed with an extensive"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":51.25,"endTime":53.95,"body":"experience related to the"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":53.95,"endTime":56.68,"body":"implementation of security"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":53.95,"endTime":56.68,"body":"across multi cloud providers"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":56.68,"endTime":61.63,"body":"such as Amazon, AWS, Microsoft"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":56.68,"endTime":61.63,"body":"Azure and Google Cloud. Owanate"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":61.69,"endTime":64.12,"body":"is a successful recruiter,"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":61.69,"endTime":64.12,"body":"passionate about assisting"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":64.12,"endTime":67.15,"body":"security leaders and security"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":64.12,"endTime":67.15,"body":"practitioners alike to meet"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":67.15,"endTime":69.79,"body":"their career and business goals"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":67.15,"endTime":69.79,"body":"with an excellent record of"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":69.79,"endTime":72.37,"body":"staffing high profile regulatory"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":69.79,"endTime":72.37,"body":"and commercial driven"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":72.37,"endTime":75.64,"body":"cybersecurity and technology"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":72.37,"endTime":75.64,"body":"risk programmes globally. Thank"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":75.64,"endTime":77.95,"body":"you very much, both for giving"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":75.64,"endTime":77.95,"body":"us this opportunity to have a"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":77.95,"endTime":80.89,"body":"chat with you. I would like to"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":77.95,"endTime":80.89,"body":"start by asking how are you and"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":80.89,"endTime":83.14,"body":"if you'd like to give the"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":80.89,"endTime":83.14,"body":"listeners intro about yourself?"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":83.73,"endTime":87.48,"body":"Go first I'm"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":83.73,"endTime":87.48,"body":"on. I'm very good. It's been a"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":87.75,"endTime":91.23,"body":"good week, good month, and no"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":87.75,"endTime":91.23,"body":"complaints on my part"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":91.23,"endTime":93.87,"body":"whatsoever. I appreciate the"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":91.23,"endTime":93.87,"body":"invitation to speak to your"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":93.87,"endTime":97.95,"body":"audience. In terms of what I do,"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":93.87,"endTime":97.95,"body":"I'm the founder of Bestman"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":97.95,"endTime":102.96,"body":"Solutions, which is a"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":97.95,"endTime":102.96,"body":"recruitment firm dedicated to"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":102.99,"endTime":107.16,"body":"assisting CISOs and security"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":102.99,"endTime":107.16,"body":"practitioners within the field"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":107.19,"endTime":113.13,"body":"of hiring. So I specialise in"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":107.19,"endTime":113.13,"body":"placing individuals in technical"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":113.13,"endTime":116.4,"body":"positions such as security"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":113.13,"endTime":116.4,"body":"architecture, and also non"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":116.4,"endTime":119.22,"body":"technical security positions"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":116.4,"endTime":119.22,"body":"such as Policy Governance"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":119.22,"endTime":123.21,"body":"assurance, what we call GRC."},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":119.22,"endTime":123.21,"body":"Awaken a global capacity"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":123.21,"endTime":127.2,"body":"primarily within the mid to"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":123.21,"endTime":127.2,"body":"senior market. But I also spend"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":127.2,"endTime":130.56,"body":"a lot of time advising maybe"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":127.2,"endTime":130.56,"body":"rookies trying to get into the"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":130.56,"endTime":134.76,"body":"field and location, what they"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":130.56,"endTime":134.76,"body":"should do, and what good looks"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":134.76,"endTime":139.65,"body":"like I also spend time speaking"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":134.76,"endTime":139.65,"body":"to see souls to advise them of"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":139.65,"endTime":143.1,"body":"the higher needs and how the"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":139.65,"endTime":143.1,"body":"market might impact the"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":143.58,"endTime":146.25,"body":"headcount goals and plans moving"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":143.58,"endTime":146.25,"body":"forward."},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":147.38,"endTime":149.66,"body":"Hey, Mario,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":147.38,"endTime":149.66,"body":"hey Ian, and how you doing?"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":149.0,"endTime":151.97,"body":"Good, thank you."},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":152.53,"endTime":156.01,"body":"I won't"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":152.53,"endTime":156.01,"body":"list my stuff. Because it's too"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":156.01,"endTime":159.55,"body":"long. I'm heading up the cloud"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":156.01,"endTime":159.55,"body":"secure lines for UK not and I'm"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":159.55,"endTime":163.15,"body":"the podcast, as well. I'm"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":159.55,"endTime":163.15,"body":"heading up a couple of one"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":163.15,"endTime":168.1,"body":"startup in a consultancy. So are"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":163.15,"endTime":168.1,"body":"we doing in a nutshell, I tend"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":168.1,"endTime":171.97,"body":"to help the cybersecurity space"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":168.1,"endTime":171.97,"body":"and non cybersecurity space,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":172.27,"endTime":175.24,"body":"about securing their"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":172.27,"endTime":175.24,"body":"application, cloud and so on."},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":175.24,"endTime":179.86,"body":"And we have technology that"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":175.24,"endTime":179.86,"body":"backs us up. And we really want"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":179.86,"endTime":183.67,"body":"to help people getting better at"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":179.86,"endTime":183.67,"body":"secure coding and getting more"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":183.67,"endTime":188.11,"body":"people in the industry. I'm a"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":183.67,"endTime":188.11,"body":"big advocate for diversity and"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":188.14,"endTime":191.29,"body":"really passionate. I mean, no"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":188.14,"endTime":191.29,"body":"one knows that I'm really"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":191.29,"endTime":194.2,"body":"passionate about bringing people"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":191.29,"endTime":194.2,"body":"from different parts of the"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":194.2,"endTime":198.76,"body":"industry into cybersecurity and"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":194.2,"endTime":198.76,"body":"getting the help that I need to"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":198.76,"endTime":201.49,"body":"get up to start. So that's a"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":198.76,"endTime":201.49,"body":"little bit about me."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":202.139,"endTime":203.429,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":202.139,"endTime":203.429,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":203.42,"endTime":209.63,"body":"So could I ask you,"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":203.42,"endTime":209.63,"body":"let's start with Frank. How did"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":209.63,"endTime":213.05,"body":"you get to where you are today,"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":209.63,"endTime":213.05,"body":"kind of talk us through your"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":213.05,"endTime":216.53,"body":"path and what made you go into"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":213.05,"endTime":216.53,"body":"the technology side of it?"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":216.6,"endTime":219.63,"body":"It's really"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":216.6,"endTime":219.63,"body":"a funny story. So I stumbled in"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":219.63,"endTime":225.12,"body":"cybersecurity by completely by"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":219.63,"endTime":225.12,"body":"accident. So I started a career"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":225.6,"endTime":230.28,"body":"in IT fundamentally, and it was"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":225.6,"endTime":230.28,"body":"studying a university. And I"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":230.28,"endTime":235.2,"body":"took one optional field that was"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":230.28,"endTime":235.2,"body":"cyber security and cryptography."},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":235.47,"endTime":238.83,"body":"And it was really, really cool."},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":235.47,"endTime":238.83,"body":"And I started getting into it,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":238.83,"endTime":241.44,"body":"more into it and then start"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":238.83,"endTime":241.44,"body":"challenging my professors, the"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":241.44,"endTime":244.29,"body":"professors that are challenging"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":241.44,"endTime":244.29,"body":"me, and all of that. They said,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":244.53,"endTime":249.06,"body":"you're great at this. I said, am"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":244.53,"endTime":249.06,"body":"I? So yeah, why don't you, why"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":249.06,"endTime":251.52,"body":"don't you? Why don't you start"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":249.06,"endTime":251.52,"body":"working on this tiny piece of"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":251.52,"endTime":256.56,"body":"work that took a year to bring"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":251.52,"endTime":256.56,"body":"it up to market. It was a little"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":256.56,"endTime":260.4,"body":"bit on earliest days of"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":256.56,"endTime":260.4,"body":"virtualization and secure in the"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":260.4,"endTime":263.79,"body":"virtualization world. And at"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":260.4,"endTime":263.79,"body":"that point in time, was"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":263.85,"endTime":267.81,"body":"absolutely not convenient at all"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":263.85,"endTime":267.81,"body":"to write. I remember writing"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":267.81,"endTime":272.49,"body":"like really low code, assembly"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":267.81,"endTime":272.49,"body":"code mix etc. to actually"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":272.64,"endTime":275.13,"body":"communicate with the virtual"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":272.64,"endTime":275.13,"body":"machine from the host machine"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":275.16,"endTime":278.55,"body":"and who is in the space knows"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":275.16,"endTime":278.55,"body":"how painful the early days was"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":278.55,"endTime":282.18,"body":"this. I don't know if you guys"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":278.55,"endTime":282.18,"body":"wrote in assembly, but it's not"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":282.18,"endTime":287.94,"body":"fun at all. So I'm really"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":282.18,"endTime":287.94,"body":"grateful to be in the low code,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":287.94,"endTime":291.57,"body":"almost no code because that"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":287.94,"endTime":291.57,"body":"thing was absolutely dreadful."},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":292.71,"endTime":296.85,"body":"And then I kind of grow into it"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":292.71,"endTime":296.85,"body":"day by day, so I started my"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":296.85,"endTime":301.14,"body":"consultancy and training company"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":296.85,"endTime":301.14,"body":"back in Italy. Then we sold, we"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":301.14,"endTime":304.32,"body":"started working with Microsoft"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":301.14,"endTime":304.32,"body":"and Cisco more and more, and"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":304.32,"endTime":307.95,"body":"then expand here in the UK, and"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":304.32,"endTime":307.95,"body":"really jumping from"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":307.95,"endTime":311.97,"body":"cybersecurity then back in cloud"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":307.95,"endTime":311.97,"body":"security now in application"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":311.97,"endTime":316.86,"body":"security. Security is such a"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":311.97,"endTime":316.86,"body":"nice and wide field to be in."},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":316.89,"endTime":320.25,"body":"And sometimes it can be scary."},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":316.89,"endTime":320.25,"body":"That's why me and Owanate have"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":320.25,"endTime":324.27,"body":"done a lot of episodes,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":320.25,"endTime":324.27,"body":"virtually and non virtually to"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":324.27,"endTime":328.17,"body":"actually help a new startup"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":324.27,"endTime":328.17,"body":"getting to this field that can"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":328.17,"endTime":331.32,"body":"be so confusing. And it's"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":328.17,"endTime":331.32,"body":"confusing for security people, I"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":331.32,"endTime":333.45,"body":"can imagine for people that are"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":331.32,"endTime":333.45,"body":"not in this field."},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":335.58,"endTime":339.84,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":335.58,"endTime":339.84,"body":"And that is quite an interesting"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":339.84,"endTime":343.98,"body":"journey for you that. It is."},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":339.84,"endTime":343.98,"body":"Owanate would you like to give"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":343.98,"endTime":349.08,"body":"us a kind of how did you kind of"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":343.98,"endTime":349.08,"body":"lean into this career path?"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":349.72,"endTime":353.23,"body":"Well, first"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":349.72,"endTime":353.23,"body":"off, any any recruiter tells you"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":353.23,"endTime":355.66,"body":"they wanted to get into"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":353.23,"endTime":355.66,"body":"recruitment, whilst they went to"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":355.66,"endTime":358.63,"body":"university or something like"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":355.66,"endTime":358.63,"body":"that is lying, and I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":358.63,"endTime":366.04,"body":"call them out right. Back so"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":358.63,"endTime":366.04,"body":"everyone, myself included, I"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":366.04,"endTime":371.35,"body":"fell into recruitment. First"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":366.04,"endTime":371.35,"body":"off, so I started placing, I've"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":371.35,"endTime":373.99,"body":"been in recruitment for a long"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":371.35,"endTime":373.99,"body":"time now. Well over 15 years, I"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":373.99,"endTime":377.41,"body":"think my last count was 18"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":373.99,"endTime":377.41,"body":"years, I stopped counting, long"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":377.41,"endTime":380.29,"body":"with a couple of grey hairs. But"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":377.41,"endTime":380.29,"body":"I started off placing"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":380.32,"endTime":389.77,"body":"pharmacists, actually in NHS and"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":380.32,"endTime":389.77,"body":"in pharmaceutical companies. But"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":389.77,"endTime":392.11,"body":"I was the first one's actually"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":389.77,"endTime":392.11,"body":"placed a pharmacist within a"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":392.11,"endTime":395.35,"body":"prison, a locum pharmacist, we"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":392.11,"endTime":395.35,"body":"call contractors locum. So"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":395.35,"endTime":399.01,"body":"that's my claim to fame. And I"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":395.35,"endTime":399.01,"body":"moved out of the public sector,"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":399.07,"endTime":403.54,"body":"and I placed individuals within"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":399.07,"endTime":403.54,"body":"it first, second and third line"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":403.54,"endTime":406.99,"body":"primarily in two banks. And this"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":403.54,"endTime":406.99,"body":"was the crazy days of"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":406.99,"endTime":411.4,"body":"recruitment, or I equate the"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":406.99,"endTime":411.4,"body":"Wolf of Wall Street. So that's"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":411.4,"endTime":416.23,"body":"all time was it was Wolf of Wall"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":411.4,"endTime":416.23,"body":"Street. Well, yeah. So and then"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":416.86,"endTime":419.86,"body":"started refining it somewhat. I"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":416.86,"endTime":419.86,"body":"moved from organisation to"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":419.86,"endTime":423.4,"body":"organisation, and I spent the"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":419.86,"endTime":423.4,"body":"last seven years assisting"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":423.52,"endTime":428.14,"body":"security professionals, and it"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":423.52,"endTime":428.14,"body":"was just prior to that as"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":428.14,"endTime":433.03,"body":"operational risks. So that was a"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":428.14,"endTime":433.03,"body":"very good transition. Sometimes"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":433.03,"endTime":437.47,"body":"I described cybersecurity as"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":433.03,"endTime":437.47,"body":"operational risk, just with a"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":437.47,"endTime":441.16,"body":"more of it flavour. So it was"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":437.47,"endTime":441.16,"body":"quite an easy transition. And"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":441.16,"endTime":445.69,"body":"what's kept me out is some of"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":441.16,"endTime":445.69,"body":"the interesting, crazy, smart"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":445.69,"endTime":451.6,"body":"people you meet along the way."},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":445.69,"endTime":451.6,"body":"So yeah, and here I am, I set my"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":451.6,"endTime":455.26,"body":"own firm in April. Perfect"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":451.6,"endTime":455.26,"body":"timing at the very start of the"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":455.26,"endTime":457.0,"body":"lockdown. So it was.."},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":457.0,"endTime":460.03,"body":"..a Corona"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":457.0,"endTime":460.03,"body":"company."},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":463.78,"endTime":466.93,"body":"Yeah, I was in"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":463.78,"endTime":466.93,"body":"garden leave when it happened. I"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":466.93,"endTime":469.84,"body":"thought all right, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":466.93,"endTime":469.84,"body":"nice thing to say anyway, so"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":469.84,"endTime":473.11,"body":"touch with. So far, so good"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":469.84,"endTime":473.11,"body":"headed in the right direction."},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":473.11,"endTime":475.99,"body":"And it gives you an opportunity"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":473.11,"endTime":475.99,"body":"to speak to even, even more"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":475.99,"endTime":480.64,"body":"people at this time, because"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":475.99,"endTime":480.64,"body":"you're able to add more value."},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":481.12,"endTime":483.91,"body":"People are more open to"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":481.12,"endTime":483.91,"body":"conversations. So all good."},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":483.94,"endTime":486.25,"body":"Absolutely. Thank"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":483.94,"endTime":486.25,"body":"you very much."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":486.49,"endTime":489.43,"body":"Yeah. I would like"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":486.49,"endTime":489.43,"body":"to ask, actually, from a"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":489.43,"endTime":492.94,"body":"recruitment perspective, what an"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":489.43,"endTime":492.94,"body":"applicant needs to do to"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":492.94,"endTime":495.61,"body":"position themselves in this"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":492.94,"endTime":495.61,"body":"competitive climate to secure a"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":495.61,"endTime":499.06,"body":"role. What certifications are"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":495.61,"endTime":499.06,"body":"most sought after?"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":500.56,"endTime":503.77,"body":"It depends on"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":500.56,"endTime":503.77,"body":"how much experience they have,"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":503.92,"endTime":507.37,"body":"if they're just getting into"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":503.92,"endTime":507.37,"body":"security. Well, first off,"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":507.37,"endTime":512.44,"body":"nothing beats work experience."},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":507.37,"endTime":512.44,"body":"If you are able to link what"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":512.44,"endTime":516.94,"body":"you've done previously, in any"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":512.44,"endTime":516.94,"body":"sort of security capacity, even"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":516.94,"endTime":521.71,"body":"if it's physical security."},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":516.94,"endTime":521.71,"body":"That's very important from a"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":521.74,"endTime":525.73,"body":"certification perspective, if"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":521.74,"endTime":525.73,"body":"you're just getting into it. I"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":525.73,"endTime":532.06,"body":"think the  CompTIA Security Plus"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":525.73,"endTime":532.06,"body":"is a very good certification to"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":532.06,"endTime":539.08,"body":"have. Now there is no real"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":532.06,"endTime":539.08,"body":"prerequisites behind it before"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":539.08,"endTime":543.01,"body":"the CompTIA Security Plus,"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":539.08,"endTime":543.01,"body":"there's CompTIA network plus"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":543.28,"endTime":546.7,"body":"CompTIA eight plus but strictly"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":543.28,"endTime":546.7,"body":"speaking, it's not necessary to"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":546.7,"endTime":551.2,"body":"complete those certifications"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":546.7,"endTime":551.2,"body":"before you go to CompTIA"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":551.23,"endTime":556.03,"body":"Security Plus only a good"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":551.23,"endTime":556.03,"body":"understanding of IT, and a good"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":556.03,"endTime":562.03,"body":"understanding of Linux and Unix."},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":556.03,"endTime":562.03,"body":"Now there, as you progress and"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":562.03,"endTime":565.24,"body":"gain more experience, there are"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":562.03,"endTime":565.24,"body":"middle ground intermediate"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":565.24,"endTime":570.19,"body":"certifications, such as CEH"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":565.24,"endTime":570.19,"body":"Certified Ethical Hacker, which"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":570.49,"endTime":573.52,"body":"off the record doesn't actually"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":570.49,"endTime":573.52,"body":"make you a hacker. It's a good"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":573.52,"endTime":576.73,"body":"strong security certification to"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":573.52,"endTime":576.73,"body":"have, but you have two years of"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":576.73,"endTime":582.55,"body":"experience behind you. Also go"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":576.73,"endTime":582.55,"body":"back to fundamentals as well as"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":582.55,"endTime":587.65,"body":"people try and move into"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":582.55,"endTime":587.65,"body":"security. I think that is, I"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":587.65,"endTime":589.81,"body":"think people forget some of the"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":587.65,"endTime":589.81,"body":"fundamentals such as do your"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":589.81,"endTime":592.72,"body":"research on the company, do your"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":589.81,"endTime":592.72,"body":"research and what purpose"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":592.72,"endTime":596.77,"body":"security serves within the"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":592.72,"endTime":596.77,"body":"organisation realise that whilst"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":596.8,"endTime":601.93,"body":"in most organisations, it's not"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":596.8,"endTime":601.93,"body":"a money making area, it is an"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":601.93,"endTime":607.12,"body":"area in which you save money for"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":601.93,"endTime":607.12,"body":"the organisation. Either you"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":607.12,"endTime":611.59,"body":"save money by preventing the"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":607.12,"endTime":611.59,"body":"organisation as much as you can"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":611.59,"endTime":615.67,"body":"being hacked, which leads to"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":611.59,"endTime":615.67,"body":"losses of reputational risk, and"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":615.67,"endTime":619.6,"body":"also leads to regulatory fines."},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":615.67,"endTime":619.6,"body":"It's very important, this is a"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":619.6,"endTime":623.14,"body":"very saturated market, a lot. I"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":619.6,"endTime":623.14,"body":"mean, if you look at the term"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":623.14,"endTime":627.67,"body":"cyber security, information"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":623.14,"endTime":627.67,"body":"security back in the days was IT"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":627.67,"endTime":630.07,"body":"security is information"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":627.67,"endTime":630.07,"body":"security, now it´s cyber"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":630.07,"endTime":633.94,"body":"security. You know what, cyber"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":630.07,"endTime":633.94,"body":"is a sexy term it sells, it's"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":634.42,"endTime":638.32,"body":"probably a marketing term. With"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":634.42,"endTime":638.32,"body":"that you have more individuals"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":638.32,"endTime":642.19,"body":"interested in it. It's important"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":638.32,"endTime":642.19,"body":"to network as much as you can,"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":642.31,"endTime":645.01,"body":"obviously, we're not able to"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":642.31,"endTime":645.01,"body":"network physically here, there"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":645.01,"endTime":648.61,"body":"are associations you can join,"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":645.01,"endTime":648.61,"body":"it's important to do your"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":648.61,"endTime":654.31,"body":"research is to the"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":648.61,"endTime":654.31,"body":"organization's impact within the"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":654.31,"endTime":659.41,"body":"actual industry, what they've"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":654.31,"endTime":659.41,"body":"done. So and also where you want"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":659.41,"endTime":662.68,"body":"to go in security, there are non"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":659.41,"endTime":662.68,"body":"technical areas in security and"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":662.74,"endTime":666.58,"body":"technical areas in security,"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":662.74,"endTime":666.58,"body":"it's important to have our goal"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":666.58,"endTime":669.85,"body":"in mind and research the"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":666.58,"endTime":669.85,"body":"certifications along with that,"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":669.85,"endTime":673.75,"body":"but nothing beats, nothing beats"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":669.85,"endTime":673.75,"body":"experience if you can, if you're"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":673.75,"endTime":676.48,"body":"not working within security"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":673.75,"endTime":676.48,"body":"currently, but you are working"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":676.48,"endTime":679.69,"body":"in an organisation, if you can"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":676.48,"endTime":679.69,"body":"put your hand up volunteer for"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":679.69,"endTime":683.86,"body":"any security related programmes,"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":679.69,"endTime":683.86,"body":"security related projects, find"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":683.86,"endTime":687.46,"body":"a sponsor within it. And you're"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":683.86,"endTime":687.46,"body":"able to articulate that and put"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":687.46,"endTime":691.27,"body":"that into your resume, then you"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":687.46,"endTime":691.27,"body":"stand in a much better position,"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":691.66,"endTime":693.1,"body":"or ultimately research."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":693.99,"endTime":699.21,"body":"For those"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":693.99,"endTime":699.21,"body":"certifications do you advise any"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":699.93,"endTime":700.86,"body":"Institute?"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":701.5,"endTime":704.59,"body":"Maybe I can"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":701.5,"endTime":704.59,"body":"pitch in because let's not"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":704.59,"endTime":709.0,"body":"forget that. There is also a lot"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":704.59,"endTime":709.0,"body":"of open source, there is a lot"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":709.0,"endTime":713.44,"body":"of open source stuff and a lot"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":709.0,"endTime":713.44,"body":"of people doing free and"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":713.44,"endTime":716.74,"body":"available. So certification is"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":713.44,"endTime":716.74,"body":"great and absolutely agree with"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":716.77,"endTime":722.68,"body":"Owanate, experience is"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":716.77,"endTime":722.68,"body":"fantastic. But also there is a"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":722.68,"endTime":726.28,"body":"lot of stuff. If I can mention"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":722.68,"endTime":726.28,"body":"the cloud secure lines is doing"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":726.28,"endTime":729.88,"body":"a lot of stuff on cloud"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":726.28,"endTime":729.88,"body":"security. We have conferences,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":729.91,"endTime":733.72,"body":"we have talks Owanate has been"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":729.91,"endTime":733.72,"body":"on some and we've done like the"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":733.72,"endTime":737.62,"body":"full path for DevSecOps, or"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":733.72,"endTime":737.62,"body":"certification or any kind of"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":737.62,"endTime":741.67,"body":"these things but also dive in"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":737.62,"endTime":741.67,"body":"because effectively, right now"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":741.67,"endTime":745.78,"body":"that all these conference are"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":741.67,"endTime":745.78,"body":"online, just absorb all this"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":745.78,"endTime":749.2,"body":"knowledge because it's free, and"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":745.78,"endTime":749.2,"body":"is available in there. So you"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":749.2,"endTime":751.72,"body":"don't necessarily need to do the"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":749.2,"endTime":751.72,"body":"certification. Certifications"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":751.75,"endTime":756.31,"body":"are great. But they cost money."},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":751.75,"endTime":756.31,"body":"And right now in this moment of"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":756.31,"endTime":760.99,"body":"scarcity, where people are out"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":756.31,"endTime":760.99,"body":"of job, OWASP is a great place"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":760.99,"endTime":765.28,"body":"where everybody is pushing in."},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":760.99,"endTime":765.28,"body":"And it's not just about web"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":765.28,"endTime":769.72,"body":"application security, it was"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":765.28,"endTime":769.72,"body":"born as an open web application"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":769.72,"endTime":774.19,"body":"security framework. But it"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":769.72,"endTime":774.19,"body":"expanded and has a lot of"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":774.19,"endTime":778.54,"body":"flagship projects and a lot of"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":774.19,"endTime":778.54,"body":"great people that can guide and"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":778.57,"endTime":783.22,"body":"share their knowledge and it's"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":778.57,"endTime":783.22,"body":"for free. So it's go out there"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":783.25,"endTime":790.33,"body":"search for IC Square or CSA or"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":783.25,"endTime":790.33,"body":"OWASP they are great or ASA that"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":790.33,"endTime":794.65,"body":"a great place to network and to"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":790.33,"endTime":794.65,"body":"get free information."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":794.98,"endTime":796.75,"body":"Great. Thank you"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":794.98,"endTime":796.75,"body":"very much."},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":797.95,"endTime":802.54,"body":"Can I just add"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":797.95,"endTime":802.54,"body":"on to that as well, Mario? You"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":802.57,"endTime":806.65,"body":"mentioned a good point. I'm a"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":802.57,"endTime":806.65,"body":"big fan of the term free. I"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":806.65,"endTime":812.05,"body":"recently compiled 10 free"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":806.65,"endTime":812.05,"body":"training courses, specifically"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":812.05,"endTime":815.17,"body":"dedicated to security some aree"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":812.05,"endTime":815.17,"body":"in cryptography, some are in"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":815.17,"endTime":819.73,"body":"GRC. Some are in security"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":815.17,"endTime":819.73,"body":"architecture. These are all free"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":820.54,"endTime":826.09,"body":"and they role at various levels"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":820.54,"endTime":826.09,"body":"from intermediate rookie"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":826.09,"endTime":828.82,"body":"straight through to experts."},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":826.09,"endTime":828.82,"body":"That's actually on my website"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":828.82,"endTime":831.7,"body":"and the publication partner"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":828.82,"endTime":831.7,"body":"Bestman solutions if you go to"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":831.7,"endTime":835.21,"body":"that I've listed 10 free"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":831.7,"endTime":835.21,"body":"training courses is also on"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":835.21,"endTime":838.93,"body":"LinkedIn as well. So go to the"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":835.21,"endTime":838.93,"body":"publication webpage of"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":838.93,"endTime":842.41,"body":"Bestmansolutions.com And they're"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":838.93,"endTime":842.41,"body":"all listed there a number of"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":842.41,"endTime":844.18,"body":"them some from Open University"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":842.41,"endTime":844.18,"body":"as well."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":844.18,"endTime":846.46,"body":"Okay, okay, so the"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":844.18,"endTime":846.46,"body":"website just to confirm is"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":846.55,"endTime":848.68,"body":"bestman.com, right? And we can"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":848.84,"endTime":853.07,"body":"No, no, it's"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":848.84,"endTime":853.07,"body":"bestmansolutions.com. If you go"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":853.07,"endTime":864.86,"body":"to bestman.com we might take you"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":853.07,"endTime":864.86,"body":"to a stag company to do that as"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":864.86,"endTime":865.52,"body":"well, but"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":867.37,"endTime":870.1,"body":"let's take the"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":867.37,"endTime":870.1,"body":"bestmansolutions.com, just"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":870.1,"endTime":870.7,"body":"confirming"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":871.62,"endTime":875.4,"body":"Branching out into a"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":871.62,"endTime":875.4,"body":"whole new role. I thought about"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":875.4,"endTime":881.49,"body":"that. Yeah. Okay, so just to"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":875.4,"endTime":881.49,"body":"bring it back to cybersecurity."},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":881.91,"endTime":888.24,"body":"So obviously OutSprint were"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":881.91,"endTime":888.24,"body":"OutSystems, but taken into the"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":888.24,"endTime":891.69,"body":"platform's OutSystems powers"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":888.24,"endTime":891.69,"body":"absolutely the low code, no code"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":891.69,"endTime":895.59,"body":"type solutions we have out"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":891.69,"endTime":895.59,"body":"there. And obviously with the"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":895.62,"endTime":898.5,"body":"pandemic and people have been"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":895.62,"endTime":898.5,"body":"using these more heavily now."},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":898.65,"endTime":902.91,"body":"What would you consider the"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":898.65,"endTime":902.91,"body":"biggest risks that needs to be"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":902.94,"endTime":906.93,"body":"kept an eye on for these local"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":902.94,"endTime":906.93,"body":"systems and platforms?"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":907.53,"endTime":910.17,"body":"I will say"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":907.53,"endTime":910.17,"body":"cybersecurity is first of all,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":910.17,"endTime":915.6,"body":"because a lot right now we saw"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":910.17,"endTime":915.6,"body":"massive cuts in cybersecurity"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":916.26,"endTime":919.53,"body":"teams and the organisation will"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":916.26,"endTime":919.53,"body":"still need to deploy. And"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":919.53,"endTime":923.13,"body":"actually even more right now,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":919.53,"endTime":923.13,"body":"people are trying to find"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":923.13,"endTime":926.19,"body":"different and new clever ways in"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":923.13,"endTime":926.19,"body":"these terminal scar cities. So I"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":926.19,"endTime":930.66,"body":"really love the idea of almost"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":926.19,"endTime":930.66,"body":"no code writing and is in line"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":930.66,"endTime":936.66,"body":"with Gartner zero code or code"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":930.66,"endTime":936.66,"body":"Initiative, or citizens code"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":936.66,"endTime":940.35,"body":"initiative that I really love"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":936.66,"endTime":940.35,"body":"because it brings everybody from"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":940.35,"endTime":944.07,"body":"their organisation to actually"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":940.35,"endTime":944.07,"body":"write code or get that empathy"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":944.34,"endTime":948.78,"body":"towards engineers, and to bring"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":944.34,"endTime":948.78,"body":"effectively the prototype to"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":948.78,"endTime":953.28,"body":"market as fast as you can. But"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":948.78,"endTime":953.28,"body":"the only problem with that is"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":953.28,"endTime":956.16,"body":"that everybody that puts"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":953.28,"endTime":956.16,"body":"together a piece of code or a"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":956.16,"endTime":960.27,"body":"piece on application, called"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":956.16,"endTime":960.27,"body":"potentially publish it up, not"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":960.27,"endTime":964.38,"body":"involved security. And that"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":960.27,"endTime":964.38,"body":"could lead into first of all, if"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":964.38,"endTime":967.59,"body":"you are lucky, in a report"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":964.38,"endTime":967.59,"body":"projects, brand reputational"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":967.59,"endTime":971.01,"body":"damage, but if you know, lucky,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":967.59,"endTime":971.01,"body":"there could be a breach point."},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":971.04,"endTime":976.23,"body":"So I would say low code is"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":971.04,"endTime":976.23,"body":"great, but also always involve"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":976.23,"endTime":980.4,"body":"security in you know, assessing,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":976.23,"endTime":980.4,"body":"or maybe test the application in"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":980.4,"endTime":984.15,"body":"an environment that is safe,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":980.4,"endTime":984.15,"body":"where client can come and try it"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":984.15,"endTime":989.43,"body":"out, but in a very safe way. And"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":984.15,"endTime":989.43,"body":"if you want to take it outside,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":989.46,"endTime":993.72,"body":"take it outside just in a"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":989.46,"endTime":993.72,"body":"temporary basis, or put MFA plus"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":993.72,"endTime":998.01,"body":"an authentication, login so that"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":993.72,"endTime":998.01,"body":"you prevent the occasional"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":998.01,"endTime":1002.42,"body":"hacker or the occasional"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":998.01,"endTime":1002.42,"body":"attacker to breach your"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1002.42,"endTime":1007.46,"body":"application just because you put"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1002.42,"endTime":1007.46,"body":"it there occasionally. So just"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1007.46,"endTime":1010.76,"body":"always be conscious that even"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1007.46,"endTime":1010.76,"body":"even if it's a demo, if it's a"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1010.76,"endTime":1014.75,"body":"prototype, anything, it just"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1010.76,"endTime":1014.75,"body":"affect your brand and affect"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1014.75,"endTime":1018.2,"body":"your organisation or brands and"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1014.75,"endTime":1018.2,"body":"test it, if you take it to"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1018.2,"endTime":1021.38,"body":"production test it, it's like"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1018.2,"endTime":1021.38,"body":"with a vulnerability scan, if"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1021.38,"endTime":1025.4,"body":"you don't want to buy an"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1021.38,"endTime":1025.4,"body":"expensive pen test code and or"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1025.4,"endTime":1028.64,"body":"pen test it, because it's the"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1025.4,"endTime":1028.64,"body":"best way to actually break the"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1028.64,"endTime":1032.27,"body":"logic of an application. And we"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1028.64,"endTime":1032.27,"body":"offer both service. So if you"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1032.27,"endTime":1033.98,"body":"don't know where to go come to"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1032.27,"endTime":1033.98,"body":"us."},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":1036.54,"endTime":1039.18,"body":"Very generous of"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":1036.54,"endTime":1039.18,"body":"you, we will be looking for the"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":1039.18,"endTime":1039.72,"body":"discount."},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1040.04,"endTime":1042.41,"body":"Absolutely,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1040.04,"endTime":1042.41,"body":"we offer discount to authors."},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":1045.65,"endTime":1046.76,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1047.59,"endTime":1051.01,"body":"Still using that as"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1047.59,"endTime":1051.01,"body":"a segue and taking into account"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1051.37,"endTime":1054.82,"body":"platforms such as OutSystems, or"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1051.37,"endTime":1054.82,"body":"Power Apps and that the"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1054.82,"endTime":1057.28,"body":"platforms such as these are"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1054.82,"endTime":1057.28,"body":"helping with the current wave of"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1057.28,"endTime":1060.55,"body":"digital transformation that was"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1057.28,"endTime":1060.55,"body":"kickstarted by the pandemic,"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1060.64,"endTime":1062.98,"body":"what would you consider to be"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1060.64,"endTime":1062.98,"body":"the biggest risks that we should"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1062.98,"endTime":1063.97,"body":"keep our eyes on?"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1064.5,"endTime":1067.2,"body":"Web"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1064.5,"endTime":1067.2,"body":"assessments, web, I mean, if you"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1067.2,"endTime":1069.96,"body":"look at OutSystem and if you"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1067.2,"endTime":1069.96,"body":"look at any low code is"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1069.99,"endTime":1073.74,"body":"effectively just piece of code"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1069.99,"endTime":1073.74,"body":"put it together to describe a"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1073.74,"endTime":1077.64,"body":"workflow to describe an"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1073.74,"endTime":1077.64,"body":"application. So the traditional"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1077.64,"endTime":1085.11,"body":"Promit piece of code is that you"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1077.64,"endTime":1085.11,"body":"can atomically evaluate an"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1085.11,"endTime":1089.76,"body":"application or a piece of code"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1085.11,"endTime":1089.76,"body":"or anything that is secure by"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1089.76,"endTime":1092.61,"body":"itself, but then you put it"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1089.76,"endTime":1092.61,"body":"together and the different"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1092.61,"endTime":1097.2,"body":"component can operate in a way"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1092.61,"endTime":1097.2,"body":"that makes an application behave"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1097.2,"endTime":1100.62,"body":"in an insecure way. And that's"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1097.2,"endTime":1100.62,"body":"bread and butter for an attacker"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1100.62,"endTime":1103.5,"body":"because they try to break while"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1100.62,"endTime":1103.5,"body":"they try first of all,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1103.53,"endTime":1107.4,"body":"occasionally, to break"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1103.53,"endTime":1107.4,"body":"application to break into a"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1107.43,"endTime":1112.38,"body":"system using you know the common"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1107.43,"endTime":1112.38,"body":"vulnerability, you have a port"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1112.38,"endTime":1117.54,"body":"open that this may be exposing a"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1112.38,"endTime":1117.54,"body":"web server that is vulnerable or"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1117.54,"endTime":1121.62,"body":"any other occasional stuff that"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1117.54,"endTime":1121.62,"body":"is easy to exploit. But then the"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1121.62,"endTime":1125.04,"body":"next level is they try web"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1121.62,"endTime":1125.04,"body":"application, they try to probe"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1125.1,"endTime":1130.35,"body":"other fields, or try to see if"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1125.1,"endTime":1130.35,"body":"they can steal your cookies if"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1130.35,"endTime":1134.1,"body":"they can still use a session."},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1130.35,"endTime":1134.1,"body":"And that's individually, it's"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1134.13,"endTime":1137.01,"body":"complicated, too. But then the"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1134.13,"endTime":1137.01,"body":"other part is, they try to break"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1137.01,"endTime":1140.19,"body":"the logic of an application. So"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1137.01,"endTime":1140.19,"body":"if you put together a prototype"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1140.19,"endTime":1143.37,"body":"that maybe lead to an internal"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1140.19,"endTime":1143.37,"body":"database with some user"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1143.37,"endTime":1146.7,"body":"information, maybe they try to"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1143.37,"endTime":1146.7,"body":"bypass the authentication, which"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1146.7,"endTime":1151.8,"body":"may be inserting some fields. So"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1146.7,"endTime":1151.8,"body":"it's always better to insert"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1151.86,"endTime":1155.88,"body":"those kinds of testing mentality"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1151.86,"endTime":1155.88,"body":"in all your development"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1155.88,"endTime":1159.63,"body":"lifecycle so that when you bring"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1155.88,"endTime":1159.63,"body":"an application into production,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1159.63,"endTime":1162.63,"body":"you start thinking it like an"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1159.63,"endTime":1162.63,"body":"attacker, you start trying to"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1162.63,"endTime":1165.81,"body":"break your own application. And"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1162.63,"endTime":1165.81,"body":"if you instil it in your own"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1165.81,"endTime":1169.59,"body":"developer, they can think, first"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1165.81,"endTime":1169.59,"body":"of all on how they can break"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1169.59,"endTime":1173.4,"body":"their own application where they"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1169.59,"endTime":1173.4,"body":"need the testing in a in a more"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1173.43,"endTime":1176.67,"body":"consistent way. I don't know"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1173.43,"endTime":1176.67,"body":"what you guys think?"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1177.529,"endTime":1182.149,"body":"I was thinking"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1177.529,"endTime":1182.149,"body":"about what just said, and most"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1182.149,"endTime":1186.289,"body":"of these local platforms they"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1182.149,"endTime":1186.289,"body":"already offer out of the box,"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1186.619,"endTime":1190.789,"body":"authentication methods and"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1186.619,"endTime":1190.789,"body":"whatnot. I would like to trust"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1190.789,"endTime":1193.489,"body":"those authentication methods to"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1190.789,"endTime":1193.489,"body":"say okay, these are secure"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1193.489,"endTime":1199.099,"body":"enough to at least withstand an"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1193.489,"endTime":1199.099,"body":"attack from a hacker. What's"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1199.099,"endTime":1199.939,"body":"your view on that?"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1200.05,"endTime":1203.71,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1200.05,"endTime":1203.71,"body":"mean, I think 30% of the attack"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1203.71,"endTime":1207.1,"body":"right now are through credential"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1203.71,"endTime":1207.1,"body":"stuffing. So because there is so"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1207.1,"endTime":1210.07,"body":"many breaches, people are just"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1207.1,"endTime":1210.07,"body":"collecting. I mean, there is"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1210.07,"endTime":1212.77,"body":"collection number one to"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1210.07,"endTime":1212.77,"body":"collection number five, that is"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1212.98,"endTime":1217.12,"body":"like gigs and gigs and gigs of"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1212.98,"endTime":1217.12,"body":"files with username and"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1217.12,"endTime":1220.93,"body":"password. So attacker, any kind"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1217.12,"endTime":1220.93,"body":"of attacker that is worth their"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1220.93,"endTime":1225.49,"body":"name, have those at hand and can"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1220.93,"endTime":1225.49,"body":"try them continuously. So even"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1225.49,"endTime":1229.57,"body":"if normally an attacker or a"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1225.49,"endTime":1229.57,"body":"user use the traditional"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1229.57,"endTime":1234.01,"body":"credentials, it's not about that"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1229.57,"endTime":1234.01,"body":"the authentication system is not"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1234.01,"endTime":1237.46,"body":"safe, is that it's very common"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1234.01,"endTime":1237.46,"body":"that those password might have"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1237.46,"endTime":1241.09,"body":"been used somewhere else. And -"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1237.46,"endTime":1241.09,"body":"I see - you could potentially"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1241.09,"endTime":1245.11,"body":"build a super secure"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1241.09,"endTime":1245.11,"body":"authentication method, but then"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1245.41,"endTime":1248.2,"body":"you lose the consideration that"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1245.41,"endTime":1248.2,"body":"an attacker will not try to"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1248.2,"endTime":1251.86,"body":"break a protocol because people"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1248.2,"endTime":1251.86,"body":"will have tried to secure their"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1251.86,"endTime":1254.92,"body":"protocol to the enth degree. But"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1251.86,"endTime":1254.92,"body":"then they will use the"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1254.95,"endTime":1258.88,"body":"occasional thing that is, do I"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1254.95,"endTime":1258.88,"body":"have the credential, let's try"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1258.91,"endTime":1261.4,"body":"all the credential and maybe"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1258.91,"endTime":1261.4,"body":"crash the application because"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1261.4,"endTime":1264.37,"body":"you try too many credential at"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1261.4,"endTime":1264.37,"body":"the time. And attacker is"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1264.37,"endTime":1267.1,"body":"fundamentally thinking outside"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1264.37,"endTime":1267.1,"body":"of the box. And if you think"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1267.1,"endTime":1270.22,"body":"outside of the box, like an"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1267.1,"endTime":1270.22,"body":"attacker and say, well, I have"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1270.22,"endTime":1273.43,"body":"an authentication system, and"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1270.22,"endTime":1273.43,"body":"then I have multi factor, if you"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1273.43,"endTime":1277.0,"body":"try them both is really, really"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1273.43,"endTime":1277.0,"body":"hard to break it. And that's"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1277.0,"endTime":1281.05,"body":"actually how to get rid of, for"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1277.0,"endTime":1281.05,"body":"example, things like credential"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1281.05,"endTime":1284.23,"body":"stuffing, just pulled"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1281.05,"endTime":1284.23,"body":"multifactor even SMS factor"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1284.44,"endTime":1288.4,"body":"authentication in immediately,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1284.44,"endTime":1288.4,"body":"you've secured so much better on"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1288.4,"endTime":1290.05,"body":"application with an"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1288.4,"endTime":1290.05,"body":"authentication flow."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1291.05,"endTime":1293.06,"body":"Never thought about"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1291.05,"endTime":1293.06,"body":"it this way that social"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1293.06,"endTime":1296.33,"body":"engineering could actually be"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1293.06,"endTime":1296.33,"body":"the undoing of my application."},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1298.1,"endTime":1300.08,"body":"So you can"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1298.1,"endTime":1300.08,"body":"build the most secure things,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1300.08,"endTime":1303.98,"body":"and then you break the logic of"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1300.08,"endTime":1303.98,"body":"an application. For example, one"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1303.98,"endTime":1308.69,"body":"thing that we're testing some"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1303.98,"endTime":1308.69,"body":"time ago on a client is they"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1308.69,"endTime":1311.87,"body":"built a very secure application,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1308.69,"endTime":1311.87,"body":"we vulnerabily assess the"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1311.87,"endTime":1314.72,"body":"application, almost nothing"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1311.87,"endTime":1314.72,"body":"showed up, they were super,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1314.72,"endTime":1317.99,"body":"super proud. And then you know"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1314.72,"endTime":1317.99,"body":"what? I inserted the admin at"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1317.99,"endTime":1321.56,"body":"the end of the URL. And I"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1317.99,"endTime":1321.56,"body":"bypassed complete the"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1321.56,"endTime":1324.86,"body":"authentication system because it"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1321.56,"endTime":1324.86,"body":"didn't - uh, that must have hurt"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1325.37,"endTime":1328.58,"body":"- but they never thought"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1325.37,"endTime":1328.58,"body":"somebody would have done that."},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1328.88,"endTime":1331.43,"body":"And the authentication system"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1328.88,"endTime":1331.43,"body":"was perfect. They had"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1331.43,"endTime":1335.18,"body":"multifactor, but they forgot to"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1331.43,"endTime":1335.18,"body":"take on the authentication into"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1335.18,"endTime":1339.2,"body":"reauthenticate. So effectively,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1335.18,"endTime":1339.2,"body":"that was a problem or a more"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1342.86,"body":"ingenious way will be, you know,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1342.86,"body":"what are still a token from a"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1342.86,"endTime":1346.4,"body":"client and a replay the token"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1342.86,"endTime":1346.4,"body":"towards the application. And if"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1346.4,"endTime":1349.88,"body":"the client is an admin, I replay"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1346.4,"endTime":1349.88,"body":"that token, and I'm an admin"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1349.88,"endTime":1352.67,"body":"immediately I stole that"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1349.88,"endTime":1352.67,"body":"session, you need to think"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1352.7,"endTime":1357.71,"body":"outside the box that attackers"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1352.7,"endTime":1357.71,"body":"are getting, like vulnerability"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1357.74,"endTime":1362.42,"body":"into laptop for that specific"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1357.74,"endTime":1362.42,"body":"reason to steal credential to"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1362.42,"endTime":1367.7,"body":"steal cookies to steal tokens,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1362.42,"endTime":1367.7,"body":"because that's the easy way,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1367.73,"endTime":1370.46,"body":"that's the easy way you can"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1367.73,"endTime":1370.46,"body":"social engineer somebody say:"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1370.7,"endTime":1373.91,"body":"I'm your boss, I need this email"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1370.7,"endTime":1373.91,"body":"immediately or click on this"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1373.91,"endTime":1376.97,"body":"website, enter the credential,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1373.91,"endTime":1376.97,"body":"store the credentials, I am your"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1376.97,"endTime":1380.06,"body":"admin, immediately. So you might"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1376.97,"endTime":1380.06,"body":"build the most secure"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1380.06,"endTime":1383.18,"body":"application, but then you forget"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1380.06,"endTime":1383.18,"body":"the human aspect of"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1383.18,"endTime":1388.04,"body":"cybersecurity. And it's usually"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1383.18,"endTime":1388.04,"body":"the weakest link, but it´s the"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1388.04,"endTime":1391.88,"body":"one that works and attacker use"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1388.04,"endTime":1391.88,"body":"it. Yeah, and it's not the user"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1391.91,"endTime":1394.7,"body":"is not the user fault is who"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1391.91,"endTime":1394.7,"body":"design the application that"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1394.7,"endTime":1398.03,"body":"hasn't thought through, or who"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1394.7,"endTime":1398.03,"body":"is effectively the cyber"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1398.03,"endTime":1400.94,"body":"security professionals or"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1398.03,"endTime":1400.94,"body":"responsible for cybersecurity,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1401.09,"endTime":1404.69,"body":"that doesn't have a solid"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1401.09,"endTime":1404.69,"body":"cybersecurity strategy. With"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1404.69,"endTime":1407.18,"body":"solid cybersecurity strategy. I"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1404.69,"endTime":1407.18,"body":"say look at application"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1407.18,"endTime":1410.12,"body":"security, look at vulnerability"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1407.18,"endTime":1410.12,"body":"assessment, and look at the"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1410.12,"endTime":1413.93,"body":"human aspects of how you can"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1410.12,"endTime":1413.93,"body":"train your user to not react to"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1413.93,"endTime":1417.5,"body":"weird emails or to always"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1413.93,"endTime":1417.5,"body":"question weird emails. And it's"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1417.5,"endTime":1418.43,"body":"as simple as that."},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":1418.91,"endTime":1424.4,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":1418.91,"endTime":1424.4,"body":"So, as we kind of closing up"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":1424.43,"endTime":1428.96,"body":"through this podcast, so I'd"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":1424.43,"endTime":1428.96,"body":"like to get what are your"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":1428.96,"endTime":1431.69,"body":"thoughts? You know, what is the"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":1428.96,"endTime":1431.69,"body":"vision? You know, where do we"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":1431.69,"endTime":1436.73,"body":"see cybersecurity going, where"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":1431.69,"endTime":1436.73,"body":"we take into account the rapid"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":1436.73,"endTime":1441.53,"body":"progress we're making, as smart"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":1436.73,"endTime":1441.53,"body":"as hackers are getting? Where do"},{"speaker":"Ian Tailor","startTime":1441.53,"endTime":1442.73,"body":"we see this going in the future?"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1443.14,"endTime":1444.97,"body":"So let me"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1443.14,"endTime":1444.97,"body":"add just a little bit because,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1445.0,"endTime":1450.76,"body":"of course, I'm Italian, I've"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1445.0,"endTime":1450.76,"body":"been speaking a lot. It's my"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1450.76,"endTime":1456.19,"body":"bed. But I see, I see almost"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1450.76,"endTime":1456.19,"body":"like everything is getting"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1456.25,"endTime":1459.4,"body":"outside data centre. More is"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1456.25,"endTime":1459.4,"body":"getting into the cloud. And the"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1459.4,"endTime":1464.32,"body":"only thing that we are left with"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1459.4,"endTime":1464.32,"body":"is securing some codes and"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1464.32,"endTime":1466.99,"body":"securing some cloud environment."},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1464.32,"endTime":1466.99,"body":"And that's where we've been"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1466.99,"endTime":1470.98,"body":"investing heavily on in helping"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1466.99,"endTime":1470.98,"body":"our clients secure their code"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1471.04,"endTime":1475.09,"body":"and the cloud because that's"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1471.04,"endTime":1475.09,"body":"where we think that"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1475.12,"endTime":1478.96,"body":"cybersecurity is going to go and"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1475.12,"endTime":1478.96,"body":"everything else will be almost"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1478.99,"endTime":1482.74,"body":"automated or automatable. So the"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1478.99,"endTime":1482.74,"body":"more you secure your code, the"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1482.74,"endTime":1484.96,"body":"more you secure your user"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1482.74,"endTime":1484.96,"body":"behaviour. The more you have a"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1484.96,"endTime":1489.07,"body":"structured strategy, the better"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1484.96,"endTime":1489.07,"body":"you are at cybersecurity."},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1489.0,"endTime":1490.47,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1489.0,"endTime":1490.47,"body":"certainly agree with that,"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1490.47,"endTime":1495.66,"body":"especially around automation and"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1490.47,"endTime":1495.66,"body":"whether or not that is"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1495.66,"endTime":1498.63,"body":"artificial intelligence as well"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1495.66,"endTime":1498.63,"body":"in the progression towards"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1498.63,"endTime":1502.02,"body":"artificial intelligence. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1498.63,"endTime":1502.02,"body":"coming from a recruitment"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1502.74,"endTime":1506.91,"body":"perspective. And I think the"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1502.74,"endTime":1506.91,"body":"implementation of artificial"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1506.91,"endTime":1512.07,"body":"intelligence will diversify the"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1506.91,"endTime":1512.07,"body":"job descriptions and diversify"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1512.07,"endTime":1516.3,"body":"the duties of security"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1512.07,"endTime":1516.3,"body":"practitioner in which a lot of"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1516.3,"endTime":1521.82,"body":"the monotonous activities won't"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1516.3,"endTime":1521.82,"body":"be automated. And perhaps we can"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1521.82,"endTime":1525.51,"body":"get back to some of the human"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1521.82,"endTime":1525.51,"body":"elements as well. And to maybe"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1525.54,"endTime":1529.62,"body":"recruit people that think like"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1525.54,"endTime":1529.62,"body":"hacker from a wide diversity"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1529.98,"endTime":1535.95,"body":"from a wide pool of society to"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1529.98,"endTime":1535.95,"body":"reflect the actual hackers, as"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1535.95,"endTime":1541.98,"body":"well. So rather than being more"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1535.95,"endTime":1541.98,"body":"reactive, but to effectively be"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1541.98,"endTime":1548.82,"body":"more proactive. That's my wish."},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1541.98,"endTime":1548.82,"body":"What do I know? Can I do if I"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1548.82,"endTime":1550.8,"body":"justify CISOs? And what to do,"},{"speaker":"Owanate Bestman","startTime":1548.82,"endTime":1550.8,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1555.91,"endTime":1558.88,"body":"Thank you very much"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1555.91,"endTime":1558.88,"body":"Francesco, Owanate and Ian for"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1558.88,"endTime":1561.94,"body":"being able to join us and taking"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1558.88,"endTime":1561.94,"body":"time from your schedule to be"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1561.94,"endTime":1564.73,"body":"able to participate in this"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1561.94,"endTime":1564.73,"body":"little chat of ours. Pleasure."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1567.49,"endTime":1569.68,"body":"Thanks, again. Thank you very"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1567.49,"endTime":1569.68,"body":"much all of you."},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1569.71,"endTime":1570.97,"body":"Thank you,"},{"speaker":"Francesco Cipollone","startTime":1569.71,"endTime":1570.97,"body":"Mario. Thank you Ian."},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1571.03,"endTime":1574.09,"body":"And with that, we"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1571.03,"endTime":1574.09,"body":"end up this episode. Thank you"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1574.09,"endTime":1576.91,"body":"very much for listening and hope"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1574.09,"endTime":1576.91,"body":"you join us on our next episode"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1576.91,"endTime":1579.67,"body":"of high tech local podcast,"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1576.91,"endTime":1579.67,"body":"where we will feature another"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1579.67,"endTime":1584.35,"body":"guest and approach yet another"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1579.67,"endTime":1584.35,"body":"topic of extreme importance. See"},{"speaker":"Mario Cunha","startTime":1584.35,"endTime":1584.74,"body":"you soon."}]}