The Mysterious Murder of Oakey "Al" Kite

There are some people who are always ready to think the best of the world and the people in it. Tonight we’ll tell the story of what happened when one such “nice guy” opened his home to a mysterious stranger.
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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:00

I'm Jen Lee and I'm Janice Olivan. And we'd like to welcome you to beneath your bed, a podcast where we drag out all those fears at work, beneath our beds from the paranormal to true crime, to the simply strange along the way, we'll be drinking cocktails and sharing stories from our Appalachian upbringings. There's some people who are always ready to think the best of the world and the people in it tonight. We'll tell the story of what happened when one such nice guy opened his home to a mysterious stranger.

Speaker 2 0:40

How are you?

Speaker 1 0:41

I'm doing well. How are you? I'm glad it's Friday. Oh, me too. It's been a week and it's been a week. It's been a week trying to get this podcast off the ground. We have had more technical issues this week. Like it's been the week from hell. Anyone who thinks you can just take your mic and plug it into the computer. Yeah. You can do that, but it is much harder than it sounds. Absolutely. So it's really, I think when we got on tonight and our sound was working, everything's going to be in order. I was like, yes, we can finally do this. Yeah. Thank God. And speaking to God, what do you think of Jerry Falwell jr. Thank God. I just saw it actually, just before I got on here with you. Um, I was scrolling through Facebook. And what is it? He had some kind of racy photo or something. That's come out now. He's he's been shamed. Yes. He had, he posted a photo to Instagram. I think it was Instagram or one of his social media accounts. And he did it by accident evidently and he standing next to a young woman who I think she looks like she's wearing a wig and they both had their pants on button them to end their stomachs exposed. So if you can imagine Jerry Falwell jr. With, do I have to yeah. With his, uh, his stomach exposed hairy belly. Yeah. It was kind of hairy. I think I'm not an expert on men's Belize, but it looked kind of hairy to me. So he also had a drink in his hand and something in the caption said, this is just black water. Oh my God. So it looked like it was alcohol. Of course. So for all those petty things that they throw students off campus for at Liberty university, evidently Jerry Falwell jr. Can just do whatever he likes. Or maybe not. Now that they've asked him to take a temporary leave of absence, what's in your high ball glass tonight. I started off making a French 75 and then it developed into something completely different. I don't even know what you would call it. I added some, some lemon cello. I added some st Germain to it. And I think I added some vodka as well. That sounds so delicious, honestly. Yeah. So it's not a friend 75 now, does it have champagne too? Top it off? I use Prosecco that you had given me before. So I had it in the fridge and I thought let's try this. And with the COVID I don't really want to go running to the liquor store. So I'm trying to use up everything that's in. Yeah.

Speaker 3 3:11

Well, you're probably going to come up with some interesting cocktails, just trying to work through your stuff.

Speaker 1 3:15

Cash. I have a lot of booze to, to go through. So typically French 75 would have lemon in it and Jen, and then top with champagne and some simple syrup in that really yummy if you haven't had it

Speaker 3 3:29

Before I had about a year ago and I loved it, I bought this really cheap bottle of champagne, like$5 champagne while really sparkling wine. Cause I'm sure it was not from champagne, Tanya. Um, but I bought it when I was in West Virginia. So I'm going to have to make something out of that and be like an Appalachian French. Stephanie, I need to moonshot for that. Exactly.

Speaker 1 3:50

Yeah. There you go. In the bar there and asked for them

Speaker 3 3:57

Layer on me. Okay.

Speaker 1 4:00

Yay. So let's get started tonight. We're going to talk about the case of oaky El kite. And this case takes place in Aurora, Colorado on a Saturday, May 22nd, 2004, 53 year old, Okie El kite picked up his girlfriend and he took her to the airport. Two days later, he didn't show up for work. And by all accounts, he was very, very reliable. Um, his coworkers became extremely worried about him. So they reached out to his sister, Barbara. They told her that he hadn't come into work that morning and they were worried about him.

Speaker 3 4:31

That's never a good sign. Is it? It never goes well when the person doesn't show up

Speaker 1 4:35

For me, because sometimes

Speaker 3 4:38

You show up for work.

Speaker 1 4:39

Oh no, I do. But sometimes I forget to tell people when you know, I'm taking the day off and I'll get calls or random texts about my, my, wherever. I felt my whereabouts.

Speaker 3 4:49

That's true. I think I've done that with you before. Are you okay? Are you on the line?

Speaker 1 4:53

Multiple people have done that with me. So yeah, unless you're me, then it's very concerning. So when they called her sister, Barbara, she was really, really concerned. And she told them go to Al's house and try to get him to come to the door and also call the police. So when his coworkers went to Al's townhome, they were not going to his door calling for him. Al never came to the door. So they call the police and the police arrived. And when they went inside, they ended up going downstairs and they found Al face down where his feet had been bound behind him and also his arms. And he was deceased. One of the things that was most notable or stood out, and there was a lot of things just to stand out. In this case, his feet were severely bruised. And the coroner report indicates that he was most likely tortured for hours. What they also found was that he had, and this just makes me cringe. He had knives that have been inserted into his ears. He had a knife inserted over one of his eyes and his throat had also been cut. And the first two things you mentioned, like the,

Speaker 3 6:07

I don't know, I'm imagining these thin little knives. I don't know what the knives were actually like, but that doesn't seem like something that would kill you. It's just amount of torture and that's, that's horrifying

Speaker 1 6:15

Kind of large to me who knows if they were exact replicas, but anything, a knife, anything above two inches looks huge to me. They went upstairs and just getting that.

Speaker 3 6:28

I just, it just takes me a while. Sometimes

Speaker 1 6:33

The one upstairs and in the sink, they found bleach and water. And in that were knives. They look to be knives that were kept at Al's home. Look to be his own personal knives, kitchen knives.

Speaker 3 6:45

Damn. That always pisses me off. I have to say, when people get killed by their own shit, you know,

Speaker 1 6:50

Freaks me out, just looking at the knife block, where we keep our knives and it just gives me the creeps. Especially if I'm by myself.

Speaker 3 6:56

I felt that too. I'm glad I'm not the only one. This is

Speaker 1 7:00

Illuminating. Yeah. When I'm alone, uh, that really, really scares me for whatever reason. Wow. I didn't know that about you now. You know? And then also things being beneath my bed. Yeah. Someone looking in the window that was super freaky to me. So in the bleach, they also found a drinking glass. They found keys to Al's townhome and they also found a honing rod. So what's the honing rod. Well, if you have that, I don't even know what the proper term is from the block that you keep your knives in

Speaker 3 7:35

A lot of sharpen. Like, do you sharpen your knife with it?

Speaker 1 7:38

Exactly. Like I've tried to use it before and I don't know what I'm doing. It never seems to work. So it just, just stays there. It never goes any place. So yeah, it was one of those. It was a honing rod and the police found one drop of single source DNA, meaning it belonged to just one person. It was a mixed with ALS on the steps. And when the detectives were going through the house, they fingerprinted almost everything. And it just, it came up with nothing. And they also, after using luminol, they picked up where the killer had taken a shower now and ELLs,

Speaker 3 8:19

Luminol picks up blood. Right. It, it shows blood kind of glowing.

Speaker 1 8:23

Exactly. So if you, there was pronounced evidence of what it would show up on when you use luminol, but if you didn't use it, I guess you wouldn't be able to see it.

Speaker 3 8:32

But so the blood was probably Alison, I guess, in the shower, like the blood that he had on him from him.

Speaker 1 8:37

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It would totally have to be his to carry out the kind of crime he would have been covered in blood. So he evidently stayed quite some time at Al's house. And what's significant about the keys is that Al had a roommate, he was going to run out the room and his, in his townhome and whoever the roommate was immediately shot to the top of their list because they saw the keys. Yeah, of course. Now Al's girlfriend, Linda. The last time she saw him, he dropped her off at the airport and they had just started this new relationship and they were calling each other girlfriend, Hey girlfriend, Hey boyfriend. And all that sweet cutesy stuff at the beginning, you remember that? She called him later at around three 30. And she was saying that when she talked to him, he seemed very reserved, you know, very flat, not his, you know, usual outgoing, jovial self. So there's speculation that perhaps a killer could have been there at that time. The killer had filled out this or the suspect had filled out this rental application for Al and everything on it was false except for a phone number. And when Linda met him, she had come by Al's house. So he came upstairs or he's like, Oh, do you want to meet, you know, my potential roommate? She's like, yeah, I do. But I have to run to the bathroom. So she goes to the bathroom, she comes back and as she came back and she wasn't gone long, she saw this Robert Cooper, Birdly leaving the house. Didn't turn around. Didn't say hello. Didn't say bye.

Speaker 3 10:22

So it was kind of like he was trying to avoid her. Maybe he didn't want

Speaker 1 10:26

That's what, that's what she thinks. So she only saw the back of him and maybe the side profile. She said that he had dark curly hair. He seemed to be average billed, but he was also nicely dressed. And she said that he carried a cane, which is super creepy to me. Yeah. If he didn't need one. So when they ran the blood in codas, it didn't come up with a hit. But later through further testing, they determined that this blood belonged to someone who was from the Balkan region, which is, you know, Albania, Bosnia, Romania would be another. And by all accounts, Al was a really nice guy. And that factors in to his, his murder as well, in what way over and over and over again, that's how people described him. He was nice. He was really, really nice. He was a nice person. And since he was picked to commit this crime against speculation is that he was chosen because he was nice. He would never suspect someone capable of doing anything. So heinous, I mean, who would

Speaker 3 11:31

Exactly, but he would never be able to imagine that this guy who's, you know, filling out an application to be his roommate could be a sociopath. He would never, he's not going to think badly of him,

Speaker 1 11:42

Nice people when bad things happen or people do bad things to them. They don't see it coming. I think because it would never occur to them to do such a thing. And especially what to him, I mean, it's just, I've, it's the most brutal I think killing I've ever heard.

Speaker 3 11:59

Yeah. It's horrifying. It also seems strange to me that, I mean, it seems like overkill for sure. Like, you know, the guy, the whoever, Robert Cooper, whoever this guy is is, is having a good time. Like he's playing with him.

Speaker 1 12:13

Yeah. They say that later that he's really seemed to enjoy it. A lot of the information we got off the Paul holes show, the DNA of murder was one of the sources for this, where a lot of the information came from and he had an array of resources at his fingertips that other people or detectives I think would not have had. So when to the, the course of the detectives research, detective Sobieski, who has been on the case for a very long time, they found out that everything on the application of course was false. The name, the address is security number. And they, there was their phone number. They eventually found a phone number. I believe they found that at his and his work and they call the number and it ended up a homeless man. I picked up the phone. It was a burden

Speaker 3 13:03

With a burner phone though. I'm just curious, like, so he had discarded the phone somewhere and somebody picked it up. Is that what happened?

Speaker 1 13:09

Yes. Yes. He had discarded the phone and someone had picked it up. Okay. So the detectives think that they're going to catch a break, even though it's a burner phone, because they can maybe trace some calls that he made. And the ended up, he did make more than one call and he made multiple calls to people. They're all people who placed advertisements in newspapers for roommates.

Speaker 3 13:33

God, I'm never doing that. You've not allowed to do that either.

Speaker 1 13:38

It's his house with a townhome. When you go downstairs, it's the small bedroom, the small area that he was renting. And you would think a townhome would be a very bad place to commit this type of crime, especially it was planned out because you know, you're sharing a wall, but if you saw the room, you would see that it was very isolated. It looked like, you know, you wouldn't be able to hear something like that going on. There was a window, but it led up to a great, so even the window wasn't even ground level. So, and then also when you came down the steps, it looked like there was, you could make a right and that could possibly take you into another room or who knows maybe a storage area or garage. I'm not sure, but I looked at it more closely and it wasn't just that one room down there. It looked like there was something else. They released two sketches. One to me closely resembled the description that Linda had given and another didn't. The other one just was like a basic, I don't know. It could have been anybody.

Speaker 3 14:46

Male face. Yeah. Yeah. Just nothing that stood about him. The other

Speaker 1 14:52

One, the features to me seem more distinct. Okay. What investigators also found was that he had used ALS card taken out, I believe a thousand dollars and they got pictures of him. So this was quite some time ago. It wasn't video footage. It was like still pictures. So it shows him using his card can over at the camera, just very casual and it takes out the money and he leaves and they found Al's truck abandoned. Not far from his home after that.

Speaker 3 15:23

I mean, this is probably would have been what, just a few hours after the murder,

Speaker 1 15:27

If he was at the house for a number of hours, who knows, uh, if he had to clean up, he had to take a shower.

Speaker 3 15:33

You know, I know there's no way of ever knowing this, but it just makes me wonder, did Al have any misgivings about this guy? I mean, we have to assume, I guess he didn't because he was willing to rent the place to him, but it just makes you wonder, I mean, did Linda ever say that Al said anything to her? Like, Hey, this guy's a little, you know, a little weird, anything like that?

Speaker 1 15:53

No, she didn't say that at all. What Al did say to her was that when he had come to look at the, the room and he had heard out the door, I'll had said to her, I made a comment, like he's not interested in a room anymore. Oh. And Linda thinks, and this makes perfect sense. Is that when the renter came to take a look at the room, he didn't expect Linda to be there. Yeah. So he probably told Al you know, just forget it, whatever. I don't, you know, I'm not going to do this. Well, I believe a couple of weeks later, he actually gave Al he filled out a rental agreement and he gave out$250, like is a down deposit. And then part of the next month's rent. Okay.

Speaker 3 16:41

You know what puzzles me too though. You know, you said something about how he may be. He was put off of it when he realized, okay, maybe Linda's around, you know, I'll maybe he has this girlfriend who's coming over, but why wouldn't you be better than one? Like if he really wants to kill somebody, why doesn't he want to kill a couple? It's not like, I mean, I don't think Linda probably would have been able to put up a big fight. You know? I mean, it's going to be harder to take on a man than a woman in most cases. So that's just strange to me. It's

Speaker 1 17:09

I suppose it would just be more challenging. And too, it's interesting that he picked a man. He didn't pick a woman, but what you'll find out is after detectives get this burner phone, Trey, some calls thinking that they can somehow trace it back to this guy. What they found is that he made multiple calls, but they were all to people who place ads in the paper for roommates. And one was a woman, a professor who taught, I believe it was Denver university. Aurora is like right outside of Denver. And she taught Romanian and she detected a slight Romanian accent. That proves to be very, very important. But she, so when he came to look at her home that instantly, she just wanted them out. She wanted him to leave. He wasn't really asking her any questions or talking to her. He was pacing around. He was looking out the windows and she said, she just wanted him out.

Speaker 3 18:06

This was evil.

Speaker 1 18:08

And if you go back to all accounts about Al you hear this over and over and over again is that he was just a nice guy. He was such a nice guy. Every description you heard of him was just talking about what a nice likable person he was. So when you think about, you had asked maybe why he didn't kill a couple or go for somebody else, like, why didn't he go for this woman, this professor, why didn't he go for her? And one of the things that was theorized is that because she was uncomfortable with him, maybe she asked him too many questions. You know, she sensed that there was something off about him that he wanted to choose somebody who guard would be on and they wouldn't expect it. They said that it did not appear that there was a sexual assault. So this wasn't based on, you know, a sexual motive sounds like an Al he found the perfect victim just because he was such a good trusting

Speaker 3 19:03

And nice person, kid, you know, this Robert Cooper, whoever he is, he could pick up on that and tell that this is a person who was never going to suspect. And yeah, I mean, he'd just come get into my home, you know, make yourself comfortable. And it's like, uh, you know, when you think about that, it's like a lock and a key perfect victim, perfect perpetrator. They just fit. But in such a terrible way,

Speaker 1 19:28

It's just frightening. And to think that he would be so confident to, to choose a man. But if you look at the, if you look at the home, it looks like it's, uh, I, I imagine it's a split for your type situation. Cause if you go downstairs the room that he was going to rent, it appeared to be on the left-hand side. It was a very small room and there was a window. And you would think, well, why would someone commit such a terrible crime, you know, in a townhome? Cause you have a joining. Yeah. Well, once they looked at it, if you look closely at the room, you'll see that there's only one window and that doesn't even lead like right out to, it would not be easy to exit through that window. You would have to go through a grade. So the window wasn't even, you know, eye level. And it would have been the perfect place to do this. Some of the information that I got researching this came from a show that was from 2006 and it was called sensing murder. Can you guess what

Speaker 3 20:27

That was about murder? Um, psychics kind of like trying to, Oh my mum. Right.

Speaker 1 20:37

And this show, I don't know how long the show had been on I'm guessing at least a couple seasons Al's sister Barbara had reached out to them and asked that they would cover Al's case. So it was two women psychics, as soon as like a lot of psychics are women

Speaker 3 20:54

Or gay men. It's that female intuition that we have.

Speaker 1 20:58

Well, I didn't think they had much of an intuition. I'll get to that and just do second. So the detectives needing leads and wanting to solve this case. And then also because his sister Barbara had reached out to the show and I'm guessing to them, they agreed to show the two psychics, the crime scene. And at the time it wasn't just detective Sobieski. That was working on the case. It was a, a female detective too. And that was back in 2006 with two years after it happened. And I do believe in psychics or some people have that ability, but I'm very, very skeptical. And with these two, they were asking the investigators a lot of stuff about the crime. So they're asking him and the other female detectives, they took them one, went with one psychic and the other one with another psychic. So it wasn't ever four of them together in a room. It was two and two. So the psychics each to me, especially one would say, I think that maybe I sent something with his head. And then the look at the detective looking for some type of affirmation, I think there was some type of trauma to his body. No bitch, no they called you. Or you recalled to ask to provide your input. They're not supposed to tell you exactly what happened. You're supposed to be helping. They're just trying to read the body language. And yeah, that's what I think too. I don't know if you remember the psychic that was very famous. He was always on Montel Williams, Sylvia Brown. I remember her with Sylvia Brown, especially when I notice with her was that she was so rude to people like people would ask her about missing children or about the relationships with her children, what they should do. And she would just be very reluctant. She also consulted, I believe on the Shawn Hornbeck case where he was kidnapped and his parents had looked for him for years and years and years. And everybody just assumed that he had passed. Um, they went to her and she was like, you know, he's dead. Just really offensive. Just seem mean spirited. So anytime I see someone like that, and they're immediately trying to shut someone down or like take somebody's last hope or trying to, you know, get them to move along and not allow them to ask for the questions. Then I find that very suspect,

Speaker 3 23:18

What kind of thing, psychics by the time they make it, when they're on the Oprah show or whatever, you know, these people were on, it's more of a, it becomes more of an entertainment thing than the real deal. I think, I feel like probably the best psychics aren't out there making, making the circuit of all these talk shows.

Speaker 1 23:35

I feel the same way that they wouldn't be out there doing that, that they would just be, you know, offering their services or, you know, not necessarily for free, but, or just doing it privately.

Speaker 3 23:46

You know, I think sometimes law enforcement, they feel a little, they don't even want to reveal that they're using psychics. So I think a lot of times it's on the low, at least from what I've understood from reading about different cases and things like that.

Speaker 1 23:57

But I think the sister, again, she's the one who reached out. So I think they were just prepared to give anything

Speaker 3 24:04

At this point because they understand the case is still unsolved right. To this day.

Speaker 1 24:10

Yeah. It's still unsolved with Paul holes back to his show. He had a lot of resources at his disposal that these detectives did not seem like they had. And Paul holes is the one who solved the golden state killer. And then Michelle

Speaker 3 24:25

McNamara wrote, wrote about, yeah,

Speaker 1 24:28

Yeah. There's a series on sedation.

Speaker 3 24:30

Yeah, it is. And then her book came out, I think what 2018 after her death actually. Yeah. I've watched the series. It's amazing.

Speaker 1 24:37

Yeah. I'm just starting, I'm only on episode. I think maybe three finished. You're desperate

Speaker 3 24:42

With them for, for a treat. I, I watched the last episode and it was just, I was just really deeply moved by it actually. You know, I think that her story going to give anything away, but intertwined with her search for this killer. And I don't know, I think that the show does a really good job of laying out these different themes and kind of everything. I think you'll find that everything comes together in the last episode in a really interesting way. So

Speaker 1 25:06

Hopefully I'll finish the rest of it this weekend. But so far I think has been excellent. So he's the detective that had solved that particular case and it had gone and solved for decades and they used, he used DNA, but it was through like genealogy, the single source DNA, the blood drop that they found on the steps. The detectives found on the steps just belonged to the suspect or the murderer didn't belong to Al that's gonna play into this later. The bindings that Al was bound with were just really elaborate. So when you hog tie someone for lack of better terms, you know, it's putting your risk behind your back and then also your feet behind your back. Well, with these bindings, they were unique because they also bound all the way up to his upper arms and the knots were tied unusually. So Paul holes enlist this expert on binding. Well, what Paul holes also did is that he reached out to someone who is a civilian intelligence analysts and she develops cultural profiles. What they find out who the civilian analyst is, she developed this profile and she said that the type of feet, meaning where Al's feet were really, really ruse is called Flocka. And it's used by the Hezbollah and Turkey. It's not, she said it wasn't a terrorist organization. So I guess it's somehow distinct from some of the others. Um, I don't know how, but she didn't really go into that, which would have been helpful. But anyway, she said that philoso was common to this group and it's used to extract or compliance. And do you remember the honing rod in the sink? She said that that rod could have been used or most likely used to beat his feet. And that's why there was a severe,

Speaker 3 26:55

No, but you're not going to kill someone by beating their feet. So that sounds like just pure, pure torture. I mean,

Speaker 1 27:01

I feel like it was just done for the pure enjoyment of it. Nothing else, just that when she was talking about the Turkish Hezbollah being known for the philosophy, she said that they would bind people in a similar manner how Al was found. So they were known for their unique brand of torture. I didn't look, um, I went to amnesty international and they indicated that philosophy is also used by the police. So this guy could be a law enforcement. So in law enforcement. Yeah. And it didn't really say that in the show, but evidently it's could have been a police officer. What she went on to explain was is that again, if you remember, Al's killing took place in 2004, one, the early two thousands, there was a big flow of traffic from places like Romania to Turkey, because there was a draw for jobs and education, especially in the in stand bull area. And when Turkish Hezbollah was getting too powerful, the Turkish government began a crackdown. So people were ever, you know, or either round it up or they escaped. So everything's falling into place, the Romanian accent, the blood, the single source DNA, or that said that the person was probably from the Balkan region, all these pieces are falling into place. So the killer could have immigrated to the us. They could have slipped it

Speaker 3 28:26

Maybe less to like, right. Cause you think like what brought him to Aurora of all, you know, you could have gone anywhere. Presumably.

Speaker 1 28:33

Yeah. It's so random. Um, so yeah, I think there's a really good possibility that he could, could've been going to school there, I guess, has gotten some leads because they're working with relatives to build a family tree, you know, hoping to identify this man. So it's the same method that Paul holes used to catch the golden state killer.

Speaker 3 28:55

I feel like, you know, DNA does not lie and more and more people are signing up on these genealogical sites all the time. I mean, actually I have a 23 and me kit that was given to me and I haven't done yet, but you know, you just think people are always being added. It's just, it's building and building. So yeah. Chances are good. It seems to me that they might eventually find this guy

Speaker 1 29:18

I'm too paranoid to, to do that. I know of other people have done it too, but I just don't want anybody to have my DNA and then they take it and they'd sell it off. And you know, they can sell that information off to any company. What do they, you know, sell it to insurance companies. You don't know, but you know, that is just me.

Speaker 3 29:34

Brian has done it. Basically. He found out he's like a hundred percent Irish for whatever that's worth, but he's found all of relatives through it. And

Speaker 1 29:43

You know, he's really good at tracing his genealogy. Anyway,

Speaker 3 29:47

I think it's, I wouldn't not do it. I keep meaning to do it. Um, and I haven't done it, but I, I know what you mean. It's kind of invasion of privacy kind

Speaker 1 29:54

Of stuff. Yeah. But it's fascinating.

Speaker 3 29:57

Like if they do end up catching him, you know, you think, okay, there was a one drop of blood and then how that can be used to extract DNA and then they do this, I guess, really forensic genealogy. So I don't know. I wonder if they're going to catch him, it's such a long time ago now, you know, Cod 2004. That's what 16 years

Speaker 1 30:15

It is. And the person, you know, very well might not even be in the U S any longer or even be

Speaker 3 30:20

Alive, although it didn't sound like he was an old

Speaker 1 30:23

Man. No, no, it didn't. And the first time I saw this case, it was on, I believe America's most wanted, I tried to go back and find it, but I couldn't. And I remember just being so sorry.

Speaker 3 30:35

Yeah. And I was, I was actually wondering like, what, what is it about this case? I mean, it is, it is horrifying, you know, all the details in the torture, but I'm just curious, like what about it? You know, there's so many horrifying cases, like what about it just really gets to you?

Speaker 1 30:49

Well, it's in your own home, which based on forensic files and all the shows that I've watched, you know, it wouldn't be necessarily that unusual, the knife being used that always freaks me out. Yeah. When I'm home alone, I don't like to have that featured prominently on my calendar. There have been times I've actually taken the nights out and I've put them in the drawers. Yes,

Speaker 3 31:12

Yes. My luck I'd be hit with like a mud LER. You know, he used to make my drinks like knock, knock me down

Speaker 1 31:18

Senseless. That would be a much better, much better way. So I think it's because, you know, in your own home, the knives from your kitchen, a you're it's happening to a man, a man being overpowered like that. Yeah. And then also it was just done because they like doing it. I mean, maybe this was a person that was involved in torture and Turkey and since they had to flee the country, they lost that connection and they enjoyed it. So he just wanted to be able to,

Speaker 3 31:50

Again, if there are other victims they did, did they mention that at all, that they can link this to any, any, any other crimes?

Speaker 1 31:57

No, no. There was no

Speaker 3 32:02

Doing it once is not going to be enough. You know, you're going to have to have a regular diet of this to, to get you through, but weird if he did it once and then was able to, somehow

Speaker 1 32:12

It makes you wonder if the person is still in the country. Um, there was one other case. I can't remember what state or what time it was. It was kind of similar, but it happened to a realtor, but I can't remember the specifics of the case, but it doesn't sound like it's the same one. There were some similarities. So to me, it's someone who was only in the U S for a certain period of time and then moved on. And if people were being drawn from Romania or the Balkan region to Turkey for education in, in Stan bowl, that was a big draw. Maybe, you know, they continued their education at Denver university. Cause Aurora is just right outside of Denver. And I believe that's where the woman, one of the potential landlords where she was at that university.

Speaker 3 32:58

And I think part, part of what's creepy about it to me is the, like what seems to be randomness. But then on the other hand, isn't really random. I mean, I, don't not that he maybe had a vendetta for Al, but he Al was kind of like we discussed this already, but the perfect victim, right. He was very trusting. He didn't have his guard up, but I don't know. It just that the random randomness of it

Speaker 1 33:21

Talked about too, about, you want to show like this and your life is just reduced to this crime. You know, it was very one dimensional other than, you know, hearing descriptions of him being a nice guy. And obviously he was loved, but you know, you live a whole entire lifetime and that's what you're reduced to, and that's, what's remembered about you

Speaker 3 33:40

And think about that in terms of even talking about murders or true crime, I think the whole true crime industry. Um, and I guess we're, we're part of it now, since we're talking about this, but you know, it has that, that kind of questionable seamy underside that, you know, why are we, are we, um, uh, I don't know what the word is, um, fascinated or attract, are we somehow capitalizing on somebody's death for entertainment? I mean, there's no question that it's entertainment, right. Murder. I mean, I think true crime books sell like crazy. They're how I think you could lose count of all the true crime podcasts and, and shows on, but there's something about it that we just can't look away from. It,

Speaker 1 34:24

Especially women, evidently it's a huge industry with women. And I, I, I kind of look at it in terms of, it's almost like an adult ghost story.

Speaker 3 34:35

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. An adult go story.

Speaker 1 34:39

When I was a kid, we used to love to, when we had sleepovers to tell ghost stories. And to me, it's kind of like a, an adult ghost story and yes, I think about people profiting or, um, somehow

Speaker 3 34:51

People like kind of getting off on like the misery of what's happened to somebody else. Is that what you mean? Like,

Speaker 1 34:57

We like to talk about it. I mean, here we are talking about this actually re after researching it, it started to make me kind of depressed and I thought, Oh, I hope we get through this episode so we can move on to something else because this one's right.

Speaker 3 35:11

Said so we can move on to other depressing topics.

Speaker 1 35:13

Well, we're going to be moving on to the parent warmer, but I mean, I do wonder about exploiting people, but I was talking to a cousin recently and as you know, I lost a close family member to murder when I was a child and how it impacts your life. And it, it does for generations and it's, it's kind of like, I equate it to throwing a stone in a pond and it just has all these ripples. I

Speaker 3 35:38

Really hope we can talk more about that at some point, you know, I mean, I know we we've talked about it, but I'm really interested to know more about, you know, how that's impacted your family and how you still feel that, you know, like it's in your, kind of in your family, like the culture of your family. Um, to me, that's really, really, I don't know. That's just interesting. That's a good way to put sad. And,

Speaker 1 36:02

And when I've had this discussion with one cousin in particular, we talk about, you know, our, I don't want to even say fascination, but almost like this addiction to watching these shows and remembering when forensic files started in the nineties. And so I think that I attribute some of my interest from that, or maybe a lot of it, I don't know. And also Ann rule,

Speaker 3 36:26

I love Ann rule stuff. I've read a lot of her stuff, but, but that's interesting cause you have that you have that really personal connection like you from when you were a child, when that happens. So that's, it's almost like just part of what you can remember, but that leads me to a bigger question. Like, you know, I mean, okay, our podcast is called beneath your bed. And you know, we're talking about things that, that really chill us and, you know, make us freeze and just feel really creeped out. You know, why, why are we talking about this stuff? And I think for me, part of it's real life can be so, so scary even just daily life, right? Just getting through just daily stuff and just the, the mundane chaos of life and the repetitive nature of, you know, daily routines and work and all of that. And it's kind of fun sometimes to be scared about something that's bigger than that. I think it helps manage some of those more mundane worries and anxieties.

Speaker 1 37:26

You would think though it wouldn't be helpful. I don't know if it's necessarily helpful. I just know that I, you know, I'm attracted to things like this mystery, just having the mystery behind something.

Speaker 3 37:38

When I was a kid, I was always a morbid melancholy kid and I had this little plastic guitar and I made up this song called the black widow. And I remember like strumming a guitar and singing the song about the black, which I probably had a bridge on cameo broach on, um, more about that later. But yeah, like I've always just been fascinated, you know, if like a pet got buried, I was thinking about, Oh, like, how is like really

Speaker 1 38:07

No one would know by listening to this podcast, but you actually have some previous podcast fame. Oh God,

Speaker 3 38:14

Yeah. You would bring that up with you.

Speaker 1 38:16

Classic is the best ever. Maybe one day somebody will figure it out.

Speaker 3 38:21

Well, this has been really fun and I can't wait for, you know, I think there is no end of creepy stuff. And you know, like you kind of hinted out, we're going to be talking about supernatural stuff, paranormal some true crime, just really a little bit of whatever

Speaker 4 38:36

We're talking about this shit. Anyway, we might as well do a podcast about it. Right? Thank you to everyone who listens to the best thing you can do to help us grow is to like review and subscribe on iTunes and better yet tweet about us or post about us on Facebook. Tell your friends if you think that they would like us and have a good night,

Speaker 2 40:09

[inaudible].