Beneath Your Bed Podcast
Beneath Your Bed Podcast
Black Eyed Kids
What shape does fear take? Can we look into its eyes? In tonight’s episode, we’ll explore one manifestation of terror that has become an urban legend for our times.
I'm Jenna Sullivan and I'm Jen Lee. And we'd like to welcome you to beneath your bed, a podcast where we drag out all those fears that lurk beneath our beds from the paranormal to true crime, to the simply strange along the way, we'll be drinking cocktails and sharing stories from our Appalachian upbringings. What shape does fear take? Can we look into its eyes in tonight's episode, we'll explore one manifestation of terror that has become an urban legend for our times.
Speaker 2:Jen, how are you? Hey, Jen, it's it's going all right. Um,
Speaker 1:With the exception of RBG passing away, I mean, that's just a real, real hit. I really is. I think, I think that hit everybody really hard when the news came in last Friday night and she's the first woman to lay in the rotunda. I did not know that. Yeah, she's the first woman to do that. And I was also reading too, that she died on the Eve of Rosh Hashana. And there's some significance to that because they say that those who die on the evil Rashana is because God was saving them to the very last because they were needed. Oh my goodness. That's thought it's just really striking. Really kind of gives me shivers. When I think about it, he tells me too, she was just an amazing woman. I mean, I think even her personal life was amazing. Like she had this marriage and you know, her love of opera and just the incredible work she did against all odds and so humble. And she worked really hard to keep things collegial on the Supreme court did. So tonight I made a little drink and I'm going to call it the RBG. Oh. And as you know, last weekend I made some strawberry simple syrup and I'm not sure if I told you I added peppercorns to it. Who did not tell me that, that sounds so vice to it with a RBG I have, of course the strawberry black peppercorn strawberry syrup. And I also added Champaign cause I'm going to try to go through all of my champagne vodka rosewater. And then also I added a basil leaf and it's really, really, really good. So I'm going to write down, will you please write that down and make one for me next time we can actually be together. That sounds amazing. 100%. I think that's a perfect cocktail for RBG because it's sweet and it's elegant, but it's spicy and a little, got a little bit of a tough edge with the pepper, but multifaceted like, like she was well, it's very, very good. So I'll make you on the next time. I see you. I would love that. Well, what I'm drinking is a French martini and I I've never had one before, but I had recently bought a bottle of sham board and I thought I need to do something with this. It's just got vodka, quite a lot of vodka, actually sham, board and pineapple juice. And it's, it's wonderful. It's really, I'm going to sound really pretentious. And I really don't mean to, but it's elegant. Like it has this elegant taste. It's sort of booze heavy with a little bit of the fruit, but it doesn't have that real boozy, like after taste.
Speaker 3:I can't explain it. It's it's got a kick, but it's, it's refined and restrained at the same time until I told you I was going to sound super pretentious. So I was going to say, I would think like the pineapple juice could have drowned it out, but it doesn't sound like it did it. Doesn't in fact, I think you would really like this. Cause I know you like fruity stuff, but sometimes it can get a little too intense. So I'm going to make this for you too. I think you would really like it. It's very subtle. Well, next weekend when we see each other social distancing. Yes. Except I think we probably shouldn't be making each other drinks, but I guess not, but I wish we could. Well, I've been going through the Amazon buying spree for the last three weeks I bought, I bought a bunch of, I bought like, I think three water Globes for Christmas, who I was going to get you one of those, you bought them. I bought one with an angel and I bought another with Cardinals. And then I, I bought another, I think that has Santa Claus. Oh my God bought another table runner and two Christmas trees wait, like full size. Well one's 15 inches. It's a, they're both acrylic. And it does like the water globe. It kicks things off inside of it. Like the glitter. Oh, that's cool. Well, I've been on, I don't think it's quite as big of a buying spree as you have, but I'll tell you my latest two purchases. One of them, I was telling my husband about it today. I'm like, um, so I bought, I bought a nut dish. It's like, you know, we bought it all. And then I bought this picture. It's this girl. And she's in this really like beautiful poofy white dress. It's really forties ish. Well, I collect all those vintage pictures, but they're lesbian pictures. Those are amazing. I love, I love the pictures that you have. Did you ever get that one framed? No, I haven't. And I had, it was a gift to me from last Christmas. So I do have to get a frame to the woman that was restoring it. Well, first off mind you, it's a bunch of together dressed basically as men. For the most part. I love it. Is that the one I that's the one I saw, right? Yeah. Yes. I mean, it's quite clear what's going on there what's what's transpiring, but the woman who restored it said that she thought maybe it was political because they were c ause they were all in uniforms. I don't know where the she got that from, but I thought that was ridiculous. I ju st l ike, I really like images of women sh ow w hat that says, but we can't be the only two that are not buying everything lik e Am azon and eBay. There's no way when I'm really old though. I'm just going to be like this old lady with no money. And I'm like all this bri ck, a B r a ck ar ound. So with that, are you ready? Shall we start? Yes, I'm ready. All ri ght. So Jen, this is a story about what happens when evil cloaked in in nocence asks to be invited into your life. What do you think about that? Yeah. Sounds like a woman. Well, tonight I'm going to tell you about a phenomenon known as the black eyed children or black-eyed kids and they've come to be referred to
Speaker 1:As just the bee Ks. So if that's okay with you, I think that's how it referred to them throughout my story. That's that's good. I tried to watch a few things about them today. So I have a little bit of knowledge, but not much awesome. I actually, I've only seen one tiny clip. Most of what I've done is read, but, um, I'd be very curious to see some shows about them. So, I mean, honestly, I can't even remember how I heard about them or aware. It was kind of recently, it just kind of something occurred to me, like do the bee Ks for, for the podcast. And I'm trying to think, I must've seen them mentioned somewhere, but I, I honestly can't remember where that was, but I know this, I do know that this is a phenomenon that like really gets under my skin. I guess I scare easily. I think people probably have gotten that by now, but this like truly frightens me. And I think of all the things we've talked about, or at least the things I've talked about on the podcast so far, this is the one that most freaks me out. So I went to, I went to a few different sources when I did an internet search. Um, so Snopes came up. So I looked at Snopes and Snopes, of course they said like, there's no evidence that this phenomenon actually exists. However, it's kind of, part of it's become part of urban folklore. And that's fine because for me the fact that it's so scary, it doesn't have anything to do with whether it's true or not, but just, just imagining it really terrifies me. So I also read about it in this article called black-eyed kids, the chilling legend that began an Abilene, and this was from Texas Hill country.com. So according to those two sites, the first story or the first sighting about black eyed kids, um, is from 1996. And it was a guy named Brian Bethel who apparently was a journalist and he was living in Abilene, Texas. So he, um, he processed his experiences and a lot of his feelings about life, just as a writer, like by writing about it. And I guess he had an interest in the paranormal because he posted about it on this ghost related. What I suppose in the nineties would have been like a listserv, um, because I know it was a closed group. You had to be a member of the group to read the posts, but somehow he, he posted there and then the story just really took off. I mean, it went what we would now say viral. He is the first, according to most sources who had an encounter. So this happened to him in 1996. I think he posted on the, on the list around 1998, according to him, it was nighttime and he had to pay a bill. And I don't know if the bill was maybe going to be late if he didn't get it in, get it in by the next day. But he decided to take a check and drop it off at the, um, at a Dropbox or something. So he's in the shopping center and he's in his car. Is this in the evening? It is. So it's nighttime. Yeah, it's dark. And he's in the shopping center and he's in his car just riding out the track cause he's like me and he never does anything in preparation in advance. He's always, you know, he was just doing it at the last minute and he was going to drop it off. So while he's writing, he hears this rapping. It reminds me of something on a pole, right. This wrap, wrap, wrapping it, his card or his car window. So he looks up and he sees two boys and he estimated, they were somewhere between 10 and 14 years old. He couldn't quite tell. But what he did say was that immediately felt this immense sense of uneasiness, but you know, they're kids and they're outside and it's late. So I think it was around 10 30 at night. So he rolled his window down a few inches to ask what it was they wanted. And they told him that they had planned to go to a movie, but that they'd forgotten their money at home. So they asked him to let them into their car so that he could drive them home to pick up the money. And he was like, well, you know, I'm not sure about that. Like what are your kids going to a movie? You know, at this hour, I'm just sort of imagining what the conversation was like. But apparently the kids said something like, you know, don't, don't be worried. We're just two kids. It's not gonna take long. Just let us in, ask us inside, ask us inside your car. And they made it clear that they couldn't get into the car until he gave them permission to do so.
Speaker 3:Did he give them permission?
Speaker 1:He did not. So I would say maybe halfway through this encounter, towards the end of the encounter, he saw their eyes and there, he noticed that their eyes were completely black. So it wasn't. So we're going to just talking because I have dark eyes, but it's not like their eyes were dark. It was, it was like the entire I was, was completely black. So the sclera, which I didn't even know the name, but apparently the white part of your eyes called the sclera was completely black. So like looking at somebody who has no pupils, no white part of their eye, just just avoid basically. And he, he completely loses it at this point. At this point, he talks about how his fight or flight response just took over and in a panic, like he starts the car up and he drives away as fast as he can. And as he's driving away, he's kind of, I guess he had the presence of mind to look in the rear view mirror and they had vanished. He didn't see anybody or anything.
Speaker 3:There's something to me that's so frightening. Anything to do with a knock or a rapping like at the door, especially at a window. I just find that, I mean, agree with that. I mean, have you ever been on your car and someone's knocked on your window and how do you jump out of your skin? I have
Speaker 1:That happened to me. He actually, outside of a workplace one time, um, I was doing something in the car. It was the end of the Workday getting ready to leave. And a client actually, um, was wrapping up my window and I looked up and I mean, I, I jumped. I was like, what in the world?
Speaker 3:About two to three years ago, we, you know, I have really bad insomnia and I hadn't slept for almost a day. So on the way back from a work event, and this is during broad daylight, I am like, you know, I need to pull over. I need to get some sleep, take a little nap or, you know, I don't want to get an accident and hurt somebody. So I pull over at this dairy queen and try to kind of park in a remote spot and I fall asleep. Next thing I know, I wake up to, um, ambulance driver knocking or a paramedic knocking on my window. And I'm like, what? And they're like, ma'am, are you okay? Someone called us? I'm like, yeah, I'm fine. I'm just taking a short nap. And then about that time, a police officer, police cruiser pulls up behind my car, like blocks me in, like I'm doing something criminal. And he comes over, he asked for my license, asked me if I was doing okay. And I said, you know, I was just really tired. I just pulled over to catch some sleep. But I think that they thought that I was on something and had taken some drugs and had drifted off to sleep. And someone became concerned, but thought you were dead. Yeah, I think so. I think that's a possibility too, but I've jumped out of my skin when they did that.
Speaker 1:It happened to me when I used to go up to Baltimore for grad school, like some mornings and some especially mornings, I would feel like, you know, it would be so easy to just close my eyes and just drift off. So I know that feeling and that's a really scary feeling.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It was really scary in the beginning. And then it quickly moved on to embarrassment because it was such a scene. That's awful
Speaker 1:Cool. How long did it take for them to let you go?
Speaker 3:I can say from the time the paramedic knocked on my window to the police officer, I would say less than 10 minutes, maybe, but long enough. I mean, it probably felt like forever. Yeah. And people were staring. So
Speaker 1:I totally agree with you that I think knocking in is, is in itself creepy. I think at grill Poe definitely knew that. And other kind of scary things. So if you imagine hearing a knocking and I think everybody can imagine this, so you open the door and there's nobody there that's really creepy too. Or like you said, somebody knocking somewhere that they really shouldn't be like, like on a window. I think. So. I think the story definitely hits on some primal fears that people have. And there have been so many accounts of this since Brian Bethel's. Um, so if you go on, there's some subreddits on this and there's a book I'm going to be talking about in a little bit, when he tells all kinds of stories, he's done a lot of research and interviewed a lot of people who have experienced this, or at least say that they've done. So, but the stories all seem to follow kind of a familiar pattern. So someone hears a knock on their door or their car window, you know, there are these kids and there's always a request to be led in. It's. Some people describe it as a fairly forceful request, but it's always like, it's kind of like polite, pseudo, polite with like a threat underneath of it. In his stories. The person is almost always overcome by a sense of dread or in some cases, panic and terror. Um, and usually the dread gets to the point that the person they're kind of their, I guess their fight instinct clicks, it snaps in and they slam the door in the kids' faces or they drive off if they're in a car as fast as possible. So like 99.9, 9% of the stories, like I've never read a story where the person actually let's lets the kids in. You know, that was going to be my next question. Well, somebody said in one of the things I read, they're like, I want to know about all the stories that haven't been told because people who did let them in that's if you let your mind go down that road, I think it gets really scary. But the other part of the story, of course, and part of why they're called what they are is the black eyes. And in a lot of the encounters, people don't really notice the eyes at first because the kids tend to look down or to the side and their eyes really aren't as visible, but always at some point, usually towards the middle to the end of the encounter, they see the eyes and that's often for people like the last straw it's at that point like, Oh, yeah, let me, let me close the door really fast. So there was another story I wanted to share a couple of stories and Brian's was one. But the other one I wanted to share was by the sky, he goes by Jake. I don't think that's his real name, but it was from something called my black eyed kid encounter by Jake on this website, hachette.com. Hachette is a book publisher. So I wasn't sure what this was linked to, but it was just an interesting story. And it follows a lot of the same themes. Yeah. The themes that I talked about. So apparently Jake is a crazy guy because Jake put an ad in Craigslist saying that he really wanted to know if the black kid phenomenon was real. And so he was going to go hang out at a local park. And he said exactly where he was going to be like he was going to be on a certain bench by a certain tree. Um, and if any, any bee case wanted to meet up with him, they could find them there. He was going to be there. Like, I don't know. He picked like one day a week. So he did. And he said that he went for six months and he said in that time he met a lot of weird people. There were a lot of weirdos, but he did not meet any BBKs. So after six months he hadn't had enough. He's like, whatever, this is, it went as far as it was going to go. And he takes the ad down. So the same week, but a little bit later that he, that he took the ad down, there's a knock at his door. And he says that he immediately knew it was one of the black eyed kids and that he went, and these are his words. He went ice cold and he wrote about it. He said, I was wrong about not being afraid of[inaudible]. The fear is on a different level and instinctual primal level. And that story really struck me first of all, because the guy is crazy, you know, but I mean, he's crazy for like, to me, he's crazy for seeking it out. But I think the other thing that was so striking is how he described that fear response and like that knowing in so many of these accounts, talk about fear like that. And they say like, unless it's happened to you, you totally wouldn't get it. It was just like, like a knowing there is something off here, there's something not right.
Speaker 3:It reminds me too a little bit of similarity between men and black in a way, because they kind of just arrive. Usually it's after some UFO incident and they arrive in throughout a place and people can't really put their finger on it and they ask kind of strange questions, things that are kind of out.
Speaker 1:Well, it's so interesting that you say that because this book I'm going to talk about, he actually talks. I mean, he talks about all kinds of interesting things in this book and I highly recommend it, but he does talk about the similarities to the men and black phenomenon. And I think as I tell you about more of these kids, I'm in a little bit, I'm going to talk about some of their characteristics. And I think it's going to remind you even more of the men in plaque.
Speaker 3:Honestly, I didn't read anything about there being, you know, anyone can making the comparison
Speaker 1:Really cool that you picked up on that. And I think you're right. And I hadn't heard about the men in black. Like I, I read that moth man prophecies book, God, like years ago. And I know, um, what's that guy's name? John keel. John keel. Right. And he talks about the men in black in there, but I couldn't remember a lot. So I had to refresh my memory of, you know, what they did, but I think with the men in black, there was also that sense of a threat, right. That they were kind of intimidating you in some way.
Speaker 3:There was something nefarious about them. And I think with the moth man prophesy with, with keel, I think that's the first reference made to minim black, but I could be wrong.
Speaker 1:That's very interesting. I would like to, we should do a podcast on men in black. So yeah, I had mentioned that book that I read and it was it's called black-eyed children, but it's by this guy named David Weatherly who looks like a real character in his author photo, but he looks like he'd be a lot of fun. He's done all kinds of research and writing on the paranormal and he's a good writer. So I really enjoyed this book. It was extremely thorough. He goes into all of the descriptions. He tells like a bunch of, you know, he interviews a lot of people. So he recounts to their stories in their own words. But he also, in the second section of the book, he talks about some of the theories behind the black eyed kids. Like why, what might they be? Why are they here? What do they want? That kind of thing. So, yeah. And again, um, the stories I probably read, I don't know, 20, 25 different stories in that book and they're all while they're different and you know, they're described differently in different words, they're all really similar. So I want to talk a little bit about the characteristics and I, I think these are pretty interesting. So, so the kids, so the kids appearance, what do they look like? Well, in most accounts, they tend to be boys once in a while, somebody will mention a girl that there might be a boy and a girl together they're usually described as preteens to teens. So like 10 years old up to like 16, 17, something like that. And people tend to notice how they're dressed and say that something just seems kind of off. So their clothing has been described as ratty old fashioned ill-fitting baggy they're, they're always dressed in dark colors. Sometimes they wear hoodies, but they're often mistaken for kids who are homeless or maybe who have run away. And when it comes to their skin tone, they're almost always described as extremely pale. Um, sometimes as an olive skin tone, but usually pale in some wouldn't witnesses have said that the skin appeared to have a strange texture and it just somehow did not look right. I'm sure you've read the Christmas Carol or a Christmas. Carol. I love it. Yeah. That's probably one of my favorite books, but I don't know if you remember the part where the ghost of Christmas present at the very end, he lifts up his robe and he shows Scrooge to children. Is it ignorance, ignorance, and want, I think yes. Ignorance and want, and just made me think of that too. That's interesting. I had never thought about that. That I like that a whole lot. Yeah. Yeah. Because they do, they look so, um, you know, apparently they're very thin nobody's ever described chunky black-eyed kid in, you know, they, they just look very, I guess, kind of unkempt and not really well cared for, but the one thing people don't usually notice right away, interestingly enough, are the eyes because the kids are usually looking down and kind of looking down where they're talking to you. Um, or they're kind of looking off to the side. So I'm in some stories, the kids are alone, but typically, and they remind me of the Mormons. They travel in pairs. Sometimes they're more than two, although I don't think I've read any stories that mentioned that there were more than four. I think four was like the highest number. I mean, I'm not saying none of this is like carved in stone, but from the research I've done. So the kids are always, they always have a request to be led inside and it's either a home or like someplace like somebody's place of employment or a car and people. I know. Where would you rather them come like your car or your home? That's a hard, I think I would rather always come to my home and then my car, see, I feel, I feel the opposite because if they're, if they're in my car or at my car, I mean, they're not going to know where I live, but if they're at my house and they like, they've cornered me, well, I feel that if I'm
Speaker 3:In my car, I'm most likely alone. And if I'm at home, then I'm in the comfort of my own home. And then I also have my dogs, especially my bigger dog. It makes me feel better
Speaker 1:For your wife out there. Right.
Speaker 3:I don't think she's going to be able to manage, to do much of anything, but I could be wrong.
Speaker 1:Oh, we try to make them a meal or something. She, she would probably scold them. She probably would actually. That's super funny.
Speaker 3:My biggest fears too, is a lot of times on Reddit or on YouTube, they'll read stories from Reddit and a common theme will be middle of nowhere stories. And oftentimes it'll involve your car breaking down. And to me that's so scary. So maybe that's why.
Speaker 1:No, I didn't think of that. I mean, I guess I was imagining like, I'm going to the grocery store or I'm at the CVS, like late one night to pick up something or you know, something the dairy queen actually passed out. Yeah. Yeah. The dairy feed actually I'd go there for too often. I must admit, but there's a,
Speaker 3:There's a song by I'm showing you my, my lesbian, uh, roots, but there's a story. There's a song by Amy Ray, the Indigo girls it's called dairy queen. And one of the lines is, um, I was drunk and mean down by the dairy queen or you were drunk and mean
Speaker 1:What that song written about you.
Speaker 3:That's a good white trash along. That could totally get me.
Speaker 1:Oh my God. That's hilarious. My family, like they think, uh, going to the dairy queen is the biggest treat. So whenever, whenever I come to visit, mom's like, you want to go to the dairy queen in fact, next time, you know, when we can actually see each other again and see people, if you come and visit my family, my mom will most certainly insist that she takes you to the dairy queen. So I'm going to have to get drunk first or take, take some meds and pass out the backseat card. Oh God. So people have described their, like their speech patterns. It's kind of weird. And they requests have been described as insistent, sometimes overly polite. But then at the same time, like strangely forceful, you know, like very persuasive or at least they're trying to be persuasive. Some people have said their speech and its repetitive nature has an almost hypnotic quality. I just have to tell you what my husband said. I was telling him about the black guide kids earlier. And I'm like, you know, he's like, well, does anybody ever let them in? I'm like, well, most of the stories they don't. And he's like, well, I feel bad for these kids. They're like real loops. I'm like, well, I mean, here in Brian's the one who picked up the,
Speaker 3:The angry homeless person and around for what, a couple of hours or an hour. And the guy kept getting more and more aggressive as time went on. So we both picked up somebody.
Speaker 1:Um, well I picked up somebody from the neighborhood, but she was drunk off her and I thought she would never get o ur Doris.
Speaker 3:And Brian is also, yeah, I was just going, say, get, and then you pick her up and like she's screaming was screaming and cursing in the car. And then she passed out at the bottom of the Hill.
Speaker 1:Yes. And I had to like wake her up and get her into the, get her out of my car. I'm like,, no good deed goes unpunished. But Brian picked up some crazy guy and like he took him wherever he wanted to go. I don't remember where that was, but the guy, several places, if I remember correctly, it was several places. I had forgotten that. Oh my God. So yeah, he, he took him on all his errands. And so he, um, when he gets home, like the next day I go into the car and there's like the cigar with like a price tag on it that says something like 39, nine, the guy forgot his cigar, which I have a feeling i t was probably stolen. So I still have, we have a cigar in our h ouse.
Speaker 3:He's going to have to spoke at this Christmas together. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:That would be funny. I smoked a cigar once in a fraternity house. It was really nasty. I mean, I didn't smoke the whole thing. I attempted to be like a real, I wanted to be like one of the boys and show how tough I was. And I think I like choked. Basically.
Speaker 3:I smoke this huge cigar. My parents said that I could do it. Well, the story behind it is, um, showing my Appalachian roots here, but we would go see my grandmother and my family. And on the way there you, when you enter Virginia, and then when you're coming back home, there was a Stuckey East. Do you remember? Stuckey's no, it's not a car wash, is it? No, no. It's Stuckey's and I don't even know if they're in existence anymore, but you would go there and just get like, it's kind of like a five and dime, but more upscale. Okay. And so it's like a souvenir shop basically. So I got this huge cigar from there and I don't know like why a child would be able to, Oh, I was young. I was probably, I wasn't older than 10 cigar was probably as big as my laptop. So light that thing up. Yeah. They let me light it and it made me so sick to my stomach. Oh my God.
Speaker 1:Where did you smoke it in? Inside the car? No,
Speaker 3:I smoked it. I spoke to it at home. That is the gambit story that you've ever told me.
Speaker 1:Tell me a lot of stories and I don't know if it is the damnest, but it is certainly, I'm just shocked. Like, I mean, I'm just completely shocked. Wow.
Speaker 3:I'm just a font of up Appalachia.
Speaker 1:I am too. I just, I think I, I so badly when I, now we're going into a whole different thing, but we might as well digress.
Speaker 3:Um, when I was growing up in
Speaker 1:Appalachia, like I so badly wanted to not be from there that like I tried to like be my own life coach, which I'm really ashamed of now. Like, so that I wouldn't be department's veneer of like fake sophistication. So, you know, occasionally I think I can be a little pretentious and that's totally where that comes from. Cause it's wanting to cover up. What I saw is like, I don't know, like I just wanted to reject it cause I thought I'd get stuck forever. But yeah, God, I love that cigar story. Anyway, black back to the black eyed kids. So in most of the stories, their mannerisms and speech are really odd. And I don't know if I've said this already, ironically, but they tend to repeat themselves without a lot of variation. So if you ask them a question, like if they say, please ma'am, can I get into your car? I need to go to the grocery store and you say, well, are you lost? Like where are your parents? Why do you need to go to the grocery store? They're not going to answer the question. They're just going to say, please, ma'am, I'm just a kid and I need to get in your car please. Won't you ask me in your car. That's kind of how the conversation will go. Um, so like they're really insistent, like they'll knock and knock and knock until somebody answers. And when people have told them, when they finally get really creeped out and closed the door, a lot of stories, people will say that the knocking continues for quite a while after they finally closed the door, which is to me is just creepy as hell. So they also say stuff like you won't take long. We won't be long trying to, and I don't really know what their tone of voice is. I'm imagining that it's probably not the way I'm saying it. Like it's much more robotic. Some people have said they almost came across as robots
Speaker 3:And that's what the men in black too. I think it was the same thing. Some similarities there is that they sounded robotic or maybe like their speech was stilted.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Almost like we might sound, if we're speaking foreign language, like I'm trying to speak French, but um, my friend has coming out like textbook French rather than, you know, the French who would speak in day to day, that kind of thing. Or like they just learned a word. People say that about these kids too. Um, and sometimes they said you could almost see them like making a conscious effort to like say a word, right. Or to like recall a word like they had memorized it or something. So that's another really interesting link between the black ID kids and the men in black. It makes you wonder if this is like an urban legend. That's kind of a spinoff of men and black, but I don't know.
Speaker 3:No, I think it's interesting too, that there's that aspect to it again, of you allowing them in giving some something permission as, for example, with, um, possession. They say that if you do certain things that you're opening up yourself to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I hadn't thought about that. But the one that I really did think about that, you know, where you have to ask permission to enter as vampires, because according to him, like you, you know, the vampire can't come over the threshold unless you invite him or her. And so yeah,
Speaker 3:It's like a theme. I don't know if it's just a way to blame, you know, blame somebody or especially women know.
Speaker 1:But yeah, there is that similarity similarity too. I definitely got something I want to think about more because I just think it's a really interesting detail. Um, so a lot of people also see said that they seem kind of emotionless. Like they're just kind of going through the motions and yet they're strangely persuasive. So some people said that they felt a lot of people say they felt almost like they were being hypnotized, that there was a part of them that was thinking like their minds were kind of separated into two parts. One part was like, you know, these, these are just kids. Like let them in, like, they're fine. Um, and there's this other part that's kind of holding back and going like, wait, like there's something really off here. And usually it seems like it's that part that wins out. But most of the, in most of the stories, the kids seem to appear out of nowhere and they seem to vanish without a trace. Once the person refuses to let them in. I think if a kid I would let a kid into my car, if they came running up to it, screaming and banging on the door, I'd let them in. But it's kind of casual, you know, knocking and asking to be let in. First of all, it's like who nowadays is going to let a child into the car unless it's an absolute emergency nowadays you'd think like, well, what could the kids say about you if you let them in, right? Like, I'd be afraid that a kid in and like, they're going to be like, Oh, like I was molested or God forbid you take them somewhere and you get in a wreck and then you, somebody whose kid has been hurt. A story that I listened to, uh, today, briefly had talked about this man who had gone camping near the beach. And these kids showed up at his tent asking to be let in. And I'm thinking what, what person in the right mind would let them in to a tent out in the middle of nowhere, not me, but just so, I mean, I feel like everybody who listens to this podcast, like do not let these kids know me though. I hate kids anyway. So I'm definitely not living in a Bratton in my car. We call nine one one first. Yeah. That's part of my hard crusty exterior, but so they're definitely not getting in my car. Now, if it's a kitten, you better believe I'm going to stop. The wheels will be screeching, definitely going to let them in a couple of days ago, I sent you that picture a relative of mine, of course, in the Appalachians, saw this kitten out in the middle of the road, picked it up and it was a Bobcat that was so unbelievable. Oh my God. A little bit, except for the picture you sent me. But anyway, I digress. Yeah. I could go on and tell you about my baby bunny story, but I mean, it doesn't sound like a good one. So please don't tell me, keep going. Let's just say I've learned to not interfere with nature. So going on about the black kids. So, um, witnesses described feeling that their requests though, seemingly polite on the surface that there there's some health threatening. Also the kids are, they're extremely persistent. And one story I read the person was so freaked out and then they back away from the door. They make sure it's locked. And then they look to the side, I guess there was a window and the kid had their face pressed up against the window. Just like with the black eyes, just boring into them. Can you imagine I would scream so loud and McCall everybody I knew to come over and I would tell you probably call me and I'd be like, Oh no, I would come you're my bestie. So I would come, the knocks are also described as, as really insistent, um, with like little variation, like they're not doing a shave and a haircut they're doing like, not knock. And, uh, so it was just like very, I don't even know the word, like very rote or something. Um, and this is interesting. So in some accounts, certainly not every story, but some of them, they say that either while they're talking with the kids or in other stories, it's like after they've left, people are overwhelmed by this really foul smell and people have described it as rotten eggs. They said it, one person said it smelled like dirty diapers or rotting trash, or like a rotting animal carcass. And I thought that was interesting
Speaker 3:Or the flatwoods monster.
Speaker 1:Right. Cause he was supposed to be smelly too. Wasn't he smelled of sulfur software and you know, software of course is related to the devil associate that. So is it like from hell, is that why it's smelling like this? Or are these just like some nasty kids who haven't had a bath in awhile? I mean, but I thought that was really interesting. People who've described the smell, said it was like over, it would overcome you. So I was just trying to think about this. I mean, trying to imagine what it would be like to look into somebody's eyes that were completely black, because obviously I have no experience with that. Um, and I'm just thinking about, okay, so what is it the eyes do for us? So I think our eyes are part of our communication. If I'm talking to you face to face, like I'm kind of looking in your eyes to kind of see, to gauge like how you're taking in the information I'm giving you and to kind of, you know, like we use our eyes. It's like me, our mirror neurons, I think is what's happening with our brains, but it's, it helps us kind of know how to respond, you know, to how to adjust our behavior, our words accordingly. I mean, I think that's part of it and you see another person's intention in their eyes. I think you can't see that it's like, there's this huge part of human interaction that's blocked off. And, and that's, I think that's, that's a creepy thing to think about because how do you read somebodies intent?
Speaker 3:That's a great point. I mean, and they talk about micro expressions and being able to read that.
Speaker 1:And I think you can tell a lot about a person from looking in their eyes. I really do. You know, I know we've known some people in our lives and we were like, you know, there was just nothing going on there. It was a very surface-y. Um, and there are other people where you just, you know, I don't know, you can connect, I think with, with eyes. I mean, would that creep you out?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, of course it would creep me out. I mean, any aspect of the story creeps you out? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So other people have said that they often experienced this extreme monies, like that lingers way after the encounter. And sometimes people have reported what sounds to me almost like a PTSD reaction?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, of course, like every knock at your door that would just take you right back to that place. I mean, that's something I don't think you could ever get over
Speaker 1:The expectation that somebody could knock on the door, you know, even if they talk never comes. And actually I have to say this like Halloween, although I used to like to go trick or treating as a kid, like sometimes Halloween freaks me out because it's the anticipation of waiting for the knocks on the door. And then if they don't come, like where are they? And you know, I don't know. I don't like that anticipation and
Speaker 3:My neighborhood, no one knocks on the door, so I don't
Speaker 1:Have to worry about it. And they don't really hear either because they're just like, we're kind of set back. So I think I mentioned that I did see just a little tiny clip of Brian Bethel, who was apparently the first, according to most sources, the person who first first recorded one of these experiences who was on this show, which I think I vaguely remember called monsters and mysteries in America. Do you remember that show? It was on the snow and all that. We no longer get, I don't know if it exists anymore called destination America. They had, it was like the paranormal channel. It's like what travel channel is now. So it was all these paranormal shows. Um, but one of the things he said on that, in that clip I saw, which is, he said, Oh, what happens to those who do given to the black eyed kids, relentless requests? Um, so like, I don't know if he said it in exactly those words, but like w you know, I he'd like to hear the stories of the people who actually let them in, maybe what happens to them, you know, did anybody ever let them in? So David, by the way, he wrote that book, I told you about, he has a bunch of theories about what these things could possibly be. And that's one of the things I like about his book. Again, it's just like so thorough, but he, I mean, he covers everything from like, maybe they're demonic entities, maybe they're aliens or alien human hybrids, you know, they could be vampires. He talks about this kind of Asian folk lore has this thing called hungry ghost. I think it's from, I don't know what part of Asia, maybe China, I'm not sure, but that's, that's a whole interesting thing, um, in its own, right. There's just like all kinds of theories. Some of them were that like something about the TOPA, uh, which is this thick, it's like maybe this Hindi folklore. So, and I don't know. I mean, I don't know where these things are from, and I can't say that I necessarily believe the accounts are true, but for some reason that has no correlation to the fear that I feel when I think about them. I just think that they're scary as hell. And it plays on a lot of tropes and themes. I think, um, there's scary. Like, you know, we'd already talked about, I don't know if we talked about this or not, but like the idea of the creepy child, you know, there are a lot of movies and stories about like weird creepy kids, creepy kids are just too much for me. Have you ever had an experience that you just felt like you couldn't explain it, it just really gave you the creeps or an encounter or anything like that? I have, like three of those warm is really recent. I don't know if you remember. I was at my mom's a few weeks ago and I was sleeping on the couch and my father died not too long ago. I kept hearing like the door opening one of the doors and it just was really unsettling. And you could tell about which direction it was coming. Like was it, it was just, it was strange. It is. And it happened throughout the night. And then I had that incident with a Weegee board at college. The other time that I can think of off the top of my head is when me and my friend, my childhood friend were having a seance. And there were these votive candles that were in glass. And then they burst when we were doing our little seance and it scared hell out of us. That reminds me of that. I think I told you, and I think I talked about her on here on a previous episode when we were having the Weegee board thing of college, the light, you know, the light bulb in the ceiling, just like completely blue during it makes you wonder, you know, people say spirit is energy. Just makes you wonder, you know, I see the energy never goes away. Right? Yeah. Energy is never.
Speaker 4:So you never, truly, never truly die. You just go to like different, different dimension, I guess. Yeah. There's something comforting. And that I think there is. Yeah. Yeah. Like, like Ruth, like Ruth that's. Right. So we should probably do a toast to Ruth. I still have just a little bit left in my drink. Here's two notorious RBG. I'll drink to that and we're going to carry on and we're going to fight the good fight. Cheers. Thank you to everyone who listens. The best thing you can do to help us grow is to like review and subscribe on iTunes and even better yet tweet about us or post about us on Facebook. Tell your friends if you think they would like us and have a good night.
Speaker 2:[inaudible].