Beneath Your Bed Podcast
Beneath Your Bed Podcast
Terror from the Woods
We like to think we can protect ourselves and those we love from danger. But what happens when we can't? Tonight we'll tell the story of one family left defenseless against otherworldly predators.
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Paranormal Witness
Season 3, Episode 9
https://www.syfy.com/paranormal-witness/episodes/season/3/episode/9/the-wolf-pack
Dogman Encounters
https://dogmanencounters.com/maine-encounters/
Dogman Monsters Are Real/ FaceBook Group - Dogman Mystery
Wolf Pack - Shelley Rockwell-Martin Separates Fact From Fiction
http://dogman-monsters-are-real.blogspot.com/2013/08/wolf-pack-shelley-rockwell-martin.html
National UFO Reporting Center
Real Wolfmen: True Encounters in Modern America by Linda S. Godfrey (2012)
https://www.amazon.com/Real-Wolfmen-Encounters-Modern-America/dp/1585429082
We like to think that we can protect ourselves and those we love from danger, but what happens when we can't? So tonight we'll tell the story of one family left defenseless against other worldly predators.
Speaker 2:Jen, how are you? My friend, Hey, I'm doing well, my friend,
Speaker 1:And it's good to be on tonight. It is. I've been looking forward to it all week. It's a great way to unwind. Definitely it's even better than the weekends. I think. Absolutely. I mean, I look forward to the entire thing, but I also look forward to the cocktail that we share because it's kind of like nice together time and we get to learn new information and share a drink and connect with all of our listeners. And that's, that's exciting. And speaking of listeners, that's a good segue, Jen. We didn't even plan that. I don't really plan anything. It's really much organic as you can tell kind of like our lives. Yes. Yeah. Speaking of our listeners, we do want to give a shout out to some people who have been actually pretty faithful listeners. We, you don't know how much we appreciate you because I mean, we would do this anyway because we're having a good time and we're, we're learning a lot and enjoying ourselves, but it means so much to us that some of you are tuning in to listen and that you're tuning in more than a couple of times. So first off I want to thank our listeners in Clichy on the yield of false, which I believe is near par, uh, uh, new, uh, equity. I probably really grappled that, but forgive me. I did my best. We also want to thank our friends in Lake Stevens, Washington in Stanford, Connecticut. I wonder if Stanford is my brother-in-law. He might be Morgantown, Morgantown, West Virginia, which is maybe our friend Colby, um, who we are hoping Colby. Yay. Colby. We're hoping to have you on the show in the new year. And I just have to say about Colby too. I follow him on Facebook and he is like amazing at thrifting and finding like the coolest stuff. Um, when he's thrifting, which is an interest of mine as well. So I'm like always amazed. Um, we also have somebody from Frazier's bottom, West Virginia, which is not too far from Huntington where I grew up. So I'm really curious who that is. I love my love, my fellow West Virginians. Um, we have rural Ridge, Pennsylvania, and we have, uh, South salt Lake, Utah, just a little, um, thing. My, my husband was a Vista and he was in salt Lake for, I think about a year when he was like, I don't know, 22 or 23. Apparently he smoked a lot of pot there. So it was like the one time in his life. And I would like to give a shout out to some of our other listeners. Um, we have a listener from Sanger, Texas, Chesapeake, Virginia, Highland Springs, Virginia Tuckahoe, Virginia, Washington, Virginia area Lake shore, Maryland, Knoxville, Tennessee, and Tacoma, Washington. Thank you. That is amazing. It's exciting to think about people listening all over. I love it. So welcome. We're so glad you're with us on this crazy journey. So what are you having to drink tonight? My friend, well, I feel like that's a really, I feel like that's a really important question tonight because I've already had one. I've had one of what I'm drinking already. I don't usually have more than one drink during the week nights and I don't drink every night. I just don't want people to think that you kind of do. I do not, but that is neither here nor there. What is here is the fact that I have this lovely. I have this lovely drink in front of me. And it is a cosmopolitan, which I have never made, but it's one of my favorite drinks to order. It's kind of a girly drink, but I love it. Can you hold it up so I can see it? Yeah. And he's in a new service now, so we can see each other. So that means I have to put makeup on because I don't wanna, I don't wanna look like a, she doesn't want her to get fast lunch. I know. I don't want to look like a Sasquatch. It's not even so much that I don't want you to see me. I don't want to see myself. I think it's more about that. It's like, am I really that ugly? I think everybody feels that way about themselves online. Can you see it? I can see it. So it should be Pinker. But, um, so I'll tell you what's in it. It's vodka and it is Quantro which I have to tell you that stuff ain't cheap. Cause I went to the liquor store to get some, but boy it smells so delightful and it has fresh squeezed lime juice and then cranberry juice. But I used a pink, cranberry juice and mine is like super light. So it's like a very pale pale pink. So yeah, it's delicious. It's really good. And as kind of boozy, can you see what I'm holding up here? I'm gonna, I need to minimize my notes. Let me just go back to here. Yeah. Oh, it's in your fancy, it's in your fancy hurricane glass. What is that? I put most drinks in my hurricane glass because I can double up anything else I would have to. That's a good idea to make another drink. So I'm having to do over, do over. Yeah. I'm having to do over of my, my Thai disaster. Gosh, let me hold that thing up again. I need to see it. Okay. It looks good. And that's what a, my tie should look like. Yes. And it's not separating either. So it's absolutely delicious and it has run two different types of rum, clear rum, coconut rum, grenadine syrup, pineapple juice, orange juice and ice. And it's amazing. I love a good Mai Tai. I usually get a Mai Tai at the Thai restaurant near here. They have, they have really good ones. I've never made one. It just seems so ambitious to make one. I'm almost halfway through it. I forgot to eat dinner tonight. I'm just gonna have some crackers Lord Jen. So I'll do my best to stay on task tonight. So tonight, tonight, I'm going to talk about, I don't even know if I told you what I was going to talk about tonight. I don't think you did tell me you told me like something, but Jen, I forgot. I'm sorry. I'm just going to be honest. Fine. It's fine. So I've been watching, I've been watching that series, paranormal witness, you know, some of them are really well done. So I've watched several of those and just looking at the ones that kinda, I thought would stand out to me and I'm wanting to cover one because it's truly one of the creepiest stories that I've heard involving. Cryptids hilarious, scary, other than Bigfoot and bigfoots, just really a of mine. It's
Speaker 3:Not really that I'm scared that Bigfoot is going to come and get me. Or if I run into a big foot in the wild, I don't know. I mean maybe if that happens, I'd feel differently when I think of cryptids I think of big foot that doesn't really scare me that much, but this does, and just cryptids in general, don't scare me. But when I came across the show and I watched it, it really, really creeped me out. You can watch it on paranormal witness. It's the third season and it's episode nine.
Speaker 1:Okay. I'm going to write that down so I can catch it tonight. Episode third season, episode nine.
Speaker 3:Cool. I'm going to follow the storyline that's in this episode, but I'm also going to add some things to it as well, because there were some embellishments that the wife, it involves a couple. The name of the couple is Eric and Shelly Martin. And when doing more research, I came across that Shelly Martin was not completely happy with how that episode was filmed or really did. Yeah. So she wasn't happy with some of the embellishments, but when I go back and I look at it, um, and I'll tell you later, I'll tell you later what she's, what she was unhappy with with, uh, with the episode. And she never identified this there, these creatures as being wolves necessarily, or I didn't hear that in the episode. So let me start my friend. Let me regale you with the story. Cool. I'm looking forward to being really scared. Okay. Maybe you won't find it frightening, but I find it frightening. But then again, as we've discussed, the, the more and more we go along with these episodes, we're finding a lot of things that we're afraid of. This story takes place in Palmyra, Maine in 2006 and Palmyra is in central Maine. And it's a very small town of less than, or at least at this time, it was, I believe it was less than 2000 people or right around the 2000 Mark. And how it starts is, is that Eric and Shelly Martin and their teenage daughter, Chelsea, they moved to pal Myra. And it was a difficult move from them. And the reason why they moved is because Eric, he had worked in a paper mill for over 20 years. He worked with machinery and he ended up blowing out a bunch of disks in his back. And so he was permanently disabled. Oh wow. And so Shelly wanted to get a job or, or had gotten a job that would be closer to home so she could take care of him. So they find this farm, or she finds this farm at a local paper. It was a beautiful farm, lots of room fields. It was secluded entirely surrounded by these really dense woods. And I didn't come across as far as like how large the property was or the important part is it was just really, really remote. That sounds kind of
Speaker 1:Like heaven, but also like it could be really scary.
Speaker 3:Anything that's out in the middle of the middle of nowhere. I mean, I think it's beautiful, but at the same time, I think it is frightening. Especially if, you know, if you're just there with your immediate family. Right. I would be very, very scared when,
Speaker 1:When my mother-in-law was planning to live with us, we went to look for, cause we thought we would need a bigger house. So we went to look for one, we went way
Speaker 3:South of the County and found this beautiful house to run, but it was surrounded by trees and forest. I was all for it. And she was like, there are too many trees, so we ended up not renting it. But yeah, she definitely, maybe she helped us Dodge, a bullet or something. Did she ever elaborate or no, she was just really freaked out by the rural nature. I mean, she was from rural, well kind of like town Ireland, but, but yeah, she was, she did not, she did not get a good vibe, obviously. So it's important to, to point out with Eric is that he's an avid outdoorsman. He was an avid Hunter. Shelly though. She was really uncomfortable with having guns in the house. So when they moved there, Eric had his older son who didn't live there in the same residence. He had his older son come over and they built like the strong box. They put all the guns in there and then they put it in the barn and they'll lock the barn. And as I was saying, Eric came from a long line of hunters. He said that he had hunted just about everything that you could hunt and in Maine, that was legal, including Shelly. Oh my God. All right. I'm sorry. Oh, geez. Um, I'm past halfway here, Jen. Okay. Now this is interesting. So they make a habit of it to develop some type of routine and to do something together. And I think to keep their mind off of those circumstances, that are the circumstances that were impacting their lives at that time. So they would sit out back on the porch every evening. So one night when they're out there, they're sitting out there just chit chatting and Shelly notices some lights in the woods. They would like pulsate. So they would come on really strong and then they would fade out and she pointed out to Eric, like, do you see that? And Eric son came to the house and he could see it too. At first he said that he thought it was like a flashlight in the distance, but he made a statement that just kind of resonated with me. And he had said, this is a quote about the lights. Um, but it seemed the more we noticed, the more it started changing and moving around. And so they decided, they thought, well, it could be poachers. He went out there with his dad, they had their guns and they were looking around. Eric was saying that it was really, really quiet. He just, just had this eerie feeling. And when you would step on a branch or a twig, it would like echo and you just couldn't hear anything else. So they split up and they looked around and Eric just felt like he was being watched. And he just became really, really uneasy. And at one point he said that he thought he saw something to the left of him, but it disappeared really quickly while they're out there. They couldn't find any indication that it was anyone or animals had been there either the next day or within a few days. It seemed, they didn't give a specific timeline. Chelsea went for a walk in the woods with her, with her boyfriend, Nate he's now her husband. And they were walking the dogs and the dogs got up ahead of them. And when they caught up with the dogs, the dogs were barking by this whole. When you watch the episode, it looks like it's some really large, some type of den that some type of animal has dug. But when you listen to what Nate says, he, he describes it as a hole that was intentionally dog, either by a person or by an animal. Chelsea was uneasy and she just wanted to go home. So they went home. I don't blame Chelsea. Yeah. I don't blame her either. On Memorial day, weekend or Memorial weekend, Eric and Shelley are sitting outside on their back porch. And they said it was unusually quiet. There was like, no sheep, no horses, no cows, no deer because of this. It seems like she, she was curious. So she picks up this flashlight or these really like large flashlights. It looks like a kind of like a floodlight, a little bit. One of those, not like your typical flashlight or at least that's how it was portrayed in this episode. And she grabs it and she begins looking in the field and she didn't see anything. So she just turned the flashlight off and she sat back down. And after she put the light down, Eric got this feeling that he just, he just felt like this really, he was overcome with his feeling that they were in danger. It's just really, really, really overwhelming, very strong feelings. So, okay. He doesn't tell her that. So Eric, he grabbed her by the shirt and he was trying to pull her along. Like, let's go inside, let's go inside. And she could tell that he was afraid. All of a sudden she could hear this rustling. So she takes a flashlight again and she points it in the direction of the noise. And then they saw these three set of eyes looking right back at them and Jesus. And they described them as almost being fluorescent. And then they hear another sound and they point the flashlight in that direction. And they see two more of these things. Eric said that it appeared as if they were mad and that they wanted to come at them. So they rushed into the house and they locked the doors and then they sit down on the floor, you know, just trying to get it. They don't want them to see them. Yeah. But Shelly, she wants to look at them again. So she, she takes a flashlight and she shows it out there again. And he's telling her not to do that. But she said that she just wanted to get another look at them because she just wanted to make sense of what she was seeing and all she, all they could see at this point where the eyes, the way they described it, they said, clearly it was not a bear, but it was huge. And it was really dangerous looking in the episode they look Wolf like, and they could stand on two legs. So at some point they look like they're crouching and look like, you know, like a Wolf light thing. And then they would stand and they'd have like these kind of spindly Harry appendages. It's really frightening appendages like legs or yeah, like legs or front legs and okay. They could either be on all fours or appear to be on all fours or they could stand on my legs and arms would be kind of hanging down. Yeah. Um, so they're seeing this they're really freaked out by it. They don't know what it is, but they know it's not like any other form of wildlife that they've ever seen. And he should know because he's a Hunter and you know, a Hunter from Maine and the deep woods of Maine. So he knows what he's talking about. So their panic and just like anybody else, they're trying to figure out, you know, what do we do? And Eric felt really helpless because, and he describes this or he States this several times during this particular episode that he just felt so helpless because, you know, he viewed as being a husband and a father. It was his job to protect his family, but he couldn't do it. You know, he's injured. He doesn't have his weapons and he really just doesn't know what to do at this point. He wasn't even sure that they would be safe in the house if they didn't have weapons. So we think, Oh, I was just going to ask, what did Kelly do? So Shelly runs upstairs to check on Chelsea. And TLC's probably around 17 at this point in time and she's tired and she's a teen and she wakes her and she's like, you know, I want you to come look at this, come look at this. And so Chelsea gets up she's bleary-eyed and she's like, whatever, I'm going back to bed. So while she's checking on Chelsea and she tells Eric not to go outside, he decides that he's going to go to his truck. So he's thinking if I can just get to my truck, I can back it up to the house and I can get my family and we can leave. But it's 25, 30 feet away. He severely injured. He's in a lot of pain and it's affecting his gate and he decides he's going to do it. So he makes a break for it. This reminds me of night of the living dead. You know, when they're deciding that they're going to try to make a run for it and get in the car. Yeah. Yeah. And so he goes, and he goes out to the truck and he's fumbling with his keys and he can see these things. They were in a distance and then all the sensor lights went off and he saw one of these things. Oh my God. Yeah. And he was afraid it was going to attack him, but that, it just kind of disappeared. It like disappeared. Like it ran away or just disappear like it, like it ran away. And if you, if you watch the episode, it makes it look like this thing is like four feet from him. And that's one of the things that Shelley disputed later, she was saying that it wasn't that close to him, but it takes off. He goes back in the house and she's of course off at him because he went out there when she begged him not to go and they decide they're going to call nine one one. So she calls nine one one. And she was trying to explain what was going on. That there were these things that were trying to, you know, attack them or get in the house. And they probably thought she was crazy. And they did. And I think it was an officer she was speaking to. Cause I have a feeling this town was so small that you probably didn't have dispatch is my guess, but I don't know that for sure. So she's trying to explain, like there are these things and they're trying to get in the house or they're going to attack us and the person on the other line officer or dispatch or whatever is saying, well, is it, you know, is it a bear or a dog or a moose? And she's like, no, no, no, it's not any of those things. And so what the officer told her to do or dispatch told her to do is just lock all the doors and the windows and then they just hung up on her. And so they, at this point they feel like, okay, they're really on their own. And I don't know if they didn't know anyone in that town. And I don't know how far the son lived, their adult son lives. But I guess that's the only part of the story to me, that kind of doesn't mesh is that I know that I would be calling my family, my friends to get your guns and coming out there, come out there. But I don't know what the circumstances were. They never explained that. And two, I think if you, you know, if you live in the country, I've known like people seem to be very self-sufficient and they really don't like to ask for help. That's true. So maybe that played into it as well versus you or me. I mean, it would be, you know, we would call everyone and he sounds like he was definitely a guy who believed in this masculine code. Like I need to protect my family. You know, I don't need to call in all of this help. I can handle it kind of thing. Am I right? Or, yeah, he just, yeah, he was very much adhere to that code. He definitely had that mindset that, you know, I'm the man, I'm the husband, I'm, you know, the, uh, the father and I need to protect my family, but he was feeling really inadequate because of the circumstances and you know, his health. And I would imagine because it was health and also because he didn't have anything to protect them with. So he decides, I don't know where at this point, I don't know if she went, I think Shelly went maybe back upstairs to, to wake Chelsea, to really wake her up this time. And he decides that he's like, I have to have to go and get my guns or I have to get a gun. And it's in the barn. It's a great deal of distance away. And he could see those things off in the distance. He decides that he's going to go out and try to do this. He started thinking that when he initially went out to his truck and the flood lights came on and the sensor lights came on, that's when the, the beast or whatever it was took off. So he was thinking if I go out there, I set the sensors off and then I try to use that time to get to the barn. Okay. Well that makes some sense. Uh, I don't know. It didn't seem like a really good plan to me, but Hey, so I mean, if you have to do it, I mean, at least he had, at least he had somewhat of a plan, so he's going out there and he's trying to trip the sensor and it comes on. And then he sees these things and they're to the left, to the right of him and the lights still on at that point. So I guess that was keeping them at Bay. They were kind of on the periphery, but they were taking that formation, like wolves do or animals would do when they're going to attack, they're going to pack in there and attack someone. So he manages to get back in the house while the light was still on. He stumbles inside, he runs into Shelly and then they hear something and they realize that these things are on the porch. They are not, they are not on the porch. Yes, they're on the porch. So, Oh, they decide at this point they just decide, okay, what are we going to do? We're just going to go into our bedroom. We're all going to get on the bed and we're just gonna wait. And they, you know, it was a really long night they're waiting. And they said that it was disconcerting because they could hear these things outside on the porch. And they just realize that the only thing that was keeping them apart was a wall or a window because there was even a window in that room was their bedroom, was their bedroom on the bottom floor where the porch was. That's a good question. Because when you look at it, it almost seemed like in the episode that it was on the bottom floor, but I'm not certain, I know Chelsea's room was upstairs, but
Speaker 1:They had a view on them. So like from their bedroom, they could see what was going on out there. Cause I think I, it would make me so think what would be most terrifying would be maybe upstairs and not be able to see what's going on. And then if something comes in the house
Speaker 3:Cornered, right, you're trapped. She didn't look out again. As far as I could tell, she didn't look out again. They didn't look out again. They just were on the bed, just huddle close together. And he's trying to reassure her that, you know, things are going to be okay, even though he really wasn't convinced that that was the case. And he was holding her hand and squeezing it. And he said he could just feel her hand tremble and his well, and they could hear like, um, you know, they could hear them outside. They could hear, hear this low guttural sound. So they were terrified. It's terrifying. At this point in the episode, they had fallen asleep and then something comes through the window and then Shelley wakes up and realizes, this is just a dream. Um, and that was something else that was embellished in this episode that she was unhappy with later on. I don't blame her. Yeah. So the next day his son comes over and they go out to look to see if they could find any traces of whatever it was out there on their property. And they didn't find anything. The only thing that they found were like these huge tracks and it looked like they were standing on two legs rather than four.
Speaker 1:What do they look like? I mean, were they, did they have toes? Were they, did they describe it?
Speaker 3:They didn't really spend a whole lot of time on it. It just looked like a ginormous, maybe I think maybe like a Wolf print or something, but don't, I'm not exactly sure. I don't really recall. I think that's what it was. Yeah. So they say to this day that they really, they have no idea what it was. I mean, they won't, you know, they didn't have words for it, but they know what they saw was unlike anything that they'd ever seen. So with that, I'm just, this is conjecture on my part or someone on my part
Speaker 1:I heard of the dog ban. I have heard a little, I mean, I I've heard of it, but I really don't know anything about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I'd heard of it too. And I don't know anything about it either until recently the dog man, it's part of Michigan folklore and it was evidently the first time it was, it was seen, was reportedly seen. It was in 1887 and it was described as this huge creature, like seven foot tall, but it was blue or Amber bride. And it was had like a canine head and like a torso of a man. And so they had like this, you know, really loud how, and it was on the, like a human scream. So that's what, how they described the dog man. And in the depictions, in the episode, that's what these things kind of look like to me, they were very dark when they were showing them, you know, leaving a lot to your imagination, but it kind of looked like, um, a Wolf head or a dog's head almost looked like a bat, like face to, to me. But you know, they were only showing flashes of it in the episode, Eric and Shelly, weren't really going into a lot of detail other than height, you know, what, what it looked like based on what was it, the episode, like the things that you're looking at and these things standing up, it'd be inherited, almost looking like it. Maybe partially has a male torso and this dog like Pitt that's what it sounds like to me is a, is a dog man. So I try to look up some things about it. And there's actually a website that's called, it's called dog man and counters. Wow. Who knew? Yeah. It's just a place for people to come and report on their sightings. And it gives you a little bit of information about, about dog men. And evidently there's like a couple different types. Like one is a canine type one. It has like canine style legs. And you know, it had like a hairy body and there's another type that evidently, and this is based on this website. There's another type, that's like a big foot type. And it has like a bear as John, of course I haven't made this up either. I said, it's got like a big foot body, but we're like a canine muzzle. And like these pointy ears. Interesting also, and this is something I want to explore as well, along with cryptid sightings. A lot of times there's UFO sightings as well. So if you think about in the woods where they saw that pulse, 80 light earlier, um, a few days earlier, or I don't know if it was a couple of weeks, but they saw that and then they have this siding. That is so interesting that you say that because I remember that Milwaukee paranormal conference that we went to the virtual conference, I don't know, a couple, three months ago, they talked about that about how sometimes the UFO encrypted sightings can be simultaneous or they seem to not be such separate entities, but sometimes maybe part of one phenomenon. Yeah. I definitely want to read more about that. I've ordered some books about, about a, um, I can't wait to hear all what you ordered. So Shelly Martin or Shelly, Martin Rockwell, the things that she had stated that, or she cited that were abolishment. So in some of those I've already talked about one, is that the Wolf flight thing or the beast she described it wasn't right up on her husband. Like he wasn't within four or five feet. And when he had gone out to his truck, um, in the episode two, it shows a point where like, they're going through the house and they're looking for weapons and you know, there was banging and that sort of thing. And she said that isn't true either. And she also thought this was really significant. She said that they left out the pond on their property and that's where they would gather really? Yes. And then also the last thing or what I read, or it could be a lot more, but these are the things that I read. She also took issue with where they kind of took creative license and made it look like she had a, she was sleeping and woke up to this thing, crashing through the window when it was really a dream. That's ridiculous. I think that really undermines their credibility, I think, or suggest like, Hey, this is so outlandish that we're going to kind of provide this alternative explanation just to cover our tracks. It's funny you say that because she said the same thing. Yeah. There's a book written by Linda Godfrey. And I don't know if she just writes about cryptids or just about the dog man, but Shelly had been interviewed by her. It was featured in a book called real Wolfman and she seemed like she was pleased with however it was presented in that book. So I'm going to have to try to get a hold of that book. That sounds interesting. And just one more interesting fact or one more fun fact is that according to the national UFO reporting center, who knew there was one. Yeah, I didn't know. They said, and this is as of 2019, that main overall in the, in the nation, they have the fifth highest overall UFO reporting and cements.
Speaker 1:That's fascinating. Do you know who I'm just curious, who has the highest I'm guessing Texas. I don't know why.
Speaker 3:No, not Texas Washington state Montana was one. And I can't remember the others. I just remember Washington state sticking out in my mind. So Lake Stevens, Washington, you better watch out. And Montana was another, so I'm not sure what the others were.
Speaker 1:Wow. That's fascinating. And it's called the UFO reporting site,
Speaker 3:The national UFO reporting
Speaker 1:Center reporting center. So if you see something, you can actually contact them.
Speaker 3:Yes. And the way they describe themselves, it's an organization in the U S that investigates UFO sightings or alien contacts.
Speaker 1:That sounds really cool.
Speaker 3:According to them, that Maine has reported 940 sightings. And I don't think that was just for that year. I think that's overall. We should try to interview someone from there. I would love to interview someone from there. I was wondering that too. I'm like, how do you, how do you find out about some of these stories, unless you do have your own, like the dog, men and counters or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Obviously we, once COVID ends, we need to get out there more. We need to like put ourselves into some precarious positions and see what happens to us.
Speaker 3:Um, so I would love, I would love to interview someone. Who's had an experience like that. And I, I also wanted to touch on too. I was talking to my mom, gosh, I was talking to her Sunday night because you know, we want to do a, uh, a spooky carnival episode. And so I was asking her where her, her love letters from the creepy Carney guy. Oh,
Speaker 1:You finally asked her. That's amazing.
Speaker 3:And she's like, why? I said, because I want to use them for our podcast. And she's like, no, she knows we're doing a podcast. She doesn't even know what a podcast is. I'm sure. So nationally syndicated radio show that, you know, and so, um, she wanted to know the name of it. I'm like, no. And my brother, my brother was shaking his head and he looked like he had a look on his face like, Oh no, you did not.
Speaker 1:I want to listen to that podcast. Oh God.
Speaker 3:I try. And I tried to find the letters. Cause I thought if I find them, I could try to talk her into it. And I looked and I couldn't find them, but my wife says that she thinks she knows where they're at. So I will keep working on my mom, but please do. But that leads up to something when we were talking about this and she's, you know, while we wanted the, the Carney love letters and, you know, she asked what the podcast was about. And I told her it was about supernatural paranormal, true crime type things. And she, and she just brought up on her own. She said, well, do you remember my grandfather? We called him Papo. Do you remember that incident that Paul had, but the light. And I'm like, yeah. And I know I've told you, I think I recently told you about this. Jen, tell me again though, because I don't, I don't remember all the details. So my family, they lived back in a holler. I'm sure you know what a holler is. Not a sure do. So it's basically kind of like a little Valley between, or surrounded by mountains, very narrow. And so I have my aunt and my uncle, they live within walking distance and within sight of my grandparents' home. And I also have, um, another aunt and uncle and a cousin who live back there or at one point to lived back there. My grandfather had told the family this story, and this is before I never heard him tell the story because I mean, I don't ever remember him telling me this cause I was young and it would have scared me to death, but he didn't of course have a car. And he was walking home from town one night. And so he had to walk across like this kind of mountain range. And he said that this light was following him. It was like he said at first he thought it was a flashlight and every time he would stop, the light would stop. Oh, that's crazy. And for the way it was described to me, it sounds like maybe he had noticed it and would turn around periodically or turned to the side to see it. And so it followed him and when he would stop, it would stop. And it just really struck him as he just always wondered what that was. It didn't sound like I didn't hear anybody say, or my mom say that he had indicated like he was overcome with fear or anything like that. He just, he just noticed he noticed it and was kind of weirded out by it. Like just trying to figure out what this was. And he never knew what it was. Well, it followed him to this Apple tree and my grandfather was Bernard found murdered by the Apple tree. Hmm. Well, that's such a story that gives me
Speaker 1:Chills. That gives me total chills. Yeah. So he was found murdered later right later.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So when he, when he had this encounter, he probably, he was in his very early twenties. So at that time it probably would have been an early 1930s when this happened and he was found murdered. Um, uh, gosh, he was found murdered in 1977 and my aunt, my uncle found him and it
Speaker 1:Was the same tree or it was just an Apple tree or
Speaker 3:Was it, it was the same tree. That's crazy. He wasn't like leaning up against the Apple tree or laying against it. He was buying
Speaker 1:The Apple tree or the Apple tree. That's so crazy. You know, at first, when you were talking about that, it made me think of, you know, people talk about the Willow, the whisper, the F uh, I think they call it the Fox fire. Right.
Speaker 3:The kind of, um, there's a natural explanation for it, but kind of like a gas or something. That's um, and it's strange, I've never heard of a, uh, Willow, the wisp stopping when you stop, you know, um, God, it almost sounds like, um, but this was like in the like high it wasn't.
Speaker 1:Okay. So it was high up, you know, that brings me back to the Milwaukee paranormal conference. And I think didn't both go to a session on orbs about how orbs could be perhaps ghostly, but they could also be, um, have something to do with UFO's or there was maybe cryptids as well. And it makes you wonder, like, where's that just energy of his future that he, you know, he was being pursued by his destiny. I mean, that's a really, it's really, really creepy thing. Very, I think Erie is exactly the right word. Yeah, that's this. Wow. That's a story. And then researching the story as well.
Speaker 3:I just started to think about things. Um, my cousin's son had seen a ghost and they think it was a ghost of my grandfather,
Speaker 1:Which wow, that's amazing. So
Speaker 3:The story with that is that my cousin's son, Evan, he, I believe he was going to work that morning. He worked at like a gym or their equivalent of a gym. They called it the field house where the athletes would go and work out. And he went outside to get in his car and he saw a man wandering around. It, scared him. It was an old band and he ran, he ran back inside and I think he called my cousin. I'll have to find out the whole, the complete story on this because I'm just going off my recollection. But I think my cousin told him to go back outside or something, just get in your car type thing. And Evelyn was just too scared to go back out there because you just don't, people just don't pop up there. And certainly an old man,
Speaker 1:It sounds like he almost had a feeling that went along with it. That was like, this is something beyond what's normal or something.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And he, and he ran back in, he was scared. He was immediately scared. And he said that he was just kind of wandering around and then he wasn't there. When he, when he went back out the last
Speaker 1:Strange that makes me feel kind of sad. It makes me sad. I don't know for me. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I find it kind of reassuring. You said, well, that's good. That's good. And again, that's not real far from, that's not real far from the Apple tree. It's very close.
Speaker 1:So maybe like maybe your grandfather looks after the family or something, you know, he kind of protects the land and um, that's, that's so interesting. Oh my gosh. Just the, the thought of him seeing that light above him and then, you know, how however many 40, some years later, um, that's the side of his death is just really so phenomenal.
Speaker 3:It is. It's like, it just gives me the chills, like I was saying, but so just talking about like all these, like the phenomenon that, and the light following my grandfather, him being murdered there being seen there. I mean, it's like, what are the odds of all those things, right.
Speaker 1:It's very strange. It's very, very strange. And you know, you're just one family. I think if you talk to families around, you know, I think probably every family has a tale of some sort, you know, even if we don't know it, maybe it was back a generation or two generations or maybe seven generations, but people I think are constantly having experiences that they can't really explain, not constantly, but I just think there are far more common than we really think. But sometimes I get pushed under the rug, like, you know, their shame and talking about them or, you know, you don't want people to think you're crazy, but it's, it seems like it's part of the human experience to me to have things that you can't explain. I think so too. And I'm gonna, I'll find out about the ghost story. Cause I don't want to say something that isn't true or misleading. I know that he felt like he saw the ghost of my grandfather and he was very frightened, but I, I need to find out the exact sequence of events and the circumstances. But yeah, I would love to hear, hear more about that. Well, this is fantastic. I think this was really, um, really interesting in definitely creepy. I think sometimes the creepiest things are those things that are, you know, you mentioned before that Shelly had a hard time putting words to what she saw. And I think things that are beyond, I mean they're beyond human experience. We don't have the language for it yet. Right. And then, um, it makes us grapple with what is, or what could be, and that's really, it's terrifying, but it's also what makes life worth living. Thank you to everyone who listens. The best thing you can do to help us grow is to like review on subscribe on iTunes and even better yet tweet about us or post about us on Facebook. Tell your friends if you think they would like us and have a good night.
Speaker 2:[inaudible].