Beneath Your Bed Podcast
Beneath Your Bed Podcast
Rendlesham Forest UFO/UAP Incident
Have a topic suggestion? Email us at beneathyourbedpod@gmail.com
BBC News
Rendlesham Forest UFO sighting 'new evidence' claim
July 13, 2015
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-suffolk-33447592
Encounter in Rendlesham Forest: The Inside Story of the World's Best-Documented UFO Incident
by Nick Pope (Author), John Burroughs (Author), Jim Penniston (Author)
April 15, 2014
https://www.amazon.com/Encounter-Rendlesham-Forest-Best-Documented-Incident/dp/1250038103
Fade to Black with Jimmy Church
Episode 576, Jimmy Church w/ John Burroughs : Rendlesham Revisited
December 21, 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-bqYvtEkiM
Fade to Black with Jimmy Church
Episode 982 Jimmy Church w/ John Burroughs : Rendlesham The Last Word
January 23, 2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WQkBtdEqNk
Ministry of Defence
The National Archives
Archived on 10 Nov 2012
UAP in the UK Air Defence Region: Volume 2
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-suffolk-33447592
The Basement Office
Episode 5 | Rendlesham Forest UFO Incident Part 1 | Real evidence & witnesses | The Basement Office
Premiered Jun 26, 2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy5tIevquP0
The Basement Office
Episode 6 | Rendlesham Forest UFO encounter Part 2 | Binary Code & Jim Penniston
Premiered July 10, 2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaYfsxbiKsM
Unsolved Mysteries
Season 4, Episode 1
Bentwaters UFO (Pts. 1 & 2)
https://unsolved.com/gallery/bentwaters-ufo/
UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record
By Leslie Kean
https://www.amazon.com/UFOs-Generals-Pilots-Government-Officials/dp/0307717089
While on patrol airman, John Burroughs went to meet up with his Sergeant. It was an opportunity to get to know his superior riding around the perimeter of the Woodbridge, rural air force base. He saw something in settling that would change his life forever to kill your light shone in the dark of night in Rendlesham forest at warranted investigation, what he and his fellow servicemen saw would become one of the most well-documented UFO sightings, high ranking officials in the world. Jen, how are you? My friend? Hey, I'm doing great. How are you? I'm doing great. I'm excited about tonight's story. So am I I'm excited because it has an extra terrestrial flare and I don't think we've actually we did. We just did. Um, we did. USO's the swimmers of Lake by call. Yeah. We just did the, the swimmers of Lake by call and USO's, but there's just so much to cover on UAPs and UFO's or whatever you want to call them. And, um, USO's yeah, no, I'm excited for tonight. And this is for the second time, you're the person doing the one on the UAPs or UFO's again, whatever, whatever your nomenclature of choices, but I really want to do a story on them at some point soon. So, cause I'm, I'm fascinated me too. And I think we're being prepared for, for the big one. I think something big is going to happen. You do you think be in 2020, maybe in 2021 that we're going to be visited, they might give us a year. I mean, Jesus 2020 was just, that's just too much. Yeah, that's true. By the way, this is, this is this, our first episode of the new year. It is so happy new year to all our listeners. Absolutely. We hope that it is a better new year than the one we've just come out of. I mean, it was a challenging year. I still feel like, you know, there were a few bright spots actually for me, the podcast was one of the biggest bright spots starting the podcast. But, um, it was a hard year for so many people and it's really exciting to see listenership increasing and we're getting people from all over the world. I mean India and UK and France and Germany and in Japan. And that really is exciting. And then we, you know, have a regular listeners too. I'm well, a lot of these people are regular listeners, but it's exciting too, to see people locally like in Virginia and Maryland, that area West Virginia. Yes. Uh, West Virginia, Tennessee get excited about Tennessee and France. It's very exciting. I think it's East of France, but in Clichy or something, I don't know. Yoda false is near Paris. I believe that's super exciting. We need some listeners in Ireland so that we have people we can visit when we go there in the next couple of years. Hopefully you need to tell your potato story from France. Okay. So you want to hear my potato story? Do you? Well, I think the Lucerne France would, would like to hear the potato story. So
Speaker 2:For our listeners or listener and France, I spent a semester in Paris studying, uh, the part of the Sorbonne that's for foreign students. So I was there and I was no pair for a couple of really bratty little boys. They were horrible children. I think they may be a big part of the reason that I don't have children today. They weren't terrible. But the family, um, the feeling was kind of, I don't know, they were kind of strange. Like they were very upper crusty, but anyway, they invited me to go to Normandy. They always went to Normandy for Christmas. And so I didn't have any place to go or any money. So I figured sure. I'll go to Normandy. Maybe I'm going to be like, I'm going to be their guests. I'm going to be part of the family. Well, let me just say, when I got to Normandy, I was like, I was like Cinderella. I was not part of the family. So the first night we get there, they're like first they asked me to go out and start a fire to burn some trash. And I was like, do what? I didn't know how to start a fire, Jen. I didn't know how to burn trash. It would have been horrible. So I was like, you know,[inaudible] found food. It was terrible. So then they're like, well, we need you to go out and dig some potatoes in the garden. Now mind you it's like December 23rd or 24th. I don't think it was Christmas Eve, but it was like the 23rd. I mean who's who goes out and digs potatoes in the middle of the winter.
Speaker 1:Did they give you an implement? You know, I don't remember an implement.
Speaker 2:Maybe they expected me to dig with my bare hands. I don't know. But I, I kind of just said, I don't know how to dig potatoes. They probably thought stupid American like, look, dig the potatoes. Or you will not have anything for dinner. It was horrible. And like the boys stole my bra out of my room and they, they ran it downstairs and like whipped it in front of their father's face. It was so horrifying. Like the entire, I was so happy to get back to my little hovel,
Speaker 1:A room in Paris. I don't even think I would have been embarrassed by that. Really. I was like, it was so embarrassing. I'm sure I probably should have been embarrassed, but I don't know if it would embarrass me. I love that
Speaker 2:Your dad. So my bra is, it was a horrible, horrible thing.
Speaker 1:[inaudible] Fran story. So that's my, yeah. One of my many French stories.
Speaker 2:So we should talk about what we're drinking this evening. Cause I'm pretty excited about what I'm
Speaker 1:I'm drinking. What are you having tonight, Jen? Wow.
Speaker 2:Well, I must say it is thanks to you because part of it is a Christmas gift that you gave me and I have learned how to pronounce it. It is[inaudible], which is a Japanese plum wine. And so I have made an
Speaker 1:Issue. Um, what am I calling
Speaker 2:It in a may shoe orange fizz? Because I, I combined that I read that you could combine it with like a lemon soda. I didn't have any lemon soda, but I had a blood orange like carbonated soda thingy. I forget what the brand is. So it's like a blood orange who may shoe fits. It's really, really nice. Is it a liqour
Speaker 1:Or is it a wine or a I've
Speaker 2:Seen it called both things. Um, at first gen I have to say I got really excited because I saw a hundred on the bottle and I thought that meant a hundred proof, but I don't know, it was like a hundred percent, but it was like a hundred. I don't know. It must've meant like a hundred percent plum wine or something. Cause then later I finally found the 14.4% alcohol content on the bottle, but I was like, whew, I'm going to be feeling it tonight, but it's delicious. It's really sweet and fruity. It's really nice. So thank you so much.
Speaker 1:I've seen it online and I thought I'm going to try to get, get that for Jen. And I was finally able to track it down.
Speaker 2:Really appreciate it. And it has the plums in the bottle. Um, and I read somewhere that you should fish them out. Like you should eat them because they're really good. So like you can use them to garnish your drink. So I'll probably do that when I have Howard again, what are you having? My friend, it's funny that you,
Speaker 1:You are drinking the hooch that I got you because I am actually, I got a sugar cube and I use my tongs that you got me for Christmas. And then I saturated the, um, I saturated the sugar cube with a few drops of lavender bitters. Oh, that sounds so nice. I put in some lemon cello and added Champaign to cheers my friend ringing in the new year.
Speaker 2:Yes. Cheers. That sounds so elegant. 20,
Speaker 1:21 is going to be everybody's year.
Speaker 2:It is here's to 2021 and we are going to have so many adventures. Like I'm so excited to go places. And you know, when we finally are able, we are just gonna, I just miss, like, even though we do the podcast, I miss hanging out with you so much.
Speaker 1:Me too. Oh. And one more plug and I just want to give another plug and I know that we did this several episodes ago, but we're going to be able to, hopefully the next couple of weeks we'll have that interview with, um, the correctional officer that worked with Hadden Clark, the serial killer.
Speaker 2:Yes I am. So looking forward to that, that's going to be really interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I'm looking forward to it as well. I think it should be really interesting episode. So yeah, here's to Matt. I don't know if we should drink the Hadden Clark, but so tonight I'm going to cover the Rendlesham Boris UFO incident. And I think a lot of people haven't heard of this one, cause you're so used to hearing about Roswell Roswell Roswell, and this one, believe it or not is probably the best documented UFO case in the world. It wasn't anything recent either. This happened in 1980, some of the sources for what I'm about to discuss the book encounter in Rendlesham forest, the inside story of the world's best documented UFO incident. And it's by Nick Pope and John burrows and gem Peniston. And also I listened to on YouTube again, I listened to Jimmy church's fade to black show and I listened to episodes five 76 and nine 82 where he actually interviews John burrows. I think most people have heard of John burrows in relation to this incident, if we're familiar with Rendlesham than you're familiar with John burrows. Okay? So this is a bit of a story and it involves a lot of different characters and the timeline of events can get kind of confusing. So I'm just going to start off with like the most significant people in the case. One is Sergeant bud Stephens. The other is airman John burrows. And it was just talking about Sergeant Jim Peniston, airman ed cabins sag, and I've heard it pronounced cabin sag and cabin sack. So if I use it interchangeably, that is why. And then there is deputy commander, Lieutenant Colonel, Charles halt. And there is Sergeant Adrian, but stanza and Nick Pope keep him in the back of your mind too. And again, he's a author of the book I was just talking about and he was an employee at the British government's ministry of defense, which is equivalent to our DOD. So the night of the first incident, it's not really the night it's actually in the morning. It occurs on December 26 at around two 30, three 30 in the morning of the 26th. But a lot of people say it happened Christmas night, but it was really the early morning hours of it would be boxing day, I guess then. And the location was the Royal air force bases, Woodbridge and bent water. And they're owned by the British. But at that time they were operated by the U S and the Rendlesham forest is between them. So between the two bases, there's about two to 300 yards between them. And it's located close to the North sea. So on the early morning of December 26, as I was saying around two 30, three 30 John burrows, he was doing standard patrol. And he met up with his commander, his new commander at the time. And his name was staff Sergeant, bud Stephens. And they were just hooking up to, I guess, get to know each other a little bit better and to talk and that sort of thing. So as they're on patrol, according to burrows, Sergeant Steffens saw something to send it to the forest. He said to John, he said, did you see that? And John is like, you know, he didn't see anything come down, but he could see something in the forest that had flashing lights, different color lights. So technically Stephens is the first person who ever laid eyes on this. It wasn't burrows, it would be Stephen. So this is by Burroughs account because Stephen's, I don't think he's been interviewed since this, since this incident occurred or at least, you know, publicly, of course. So they're trying to decide what to do. They go down to the end where the East gate is, and they're trying to figure out what, you know, what do we do? You know, do we call it in? So they decide that they're going to leave base, which is a big no-no. And so they leave base, they go down like this logging road, not real far at all, and they turn it around. And I think Bruce got out of the Jeep and he said, he could just feel like static electricity. Yeah. He said, you could just feel like something was in the air, like something was wrong. And they were watching these lights. And the, he said at one point it looked like it was moving towards them a bit. So he got back in the Jeep and they went back inside the base and right there, like a, a radio shack or something, they can just call it in. So they call in that they, you know, see something, they had seen something really new, something that they just could not identify it and know what it was. And so when they called it in, uh, Sergeant Peniston, who was actually like a specialist or had a lot of expertise in crafts, um, so he should know what he's talking about. So he, you know, arrives at the guard shack with, or the radio shack with airman ed cabin, sack, and Peniston. He wanted to investigate the lights further, but, and they also asked, I guess they also asked like their desk, I forgot what they call it. They have all these different acronyms, but when they called into the desk, if they had seen anything, they also put in a call to Heathrow airport and he throw had detected something. But I guess they didn't really know what it was. So he throw had picked up on something as well. Interesting. So back to penicillin and Burroughs, and also with a cabin sag and Stephens, Stephens did not want to go. He's like, Nope, I'm good. I'm going to stay here. You guys can go. And he was really rattled by it, but who wouldn't be? So they go further out and they get out of their Jeeps. And again, people said that, you know, they could least John was saying, and I heard this another report too, like Peniston that it just felt like electricity was in the air. And the three of them went like in a staggered formation and cabin sack. He was first. I'm not exactly sure where John was at, where he was positioned if like he was in the middle or behind, but Kevin sack, he was first and there's a lot of different, um, a lot of different narratives as far as whether or not they took their weapons or not. John says at one time that he didn't think that he brought his weapon, but pentostatin and cabin sacks said that he did. So they go up this Hill, he called it a burb. I've never heard of that before. Have you, what was it called? A berm I've heard of that like, like on the berm of the road or something like that. Yeah. So he said there was a berm, like a small Hill and they went up it and I guess just as they crusted it, that they could see like this bright light and according to him and gave a pulse and they hit the ground and then it shot straight up. So that's boroughs. That's what he said. Wow happen. Um, so for at least part of it, that's, John's account of what happened, Sergeant Peniston. And it seems like there's some, perhaps maybe some tension between the two of them and I'm not sure penicillin's retelling of the event has morphed or changed throughout the years. Um, it's evolved throughout the years. And based on his account, he has said, now that he was able to touch it was a craft. It wasn't just a light or it wasn't just like a big ball of lights or he was able to approach the craft and touch it. And it was triangular. And that when he did this, he got this binary download and there were, there were like glyphs, like hieroglyphics on it, like he had never seen before. So his stories of all different time, for whatever reason who knows. Um, but John, I mean, he I've, like I said, I've listened to hours and hours of him being interviewed. And he seems like he's pretty, you know, upfront about things. Like, I don't know. He's willing to say, I, I don't know. Versus I think sometimes always regard people, the suspicion that seemed like they know all the answers or, yeah. He doesn't seem as if he's reluctant to say he doesn't know, which I think is a good quality. I just wanted to ask you really quickly on Peniston. You said the binary download. So he was he saying that when he touched it, that something downloaded into his brain. Yep. That's exactly what he said. He also said that he had a notebook with him. So it went from them, I think, always in a reporting, the same thing. And then it evolved to Peniston saying that he approached it. It was triangular. He saw glyphs, he laid his hands on it and he got this binary download. So like zeros and ones like that would be used for computer, computer programming. Did he say he did anything with that? He produced the key, produce a little notebook that he had that he wrote in years later. So then there's that. So, so John goes home and he only sleeps for a bit and he wakes back up and he's thinking, you know, something's not right. I just feel like I have to go there again. And he goes to base cause he was living downtown. He wasn't living on base at that time. And he gets there and he was friends with the person who ran the desk. I don't know if it's a desk Sergeant or what you would call them, but they're like, you won't believe it's something else happened. Something else went down. So on the night of the 26, there was another officer that they saw some funny things out there too. She went out there and her Jeep and I think she had someone who was accompanying her, but they didn't say who it was already. I didn't find out who that was. So her last name was Tamblyn. So evidently she goes down there and there's this blue ball of light shoots to her window through her car and it cut out the car, cut out. Supposedly she was like really upset and distraught about what happened. And she was relieved of her duties for that night. And that's per Burroughs who got this from someone else. And I think she's actually maybe the most interesting figure in this whole entire case. Like what, why do you, what makes you say that? I say that because she's never come out on the record and John on the Jimmy church show, Jimmy had asked him, okay, has anyone tried to get in touch with her? And he's like, he's actually, I had someone try to find her in 2010, you said 10. So I'm assuming he met 2010. And he said, the closest we could get was that being told that she was living off the grid in Italy and she did not wish to be contacted. Really. Yeah. So I just find if all the P there were a lot of, well, there was several people throughout this who didn't want to be seen, like interviewed like Stephens is one of them in England. And I'm going to talk about later, he's another, but she just seems like she's a total ghost. Yeah. And it sounds like, you know, this encounter really made a huge impression on her. Yes. As it would, yes. With anyone.
Speaker 2:Well, I would be a screaming mess. I think
Speaker 1:Go would be, if I was alone, I would be, if I was with somebody else too, though, I'd be very interested in trying to figure out what it was.
Speaker 2:What do you think we do if we were together, do you think, would we be fearless Intrepid investigator? Would we, would we run the other way? I think we'd be screaming. It kind of thing. So too, but I kind of hope that we would approach it. I want my binary down.
Speaker 1:You don't see that happening. That's approaching it.
Speaker 2:No, I think it depends on what kind of frame of mind we're in for drunk.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So that's what he heard. That's what John Burroughs was, what was reported to him? Whether or not that's true. I don't know, but I don't see why he would, you know, I don't know why he would fabricate that or not, but I would love to see if someone could, could somehow get her to agree to be interviewed. But if it's been all this time, I do not see that happening. And what does it mean to be off the grid? Does that mean to be like you have no, like you don't have a cell phone
Speaker 2:During that. Yeah. Does that mean when I hear off the grid? I think like you're not using any power, you know, at least from like the power line system that you're completely self-sufficient that you're kind of not in touch with the rest of the world. That's what I think it means, but who knows?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I kind of think of like it Linda Hamilton from the Terminator running around with a shotgun and hiding her cell phone. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I kind of take a preppers and things like that. Like the New Mexico desert or something.
Speaker 1:So apparently at that time she was off the grid,
Speaker 2:But to be off the grid in Italy is pretty nice. I was thinking that too. I'm thinking that
Speaker 1:Bad. All that bad. Yeah. So anyway, we digress. There's just a lot of, a lot of twists and turns with this. Okay. So fast forward two nights later, and this is per the book written by Nick Pope and then also also burrows and Peniston in the book. It says that there's this and also, Oh, okay. Also if there's a unsolved mysteries episode on this from ages ago and they actually interview some of the people that were involved. So per uh, Pope's book, I'm just going to call it Pope's book. There was Lieutenant Bruce England and there was actually an awards or Christmas party. And I know it's like a few days after Christmas, but they couldn't book the hall or whatever it was they needed. So I had to be held a few days later, Bruce England, he went to this awards, dinner kind of burst in. And at that time, the Lieutenant commander was Lieutenant Colonel Charles halt, and he's going to play a significant part in this. So he burst in and he says, it's back. And, and he's like, what? You know, Holtz superior was there too. And so whole basically, you know, they said, you know, what, what are you talking about? What's back. And they're like, he's like the UFO is back, haul, draws the S the, um, short straw. And he has to go check it out. And he was just going to go, go down there and quickly debunk it. He brings along a guy who actually has like a Geiger counter. And he also orders that these things that they called Lidells, and they're basically like these enormous lights that they use when they're repairing aircraft in the dark.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay. I think I've seen something like that. Like on the highway, when they're doing road work at night or something,
Speaker 1:It would be like comparable to kind of that, but maybe a little bit taller. I don't know. So he orders those to be brought out to, and they're run by gas, but they kept malfunctioning. I mean, they only worked like, I think a few times during the course of that night. So the team that Holtz assembled to dispel what was going on, um, one of them was Sergeant Monroe Nevilles, and he had a background in disaster preparedness, and there was also a master Sergeant Bobby Ball. And he was actually, um, interviewed for unsolved mysteries too. So if you were to look at that and in a wholesale, original account, and this is the other to me, the other mystery, and Holt's original account of what happened that night, he did not acknowledge that Burroughs was there really that's weird, at least publicly, he did not. And burrows, he actually arrived to the scene where, you know, halt them or checking things out. And he eventually got back there. Halt tried to deny for many, many years that Burroughs was back helping them search. It was Burroughs. And there was this other guy, his name is Adrian.[inaudible]. So Burroughs and Vicenza they're paired together. And halts, according to Burroughs, tells him to go out and investigate these lights because by the time halt got there, he could see the lights of the sky. And at one point in time, it was sending down these beams, Oh my Lord. He saw these beams of light. And at one point it shown a beam down like right in front of him and his men. And at another time it was beaming down on like this storage area, like this weapons, storage area that they have. So burrows and Justine's, or they go out to investigate further. And as they got close, he said that the light came towards them and that they both went down to the ground. But the Steans reported that he actually saw John being hit with like a beam of light and the way that he described it as like John disappeared for a bit, like you would see, like there's a really old star track chose and stuff. How do we, you know, beam somebody up, beam me up, Scotty, do you think he was being dumb? I kind of wonder because a lot of people Peniston also said at one time that the same thing that he witnessed the same thing happened to John when they first approached it the very first night that it happened early morning that it happened. But again, you know, Peniston story has evolved over time. Yeah. And Burroughs is not discounting that that's a possibility. Did he
Speaker 2:Lose memory or lose time or anything that, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm glad that you brought that up. When they, the three of them went out when it was Peniston burrows and then cabin sack, evidently the base lost all communications with them for 45 minutes. So when they got back, they had lost 45 minutes of time. Cause they asked what time it was. That's weird. Isn't it? It is weird. It's very weird. What I didn't mention too, was that halt, when he took his crew out there, they find depressions in the ground that looked like it had been left perhaps by a craft of some kind. And they also detected radiation in that area. And then also they detected radiation on some of the trees because they were like branches and stuff broken off of the trees because when the craft took off the first time, it decided it just shot straight up. You know, it just shot straight up in the sky. So I probably knocked branches and stuff like that down as it was going along. And the other interesting thing about halt is that he was someone who always carried around like a voice recorder with him at the time. And you have to figure that's 40 years ago. I think for that time, you know, it was a bit unusual. So he'd always carried something like that around with him. And just, I think a few years ago they released that tape or parts of that tape is only about 18 minutes long, but it was, it should have been a much longer, there was like starts and stops and things like that, which you do with a recorder when you're recording yourself. So I don't necessarily find that as being suspicious. Was there a lot of profanity?
Speaker 3:No, really. I would
Speaker 1:Have been like what that is. Oh my God. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. I totally would have been like that. So you can hear this going on in real time, but you had this, you know, verbal account of what's going on. And if you remember, I told you burrows, there seems to be like some type of tension or maybe some bad blood between them. I don't know why, but Bruce had said that he had denied that Burroughs was even there that night when, you know, he was out there himself, he actually had to reverse course and, and acknowledge that Burroughs was there because his name was mentioned on the tape when he'd deny, he, he seems like a jerk to me. Like, why would you deny something like a basic fact like that? I don't know. I don't know either. I think about that too. And that's, to me, like other than this Tamblyn that's off the grid, why would, why would halt lie about something like that? It's really odd, but was it halt or was it Peniston who lied about that? It was hall. It was hall because halt is the Lieutenant Colonel. And he was the one that, you know, was at the awards IC. He was at the awards banquet. And he's like, I'm just going to go down there and put this to rest. So I think, yeah, you asking that that's one of the, to me, one of the mysteries too, is the fact that we'll why, why lie about something like that? If you indeed, you know? Yeah. I don't, I don't get the motivation at all. You know, why would you not mention him? So I don't know what the motivation would be either. And I don't understand why burrows two, wouldn't say, well, you know, he left me out of his account and this is why I think he did it. But for whatever reason, burrows does not seem happy with halt at all. He didn't say anything. Well, he did say that, I don't know if he used the word lie, but that he provided different accounts and that he was forced to acknowledge that, that John was there that night halt and his men, they saw this light, they saw that it, you know, made this new, when it took off in the sky, it was beaming down and Robert and ball CUSA guy. One of the guys that, you know, here had mentioned very often, but he was the person that was one of the people that was interviewed and unsolved mysteries. And he said that he felt for certain, that this thing was doing like a grid search, like a grid search, like looking for something, which I thought was really interesting. It is interesting, especially because it's over a military base or whatever in that military base at that time had like this huge, huge arsenal of nuclear weapons. Haultain other people said that it was under intelligent control and there, and they believed, and at one point it bursts and it goes like into five different like balls of light really. Yeah. Later they see like three more, like, I guess are more elliptical looking shapes eventually, you know, eventually those disappear too. So halt hold had written a memo. I think it was a couple of weeks after the incident and it got the date wrong with the incident that he was involved with, that he wrote that was supposed to go to, you know, the British air force. Okay. And it was something like, it was entitled. This is an understatement of the century, um, unusual lights. And so someone finally obtained that through the freedom of information act and got that. So his memo came to light to support, you know, what was cited. And in 2015 there was an interview conducted by the BBC with halt. And again, he said, you know, whatever was there was, was obviously under intelligent control. My personal feeling is that there was some type of mothership or bigger entity or something that was controlling what was on the ground or perhaps some form of what we, what we saw in the sky. Wow. And he also said during that interview that there were some air traffic controllers that later on spoke to him about their accounts, about what happened. And they said that they didn't come forward earlier because you know, people would think that you were a nut and that would be the end of your career, but they did come forward. And did they, they say something similar to what he had seen. This is based on what halt said to BBC. Okay. Whether or not these people actually came forward. I didn't see anything to that effect, but he's saying that he had contact with them and that they had told him, yeah. You know, we, we really did. We saw it too, but we didn't want to say anything because this would, you know, and our entire career in the air force. So I had mentioned one of the co-authors Nick Pope and that he was the employee of the ministry of defense Britain's ministry of defense. So while he was employed there, he had like this wide range of duties and what they do there evidently is that they try to move you around the kind of shift you around every few years, I guess, to give you experience. But they shift employees around quite a bit there. Okay. So he ends up getting this gig to investigate UFO phenomena really, and to determine whether or not any defense significance. So I'm sure, I'm sure he's pretty high up in the, in the ministry of defense, but anyway, he landed all this. So what a, what a great thing I would love. Yeah. I mean, yeah. To have that job now, which, which kind of guy was this, this was Nick Pope and he's a co-author of a book. Wow. It'd be fascinating to know all the stuff that he knows about that, that he can't talk about. Exactly. He had access to all the abodi files from Rendlesham. And when he sold that file, it hadn't been released to the public. So he went back and he did a review of the, of the case. And I think of everything that he's reviewed, that that's been the most credible incident to him and which, you know, cause you had, I think the highest ranking military official at the time, that's on record saying that they had seen this and then you have so many people there at the same time. Yeah. And then you also have the, you know, halt with his recorder. Right. Speaking about what was happening. Yeah. Very well-documented, you know, just so many witnesses and know it's extremely well documented. Do you think it's the best documentary of any? Yeah, I do. I mean, I think, um, as I said, everybody makes such hay about Roswell, but this to me far surpasses all as well. Another thing that's interesting is that burrows, he had a number and even Peniston, he had a number of health conditions as you know, time went by, you know, he, shortly after the incident, bros got sick with symptoms like with nausea, things that resembling radiation exposure in 2011, boroughs doctors discovered that he had like a mitral valve failure, which is something at his age at that time was considered, I guess, unusual or usually happen in men, much older than him. But you know, people have heart problems, you know, everybody's different. But boroughs, what was interesting is that bruise doctor could not get a hold of his, if his health records really from, from the airports, I'm not sure if he was still in the air force or not at that point, but so his doctor could not get ahold of his medical records and they were deemed classified by the VA and the VA evidently can classify your medical records if you're working on something that's classified, but what he was working on or just doing his regular patrol and went out into the forest that wasn't deemed, you know, what he was doing at the time wasn't classified. Does that make sense? What I'm trying to say, like, even though he ran into this really unusual situation, I mean, my only thought is maybe it becomes classified after that point, because then it involves, you know, this extra terrestrial stuff that they want to tamp down. But yeah, like he was just doing his normal duties and he even got Senator McCain's office involved to try to get ahold of those records in Burrow's lawyer and his legal team. They were actually able to obtain a records through the Britain's ministry of defense. Oh. So he did get them well, he was able to, this is how he got them. They were able to find something, some documents who, the British ministry of defense, which, and this is a quote, high levels of radiation were in fact present when burrows and the UFO's met. Wow. So based on that, they were able to get ahold of his, I guess, of his medical records, his full medical records, because they were able to obtain this other document. Okay. Through the British government saying that he was, um, exposed to high levels of radiation. I'm surprised you can come down with cancer or some sort of like that. Then he had problems too. But from what I've seen in, of course I, this could go on for a decade trying to research this or a lifetime. I didn't see him go into PennEast and go into what specifically what his, what his medical problems were and Pope. He also, I think he's the one who alerted boroughs to this, or he's the one who got the documents, but Pope went on and he alerted some other witnesses that believe that they suffered some health problems, do the exposure, the object. And he found a, a document, a declassified document. And it was called on identify phenomenon and in the UK air defense region volume two. And this is a quote from that document. The well reported Rendlesham forest slash bent water event is an example of where it is postulated that several observers were probably exposed to a UAP radiation for longer than normal UAP signing periods. And UAP is actually a term that Pope came up with because when he was trying to go back and interview people, when he's doing an investigation of these, of these UFO cold cases, the minute you say UFO people shut down. So he gave it this term unidentified aerial phenomenon. When he used UAP, when he was interviewing people, they were much more willing to open up. Is that still being used today? Is that kind of replaced UFO? Yeah. It has big time. So unidentified aerial phenomenon. Interesting. Yeah. UAP. So again, it was a line, it was a line from a declassified British intelligence memo called unidentified phenomenon in UK air defense region volume two. And it said the well reported Rendlesham forest slash bent water event is an example of where it is postulated that several observers were probably exposed to UAP radiation for longer than normal UAP sighting periods. But I don't know if it stuck out to you too. It's like, obviously they have other, you know what I'm saying? And they're saying that there's been more than one slide in there acknowledging yeah. That didn't, I didn't catch on, but you're absolutely right. The most recent interview that I listened to with Burroughs that was on the Jimmy church, um, show I think was from about a year ago. And he's also been through like some hypnosis and he didn't really go into like what was retrieved during those sessions, but he's gone through that. And he seemed to think that I guess, whatever it was, that there was credibility to it. And he thinks that when he was asked by Jimmy church, well, what do you think this is? And, or was, and seems to think that there's some type of unusual phenomenon that's just occurring in that specific region really area. And that he also thinks that based on his discussions, I guess, with some other people that perhaps it could have been some weapon Dory or some, you know, some type of technology that our government had at that time. You mean what they, what they saw or what the UAP would have been interested in, what they saw, I guess, I think what they saw, but he seems to think like, it's either one or the other or both. It seems like he might be like thinking that or his, his thinking, I don't want to speak for him, but I think his belief is that it could be a little bit of both. Like there's some really wild phenomenon that's happening in that region. They don't know why. And that also it could have been weaponry or technology that that was really, really top secret, which, you know, with that, if I buy that with a weaponry, I mean, I can totally see it. And other reports that happening, it could just be something that we're testing and not let anybody know. But why would you do it between those two air force spaces? Yeah. That's like an odd place to do it. I think that's really odd too. I was, I think I was telling you this earlier, but I watched this interesting documentary it's from 2020 called phenomenon about UFO's UAPs. And when you talked about in the story, the part about, you know, how there were a lot of nuclear weapons housed on this base, maybe think of there's a part of the documentary and I, they go over so much in the documentary. I can't remember exactly where this is, but they, there are some stories and it wasn't Rendlesham, but where they thought whatever the object was seemed interested in was kind of doing a search of where weapons were stored. And, and that seems to be a theme with UAPs. Um, almost like they, I don't know if they, if they want to know what we have or if they somehow want to destroy what we have, which would probably be a good idea if they destroyed all the nuclear weapons, it just makes you wonder. I don't know. I mean, it makes sense that that, you know, they would be interested in our military bases, but I don't know if I buy yeah. I'm with you. I don't know if I buy that. We have something that's that advanced and top secret, you know, I've heard, I've heard people talk about that actually in this documentary, they talk about that. Um, some people who are high up and they say, you know, as far as I know, we had nothing that would resemble, you know, any of these things that people have seen other places. So, I mean, this scene just seems so off the charts that, I mean, does I just don't, I mean, I could see as we just, as we were talking about earlier, I can see where with other sightings, that might be the case that we have something that's some huge craft that's flying overhead and people spotted or something or something unusual. But yeah, it seems like that this technology is just so beyond anything that we could have had then, or even now. Exactly. I think I used to be more skeptical. I've always been kind of afraid of UFO's just really Luke. Ooh, I don't want to see something like that, but it would be very curious to see it, but I really do believe that they exist. I mean, there's just, the more I hear from people who've witnessed it, you know, on some of these shows, which seem very credible. Like this documentary seemed extremely credible. There's too many, too many instances. I know it was like counted Brian things on a complete nut. He doesn't believe in any of this stuff. Brian is my husband in case some people don't know who that is. Um, well he bright is the world's biggest skeptic. I mean, I have never met a bigger skeptic than this boy. He's, he's always shooting and he's just extremely rational, but I don't think this stuff is irrational. We'll see. I don't either. I just try to think of it. Like what is the most likely, and to me the most likely scenario is that, but it was Yeti, Yeti, I'm sorry. You were going to say secondary to, to Yeti. Um, no, I just think like the, I think about, and I feel like I'm rational for the most part. I try to think, well, what is the most likely scenario? And what I think is the most likely is that it is something that we just don't know what it is. And I think when people think of UFO now known as UAP, they think of, you know, space beings in a, in a craft and it doesn't necessarily have to be that who knows what it is. So what do you think of the, uh, Rendlesham incident? So that was such an interesting story. Wow. Um, and I actually hadn't heard about that. So I'm really interested. Um, 1980 was a long time ago, but you're right. It, it really does seem like it was very well-documented there were so many players involved in it. Um, so yeah, that's a bit of a story thing. Yeah. Hard to keep all of those people straight, but I think, think you manage to, to tell it in a way that, that we could, so that was awesome. Well, you know, like every story calls for a toast at the end. So what do you think, what do you think we should toast to tonight? Jen? Well, let's, um, let's toast to not being abducted by aliens and having, and having our eggs, harvested what you want to toast to having our eggs harvested and not having our let's toast to not having it,
Speaker 4:Your eggs harvested. Okay. Because I'm like, that sounds like those sound like two very good things. Not being abducted and not having our eggs harvested by aliens. I'm I'll drink to that. If they hear, if they harvested our eggs, they would be like, we've been ripped off. We got to go back and get some decent eggs. This is ridiculous. Exactly. They'd say in your words, Jen, they'd be like, these eggs are busted. You're here. My friends, my friends you're here. Thank you to everyone who listens. The best thing you can do to help us grow is to like review on subscribe on iTunes and even better yet tweet about us or post about us on Facebook. Tell your friends if you think they would like us and have a good night.[inaudible].