264. Toxic Relationships (and How to Avoid Them), Part 1 // Ephesians 5:21-33 // Josiah Bogue

Romance causes more anxiety than almost anything else in life. How do you find the right person? How do you avoid repeating the same mistakes? How do you know when to stay or when to walk away? And why does something we want so badly so often end up hurting us?

In this episode, Josiah lays the foundation for a series on relationships by challenging one of the biggest assumptions in modern dating: that love is about what we receive. Drawing from social research, cultural trends, and the teachings of Jesus, he explores why so many relationships collapse and others don't.

Transcript

Welcome & Series Launch

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Hey everybody, thank you for listening to the Collective podcast. My name's Josiah and I'm one of the leaders here. Collective is actually the young adult ministry for Grace Church Bath Campus. And this podcast is just a collection of all the teachings we give every Thursday night at 7 o'clock. So if you are a young adult between the ages of 18 to 29-ish, I want to invite you out to personally seek Collective for yourself. The thing I love the most about it is it's not just a place for Christians. So if you still have a lot of questions about Jesus and don't know what to think about God or the Bible or whatever, you're gonna fit right in. So whether that's you or you've been following Jesus for a really long time, I hope to meet you in person and I hope you find today's episode helpful. All right, let's get to it. Man, welcome, welcome, welcome to Collective. Uh, if we've never met before, uh, my name is Josiah. I see a bunch of new people here, man. I'm really glad you're here. And you could not have picked a better first week to be here because we are starting a brand new series of conversations entitled Toxic Relationships and How to Avoid Them. Toxic Relationships and How to Avoid Them. And the reason I want to do this series is because more than any other topic, I don't know that there's any topic that causes people more anxiety than the topic of romance. Just based on some conversations with some people in this room over the past couple weeks, here's some of the questions I've gotten. See if you relate. How do I find the right person? What am I supposed to be uh looking for in a partner? How do I know if they're the one? If I'm single, am I doing something wrong? What if I want to stay single? How should I break up with someone without hurting them? How should I treat sex in a relationship? What should I do about my sexual past? What if I'm LGBTQ IA plus, which I know is a lot of us in this room? If I'm married but we're having conflict, what should I do? What if I don't want to get married? What even is marriage? When there's problems in my relationship, how do I know whether to fight through those problems or to end it? What if I have commitment issues? I want you to raise your hand if you've ever asked even just one of the questions that's on the screen right now. Okay, every single person in this room. Now, here's what makes all this more complicated. Here's what makes all this more complicated. I think we can all agree that we're in a bit of a crisis in our culture when it comes to healthy uh relationships. According to the most recent American data, about 50% of marriages will end in divorce or separation. And then out of the 50% who stay together, a high percentage of those marriages will grow cold, loveless, and even hostile. In fact, according to a new poll, only about 37% of young adults would describe their parents' marriage as happy. So for most of us in this room, most of us grew up in a scenario where either your parents weren't there or they weren't together or they didn't get along. In addition to that, many of us have found ourselves at one point or another in what many of us would consider to be a toxic relationship. The person that was manipulative, a relationship that you felt like you couldn't get out of. Maybe there was abuse, maybe there was pain in there. And so you're looking and you're saying, how do I make sure that I never end up in one of these again? But you're also looking and saying, I don't feel like I trust myself to make these decisions. How do I make good decisions in all that? But at the same time, there is hope. I was actually surprised by this data. According to a 2025 Harris poll, 86% of 18 to 29-year-olds still want a long-term committed uh romantic relationship. Most of us still have not given up on the idea of committed love. Actually, the same poll found that Generation Z, this room, has the strongest belief in true love out of any living generation. And here's what I found. Even for those of us that are like, I don't know if I could see myself being with one person, you know, forever. Typically, the reason that person is saying that, typically, is because they haven't seen that happen in a healthy way. Most of us, that's still what we want. And the vast majority of us still long for this permanent, committed, long-term, romantic, happily ever after. However, only about 55% of us feel prepared to even pursue a relationship. So the question becomes how do I end up in a happy, healthy, committed relationship, and how do I avoid the toxic ones? How do I end up in a happy, healthy, committed relationship? What does that even mean? What does that even look like? How do I not become like my parents? And how do I avoid the toxic ones? Um, like I said, today we're gonna set up a foundation. You know, you know, um, relationships are one of these topics that I've I've been paying very close attention to uh for years now. About every two years, what I'll do is I'll bust out all the social research on uh on relationships that that unpack the patterns of successful relationships versus unsuccessful ones. Um so what I'm gonna share in this series, not only have I seen it work in my own life, you guys want to see something cute? Yeah, that photo? Aww, yeah. Oh, thanks guys, thanks guys. So that's my BFFFL, uh Sarah. She's the she's the best ever. Uh so Sarah and I have been together for 10 years. We've been married for seven of those years, and she's the best. Like I just I just love her. It's we have the best relationship ever. But you know, seven years compared to other couples obviously isn't that long. At the same time, I I've seen my parents who have been happily married for well over 30 years now, my grandparents were happily married for over 50 years before they passed. I've just seen case after case after case after case where the principles that we're going to talk about were were applied, and these people found incredibly healthy relationships. I can attest firsthand that what we're talking about works, but I also want to show you that all of this is backed by data and research. All of the social studies and surveys that come out point in all of the same direction. But here's what everybody needs to know in advance. Is everybody listening? Here's what you need to know in advance. Everything that I'm gonna share today is going to sound extremely countercultural. Everything that I'm gonna share today is probably not what you grew up with. It's probably not what you would assume. But listen to me, at the same time, what we want is countercultural advice. Because at the moment, the culture has a 50% divorce rate. At the moment, the culture has somewhere around a 37% satisfaction rate. So what we want is something that's against what's the mainstream at this moment in time. Can I share with everybody the biggest finding, according to all the research, to have a permanent, loving, fun, healthy, happy, ever after relationship? Can I share with everybody the biggest finding? According to all the data. Everybody ready for it? Thumbs up? Thumbs up across the board? Okay, here we go. According to all the data, ready? The closer a couple is to God's vision of marriage, as described in the Bible, the happier they are, the healthier they are, and the more satisfied they are, both emotionally and sexually. According to all the data, non-Christian data, just regular data, the closer a couple is to God's vision of marriage, as described in the Bible, the happier they are, the healthier they are, and the more satisfied they are, both emotionally and sexually. Now, as soon as I said God's vision of marriage as described in the Bible, I could feel, I could sense 300 eye rolls happening at the exact same time. That's what I thought you were gonna say. You know what I mean? Like I could just feel boring across the board. And here's why, here's why, here's why. When you think of God's vision of marriage, the vast majority of this room, when we picture God's vision of marriage, most of us are not actually picturing what God pictures when he talks about marriage. So a couple years ago, I did a focus group where I got a bunch of young adults together, uh random young adults from all sorts of different beliefs, and I asked them what they thought of when they imagined what the Bible taught about marriage. And what they said, they they brought up three things over and over and over again. All these random people brought up the same three things that they thought that the Bible taught, and they all described these things negatively. And here were the three things. The first thing that they brought up over and over was sexual restriction. Sexual restriction. Most of us have probably heard that the Bible teaches that sex is designed and reserved specifically for a fully committed couple after they get married. But here's how most of us hear this, and here's how our culture tends to hear this. What we tend to hear this is, God does not care about the quality of my sex life. He only cares that before I got married, I didn't have one. What most of us hear is God doesn't care about the quality of my sex life. All he cares is that before we got married, we didn't have one. So God is perfectly fine in my mind with me having a loveless, passionless, boring sex life. All he cares is that two people got married as virgins. Now that's problematic in of itself, but then there's another massive problem on top of that. According to the research, most of us, the vast majority of this room, probably about 90% of this room, has already had sex with somebody that we're not married to. So the question is, am I already disqualified from what God is describing when he talks about marriage? Is there no hope for me? Okay, here's the second thing that everyone brought up over and over again: gender rules. Gender roles. Now, this one's funny because the term gender roles actually is not a phrase that ever appears anywhere in the Bible. But here's how we interpret this in our culture. The way we hear this is the Bible tells men to rule over women, therefore, God does not care about women. That's like the assumption that comes to mind. Uh, the Bible tells men to rule over women, therefore, God does not care about women, which leads to the third thing that got brought up over and over and over again when people thought of what the Bible talked about marriage. The third thing was this do not get divorced. Top thing God cares about, the number one thing on his mind, do not get divorced. But here's how we hear that. He only cares that we don't leave. God doesn't care if we're actually in love or not. He doesn't care about how this is going. He doesn't care anything about happiness, anything about intimacy, anything about closeness. All he cares is that we made a promise and we don't break it. For some of us, the way we hear this is God doesn't care if we're safe. God doesn't care how um toxic, how abusive, how hostile this relationship has gotten. For a lot of us, we we grew up in homes where there was like real damage happening. And you're like, apparently God doesn't care about that because all He wants is for us to stay here. And man, there has been so much pain that has been inflicted on people, especially children, and in certain environments, because of this idea. And so what we do is we take these three things and we think this is God's vision of marriage, and no wonder we want to stay as far away from that as we possibly can. And if that's you, I I don't blame you at all. I can't completely understand you. And in fact, in many ways, good for you. But can I just clarify something to everyone? Can I just clarify something? This is not God's vision for marriage. This is not God's vision for marriage. In fact, not even close. Yes, there are versions of these things that are talked about in the Bible, and we will look at those teachings in this series and be able to break them down. But all of these assumptions and mis and interpretations are twistings, massive abuses of what God has actually said. In fact, Jesus actually explicitly corrects and forbids each one of these abuses that I mentioned at some other place in the Bible. I want to propose to this room something that I'm guessing you maybe have never thought about before. I want to propose something that when it comes to romance, I don't know that this has ever crossed your mind. And it's this right here. What if your desire for what your relationship should be and God's desire for what your relationship should be are actually the same? What if your desire for what your relationship should look like, for what it should feel like, what it should do in your life? And what if God's desire for what kind of relationship you should have if you end up in one? What if those are actually the same? You might have different views on how to get there. You might have different views on who that person is with, but God put that desire in your heart. And what if God is not trying to keep you from that desire? What if he's teaching us and showing us how to actually have it? And once we find it, how to build it and keep it and keep it healthy. Can I give you God's vision for marriage as described in the Bible? Can I give you one sentence that just describes, if you're to take everything that God says about marriage inside in the Bible, can I give you one sentence to describe his vision of marriage, and then I'll talk about how to get there? Can I get it? Here we go. If you're gonna write something down, here you go. God's vision for marriage is to be happy, healthy, fun, trusting, intimate, adventurous, full of laughter, extremely sexual, never-ending, and unconditional. All the type A people are like again. God's vision for marriage is to be happy, healthy, fun, trusting, intimate, adventurous, full of laughter, extremely sexual, never-ending, and unconditional. And if that is what you want in your long-term romance, if that is what you hope to find, that actually God wants that for you, if that's in the cards, and He wants to show us exactly how to get there and how to keep it once we find it. If you got a Bible, we're gonna be in Ephesians chapter 5. I'm gonna put it on the screens right here. You can follow along. This is probably the clearest and most elaborate passage in the Bible on God's vision for marriage. It's written by this guy named the Apostle Paul. Here's what I'm gonna do. It's a little bit longer. I'm gonna read the whole thing without comments. I want everybody to lock in on exactly what it's saying. Everybody follow along, and then we're gonna break it down. Can we do that? Okay. Ephesians chapter 5, starting in verse 21. Here's what the Apostle Paul says. And further, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. For wives, this means submit to your husbands as you would to the Lord. For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of his church. He is the savior of his body, the church. As the church submits to Christ, so you wives should submit to your husbands in everything. I know I'll get back to that. Keep going. Verse 25. For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. What did he do for us? He gave up his life for her to make her holy and clean, washed by the cleansing of God's word. He did this to present her to himself as a glorious church, without a spot or a wrinkle or any other blemish. Instead, she will be holy and without fault. In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as they love their own bodies. For a man who loves his wife actually shows love for himself. No one hates his own body, but feeds and cares for it, just as Christ cares for the church. And we are all members of his body. As the scripture says, a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one. This is a great mystery, but it is an illustration of the way that Christ and the church, the people, are one. So again, I say, just to summarize all the principles here, each man must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. Okay. In this passage is every ingredient that you need to have the relationship of your dreams. However, almost all of us missed it. Almost all of us missed it because there's a word in there that gets used over and over and over again that really, really throws us off. Did anyone else notice how many times the word submit was used in what I just read? Did this stick out, stand out to anybody else? The word submit. Now, submit is one of those words. Actually, what's funny, that's probably the key word to understand what he's saying here. But at the same time, submit is one of these words that I think very rightly so makes us extremely uncomfortable and nervous. But here's what everyone needs to remember, okay? Everybody remember this. The Bible is translated. Everybody remember that. The Bible is translated. What we just read was originally written in the Greek language and has been translated into the English language. Is anyone in this room bilingual? Does anyone speak uh two languages? So so my mom, uh my mom is from Brazil, so English is not her first language. I know it didn't quite show up in the Punnett Square, but yeah, you know, whatever, man. But uh my mom's from Brazil, so English is not her first language, Portuguese is her first language. And so she was always teaching us uh growing up that oftentimes when you translate something from one language into another, uh, you accidentally imply and say things that you don't mean to imply and say. Sometimes in one language you can say a completely innocent word that's just a normal word, like everybody like accepts it, like that's completely fine, normal thing to say. But you translate it to another language, and now all of a sudden it's this word that has all this history and all this baggage and makes people extremely offended, even though that's not what the author ever intended. Listen, submit is one of those words. The English word submit implies to be subordinate to. It implies like one person is over another, one person is forcing someone to do something that maybe they they they don't want to do. And so when we hear that in a relationship context, what all of us picture is some kind of domineering narcissistic man telling a woman to submit to him. And unfortunately, that that was a home that many of us grew up in. And unfortunately, I know that there's many of us in this room who have been in a relationship with a guy like that. But here's the problem. In the Greek language that Paul is writing in, the word submit has none of those implications. In the language that Paul is writing in, he had no idea that 2,000 years later, in a different country, in a different language, that word was going to be associated with all those things. It's very clearly not what he means at all. Because if you look at the passage, look how he uses the word submit. I just want us to notice these things. Okay, first of all, verse 21. Opening line: submit to one another. Anyone else notice that? Submit to one another. So this is not teaching what just wives, submit to your husbands. It's teaching husbands, submit to your wives. There's an equality in this whole thing. Then look at what he specifically says in verse 25. For husbands, this means love your wives just as Christ loved the church. Now, this is important. Every time Paul says the church, Christ loved the church. He isn't by the church, he is not talking about a building, he is not talking about an institution, he's always talking about people, he's talking about God's kids. So, husbands, love your wives the way that Jesus loves people. Now, let me ask you a question. How did Jesus treat women in the Bible? When you read the stories of Jesus, how did Jesus treat women with more respect, care, and kindness than anyone else in history? Name a single time in the Bible that Jesus raised his voice to a woman. A single time. Name a single time in the Bible that Jesus told a woman that she just needs to do what he says against her will and just listen to me, blah, blah, blah. Name a single time that that happens. Instead, what does Jesus do? He gives her dignity, he listens to her, he defends her, he compliments her, he cherishes her. And then look at the next thing that Paul says. Look at the very next thing. Jesus gave up his life for her. I need everybody to track something. Actually, the husband is called to submit to the wife more than the wife is called to submit to the husband. The husband is called to lay down his life for her to the point of death. Now, I Paul is not talking about like just one, you know, all these guys are always talking about like, one day I'm gonna die for my girl, you know, I catch a grenade for her, I throw my hand on a blade for her, you know what I mean? Like, and and here's the thing like there's all these husbands that are talking about how heroic they're gonna be for their girl, and then they like won't do the dishes. You know what I mean? Like, so so Paul doesn't mean just die for her in like some kind of heroic way at one point in time. He means die for her the way Jesus died for us. Every day I humble myself, even to the point where that might actually take my life. Here's what I'm trying to say is everybody listening, here's what I'm trying to say. Girls, there is no universe where God is asking a woman to obey the oppressive commands of a misogynistic man that she's not in here. Girls, if a guy ever tells you to submit to him, run. Get out of there, go as far away as you possibly can. The kind of man that God is describing is someone who treats you the way that Jesus treats you. And guys, listen, guys, let me tell you something. This passage is telling you to submit to your wives. It is not giving you permission to one day look at a girl and say, Submit to me. That's between her and God. It's telling you to serve her. What she does for you is none of your business. So, what does the word submit actually mean? Can we give like an actual definition based on this passage, based on what the Bible teaches? What does the word submit actually mean? Here's a definition for you. Ready? Submit means to give all of myself to another, expecting nothing in return. Submit means to give all of myself to another expecting nothing in return. Actually, that you could use this same definition for the word love. To give all of myself to another, expecting nothing in return. Can I show you the type of healthy marriage that the Bible is describing here? Because here's why we're talking so much about marriage, right? If we understand the healthy version of the end goal, we can backtrack and learn how to date in a healthy way. Okay? So can I show you what the type of relationship that he's actually describing? Let's say that this right here is you. This is you. Yes, your beautiful blonde hair, you've been locked up in a tower. Let your magic shine. Yeah, like so. Let's say that that's you. We live in a culture that says, no matter what, here's what you need to do. No matter what. You need to do what's best for yourself, right? So you need to take care of your own needs, you need to figure out your own direction. You need to focus on yourself. No matter what, the value above all values is, you need to take care of yourself. And so what all of us are trying to do, and all of us in our lives, is we're trying to accumulate as much like happiness and joy and satisfaction as we possibly can. So let's just say for a second that these coins right here, and say that these represent happiness, the amount of happiness you have. You know, so so all your needs are met, you know, that's like one happiness coin. Uh you have a job that you really like, like that's a happiness coin. You got like a good friend group, that's another uh happiness coin. Two victory royales in a row, not trying to brag, but that's a happiness coin. You know what I mean? Uh you got your dreams for your life, like you get to follow your dreams, you know, that that's one. Uh you're maturing, you're developing personally, you're becoming more intellectual, you're becoming more independent, like whatever it is, right? What all of us are trying to do is we're trying to accumulate as much happiness as we possibly can. But here's what we believe as a society. All of us as a society believe that there is someone out there, someone out there who is going to come along in my life. And this person, he or she, has the same dreams, has the same goals, has the same aspirations, and is going on the same direction that I am right here. And what we believe is that this person will help me get more happiness than I could get on my own right now. And so here's how most marriages work, because Flynn's got his own happiness coins, right? So here's how here's how most marriages and most relationships work. They work something like this she compliments uh me, I compliment her, right? She makes me feel happy and loved and cherished. I help her feel safe and known, and we have a great friendship. Um, she uh is attractive, I am Instagrammable, uh you know, she makes money, uh he makes money, she listens to me yap about the Roman Empire, uh, she makes more money, I eat food, you know what I mean? And so we have this idea that like, like the the idea is something like this. Um, what we have this back and forth exchange. She makes me feel a certain way, he makes me feel a certain way. We do this back and forth, and we call this exchange love. Now, here's the problem. Here's the problem. When you are looking, let's say this is you, and let's say you're married, right? When you are looking at your marriage relationship, here are the types of questions you're asking. Does he make me happy? Do I find her attractive? Is he fulfilling my emotional needs? Is she helping me go where I want to go? Is he paying attention to me? Is she working hard enough? We're asking questions about this. Are they doing what I expect them to do? And the other person is asking the exact same question. Now, everybody track with me on something, okay? Everybody's asking the same question. What am I receiving? What am I receiving? That's what's on my mind, that's what's on my mind. What am I getting out of this? Now, everybody listen. What are the top reasons for divorce? What are the top reasons for divorce? Now, first let me give a caveat. There are a percentage of divorces, of course, where one partner uh cheats and is unfaithful, or one partner becomes abusive and the other partner doesn't. And so one partner does something very bad and the other partner is just a victim. And just to be clear, the Bible talks about this. God does not expect you to stay in that scenario. However, that is not the majority of divorces, not by a long shot. What are the top reasons for divorces? Well, here's some big ones, according to stats. Financial stress, depression, unachievable expectations, an unfulfilling sex life. One partner goes through health problems, and so now they can't walk, or now there's all these medical bills, or whatever. The loss of a child, and I could keep going on and on and on. Now listen, what do all of those things have in common? What do all those things have in common? Here's what all those have in common. All of those things are is when one partner goes bankrupt and the other partner looks at the first partner and says, give me two more coins. Give me two more coins. Well, I don't have any. I'm depressed. Well, I I I don't I'm I'm sorry I don't look the same way I looked when I was 22. Well, I we've we've run out of money. I I'm sorry that that we didn't hit the financial dreams that we had when we were younger. I'm sorry, I'm I'm sorry about that. One partner goes bankrupt, the other partner says, Give me two more coins. The first partner says, I don't have that, and the other partner goes, Well, I gave you two coins last week. I gave you two coins last month. I'm sorry, I'm depressed. I I'm sorry, I'm grieving right now. I'm I'm sorry. And what happens is resentment starts to build, communication starts to fade. Sometimes decades go by. I don't see what's in this for me anymore. They grow distant, distant, distant over the course of time, and then one person just says, I guess she wasn't the one. I guess she wasn't the one that was supposed to give me the happiness that I was looking for. Now, I want to ask you, why did all of this happen? Because I wasn't receiving. I wasn't getting what I was expected. Now, here's what's funny, here's what's funny. No one is ever going to admit to being that shallow, right? You look at every relationship, no one like no one writes on the divorce papers because I got really selfish and they got sick. You know, no one's gonna write that. What do they write? Irreconcilable differences, right? That's what they write. No one's ever going to admit to being that shallow. But here's the problem. If you get to the core of every marital breakdown, it is always because at least one partner, probably both partners, turned selfish. Now, what Jesus is saying is this whole thing is the exact opposite of what actual love is. God's vision for marriage, God's vision for romantic love, is two people giving all of themselves to each other, giving the coins, but expecting nothing in return, expecting nothing back. God is saying, listen, if you fully commit yourself to someone in marriage, you are putting to death the question, what am I getting out of this? Are they keeping up their part? And my only focus till death do us part is one question right here. What can I give to them? When I wake up in the morning, I'm no longer asking the question, what will make me happy today? What's relaxing to me? What are my needs? Here's the question I'm asking every single day when I wake up in the morning. I'm asking, what does Sarah need? What would make Sarah happy today? What kind of movie does Sarah want to watch? World of the Worlds with Tom Cruise? Sounds great to me. I mean, uh, what's going on in Sarah's life? What would make her smile? Every morning I'm waking up and I'm asking those types of questions. Now you might look at that and say, Well, Josiah, that sounds like actual literal slavery. That sounds like the worst thing ever. No, no, no, no, no. You're missing it. Because at the same time, Sarah is waking up every morning asking the exact same questions. What would make Josiah happy? What's on Josiah's mind? What are Josiah's needs? What would make him smile? And I'm not gonna lie, she's much better at this than I am, which means over the course of our marriage, I've had this constant drive to get better and better and better at pouring my life out for the person that I love. Now, I want you to notice two things about this scenario, okay? Two things are very important. First, all of my needs are met. All of my needs are met. But they are not met by me looking out for number one. They're not met by me understanding what a healthy selfishness is and holding on to it. That's not how they're met. All of my needs are met by the person I love the most, selflessly loving me. But here's the second thing I want you to notice. In this exchange, in this back and forth, we created something that neither of us had on our own. Love. Actual love. You know, I know in our culture we talk a lot about loving yourself, which actually defies the complete definition of love, because you need another person, right, to actually have love. Giving myself, giving herself back and forth. That is real love. And here's the funny part about the whole thing. Even if I started off with six coins on my own and I ended up with four happiness coins in the end, I'm still more happy. Why? Because the coins that I receive from the person I love about love the most are way more valuable to me than the coins I protected because I was trying to be careful. You know what I mean? You get what I'm saying here. Love comes from what you give, not from what you receive. Love comes from what you give, not from what you receive. So you cannot have full, true love until you're willing to give all of yourself to another person, actually expecting and demanding nothing in return. In God's vision of marriage, this is important. In God's vision of marriage, my money is not my money. My time is not my time. My dreams are not my dreams, my body is not my body. All of those things no longer belong to me, they belong to her. The moment I say I do, what I'm doing is I'm taking all my coins and putting them into the other person's hands and trusting that the other person will be responsible and trustworthy with what I've handed over, but expecting and demanding nothing in return. Okay, now let me give a massive disclaimer. This disclaimer is so important. Everybody listening to this disclaimer. I feel like the people that really need to hear this disclaimer are on their phones right now. Is everybody listening to this disclaimer? Everything I have said so far is about marriage. It is not about dating. Everything that I've said so far is about marriage. It's not about dating. Some of you just came to the conclusion, oh, I know why my relationship is falling apart. I haven't given enough yet. I need to invest more. I need to stop talking to even more of my friends. You're right. I should never talk to my mom again. All I need is her. That's what some of you can do, that is the conclusion some of you have come to. Here's what I've learned about you. Here's what I've learned about this category of people. It doesn't matter what I say, you're gonna come to that conclusion. You know, all of us have a gift. All of us have gifts, some of us are strong, some of us are smart. You have the gift of hearing whatever the heck you want to hear. That is your gift. So I'm also largely saying this for the rest of the room to be like, he definitely did not say that. So I'm throwing that out. Now, here's here's a principle, okay? Dating is not the time to give your life to someone. That's marriage. And if you treat dating like marriage, it will turn toxic remarkably fast. In fact, that is the downfall of probably most of our relationships. Dating is not the time to give your life to someone. Dating is the time to find someone to give your life to. Dating is not the time to give your life to someone. Dating is the time to find someone to give your life to. And this insight completely changes the way that we date. Why? Why, why, why? Because if I understand what true love actually requires of me, fully giving of myself to another person, expecting nothing in return. If I actually understand that, the number one question on my mind when looking for a partner will not be how many coins do they have? How many coins do they have? How attractive are they? Do we have similar interests? Are we going in the same direction? That won't be the number one question on your mind. The number one question on my mind will be this. Here's the question above all questions. Do I trust them? Number one question. I'm about to hand everything to them. Do I trust them? Now, I did not say that uh the other questions are unimportant. So I'm not imagining that you're gonna marry someone that you're not attracted to. I'm not imagining that you're gonna marry someone that is not going in the same life direction. I did not say any of those things are unimportant. I said the question above all questions, the deal breaker above all deal breakers is not, is he six foot five? The deal breaker of all deal breakers is, do I trust him? Because when I throw everything into their hands, the moment I say I do, this is at the altar, it is no longer mine to protect, it is no longer mine to demand. Now, in our culture, we think we found a workaround to this whole scenario. In our culture, I would say just as a culture, we have like a phobia of commitment. Is that fair enough to say, right? We kind of have a phobia of commitment, and everybody's nodding their heads, and you do it too. You're thinking about someone else, and it's your fault. Anyways, um, but so so here's what we do, here's what we do in our culture. We say, all of my life is pretty drastic, and I don't know what they're gonna do with that. All that that's quite a bit. So, what I want to do instead is I just kind of want to test it out. Give them one coin, see how it goes. I just want to test it out, give it give them two coins. That's how it goes. I I remember uh when I was in high school, uh, when I was like 15, I had this girlfriend, I got into this relationship, and I drove with uh my friend and his dad to school every single day, and I had just started dating this girl. And I remember I my friend had his headphones in. We were in the car driving to school, and uh so my friend had his headphones in, and so I was just chatting to his dad, and we were talking about like World War II and Elon Musk and you know those types of things. And yeah, so so so we're we're going back and forth. And eventually his dad found out that I was in a relationship, and he goes, uh, he goes, So Josiah, did you uh take that car out for a spin? You know, and I go, what? And he goes, Yeah, you know, you know, did you uh take that car out for a spin? And I'm like, what do you mean? And he goes, Well, well, you would never buy a car before you like tested the car, like you test drive the car, right? You would never buy a car. And I I remember thinking, I know exactly what you're talking about. I just want you, a full-grown man, to tell me a 15-year-old exactly what you mean by this. You know what I mean? So he's talking, but here's the idea, here's the idea. We don't want to get divorced, right? We don't want to end up in bad relationships. So here's this idea. We're like, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna test. So one version of that is I'm gonna test and make sure that we're sexually compatible. Because I'm gonna, you know, we're gonna end up together for like 50 years, you know. I want to make sure that we're compatible. Another version of that is, well, I want to make sure that they're like a good life partner. So let's move in together. Let's just like three. I don't have to give like all the coins, just like three. Let's like move in together, let's see how we get along, let's see, you know, how how we do chores, like let's just kind of test that out. There's other versions of that where you're like trying stuff out, you know, with like you're like with family, how do you, you know, there's other versions, but a lot of us have in our minds, before we go all in, let's kind of like play house. Let's kind of like pretend to be in like some version of a couple, and then let's see how this actually goes. Now, here's the problem with that. Here's the problem with that. If you're if you're doing that, I totally understand you don't want to get divorced, no judgment. However, all of the data is against you. All of the data is against you. You would think that this would ensure stronger relationships, but here's what the data actually has to say. Uh, consistent with every other study conducted, the Journal of Marriage and Family reported again that living together before marriage increases, not decreases, your chances of divorce. Similarly, Pew Research compared the levels of trust and satisfaction between cohabitating partners and married partners, and the married partners beat the cohabitating partners in not most, but every category of satisfaction. In the 2000s, the University of Utah started studying this phenomenon of five-year divorces. This is when a couple gets married and they divorce within five years. And they studied this amongst women. They found that the group of people with the lowest divorce rate in that category were women who got married with no prior sexual partners, people that got married as virgins, they only had a 6% divorce rate. It went down from a 50% to a 6%. The Institute for Family Studies, again, none of this is religious data. So uh the Institute for Uh Family Studies uh reported that both men and women who have only had one sexual partner are the most likely to have very happy marriages, which is the highest score that you could get on this assessment. Now you might say, well, just I don't want a marriage. That's the thing. I just want to be with this one person. I don't need a piece of paper, I don't need the government defining for me what love is. Like I just want to, you know, live with this person. Oh, okay, here you go. LiberTech Social Science uh Sciences published in 2020 that half of all cohabitating relationships will end within the year. I I don't, you know, if if right now you are living with your boyfriend or your girlfriend, no judgment whatsoever. But all the data says that half of you will break up by the end of the year and 90% of you will end your relationship within five years. Here's what I'm trying to say. I get why we're doing this. You don't want to get divorced, no judgment whatsoever. But here's the thing that I want you to see. The very thing you're doing to avoid divorce is actually causing it. The very thing you're doing to avoid divorce is actually causing it. Now, why is this? Why might that be the case? Let me tell you why. Because those relationships are built on testing someone, not trusting someone. Those relationships are built on testing someone. How do you respond? Not trusting someone. And your relationship is not built on love, it's built on meeting a series of conditions. Now, I know that as soon as I went through all of those stats, almost all of us had two questions that immediately came to mind. Okay, and here's the two questions. Here's the first one. But Josiah, I've already made a lot of those decisions. Josiah, I've already made a lot of those mistakes. And that would be true of 90% of this room. Is there still hope for me? You know, I I I didn't know this. No one had ever told me this before. And now all the stats are against me. Is there still hope for me? If you're asking this question, everybody look at me. If you're asking this question, you're asking, is there hope for me? I just want to tell you right now, absolutely yes. 100% unapologetically, absolutely yes. Listen, listen, listen. Jesus will heal any damage that was caused to you or another person. Jesus will restore your situation. He does it all the time. If you trust him, if you trust him, and if you start following him and slowly listening and obeying what he has to say, absolutely, yes, I've seen it time and time and time again. So if that is you, and that's the question on your mind, I really need you to dial into the last couple points of this talk because I'm gonna tell you exactly the secret to see that restored in your life. Everybody understand? That's the first question. Here's the second question that a lot of us are asking, though. Here's the second question. But Josiah, how can I be sure that the person I maybe one day give all of my life to is someone I can trust? How can I be sure that when I give someone access to all of my money, when I give someone all of my time, when I maybe move across the country for someone, when I give someone all of who I am physically, when I open up and tell everybody all or tell this person all about my past, how can I be certain that this person is someone that I can trust and not someone who is going to twist the knife? Now, both of these questions actually have the same solution. Both of these questions actually have the same solution. And I'm gonna give you that secret. I'm gonna give you that solution, but I gotta be honest with you, and here's always my fear when I do series like this. I gotta be honest with you. I'm about to give the solution. This is the most important part of the entire talk, and my honest fear is that 80% of you just won't will not hear it. My honest fear is that 80% of you have listened about as far as you're gonna listen. You've taken some interesting principles, and this next part you're gonna tune out. So whoever has ears, whoever's actually open, whoever actually wants to find this, I want you to listen as closely as you can. Is everybody ready? Everybody ready? Here's a secret. You want this relationship? Here you go. You need to find someone who is more devoted to Jesus than they are to you. And you need to become someone who is more devoted to Jesus than you are to them. I'll say it again. You need to find someone. Someone who is more devoted to Jesus than they are to you, and you need to become someone who is more devoted to Jesus than you are to them. Now I want to show you exactly where I got this. Look at Ephesians chapter 5 again. Let me just hit some of these highlights for you. Verse 21. Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Verse 22. For wives, this means submit to your husbands as to the Lord Jesus. Verse 23. For a husband is the head of his wife just as Christ is the head of the church. Verse 25. For husbands, this means love your wives just as who? Christ loved the church. Next line. He, Jesus, gave up his life for her on the cross in the same way husbands ought to love their wives just as Christ cares for the church. Verse 32, this is a great mystery, but it is an illustration of the way Christ and the church are one. How many times has Paul mentioned Jesus in this passage? Over and over and over and over again. Why? What is he saying? What is he getting at? Why is he mentioning Jesus in every other phrase? When he's talking about romantic love, here's what he's getting at. If you're going to trust your life to someone, they better be like Jesus. If you're going to trust your life to someone, they better be like Jesus. Why? Because when Jesus gave everything on the cross, I had nothing to give him in return. When I had nothing, when I was bankrupt, Jesus gave me everything. Let's talk about this for a second. So before Sarah came along, here I was, just a sad, strange, lonely boy, you know. And I I listen, for real, like before I knew Jesus, I had nothing. I was insecure. I was honestly angry. I always had like these depressive anger tendencies. Um I had all these struggles in my life. I was a horrible representation of God. I feel like I probably steered more people away from God than I ever pointed to them. I wasn't interested in God. I didn't listen to God. I was constantly ignoring God. Like that was me. I had I literally was bankrupt. I had absolutely nothing whatsoever. And then out of nowhere, Jesus showed up in my life. I actually have Jesus. Here he is, right here. There he is. There's Jesus right there. And out of nowhere, Jesus showed up in my life. Now listen, listen, listen. Jesus gave me everything, expecting nothing back. Jesus loved me with all his heart, even though I ignored him with everything that I had. Jesus gave up heaven for me when I couldn't even give like five bucks to him. Jesus died for me on the cross, even though I did nothing but add more pain to his back. I did nothing but hurt him in return, slap him in the face. Jesus forgave me before I even asked for forgiveness, before I even knew I needed forgiveness. And Jesus was nailed to a cross. Like truly gave up his life. Like the ultimate act of love. Jesus was nailed to a cross before I even knew his name. When I didn't even acknowledge his existence. On the cross, Jesus poured out nothing but love. And Jesus is a lot richer than me. So when Jesus was on the cross, here's what he did. Everything that he had, all the love in the universe. Jesus poured out for me nothing but love for me when I could give him nothing in return. But here's what that meant. A couple years later, when my wife, Sarah, came along, say that's her. When Sarah came along, listen, I didn't need anything from her. I didn't need her to compliment me. I didn't need her to make me feel happy. I didn't need her to give me life direction. I did not need her to feel complete. When Sarah came along, I needed nothing from her because I had everything from Christ. By the way, God had already done the same thing in Sarah's life, so we didn't need anything from each other, which means our entire focus of our entire marriage has never been about what can the other person give me. We have everything, I have everything. We don't need each other. Our entire focus for our entire marriage has only been on I receive what Jesus has given me, and I just give to you. I love you out of the overflow of what Jesus Christ has already done in my life. Which means when one of us feels empty, when one of us feels like we have nothing to offer, listen, I don't get resentful, I don't get bitter, I don't get angry. All I need to do is reach in and give like half of a fraction of the love that Jesus showed me. I have an overflow of love within my life. Our relationship is actually focused on unconditional love because we are not dependent on the other person clutching up. But listen, this only works. Everybody listening? This only works if Jesus is actually more important to them than you are, and Jesus is actually more important to you than they are, which means, which means, listen, if he's asking for sex, I don't care that he goes to this church. He does not love Jesus more than you. If you have to remind her to take God seriously, I don't care that she understands you better than no one else does. She does not love Jesus more than she loves you. And I know, listen, listen, listen, I know that some of you are like sitting next to your special someone right now, and you're gonna get in the car after this, and they're gonna absolutely clutch up and give the speech of a lifetime about how they're the most reliable person in the world. And I know that's what's gonna happen. But deep down inside, you know, you know the truth. There's something off. This isn't what it should be. We are in the wrong kind of relationship with each other. Listen, someone who really knows Jesus doesn't just turn to God when they're on the rocks. Someone who really knows Jesus is walking with God every single day. And by the way, someone who really knows Jesus and who has really received unconditional love from Jesus, they're only attracted to someone who also really knows Jesus because they're drawn, because they've also received the same love. And what Sarah and I do is we run after Jesus together because that's the most important love to me. Everybody, listen, listen, man, listen, man. Can I tell you why everyone wants romantic love so bad? You ever think about that? Why is every single song on the radio about romantic love? I don't know what Bad Bunny was saying, but I am sure those songs were about love. You know, yeah, I'm sure. Why why is it? Why is it that every movie, no matter what the plot is about, whether it's aliens coming to earth, whatever, why is it that every movie, every TV show has this plot about romantic love? And why is it? Why is it for real? Why is it that all of us deep down inside feel like we will always be incomplete until we find that special person? Why do all of us feel like I'm not truly the right, you know, I don't have everything? Why do all of us feel like we will always be incomplete until we have that person? I will tell you why. Here's exactly why. Ready? Ready? When I go on a trip, when I'm gone for a week, when I'm gone for two weeks, and I'm away from my daughter, my baby daughter, she's one, who I love with all my heart. Do you know what I do when I'm away from her for a long time? Do you know what I do? I pull out my phone and I just start looking at pictures of her. Oh, pictures, pictures, videos. I hardly sleep, bro. Like I'm gone and I'm just like, uh, you know, and just looking at looking at photos of my baby. Why? Why, why, why? Because the photo is the closest thing I can get to to the relationship that I actually want. That photo, it it's it that it's an illustration. It's an image, it's a glimpse, it's just a piece of the real thing that I'm really long for, the real love that I actually want. But here's the thing, man. When I get home and I hold my daughter in my arms, I'm not looking at photos of her. I throw the phone out the window. I don't care, right? Because I have the thing that I actually want. The photo was just an illustration. It was just a glimpse, ready? What does Paul say to end his whole talk about romantic love? Verse 32 This marriage, this true love, it is a great mystery, but it is an illustration. It is a photo, it is a glimpse of what? Of the way Christ Jesus loves people. The way that Christ and the church are one. It is a glimpse, it's just a piece of how deeply Jesus loves you. The romantic love, you know, I used to think, you know, there's different kinds of love. You know, there's there's family love, then there's romantic love, and then there's the love God has. No, no, no. There's the love God has for you, and there's all these little like drops of what that kind of feels like. And romantic love is like the most tangible one. It's the closest you can get to to Jesus. So we crave it, crave it, crave it. But what we really, really want is we want the infinite love of God. Listen, listen, listen. The reason you long for a relationship so badly is because you really long for a relationship with Jesus. The reason that that's what's on your mind all the time. It's what you're running after, what you're thinking about constantly. All the apps are for. The reason you long for a relationship so badly is because you really long for a relationship with Jesus. Listen, listen. Jesus is the only one who will never leave you no matter what you do. Jesus is the only one who still wants you even when you can't perform. You can't keep up the act. Jesus is the only one who finds you beautiful even when no one else does. Jesus is the only one who will never hold a mistake against you. Jesus will never use you. Jesus will never turn on you. Jesus will never twist your words as a weapon against you. Jesus will never lose patience with you. Jesus will never give up on you. Jesus is the only one who you will never be more in love with him than he is with you. That will never happen. It's literally impossible. Jesus is the only one who would get up on a cross, stripped of all of his dignity, and bleed out in front of thousands of people, just to say, This is how much I love you. That is true love. That is the real love. And all of this, it's just a photo, it's just a glimpse. Of course we want it, because what we really want is him. But until you have him, you will always feel insecure. And you will always feel empty, and you will always feel like you're missing something. Even if you end up in the most perfect Hollywood relationship of all time, you will still feel lonely. Why? Because the thing you were built for, the the only love that's strong enough to actually fill up your heart is the love of the one who loves you the most. And that is Jesus Christ. That's what you're looking for. So will you focus on him? I told you, I I've 80% of the room probably can't hear what I'm saying right now. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear. Will you focus on him? Because here's the irony. If you lock into receiving his love, he actually teaches you how to love other people very well. And he actually teaches you how to function in the relationship that you long for anyway, but that relationship has to be second to the most important relationship, and that is Jesus Christ. I know there's a lot of questions, I know there's a lot of ground to cover, but this is the foundation. Just want to remind everybody, and just if you're interested in any of this, just keep coming back to this series. We're gonna be keep talking about these things. We're gonna do some QA's along the way. But what I really want to show everybody is what real love is like, and that therefore, as a result, we'll know how to function in it. Once again, thank you so much for listening to the Collective Podcast. If you have any questions about any of the things we talked about, feel free to shoot us an email. Our email is collective at graceohio.org. Those emails come straight to my inbox, and I'd love to have a conversation with you. And I'd love to meet you in person at Collective. We meet every single Thursday night at 7 o'clock at 754 Gent Road, Fairlawn, Ohio. And if you have any questions or need any more information, you can find that on our Instagram, GCM underscore collective. We would love to see you soon.