Becoming Bridge Builders

Is Racial Justice Possible in a Deeply Divided America?

June 30, 2022 Keith Haney Season 3 Episode 102
Becoming Bridge Builders
Is Racial Justice Possible in a Deeply Divided America?
Show Notes Transcript

My guest is Frank Ramos.  Frank is a lawyer, and the author of 20 books, and over 400 articles.  Frank has done over 200 coaching, leadership, self-improvement, and social media presentations.

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[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

well frank welcome to the show how are you doing today

[frank_ramos]:

i'm doing great thanks for having me

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

i'm so glad to have this conversation with you

[frank_ramos]:

i appreciate being here with you

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

so i'm going to give you an easy question or some say it's not easy question but i like their questions but give us the best advice you've ever received

[frank_ramos]:

you know the best advice is that no matter how big or dream is it's worth pursuing and just because someone hasn't done it or hasn't done it well it should stop you from pursuing it

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

i like that and who told you that or where you get it from

[frank_ramos]:

now i've had several people tell me

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

that i've heard a number of motivational speakers

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

and pope church mentioned that to me and now there's man size dreams and god size dreams and it's always worth sort of reach beyond your grasp

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

that's indeed i like that i may have to borrow that and then i'll say for the first time

[frank_ramos]:

but

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

i got this from frank and then about the

[frank_ramos]:

uh

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

third time it's like

[frank_ramos]:

uh

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

as keith always says

[frank_ramos]:

that's right

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh so tell us something about about yourself that most people don't know for the millions listening at home and for the people listening in norway

[frank_ramos]:

oh

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

which this podcast is trending in

[frank_ramos]:

you know i

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

do a lot of writing and

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

i've been trying to write a novel on and off for many years i had different attempts and i'm trying again and i've written most my writing non fiction primarily for professionals business related books self published or published through voluntary bar association s i'm a lawyer here in miami but i've always wanted to write fitton and so on if i'll make attempts at it and try and again let's see what happens this time

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

you know i've tried that

[frank_ramos]:

oh

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

too and my biggest struggle has been developing the characters

[frank_ramos]:

that's true

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

that is very true

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

i love the idea

[frank_ramos]:

i

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

of fixing

[frank_ramos]:

have

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

yeah

[frank_ramos]:

right you would think it would be

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

yeah

[frank_ramos]:

easier

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

right because there's no form

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

or you know you're just kind of making it all up for having to research something or it's actually harder at least it's harder for me so i haven't quite accomplished what i've been seeking but helpfully

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

yeah

[frank_ramos]:

get the ball roll it more in the coming weeks and months ahead

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

now you have to since you broke that you broke that news here on the podcast people will be expecting

[frank_ramos]:

that's right

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

the frank ramos fiction novel

[frank_ramos]:

that's right now now i'm committed

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

now you commit it or you should be

[frank_ramos]:

like the would want that

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

breakfast analogy regarding eggs and baked and

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

the chickens are trying but the pigs are committed that that's me now

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

there you go so i'm always kind of curious for people

[frank_ramos]:

oh

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

especially like yourself who were some major

[frank_ramos]:

yeah

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

influences in your life

[frank_ramos]:

you know i spent a lot of time growing up reading a lot books that you sort of put in the self help or motivational category

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

i'm fifty and i grew up in seventies and eighties and read books like zigler

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

and robins is just coming up around that time

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

and now there are you know in the old books you know how to make friends and influence people

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

carnegy and so i read a lot of books in that space and borrowed a lot of advice from those people so these are people i never met you know never heard them alive or spoke with them but i read of frames and a lot of the advice was very similar you ricky and i've read tons of books on self help and motivation and inspiration really it all comes down to discipline over time it's people can motivate you but it only lasts so long and at the end of the day you have to have a dream you have to have a goal you have to write down that goal have a plan to achieve it and get to work it i mean you have to work the goal each and every day and pursue it each and every day and i think that's where most people would just kind of fall short lot of people stick their plans in the wrong file and just never look at it again and looking at all those folks who write and speak in that area you know a lot of them talk about strategic plan don't know if they use that phrase but they really talk about having a plan at p and work a plan and so if our looking at mentors you know again these are people actually even know but you know a lot of the folks in that space have been writing that space for decades now have been very influential terms of how i see and pursue my life goals

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

i like that that's interesting you know i work a lot with organization especially churches

[frank_ramos]:

m

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

and i'll ask them sometime you

[frank_ramos]:

m

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

know what's your mission statement and the mission statement is

[frank_ramos]:

right

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

something they did years ago and they put a file box and it's in the closet and they don't use it like well if you don't actually use the missis tape is really your mission so you're right its execution

[frank_ramos]:

that's fair yes yeah it's i help organizations and law firms and trade associations with trended planning and i'm surprised how some organizations don't even have a mission statement others haven't looked at it quite some time and if you don't know your why or what you're about then you're just kind of going through the motions and you may somehow

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

a

[frank_ramos]:

intuitively or inherently know what your i is but it's good to actually have down and

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

thought through it and remancfomtime to time

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

it was great so i loved having you on beaus i did some research on you in preparation for our talk

[frank_ramos]:

oh

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

together and i noticed that one of the things that seems to be a theme of or blog that i saw your website was you love to mentor people especially you met to a lot of lawyers especially young lawyers so what are some of the challenges that young lawyer as young professionals are dealing with today

[frank_ramos]:

i think the biggest thing an professional s across whatever sector they're in

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

is that they're not really sure what their long term plan is now they many of them sort of fall into

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

a career or profession or a job some think they know why they're

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

doing it but many don't and a

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

lot of them have certain idealized version and whatever profession they're pursuing and quickly realize that's not how it is at all a bit discuraging and so what i try to do is i help yan individuals try to define for themselves their purpose and the way i define a purpose is where your talents and your dreams and your passions intersect if you're sort of a diagram just write down all your talents and then write down all your dreams and then write down all your passions and sort of so were they intersected and that's gently where your purpose is you know i think we all have ese talents that were imbewed with we all have these dreams that are constant coming into our consciousness and we all have in very passionate out and i think there's generally almost always ability to use that in your career and should really sort of define what you do and if not at least define how you do it and so i tried to help people make that realization and i think people are much happier and much more joyful and have a much better sense of self and generally can combat things like depression than a little bit better if they are doing and are at the place where they're supposed to be and having you know lived five decades in this earth now i have a sense of you know i made my share mistakes and a lot of times and realize that you know we all lose out and out a lot of time by just playing it safe and not doing doing things for other people or doing things for material goods or doing things as i we're supposed to be doing versus really pursuing our own interests and kind of have this perception of you that people are constantly watching us and kind of judging

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

us and quite find hose people don't have the time or the energy that we just need

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

yeah

[frank_ramos]:

to live lives and you know anybody who actually has a time to worry about what i'm doing is not someone i should be worrying about

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

so you're a lawyer in miami area and i now it's a very diverse area in miami um and i'm assuming you guys also dealt with some of the attentions that were happening to and you're probably struggling with some of the changes to justice in the area so as as a lawyer i'm always curious um what are some of the challenges you've had you've faced as a lawyer with all the social justice change in discussion late especially post george floyd how is that impacted what you do or people you work with do

[frank_ramos]:

that's a great question i think what happened after the george floyd incident which tragic there was finally a real conversation that had been taking place that people in corporate america and law firms just weren't having on they had it for a while i think we're kind of unfortunately sort of sliding back

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

in not having it anymore

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

but i hope

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

that it opened certain doors and the dam sort of burst open and now conversations that people thought were good have and polite company are suddenly important conversations we're all having and i think what that would implicating what that generator was a lot of people now felt okay to have those conversations you know often conversations were being had by you know certainly in ledofield by diverse lawyers with diverse lawyers but not with sort of general population now with clients and not putting themselves out there in social media a lot of firms had these policies where you know they really kind of crack them for that about you know what opinions you've been pressed in social media so as not to upset certain clients specially large corporate clients and i think that kind of changed and so you had a lot more people expressing their views to the general population and firms either agreeing with it or at least not opposing it you know not sure if some of them still like we're doing that or not but discussions are being had there a more frequently there being had over longer periods of time and i think there's a greater understanding i think each of us have our own stories to tell and i think for the most part what happened there is that a lot of again i'm talking of a lawyer i think a lot of anglo lawyers are starting to understand that the experiences in life background of a lot of divers lords or american or spanish or even asian very different than theirs and you know they had experiences you know for them the police wasn't somebody made them feel safe they often were pigeon hole or pit cast or you know they succeeded a lot of angelo's data was sort of firm matching the play and they weren't giving them the credit and so all that was sort of under the surface and that all kind of came bubbling up and it had to be addressed now has it been fully addressed now are we redressing a bit again we sort of falling back to old pattern sure but i think that was such a stark and tragic incident that it really push things to the surface that needed to be addressed

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

you have had a chance to actually interview some police about the george for thing and you're the first lawyer i've talked posted that issue and i'm kind of wondering as we as we tried to move forward as as a nation and the society how do we do that and i like what you had to say about you know people have started to at least have the conversation and i do wonder how

[frank_ramos]:

right

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

we begin to keep that conversation going

[frank_ramos]:

you know it's when that came up there were a couple of shows that i watched and i know a kind of a weird segued there were two shows there was watchman that was appeared on h b um and for those people weren't familiar the watchman series was sort of take off of the watchman graphic novel that was least in the eighties by a author by name allen more and they turned a graphic novel where it kind of defined how we viewed super heroes to one that was very much based on race and really superb job anybody has h b are going to have access to watch to watch washington series thinks about ten twelve episodes it's a brilliant series and end that episode that series brought to the forefront a lot about the pulsommassacure no one really like a lot of people in an low community weren't even aware of and it started an interesting conversation and i think that actually was released i forget whether i was released before at the same time the george floyd incident happened and then there was also another series also an h b called love craft country which was very much about race and it was about it was sort of science fitting poor serious but again very much born given race and talked about

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

sunset cities and a lot of these issues that a most an blows

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

especially younger ones had no idea even in this big we've kind of

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

washed all that you know we kind of put that behind us and it took two fictional t series to kind of put this back into

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

yeah

[frank_ramos]:

the public conversation along with obviously all the issues george floyd and the number of other dividuals that were attacked physically by the police for the last few years so so it's funny how sometimes pop culture um you know very intentionally brings things to our tention and it starts conversations and you know and i think a lot of it has to do with education sixteen nineteen project a lot of these other things it's important to understand that our country great in many respects but not so great an others and there's nothing wrong with that i mean i think as individuals were all imperfect there's certainly depravity of man and so you know to sort of point out

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

the bad doesn't mean that we were purposely ignoring the good and vice versa and i think

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

h

[frank_ramos]:

these conversations are important i think it's uh yeah it's this idea that there was some better time in the past is a bit of a myth remember one time this is years ago was a sunday school and we were having some conversation in en know how this came up and it was a largely hand low group mostly elderly men and women and someone mentioned you know they wanted to go back to the times that meant and said well what are we and as like well you know the nineteen fifties like all right nineteen fifties alright well let's think about nineteen fifties mississippi okay and you're black suddenly you really want to go back there

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

yeah

[frank_ramos]:

and so there is this lack of understanding

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

you know it's i think everybody

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

well i guess most everybody wants to have a certain sense of safety and definition of who they are what they want to be but

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

ignores all this history and i think a lot of the tension comes up with the fact that people aren't even having the conversation i think people were to say yeah we had this period of time where r tragic period or thing from slavery to jim crow to segregation to separate but equal you know and that really wasn't that long ago and even until today we have people who are racially profiled and microgressions and still not as serious or significant but you know it's just still pretty important it effects lives very seriously um and you have all these dog whistles all over the place and joe you know and even happen that longer thou you know you have charlottesville you have all these other incidents and just like wow just it's always like right there under the surface and nobody wants to talk about it and and the idea that all we do is talk about it isn't true becos no one wants to really listen sometimes so i don't go my so box but i think

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

what's happened is that more people are having that conversation you know you're an there's some symbolic things like removing silver war statutes and you know trying to teach this but then you have you know the the people fighting back and saying you know critical race theory should be taught and it's not even being taught just it's a weird conversation and it's very volatile and it feels sometimes we're a bit of a tinder box but to ignore it and just kind of brush it under the carpet really isn't a good way of doing it either

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

yeah a couple of thing you said i want

[frank_ramos]:

m

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

to kind of touch down because

[frank_ramos]:

oh

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

i've had this talk

[frank_ramos]:

yeah

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

with people to say going back to the good old days

[frank_ramos]:

yes

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

i have to remind people like you just said you know the good old days for you may not be the good old days with somebody else so how do you remember

[frank_ramos]:

oh

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

and acknowledge that and i like what you said to that you can you can in america's greatness and i also deal with the fact that america has flaws and those

[frank_ramos]:

right

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

both of those things can be true at the same

[frank_ramos]:

oh

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

time and they have to be because it's true of us

[frank_ramos]:

oh

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

we have some wonderful qualities as human beings we some areas we need to work on this human beings to think our nation is any less than we are would be kind of naive

[frank_ramos]:

and i think you know um every bright figure

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

i

[frank_ramos]:

has had their failings and you know just um and we've never one of us want to be defined by the worst thing we've

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

ever done um and you know it's same both with our country but obviously it's all part of it you know that's all part of it and idea that somehow we can elevate one part above the other whether it's good or the bad part isn't helpful either obviously need to have both conversations both at the celebrate but you also have to admonish you have to brace but you also have to try to fix ter leans on the past and it's difficult bees everybody has this world view social view that there's sort of limited resources and so i x person gets more i get less and trying to create system where everybody gets more and of ships rise with the rising tide is really the best approach and i think for so long politics has been politics of fear um and fear is a reatmotivator i mean fear we see that social media would see that in other context that like people you know it sort of like the sorptilian brain thing we have where if we can just scare somebody we're get them to do something unfortunately that's sort of controlled are public conversation too much as supposed to trying to find ways where we can find common ground and while we address our differences and appreciate you shortcomings we also find ways of working together of things

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

you also mentioned a critical race theory and it's funny because i've had this talk with a lot of people about critical race theory and my thought is

[frank_ramos]:

yeah

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

yes it's started in the school of law and it is trying to figure out a way to deal with inequities but don't get caught up so much in the language of critical race theory but look at what critical race theory is identifying

[frank_ramos]:

yeah

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

as possible problems and areas to improve i tell the church be careful not to adapt crit race theories profits is theology and it's you know disciples but maybe out of that there is some things that identifies that really due be addressed like you talk about somebody about red lining there you was where there was

[frank_ramos]:

right

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

red lining and maybe something like critical race to may identify those areas where housing was a problem so how do you deal with the issues that it presents versus accepting all things at it no it kind of supports behind it

[frank_ramos]:

right right and yeah i mean historically we lived in a races country i mean there's really no

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

other way of saying that and i think that kind of gets

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

certain people's backs up but

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

it's true and there's really come up with a hundred

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

and one

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

samples on

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

yeah

[frank_ramos]:

how that works and

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

come to go any further than how

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

we fund schools and how it's based on property tax

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

and property issues have generally been as you mentioned red line and so you have lower property taxes and lower income areas which create or school in which provide fewer opportunities and you just you know just spin it out and it's kind of obvious

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

there's been studies about strouling and how important integration has been for things like school busting like people have studied this at nausium and they found out that for diverse students the best thing ever happened to them was bust which a lot of people hate because it's like the that you're moving people wants to wild another and you're forcing them to go to a school that that they're not part of they don't belong to but studies are clear i mean it's just people do better and better schools and america students that were placed in predominantly white schools ultimately did better um and you know just how it is you know should be any surprise and i don't know why anybody would find a shock and you have a school that has more resources or art

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

do better they're have more we are better colleges or get better careers and you know just perpetuate from one generation to the next and so we're still trying to deal with the sins of our fathers and people just want to move on and there has to be a balance obviously you know posing reparations per but there has to be a balance in terms of how we address these issues and there should be some middle brown then most reasonable people should be able to agree on and i'm hoping we're moving in the right direction i hope we're at least having the right conversations this time will tell

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

i think the hard part what you just said was probably the biggest issue is that we have to do with the fact that our country has dark past and how do we deal with that and still because people like the term races and i understand that that term seems inflammatory there are things that have happened in our past that we have never addressed so how do we deal with that people jus were ike let me just move on i don't want to talk about those things that wasn't me that was my ancestress but the issues are still impacting those communities so how do you deal with the issues that are still impact in those communities

[frank_ramos]:

i don't know to answer for that and i don't think those issues are still too far in the rear view there was a us center of who it was who suggested somehow the loving decision which ended the separation of races from marriages was somehow wrongly decided

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

that was a stateisship which is all kind of scary

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

yeah

[frank_ramos]:

and so and of course he would say in his defense he was

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

just you know kind of taking the intotherlel includers and the under current circumstances no state would allow that i'm not quite sure about

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

ah

[frank_ramos]:

a position on that but and so there's these race bating issues that constantly

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

come to the forefront and you have all these provocators who have their dog whistles and say certain things and the kind of back off once they're confronted by it but you know there's a following for that which is a little scary know there are people

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

in their chat rooms and their social media platforms at you know freely use racial epithets and have some view that the soul ship rise again and they're there and they're there ad they're out there and so that's little challenging and surprising and their politicians are happy to feed into that anger and and really racismfoanother word to get those books so yeah it's really challenging and things have gotten better inserrespect on things have not and others and i don't really give any answer to that i can't really tell you what we should be doing other than talking more and having more groups whether they're on zoom or uh town hall is whatever it is and getting people together and having like real conversation book but the thing is it's become so polarized that it's really hard to have a conversation especially if everybody is watching

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

or seeing and reading the same type of ah you know i think there was quite a time where you know we all got our news evening news and this was

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

ah

[frank_ramos]:

many years ago before everything was so polarized with all the news the news was just new news would just literally

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

ah yeah

[frank_ramos]:

just tell what was happening you didn't have like talking heads everywhere and now everybody has an opinion and everybody he slants left to write everybody sort of plays along with whoever they agree with and so you get two people have a conversation and they can't even agree in the same terminology or you know how they want to discuss things because they're just the way they speak and the top which they address and what they consider news worthy its polar opposite

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

yeah i started this podcast with the idea of having opposing voices on and have a conversation because we don't get that very often and it's been interesting because i think i've learned a lot and i hope my guests have learned a lot from is having a conversation and i get pretty positive feedback from the audience going i like the fact that it's a

[frank_ramos]:

so

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

a safe form to have difficult conversations

[frank_ramos]:

right right

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

so i tried to model that used to be the news but it's not any more

[frank_ramos]:

no it's not at all

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

yeah i think they really changed in terms of just having a conversation like like when i talk to somebody who has a different view than me i have to first figure out where they're coming from and where they're edging their new source and what their talking points are try to get past that

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

and that's

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

yeah

[frank_ramos]:

true from whatever wherever they are on the spectrum because it's we just don't appreciate in the dot any more it's really unusual

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

my phone is kind of pfunny i usually have both sides of the new spectrum on my phone so in the morning my phone is just confused do i so i send him this algorithm or this algorithm of news so get sometimes the same story from two different points of view and and somewhere the truth is in the middle and so it's kind of fun they

[frank_ramos]:

right

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

not have only one echo chamber you're listening to in the morning

[frank_ramos]:

absolutely had

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

but my phone

[frank_ramos]:

it

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

doesn't really like

[frank_ramos]:

m

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

that so is really fascinating

[frank_ramos]:

yeah

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m so frank what are you working on that you're excited about

[frank_ramos]:

you know i really no other than my work that i do i worked largely on civil matters for personally our products and liability work come a work i really enjoy again doing a lot of the mentoring i have a website called miami mentor dot com which references earlier i keep my books and some training video and my my tadlines my purpose is your purpose where i help people try to define pursue their lives purpose really enjoy it i speak with a lot of professionals primarily lawyers either coffee or together with the virtually or talk over the phone and most days i'll speak to one or two and lawyers for a few minutes trying to help them figure things out than have all the answers i think most people know what they want to do they just need someone to talk it through with them and say kind of provide uh sort of place where they can kind of be a sounding board and have to think through what they want consolation so that's where i really enjoy doing i've been speaking a lot lately and we're finally i think hopefully tail end of covid period as been over two years now and i think a lot of us never went back to live events and so a lot of my speaking is moving from virtual platforms zoom or teams to something more in person times couple of weeks to speak a few issues and i really just enjoy getting out there and talking to people and really very curious by nature and learning what motivates people and what gets them up and how they do things and how they elpishstens and learn as much from them as i hope they learn from me so that's what really kind of gets me going every day

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

that's great so when the final gabble comes down on your life what do you want your legacy to be

[frank_ramos]:

you know i hope despite whatever mistakes i made

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

and the shortcomings i had i hope

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

people think that i was able to actually

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

yeah

[frank_ramos]:

add some vat to their lives

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

yeah

[frank_ramos]:

and i don't know how really define that but i kind of want to leave it all in the field you know i don't really want to create you know late see where i just had a lot of stuff i tried to give away my time for i give way my resources you know denzil washington often says that you never see or you'll never see hurst followed by you all you know it's

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

yeah

[frank_ramos]:

like just can't take it with you and so so to try to accumulate a lot of things accumulate um know whether it's money or items or goods or houses or cars i don't know if that's particularly valuable it's kind of vanity so i tried to i backed as much as possible and try to help as much as possible i think it's actually quite selfish because it really feels pretty good to actually help other people you know it's it's very life affirming for people you know for your listeners who suffer from depression or anxiety depression is very insular you know i suffered from it for years and once you get outside of yourself and you find ways to help others and that focus yourself focus on others needs you actually do much better for yourself so there's a certain selfishness in the selflessness

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

that's great anything i haven't asked you that that you want to cover

[frank_ramos]:

i think we covered it all it's been quite a wide

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

yeah

[frank_ramos]:

range discussion and i think again now that

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

we're moving beyond the pandemic i think we'll have to appreciate that we've developed and establish certain habits you know habit about a month of creating we've been in this world for about two years so we've all become more accustomed to doing things remotely working from homes

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

become more common communicating on our

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

yeah

[frank_ramos]:

phones has become more common social medias become more common because we weren't actually seeing each other spending more tie on facebook and linked in and instagram and twitter and all these other things and and wherever go back to the way things

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

yeah

[frank_ramos]:

work completely we're goin start socializing more we're

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

gonna spend more time with each other but we've just been in this world way too long you know and creatures have happened and we're just have to learn how to communicate better i think we've all learned

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh

[frank_ramos]:

to communicate more electronically more briefly which also can create certain problems communication differences and misunderstandings and we have to kind of work through that but i think more and more of us are communicate through text messages and instant messages and just pop ups that come up on a screen and watching thirty tik tok videos and we were two years ago and especially with younger generations and so it's important to understand and really take some time to appreciate how we're communicating how that's changed what the effects of those changes are what they will continue to be and learn from that

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

great so tell me what i can find you on social media again in your website one more time

[frank_ramos]:

my website is miami mentor dot com and i'm pretty active on linked in about sixty two thousand followers there post daily generally general advice

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

m

[frank_ramos]:

for lawyers but i would hope that some of the advice transcends and goes to other professionals is where well i've been posting their daily to bout cars now

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

ye

[frank_ramos]:

um and you know and for anybody who's out there who wants to have a voice in the platform you find one that speaks to you it could be linked in it could be facebook it could be in stagram could be tiktok know whatever you think it is think about your audiences and different each of these forms have different types of audiences and then just stick with it you stick with it for a while and you find that you're gonna develop a community and develop tribe yeah develop a following and brand and way of sharing your thoughts and your value with others and it will really pay off de evidence the launcher

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

well frank i really enjoyed this kind with thanks so much for being pawned here and

[frank_ramos]:

yeah

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

look forward to having more conversation with you

[frank_ramos]:

likewise thanks so much for having me

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh oh

[frank_ramos]:

oh

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:

oh